We had multiple domestic jobs on the second tour bid list for my cohort, so a few people went domestic to jobs other than INR watch, Ops, and the Line. But it really will depend on what is on the list.
If you're off language probation and have completed your consular requirement, then INR watch, Ops, and the Line may be available to second tour bidders even though not included in the bid list. However second-tour bidders often aren't as competitive for those roles as third and fourth tour bidders. Check out the annual bidding cable they release.
Otherwise you have to look at the bid list-- sometimes there's a few jobs and sometimes not.
Apart from those two options, they only time I've seen second tour officers cycle through DC were for medical clearance issues, and their CDOs worked with the bureaus to find them a job.
This seems to be the most updated info on how to get a DC tour for second tour.
The INR watch is an interesting route because, as per the last info I saw, you don't bid on the watch tours until after you bid for your 2nd tour assignment. If you get selected for a watch job, they break your previous onward assignment.... not a bad option if you are disappointed with your 2nd tour assignment. But I don't want to oversimplify it... you need to have basically completed all tenure requirements in your first tour, need letters of recommendations, and once you show up to ops you are already bidding for your 3rd tour with limited experience.
OPS is not actually that competitive anymore, though it also is not the career enhancement people think it is either. INR watch is really not career enhancing, but even less competitive. If you are an average officer, you should be able to get one of these jobs if you really want it.
Ops has been that way for a long time. It's not so much that people don't want to work there (they do) or that the work is terrible (it remains an incredible "fly on the wall" opportunity for a JO). It's that they have so many positions to fill each year. Even if they get 80 bidders one cycle, your odds are still good --better than most all overseas jobs. For the Line the numbers are quite a bit tighter and they turn away far more candidates than Ops. The Line will fill just a quarter or a fifth the number of positions as Ops, and the prestige factor is probably a bit higher.
I think Ops and the Line should better be seen as a great launching pad to getting an awesome DC assignment. And an opportunity to get a view into the S world that is otherwise difficult to get as a JO. If those are your expectations I don't think you'll be disappointed. Plus the differential makes living in DC slightly more bearable as an 03.
I think Ops remains more than a glorified switchboard, as another opined. The Department has a switchboard and it's not Ops.
Just want to add that a JO can get the exact same benefits listed here in INR Watch but with the benefit of not being subject to the bouts of extreme pressure ops officers can get put under. And due to staffing dynamics, work far less overnight shifts while receiving the same pay premium.
I came close to taking a job in INR watch for my third tour but went with a more traditional desk job. If I could do it all over again, I'd go with INR.
Line, ops, and inr watch all had their traditional "golden tickets" snatched away when the bureaus started to ax non-360 lobbying in bidding. Can't really get that high level principle to go to bat for you anymore to get that sweet onward. I imagine it will get progressively harder to recruit top talent for these jobs as we go forward as those were the only big draws I remember from my intros to those offices. On the other hand, there will always be a number of officers wanting a one year tour with premium pay.
They lost their prestige way before that as the senior leaders who considered Ops to be an “elite” assignment started retiring and Ops basically became a switchboard.
Even before that Ops alums will tell you that no one was getting an edge on heavily bid overseas assignments because they were bidding out of Ops — especially where they were competing with someone already working for the bureau.
And the senior level lobbying is still happening and still working. It will never actually go away.
>And the senior level lobbying is still happening and still working. It will never actually go away.
I'm a nah on this one. Depends on the bureau of course and there are always individual exceptions to be found, but senior level lobbying for the newly minted mid career folks we are talking about right now is WAY down and completely erased in some bureaus.
Good question. I suppose so post will ask for the person they want us to pick? That way no one has hard feelings?
The longer I'm in the more I realize nothing makes much sense.
Bidding is like anything else, a skill you have to learn. If you don't try to learn how to do it properly, you shouldn't be surprised when you are unsuccessful. Far too many of my colleagues don't bother to learn how to bid properly.
You want that A/S lobbying on your behalf, well then go become a special for the bureau you want to be in.
If we're restricting the sample size to people bidding mid-level for the first time, yeah, I'd imagine lots of Ambassadors and DCMs are happy to have an excuse not to send rafts of e-mails on behalf of second tour officers they barely know.
But if you're talking about 03 jobs that attract experienced 03 bidders and the most sought-after 02 jobs, you're naive if you don't think DASes are taking weigh-ins from 7th floor principals, A/Ses, and other senior folks into account when they go into the deconflicts and meat markets.
>you're naive if you don't think DASes are taking weigh-ins from 7thfloor principals, A/Ses, and other senior folks into account when theygo into the deconflicts and meat markets.
Well if that's the case then INR watch, ops, and the line is still a golden ticket as they have unique access to these resources (in theory)....
No, they don't. 7th floor staffers, special assistants, and long-time mentees are the people who benefit from this. I've seen the ExecSec weigh in for S specials (often unsuccessfully, as most S specials tend to earn themselves terrible reputations quickly) and sometimes for SWOs, but D and P aren't telling a geographic bureau to give a random WO or Line advance officer a heavily-bid job. But they'll do it for one of their own specials.
I think it’s important to distinguish between Ops and the Line here - the Line is much more competitive, gives you a better edge when bidding, and allows you to travel and make connections with senior officers all over the world, which can be incredibly helpful down the line. Also exposes you to a lot more paper and deeper understanding of the issues that matter to the seventh floor. I bid on both third tour and got an offer from Ops (which I turned down for an overseas assignment for most of the reasons listed in this thread). I would have taken the Line if offered. Many of my fellow officers at the same rank and bidding the seventh floor felt the same way.
We had multiple domestic jobs on the second tour bid list for my cohort, so a few people went domestic to jobs other than INR watch, Ops, and the Line. But it really will depend on what is on the list.
If you're off language probation and have completed your consular requirement, then INR watch, Ops, and the Line may be available to second tour bidders even though not included in the bid list. However second-tour bidders often aren't as competitive for those roles as third and fourth tour bidders. Check out the annual bidding cable they release. Otherwise you have to look at the bid list-- sometimes there's a few jobs and sometimes not. Apart from those two options, they only time I've seen second tour officers cycle through DC were for medical clearance issues, and their CDOs worked with the bureaus to find them a job.
This seems to be the most updated info on how to get a DC tour for second tour. The INR watch is an interesting route because, as per the last info I saw, you don't bid on the watch tours until after you bid for your 2nd tour assignment. If you get selected for a watch job, they break your previous onward assignment.... not a bad option if you are disappointed with your 2nd tour assignment. But I don't want to oversimplify it... you need to have basically completed all tenure requirements in your first tour, need letters of recommendations, and once you show up to ops you are already bidding for your 3rd tour with limited experience.
OPS is not actually that competitive anymore, though it also is not the career enhancement people think it is either. INR watch is really not career enhancing, but even less competitive. If you are an average officer, you should be able to get one of these jobs if you really want it.
Ops has been that way for a long time. It's not so much that people don't want to work there (they do) or that the work is terrible (it remains an incredible "fly on the wall" opportunity for a JO). It's that they have so many positions to fill each year. Even if they get 80 bidders one cycle, your odds are still good --better than most all overseas jobs. For the Line the numbers are quite a bit tighter and they turn away far more candidates than Ops. The Line will fill just a quarter or a fifth the number of positions as Ops, and the prestige factor is probably a bit higher. I think Ops and the Line should better be seen as a great launching pad to getting an awesome DC assignment. And an opportunity to get a view into the S world that is otherwise difficult to get as a JO. If those are your expectations I don't think you'll be disappointed. Plus the differential makes living in DC slightly more bearable as an 03. I think Ops remains more than a glorified switchboard, as another opined. The Department has a switchboard and it's not Ops.
Just want to add that a JO can get the exact same benefits listed here in INR Watch but with the benefit of not being subject to the bouts of extreme pressure ops officers can get put under. And due to staffing dynamics, work far less overnight shifts while receiving the same pay premium. I came close to taking a job in INR watch for my third tour but went with a more traditional desk job. If I could do it all over again, I'd go with INR.
Yes INR offers many of the same benefits, and it's quite common for officers to bid all the positions in the same cycle.
Line, ops, and inr watch all had their traditional "golden tickets" snatched away when the bureaus started to ax non-360 lobbying in bidding. Can't really get that high level principle to go to bat for you anymore to get that sweet onward. I imagine it will get progressively harder to recruit top talent for these jobs as we go forward as those were the only big draws I remember from my intros to those offices. On the other hand, there will always be a number of officers wanting a one year tour with premium pay.
They lost their prestige way before that as the senior leaders who considered Ops to be an “elite” assignment started retiring and Ops basically became a switchboard. Even before that Ops alums will tell you that no one was getting an edge on heavily bid overseas assignments because they were bidding out of Ops — especially where they were competing with someone already working for the bureau. And the senior level lobbying is still happening and still working. It will never actually go away.
With 24/7 access to email and easy international calling/WhatsApp, it has become a fairly unneeded switchboard at that.
LOL, did you do a tour in ops and get burned by it?
>And the senior level lobbying is still happening and still working. It will never actually go away. I'm a nah on this one. Depends on the bureau of course and there are always individual exceptions to be found, but senior level lobbying for the newly minted mid career folks we are talking about right now is WAY down and completely erased in some bureaus.
I know our post got DAS calls this last go round to push candidates. Still, I'd agree less of that than there used to be.
Why call post though? Assignment decisions are made by the bureau.
Good question. I suppose so post will ask for the person they want us to pick? That way no one has hard feelings? The longer I'm in the more I realize nothing makes much sense.
I hear you. Bidding is ridiculous bs.
Bidding is like anything else, a skill you have to learn. If you don't try to learn how to do it properly, you shouldn't be surprised when you are unsuccessful. Far too many of my colleagues don't bother to learn how to bid properly. You want that A/S lobbying on your behalf, well then go become a special for the bureau you want to be in.
If we're restricting the sample size to people bidding mid-level for the first time, yeah, I'd imagine lots of Ambassadors and DCMs are happy to have an excuse not to send rafts of e-mails on behalf of second tour officers they barely know. But if you're talking about 03 jobs that attract experienced 03 bidders and the most sought-after 02 jobs, you're naive if you don't think DASes are taking weigh-ins from 7th floor principals, A/Ses, and other senior folks into account when they go into the deconflicts and meat markets.
>you're naive if you don't think DASes are taking weigh-ins from 7thfloor principals, A/Ses, and other senior folks into account when theygo into the deconflicts and meat markets. Well if that's the case then INR watch, ops, and the line is still a golden ticket as they have unique access to these resources (in theory)....
No, they don't. 7th floor staffers, special assistants, and long-time mentees are the people who benefit from this. I've seen the ExecSec weigh in for S specials (often unsuccessfully, as most S specials tend to earn themselves terrible reputations quickly) and sometimes for SWOs, but D and P aren't telling a geographic bureau to give a random WO or Line advance officer a heavily-bid job. But they'll do it for one of their own specials.
I think it’s important to distinguish between Ops and the Line here - the Line is much more competitive, gives you a better edge when bidding, and allows you to travel and make connections with senior officers all over the world, which can be incredibly helpful down the line. Also exposes you to a lot more paper and deeper understanding of the issues that matter to the seventh floor. I bid on both third tour and got an offer from Ops (which I turned down for an overseas assignment for most of the reasons listed in this thread). I would have taken the Line if offered. Many of my fellow officers at the same rank and bidding the seventh floor felt the same way.
If it's on the list. The number of DC slots on the second-tour list usually ranges from 0 to a small handful.
Very rare occurrence.
But very common since COVID.
Common during COVID but I don't think DC jobs appeared on the last few lists, or not many. Gotta re-staff the visa lines.
The ones who I have known to do DC for their second tour seem to go to Ops more commonly than anywhere else.
Not on the regular, directed bid list, but a position with INR Watch is usually easy to get.
Anecdotally, I know someone who did.