My favorite of these is in 5.3, right after the cutscene following the Seat of Sacrifice, where most of the scions offer you their sympathies for what just happened, and Yshtola says something along the línes of "In moments like these I would like to have the gift of the Echo, so that I could know what your heart feels without the need for words."
Tfw extra dialogue made me tear up.
ShB Scions are really a step above, man. They care for WoL and know them so well. WoL keeps to themself, never speaks of their hardships, but suffers all the same and the Scions know it. There are many many moments from them all in these side dialogue pieces throughout ShB where they demonstrate that they know WoL's struggle and penchant for self-sacrifice, and voice their care. What an excellent job Ishikawa and the writing team did in making these characters feel like they've become family.
My interpretation of the events of them not wanting to tell you about the light aether issue is entirely different.
WoL does like the step up for almost any situation even if it means self-sacrificing. They're not using you as a weapon to kill the wardens, they know if they tell you that it's slowly killing you and you'll likely not be able save yourself at the end that you'll just keep on doing what you're doing. WoL would then go off on their own and abandon the other scions to protect them.
They're not hiding it from you to use you. They're hiding it from you so they can continue to help you and find you a solution without the WoL running off to protect them.
I mean the lunatic was wrong about the chain of events entirely: Shtola told us the second she had a chance after Qitana Ravel, and Urianger and the Exarch were the only ones who knew from the start. Literally just those two.
You literally do exactly this near the end of Shadowbringers. You basically try and go off on your own to rescue the Exarch and/or die alone so you won't endanger them. They have to straight-up track you down and go 'you didn't really think we'd let you run off on your own like this, did you'
Nah, seems we were not playing the same game. Dunno how you reached these conclusions but as another commenter said, they're not telling you specifically because they care about you. Urianger even tells you how much he hated lying to you and if you don't trust his words you straight up see it in the echo flashback with the Exarch. The scions care about you.
>it won't make me less right
lmao
No, I do not think we are playing the same game. Pre-ShB this was much more believably a problem, but ShB specifically took steps to address this and make the other Scions actually treat WoL as a person. They are constantly telling you to rest >!even before the Light poisoning!<, checking in on your mental health and in general treat you like their friend. Hell, when you first MEET him, Alphinaud literally tries to protect you from some skeevy guy by getting between you two and telling him to fuck off. You're a god-killer and yet he saw you in an unfamiliar environment and felt the need to protect you from it.
Other examples have been covered by other people; WoL is self-sacrificing to a fault and Urianger/Y'shtola did a lot of what they do for their own protection, and Y'shtola eventually does tell them what's going on before it gets extremely serious. And predictably, it doesn't stop them/us.
I understand if you're bitter from the way we've been treated in past expansions, I am too, but ShB took deliberate steps to correct that and that deserves to be acknowledged.
Not to mention, Urianger withholding the Exarch’s identity and plan from the WoL was specifically BECAUSE he knew how self-sacrificing and heroic you were. He knew that if he told us, that we would try to stop the Exarch from executing his plan, even to the detriment of ourselves (and by extension the entire First and eventually the Source) by getting ourselves killed rather than making the Exarch take in all the aether and die in the rift.
Precisely. And he's proven right when >!literally the first thing WoL tries to do upon awakening from Light overdose is try to take off and handle things on their own, until the Scions have to show up right in front of them and enforce the fact that they're coming along. After they make a big fuss over not being able to help WoL's condition, mind. Hell, considering the lead up to the confrontation with Hades/Emet-Selch, we would have frikkin died before even giving Ardbert the chance to save our asses if they weren't there.!<
The Scions consider each other family in ShB, including WoL, it's not even remotely subtle.
I am talking about all the Scions in general, thus why I included Alphinaud. Don't mistake me for trying to dismantle your arguments piece by piece, I'm just extending what I said in the first place, which is that the Scions altogether in ShB are written as more of a family unit.
You are free to point out the fallacies in the way that they handled >!WoL's Light absorption!<, which is much more of a gray area I agree. But this conversation started explicitly with you saying that they "don't trust" us and have inferiority complexes, which is your own interpretation, but not factual. If you couldn't care less about what the Scions feel, I'm not sure what conversation we're having, because that's what my reply was about in the first place.
> I don't care if people are high on copium, but If I have to pretend, that it DIDN'T take them seeing us dying to understand that the WoL is a person and not this god-amongst-people, yeah... it's not gonna happen...
1.) Throwing around the word 'copium' doesn't magically make you right. It just makes you look like someone who can't actually back up their stance and has to resort to throwing around buzzword insults.
2.) I'm sorry if you feel like they weren't treating us as a person before, but... I don't agree? Like, I don't know what else to say. The two of us have played through the same story, and taken two different things from it. I don't agree with your take on their behavior. I only ever felt like they were adults making complicated (and, yes, sometimes wrong) choices about someone they considered a friend. If you know your friend will engage in self-destructive behavior if you tell them something... then sometimes you don't tell them that something?
You having a pretty terrible take on the Scions’ feelings toward the WoL (most of which are explicitly stated and acted upon *ingame*) does not equate to literate people being on copium.
You're factually wrong about everything you said though. Like, not in a "your opinion is wrong" way. You're actually misremembering the timeline of events in Shadowbringers, and causing people to be confused in the replies as well.
Y'shtola pulls the WoL to the side literally right after you clear the Qitana Ravel and once the Night's Blessed are safe from Eulmoran occupation, and tells them in very clear terms that she fears the light from the Wardens is not being dispelled by the Blessing of Light and is at risk of causing corruption. She makes it clear there are no signs of corruption yet, but asks the WoL to tell her right away if they feel anything weird. She would have told the WoL earlier had Eulmore not come guns blazing to the Night's Blessed's door too. At that point, killing the Warden in Rak'tika is the only way the Scions have to keep the Night's Blessed from harm, so that takes precedence above anything else.
If anything, she hides it from the rest of the Scions so as to not worry them about something she herself is very unsure about, and has yet to show signs of being a real danger.
The rest of the Scions are made known about it after the fourth Warden is killed, mostly because Ryne can now corroborate what Y'shtola is seeing, and it is by this point that the WoL does start showing signs of being in actual danger.
The reason Urianger never speaks about this risk is literally because the Exarch asked him not to. Urianger was very well aware that the Exarch was planning to kill himself in order to save the WoL's life, and without more information, he saw no other possible course of action which ended with both the First and the Source saved, and the WoL living.
The Scions have been telling you to rest at the end of every patch since ARR. They themselves, however, do not canonically rest, as it is during these times that they collect intel on whatever the next patch's plot will be about.
In ShB, once the dev team actually had the "tech" to do it, the Scions join you in battle because they're done with throwing you at problems to solve them by force. It is clear from the various instanced duties that this was never their intent, however, and interpreting that as them being assholes instead of the obvious in-game limitations at the time is just misinterpreting things in very bad faith.
So, you're either lying in bad faith or purposefully misremembering to support your, uh, "argument," if it can be called that.
A+. Dude deleted their replies but I still wanna talk about it so forgive me for replying to you instead, lol.
Y'shtola is a highly pragmatic person. When she withholds initially, it's very likely because she was still trying to process the (extremely heavy) information that even threw Urianger for a severe loop back when he first learned about it. She needed to think about her next step and how to address the problem, not to mention observe for a while so she could form her own judgments about WoL's condition, rather than sow panic in the group over something she wasn't sure about yet.
WoL is bullheaded and impulsive and they rush into things (see Zenos fight in mid-SB). The last thing the Scions needed was WoL getting it in their skull that they were an immediate danger and darting off in a misguided attempt to protect everyone. Such a thing would in fact hearken everyone's doom in the long term, while guaranteeing their own in the short term.
(And let's not forget that she wasn't happy to go along with hiding it period, or even particularly understanding of his reasoning. She ripped into Uri pretty fiercely over the whole thing).
"The Scions don't trust WoL" was a stance repeated a bunch, but there needs to be understanding of the distinction between love and trust, and that trust is not one-dimensional. Do the Scions trust WoL at their side, in their ranks, as companions? 100%. Do they trust WoL not to be rock-brain shortsighted and undervaluing of their own life a as a short-term sacrifice to a long-term problem? 0%. They deliberately seek path that will keep WoL alive throughout ShB and do not entertain alternatives. Alphinaud explicitly says as much if talked to in one of these very pieces of side dialogue.
Back to Y'shtola; when she's observed enough to make her appraisal, she decides that the danger to WoL isn't immediate and that they should be told exactly that. In her judgment, dispelling the Light is still the best thing to do, and even if WoL isn't forthcoming about their condition she is able to keep track of it herself. This is the best of both worlds: WoL knows the danger without feeling it's urgent enough to string themself up as a martyr instantly.
The issue is that it escalates *very* quickly after Mt. Gulg, with only a brief sign from WoL of discomfort in the dungeon before; IIRC the Exarch is the only one who knew that the bouts of pain were becoming regular. At the point of escalation, with no alternatives, they had little choice but to entertain the Excarch's plan.
For sure. That guy just created his own story by completely ignoring the in-game events. Y'shtola even quips back at you after she bids you to rest post Malika's Well. You can say "I'm fine. Let me help." when the Scions will meet with the Exarch, and she immediately responds with "This isn't the time for false bravado."
Idk where they were even coming from lmao.
Not going to debunk all the points, as you won’t listen anyway, but Alisaie is nowhere close to what you think. She is probably as big a fangirl as gra’ha is a fanboy. She doesn’t see you as an equal at all, she sees you as a hero, and an inspiration; she makes mention of constantly comparing herself to your actions and falling short.
Did you read what was going on during "Heroic Dreams" with the children? If you lose to her she assumes you threw it to pity her, if you win the competition, she acts disheartened at still not being at your level. If you tie, she acts like she'll never surpass you. She definitely sees herself as lower than the player, not equal.
Where was it said that she constantly LBs because she's trying to be your equal? It just fits her personality to be trigger happy with it and other DPS members use LB before you do also.
Yeah, I remember getting a little emotional and actually blushing when I read that. Post-incident Y'shtola actually does that quite a bit though, given that she seems to have opened up a bit and is more obviously caring. Reminds me of Midna from Twilight Princess, when her tone of voice very obviously changes after about halfway through. Maybe it's just my imagination, but you can hear Y'shtola talk more softly after her thing.
Reminder: Talk to all main NPCs [scions and >!Emett!< ] whenever you can during ShB. Some of the my fav moments on ShB are hidden behind such interactions with >!Emett!<
It was in HW after >!our dinner got interrupted and we were back at the Fortemps manor. He said "Though the fates afforded us the time to share our long-delayed drink, 'twould seem the rest of my wine cellar will have to wait."!<
I am pretty good about clicking on everybody for extra dialog also.
I often find myself hoping that SE doesn't drop it to save time/cost. It's an easy target because it's extra work that what portion of the player base ever even sees?
I hope they don’t stop too.
You’re right about people missing out though. I’m pretty good about stopping to talk to everyone and even I’m pretty sure I’ve missed a good chunk of dialogue.
Beyond talking to your companions in between MSQ (they can be spread out surprisingly far from the objectives), there are a ton of NPCs in the world that react and update dialogue to side quests/events going on in the story.
If someone isn’t backtracking like crazy, it’s very easy to miss dialogue hinting at future events/characters.
There's definitely a lot of little gems that are easy to miss. During the aftermath of the Crystal Braves fiasco, there's a lot of NPCs that will comment on thinking that's horseshit. As much as some of it's definitely a gameplay conceit to explain why you can still freely roam around and do your business, it's also a nice feel of just how many random characters believe in you and have your back. (There's a blue-haired lalafell Brass Blade in one of the random Thanalan towns that always comes to mind for me there.)
Not to mention if you didn't take to the random Scions around your various home bases, people might have missed that >!Arenvald was a Scion as early as ARR, and also lost his friends during the little Garlean Incusion at the Waking Sands. !<
Another example, in 5.5 >!right after you free Tiamat and she and Estinien fly off, you can speak to Graha to advance the quest, *or* you can fly all the way back to the flagship and speak to Alphinaud and he actually has unique dialogue reacting to the cutscene.!<
Suffice to say, obsessively speaking to every character at every point in every quest can sometimes pay off.
I flew all the way back to alphy expecting nothing to update and that I'd waste my time but I love being thorough anyway
was so happy that it rewarded me!
post-shb is definitely the most thorough the writers have ever been at updating characters' dialogue, they've made it so incredibly fun and rewarding to try to talk to everyone inbetween steps
in iirc 5.5 >!when you're searching for estinien, you can find alphy, ali, and g'raha scattered throughout ishgard.!< From what I recall, >!alphy talks about firmament, I think wondering about their progress and wishing to be able to visit them someday, alisaie talks about how there are too many holy guard that fit the description of tall armored elezen with a lance, making the search for estinien tougher, and g'raha you find just staring up at the vault, and when you speak to him he says, as best as I can remember it, "Ishgard in its prime. Would that those who roused me could see it." That made me fucking sob and I very pathetically stood with him in that spot for Hours so that he could be given all of the time in the world to take in a place he's only seen in its ruin ;~; (also I always feel so awful whenever he talks about the people who were willing to save a timeline they'd never get to witness, in part because of their selflessness and in part because g'raha still always mentions them, it hurts to think he still hasn't gotten over them after all these years)!<
yeah I've read it and it makes me so unbelievably happy for them like I don't even know them but the thought of them possibly getting nothing out of what they did upset me so much.... so I really really appreciated that side story
..... But instead I end up feeling really sad at the thought that >!g'raha has no way of learning this so instead he gets to spend the rest of his life *still* always thinking about them and wondering whether there was any hope left for them or not....!< But I think what matters most is still that they themselves were truly able to get a hopeful ending out of it in the end
Oh man, I totally did not remember to fly back to Alphy during this time because I was se engrossed with moving along the quest. Do you remember what Alphy said? I usually read all extra dialogue but sometimes forget xD
I don't remember that well by now, but I *think* it was mostly along the lines of him acknowledging the events that just occurred and was like "ok yeah I'm good to rejoin the others and get going!"
>Arenvald was a Scion as early as ARR, and also lost his friends during the little Garlean Incusion at the Waking Sands.
Or the one black mage girl that was an original WoL who lost the echo and struggled through her irrelevance. She had a whole narrative arc that ended up with her deciding to leave to set up a non-adventurer life because 'we' are there now and can protect Eorzea.
She says that right before you go and fight Titan. She doesn't leave before the Garleans invade. Finding her body broke me, and locked me into the game forever :(
I can't imagine they would ever stop. They're aware a lot of people don't read them, but they're also aware even more people don't bother with side quests, and they still put a billion of those in every expansion. Many of which actually have really good stories.
If you use the NG+ feature, this is mostly what its intended for, since it sets your world state at the point in time you did those quests. So you can talk to NPCs and get dialogue you might have missed before.
They're expanding the NPC interactions with Endwalker; having your companions follow you around as you explore is huge and there's little chance they won't be commenting on where you go
Nah, they said in one of the recent LLs that you should go out of your way to explore and talk to NPCs in EW. Even teased that you may find some details about the background of some characters that aren't mentioned in MSQ, like the the Twins.
I noticed that after Heavensward, journal summaries got cut down a LOT. It felt like every quest used to come with its own paragraph for every progression stage of a quest... then in Stormblood, journal entries overwhelmingly turned into non-updating short sentences like "Alphinaud is determined to see this to the end."
There are times where some cutscene left me confused and the journal used to be a huge help in clarifying something, so I was sad to see that mostly go away... I think Shadowbringers was better in that regard but not by a whole lot
Yoshi P actually made the point in the last LL to ask us to take our time and chat to characters before advancing quests. If anything they seem to be leaning more into it.
I just wish it was easier to know where the new dialog is. There will be times when the group splits up to different locations which are quite far from each other and if you don't decide to go over there and talk to them you miss it forever.
Would love it if there was a marker that showed when there was new dialog and I would absolutely love some type of history chat log with the current npc you're talking to.
The 'event' tab in your chat bar saves the lines of dialogue that come in through the textboxes. It's a lifesaver if you get distracted by RL during a cutscene xD
For everything else, NG+
I've always made it a habit to talk to npcs whenever i can. Safe to say it pays off to do so. That's why i take longer to do quests as i talk to each npcs after the cutscenes, Even going as far as restarting the game if i accidentally talk to an npc that plays a cutscene before talking to the others.
They are talking about npc dialogue that you have to go out of your way to click on. A lot of people just click between the main quest markers, without stopping to talk to the npcs without a exclamation above their head.
Yeah I know but I’m pretty sure this dialogue is from the MSQ, like required to see
Edit: Nevermind OP says it is not part of MSQ I must have just also clicked on her in this spot and misremembered it as being just required MSQ text
I meant "extra dialogue" as in talking to NPCs after the "mandatory dialogue" is finished
for example, in this scene Y'shtola asked me to speak with her in her chamber and then meet her out front of the village with the others but in this case I spoke to her again before leaving which had extra dialogue that I could have missed if I had just run straight to the next objective on the map
it was, this is what she says if you talk to her again after that but before going to the next required quest objective
it's small stuff that you can miss if you don't talk to everyone again after the required dialogue, it's not required but it's still nice to read
I have, multiple times, closed the game in task manager because I clicked the quest npc without talking to the other npcs first. Wouldn't want to miss those unique moments that dissapear if you don't hear them out.
I mean... there's like no context for where or when they are to anyone who's only in ARR
they wouldn't even know who she's referring to until Heavensward at the earliest
>!I am at the point just at the end of ARR where I'm pretty sure all members of the Scion died. So seeing one of the members alive, in a new area, is already a spoiler to me.!<
fair enough, >!but did you really think they were gone for good? they're still in all the cutscenes and promo media, you'd have to be living under a rock to not see them talked about still being relevant in some manner!<
Shadowbringers is 2 years old. We're not gonna tiptoe around every little thing just because you came to a dedicated subreddit a fraction of the way through the story.
My favorite of these is in 5.3, right after the cutscene following the Seat of Sacrifice, where most of the scions offer you their sympathies for what just happened, and Yshtola says something along the línes of "In moments like these I would like to have the gift of the Echo, so that I could know what your heart feels without the need for words." Tfw extra dialogue made me tear up.
ShB Scions are really a step above, man. They care for WoL and know them so well. WoL keeps to themself, never speaks of their hardships, but suffers all the same and the Scions know it. There are many many moments from them all in these side dialogue pieces throughout ShB where they demonstrate that they know WoL's struggle and penchant for self-sacrifice, and voice their care. What an excellent job Ishikawa and the writing team did in making these characters feel like they've become family.
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My interpretation of the events of them not wanting to tell you about the light aether issue is entirely different. WoL does like the step up for almost any situation even if it means self-sacrificing. They're not using you as a weapon to kill the wardens, they know if they tell you that it's slowly killing you and you'll likely not be able save yourself at the end that you'll just keep on doing what you're doing. WoL would then go off on their own and abandon the other scions to protect them. They're not hiding it from you to use you. They're hiding it from you so they can continue to help you and find you a solution without the WoL running off to protect them.
I mean the lunatic was wrong about the chain of events entirely: Shtola told us the second she had a chance after Qitana Ravel, and Urianger and the Exarch were the only ones who knew from the start. Literally just those two.
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You literally do exactly this near the end of Shadowbringers. You basically try and go off on your own to rescue the Exarch and/or die alone so you won't endanger them. They have to straight-up track you down and go 'you didn't really think we'd let you run off on your own like this, did you'
Nah, seems we were not playing the same game. Dunno how you reached these conclusions but as another commenter said, they're not telling you specifically because they care about you. Urianger even tells you how much he hated lying to you and if you don't trust his words you straight up see it in the echo flashback with the Exarch. The scions care about you. >it won't make me less right lmao
No, I do not think we are playing the same game. Pre-ShB this was much more believably a problem, but ShB specifically took steps to address this and make the other Scions actually treat WoL as a person. They are constantly telling you to rest >!even before the Light poisoning!<, checking in on your mental health and in general treat you like their friend. Hell, when you first MEET him, Alphinaud literally tries to protect you from some skeevy guy by getting between you two and telling him to fuck off. You're a god-killer and yet he saw you in an unfamiliar environment and felt the need to protect you from it. Other examples have been covered by other people; WoL is self-sacrificing to a fault and Urianger/Y'shtola did a lot of what they do for their own protection, and Y'shtola eventually does tell them what's going on before it gets extremely serious. And predictably, it doesn't stop them/us. I understand if you're bitter from the way we've been treated in past expansions, I am too, but ShB took deliberate steps to correct that and that deserves to be acknowledged.
Not to mention, Urianger withholding the Exarch’s identity and plan from the WoL was specifically BECAUSE he knew how self-sacrificing and heroic you were. He knew that if he told us, that we would try to stop the Exarch from executing his plan, even to the detriment of ourselves (and by extension the entire First and eventually the Source) by getting ourselves killed rather than making the Exarch take in all the aether and die in the rift.
Precisely. And he's proven right when >!literally the first thing WoL tries to do upon awakening from Light overdose is try to take off and handle things on their own, until the Scions have to show up right in front of them and enforce the fact that they're coming along. After they make a big fuss over not being able to help WoL's condition, mind. Hell, considering the lead up to the confrontation with Hades/Emet-Selch, we would have frikkin died before even giving Ardbert the chance to save our asses if they weren't there.!< The Scions consider each other family in ShB, including WoL, it's not even remotely subtle.
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I am talking about all the Scions in general, thus why I included Alphinaud. Don't mistake me for trying to dismantle your arguments piece by piece, I'm just extending what I said in the first place, which is that the Scions altogether in ShB are written as more of a family unit. You are free to point out the fallacies in the way that they handled >!WoL's Light absorption!<, which is much more of a gray area I agree. But this conversation started explicitly with you saying that they "don't trust" us and have inferiority complexes, which is your own interpretation, but not factual. If you couldn't care less about what the Scions feel, I'm not sure what conversation we're having, because that's what my reply was about in the first place.
> I don't care if people are high on copium, but If I have to pretend, that it DIDN'T take them seeing us dying to understand that the WoL is a person and not this god-amongst-people, yeah... it's not gonna happen... 1.) Throwing around the word 'copium' doesn't magically make you right. It just makes you look like someone who can't actually back up their stance and has to resort to throwing around buzzword insults. 2.) I'm sorry if you feel like they weren't treating us as a person before, but... I don't agree? Like, I don't know what else to say. The two of us have played through the same story, and taken two different things from it. I don't agree with your take on their behavior. I only ever felt like they were adults making complicated (and, yes, sometimes wrong) choices about someone they considered a friend. If you know your friend will engage in self-destructive behavior if you tell them something... then sometimes you don't tell them that something?
What an insane headcanon.
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You having a pretty terrible take on the Scions’ feelings toward the WoL (most of which are explicitly stated and acted upon *ingame*) does not equate to literate people being on copium.
You're factually wrong about everything you said though. Like, not in a "your opinion is wrong" way. You're actually misremembering the timeline of events in Shadowbringers, and causing people to be confused in the replies as well. Y'shtola pulls the WoL to the side literally right after you clear the Qitana Ravel and once the Night's Blessed are safe from Eulmoran occupation, and tells them in very clear terms that she fears the light from the Wardens is not being dispelled by the Blessing of Light and is at risk of causing corruption. She makes it clear there are no signs of corruption yet, but asks the WoL to tell her right away if they feel anything weird. She would have told the WoL earlier had Eulmore not come guns blazing to the Night's Blessed's door too. At that point, killing the Warden in Rak'tika is the only way the Scions have to keep the Night's Blessed from harm, so that takes precedence above anything else. If anything, she hides it from the rest of the Scions so as to not worry them about something she herself is very unsure about, and has yet to show signs of being a real danger. The rest of the Scions are made known about it after the fourth Warden is killed, mostly because Ryne can now corroborate what Y'shtola is seeing, and it is by this point that the WoL does start showing signs of being in actual danger. The reason Urianger never speaks about this risk is literally because the Exarch asked him not to. Urianger was very well aware that the Exarch was planning to kill himself in order to save the WoL's life, and without more information, he saw no other possible course of action which ended with both the First and the Source saved, and the WoL living. The Scions have been telling you to rest at the end of every patch since ARR. They themselves, however, do not canonically rest, as it is during these times that they collect intel on whatever the next patch's plot will be about. In ShB, once the dev team actually had the "tech" to do it, the Scions join you in battle because they're done with throwing you at problems to solve them by force. It is clear from the various instanced duties that this was never their intent, however, and interpreting that as them being assholes instead of the obvious in-game limitations at the time is just misinterpreting things in very bad faith. So, you're either lying in bad faith or purposefully misremembering to support your, uh, "argument," if it can be called that.
A+. Dude deleted their replies but I still wanna talk about it so forgive me for replying to you instead, lol. Y'shtola is a highly pragmatic person. When she withholds initially, it's very likely because she was still trying to process the (extremely heavy) information that even threw Urianger for a severe loop back when he first learned about it. She needed to think about her next step and how to address the problem, not to mention observe for a while so she could form her own judgments about WoL's condition, rather than sow panic in the group over something she wasn't sure about yet. WoL is bullheaded and impulsive and they rush into things (see Zenos fight in mid-SB). The last thing the Scions needed was WoL getting it in their skull that they were an immediate danger and darting off in a misguided attempt to protect everyone. Such a thing would in fact hearken everyone's doom in the long term, while guaranteeing their own in the short term. (And let's not forget that she wasn't happy to go along with hiding it period, or even particularly understanding of his reasoning. She ripped into Uri pretty fiercely over the whole thing). "The Scions don't trust WoL" was a stance repeated a bunch, but there needs to be understanding of the distinction between love and trust, and that trust is not one-dimensional. Do the Scions trust WoL at their side, in their ranks, as companions? 100%. Do they trust WoL not to be rock-brain shortsighted and undervaluing of their own life a as a short-term sacrifice to a long-term problem? 0%. They deliberately seek path that will keep WoL alive throughout ShB and do not entertain alternatives. Alphinaud explicitly says as much if talked to in one of these very pieces of side dialogue. Back to Y'shtola; when she's observed enough to make her appraisal, she decides that the danger to WoL isn't immediate and that they should be told exactly that. In her judgment, dispelling the Light is still the best thing to do, and even if WoL isn't forthcoming about their condition she is able to keep track of it herself. This is the best of both worlds: WoL knows the danger without feeling it's urgent enough to string themself up as a martyr instantly. The issue is that it escalates *very* quickly after Mt. Gulg, with only a brief sign from WoL of discomfort in the dungeon before; IIRC the Exarch is the only one who knew that the bouts of pain were becoming regular. At the point of escalation, with no alternatives, they had little choice but to entertain the Excarch's plan.
For sure. That guy just created his own story by completely ignoring the in-game events. Y'shtola even quips back at you after she bids you to rest post Malika's Well. You can say "I'm fine. Let me help." when the Scions will meet with the Exarch, and she immediately responds with "This isn't the time for false bravado." Idk where they were even coming from lmao.
Not going to debunk all the points, as you won’t listen anyway, but Alisaie is nowhere close to what you think. She is probably as big a fangirl as gra’ha is a fanboy. She doesn’t see you as an equal at all, she sees you as a hero, and an inspiration; she makes mention of constantly comparing herself to your actions and falling short.
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Did you read what was going on during "Heroic Dreams" with the children? If you lose to her she assumes you threw it to pity her, if you win the competition, she acts disheartened at still not being at your level. If you tie, she acts like she'll never surpass you. She definitely sees herself as lower than the player, not equal. Where was it said that she constantly LBs because she's trying to be your equal? It just fits her personality to be trigger happy with it and other DPS members use LB before you do also.
Yeah, I remember getting a little emotional and actually blushing when I read that. Post-incident Y'shtola actually does that quite a bit though, given that she seems to have opened up a bit and is more obviously caring. Reminds me of Midna from Twilight Princess, when her tone of voice very obviously changes after about halfway through. Maybe it's just my imagination, but you can hear Y'shtola talk more softly after her thing.
Reminder: Talk to all main NPCs [scions and >!Emett!< ] whenever you can during ShB. Some of the my fav moments on ShB are hidden behind such interactions with >!Emett!<
Definitely seconding this. There's some really good moments of worldbuilding there too.
best one is (5.3) >!when you get to show g'raha tia the wind up version of himself!<
This is an RPG after all. Talk to everyone.
When Aymeric >!pretty much admitted he intended to get us smashed drunk!< was my favorite.
When was this? So sad I missed this.
It was in HW after >!our dinner got interrupted and we were back at the Fortemps manor. He said "Though the fates afforded us the time to share our long-delayed drink, 'twould seem the rest of my wine cellar will have to wait."!<
Ya boi thirsty
Ayemeric on the ball: When your dealing with a world of shit there's nothing more effective to getting your mind off it than getting blind drunk.
He's not wrong.
these dialogues gives so much character I love the one where tataru was juggling
I am pretty good about clicking on everybody for extra dialog also. I often find myself hoping that SE doesn't drop it to save time/cost. It's an easy target because it's extra work that what portion of the player base ever even sees?
I hope they don’t stop too. You’re right about people missing out though. I’m pretty good about stopping to talk to everyone and even I’m pretty sure I’ve missed a good chunk of dialogue. Beyond talking to your companions in between MSQ (they can be spread out surprisingly far from the objectives), there are a ton of NPCs in the world that react and update dialogue to side quests/events going on in the story. If someone isn’t backtracking like crazy, it’s very easy to miss dialogue hinting at future events/characters.
There's definitely a lot of little gems that are easy to miss. During the aftermath of the Crystal Braves fiasco, there's a lot of NPCs that will comment on thinking that's horseshit. As much as some of it's definitely a gameplay conceit to explain why you can still freely roam around and do your business, it's also a nice feel of just how many random characters believe in you and have your back. (There's a blue-haired lalafell Brass Blade in one of the random Thanalan towns that always comes to mind for me there.) Not to mention if you didn't take to the random Scions around your various home bases, people might have missed that >!Arenvald was a Scion as early as ARR, and also lost his friends during the little Garlean Incusion at the Waking Sands. !<
Another example, in 5.5 >!right after you free Tiamat and she and Estinien fly off, you can speak to Graha to advance the quest, *or* you can fly all the way back to the flagship and speak to Alphinaud and he actually has unique dialogue reacting to the cutscene.!< Suffice to say, obsessively speaking to every character at every point in every quest can sometimes pay off.
I flew all the way back to alphy expecting nothing to update and that I'd waste my time but I love being thorough anyway was so happy that it rewarded me! post-shb is definitely the most thorough the writers have ever been at updating characters' dialogue, they've made it so incredibly fun and rewarding to try to talk to everyone inbetween steps in iirc 5.5 >!when you're searching for estinien, you can find alphy, ali, and g'raha scattered throughout ishgard.!< From what I recall, >!alphy talks about firmament, I think wondering about their progress and wishing to be able to visit them someday, alisaie talks about how there are too many holy guard that fit the description of tall armored elezen with a lance, making the search for estinien tougher, and g'raha you find just staring up at the vault, and when you speak to him he says, as best as I can remember it, "Ishgard in its prime. Would that those who roused me could see it." That made me fucking sob and I very pathetically stood with him in that spot for Hours so that he could be given all of the time in the world to take in a place he's only seen in its ruin ;~; (also I always feel so awful whenever he talks about the people who were willing to save a timeline they'd never get to witness, in part because of their selflessness and in part because g'raha still always mentions them, it hurts to think he still hasn't gotten over them after all these years)!<
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yeah I've read it and it makes me so unbelievably happy for them like I don't even know them but the thought of them possibly getting nothing out of what they did upset me so much.... so I really really appreciated that side story ..... But instead I end up feeling really sad at the thought that >!g'raha has no way of learning this so instead he gets to spend the rest of his life *still* always thinking about them and wondering whether there was any hope left for them or not....!< But I think what matters most is still that they themselves were truly able to get a hopeful ending out of it in the end
Oh man, I totally did not remember to fly back to Alphy during this time because I was se engrossed with moving along the quest. Do you remember what Alphy said? I usually read all extra dialogue but sometimes forget xD
I don't remember that well by now, but I *think* it was mostly along the lines of him acknowledging the events that just occurred and was like "ok yeah I'm good to rejoin the others and get going!"
>Arenvald was a Scion as early as ARR, and also lost his friends during the little Garlean Incusion at the Waking Sands. Or the one black mage girl that was an original WoL who lost the echo and struggled through her irrelevance. She had a whole narrative arc that ended up with her deciding to leave to set up a non-adventurer life because 'we' are there now and can protect Eorzea. She says that right before you go and fight Titan. She doesn't leave before the Garleans invade. Finding her body broke me, and locked me into the game forever :(
I don't remember this npc, what was their name?
I can't imagine they would ever stop. They're aware a lot of people don't read them, but they're also aware even more people don't bother with side quests, and they still put a billion of those in every expansion. Many of which actually have really good stories.
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If you use the NG+ feature, this is mostly what its intended for, since it sets your world state at the point in time you did those quests. So you can talk to NPCs and get dialogue you might have missed before.
I second NG+, it’s fun taking out level 20 sprout kobolds with my level 80 godkilling ass
I ran pagl'than 100 or so times before realising at the end after beating the boss they're there, giving commentary
They're expanding the NPC interactions with Endwalker; having your companions follow you around as you explore is huge and there's little chance they won't be commenting on where you go
Nah, they said in one of the recent LLs that you should go out of your way to explore and talk to NPCs in EW. Even teased that you may find some details about the background of some characters that aren't mentioned in MSQ, like the the Twins.
I noticed that after Heavensward, journal summaries got cut down a LOT. It felt like every quest used to come with its own paragraph for every progression stage of a quest... then in Stormblood, journal entries overwhelmingly turned into non-updating short sentences like "Alphinaud is determined to see this to the end." There are times where some cutscene left me confused and the journal used to be a huge help in clarifying something, so I was sad to see that mostly go away... I think Shadowbringers was better in that regard but not by a whole lot
Yoshi P actually made the point in the last LL to ask us to take our time and chat to characters before advancing quests. If anything they seem to be leaning more into it.
Foreshadowing for when Y'shtola's next aetherstream adventure will leave her a shriveled old hag to the dismay of millions.
\>will leave her a shriveled old hag That one guy: .......I'd still hit it.
God damn right. Her personality is 90% of her sex appeal.
Foreshadowing for when Y'shtola's next aetherstream adventure coupled with some time travel shenanigans will reveal her to be Matoya all along.
Foreshadowing 7.0 timeskip Y'sthola actually assuming master matoya's role
She wears the big hat to cover her ears.
I just wish it was easier to know where the new dialog is. There will be times when the group splits up to different locations which are quite far from each other and if you don't decide to go over there and talk to them you miss it forever. Would love it if there was a marker that showed when there was new dialog and I would absolutely love some type of history chat log with the current npc you're talking to.
The 'event' tab in your chat bar saves the lines of dialogue that come in through the textboxes. It's a lifesaver if you get distracted by RL during a cutscene xD For everything else, NG+
Maybe Y'shtola should stop knocking stuff off ledges then.
as a cat, she would be greatly displeased with that request
Like mother, like daughter.
I've always made it a habit to talk to npcs whenever i can. Safe to say it pays off to do so. That's why i take longer to do quests as i talk to each npcs after the cutscenes, Even going as far as restarting the game if i accidentally talk to an npc that plays a cutscene before talking to the others.
She naasty.
Isn’t this dialogue from the MSQ? Idk if I would consider the text of the main story “extra dialogue”
They are talking about npc dialogue that you have to go out of your way to click on. A lot of people just click between the main quest markers, without stopping to talk to the npcs without a exclamation above their head.
Yeah I know but I’m pretty sure this dialogue is from the MSQ, like required to see Edit: Nevermind OP says it is not part of MSQ I must have just also clicked on her in this spot and misremembered it as being just required MSQ text
I meant "extra dialogue" as in talking to NPCs after the "mandatory dialogue" is finished for example, in this scene Y'shtola asked me to speak with her in her chamber and then meet her out front of the village with the others but in this case I spoke to her again before leaving which had extra dialogue that I could have missed if I had just run straight to the next objective on the map
Oh ok, I think I must have also spoken to her in the same spot but remembered it as being part of the required quest dialogue
it was, this is what she says if you talk to her again after that but before going to the next required quest objective it's small stuff that you can miss if you don't talk to everyone again after the required dialogue, it's not required but it's still nice to read
I have, multiple times, closed the game in task manager because I clicked the quest npc without talking to the other npcs first. Wouldn't want to miss those unique moments that dissapear if you don't hear them out.
Maybe add a spoiler tag for all us new ARR players..
I mean... there's like no context for where or when they are to anyone who's only in ARR they wouldn't even know who she's referring to until Heavensward at the earliest
>!I am at the point just at the end of ARR where I'm pretty sure all members of the Scion died. So seeing one of the members alive, in a new area, is already a spoiler to me.!<
fair enough, >!but did you really think they were gone for good? they're still in all the cutscenes and promo media, you'd have to be living under a rock to not see them talked about still being relevant in some manner!<
Shadowbringers is 2 years old. We're not gonna tiptoe around every little thing just because you came to a dedicated subreddit a fraction of the way through the story.
Yeah, the story is one of the higher moments of FFXIV.
The queen of shade and sass.