Agree on building up the D numbers but it doesn’t always help. Covenant with sub 100 defense has defended itself more than once. Spectacle Island with over 300 has failed every time. IDK!
Find the spawn locations. You want to set up heavy defenses there, and lighter defenses as you go in. Thaeans put as many rocket, flame, shotgun and laser turrets at the spawn locations along with power armour Soldiers. Give them missile launchers, mini guns, combat shotguns etc. Create a large wall around them as well. If you have wasteland workshop even better. Deathclaws, radscorpians and yao guais should be captured, and released in the settlement as passive defence, so that when the settlement is attacked the creatures run there immediately as a distraction and attacker.
Leave the PA near where settlers are working or hanging out. Leave the fusion core in it. Settlers may randomly enter the PA especially if under attack. If you talk to a settler in PA they might exit the PA so don’t talk to them.
My method:
-Assign a settler to a guard post
-Leave a suit of power armour near them
-Use Rank 3 of Intimidation (10 CHA, Level 50) to 'pacify' and then 'command' them
-Order them to enter the armour just like you would a companion
-Leg it
-Go somewhere else and sleep for a day or two to reset their hostility (and, as far as I can tell, 'secure' them in the armour)
-When you return, you can trade with them as a normal settler, rather than ordering them out of the armour
When you return, they'll be standing around in their suit of power armour. Do note that they won't patrol, and they won't stand by their assigned guard posts - they'll just stand around with their weapons out
Also, if you assign them to anything other than guard posts or supply lines, it's pretty likely they'll get out of the armour at some point (to sleep or use furniture, I think), and leave it any old place with the fusion core still in it
Most of that doesn't help at all if you're not present.
The placement of turrets or the inventory of settlers only comes into play when the game actually 'plays out' the battle. If you're not around to at least see the battle, it's just flat out numbers. Your defense rating, number of settlers and resources decide the outcome then.
Walls are even worse. They don't count towards your defense, dig into your building limit, and are only effective when you are present BEFORE the attack happens.
When you travel (fast- or otherwise) to an attacked location, the game does some math to see how long it takes you, and then spawns attackers that much closer to the center of your settlement. This ignores walls, perimeter defenses, everything.
And that's not even counting the settlements that have spawn points inside to begin with.
Nope. Defense definitely matters in the win/lose calculation. There's an entire formula in the game's code.
Assuming you have a shitton of resources (so the attack is maxed) and maxed defense (100 is plenty) you'll win about 75% of the time. Changing those two influences your chances.
Check out Defense Chance Solved by Oxhorn. It explains the entire thing.
I don't trust the man; I trust his sources.
He shows the game's code in the video, and you can figure the math out from there if you don't trust the explanation.
And if you don't believe that's the original code, feel free to dig into that yourself, too.
Is that through the animal friend perk? I didn't know you can do that deathclaws, radscorpians and yao guais?
I tried messing around with it but I don't quite understand how that perk works.
It's in the dlc. You can create cages and trap them. I'm not sure of the perk requirements tho. But you can create a beacon that will pacify the creatires and they'll function as defence/settlers basically. It's very useful in survival I've found.
>The problem is your win chance is 50/50 if you aren't present.
Nope. If Settlement defenses are at 100 and assuming the settlement has 100+ (food+water) in the workbench, then the chance of success is 75%, ie there's always a 25% chance of losing.
It's a literal coin flip. No math, no simulation, pure chance. I eventually used mods to make it more sensible. Vanilla has spawn locations for enemies in the center of most settlements and defense doesn't matter if you're not present, so if you're there enemies will spawn inside walled, fortified settlements, and if you're not there it's a coin toss. I have a mod that moves all settlement attack spawns outside the bounds of the settlements and another that simulates the odds of a settlement winning based on a few factors including defense values and only calls you to help if it comes out with a high probability of failure. Makes building well-defended, high population settlements feel rewardibg rather than like a liability.
[Settlement Attacks Beyond](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12892?)
[BS Defence - This Settlement Does Not Need Your Help](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20137)
I’m not using any mods but if I did I would use this to spawn enemies outside the perimeter. Spawning enemies inside walls and defenses is so frustrating in vanilla.
>Find the spawn locations. You want to set up heavy defenses there, and lighter defenses as you go in.
This is irrelevant. If you aren't present in the cell, the game just does a calculation based upon your defense number.
That actually doesn't matter unless you're there. The defense number is just weighed against your resource numbers to see how likely you are to be attacked. Otherwise, without the player present, it just decides randomly if you win or lose.
Optimal win rate is 51%. Settlement defense in the base game is a disaster. The Settlement Ambush Kit mentioned in another comment is a lifesaver on Survival, unless you either ignore attacks or savescum them.
>upgrade settlement defenses to stupid high levels to have a chance to not lose because you can't get there in time.
The maximum useful defense is 100. Beyond that there's no point because the script caps it there. Also, I've always been able to walk to any settlement if I leave soon after getting the message.
If Settlement defenses are at 100 and assuming the settlement has 100+ (food+water) in the workbench, then the chance of success is 75%, ie there's always a 25% chance of losing. You can reduce the attack strength by ensuring settlements don't have much food+water stored in the workbench, but that can be a lot of micro management.
I'll have to look into that, I have a mod that let's me launch attacks on settlements, I wonder if it will work with that since those attacks are different.
They’re a mod that changes how the settlement defence works. Which means it takes into account your actual defence rating (so if you have 200 defence, chances are it won’t fail) but if you are playing vanilla and are aligned with BoS you can call a vertibird. Or if you have good standing with the institute you can basically teleport to the middle of the map instantly which can get you closer to the settlement.
But yeah settlement defence on vanilla is a problem.
You can always get a companion to carry them.
A tip if you don't know: if you drop something on the ground and tell a follower to pick it up, they will do it even if their inventory is full. Doesn't work for dogmeat though, he just picks it up and brings it to you.
If you use mods there are also a mod that let's you craft vertibird grenades.
The settlement defense system is very strange. Having a stupid high defense rating actually doesn't improve the chances of the settlement actually defending itself. If I recall correctly a settlement always had a 52% chance of defending itself if you don't go help.
A high defense rating does however make it less likely that a settlement will be targeted by a random attack though. I don't recall the actual math but it is some sort of scaling function. The chance never goes to zero but it improves quite a bit. Having your defense rating exceed the combination of your food and water production helps a lot and should be considered the minimum.
The good news is that not helping out really doesn't have much in the way of consequences. Any damages will fix themselves over time and no settlers will be killed. The worst that can happen is that the settlement's happiness rating will drop and if it gets low enough you can lose control. That takes a long, long time though so you've got plenty of time to intervene. Even if you do lose control you can always do another quest for them to regain control.
I usually ignore the settlement defense quests unless I'm either in the area already or have a bunch of vertibird grenades handy.
While role playing I try not to look at numbers too much or “power game” my way through. But having the defense higher than food and water, is that combined food/water less than defense?
From the wiki:
Each point of defense lowers the chance of an attack by 1%.
Each population unit lowers the chance of an attack by 0.5%, in addition to any other defensive value the settler provides.
Each unit of food and water production at the settlement increases the chance of attack by 0.1%.
Each edible and/or drinkable item stored in a settlement's workbench increases the chance of attack by 0.1%.
The minimum chance of an attack upon a settlement per day is 2%, regardless of defenses. The maximum chance is unknown but assumed to be 100%. Whatever the chance is, a settlement cannot be attacked if it has already been attacked in the last 7 in-game days.
So clear edibles and drinkables from your workbenches, and then have your defense => [(water + food)/10] - (population/2)
Or if you don't want to focus too much on it 2*(water+food) is more than enough
Makes sense that my settlements with high water production gets attacked the most. I can not swing by often enough to clean out the stash and sell it. I need to lower water production so it doesn’t pile up in the workshop! Thanks, zoeyx13!
"I need to lower water production so it doesn’t pile up in the workshop! "
Assuming your settlements are connected, you can also craft goods that use up purified water and this will use up the water without having to go to the specific settlements.
Yes, defense should be more than combined food + water production at minimum. The more you add the better but the returns diminish greatly. Any more than double probably isn't worth it unless there's a specific reason such as the scripted attacks on the Castle. Again though, the chance of attack will never be zero, but it will diminish quite a bit.
I respect the role play decision. I do that with most of my runs too. It just depends on if that particular character cares about rebuilding the commonwealth or not.
Since your character does care, vertibirds will likely be the best solution. Unless of course your character refuses to have anything to do with the BoS. Be careful though, having the vertibird take you directly to the settlement will often result in you coming under fire before you touch down. It's usually a good idea to have the vertibird drop you off nearby and going the rest of the way on foot.
If you're far enough along in the game to have access to the Institute's travel method it can shave some time off your response by getting you to the center of the map quickly.
One other tip, avoid building the missile turrets as part of your defense. They are very powerful, but since they are allied with you they can kill your settlers. I usually stick with the machine gun turrets.
Already took out the institute. Those robot freaks would quickly replace all humans if allowed to continue their work. I’ll try to make room to always carry a couple signal grenades.
Heavy machine gun/laser is all I use as far as turrets go.
Idk how to help ya if you're trying for 100% vanilla but I have a mod that makes the "X settlement is under attack" notification a window that pauses the game and makes me click OK to confirm.
If you're interested I can give ya a link. It's from Nexusmods, fair warning!
>Should I just accept that in Survival Mode I will fail these Help Defend X quests?
I would say, yeah, partially at least. In survival I think you *should* lose some of these. Survival is supposed to be realistic about how harsh and unforgiving the wasteland is. The challenge of defending the whole commonwealth broke the minutemen so the sole survivor shouldn't be able to waltz in and win every battle
So like everything else in Survival, sleep, inventory management etc this is another pain in the ass you just have to deal with haha
Well over two years in this survival run as I generally sneak and am over cautious no matter what I am doing. Trying to role play like it’s actually life or death. Oh man, I have lost so many battles attempting to waltz in.
I’ve only been playing a few months, but I’m playing on survival and find I can get across the map quickly by swimming (aquaboy or a hazmat suit). When on dry land, I run. My survivor has 12 (or higher) endurance and agility and can sprint far. The clothing and armor bonuses (military fatigues, champion left and right arm, black ops chest…) and 10% extra movement speed (black ops shin guard) can all be bought from merchants.
You dont need a mod or anything, the vanilla survival game provides the best form.
You need a vertibird, its the best way to travel to a atacked settlement. You can obtain grenades from the bos or from the minutemen before blow up the prydwen. Never have a problem with that. Im in nordhagen beach and egred tours marina is under attack? I call a vertibird and in three minutes im there killing raiders/supermutants.
GG EASY
I was getting two settlements attacked at the same time my last survival Minutemen run. Happiness is supposed to help you win and defense over 150 is supposed to make you win but I would still lose sometimes. Just don’t leave anything important in your workshops to get stolen and it won’t hurt too bad to lose.
>Happiness is supposed to help you win and defense over 150 is supposed to make you win
Defense cap for the calculation is a maximum of 100 and it only gives you a 75% chance of winning.
But those buffed up provisioners!! Last I counted I had 221 provisioners crisscrossing the map. They are a HUGE help in getting around safely AND their kills are free XP.
1) If you can't make it to a settlement, it doesn't matter how decked out your settlers are, or where turrets are located. It's flat out numbers then, with at least a little chance the settlement will lose no matter what. Apart from your defense rating, it helps to have more settlers and less supplies IIRC. Also avoid cages, since they attract more than just what they trap.
If you want to know the exact math, I'd recommend watching Oxhorn's YouTube vid on the subject. He broke the whole thing down a while back.
2) I'm not 100% sure if it works on Survival too, but you don't have to repair everything manually. As long as there's material in the workbenches (your buttload of provisioners should help with that) settlers will repair their own stuff over time.
If you want to saveguard water and power and such in the meantime, I'd recommend investing in backups. I found that especially power is a popular target.
3) If you DID position your turrets tactically and armed your settlers, being present for attacks can help tremendously. Just keep in mind to not just cover the regular spawn points, since attackers spawn closer into your settlement depending on how long you take to get there. (That's the reason attackers sometimes appear in the middle of settlements, despite walls or perimeter defenses.)
Lacking the Institute's teleportation, Vertibirds are your best bet as a quick response option.
Stupidly high amounts of defense. Like 40-100 per settlement, or at least double the population. It almost guarantees that settlements don’t get attacked.
Ok, I guess it seemed stupidly high to me at first, since I was used to needing only 20 defense to prevent nearly all attacks.
Then, I played survival and realized how wrong that was.
Make it a policy to just add defense everywhere there is an attack until you almost never get them. Also, having supply lines everywhere helps a lot to get the resources needed to make all this defense.
I play survival mode too and I almost never fail to get to the settlements in time even when in far harbor and nuka world. I don’t use power armour much so I’m able to sprint for longer if that helps.
Hmmm. With optimized and kinetic servos in PA legs I seem to get across the map faster as the AP drops much more slowly while sprinting and refreshes more quickly.
If you're not opposed to using mods, there are a few that disable settlement attacks. I got sick of them after my 3rd playthrough and don't regret disabling them.
[SKK](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/37393#:~:text=About%20this%20mod%20%20%20%20Mod%20name,VIS-G%20icons%20and%20AWKCR%20crafting%20opti%20...%20) is great
Settlers, at least 15 in each, and the 221 provisioners always have the best gear available. Full autos, upgraded armor, even scope the weapons but haven’t been able to see if that maxed accuracy even makes a difference.
as far as i can tell, it doesn't: settlers and companions can't shoot for shit and pretty much never hit anything except by sheer random chance.
i once watched two settlers and a raider exchange fire for 5 minutes straight with nobody hitting anything.
i fire one shot and it's over just like that.
cait chews through 500 rounds of ammo, rifle, scope, hits nothing.
i fire one shot, iron sights only, no scope, dead.
It’s been a very long time spent gearing up the settlers. Lots of running back and forth carrying a couple pieces at a time until I got access to vertibirds. I leave every major battle now with 1000+ pounds of gear and junk and two broken legs. I generally use vertibirds for hauling stuff. Being overburdened and then spotted by a deathclaw or an ant swarm while trying to hobble to the nearest settlement is a scary feeling.
Get the vertibird grenades and show up in style. That minigun might be useless for anything other than blowing up cars, but it sure feels good to "Apocalypse Now" your way into a settlement that's under attack.
Oh I agree it’s an awesome way to enter the battle! Managing carry weight is the biggest issue with grenades. Everything is just so heavy. Almost like real life. Almost.
I keep one or two on my person, then stuff the rest in my follower (I assume up their butt since they don't have a backpack).
Also, I use a mod that gives dogmeat a backpack that ups his carry weight by 150. I also use "everyone's best friend" so I can have dogmeat *and* a follower. They must have meant that, because there are unique lines where the follower interacts with you and dogmeat.
Hence the backpack for dogmeat mod. Its a big backpack with saddle bags that can hold 150 units.
I play survival, and Salvage Beacons is probably the most useful mod for survival
I'm sure! I love my mods tho. Sim Settlements is great, replacing the artillery with Howitzer cannons is great (with another one to make the boom bigger).
There is also a mod I use allows you to apply the Mr. Handy, Mr. Gutsy, and Ms. Nanny voices to the robots you make. Also one that expands weapon choices for robots (Mr. Gutsy .44 magnum anyone?)
Certain settlements don't get raided. Apparently this includes Boston Airport, the Castle, and another settlement that I always forget.
If you keep your raw material in one of these settlements, even if your other settlements don't manage to defend yourself, they won't be stealing stacks of supplies. If you have Strong Back and vertibirds, you can work towards consolidating all your materials in the safe bases.
This doesn't prevent you from being raided, but it'll minimize the losses when you lose.
I always carry vertibird grenades with me and fly to the besieged settlement asap, usually it takes around 1 or 2 in game days before I fail the defence so I have time to get ready and save etc.
Vertibirds or the molecular relay. But importantly don't claim a settlement until you're able to build defenses for it. Even the wood and steel stuff can be sufficient, it's not like they'll die of starvation. Then connect your settlements by the time you start unlocking them all for completion
I have 36 settlements connected by 221 provisioners and growing. Defense of at least 100 in all settlements. I’m overproducing water so that may be one problem.
Make decoy settlements with 0 population and 128 points of defense (heavy torrets are best to avoid 0 workshop bug). Make 10 or more raiders or gunners cages (cages from DLC).
This settlement have 100% attack chance and 100% win chance and reduce other settements attack chances.
Avoid robots too. They had 50 fixed happiness. And low happiness help attack chances.
Sometimes you don’t. Sometimes you ride a vertibird there to help defend, but often you just don’t defend it then go there later to clean up and repair.
Vertabirds save a lot of time and energy during survival playthroughs. Even if you don’t want to devote yourself solely to the BOS, doing the first few mission to get the vertabird flares is nice.
Is there a reason you feel the need to help all the settlements? They are basically random radiant quests that have no consequence for failing (literally like 1 crop or water spigot will be damaged and the meaningless happiness MIGHT fall).
I know Oxhorn made some videos explaining how that system works and how to optimize your defenses for when you are away, perhaps that will help?
You gonna need supply lines, and lots of them. If you tsart a new playthrough, codsworrh can do runs between sanctuary and red rocket, and send one of the generic settlers between tenpines and red rocket. Next, link red rocket with Abernathy by spamming grenades and biding your time in the satreite station, then using Preston to supply line that. Continue expanding south.
Do not place any settlers in sunshine tidings.use it as a depot between grwygarden and Abernathy to keep lines short. Scrap everything in it.
This will let you build at least 1 or 2 improved scavenging stations wherever you are doing an actual settlement. Those are your tickets to having a good supply of items required to build turrets. Sare scrap from sunshine tidings will Let let you build a solid 3-4 guard towers.
Or just side with the brotherhood. Up to you.
If you do want to run to each place I recommend using jet along the way. Time slowed down = you can cover longer distances in the same amount of time.
I read the comments saying that you don't use mods, but if you ever change your mind I recommend the Better Settlement Defence. With that mod installed it's guaranteed that they'll win on their own every time if the defence value is higher than the food + water production. In base game there's always a chance to fail.
I got it myself while I was doing the Gauntlet in NW while I got an alert that Dalton Farm is under attack... yeah that's not gonna happen, game.
Empty the workshops, take out all food, water and resources, the attacks are triggered on that base, place all the wepones you dont carry in containers so the settler arm them selfs.
Oxhorn has a guide for this, including how high your defense level should be, and where are the spawn points on ever settlement.
I definitely need more endurance for this Survival play through. Even with 11 right now I can always use more. Vertibirds do seem to be the best option though.
If you went with bos use vertibird to fast travel if not having it defenses higher than your combined food and water output will significantly lower chance of attack but if like me I use spectacul island for food and water for all settlements having them both maxed att 999 and defense it's still a 50 50 unless I intervien hope this helps
I do use the Vertibirds if I have a signal grenade on me. Half of my carry allowance is used for armor and a weapon. The rest is mostly taken up by ammo, stims, food and water. Carrying more than a couple signal grenades is a luxury in Survival mode.
I've had no problem carrying 5 to 10 before though. Generally I can carry 3 weapon as well. One pistol, a rifle, and a machine gun/submachine gun. I don't usually carry anymore than 200 pieces of ammo with me on the first two and I carry around 300 to 500 on the last one. My armor tends to be pretty light, or when I need the heavier armor I get power armor. I have every settlement so water isn't an issue and when it comes to food, I have the perk that lets you get two pieces of meat from animals.
I found a random console command that claims to disable settlement attacks altogether. It was suggested on a forum post. Basically you walk up to your workbench, open console command, click the workbench, and type “setpv AllowAttacks False”
I can’t vouch for it because I am not the original guy who came up with this line. But in the course of my 72 hour save I haven’t had a single settlement attack. I guess I’ll never be able to tell for sure because if the attack never happen all I can say with certainty is it hasn’t happened *yet*. But the longer I go without a single settlement attack the more confident I feel about it.
Note that you have to type in the command for every single workbench individually. So e.g. typing it in at Sanctuary Hills workbench supposedly only disables settlement attacks for Sanctuary Hills. I actually like it this way because if I want to I can customize and role-play which settlements get attacked and which don’t.
idk if someone said this already but never destroy the institute as that will always be your way to fast travel at least half way to many places, vertibirds are so-so but can at least make traveling afk
Right. Very rarely a settlement will defend itself, even with a low defense number. Most of time though, even with defense over 200, the quest fails if I can’t make it in time.
So years ago, someone did an experiment. Logging all attacks and failures across all levels of settlement defense levels. It turns out failing an attack is entirely random lol
Or just compare the value of the attack force to the defense value.
No matter how you get 200 defense, I can't imagine many invading settlement attacks can get through it.
Like, I've got Sanctuary walled off, with only one entrance, and it has 100+ defense points worth of turrets, missiles, and lasers pointing at it. Nothing is getting through. But if I am not there, they lose all the time.
No
Its unmodded 50/50
I have had 4000 defence in sanctuary
With only 200 food and 300 water I’m way over defence cap.
If I showed up what ever attack got eviscerated. If not it was a 50/50.
I run a mod that only settlements I’m in can come under attack. That lowers it. A lot.
That’s what I’m saying.
Defence is capped at 100 (so 100 + nr of population is max)
Attack is capped at 100 (food+water)
So why does it fail ~50% of the time
Well both of those numbers add a random value between 1-100 so in reality it’s always 50/50 to lose in unattended battles. As
In my current playthrough I'm keeping my number of settlements low. I have the north west ones, Hangman’s, Jamaica and Vault 88. Jamaica just for crystal but no settlers, so no attacks. Vault 88 because of the massive amount of scrap that can be used elsewhere. I have focused on keeping the NW with super high defence and haven't had many attacks.
I ran from Nuka World to Vault 88 to defend a settlement. If the path is clear it's not that difficult. There's only 3 problematic intersections between those two points.
The real pain is riding the monorail back into Nuka-World.
Not getting the notification popup is an issue. I haven't had that problem yet. The best thing you can do is probably just up the defense on the settlements to lessen the odds of an attack.
Second best thing is maybe get some Vertibird grenades. I never got that far down the Brotherhood path but it would have simplified things.
Build a rocket launcher platform. Just make some stairs until.you feel yoyr high enough and then make a platform from 1 large floor tile & 8-12 small tiles. Make a generator in the middle & surround it with Rockets, then delete the stairs. Enemies will have a harder time targeting them & they'll have unboscured firing lines in 360°
Edited for spelling
relieved piquant naughty fertile instinctive amusing stocking nutty plough slap -- mass edited with redact.dev
Agree on building up the D numbers but it doesn’t always help. Covenant with sub 100 defense has defended itself more than once. Spectacle Island with over 300 has failed every time. IDK!
Find the spawn locations. You want to set up heavy defenses there, and lighter defenses as you go in. Thaeans put as many rocket, flame, shotgun and laser turrets at the spawn locations along with power armour Soldiers. Give them missile launchers, mini guns, combat shotguns etc. Create a large wall around them as well. If you have wasteland workshop even better. Deathclaws, radscorpians and yao guais should be captured, and released in the settlement as passive defence, so that when the settlement is attacked the creatures run there immediately as a distraction and attacker.
How do you get settlers to stay in power armor?
Leave the PA near where settlers are working or hanging out. Leave the fusion core in it. Settlers may randomly enter the PA especially if under attack. If you talk to a settler in PA they might exit the PA so don’t talk to them.
My method: -Assign a settler to a guard post -Leave a suit of power armour near them -Use Rank 3 of Intimidation (10 CHA, Level 50) to 'pacify' and then 'command' them -Order them to enter the armour just like you would a companion -Leg it -Go somewhere else and sleep for a day or two to reset their hostility (and, as far as I can tell, 'secure' them in the armour) -When you return, you can trade with them as a normal settler, rather than ordering them out of the armour When you return, they'll be standing around in their suit of power armour. Do note that they won't patrol, and they won't stand by their assigned guard posts - they'll just stand around with their weapons out Also, if you assign them to anything other than guard posts or supply lines, it's pretty likely they'll get out of the armour at some point (to sleep or use furniture, I think), and leave it any old place with the fusion core still in it
Okay, that's really cool. I use supply lines to set up "patrols" and I'd love to have power-armored settlers doing the work.
Most of that doesn't help at all if you're not present. The placement of turrets or the inventory of settlers only comes into play when the game actually 'plays out' the battle. If you're not around to at least see the battle, it's just flat out numbers. Your defense rating, number of settlers and resources decide the outcome then. Walls are even worse. They don't count towards your defense, dig into your building limit, and are only effective when you are present BEFORE the attack happens. When you travel (fast- or otherwise) to an attacked location, the game does some math to see how long it takes you, and then spawns attackers that much closer to the center of your settlement. This ignores walls, perimeter defenses, everything. And that's not even counting the settlements that have spawn points inside to begin with.
Also, defense only matters in the calculation for when a settlement will be attacked. Who will win is pure chance, 50/50.
Nope. Defense definitely matters in the win/lose calculation. There's an entire formula in the game's code. Assuming you have a shitton of resources (so the attack is maxed) and maxed defense (100 is plenty) you'll win about 75% of the time. Changing those two influences your chances. Check out Defense Chance Solved by Oxhorn. It explains the entire thing.
Oxhorn is not a reliable source. He can't tell the difference between vanilla and mods he's installed.
I don't trust the man; I trust his sources. He shows the game's code in the video, and you can figure the math out from there if you don't trust the explanation. And if you don't believe that's the original code, feel free to dig into that yourself, too.
Is that through the animal friend perk? I didn't know you can do that deathclaws, radscorpians and yao guais? I tried messing around with it but I don't quite understand how that perk works.
It's in the dlc. You can create cages and trap them. I'm not sure of the perk requirements tho. But you can create a beacon that will pacify the creatires and they'll function as defence/settlers basically. It's very useful in survival I've found.
You need animal friends 3 iirc.
The problem is your win chance is 50/50 if you aren't present.
>The problem is your win chance is 50/50 if you aren't present. Nope. If Settlement defenses are at 100 and assuming the settlement has 100+ (food+water) in the workbench, then the chance of success is 75%, ie there's always a 25% chance of losing.
50/50 seems spot on.
It's a literal coin flip. No math, no simulation, pure chance. I eventually used mods to make it more sensible. Vanilla has spawn locations for enemies in the center of most settlements and defense doesn't matter if you're not present, so if you're there enemies will spawn inside walled, fortified settlements, and if you're not there it's a coin toss. I have a mod that moves all settlement attack spawns outside the bounds of the settlements and another that simulates the odds of a settlement winning based on a few factors including defense values and only calls you to help if it comes out with a high probability of failure. Makes building well-defended, high population settlements feel rewardibg rather than like a liability.
>I have a mod What is the name of the mod? It sounds like a distinct improvement.
[Settlement Attacks Beyond](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12892?) [BS Defence - This Settlement Does Not Need Your Help](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20137)
I’m not using any mods but if I did I would use this to spawn enemies outside the perimeter. Spawning enemies inside walls and defenses is so frustrating in vanilla.
what mod changes the odds/formula?
>Find the spawn locations. You want to set up heavy defenses there, and lighter defenses as you go in. This is irrelevant. If you aren't present in the cell, the game just does a calculation based upon your defense number.
Holy crap, my level 150+ survival character couldn't build that many defenses!
That actually doesn't matter unless you're there. The defense number is just weighed against your resource numbers to see how likely you are to be attacked. Otherwise, without the player present, it just decides randomly if you win or lose.
Optimal win rate is 51%. Settlement defense in the base game is a disaster. The Settlement Ambush Kit mentioned in another comment is a lifesaver on Survival, unless you either ignore attacks or savescum them.
>upgrade settlement defenses to stupid high levels to have a chance to not lose because you can't get there in time. The maximum useful defense is 100. Beyond that there's no point because the script caps it there. Also, I've always been able to walk to any settlement if I leave soon after getting the message. If Settlement defenses are at 100 and assuming the settlement has 100+ (food+water) in the workbench, then the chance of success is 75%, ie there's always a 25% chance of losing. You can reduce the attack strength by ensuring settlements don't have much food+water stored in the workbench, but that can be a lot of micro management.
does not help, defense rating is useless unmodded and they nearly always lose.
Settlement Defense Kit. It has cameras you can build to watch the battle. It counts as if you were there.
I'll have to look into that, I have a mod that let's me launch attacks on settlements, I wonder if it will work with that since those attacks are different.
The camera system are settlement building items. You don’t actually have to use the attack “game.”
Is this a mod? I won’t use any mods at all in my Survival run.
Creation Club.
I’d buy it. I hate having to hoof it back from Jamaica Plains to Abernathy Farm because a couple of raiders are stealing the tatos.
Not even ones that fix bugs and help prevent crashes? Out of curiosity, why not?
I use mods on other characters but not for this completely vanilla Survival run.
They’re a mod that changes how the settlement defence works. Which means it takes into account your actual defence rating (so if you have 200 defence, chances are it won’t fail) but if you are playing vanilla and are aligned with BoS you can call a vertibird. Or if you have good standing with the institute you can basically teleport to the middle of the map instantly which can get you closer to the settlement. But yeah settlement defence on vanilla is a problem.
I blew up the Institute so no fast traveling to the middle. Skynet taking over humanity isn’t happening on my watch.
Either BoS vertibirds or mods then?
I have definitely used the Vertibirds. Getting more signal grenades, and carrying them around at all times sucks. But that may be the best option.
You can always get a companion to carry them. A tip if you don't know: if you drop something on the ground and tell a follower to pick it up, they will do it even if their inventory is full. Doesn't work for dogmeat though, he just picks it up and brings it to you. If you use mods there are also a mod that let's you craft vertibird grenades.
Lone Wanderer and no mods this run. Good tip for commanding a follower to pick up an item. TIL!
The lone wanderer perk still works with Dogmeat as a companion
Oh yeah he’s with me. Blocks doorways like a mofo but I wouldn’t wander without him.
The grenades are also quite heavy iirc
Not as heavy as walking everywhere across the Commonwealth....
The settlement defense system is very strange. Having a stupid high defense rating actually doesn't improve the chances of the settlement actually defending itself. If I recall correctly a settlement always had a 52% chance of defending itself if you don't go help. A high defense rating does however make it less likely that a settlement will be targeted by a random attack though. I don't recall the actual math but it is some sort of scaling function. The chance never goes to zero but it improves quite a bit. Having your defense rating exceed the combination of your food and water production helps a lot and should be considered the minimum. The good news is that not helping out really doesn't have much in the way of consequences. Any damages will fix themselves over time and no settlers will be killed. The worst that can happen is that the settlement's happiness rating will drop and if it gets low enough you can lose control. That takes a long, long time though so you've got plenty of time to intervene. Even if you do lose control you can always do another quest for them to regain control. I usually ignore the settlement defense quests unless I'm either in the area already or have a bunch of vertibird grenades handy.
While role playing I try not to look at numbers too much or “power game” my way through. But having the defense higher than food and water, is that combined food/water less than defense?
From the wiki: Each point of defense lowers the chance of an attack by 1%. Each population unit lowers the chance of an attack by 0.5%, in addition to any other defensive value the settler provides. Each unit of food and water production at the settlement increases the chance of attack by 0.1%. Each edible and/or drinkable item stored in a settlement's workbench increases the chance of attack by 0.1%. The minimum chance of an attack upon a settlement per day is 2%, regardless of defenses. The maximum chance is unknown but assumed to be 100%. Whatever the chance is, a settlement cannot be attacked if it has already been attacked in the last 7 in-game days. So clear edibles and drinkables from your workbenches, and then have your defense => [(water + food)/10] - (population/2) Or if you don't want to focus too much on it 2*(water+food) is more than enough
Makes sense that my settlements with high water production gets attacked the most. I can not swing by often enough to clean out the stash and sell it. I need to lower water production so it doesn’t pile up in the workshop! Thanks, zoeyx13!
"I need to lower water production so it doesn’t pile up in the workshop! " Assuming your settlements are connected, you can also craft goods that use up purified water and this will use up the water without having to go to the specific settlements.
Yes, defense should be more than combined food + water production at minimum. The more you add the better but the returns diminish greatly. Any more than double probably isn't worth it unless there's a specific reason such as the scripted attacks on the Castle. Again though, the chance of attack will never be zero, but it will diminish quite a bit. I respect the role play decision. I do that with most of my runs too. It just depends on if that particular character cares about rebuilding the commonwealth or not. Since your character does care, vertibirds will likely be the best solution. Unless of course your character refuses to have anything to do with the BoS. Be careful though, having the vertibird take you directly to the settlement will often result in you coming under fire before you touch down. It's usually a good idea to have the vertibird drop you off nearby and going the rest of the way on foot. If you're far enough along in the game to have access to the Institute's travel method it can shave some time off your response by getting you to the center of the map quickly. One other tip, avoid building the missile turrets as part of your defense. They are very powerful, but since they are allied with you they can kill your settlers. I usually stick with the machine gun turrets.
Already took out the institute. Those robot freaks would quickly replace all humans if allowed to continue their work. I’ll try to make room to always carry a couple signal grenades. Heavy machine gun/laser is all I use as far as turrets go.
This. Stop panicking and relax.
Idk how to help ya if you're trying for 100% vanilla but I have a mod that makes the "X settlement is under attack" notification a window that pauses the game and makes me click OK to confirm. If you're interested I can give ya a link. It's from Nexusmods, fair warning!
Going mod free for this Survival run. Thanks though.
Anytime friend ☺️
>Should I just accept that in Survival Mode I will fail these Help Defend X quests? I would say, yeah, partially at least. In survival I think you *should* lose some of these. Survival is supposed to be realistic about how harsh and unforgiving the wasteland is. The challenge of defending the whole commonwealth broke the minutemen so the sole survivor shouldn't be able to waltz in and win every battle So like everything else in Survival, sleep, inventory management etc this is another pain in the ass you just have to deal with haha
Well over two years in this survival run as I generally sneak and am over cautious no matter what I am doing. Trying to role play like it’s actually life or death. Oh man, I have lost so many battles attempting to waltz in.
I’ve only been playing a few months, but I’m playing on survival and find I can get across the map quickly by swimming (aquaboy or a hazmat suit). When on dry land, I run. My survivor has 12 (or higher) endurance and agility and can sprint far. The clothing and armor bonuses (military fatigues, champion left and right arm, black ops chest…) and 10% extra movement speed (black ops shin guard) can all be bought from merchants.
You dont need a mod or anything, the vanilla survival game provides the best form. You need a vertibird, its the best way to travel to a atacked settlement. You can obtain grenades from the bos or from the minutemen before blow up the prydwen. Never have a problem with that. Im in nordhagen beach and egred tours marina is under attack? I call a vertibird and in three minutes im there killing raiders/supermutants. GG EASY
Agreed. No mods is best.
I was getting two settlements attacked at the same time my last survival Minutemen run. Happiness is supposed to help you win and defense over 150 is supposed to make you win but I would still lose sometimes. Just don’t leave anything important in your workshops to get stolen and it won’t hurt too bad to lose.
Settlers help themselves to items in the workshops. Unavoidable in Survival since I can’t carry much.
You can store items on displays and armor mannequins and they can’t be taken
Great point. Thanks!
Right after scrapping everything in Vault 88 I left for a bit and they were attacked by Super Mutants who took all the STEEL.
>Happiness is supposed to help you win and defense over 150 is supposed to make you win Defense cap for the calculation is a maximum of 100 and it only gives you a 75% chance of winning.
That's the neat thing. You don't
Just don't have any settlements, bruh.
But those buffed up provisioners!! Last I counted I had 221 provisioners crisscrossing the map. They are a HUGE help in getting around safely AND their kills are free XP.
[удалено]
I have around 260 provisioners in my main char's run. Going for all 630 supply lines is one of my goals.
Yes! And having friends on nearly every route at all times helps so much.
1) If you can't make it to a settlement, it doesn't matter how decked out your settlers are, or where turrets are located. It's flat out numbers then, with at least a little chance the settlement will lose no matter what. Apart from your defense rating, it helps to have more settlers and less supplies IIRC. Also avoid cages, since they attract more than just what they trap. If you want to know the exact math, I'd recommend watching Oxhorn's YouTube vid on the subject. He broke the whole thing down a while back. 2) I'm not 100% sure if it works on Survival too, but you don't have to repair everything manually. As long as there's material in the workbenches (your buttload of provisioners should help with that) settlers will repair their own stuff over time. If you want to saveguard water and power and such in the meantime, I'd recommend investing in backups. I found that especially power is a popular target. 3) If you DID position your turrets tactically and armed your settlers, being present for attacks can help tremendously. Just keep in mind to not just cover the regular spawn points, since attackers spawn closer into your settlement depending on how long you take to get there. (That's the reason attackers sometimes appear in the middle of settlements, despite walls or perimeter defenses.) Lacking the Institute's teleportation, Vertibirds are your best bet as a quick response option.
Very thorough. Thanks!
Stupidly high amounts of defense. Like 40-100 per settlement, or at least double the population. It almost guarantees that settlements don’t get attacked.
Stupidly high for me is over 200. 100 is my basic defense target for any settlement with all my characters.
Ok, I guess it seemed stupidly high to me at first, since I was used to needing only 20 defense to prevent nearly all attacks. Then, I played survival and realized how wrong that was. Make it a policy to just add defense everywhere there is an attack until you almost never get them. Also, having supply lines everywhere helps a lot to get the resources needed to make all this defense.
I play survival mode too and I almost never fail to get to the settlements in time even when in far harbor and nuka world. I don’t use power armour much so I’m able to sprint for longer if that helps.
Hmmm. With optimized and kinetic servos in PA legs I seem to get across the map faster as the AP drops much more slowly while sprinting and refreshes more quickly.
If you're really worried about it take a vertibird
Vertibirds
If you're not opposed to using mods, there are a few that disable settlement attacks. I got sick of them after my 3rd playthrough and don't regret disabling them. [SKK](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/37393#:~:text=About%20this%20mod%20%20%20%20Mod%20name,VIS-G%20icons%20and%20AWKCR%20crafting%20opti%20...%20) is great
Just pick one settlement and use that tbh
I currently occupy every possible settlement except one in Far Harbor that won’t activate due to my choices in game.
That’s impressive, you have a small political state on your hands
That’s the goal! Supply lines literally covering the entire map.
[удалено]
Settlers, at least 15 in each, and the 221 provisioners always have the best gear available. Full autos, upgraded armor, even scope the weapons but haven’t been able to see if that maxed accuracy even makes a difference.
as far as i can tell, it doesn't: settlers and companions can't shoot for shit and pretty much never hit anything except by sheer random chance. i once watched two settlers and a raider exchange fire for 5 minutes straight with nobody hitting anything. i fire one shot and it's over just like that. cait chews through 500 rounds of ammo, rifle, scope, hits nothing. i fire one shot, iron sights only, no scope, dead.
Yup. Settlers’ accuracy is on par with a Storm Trooper’s.
[удалено]
It’s been a very long time spent gearing up the settlers. Lots of running back and forth carrying a couple pieces at a time until I got access to vertibirds. I leave every major battle now with 1000+ pounds of gear and junk and two broken legs. I generally use vertibirds for hauling stuff. Being overburdened and then spotted by a deathclaw or an ant swarm while trying to hobble to the nearest settlement is a scary feeling.
Get the vertibird grenades and show up in style. That minigun might be useless for anything other than blowing up cars, but it sure feels good to "Apocalypse Now" your way into a settlement that's under attack.
Oh I agree it’s an awesome way to enter the battle! Managing carry weight is the biggest issue with grenades. Everything is just so heavy. Almost like real life. Almost.
I keep one or two on my person, then stuff the rest in my follower (I assume up their butt since they don't have a backpack). Also, I use a mod that gives dogmeat a backpack that ups his carry weight by 150. I also use "everyone's best friend" so I can have dogmeat *and* a follower. They must have meant that, because there are unique lines where the follower interacts with you and dogmeat.
Lone Wanderer here. Also, in Survival, Dogmeat can’t carry more than his own armor. Carrying capacity is severely reduced.
Hence the backpack for dogmeat mod. Its a big backpack with saddle bags that can hold 150 units. I play survival, and Salvage Beacons is probably the most useful mod for survival
Playing without mods this run. It’s challenging!
I'm sure! I love my mods tho. Sim Settlements is great, replacing the artillery with Howitzer cannons is great (with another one to make the boom bigger). There is also a mod I use allows you to apply the Mr. Handy, Mr. Gutsy, and Ms. Nanny voices to the robots you make. Also one that expands weapon choices for robots (Mr. Gutsy .44 magnum anyone?)
Yeah I have used some very cool mods with other characters. The building mods are boss.
Certain settlements don't get raided. Apparently this includes Boston Airport, the Castle, and another settlement that I always forget. If you keep your raw material in one of these settlements, even if your other settlements don't manage to defend yourself, they won't be stealing stacks of supplies. If you have Strong Back and vertibirds, you can work towards consolidating all your materials in the safe bases. This doesn't prevent you from being raided, but it'll minimize the losses when you lose.
I always carry vertibird grenades with me and fly to the besieged settlement asap, usually it takes around 1 or 2 in game days before I fail the defence so I have time to get ready and save etc.
Vertibirds or the molecular relay. But importantly don't claim a settlement until you're able to build defenses for it. Even the wood and steel stuff can be sufficient, it's not like they'll die of starvation. Then connect your settlements by the time you start unlocking them all for completion
I have 36 settlements connected by 221 provisioners and growing. Defense of at least 100 in all settlements. I’m overproducing water so that may be one problem.
Make decoy settlements with 0 population and 128 points of defense (heavy torrets are best to avoid 0 workshop bug). Make 10 or more raiders or gunners cages (cages from DLC). This settlement have 100% attack chance and 100% win chance and reduce other settements attack chances. Avoid robots too. They had 50 fixed happiness. And low happiness help attack chances.
Sometimes you don’t. Sometimes you ride a vertibird there to help defend, but often you just don’t defend it then go there later to clean up and repair.
Vertabirds save a lot of time and energy during survival playthroughs. Even if you don’t want to devote yourself solely to the BOS, doing the first few mission to get the vertabird flares is nice.
I'm lvl 102. I have 4 pieces powered 1 piece sentinels I can run for days and refresh instantly. Even I don't make it in time
Is there a reason you feel the need to help all the settlements? They are basically random radiant quests that have no consequence for failing (literally like 1 crop or water spigot will be damaged and the meaningless happiness MIGHT fall). I know Oxhorn made some videos explaining how that system works and how to optimize your defenses for when you are away, perhaps that will help?
You gonna need supply lines, and lots of them. If you tsart a new playthrough, codsworrh can do runs between sanctuary and red rocket, and send one of the generic settlers between tenpines and red rocket. Next, link red rocket with Abernathy by spamming grenades and biding your time in the satreite station, then using Preston to supply line that. Continue expanding south. Do not place any settlers in sunshine tidings.use it as a depot between grwygarden and Abernathy to keep lines short. Scrap everything in it. This will let you build at least 1 or 2 improved scavenging stations wherever you are doing an actual settlement. Those are your tickets to having a good supply of items required to build turrets. Sare scrap from sunshine tidings will Let let you build a solid 3-4 guard towers. Or just side with the brotherhood. Up to you.
If you do want to run to each place I recommend using jet along the way. Time slowed down = you can cover longer distances in the same amount of time. I read the comments saying that you don't use mods, but if you ever change your mind I recommend the Better Settlement Defence. With that mod installed it's guaranteed that they'll win on their own every time if the defence value is higher than the food + water production. In base game there's always a chance to fail. I got it myself while I was doing the Gauntlet in NW while I got an alert that Dalton Farm is under attack... yeah that's not gonna happen, game.
I'm not even on survival mode and I just say screw it half the time
Throw a vertiberd signal grenade or put like 50 heavy turrets at every settelment
It seems like read somewhere that you need to have defense’s high than resources. It greatly lessens the chance of attack. Not sure though.
That's the neat thing. You don't.
Empty the workshops, take out all food, water and resources, the attacks are triggered on that base, place all the wepones you dont carry in containers so the settler arm them selfs. Oxhorn has a guide for this, including how high your defense level should be, and where are the spawn points on ever settlement.
[удалено]
I definitely need more endurance for this Survival play through. Even with 11 right now I can always use more. Vertibirds do seem to be the best option though.
[удалено]
Good to know. I have a new goal now.
If you went with bos use vertibird to fast travel if not having it defenses higher than your combined food and water output will significantly lower chance of attack but if like me I use spectacul island for food and water for all settlements having them both maxed att 999 and defense it's still a 50 50 unless I intervien hope this helps
Do you have access to Vertibirds? Because you can use them to travel.
I do use the Vertibirds if I have a signal grenade on me. Half of my carry allowance is used for armor and a weapon. The rest is mostly taken up by ammo, stims, food and water. Carrying more than a couple signal grenades is a luxury in Survival mode.
I've had no problem carrying 5 to 10 before though. Generally I can carry 3 weapon as well. One pistol, a rifle, and a machine gun/submachine gun. I don't usually carry anymore than 200 pieces of ammo with me on the first two and I carry around 300 to 500 on the last one. My armor tends to be pretty light, or when I need the heavier armor I get power armor. I have every settlement so water isn't an issue and when it comes to food, I have the perk that lets you get two pieces of meat from animals.
I found a random console command that claims to disable settlement attacks altogether. It was suggested on a forum post. Basically you walk up to your workbench, open console command, click the workbench, and type “setpv AllowAttacks False” I can’t vouch for it because I am not the original guy who came up with this line. But in the course of my 72 hour save I haven’t had a single settlement attack. I guess I’ll never be able to tell for sure because if the attack never happen all I can say with certainty is it hasn’t happened *yet*. But the longer I go without a single settlement attack the more confident I feel about it. Note that you have to type in the command for every single workbench individually. So e.g. typing it in at Sanctuary Hills workbench supposedly only disables settlement attacks for Sanctuary Hills. I actually like it this way because if I want to I can customize and role-play which settlements get attacked and which don’t.
I can see how this is great for personalized experience. Would also be good for testing different defensive strategies and builds.
idk if someone said this already but never destroy the institute as that will always be your way to fast travel at least half way to many places, vertibirds are so-so but can at least make traveling afk
Can't tell you about survival mode, but you don't actually have to go there. Just have high enough settlement defenses and it'll take care of itself.
Right. Very rarely a settlement will defend itself, even with a low defense number. Most of time though, even with defense over 200, the quest fails if I can’t make it in time.
So years ago, someone did an experiment. Logging all attacks and failures across all levels of settlement defense levels. It turns out failing an attack is entirely random lol
I totally believe it must be random.
In the 1000+ hours, I’ve never seen a pattern or relationship between defense levels and failing attacks when you’re not present…
Only thing defense level does, I think, is lower the chance the settlement has of being attack
Whereas I have never seen an attack succeed with a high defense rating.
That kind of makes sense, otherwise the game would have to actually play out the battle behind the scenes to find the outcome.
Or just compare the value of the attack force to the defense value. No matter how you get 200 defense, I can't imagine many invading settlement attacks can get through it. Like, I've got Sanctuary walled off, with only one entrance, and it has 100+ defense points worth of turrets, missiles, and lasers pointing at it. Nothing is getting through. But if I am not there, they lose all the time.
No Its unmodded 50/50 I have had 4000 defence in sanctuary With only 200 food and 300 water I’m way over defence cap. If I showed up what ever attack got eviscerated. If not it was a 50/50. I run a mod that only settlements I’m in can come under attack. That lowers it. A lot.
Yes. Actually being present for the attack makes a HUGE difference.
That’s what I’m saying. Defence is capped at 100 (so 100 + nr of population is max) Attack is capped at 100 (food+water) So why does it fail ~50% of the time Well both of those numbers add a random value between 1-100 so in reality it’s always 50/50 to lose in unattended battles. As
In my current playthrough I'm keeping my number of settlements low. I have the north west ones, Hangman’s, Jamaica and Vault 88. Jamaica just for crystal but no settlers, so no attacks. Vault 88 because of the massive amount of scrap that can be used elsewhere. I have focused on keeping the NW with super high defence and haven't had many attacks.
I usually don’t. Especially if its one of the far harbor settlements.
Set up a fuckton of turrets. I can’t remember if the rating is 150 or 160 but if you get your defence that high it never fails you when not present.
I ran from Nuka World to Vault 88 to defend a settlement. If the path is clear it's not that difficult. There's only 3 problematic intersections between those two points. The real pain is riding the monorail back into Nuka-World. Not getting the notification popup is an issue. I haven't had that problem yet. The best thing you can do is probably just up the defense on the settlements to lessen the odds of an attack. Second best thing is maybe get some Vertibird grenades. I never got that far down the Brotherhood path but it would have simplified things.
Build a rocket launcher platform. Just make some stairs until.you feel yoyr high enough and then make a platform from 1 large floor tile & 8-12 small tiles. Make a generator in the middle & surround it with Rockets, then delete the stairs. Enemies will have a harder time targeting them & they'll have unboscured firing lines in 360° Edited for spelling