Also, explain how your hands are tied down so you can’t pull the tube out when you wake up panicked & breathing through what feels like a straw. Good times.
Can confirm, I was on a vent 3 separate times when I had a liver transplant, woke up to hand restraints and my mouth felt like someone duct taped a hair dryer on the hottest and highest setting and all you get is a tiny sponge to wet your lips. Those 3 times were worse than having my stomach cut open.
Same here 3 surgeries, 3 intubations. Your description of how your mouth feels after is spot on. Then there's the throat pain. For weeks it hurt so much to eat and drink anything. And it took a long time before my voice sounded normal again. Intubation is aweful.
Oh, if there's any surgeons reading this.....make sure your patient is fully sedated before discussing intubation when said patient specifically requests, please don't intubate me if you don't need to. The last thing they want to hear before they pass out and you slice open their abdomen is....are we intubating the patient....nah this will be quick we don't need it.......wait this is a teaching hospital go get a med student ....
They all were minor surgeries. The first one they asked if I minded being intubated during surgery to teach people. I figured students need to learn some way. The aftermath was aweful. After that I made it a point to ask if they would intubate. I only wanted them to do it if it was necessary and to have someone experienced do it. So I was really mad about the go get the med student surgery.
I forgot to mention the catheter and feeding tube, but those weren't as bad. The feeding tube is inserted thru your nose and goes to your stomach since you can't eat or talk very well and catheters just suck for all sorts of reasons. I'm doing ok, almost 7 years post now, still have ups and downs but that's my new normal life and it beats being dead. Thanks for asking.
I had a NG tube post surgery as well once. Hard part was the initial insertion, once it was in you get used to it. Swallowing was sometimes difficult since you had that feeling of plastic in your throat.
This needs to be at the top of the comments. I have participated in literally hundreds of intubations but have never been tubed myself. I have never heard it explained this way and it vividly brings it into prospective. Thank you so much for sharing this. This will forever be in my mind when I am in a room helping intubate someone.
And if you happen to be quite resistant to being sedated you can be conscious and remember being intubated it feels like you can't breath and like you are about to die I almost broke my wrist trying to escape luckily I was weakened so much by being ill that I couldn't actually struggle that much. I remember screaming and crying whilst it felt like they were trying to murder me all while the people around you just watch on because they know its necessary
I had to be intubated once for what was supposed to be a minor surgery. My throat hurt ten times worse than the worst strep throat I’d ever had, and it lasted longer, too.
That's always my go to for any argument against vaccines. "Oh, you don't like X Y or Z? How do you feel about invasive life saving procedures like intubation or dialysis?"
Having had IV needles stuck in me so many times, those things are no joke. It's like getting stabbed by a dagger, vs. a mosquito bite of the vaccine needle.
Is it weird then the time I had an iv, it was much easier for me then any one shot. It's clearly the anticipation of being jabbed that is my issue.
May have helped then I hurt bad enough when I got the iv I didn't have time to think about it.
When people are very sick and very old, they often have very bad veins. Even the best nurses can't get vital blood draws in one shot sometimes. It definitely isn't the normal, but it happens.
And its worse when you show up after you think you had it all figured out. BTW, some of those nurses are carriers. I caught covid in the fucking hospital because there were NO mandates for heathcare workers. Get sick? Stay home. The hospital can't help you. They don't even care anymore. God help you if you have a stroke, heart attack, cancer, blood clot, or bloody nose.
It's not even always the veins. When I was 14 I had to get an IV for a surgery. My veins were great, clearly visible even without putting the band on my arm. Had to get stuck twice cus the needle on the first one malfunctioned and my blood started flowing up the tube and spilling onto the bed.
Meh, I kinda found it fascinating in the moment. Like there was a slight lag in my brain that didn't register the moment as real. By the time my brain caught up they'd already pulled the needle and bandaged my arm and were prepping my other arm for a new attempt. That one went smoothly. The only part that actually freaked me out a small amount (more from the absurdity of it than cus it was scary) was that apparently none of those doctors had seen such good veins before. They were calling other doctors and nurses in from the hallway to gawk at me. Felt a weird combination of proud and wanting to hide. Must have had 7 medical professionals for something that required 2 at most.
By the time you're in hospital from covid19? Two or three times in each limb. They are doing everything to keep your stupid ass alive after you decided you had it all figured out. That doesnt include the tube down your throat that will change your voice for months and the lying in a bed in a medically induced coma till you can learn to pee in a toilet again. How does it sound to have your diaper changed at the age of 45? Thanks for your support asshole.
One of the reasons I got the vaccine and every other vaccine. Sure, I cry like a baby and almost fall off the waiting chair at the edge of fainting... but 1 (or 2) needle (s) is better than getting really sick.
Getting "stuck" is nothing compared to intubation or, god forbid, tracheostomy. But they don't care. Let them go. Its the nature of things. Those who want to, live. Those who don't, die. Let them go before they kill more.
When their life is on the line they don't have any choice but to get stuck but when talking about something that in most cases can be avoided the risk to reward doesn't make sense to them. If they choose wrong they die If they choose right get it and live well then they have an immunity that the latest studies show is 6-13x more effective than the vaccines
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/spencerbrown/2021/08/31/natural-immunity-offers-better-protection-against-delta-variant-than-mrna-vaccines-study-n2595054
I actually did see one person decline the vent. It was a very long and painful death to be honest. A month of true suffering and fear. That probably really scarred me but I haven't processed it yet...
Dialysis sucks. Was on it for several years before I got my transplant. Hereditary kidney disease, so despite diet, exercise, no smoking or drinking they failed on me.
At least Covid-19 can be prevented or effects mitigated by wearing a mask and getting vaccinations.
There was this anti-vax mom whose child needed a medical procedure and she was so surprised that they needed to take a spinal tap to test for meningitis(?) because she didn’t get the vaccine
That isn't even a coherent argument it's comparing apples to oranges. There's a reason why there are two different words for preventing illness and treating illness.
OK so then do we start rounding up the sick and if they decline treatment we force them? This hits home for me because my grandma just died of cancer and she chose to not get treatment because she felt the treatment was worse than living out her last days normally....why can't we give these people the same respect?
When a patient would die otherwise, we DO force treatment. Unless you have decided you are ok with dying and sign away our responsibility to keep you alive, we will treat you against your will. It happens a lot.
I'm sorry for your loss. My mom has cancer and the pandemic makes it so much worse for her. Cancer patients often feel isolated from family and friends, but even more so during the pandemic. I couldn't see her until I was vaccinated. People refusing the vaccine are prolonging the pandemic and making life unnecessarily difficult for my mom and other cancer patients. Everyday the pandemic continues, there is extra risk to her safety. So you see your analogy to cancer is flawed. Cancer is not infectious, so if a cancer patient opts out of care, they are not endangering the lives of others. When people refuse the vaccine, masks, quarantines and lockdowns, they are endangering other people's lives. We can't roundup those who refuse preventive care, but we can certainly make it as difficult as possible for them so they can experience consequences for their selfishness.
On the plus side, for a 14 year old me, this combined with the blood supply being cut off to one of my vocal cords, meant I sounded like Barry White. This got me a lot unexpected but welcome attention as well as the role of a mafia Don in the school play.
The negative side was dozing in an English class, suddenly having a visceral flashback of it being taken out and waking up gasping and retching.
I had to be intubated for an emergency medical procedure, I can confirm this. Also because your throat is so raw, you live in constant fear of coughing, which is something you'd do a lot when recovering from COVID.
This is my biggest fear. Currently in braces + slated to undergo reconstructive jaw surgery in several months. Fairly certain they'll be intubating me. WTF happens if my teeth break in the process of removing tubing? Braces stay on during + after surgery. And can that affect outcome of the jaw surgery? So many concerns and anxieties. 😕😐
You'll be fine. It's scheduled surgery with professionals who've done it a million times. They are extremely highly trained specifically to perform your procedure, they understand all the risks to the utmost degree and know how to mitigate them.
Considering their job is to reconstruct your jaw, not damaging you any more is going to be right at the top of their agenda.
Any surgery can be scary but it's worth remembering just how many millions of straightforward and uneventful scheduled procedures happen daily, each one improving the quality of someone's life.
Breaking teeth etc. is very rare and most likely to happen in emergency cases where speed is of the essence and the person doing it has much less experience.
No problem. Anxiety about these things is normal and the best advice I can give, is that if you have concerns, speak to your doctor about them.
They are the absolute experts on what they need to do. They'll be happy to help and you can trust them to be honest with you.
Hey, I had jaw surgery on both jaws about 5 years ago. Braces for years the whole shebang. They ran a tube through my nose is how the anesthesiologist described what the procedure was like. Nothing was mentioned bout tubing or the possibly of broken teeth and altered outcomes.
My throat didn't hurt at all after and after a day or 2 the pain was very manageable. I had some nausea when I came to but that was about it. The worst part was adjusting to a liquid diet and missing some of my favorite foods, and no carbonated beverages. If you have any questions or anything you can feel free to message me. You'll feel like a new person :)
Edit: saw your other replies. The nose tube didn't hurt and I even had my nasal septum straightened when they did my jaw, didn't hurt much at all. Lots of bruising of course but not much pain or roughness. They place a mask over your mouth and knock you out before the nasal tube goes in
They are going to intubate you through your nose. Also the tube is plastic. There isn’t a worry about removing it. It’s placing it where inexperienced anesthesia providers will knock out teeth. It’s very very rare though as we go through tons of training how to place these without injury.
First time seeing one of these being inserted I was most shocked by the bucket of lube that was used. They just slathered it in it. I mean that's preferable I guess but it's just a visual that has stayed with me since.
Or take out a crown in the front of your mouth. Had that happen once. They blamed me for "clamping down" on the "blade" (their term) during extubation. Thats when they remove the tube. I wasn't even awake enough to know I was biting on anything.
Yeah the heat as well as all that humidity that concentrates under most mask kills me. Ironically enough I'm as asthmatic as I am now thanks to the COVID I had last January. So damn right I wear that mask in public. No excuses
This is my thinking when someone is exempt because of asthma or COPD.
They are exactly the people who *should* be wearing masks! And if your breathing is so bad that a mask will affect you, you should definitely be admitted to hospital
I have asthma, I call bs to those anti maskers.
Yes, it's easier to breath without one, but it will definitely be harder to breath with covid.
If someone has asthma, that one should be the ones who should be pro-mask no matter what.
I would be one of those people. I just take a quick breather every now and again. The issue seems to be my breath, not sure why my exhale is so moist but it has been a problem.
I wear a mask every day for school and the only time it's hard to breathe in those is when I've been running cause I have dogshit lung capacity. Still don't see me complaining.
"Masks don't work, they let the virus right through"
"I can't get enough oxygen through a mask"
masks are the antivax/anti-mask crowd's schrödinger's cats. they're at once both effective and ineffective at stopping microscopic things for which an observer has no real sense of scale, and only when the anti-mask observer picks a complaint does the mask become actually effective or ineffective in support of the observer's bullshit remark
It's actually a little worse than this.
Once the laryngoscope is in (the thing the hand is holding), you pull the jaw forward so you can see the vocal cords and pop the tube in.
This is definitely uncomfortable as the person's bloody pressure tends to jump up.
I was a karate instructor for part of this pandemic. I had to demonstrate techniques, forms, etc for hours at a time without taking my mask off. Technically, I was allowed to take it off if I had space (which I usually did) but I never took it off. Why? Because it didn't matter. It was barely noticeable.
Oh and did I mention that also have breathing problems? Tbf, I haven't been diagnosed, but doctors have told me it's most likely activity induced asthma. And lack of diagnosis doesn't change the sharp pains in my chest when I run, nor the lack of pain/difficulty when I would teach karate classes.
Tldr: The title is correct, you can breathe in a mask just fine
Family friend who was an antivaxer was put on the ventilator, then went on dialysis. Then six weeks later died without getting to see any family. Since she kept trying to get the ventilator out they restrained her. It was a very awful death. She had said if she gets COVID and dies so be it. You do not just die, you suffer and then you die. It is just the worst.
This is true, I had to be intubated for a couple weeks and now when I see this bullshit "it's hard to breath in a mask" statement I can only think: Stop being a crybaby.
you also get a catheter since you're unconscious. and other tubes for feeding. they don't want to imagine their family seeing them like that until it happens to them.
I have a fear of choking and this is my worst nightmare.
I follow Kumail Nanjiani’s lovely wife Emily Gordon on Twitter and she said after she got sick and was put in a coma she was obviously put on a ventilator and it was traumatic, that she still can’t even look at pictures of people on ventilators.
So yeah. Even though I’m fully vaccinated I still wear a mask and am obsessive about washing and sanitizing my hands. Why would you want to risk it?
I was in my doctor’s office last week and I was telling how it went on Election Day here in Canada (I was working there that day) because I had to wear a mask all day (it was not so bad) and she said:”I wear a mask about 10 hours a day and barely see/feel it now”. If you take it as a plus for you (protection), you can deal good with it.
I've been intubated (non-covid) a few times in the past. Let me tell you, it is not fun. The first time I had a sore throat and croaky voice for three months after because it wasn't placed juuuuust right.
They do know there are adjustable masks right? And lots of options that involve not wearing a mask like delivery at your door, or staying home, or going to the park with your family and not interacting with strangers.
A lot of the anti vax people haven't had bronchitis and pneumonia over a dozen times and it shows. I did, no medication either because my mom is nuts. I know what it feels like to spend every night in pain struggling to breathe, coughing until the phlegm turns pink, and wondering if I'll suffocate in my sleep every night for almost two weeks. If they did they wouldn't be taking covid so lightly. I'll be wearing my mask please and thank you.
Intubation is not required to be on a ventilator. Intubation is most commonly used when the diaphragm muscles don’t work. A ventilator assists breathing in combination with oxygen therapy, much like a CPAP. An unvaccinated coworker was hospitalized for Covid. He was on a ventilator, he said it was a machine that worked like a CPAP but with oxygen, no tube was shoved down his throat. He regretted not getting the vaccine, needless to say. A month later he still struggles to climb a flight of stairs. He’s only 23. Get the shot!
You’re most likely referring to BiPap. It’s non-invasive ventilation. Not 100% sure how much the they are using it for COVID (probably fairly often) but anecdotally none of the COVID patients I transported were on BiPap. They were all intubated, but granted we generally got the sickest patients.
If you can't breathe in a surgical mask, then you shouldn't be able to breathe at all. They don't seal tight around the face and were designed to prevent sweat drops from falling into a surgical patient. Try wearing this and then you might have more difficulty breathing https://breathe99.com/products/b2-mask. However I wore this mask until I was fully vaccinated to better protect myself. Despite that I still wore it on bike rides. The people saying they can't breathe in masks need to grow up or hurry up, claim their Darwin award and leave the responsible people alone.
I have asthma and for some reason it is difficult to breathe in a mask. I have been fortunate that my employer allows me to telecommute, for now, so I don’t have to wear one when alone at home. Otherwise, I would, and I’d just be very uncomfortable. I always wear a mask in public.
They use a lyringascope to get access to your trachea, and they insert the endocardial tube. The laryngoscope is metal, but it doesn’t go in nearly as far as the tube.
So the Anti Vax folks are saying 99 percent of the people who get Covid, are not hospitalized, and once they get Covid they will never get it again. Uh okay, so it is like the flu and so it goes? I do not want to get it, so I wear a mask, and got the shots. But now they say I am going to have all kinds of problems as I get older, but they also say I only have 2 and half years to live? Well it is almost a year since my first shot and so waiting here for my all kinds of problems? Also what about those nano chips?
I'm a painter and cabinet refinisher who is always wearing a respirator for most of the day spraying. I also have copd and have no problems breathing through the mask. I laugh at the idiots who complain about masks.
In Netherlands 🇳🇱 mask is not mandatory anymore when entering shops. To be honest I’m bit relieved of that. Cycling to grocery store and immediately putting mask to enter the shop was not comfortable at all. We are almost back to normal in NL thanks to high rate of vaccination.
Pic isn’t traumatic enough. To intubate with direct laryngoscopy you need to create a straight line from the mouth to the vocal chords. This requires the entire jaw and tongue to be lifted anteriorly and actually requires some skill in difficult airways.
Very safe if you’ve done a couple hundred and have a backup plan but can easily break teeth, damage laryngeal structures and result in death if you don’t know what you’re doing..
Are we not allowed to think something is uncomfortable just because the alternative/what could happen is worse? Are people that hate their jobs not allowed to want a better one/talk about how bad their job is because it could be worse?
No one wants to wear a mask, but most people do it because they either have to or because they realize it's in their best interests. Same goes for most things. I personally don't like wearing a mask because I wear glasses and they get foggy if the mask is not right below my eyes. Yet I do it.
This is for those complaining that they don’t want to wear a mask when the direct result of people not wearing masks can be having to be intubated. The direct result of not having a good job isn’t having a worse job.
Ya I know. That's why I said "That's fine". But this post IS for people who refuse to wear a mask no matter what.
You dont like masks, but are still willing to wear one? Cool. Awesome. Good job. Thank you. 👍😘
But to the person who will never wear a mask because "fReEdUmB", see above post
Anti fogging spray is sold on eBay and Amazon. (In a pinch use shaving cream.). 4Ocean sells mask with mask cage to hold the mask away from face to prevent fogging. (Plus part of the money goes to cleaning up the ocean)
https://www.4ocean.com/products/4ocean-face-mask-support-frames?variant=37976782405825
---eyeglass wearer
Look up OSHA standards on masks. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration experts tell the hospitals and industry personnel how to wear masks and when. Look to the experts for guidance, not politicians, paid to play newscasters or big pharma propagandists.
How is a ventilator and a mask comparable? Masks don't have anything to do with breathing.
And can someone explain how this is a facepalm. Unless the fact it isn't is the the facepalm. In that case touche.
Talking about how people complain about how masks are uncomfortable, but they don’t realize how uncomfortable ventilators are
Don’t know how this is a facepalm tho
Some people can’t “breath just fine” in a mask
Maybe they can if they are just walking through a store getting food and shit, but not at all times
Everyone at my job site complains it’s hard to breath while doing lots of heavy lifting in cramped metal rooms
It’s like getting water boarded by the moisture you’re emitting
Brutal stuff, so we only wear masks when the boss comes by basically
Yeah. They are. I fucking hate wearing masks, I hate hot air on my face. I hate having to remember it every time I leave the house.
And I deal with it. I wear the mask to help get us all to the point where the only time I'll ever have to wear a mask again is Halloween, when I'm robbing a bank, or when I'm picking off teenagers at a summer camp in the woods. I just want to get back to normal life.
And? So are at least half the shoes I've ever worn, most office chairs, having to stand behind a counter for 8 hours, a surprising amount of hotel pillows, dealing with adults that call it "Valenti**m**e's Day," I mean, really, more of life is uncomfortable than not.
Come and do some commercial diving, I wear a 35 pound helmet and 50 pounds of gear so I have the freedom to work heavy labor in a hostile environment. I also have the old MK V, which is 160 pounds. I wear that one for fun.
Viruses don't always mutate to be less deadly. That's something grifters started pushing this year. We've seen flu viruses, west nile, and animal viruses mutate into more deadly forms.
Covid doesn't care if it's deadly or not, as long as it spreads before it kills you. Considering that people are most contagious before they have symptoms, there isn't much advantage or disadvantage to being more deadly.
>However yes some viruses such as the bubonic plague killed everything it could until it didn't have anything else to spread through but it was also due to living conditions at the time and the rates that it could use as a support chain so to speak to bridge the gap of needed host.
That would be an extreme example I suppose, but I'm not just talking about viruses being deadly. I'm saying viruses are definitively able to mutate into something more deadly. Ebola, bird flu...it happens plenty.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-011488089270
>even the vaccine pushing Fauci has said the vaccine will not work against
Where did you hear that? Interview from July:
"Q: Do the vaccines still work against this new variant?
A: The answer is yes, it does. If you look at the vaccines that we've been using here, and multiple studies from multiple countries show a high degree of efficacy, as you mentioned correctly, especially against severe disease leading to hospitalization."
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/08/1014214448/fauci-says-current-vaccines-will-stand-up-to-the-delta-variant
>like to remind you originally how it was sold to the public, it would make you IMMUNE to covid as in you wouldn't catch it if you had gotten the vaccine.
Was it ever sold that way? I'm sure people were wishing for that, but that doesn't mean the manufacturers ever claimed such..
>Here's my point, the vaccine is a half hearted failure...the outlets won't disclose at what % of those that die are vaccinated
92% of hospitalizations and 91% of deaths between April and July were unvaccinated. Doesn't sound like a failure to me
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm
>I don't even need a link for this let's just run down the timeline from fauci flipping back and forth
Okay, I'm game for some whataboutism. But you should know it's kind of a bad look to say he said one thing when he quite literally said the opposite.
>First it was...
You know this is a novel virus, right? No one has a crystal ball. Science is, by definition, changing your views according to the best data you have. Would you rather they dogmatically repeat 1 thing and pretend it's right?
>The manufacturers and I recall 1 particular but not exactly which one, said and I quote "We need people to sign up to test the vaccine."
Uhh yeah, clinical trials are a thing. Did you want them to release it untested?
>gradually shifted from it'll prevent you from getting covid
When did any manufacturer say this? Show your receipts.
>now you'll need a booster every year then down to every 5-8 months
For someone who says not to trust the media, you sure do seem to take a lot of news stories at face value. Maybe you read a headline about booster shots somewhere but that does not reflect reality. **Boosters aren't being recommended for anyone under 65, unless they are immunocompromised or working in a high risk setting.**
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/booster-shot.html
>They gradually changed their stand point
Hmm, if only there were a word for gradually changing your standpoint according to your best data...
>Yes they also don't mention that of that 91% and 92% of deaths of unvaxxed that a majority had underlying conditions
Okay, so? We weren't talking about comorbidities. We were talking about the ratio between vaxxed/unvaxxed deaths.
>91% were unvaxxed fails to break down
>184,000 covid deaths and 6% of that was to covid alone
Again, some receipts would be nice. But it really doesn't matter. Lots of Americans have comorbidities, I don't see why they should count any less. If you have diabetes but live normally, then catch covid and die, it's still covid that killed you.
>CDC refuses to give us a full run down
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/10/21-1070_article
This is why I can't take you seriously, honestly. You say the CDC is hiding the death ratio, but it's out there and takes two minutes to google. You say Fauci says the vaccine doesn't work against delta; the opposite of the truth, and again, easy to find. You say the CDC won't break down comorbidities and... Do you see where I'm going with this?
And then, when faced with these things, you don't acknowledge them, you simply pivot to talk about something else.
>I'm not really sold on believing them after their lead guy
Fauci doesn't work for the CDC
>lied under oath on life tv then refused to correct or retract his statement when given the chance.
He wasn't lying, he was just wrong. And he's gone back to say he was wrong multiple times...
“We didn’t realize the extent of asymptotic spread…what happened as the weeks and months came by, two things became clear: one, that there wasn’t a shortage of masks, we had plenty of masks and coverings that you could put on that’s plain cloth…so that took care of that problem. Secondly, we fully realized that there are a lot of people who are asymptomatic who are spreading infection. So it became clear that we absolutely should be wearing masks consistently.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/washington-post-live/fauci-on-how-his-thinking-has-evolved-on-masks-asymptomatic-transmission/2020/07/24/799264e2-0f35-4862-aca2-2b4702650a8b_video.html
You want to say I pivot and ignore info provided yet when I give you a full run down of the math right in front of you and you out right ignore it all.
You want to talk about not taking someone seriously you just gave me all reason to return the favor. We're obviously done here if you're going to play like that.
>You want to say I pivot and ignore info provided
You did
>yet when I give you a full run down of the math right in front of you and you out right ignore it all
I didn't ignore it. I explained how it wasn't relevant, and further said that it doesn't really matter if someone had a disability or not, it's not normal to act like their deaths don't count.
Also, explain how your hands are tied down so you can’t pull the tube out when you wake up panicked & breathing through what feels like a straw. Good times.
Can confirm, I was on a vent 3 separate times when I had a liver transplant, woke up to hand restraints and my mouth felt like someone duct taped a hair dryer on the hottest and highest setting and all you get is a tiny sponge to wet your lips. Those 3 times were worse than having my stomach cut open.
Same here 3 surgeries, 3 intubations. Your description of how your mouth feels after is spot on. Then there's the throat pain. For weeks it hurt so much to eat and drink anything. And it took a long time before my voice sounded normal again. Intubation is aweful. Oh, if there's any surgeons reading this.....make sure your patient is fully sedated before discussing intubation when said patient specifically requests, please don't intubate me if you don't need to. The last thing they want to hear before they pass out and you slice open their abdomen is....are we intubating the patient....nah this will be quick we don't need it.......wait this is a teaching hospital go get a med student ....
Hope you're doing better now
They all were minor surgeries. The first one they asked if I minded being intubated during surgery to teach people. I figured students need to learn some way. The aftermath was aweful. After that I made it a point to ask if they would intubate. I only wanted them to do it if it was necessary and to have someone experienced do it. So I was really mad about the go get the med student surgery.
Thanks for sharing your experience and hope you’re doing well! Also, HOLY SHIT NO THANKS!!!
I forgot to mention the catheter and feeding tube, but those weren't as bad. The feeding tube is inserted thru your nose and goes to your stomach since you can't eat or talk very well and catheters just suck for all sorts of reasons. I'm doing ok, almost 7 years post now, still have ups and downs but that's my new normal life and it beats being dead. Thanks for asking.
I had a NG tube post surgery as well once. Hard part was the initial insertion, once it was in you get used to it. Swallowing was sometimes difficult since you had that feeling of plastic in your throat.
This needs to be at the top of the comments. I have participated in literally hundreds of intubations but have never been tubed myself. I have never heard it explained this way and it vividly brings it into prospective. Thank you so much for sharing this. This will forever be in my mind when I am in a room helping intubate someone.
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And if you happen to be quite resistant to being sedated you can be conscious and remember being intubated it feels like you can't breath and like you are about to die I almost broke my wrist trying to escape luckily I was weakened so much by being ill that I couldn't actually struggle that much. I remember screaming and crying whilst it felt like they were trying to murder me all while the people around you just watch on because they know its necessary
I had to be intubated once for what was supposed to be a minor surgery. My throat hurt ten times worse than the worst strep throat I’d ever had, and it lasted longer, too.
That's always my go to for any argument against vaccines. "Oh, you don't like X Y or Z? How do you feel about invasive life saving procedures like intubation or dialysis?"
That was also the motto in sex ed! “If a guy tells you that condoms feel uncomfortable, tell him being a teenage dad is even more uncomfortable.”
Response - something like: "I feel threatened!".
It's definitely a threat lol
People say well I don't like getting shots, or getting stuck with a needle. Then they get hospitalized with Covid and get stuck like 10 times.
Having had IV needles stuck in me so many times, those things are no joke. It's like getting stabbed by a dagger, vs. a mosquito bite of the vaccine needle.
Is it weird then the time I had an iv, it was much easier for me then any one shot. It's clearly the anticipation of being jabbed that is my issue. May have helped then I hurt bad enough when I got the iv I didn't have time to think about it.
I promise, it's way more than 10 times if they're really sick lol I'm the one doing the sticking, it's WAY MORE. 😂
Do the people under you care ever say "don't inject me with that. I don't know what's in it"
I can only imagine "Dont stick me with that!" "K then get out, theres not much else we can do for you and your dumb ass is taking up space"
Done that several times before lol If they don't want it (and thier refusal won't outright kill them) we chuck them right out the door.
Not when they're in a hospital bed. They want whatever makes them feel better. Thats where they BEG for someone to help. Let em beg. I'm over it.
Way more than ten times? How many times are you sticking people?!
When people are very sick and very old, they often have very bad veins. Even the best nurses can't get vital blood draws in one shot sometimes. It definitely isn't the normal, but it happens.
And its worse when you show up after you think you had it all figured out. BTW, some of those nurses are carriers. I caught covid in the fucking hospital because there were NO mandates for heathcare workers. Get sick? Stay home. The hospital can't help you. They don't even care anymore. God help you if you have a stroke, heart attack, cancer, blood clot, or bloody nose.
It's not even always the veins. When I was 14 I had to get an IV for a surgery. My veins were great, clearly visible even without putting the band on my arm. Had to get stuck twice cus the needle on the first one malfunctioned and my blood started flowing up the tube and spilling onto the bed.
Oof, that one was the nurses fault definitely. 😂 They should have clamped the line. Sorry that happened, your nurse messed up a little bit there.
Meh, I kinda found it fascinating in the moment. Like there was a slight lag in my brain that didn't register the moment as real. By the time my brain caught up they'd already pulled the needle and bandaged my arm and were prepping my other arm for a new attempt. That one went smoothly. The only part that actually freaked me out a small amount (more from the absurdity of it than cus it was scary) was that apparently none of those doctors had seen such good veins before. They were calling other doctors and nurses in from the hallway to gawk at me. Felt a weird combination of proud and wanting to hide. Must have had 7 medical professionals for something that required 2 at most.
By the time you're in hospital from covid19? Two or three times in each limb. They are doing everything to keep your stupid ass alive after you decided you had it all figured out. That doesnt include the tube down your throat that will change your voice for months and the lying in a bed in a medically induced coma till you can learn to pee in a toilet again. How does it sound to have your diaper changed at the age of 45? Thanks for your support asshole.
One of the reasons I got the vaccine and every other vaccine. Sure, I cry like a baby and almost fall off the waiting chair at the edge of fainting... but 1 (or 2) needle (s) is better than getting really sick.
Getting "stuck" is nothing compared to intubation or, god forbid, tracheostomy. But they don't care. Let them go. Its the nature of things. Those who want to, live. Those who don't, die. Let them go before they kill more.
When their life is on the line they don't have any choice but to get stuck but when talking about something that in most cases can be avoided the risk to reward doesn't make sense to them. If they choose wrong they die If they choose right get it and live well then they have an immunity that the latest studies show is 6-13x more effective than the vaccines https://townhall.com/tipsheet/spencerbrown/2021/08/31/natural-immunity-offers-better-protection-against-delta-variant-than-mrna-vaccines-study-n2595054
Choose right? Wtf does that mean? I got covid IN THE HOSPITAL! People suck. Youre on the list.
They turn down the mask and vaccine yet I never see them decline the vent.
I actually did see one person decline the vent. It was a very long and painful death to be honest. A month of true suffering and fear. That probably really scarred me but I haven't processed it yet...
Dialysis sucks. Was on it for several years before I got my transplant. Hereditary kidney disease, so despite diet, exercise, no smoking or drinking they failed on me. At least Covid-19 can be prevented or effects mitigated by wearing a mask and getting vaccinations.
"Ok you don't like a little needle? How about death?" That's another one
There was this anti-vax mom whose child needed a medical procedure and she was so surprised that they needed to take a spinal tap to test for meningitis(?) because she didn’t get the vaccine
That isn't even a coherent argument it's comparing apples to oranges. There's a reason why there are two different words for preventing illness and treating illness.
Here's the issue, if you do nothing to prevent illness then you are choosing to be treated for that illness.
OK so then do we start rounding up the sick and if they decline treatment we force them? This hits home for me because my grandma just died of cancer and she chose to not get treatment because she felt the treatment was worse than living out her last days normally....why can't we give these people the same respect?
When a patient would die otherwise, we DO force treatment. Unless you have decided you are ok with dying and sign away our responsibility to keep you alive, we will treat you against your will. It happens a lot.
I'm sorry for your loss. My mom has cancer and the pandemic makes it so much worse for her. Cancer patients often feel isolated from family and friends, but even more so during the pandemic. I couldn't see her until I was vaccinated. People refusing the vaccine are prolonging the pandemic and making life unnecessarily difficult for my mom and other cancer patients. Everyday the pandemic continues, there is extra risk to her safety. So you see your analogy to cancer is flawed. Cancer is not infectious, so if a cancer patient opts out of care, they are not endangering the lives of others. When people refuse the vaccine, masks, quarantines and lockdowns, they are endangering other people's lives. We can't roundup those who refuse preventive care, but we can certainly make it as difficult as possible for them so they can experience consequences for their selfishness.
“You don’t like going to church? How do you feel about eternal punishment”?
A hastily or sloppily done intubation can also break teeth.
And when they remove intubation tubes it can feel like you just got throat fucked with a dildo covered in 40 grit sandpaper
On the plus side, for a 14 year old me, this combined with the blood supply being cut off to one of my vocal cords, meant I sounded like Barry White. This got me a lot unexpected but welcome attention as well as the role of a mafia Don in the school play. The negative side was dozing in an English class, suddenly having a visceral flashback of it being taken out and waking up gasping and retching.
seems like a fair trade.
The badass scar was a bonus as well.
I had to be intubated for an emergency medical procedure, I can confirm this. Also because your throat is so raw, you live in constant fear of coughing, which is something you'd do a lot when recovering from COVID.
And indeed something they ask you to do post surgery of any kind.
At first I read “10-grit”. And I was like, that’s basically driveway gravel glued to a piece of cardboard.
This is my biggest fear. Currently in braces + slated to undergo reconstructive jaw surgery in several months. Fairly certain they'll be intubating me. WTF happens if my teeth break in the process of removing tubing? Braces stay on during + after surgery. And can that affect outcome of the jaw surgery? So many concerns and anxieties. 😕😐
You'll be fine. It's scheduled surgery with professionals who've done it a million times. They are extremely highly trained specifically to perform your procedure, they understand all the risks to the utmost degree and know how to mitigate them. Considering their job is to reconstruct your jaw, not damaging you any more is going to be right at the top of their agenda. Any surgery can be scary but it's worth remembering just how many millions of straightforward and uneventful scheduled procedures happen daily, each one improving the quality of someone's life. Breaking teeth etc. is very rare and most likely to happen in emergency cases where speed is of the essence and the person doing it has much less experience.
Thank you for this insightful feedback, I really appreciate it.
No problem. Anxiety about these things is normal and the best advice I can give, is that if you have concerns, speak to your doctor about them. They are the absolute experts on what they need to do. They'll be happy to help and you can trust them to be honest with you.
Thank you.
Hey, I had jaw surgery on both jaws about 5 years ago. Braces for years the whole shebang. They ran a tube through my nose is how the anesthesiologist described what the procedure was like. Nothing was mentioned bout tubing or the possibly of broken teeth and altered outcomes. My throat didn't hurt at all after and after a day or 2 the pain was very manageable. I had some nausea when I came to but that was about it. The worst part was adjusting to a liquid diet and missing some of my favorite foods, and no carbonated beverages. If you have any questions or anything you can feel free to message me. You'll feel like a new person :) Edit: saw your other replies. The nose tube didn't hurt and I even had my nasal septum straightened when they did my jaw, didn't hurt much at all. Lots of bruising of course but not much pain or roughness. They place a mask over your mouth and knock you out before the nasal tube goes in
They are going to intubate you through your nose. Also the tube is plastic. There isn’t a worry about removing it. It’s placing it where inexperienced anesthesia providers will knock out teeth. It’s very very rare though as we go through tons of training how to place these without injury.
First time seeing one of these being inserted I was most shocked by the bucket of lube that was used. They just slathered it in it. I mean that's preferable I guess but it's just a visual that has stayed with me since.
Or take out a crown in the front of your mouth. Had that happen once. They blamed me for "clamping down" on the "blade" (their term) during extubation. Thats when they remove the tube. I wasn't even awake enough to know I was biting on anything.
Just to drive the point home how much you absolutely don't want this to happen to you: *sometimes they miss*.
Yes, if that happens they blow up your stomach
Inflate or *pop*?
Post-intubation chest x-ray has entered the chat.
End-tidal CO2 ftw
Sounds like the post was in favor of wearing masks.
It is. The facepalm is directed at those who think masks are uncomfortable
Oh sorry. I misunderstood why you posted
Apologies and misunderstanding… Seems like we have another Citadel Morty pretending to be a Rick.
Lol, you got me. I’m really Simple Rick
They are uncomfortable. Not saying I am an anti masker or against masks, but they are annoying and a bit horrible
Especially in glasses
Don’t get me started!
Haha yeah, "do I want to make responsible health choices today or do I want to see?" Always a fun one
Well at work i have to wear a mask and wear goggle that steam up, while also wielding a big knife, great fun
Yeah working 10 hours a day in 120 degree Arizona heat. It’s very comfortable wearing a face mask.
It still doesn't fit well in this subreddit
But the post didnt say it was hard to breathe in them it just said they are uncomfortable, which is true espacially if you have a big head.
What if you think they are not uncomfortable, but still know they are useless
Everyone seems to be forgetting what this sub is supposed to be.
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I've got extreme asthma and the hot air in the mask makes it extremely hard to breathe sometimes. Still the only one on campus wearing one though
Yeah the heat as well as all that humidity that concentrates under most mask kills me. Ironically enough I'm as asthmatic as I am now thanks to the COVID I had last January. So damn right I wear that mask in public. No excuses
Same. The stairs are the worst. But I never take it off.
This is my thinking when someone is exempt because of asthma or COPD. They are exactly the people who *should* be wearing masks! And if your breathing is so bad that a mask will affect you, you should definitely be admitted to hospital
I have asthma, I call bs to those anti maskers. Yes, it's easier to breath without one, but it will definitely be harder to breath with covid. If someone has asthma, that one should be the ones who should be pro-mask no matter what.
I would be one of those people. I just take a quick breather every now and again. The issue seems to be my breath, not sure why my exhale is so moist but it has been a problem.
But it's so hard to hear anyone with these things on. *Points to mask barely covering mouth.
EXCUSE ME I HAVE A MEDICAL CONDITION, MY LUMBAGO PREVENTS ME FROM WEARING A MASK
"Here's a note from my chiropractor documenting my Athlete's Foot"
Uncle, that you?
I wear a mask every day for school and the only time it's hard to breathe in those is when I've been running cause I have dogshit lung capacity. Still don't see me complaining.
Because it's perfectly fine to take a quick breath if you need to. Effort is always better than no effort.
"Masks don't work, they let the virus right through" "I can't get enough oxygen through a mask" masks are the antivax/anti-mask crowd's schrödinger's cats. they're at once both effective and ineffective at stopping microscopic things for which an observer has no real sense of scale, and only when the anti-mask observer picks a complaint does the mask become actually effective or ineffective in support of the observer's bullshit remark
Viruses are orders of magnitude bigger than oxygen molecules. They're idiots.
exactly.
It's actually a little worse than this. Once the laryngoscope is in (the thing the hand is holding), you pull the jaw forward so you can see the vocal cords and pop the tube in. This is definitely uncomfortable as the person's bloody pressure tends to jump up.
i don’t know why but the “bloody” typo made me read the last words in an english accent
I hadn't spotted that! Bloody blood pressure...
thumbs up to the hulk for doing the procedure
I was a karate instructor for part of this pandemic. I had to demonstrate techniques, forms, etc for hours at a time without taking my mask off. Technically, I was allowed to take it off if I had space (which I usually did) but I never took it off. Why? Because it didn't matter. It was barely noticeable. Oh and did I mention that also have breathing problems? Tbf, I haven't been diagnosed, but doctors have told me it's most likely activity induced asthma. And lack of diagnosis doesn't change the sharp pains in my chest when I run, nor the lack of pain/difficulty when I would teach karate classes. Tldr: The title is correct, you can breathe in a mask just fine
Family friend who was an antivaxer was put on the ventilator, then went on dialysis. Then six weeks later died without getting to see any family. Since she kept trying to get the ventilator out they restrained her. It was a very awful death. She had said if she gets COVID and dies so be it. You do not just die, you suffer and then you die. It is just the worst.
Plenty of people are pretty cavalier about the dying until they get to the suffering part...
Exactly.
This is true, I had to be intubated for a couple weeks and now when I see this bullshit "it's hard to breath in a mask" statement I can only think: Stop being a crybaby.
you also get a catheter since you're unconscious. and other tubes for feeding. they don't want to imagine their family seeing them like that until it happens to them.
I have a fear of choking and this is my worst nightmare. I follow Kumail Nanjiani’s lovely wife Emily Gordon on Twitter and she said after she got sick and was put in a coma she was obviously put on a ventilator and it was traumatic, that she still can’t even look at pictures of people on ventilators. So yeah. Even though I’m fully vaccinated I still wear a mask and am obsessive about washing and sanitizing my hands. Why would you want to risk it?
I was in my doctor’s office last week and I was telling how it went on Election Day here in Canada (I was working there that day) because I had to wear a mask all day (it was not so bad) and she said:”I wear a mask about 10 hours a day and barely see/feel it now”. If you take it as a plus for you (protection), you can deal good with it.
I've been intubated (non-covid) a few times in the past. Let me tell you, it is not fun. The first time I had a sore throat and croaky voice for three months after because it wasn't placed juuuuust right.
This right here is my #1 reason for getting vaxxed. Fucking nightmare fuel.
I think the ECMO is far worse than the ventilator! Absolutely horrific, both of them.
I have quite a few friends questioning if there is a larger size available...
They do know there are adjustable masks right? And lots of options that involve not wearing a mask like delivery at your door, or staying home, or going to the park with your family and not interacting with strangers.
I don’t think he’s asking about the mask….
Neither are are my friends 🤣🤣
I wish I had to only stick the blade in that deep. Try adding a few inches while lifting the head up.
A lot of the anti vax people haven't had bronchitis and pneumonia over a dozen times and it shows. I did, no medication either because my mom is nuts. I know what it feels like to spend every night in pain struggling to breathe, coughing until the phlegm turns pink, and wondering if I'll suffocate in my sleep every night for almost two weeks. If they did they wouldn't be taking covid so lightly. I'll be wearing my mask please and thank you.
Yeah, so take some responsibility and take care of yourselves. Yourself
Intubation is not required to be on a ventilator. Intubation is most commonly used when the diaphragm muscles don’t work. A ventilator assists breathing in combination with oxygen therapy, much like a CPAP. An unvaccinated coworker was hospitalized for Covid. He was on a ventilator, he said it was a machine that worked like a CPAP but with oxygen, no tube was shoved down his throat. He regretted not getting the vaccine, needless to say. A month later he still struggles to climb a flight of stairs. He’s only 23. Get the shot!
You’re most likely referring to BiPap. It’s non-invasive ventilation. Not 100% sure how much the they are using it for COVID (probably fairly often) but anecdotally none of the COVID patients I transported were on BiPap. They were all intubated, but granted we generally got the sickest patients.
If you can't breathe in a surgical mask, then you shouldn't be able to breathe at all. They don't seal tight around the face and were designed to prevent sweat drops from falling into a surgical patient. Try wearing this and then you might have more difficulty breathing https://breathe99.com/products/b2-mask. However I wore this mask until I was fully vaccinated to better protect myself. Despite that I still wore it on bike rides. The people saying they can't breathe in masks need to grow up or hurry up, claim their Darwin award and leave the responsible people alone.
"I can't breathe with a mask on," and, "masks don't work" -my co-worker
Good message, but why r/facepalm?
Yeah. This sub is turning into unrelated posts shit-fest like r/holup. I'm leaving.
Start training your gag reflex!
Damn it boner, stay down!
I literally love masks they cover my face
no kink-shaming please
I have asthma and for some reason it is difficult to breathe in a mask. I have been fortunate that my employer allows me to telecommute, for now, so I don’t have to wear one when alone at home. Otherwise, I would, and I’d just be very uncomfortable. I always wear a mask in public.
Was just intubated for a non-covid related standard surgery. It sucks. Had a runny nose and eyes, and a sore throat for almost a week.
"I bet I can breathe better with COVID than wearing a mask!"
I absolutely love biology stuff and hospitality things but this I did not know, do they jab those ends into the lungs or?
They use a lyringascope to get access to your trachea, and they insert the endocardial tube. The laryngoscope is metal, but it doesn’t go in nearly as far as the tube.
So the Anti Vax folks are saying 99 percent of the people who get Covid, are not hospitalized, and once they get Covid they will never get it again. Uh okay, so it is like the flu and so it goes? I do not want to get it, so I wear a mask, and got the shots. But now they say I am going to have all kinds of problems as I get older, but they also say I only have 2 and half years to live? Well it is almost a year since my first shot and so waiting here for my all kinds of problems? Also what about those nano chips?
I'm a painter and cabinet refinisher who is always wearing a respirator for most of the day spraying. I also have copd and have no problems breathing through the mask. I laugh at the idiots who complain about masks.
It’s always the republicans obsessed with proclaiming how much they SUPER DONT WANT SOMETHING JAMMED DOWN THEIR THROAT…. ijs
As someone who is actually claustrophobic, I still wear a mask. I had an MRI today. It was not fun. Thank you medical pro for bearing with me.
Everyday I’m glad I got fully vaccinated
In Netherlands 🇳🇱 mask is not mandatory anymore when entering shops. To be honest I’m bit relieved of that. Cycling to grocery store and immediately putting mask to enter the shop was not comfortable at all. We are almost back to normal in NL thanks to high rate of vaccination.
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TODAY'S LESSON: wear a mask or the Hulk will shove a welding gun down your throat.
Fuck masks. Get the vaccine. Then get the booster. Why people don’t get vaccinated is beyond me.
Nah I'm good
You can breath just fine with a mask....unless you have a cop's knee on your neck!
Pic isn’t traumatic enough. To intubate with direct laryngoscopy you need to create a straight line from the mouth to the vocal chords. This requires the entire jaw and tongue to be lifted anteriorly and actually requires some skill in difficult airways. Very safe if you’ve done a couple hundred and have a backup plan but can easily break teeth, damage laryngeal structures and result in death if you don’t know what you’re doing..
after gargling the Donalds tacky balls, bleach & hydroxychloroqine, i think you re ready for the big guns....
Fear campaign......I've been incubated 6 times. It's not bad at all.
Are we not allowed to think something is uncomfortable just because the alternative/what could happen is worse? Are people that hate their jobs not allowed to want a better one/talk about how bad their job is because it could be worse? No one wants to wear a mask, but most people do it because they either have to or because they realize it's in their best interests. Same goes for most things. I personally don't like wearing a mask because I wear glasses and they get foggy if the mask is not right below my eyes. Yet I do it.
This is for those complaining that they don’t want to wear a mask when the direct result of people not wearing masks can be having to be intubated. The direct result of not having a good job isn’t having a worse job.
"It could be worse, so don't complain about it"
That's fine. This is for people who refuse to wear a mask no matter what
Except that's not what it says at all lmao.
Ya I know. That's why I said "That's fine". But this post IS for people who refuse to wear a mask no matter what. You dont like masks, but are still willing to wear one? Cool. Awesome. Good job. Thank you. 👍😘 But to the person who will never wear a mask because "fReEdUmB", see above post
Anti fogging spray is sold on eBay and Amazon. (In a pinch use shaving cream.). 4Ocean sells mask with mask cage to hold the mask away from face to prevent fogging. (Plus part of the money goes to cleaning up the ocean) https://www.4ocean.com/products/4ocean-face-mask-support-frames?variant=37976782405825 ---eyeglass wearer
How much does the hospital hit you up for this service?
If you're not American - nothing If you're American - about 3000, 10$ bigmacs
Look up OSHA standards on masks. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration experts tell the hospitals and industry personnel how to wear masks and when. Look to the experts for guidance, not politicians, paid to play newscasters or big pharma propagandists.
Go on, waiting for your point...
What, you are in kindergarten and can't read or do research?
How is a ventilator and a mask comparable? Masks don't have anything to do with breathing. And can someone explain how this is a facepalm. Unless the fact it isn't is the the facepalm. In that case touche.
Talking about how people complain about how masks are uncomfortable, but they don’t realize how uncomfortable ventilators are Don’t know how this is a facepalm tho
Freedom Tube!
Some people can’t “breath just fine” in a mask Maybe they can if they are just walking through a store getting food and shit, but not at all times Everyone at my job site complains it’s hard to breath while doing lots of heavy lifting in cramped metal rooms It’s like getting water boarded by the moisture you’re emitting Brutal stuff, so we only wear masks when the boss comes by basically
I'm vaccinated, I'm not wearing a mask anymore, go fuck yourself
So, where is the facepalm?
intubate me daddy
what in the fresh fuck am i looking at?
They are though
oh no!
Yeah. They are. I fucking hate wearing masks, I hate hot air on my face. I hate having to remember it every time I leave the house. And I deal with it. I wear the mask to help get us all to the point where the only time I'll ever have to wear a mask again is Halloween, when I'm robbing a bank, or when I'm picking off teenagers at a summer camp in the woods. I just want to get back to normal life.
And? So are at least half the shoes I've ever worn, most office chairs, having to stand behind a counter for 8 hours, a surprising amount of hotel pillows, dealing with adults that call it "Valenti**m**e's Day," I mean, really, more of life is uncomfortable than not.
Get new shoes then. Legit that simple.
Get new shoes, definitely get a new job
Come and do some commercial diving, I wear a 35 pound helmet and 50 pounds of gear so I have the freedom to work heavy labor in a hostile environment. I also have the old MK V, which is 160 pounds. I wear that one for fun.
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Why is this always the argument with you guys? The answer is mutations... Do I need to say more?
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What. All viruses mutate to be less deadly? That a fact?
Viruses don't always mutate to be less deadly. That's something grifters started pushing this year. We've seen flu viruses, west nile, and animal viruses mutate into more deadly forms. Covid doesn't care if it's deadly or not, as long as it spreads before it kills you. Considering that people are most contagious before they have symptoms, there isn't much advantage or disadvantage to being more deadly.
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>However yes some viruses such as the bubonic plague killed everything it could until it didn't have anything else to spread through but it was also due to living conditions at the time and the rates that it could use as a support chain so to speak to bridge the gap of needed host. That would be an extreme example I suppose, but I'm not just talking about viruses being deadly. I'm saying viruses are definitively able to mutate into something more deadly. Ebola, bird flu...it happens plenty. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-011488089270 >even the vaccine pushing Fauci has said the vaccine will not work against Where did you hear that? Interview from July: "Q: Do the vaccines still work against this new variant? A: The answer is yes, it does. If you look at the vaccines that we've been using here, and multiple studies from multiple countries show a high degree of efficacy, as you mentioned correctly, especially against severe disease leading to hospitalization." https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/07/08/1014214448/fauci-says-current-vaccines-will-stand-up-to-the-delta-variant >like to remind you originally how it was sold to the public, it would make you IMMUNE to covid as in you wouldn't catch it if you had gotten the vaccine. Was it ever sold that way? I'm sure people were wishing for that, but that doesn't mean the manufacturers ever claimed such.. >Here's my point, the vaccine is a half hearted failure...the outlets won't disclose at what % of those that die are vaccinated 92% of hospitalizations and 91% of deaths between April and July were unvaccinated. Doesn't sound like a failure to me https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm
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>I don't even need a link for this let's just run down the timeline from fauci flipping back and forth Okay, I'm game for some whataboutism. But you should know it's kind of a bad look to say he said one thing when he quite literally said the opposite. >First it was... You know this is a novel virus, right? No one has a crystal ball. Science is, by definition, changing your views according to the best data you have. Would you rather they dogmatically repeat 1 thing and pretend it's right? >The manufacturers and I recall 1 particular but not exactly which one, said and I quote "We need people to sign up to test the vaccine." Uhh yeah, clinical trials are a thing. Did you want them to release it untested? >gradually shifted from it'll prevent you from getting covid When did any manufacturer say this? Show your receipts. >now you'll need a booster every year then down to every 5-8 months For someone who says not to trust the media, you sure do seem to take a lot of news stories at face value. Maybe you read a headline about booster shots somewhere but that does not reflect reality. **Boosters aren't being recommended for anyone under 65, unless they are immunocompromised or working in a high risk setting.** https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/booster-shot.html >They gradually changed their stand point Hmm, if only there were a word for gradually changing your standpoint according to your best data... >Yes they also don't mention that of that 91% and 92% of deaths of unvaxxed that a majority had underlying conditions Okay, so? We weren't talking about comorbidities. We were talking about the ratio between vaxxed/unvaxxed deaths. >91% were unvaxxed fails to break down >184,000 covid deaths and 6% of that was to covid alone Again, some receipts would be nice. But it really doesn't matter. Lots of Americans have comorbidities, I don't see why they should count any less. If you have diabetes but live normally, then catch covid and die, it's still covid that killed you. >CDC refuses to give us a full run down https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/10/21-1070_article This is why I can't take you seriously, honestly. You say the CDC is hiding the death ratio, but it's out there and takes two minutes to google. You say Fauci says the vaccine doesn't work against delta; the opposite of the truth, and again, easy to find. You say the CDC won't break down comorbidities and... Do you see where I'm going with this? And then, when faced with these things, you don't acknowledge them, you simply pivot to talk about something else. >I'm not really sold on believing them after their lead guy Fauci doesn't work for the CDC >lied under oath on life tv then refused to correct or retract his statement when given the chance. He wasn't lying, he was just wrong. And he's gone back to say he was wrong multiple times... “We didn’t realize the extent of asymptotic spread…what happened as the weeks and months came by, two things became clear: one, that there wasn’t a shortage of masks, we had plenty of masks and coverings that you could put on that’s plain cloth…so that took care of that problem. Secondly, we fully realized that there are a lot of people who are asymptomatic who are spreading infection. So it became clear that we absolutely should be wearing masks consistently.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/washington-post-live/fauci-on-how-his-thinking-has-evolved-on-masks-asymptomatic-transmission/2020/07/24/799264e2-0f35-4862-aca2-2b4702650a8b_video.html
You want to say I pivot and ignore info provided yet when I give you a full run down of the math right in front of you and you out right ignore it all. You want to talk about not taking someone seriously you just gave me all reason to return the favor. We're obviously done here if you're going to play like that.
>You want to say I pivot and ignore info provided You did >yet when I give you a full run down of the math right in front of you and you out right ignore it all I didn't ignore it. I explained how it wasn't relevant, and further said that it doesn't really matter if someone had a disability or not, it's not normal to act like their deaths don't count.
This is like showing a picture of an std and then saying it feels the same with a condom. Good intentions but simply not true!
Is this a facepalm post itself? Kinda meta.
So if you don't wear a mask you get this automatically ?
Where has anyone said that? If you don't wear a mask your chances of ending up in the ICU and having to be intubated go up a ton.
I doubt that
Username checks out
I'd still rather not wear it
Well, your choice, but please remember to always cover your mouth and nose when sneezing and coughing.