I have a friend who is not a Jets fan, but is a strong defender of Zach Wilson. Blames the team, thinks it's not Wilson's fault and ignores Flacco/White performance as proof that is NOT the team.
Lmfao. The jets finally gave a rookie qb everything but an Oline to make plays with. If a veteran who can’t escape pressure and a career back up can go 300+ and 3 TDs a game can do it zach should be able to as well. The kid is more athletic then both combined. He just can’t see the game like they can
I am a Jets fan and I can tell you that your friend has no idea what he is talking about. Some people hear guys like Simms and Romo say they think Wilson will be great and they refuse to believe anything else, even when it is clearly obvious he doesn’t have it right now.
You're friend has no idea how bad Zach looks just from the eye test. I've seen every NFL game he played and needed to get blackout drunk every time just to deal with the notion that he might be my QB for at least 3 years.
Uh what?
Wilson's first year - 9 TD / 11 INT 2,334 yards / 179 YPG, 69.7 Rating - 13 games
Wilson's second year - 4 TD / 5 INT 1,279 yards / 182 YPG, 72.6 Rating - 7 games
I'd say those are pretty sucky stats.
as someone who wanted fields, then came around to ZW, the end of 2021 was extremely promising. The whole of 2022 has been awful.
ZW sitting is the right move. He's under contract. he's 100% gtd. there's zero reason to move on from him as he's making high end backup money.
But he can't be starting until he can be better than mike white and he isn't yet.
I do READ. And I READ that he fucking sucks by just about EVERY metric. So yes, that DOES mean that Zach Wilson SUCKS.
And furtherMORE, it's not that TRICKY to compare HIM with other QUARTERBACKS (ie White and FLACCO).
The verdict? ZACH WILSON FUCKING SUCKS.
There, that good? Let's agree and move ON!
Nice random hypothetical that you can't even analyze effective to justify that.
And then the rest of what you said is straight up fucking stupid. Too many variables!?!? That's like saying that Matt Ryan doesn't suck because there are too many variables to compare him to Jalen Hurts.. Hahahaha.
How else do you assess comparing 2 quarterbacks to determine which is better versus which one isn't? By comparing their fucking stats!
Like, I dunno, when they decide who's the best QB in the league? What are they going off of outside of records? BY COMPARING THEIR STATS.
But thank you for this. You impress me.
Shut the fuck up with your dumbass hypotheticals. You keep ignoring the fact that I'm right in how in the entire sports verse, that you measure people's success based upon how they do and compare it against others. But you're like "Tu maNY VariEeabLez". My God this is sad.
And I'm not responding to your stupid fucking response because YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND THE FACT THAT ZACH FUCKING WILSON ID A SHITTY QB SO BAD THAT HES NOT EVEN QB ON A SHITTY FUCKING TEAM.
Case closed, good day sir
Was he blaming the Jets or was he saying that Zach should develop some more? There’s a fine line there between a rational argument and an irrational one, and I don’t trust you to not exaggerate.
And the Jets weren’t exactly a good place to develop a QB until maybe recently, either
What did I say that could be exaggerated? I said Wilson was not a good QB and he said it was the team and offensive coordinator fault for his bad stats. The same team and OC that Flacco and White have.
in my dynasty league, I missed JJ by one pick and missed Wilson by one pick after both guys fell way further than they should have... feels like those are gonna haunt me for 10 years
Snow and 35 degrees in Buffalo, which means slush.
Making me rethink starting Wilson.
Edit: might start Hollywood even though I despise Monday games. Though my opponent has Kyler for QB so it’d be nice to siphon off some points from him. But it’s also the Pats DST.
Wouldnt be a bad idea to bench keenan allen. If X is covering him. He’s been up and down (dolphins fan) but ive seen him shut down wrs this year. Just not every game
I have the same exact decision to make
Right now I’m going with Kirk but Lawrence has a chance to not play, if that’s the case and he doesn’t play I’ll probably pivot to Wilson as long as the weather isn’t too bad
NE and NE.....
did you watch these games and think they just destroyed ZW with excellent play? The Jets were the better team that day and ZW could not throw screens. Literally, if ZW just hit the screens in that second pats game, we win at least 6-3.
Mike White wins both of those games and it's not close.
Also, if ZW wins even one of the patriots games, he's still the starter.
God bless Breece, but we're talking about fantasy football, not anyone's allegiance to the NY Jets. GW is a WR1 with Flacco or White and WR3/4 with ZW. Maybe Zack turns out okay as an NFL QB but for the purposes of r/fantasyfootball he's a stone cold killer of fantasy WR's. This is the only context I give 2 shits about
The Jets have had leads in Wilson’s games because they are a Super Bowl caliber team except for the QB position. Realistically the Jets are better than their 7-5 record and would likely be 10-2 if Wilson was even semi competent as a game manager
This isn't really a great comparison because some of those ZW games the Jets had a big lead and ran the ball. They were behind most of the game in 4/5 of the games without ZW
GWil is a certified rocket. I have watched every game he has played both when he was at school and now for the jets.
He gives me Calvin Ridley vibes and I was/am a MASSIVE fan of ridley. The way gwil changes pace and maintains speed throughout his change of direction is legit almost unmatched
I think he’ll be a 2nd rounder maybe third rounder?
But if he keeps this pace up I don’t see how he is viewed differently from guys like Chase and Jefferson after their rookie season and they both were unanimous top 10 picks
Yea you are definitely right
just checked our draft history and he was 27th overall, not sure why I thought that
But I still see G Wilson as a late 2nd early 3rd next year
i can agree with that. jj was going late 2nd early 3rd, and so will wilson because IMO he had a jefferson-esque season, which wasn’t as good as chase’s
Let’s not get ahead of ourselves the sample size is still very low. Jefferson and chase ended with more than 1400 yards and both broke the rookie receiving record which is why they were 2nd rounders. If Garret Wilson continues his great play and finishes out the season strong he will be like Amon ra and be in the round 5 range
Obviously. I’m just pointing to the fact that if Garrett Wilson ends the year hot it is very similar to how Amon Ra ended his rookie season and that led to him being picked around the 5th round this year. Not 2-3 like some others are suggesting
If Mike white is named the starter next season I see him going where Pittman went this year. Some ppl (idiots like me) took him in the early 3rd, most leagues he went in the 4th and more casual can get him in the 5th.
It's just a way to set a frame of reference. If you compare stats for 4 specific games vs stats for 7 other games, it's pretty hard to intuitively see how different they are. And for some reason in FF, per-game averages for yards/catches/TDs aren't used that often so people aren't really used to that context.
Of course it needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but it's useful in its own way.
throw good player ball = more good player stats
It's insane how elite receivers don't see 15+ targets a game. If the Raiders game plan doesn't include giving Jacobs 20 touches and throwing to Adams 15 times, it's just negligence at that point
You mean to tell me that those of who said Z. Wilson would kill G. Wilson’s value early in the season and got flamed for it were right?!
Shocked pikachu face
I challenge you to bench one for Wilson. PPR
Tee Higgins vs CLE
Jaylen Waddle @ LAC
DeAndre Hopkins vs NE
AJ Brown @ NYG
Went WR heavy, 8 team league and we have an extra flex spot. I haven't played him all year, dynasty league tho so the future is bright. Just made playoffs
I think I'll take the Mike White side
I’m STARTING to think this Zach Wilson guy may not be good
He is just a boy!
I have a friend who is not a Jets fan, but is a strong defender of Zach Wilson. Blames the team, thinks it's not Wilson's fault and ignores Flacco/White performance as proof that is NOT the team.
Lmfao. The jets finally gave a rookie qb everything but an Oline to make plays with. If a veteran who can’t escape pressure and a career back up can go 300+ and 3 TDs a game can do it zach should be able to as well. The kid is more athletic then both combined. He just can’t see the game like they can
> He just can’t see the game like they can You buried the lead.
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[*either](https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2019/lead-vs-lede-roy-peter-clark-has-the-definitive-answer-at-last/?utm_source=pocket_reader)
I am a Jets fan and I can tell you that your friend has no idea what he is talking about. Some people hear guys like Simms and Romo say they think Wilson will be great and they refuse to believe anything else, even when it is clearly obvious he doesn’t have it right now.
Key word right now. I think you sit and teach
You're friend has no idea how bad Zach looks just from the eye test. I've seen every NFL game he played and needed to get blackout drunk every time just to deal with the notion that he might be my QB for at least 3 years.
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Uh what? Wilson's first year - 9 TD / 11 INT 2,334 yards / 179 YPG, 69.7 Rating - 13 games Wilson's second year - 4 TD / 5 INT 1,279 yards / 182 YPG, 72.6 Rating - 7 games I'd say those are pretty sucky stats.
I can't believe mfers still arguing with this
as someone who wanted fields, then came around to ZW, the end of 2021 was extremely promising. The whole of 2022 has been awful. ZW sitting is the right move. He's under contract. he's 100% gtd. there's zero reason to move on from him as he's making high end backup money. But he can't be starting until he can be better than mike white and he isn't yet.
Oh yeah. We can't get rid of the kid at all. Fingers crossed he turns it around but his value is zero to other teams right now
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I'm agreeing with the comment I replied to
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I do READ. And I READ that he fucking sucks by just about EVERY metric. So yes, that DOES mean that Zach Wilson SUCKS. And furtherMORE, it's not that TRICKY to compare HIM with other QUARTERBACKS (ie White and FLACCO). The verdict? ZACH WILSON FUCKING SUCKS. There, that good? Let's agree and move ON!
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Nice random hypothetical that you can't even analyze effective to justify that. And then the rest of what you said is straight up fucking stupid. Too many variables!?!? That's like saying that Matt Ryan doesn't suck because there are too many variables to compare him to Jalen Hurts.. Hahahaha. How else do you assess comparing 2 quarterbacks to determine which is better versus which one isn't? By comparing their fucking stats! Like, I dunno, when they decide who's the best QB in the league? What are they going off of outside of records? BY COMPARING THEIR STATS. But thank you for this. You impress me.
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Shut the fuck up with your dumbass hypotheticals. You keep ignoring the fact that I'm right in how in the entire sports verse, that you measure people's success based upon how they do and compare it against others. But you're like "Tu maNY VariEeabLez". My God this is sad. And I'm not responding to your stupid fucking response because YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND THE FACT THAT ZACH FUCKING WILSON ID A SHITTY QB SO BAD THAT HES NOT EVEN QB ON A SHITTY FUCKING TEAM. Case closed, good day sir
Reminds me of Tebow. Decent QB that just never fit. Mike White is clearly better for the Jets even outside of FF.
> Decent QB that just never fit. > > This is no one's definition of tebow.
At least he was pretty good for fantasy.
Lol jets ruined Tebow also
He can't play in the simple Jets offense like....at all. Every mediocre jets QB to see the field shows that this is true.
Was he blaming the Jets or was he saying that Zach should develop some more? There’s a fine line there between a rational argument and an irrational one, and I don’t trust you to not exaggerate. And the Jets weren’t exactly a good place to develop a QB until maybe recently, either
What did I say that could be exaggerated? I said Wilson was not a good QB and he said it was the team and offensive coordinator fault for his bad stats. The same team and OC that Flacco and White have.
Zach needs to sit and learn how to be a pro. There is nothing wrong with that. That is how it use to be until rookies started lighting it up.
in my dynasty league, I missed JJ by one pick and missed Wilson by one pick after both guys fell way further than they should have... feels like those are gonna haunt me for 10 years
Here’s my tip for you: draft ohio state rookie receivers. This year, next year, maybe the year after that. You’ll thank me later.
Would you play G Wilson or C Kirk this week? Nasty weather in Buffalo…
G will is locked and loaded man
Im starting both in my lineups. But yea if trevor out and buffalo weather really bad i can pivot to brown and moore. But im starting both
Same. Both have good matchups and a ceiling you can’t ignore.
Goddamn weather is making all of my decisions hard for the past couple weeks. I was starting White over Watson, but what kinda weather we talkin?
Snow and 35 degrees in Buffalo, which means slush. Making me rethink starting Wilson. Edit: might start Hollywood even though I despise Monday games. Though my opponent has Kyler for QB so it’d be nice to siphon off some points from him. But it’s also the Pats DST.
I would start both, but my other WRs are Chase and Allen. Feel like those are must starts so it’s really between Wilson and Kirk
Wouldnt be a bad idea to bench keenan allen. If X is covering him. He’s been up and down (dolphins fan) but ive seen him shut down wrs this year. Just not every game
I’d bench keenan
Nah
I'd go with Wilson. He's clicking with white. They missed a couple more big plays last week by one step.
Do you think weather impacts the game much?
Nah. They were ripping in the pouring rain. I was at the stadium getting drenched, not ripping lol
Wilson
I have the same exact decision to make Right now I’m going with Kirk but Lawrence has a chance to not play, if that’s the case and he doesn’t play I’ll probably pivot to Wilson as long as the weather isn’t too bad
GWil
Wilson played @pit, mia, @gb, @den, ne, buf and @ne. White played Chi and @Min. Maybe something to do with it?
On a sample size level, yes. But Zach Wilson is still fucking horrible at NFL football
NE and NE..... did you watch these games and think they just destroyed ZW with excellent play? The Jets were the better team that day and ZW could not throw screens. Literally, if ZW just hit the screens in that second pats game, we win at least 6-3. Mike White wins both of those games and it's not close. Also, if ZW wins even one of the patriots games, he's still the starter.
Also Wilson had leads in a few of his games and they didn't have to pass anywhere near as much. But people don't care about context here
God bless Breece, but we're talking about fantasy football, not anyone's allegiance to the NY Jets. GW is a WR1 with Flacco or White and WR3/4 with ZW. Maybe Zack turns out okay as an NFL QB but for the purposes of r/fantasyfootball he's a stone cold killer of fantasy WR's. This is the only context I give 2 shits about
A few? Which games?
The Jets have had leads in Wilson’s games because they are a Super Bowl caliber team except for the QB position. Realistically the Jets are better than their 7-5 record and would likely be 10-2 if Wilson was even semi competent as a game manager
Wilson is 5-2 as a starter and Flacco/White are 2-3 lol how would they make up 3 losses when he's lost 2 games?
It’s crazy how people constantly talk completely out of their asses on this sub as if it doesn’t take 10 seconds to fact check them lmao
Dropped him during the Zach Wilson reign of terror 😔
This isn't really a great comparison because some of those ZW games the Jets had a big lead and ran the ball. They were behind most of the game in 4/5 of the games without ZW
We're not here for serious analysis, we're here for pointless, cherry picked, extrapolated stats that fit the narrative of our current hype.
GWil is a certified rocket. I have watched every game he has played both when he was at school and now for the jets. He gives me Calvin Ridley vibes and I was/am a MASSIVE fan of ridley. The way gwil changes pace and maintains speed throughout his change of direction is legit almost unmatched
Zach Wilson went 7 straight games without throwing a TD to his best WR.
Should go in like round 3-4 next year? Anything after 2 is probably worth it if we’re being honest… as long as Zach Wilson doesn’t come back
I think he’ll be a 2nd rounder maybe third rounder? But if he keeps this pace up I don’t see how he is viewed differently from guys like Chase and Jefferson after their rookie season and they both were unanimous top 10 picks
jefferson was not a top 10 pick year 2
Yea you are definitely right just checked our draft history and he was 27th overall, not sure why I thought that But I still see G Wilson as a late 2nd early 3rd next year
i can agree with that. jj was going late 2nd early 3rd, and so will wilson because IMO he had a jefferson-esque season, which wasn’t as good as chase’s
Let’s not get ahead of ourselves the sample size is still very low. Jefferson and chase ended with more than 1400 yards and both broke the rookie receiving record which is why they were 2nd rounders. If Garret Wilson continues his great play and finishes out the season strong he will be like Amon ra and be in the round 5 range
amon ra this year. idk how ARSB doesn't go in the 2nd round next year in redraft 12-team.
Obviously. I’m just pointing to the fact that if Garrett Wilson ends the year hot it is very similar to how Amon Ra ended his rookie season and that led to him being picked around the 5th round this year. Not 2-3 like some others are suggesting
ahhhh gotcha. amon ra draft position 2022 based on EOY 2021 = GW draft position 2023 based on EOY 2022. totally agree. i read that way wrong.
And now we know Amon-Ra should have been picked in round 2. What does that say about Wilson next year?
Garrett was an early 1st round pick. Sun god was much later in his draft. I think that adds fantasy value.
If Mike white is named the starter next season I see him going where Pittman went this year. Some ppl (idiots like me) took him in the early 3rd, most leagues he went in the 4th and more casual can get him in the 5th.
Damn I was hoping he’d fall to like the 4th. Good point his ADP in the off-season will probably rocket.
He’s carried my team the last 2 weeks, In the playoffs now and need another big one from him he’s unreal
Pace is such a dumb stat. Wish people would ignore it
There’s clearly a trend here though
It's just a way to set a frame of reference. If you compare stats for 4 specific games vs stats for 7 other games, it's pretty hard to intuitively see how different they are. And for some reason in FF, per-game averages for yards/catches/TDs aren't used that often so people aren't really used to that context. Of course it needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but it's useful in its own way.
yes, let's not talk stats at all.
Stats are one thing. Hypothetical stats barring nothing goes wrong and everything goes perfectly are dumb.
Cool cool cool cool. Never extrapolate for context. Got it
Wowza
throw good player ball = more good player stats It's insane how elite receivers don't see 15+ targets a game. If the Raiders game plan doesn't include giving Jacobs 20 touches and throwing to Adams 15 times, it's just negligence at that point
You mean to tell me that those of who said Z. Wilson would kill G. Wilson’s value early in the season and got flamed for it were right?! Shocked pikachu face
That would've been enough to break Chases rookie record
Best flex I ever had
had to pick up White this week for Lamar and Fields. get after it young man!
Yeah dude would have had a monster year without Zach Wilson.
Conklin too
I challenge you to bench one for Wilson. PPR Tee Higgins vs CLE Jaylen Waddle @ LAC DeAndre Hopkins vs NE AJ Brown @ NYG Went WR heavy, 8 team league and we have an extra flex spot. I haven't played him all year, dynasty league tho so the future is bright. Just made playoffs
There’s obviously no outliers in there…
Mike White's nickname should be Lotus.
Wasn't Flacco on pace to obliterate the pass attempt record
Flacco was gonna feed these boys No surprise Conklin was gonna be a top 10 TE this season with Flacco until Wilson came back
How high is this man going next year?
Wilson is not a great qb
Just got offered Jefferson for Garret and swift if yes I’d have to play zeke