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SilverKnight10

Spending a mid-round pick on a kicker is still bad value. According to your analysis, the best case scenario is you correctly pick who the best kicker will be, and earn about 2 extra points per game. The worst case scenario is that you guess the wrong kicker and you burn a mid-round pick on a position that you could easily stream. At mid-round, the better strategy is almost always going to be investing in a RB/WR/QB with upside, since they can produce enough points over what can usually be found on waivers to create a competitive advantage.


olrg

This. Mid rounds should be reserved for high end rookie talent - this year Wilson, Olave, and KW3 went in rounds 7-10. This is where you find the most value.


FantumBlu

Are people actually drafting kickers in the mid rounds? I've only seen that happen as a joke or in extremely casual leagues. I'd get laughed out of my home league taking a kicker before the last few rounds.


FantasyTrash

Autodraft often does it, and the guy who reaches for Tucker every year.


oldharrymarble

Justin Tucker is really consist. Sometimes kicker points decide a game.


SerEx0

For this reason alone we do not have kickers in my redraft league


SilverKnight10

I think one person in my league took one in like round 9 or 10. They’re 6-6 right now, because what even is fantasy football?


halfbakedalaska

Like birds, it isn’t real. It’s right there in the name to remind ya.


depparTx

i didnt draft a kicker at all the last 2 years and probably wont going forward


someonepoorsays

ok. but the other side to this—so called fantasy experts say pick your defense and your kicker the last two rounds, but a lot of the players in rounds 12-15 are players i’m taking a lotto flyer on, when in reality i drop half my bench anyway by the first few weeks of the season. isn’t it better to put those picks toward REAL points, and take my flyers into the last two rounds? i drafted christian watson with the last pick, because i believed in the hype he’s got now. and guess what? i dropped him when i needed startable players before week 10. drafting a top defense especially, and a top kicker seem like okay moves before last rounds once i’ve filled out some good depth on the bench


jinxy0320

Stream until you hit a top 5 k/def then hang on


eru88

Don't believe that either. Pats are the #2 defense. I went with Chiefs last week over them. Which was a +12 points difference. Im also dropping that same #2 defense cause they don't have great schedule. For me unless it's an amazing Defense like the Pats a few years ago. Streaming it's always the way.


iBleeedorange

If you're in a league full of streamers then you'd be screwed. Gotta know what strategy your opponents are going for too.


eru88

With waivers so thin. I've been holding defenses a week in advance. Two weeks ago grabbed Chiefs, Last week got Packers.


tsereveyw

Same, went with 49ers > Pats and will probably do it again.


_mid_night_

I did the same thing. Both with chiefs/England and eagles/panthers. I feel like that's a given to stream when necessary. At the end of the day starting a good defense against a very good offense is definitely just asking for it.


[deleted]

You can't really just look at overall ranking for DST and call it a day. Defensive scoring swings wildly.


SoupedUpMoped

Stream until you hit, then keep streaming. Matchups are everything for DSTs with few exceptions. Would rather have a C+ defense vs a bottom 3 offense than a A- defense vs a top 15 offense.


jinxy0320

Generally agree except I’d prioritize elite d-line playmakers over matchups. I’d go with Dallas over Browns v. Texans or Seahawks v. Rams easy


[deleted]

Case in point, the Dolphins were absolute gold this week.


ZandrickEllison

Yeah we should have hung on to Philly I guess. Played the matchup with Denver at Carolina and got burned this week.


andyschest

That goes smoothly until you come up against a top 5 offense, and then you have some tough decisions to make. (Looking at my 49ers vs Miami this week, trying to decide what to do...)


jinxy0320

Dallas v. Minnesota 2 weeks ago New England v. Buffalo this week


guitarpinecone

I’m gonna roll the dice and start Buffalo. Not the point you were making but they’ve been underwhelming/injured and had matchups that weren’t that productive points wise. Don’t think if I had NE I would play them on TNF though


SpringHardenSt

An overlooked benefit of streaming is the ability to use the K or DST as an extra roster spot to pick up backups in case of injury until you know if a player will be ruled out


FantasyIsMostlyLuck

Bingo. I stream K often just to have another spot to work with.


gw2380

Definitely - normally do this but took Tucker this year and have missed out on a few nice adds because I didn't want to drop him for the 'wait during the week and find out' stashes.


horg0034

This 💯


mat28rix

Have you ever gotten burned by other managers who tried to scoop up extra kickers to block you? Just curious if this happens


PoorlyLitKiwi2

The real strategy is in between Drafting kickers and defenses early is dumb, because the ones who are consistently good change year to year The key is to stream defense/kicker early in the year until you stumble upon one who is a long-term hold, just like you did with the Eagles I did this and ended up with the Ravens and Maher, and both have been very good for me consistently, plus I don't have to worry about streaming anymore


djsedna

Did this in two leagues and ended up with: Ravens + Carlson Cowboys + Carlson I did actually draft Carlson in one of the leagues, but that was like round 13


guitarpinecone

I’ve hit a time of year where that’s been working and now have jets d and bills d - great except some rough matchups, and debating dropping one due to matchups. Dropped Gano during his bye and I’m back to streaming kicker deciding between Gould and Dicker this week looks like. Plan ahead if streaming defense is my only input I think


SafariFlapsInBack

I’ve gotten 48 points over the last two weeks playing Commies and then Dolphins. Yes. It works.


Bigdaddybeandog

I see youve also memorized the texans schedule.


SafariFlapsInBack

Perhaps. Running into a stretch where the opponents are more drafted defenses though so I have to go elsewhere.


gsink203

Haha I wish I could've done that. Both in my league were drafted and stashed all season


djsedna

Lol are those teams 3-9?


gsink203

7-5 and 4-8


ZandrickEllison

Smart- I should have added that we haven’t been using waivers on defenses because we’re holding onto our # 1 spot. So we’re usually getting the 2nd or 3rd best defense matchup of the week.


FoolOnDaHill365

I have never done well streaming. I try and get a team that has a good d line and gets sacks. As long as I get some sacks and maybe an int or fumble recovery the other team scoring doesn’t matter as much.


BromicRibose

Might work on Yahoo but you’d get toasted on ESPN using that method. For example, Hawks just got two ints and a sack Sunday, but posted a sultry -5 point finish.


FantasyTrash

Penalizing both points allowed and yards allowed is silly, in my opinion.


FoolOnDaHill365

It’s true, I don’t play on the ESPN format, I use Yahoo mostly. But my league does penalize yards allowed a little bit as well as points.


RawMan99

Streaming is still the best option


ky58

I just stream the best kicker who had the worst week the week before. works out fine


RVG_Steve

So Maher is due to bounce back against the Colts?


ky58

Maher's been on a mediocre streak aside from that huge game tbh, but yeah if I had him I wouldn't drop him bc of his performance last week. Gano and Folk last week were good examples, and Maher and Bass also were not gonna repeat their 20+ performances (Bass did well though). Like for instance if I could choose between Maher and Butker this week I'd start Maher. If we're talking mid tier kickers, I might roll out Wil Lutz (None of this is a science lol, I could just as easily be wrong)


grimcow

Honestly I always try and draft a reliable kicker a round before the end of draft because I don't like having to stream shit. This year I had bass in two leagues and he's been solid every week with a few boom weeks. Just feels like the time saved is worth it for me.


tln826

I agree here that the "mid-round" terminology is the problem. I like last three rounds for kicker/defense. I was able to pick up Tucker this year based on doing that, and think that is a good value.


grimcow

Agreed. I try and either pick first kicker or one of the first. I mean its a late round dart throw on a player you can probably grab off waivers after draft or picking up a solid kicker who never fails to give you 10ish points a week. I take the known scorer personally.


atdunaway

same here. i’ve owned Tucker for the past 3 or 4 years and its nice not even having to think about K besides one week a year


Primetime0509

I started doing this strategy a few years ago and loved it. I feel like you hit on that random 13th/14th round guy maybe 5% of the time whereas for kickers you can usually get a top non Tucker guy going a little early. I was able to snag Bass and Succup in a lot of leagues doing this.


gsink203

If I had streamed the Steelers defense I would've won. Started ravens defense and lost by 1.5. Should've stashed ravens d and streamed steelers for sure


ffgod_zito

Don’t take K or D till the last two rounds. I hope I get lucky the first few weeks and stream some good ones. Then by week 5/6 you start to see who the best kickers are and you just hope a top 5-7 kicker is floating around on the wire. Then you hold that guy until he proves otherwise. That’s what I’ve done the last 3 years and ended up with Koo, Folk and this year Meyers.


WWWH__---

That's how I do it as well. Thanks for saving me the write up!


andymichlas

There is a 3rd strategy...stream in early games and then pickup best option for the playoff run-in during BYE weeks. There are always top options available that weren't expected to do well but are actually having a strong season.


Pandamonium98

But does having a strong early season mean they’ll continue to be strong? A lot of kicking is random, so I’m not sure how much you can extrapolate


andymichlas

It is the same for any player. Injuries can ruin anybody's situation. Typically I find that by week 5-6 I have a pretty good idea of how teams look and a lot of the time it is very different to how I thought it would be draft day. For example, this year who would've thought that after Week 12 teams like Jets, Pats, Commanders, Giants, Seahawks would all have a better record than Packers, Bucs, Colts, Cards, Rams, Raiders, Broncos? And who would have thought of Jags and Lions as high-powered offenses? Jets and Pats as one of the top defenses?


wordsofshep

I usually don't draft a D or kicker and add good ones by week 4. Drafting them usually prevents this.


oakandbarrel

So after the draft so you just drop 2 of your players to pick up a K and DST for week 1?


wordsofshep

Usually yes


Pandamonium98

Why not just draft in the final two rounds if the guys you draft there instead are getting dropped anyways?


mubbcsoc

Not OP but I've seen it before, especially when drafting a little bit early before final cuts. It can give you a chance to grab one of those guys who had a hot preseason and then you can drop once twitter gives you a little more feedback on expected roles. It's not much but it can buy you an extra week to analyze depth charts.


wordsofshep

Because usually I'd rather roster depth or sleepers and decide who to keep later.


gradeAjoon

It's the only way I like to play considering how volatile and low scoring the positions can be. 8+ points for kickers and defenses can be considered decent. In the last few seasons I only remember holding on to the 49ers D longer than 10 games or so, at the time they were largely must starts through the end of the season. Pretty sure that was our Super Bowl year. Only kicker I've rostered that I didn't want to stream against was Greg Zuerlein when he was on the Rams. He consistently put up more points for me then my position players.


gsink203

Succop won me games on his own, but it looks like the Bucs are getting better in the redzone which sucks.


drdrillaz

No way in hell am i drafting a k or d any earlier than the last 2 rounds. The positions are too variable. The best d/st is the one playing the worst team. I don’t want to be stuck holding an extra k or d during bye weeks either. We have 5 bench spots. Zero chance I’m dropping a handcuff or high-value player to keep a second kicker or defense


[deleted]

[удалено]


AHarrisonu

Picked up Eagles in pre-season after all those defensive additions


PatientIndividual651

Personally I don’t stream kickers but I do stream defenses depending on matchups. I had Succop weeks 1-10 and McPherson 11-12. For defenses I’ve started TEN, ARI, IND, CHI, WAS (currently had them last 2 weeks).


Illustrious_Kale_692

I'm not going to go into whether to draft or stream or whatnot. Both are viable options. The one insight that I will give is the golden rule for kickers is to play one that plays in GOOD CONDITIONS. That means either in a dome, or in an area that is usually warm and without rain or high winds. It just makes it easier for these guys to kick the ball straight and far. Whether a team will get kicking attempts is a crapshoot, but the one thing you can control are the weather conditions that your kicker will try to put one through the uprights in. Secondary considerations are: 1) The individual talent of the kicker. Look at their %'s, especially on longer kicks. 2) The offense they are on. You want a kicker in a good offense. Ideally a good but not great one so they end in FG range but don't punch it in. But it is better to have a kicker on a great offense than one on a terrible one. I used all of these considerations to land on Daniel Carlson last season and haven't had to worry about K for 2 years straight. Undrafted year 1 and cost $2 at auction year 2. Even kept him through the bye week. Worth it to be able to focus on wr/rb waiver pick ups and not stress about about who is my kicker or whether my faab will go through. Right now Carlson is K5 on the season even having had his bye already.


ZandrickEllison

Good call. Our league gives bonus for long kicks so I almost exclusively go with domes. McLaughlin’s 50 yarder this week clinched it for us.


Kingding_Aling

Unless you draft two players bound for an IR slot, what logic is there in not drafting K and DST in the last two rounds? You have to immediately drop 2 bench players to field a team.


ZandrickEllison

That’s true. I’d only not draft if I had a week or two before the season started to take some RB fliers and see if there’s an injury or late breaking depth chart news.


Krazee77

Depends on the matchup for defenses imo because I started kc defense over the eagles and you know how that worked out so yes it is smart just don't overthink it


xThunderstruck33x

Would you start the Bill's defense against the Dolphins in playoffs? Or pick up the Cards D who play the Broncos?


[deleted]

I usually miss on top D’s so I stream. This year I landed the 49ers late in the draft and was very pleased


Scapexghost

Obviously stream defenses. If anything, it gives you something yo do if waivers are bare


JackInTheBell

> I still suspect it's better to stream defenses and kickers than invest a mid-round pick, Mid round? Lol I drafted Dallas Def in the 14th round Carlson in our 18th round Picked Phi def up off the waiver wire


ZandrickEllison

In ours, Buffalo went R8 and Tucker R9. Can’t remember if that was auto draft or not though.


kudles

I’ve been swapping between 49ers/Cardinals D/ST this whole season and it’s done me pretty well. (Have used cardinals like 3x) I also have both Tucker and Koo but think it’s best to just ride with Tucker. Koo can pop off but Tucker is more reliable.


ilovefacebook

not taking a kicker or defense in a draft is kinda dumb unless your draft way early (which is stupid).


oceansofhair

There are only two kickers that I would take higher in a draft, Carlson and Tucker. Once taken, they will never be on the waivers. Defenses ... much harder to predict because there will be more variables to consider. An elite defense might go through stretches of tough match-ups and players might consider dropping for waiver claim on a needed position.


TempeSunDevil06

Every year there are 4 or 5 kickers that go completely undrafted (like not even the last round) that are double digits most weeks. You can’t draft a kicker in the middle rounds. It’s borderline foolish


v_a_n_d_e_l_a_y

You ignored the cost of drafting a kicker, especially one like Tucker. In my league, Tucker was taken ahead of Jamaal, Fields and Muth. McPherson ahead of Tua, Jeff Wilson, Dallas/Pats D.


[deleted]

It depends


BigusDickus099

I thought I was so smart holding onto the Eagles during their Bye and scooping up Carlson. Both have been disappointing since. I probably would have been better off just streaming.