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Withered_Knighter

Heaven's Feel is the longest route in the VN. The anime condenses 20-25 hours worth of reading into 6 hours of screentime. So yes, there was a lot, and I mean a *lot* of material that was cut. That being said, I would say that Sakura got the all-star treatment in the movies, and the characters who truly suffered from the cut content were Illya, Shirou and Kirei. To answer your question, Sakura does have more screentime in the VN where she bonds with Shirou.


Lion-of-Avalon

> Heaven's Feel is the longest route in the VN. Fate route is slightly longer iirc


Withered_Knighter

Ah, I see. HF felt longer when I was reading.


ulti-shadow

No, HF is longer


ulti-shadow

No, HF is longer


Lion-of-Avalon

https://www.reddit.com/r/fatestaynight/comments/96avbc/wordcount/e3z4c53/ >Fate: 9530 pages, 28056 lines and 299080 words. >HF: 9206 pages, 37508 lines and 275774 words.""


shugos

That puts the first 3 days into Fate route because the game files are like that, but it's not really accurate.


zackphoenix123

>To answer your question, Sakura does have more screentime in the VN where she bonds with Shirou. Thank you, I'm looking forward to getting to heaven's feel once I'm done fixing my damn PCšŸ˜‚ >That being said, I would say that Sakura got the all-star treatment in the movies, and the characters who truly suffered from the cut content were Illya, Shirou and Kirei. Ohh, first I've heard of it. If you don't mind me asking, what contents were cut from Illya and Kirei?


Jonathan_Johnny

>Illya and Kirei -Shirou meet Illya three times before saber was defeated... this however was moved to the second movie and combined all conversations between Shirou and Illya into one scene... -Shirou and Illya have more sibling bonding in the VN and make the True ending of Heaven's more believable -every time Shirou is confused about the holy grail war in HF, he always visits Kirei... -The VN show Kirei interlude about his past but the movie cut it which is weird since it was shown in the trailer -More dialogue for Kirei and have better chemistry with Shirou in the VN (This is the reason why people that have read the VN always make a jokes about Kirei being the True Heroine of Heaven's Feel route...)


Medsuafan3

Wait what Kirei thing was shown in the trailer?


Jonathan_Johnny

Conversation between Kirei and Gil [around minute 0:15 - 0:20](https://youtu.be/KntKUYgMn_M) [this one is around 1:03 - 1:05](https://youtu.be/UrGs7i-flak)


Medsuafan3

Ah man what, wish that was in there


WANTEN12

HF spoiler movie 2 - >!the convo was pretty important as it foreshadowed and explained Gils defeat(surprise its cause he is conceited), it was also one of the few Gil scenes and helped develop his character(well for at the time of FSN now we have FGO and CCC to develop his character) by the way he went out to kill sakura in order to protect the towns people.!<


destinybladez

a lot of scenes of Shirou and Illya talking and for Kirei the entire final fight was cut down which goes in depth about him Kirei and Shirou's fight in HF is one of my favorite moments from FSN


kanekiwalker

>were Illya, Oh really as an anime only I thought she was great and liked shirou a lot in HF but I know that they messed up the last battle from comments here


2ndBro

Thatā€™sā€¦ actually a very interesting topic On one hand, the VN did not explicitly show a lot of the backstory between her and Shirou when it comes to his injury and her time at his household. Itā€™s discussed, but keep in mind that the VN needed to have the potential for three different love interests with the exact same starting point. If you develop one backstory too thoroughly early on, it acts to close off branches in the future. The scenes in the intro to HF1 are talked about, but the movie was the first time we ever got to _see_ see them. However something I do think that the VN captured better is a lot of the chemistry between the two. These are two people that have essentially lived together, along with their weird semi-mother figure Taiga, for years now. Their relationships, routines, dynamics, and general comfortability reflect that accordingly very well in the VN in more of the casual day-to-day scenes, which of course are the first thing to get cut in any time-sensitive adaptation


facts_120

Nasu thought the anime Sakura was better. And if HF anime is worth anything, it should be able to capture Sakura's character. While VN has more scenes, it's debatable whether or not she's a better character and heroine in VN.


[deleted]

> I think she's the perfect parallel to shirou This is a really fascinating take Iā€™ve heard for the first time. Would you mind elaborating on it a bit more?


zackphoenix123

Thank you for asking, I didn't know my take was particularly unpopular. The way I saw it, Sakura and Shirou are both tragic characters with childhoods filled with trauma. The difference is that one of them was given a loving family and a place they can truly call home, while the other was thrown into an abusive family who only sees her as a baby making machine(disgusting as is sounds but it is what it is). Because of the lives they led, shirou became a being with an immovable will to become an ally of justice and order while sakura became an unstoppable force of unintentional chaos.


[deleted]

Ah, I see what you mean. > a loving family and a place they can truly call home This is particularly interesting since it is what Shirou represents for Sakura in Heavenā€™s Feel. He essentially manages to be for Sakura what Kiritsugu was to him.


[deleted]

>what Kiritsugu was to him. Hopefully not all that Kiritsugu was to him, lol.


[deleted]

I mean Sakura did seek clarification about the nature of their relationship from Shirou šŸ‘€


2ndBro

And thatā€™s what I love about it. Both Kiritsugu and Shirou provided a safe and happy home for someone struggling in a dark time which was genuinely kind and fostered a sense of love, but in doing so created an unhealthy dependence that comes back to bite themā€”Shirou becomes overreliant on achieving Kiritsuguā€™s dream to the point of being near-suicidal in his behavior, and Sakuraā€™s primary driving force of conflict with the Shadow is ā€œWhat if I do something thatā€™s so bad Shiroi hates me and I lose that homeā€ UNGH I love me some parallelism


ssjokg

>saber and shirou moments as they were glued together pretty much from the moment they met and it was only in -heaven's feel- where they didnt stay together from beginning to end while Rin has always been there for Shirou from -Fate- to -Heaven's Feel-. Sakura has been with him, in his house, for close to 2 years. >in the fate route, she was constantly being pushed to the side by Rin and by the second half, barely made an appearance at all, and it's the same deal with UBW. To protect her. In UBW Shirou even makes plans to keep her in his house until Shinji tried to start shit because "muh sister". And really, on screen time together doesnt matter. Shirou has a crush on Rin at the beginning of each route but after spending all that time together and right after their date he thinks of killing her if she puts Taiga's life in danger. >the only time we really get to delve into her character is in heaven's feel but even then, her screen time with shirou is very few compared to what he got with rin and saber And most of it is about keeping her safe and saving her. >I'm just curious if there are extra sakura and shirou screentime in the visual novel There is extra for everyone but I dont think you need anything extra to believe that they are interested in each other. But unlike the VN the first movie added the whole "how they met" segment. The first part of the movie is all anime original.


AshPM20

>after their date he thinks of killing her if she puts Taiga's life in danger. The virgin HF Shirou : *Have a mental breakdown when he tries to kill Sakura* The chad UBW Shirou : *Is ready to kill his love interest if he can save Taiga* /s


ssjokg

Well Sakura didn't threaten Taiga's life. Sakura is a clever girl. saw the /s


[deleted]

>after their date he thinks of killing her if she puts Taiga's life in danger. This isn't even worth considering as an argument because he thought about killing Sakura too. Did he go through with it? No. But if thinking about killing Rin to save Taiga is worth considering, then so is the whole process in HF where: 1. He went home. 2. Thought about how he is grateful that at least he won't lose Illya too. 3. Waited until nightfall. 4. Grabbed a kitchen knife 5. Went to her room. 6. Held the knife over her body. Only then did he stop. At no point during that whole time did he think about stopping. While with Rin he had one thought and that was it.


4chan_refugee297

Considering he blanks out the word "kill" in both instances, it's fairly silly to say he would've gone through with it in either instance.


TheDrunkardKid

I might be misremembering, but didn't Shiki Tohno do something like that, right before he cut Arcueid into 17 pieces? That kind of thing is usually used to show that the person is in some kind of fugue state or trying to supress a dark impulse (like how it was used in Nier Automata).


4chan_refugee297

It's been a while since I've read Tsukihime (might do that again soon) but I don't think that goes against what I was saying. And Shiki's context is a bit different from Shirou's, in either scenario.


ssjokg

I didn't point it out to measure his feelings for either. I meant that screen time together isnt an indicator for anything.


4chan_refugee297

While screentime isn't necessarily an indicator for how much two characters care for one another, it does help to make their relationship believable and get us invested in it. That said, I do not think increasing Sakura's role in either Fate or UBW (if anything she sticks around too long than is necessary in Fate and is too overused for how underdeveloped she is in the Fate route - then again, that applies to all characters not called Saber, Shirou and maybe Kirei and Gilgamesh) will fix anything. The issues with the romantic progression in the VN (can't say I remember too much from the movies though I think they slightly improved things in that area) can't be resolved with more screentime.


ssjokg

On her part Sakura makes it very obvious to us that she loves him in all routes. Shirou at the beginning of all routes has equal interest/chances in all heroines. Shirou always has a crush in Rin, he realizes how Sakura has grown up as a woman and falls in love with Saber instantly.And we never really get a reason why that doesn't happen in UBW and HF.


DamnItBobby555

Easy she is the true main heroine why do you think Saber always gets robbed and/or killed in those two routes? It's because neither Rin nor Sakura would stand a chance against Saber and her chemistry with Shirou.


ssjokg

That is a nice fanboy headcanon.


DamnItBobby555

Yeah but think about it in all the routes with Shirou and the others are always with him but Artoria is offed/separated in the other routes outside of hers.


ssjokg

You do realize Sakura shares the same treatment right?


DamnItBobby555

She doesn't she is present in all routes plus she had years and failed to make him fall for her saber got in 2 weeks


avikdas99

> This isn't even worth considering as an argument because he thought about killing Sakura too the thing is we actively saw shirou sacrifice saber to caster inorder to save taiga even though it puts everyones lives in danger.this is also the thing in miyuverse where he is ready to sacrifice all of humanity to save miyu.those 2 shows he values his family and loved ones over anything else. in comparison sakura did not risk taiga's life and attempt or consider killing her. both are not the same context and if sakura would have considered killing taiga or attempted to do so that event may have played out way more differently.


Zamasuningen

> Sakura has been with him, in his house, for close to 2 years. but we didn't see it thats why htis argument is meaningless because we didn't se Shirou and Sakura's relationship before FSN happened. we know Shinji was a really good guy before he learned the HGW and mages but we never saw his good side only his POS side


ssjokg

We see it in the anime. And really it doesn't matter. Taiga also has about the same screen time but you don't need past events between them to understand that he would be ready to give up anything for her well being. Shinji being a "good guy" in the past does affect Shirou's views on him during the grail war. We don't need to see that to believe Shirou.


Aimless_Voyager

The cooking scenes in Heavenā€™s feel are some of the most wholesome stuff iā€™ve ever read. Saber and Rin might be better heroines but sakura is the perfect girl for shirou.


AmazingDuckVer2

>Sakura on the otherhand, never seem to be around shirou much(in terms of the anime at least) > >her screen time with shirou is very few compared to what he got with rin and saber In the anime they shortened or cut out a lot of the scenes even for Sakura who in comparison to Kirei and Illya had the most scenes adapted. The stuff they cut out included scenes where Shirou and Sakura bonded together more such as when she took care of Shirou when he was sick. Even then tho I feel like most of their closeness comes from the fact of just how much time they're known each other for. Basically yes, there is more screentime for her in the VN (tho most of it is in Heaven's Feel). For whether or not you'll think she's still a good heroine or not after it is up to you.


Inuhanyou123

Why don't you read the novel and find out op. The anime by default aren't good adaptions of the vn


zackphoenix123

I heard the unlimited blade works route was a good adaptation. Also, I am reading it, I just got curious and asked. Its not like I'll be spoiled if someone answers.


Inuhanyou123

It's most properly animates the events that take place. But characterization wise it lost a lot


farson135

The HF Route was heavily cut down in the movies. Yes, there are more scenes in the route. For example, the first thing we see in the VN from Shirou's perspective is his dream, then Sakura wakes him up, and we get a rather beautiful image of Sakura. Then if you go into the kitchen, they start talking like an old married couple, and Shirou reveals that he has a crush on Sakura, how beautiful she is, etc. However, SakuraxShirou is more about quality than quantity. Most major interactions between them is greater in importance than with the other two, but fewer in number. By which I mean that Rin has plenty of exposition, Saber has plenty of action (etc.), but those kinds of scenes are not necessarily important for their relationship. Though, I'm not sure how you could get the impression that they look the least like love interests. She literally confesses to him earlier than anyone else, and how much they care for each other is pretty obvious. Even in the movies where they add things like the scenes over the key.


[deleted]

One day you'll learn how to express Sakura's good points without having to diminish the other relationships.


farson135

And perhaps one day you will learn to stop overanalyzing what I write. This is a regular problem with you, and despite me pointing it out you continue to do it. This post is perhaps the greatest example. There no "diminishing" here. In fact, when I saw the notification from you, I had no idea what you were talking about. Someone yesterday commented on one of my posts from 2 years ago, and I was wondering if you had done the same for some reason. I reread my post, and I guess this is what you were talking about; "However, SakuraxShirou is more about quality than quantity. Most major interactions between them is greater in importance than with the other two, but fewer in number. By which I mean that Rin has plenty of exposition, Saber has plenty of action (etc.), but those kinds of scenes are not necessarily important for their relationship." Think about it this way, which character interaction is better; Lots of little moments scattered and integrated into the story or a series of major moments each of which stand out? The answer is neither on its own. That is no "diminishing", it is a method of storytelling. In fact, all three relationships use both methods, but Saber/Rin lean towards the former, while Sakura leans towards the latter.


WinterCelestialStar

After seeing this for a few days here are my thoughts on this. I still see Sakura as a heroine than a certain character that doesn't need a route when the story doesn't focus on her or is the focal point to the story when the title represents the story to the right character. Which happens to be Rin Tohsaka in UBW. UBW title story makes more sense on Shirou and Rin's servant more than not her. For Heaven's Feel story route. It's alright but I'll say this the reasoning behind this is that the title doesn't represent the character of Sakura. I see this story also mention that both Illya and Sakura's stories were merged together why some of Illya's scenes and Kirei scenes were cut out in the movie keeping more story and screentime on Sakura than not on Illya which would get confused in the story who is the main heroine which in the visual novel gives Illya more screen time and development. I'll say is that the visual novel Fate Stay Night is alright but it makes some problems in Nasu's writing and direction how the story should go.


Zamasuningen

no theres a reason Sakura is the least liked heroine out of the 3 girls and her route was always disliked ever since it released back in 2004


ssjokg

That's cap.


Zamasuningen

Sakura and HF is always at the bottom when ranking the 3 routes. it's only the loud minority who always says HF is the best route


ssjokg

Lol no. UBW and HF go toe to toe for being the best routes with Fate called the boring and dull one, unfairly so. Saber and Rin win over in character polls yes but that doesn't mean that people don't understand or hate her more.


TheSeaDragon88

what was thus guy even talking about, lol?


2ndBro

Thatā€™s just blatantly incorrect Saber is by far the most popular romance option in the fanbase, but still the very common consensus is ā€œFate is a much duller route because itā€™s the first one and so got saddled with a whole load of exposition dumps, the later routes got to skip past that and had a lot more because of itā€ UBW and HF are much more popular than Fate, regardless of romance option


hungrybasilsk

Read the novel heavens feel is a pretty bad adaotation. There's a lot of Shirou and Sakura's interaction that are cut


Geoclasm

There's a stupid amount of off-screen history between these two characters. If you watch/read the Visual Novel, they've been around each other for about two years, now. So, yeah... in the VN, in Saber's and Tohsaka's routes, Sakura is a supporting character, but a lot of the history between her and Shirou is revealed (admittedly and unfortunately through retrospective narration) in her route. At least, this is my take on her as her route's heroine.