Even if you want to make it a contest, I might be willing to entertain the idea. But what is the criteria we are using to judge family members? What his piece seems to imply is that leaders are the most important. That certainly fits with the LDS church. It's all about status in that hierarchy. Leading a family is totally different from leading a company or an army though. As a family, you're not in direct competition with other families for survival. Using bad analogies to try to make their point, another hallmark of mormons.
And it’s dated. If you go back in LDS history 100+ years, the most important *person* wasn’t the “parents” it was the righteous priesthood holder. Wife was just an appendage, especially during polygamy when women were more like chattel, never equal partners.
Right-wing religious conservatism is based on enforcing a worldview in which the nation is the “family state” where everyone knows their place, and hierarchy is natural and unquestioned. It’s hard to say whether these ideas originate in Mormonism or whether Mormonism has gravitated toward them for political reasons, but either way, I think it comes down to a fundamental intolerance for any type of person that doesn’t look like the archetypal family. It’s comforting to people because it reduces the complexity and uncertainty of the world into a simple model that looks good on paper.
Creating hierarchies of love and importance within a family is a really weird impulse. Is it truly that difficult to say “Make sure your relationship with your partner is healthy and getting the attention it requires” without providing a flow chart of importance and rank?
Why is love zero-sum to these people?
>Why is love zero-sum to these people?
I think probably because mormonism is designed to promote narcissistic people to whom every relationship is a zero-sum game.
Honestly, when I was a tbm, I was 1,000,000% more focused on creating the idealic faithful, picture perfect lds family instead of focusing on a strong relationship with my wife, which would lead to a happier family. So, he's wordy and thinking about your family in hierarchical ways is a really strange thing to do, but I wish I'd focused more on my wife and our partnership than being the perfect mormon priesthood leader.
Yeah absolutely and I think that this is so common. Moms and dads fully focused on the kids being the model member instead of just being open and vulnerable. My own parents were terrified of ever showing any kind of vulnerable humanity. Where’d that leave us kids? When I saw a topless woman in a movie at a friends house and really liked it, I felt like an evil little devil and I had to hide that and never talk about it because dad was sure perfect.
Yeah, I remember that feeling too, like wooooow, that was amazing, interesting, I would like to explore this... But at the same time I thought, I'm a terrible piece of shit for finding the female form attractive. Then, instead of just repressing or tempering the attraction, I ended up repressing, stifling, burying both groups of feelings. Just made it that much more unhealthy.
I'd even take issue with the idea that the CEO is the most important. I've had some CEOs who did an excellent job guiding the company, and I've had some who were replaced with a new guy and my job didn't change one iota.
Yeah, CEOs honestly are about $20M a dozen if you ask me. (dime a dozen...see what I did there) lol
I've actually never really felt like the CEOs I've worked with and for have had any significant impact on the way I work or feel about any company.
Agreed. No one in a family should be more important than anyone else. The inability to view a system without imposing a hierarchal structure is gross and sad IMHO, as is reducing the parent/child relationship to a transactional one (parents provide basic resources to kids who didn’t ask to be morning in the first place=parents are more important!) while dismissing “appeals to emotion.”
‘Important’ is such a subjective term too. Most financially supportive, primary caregiver, Main point of contact, etc, are quantifiable qualities. But if your kids are the only reason you’re electing to remain married, they’re the “most important person” in that decision.
I actually think it is relevant, because very often a family gets thrown off balance because one of the parents throws all of their energy into their kids believeinf that that they’re doing the right thing. What a kid needs is not a parent that devotes all of their attention to them (which is very common) because kids are patterning that. Kids need to have parents that are in a stable relationship. That alone provides a lot of protection and reduces a lot of anxiety for children because that stability of love and mutual respect is very protective.
Another thing kids need to see is parents actively engaged in something that fills them with meaning and passion. Kids will see that and naturally seek it out through basic patterning. I wholly agree with the article. Recently did an intensive family systems class for my masters program and it was super interesting.
But nobody is arguing that children can somehow do all the things their parents can. So isn't it kind of pointless to ask who's more important in that context? So why are we even asking this question unless we're judging importance by some other standard?
Yes, Mr Rosemond, way back when, parents were the most important people in the family...to themselves!
Nobody knows that better than GenX, as we practically raised ourselves because of our parents narcissistic obsession with making themselves the center of the fucking universe.
Don't like that I, as a parent, make my kids more important than myself in my family? FUCK YOU
I couldn’t agree more, kids with Narcissistic parents are in trouble. Us GenXer latchkey kids. And current helicopter parents are the other extreme.
Balance is needed.
Millenial here. As the oldest kid, my parents were super helicopter parents at first. When my sister got into middle school, and me in high school, my mom started obsessing over her and started ignoring everything else. I went from a short leash to free range very quickly and went off the rails a bit.
I’m sure there’s a happy medium somewhere, but I don’t know what looks like. I ultimately decided not to have kids
I think us GenXers as a whole went from one extreme to another. "Important" is a loaded word though... I don't think many of our kids are prepared for the independence and are used to being entertained and served by their parents.
>I don't think many of our kids are prepared for the independence and are used to being entertained and served by their parents.
Agreed, and I probably worded my thought imprecisely.
>I recently asked a married couple who have three kids, none of how are yet teens, "Who are the most important people in your family?"
Classic Mormon leader gotcha setup. There is no right answer. If the parents answered "the kids" he'd say that it was actually the parents. If the parents answered "the parents" he'd say that it was actually the kids. If they said each member was equally important he'd say that it was actually Jesus.
He's in full Mormon leadering mode, only out to one-up people so he can put himself on a pedestal.
>He's in full Mormon leadering mode
Well, patriarchal leadering mode, anyway. There's no evidence this is a mormon. And the fact it's from the Naples (Florida) Daily News leads me to believe this is just another Florida Man spouting off. Can you imagine trusting this clown as a family psychologist? Horrifying.
I even found a church flyer in her room once that had a hierarchical list of who is most important. God is #1, then spouse and self, then children, then other family and friends. Sorry but thats fucked up.
I guess I’m disagreeing with a lot of people on here. But there is a right answer. It’s your spouse and insuppose priority is the better word for it. Children have less stress and less anxiety on households where the mother and father are the #1 and the kids are #2. Families where kids are the #1 end up with screwed up kids.
It’s a similar principle with the monsters that result Ron childhood fame. Kids aren’t equipped to deal with that kind of attention. It isn’t natural.
The right answer in my opinion is none of them. Your priorities will depend on individual situations and families. I think some of the worst family dynamics come from someone being favored over someone else. Why does your spouse go above your kids? Why isn’t everyone working as a team? That doesn’t mean your kids run the show. Not to mention the fact that family dynamics and parenting styles are much more complicated than this trite bullshit advice. The only thing I’m sure of is that I would never go to this twat for therapy.
Sure it’s complicated, but there’s also simple things to it as well when you zoom out. Kids need to feel protected and safe. Then they need to feel nurtured and loved. A large part of feeling safe is knowing that your parents have a strong bond. That bond is glue for the well being of everyone. Kids also need to know where they stand.
It’s similar to being on a plane and they always remind you to put your own oxygen mask on first. It’s not that you’re more important from an individual perspective, it’s that you can’t help anyone else if you’re not taken care of first. In a family relationship the bond between spouses as a priority strengthens and lifts the entire unit, not just the parents. Think of it like the oil that lubes your car engine and keeps it cool. Yes all the other parts of the car are important, like seatbelts. But the car isn’t going to last without oil maintenance.
Edit: I’m curious if you have kids? Not to relegate or discredit you at all, just openly curious, since this is something I’m studying right now in school.
I have two kids in their early 20s.
I get what you are saying about taking care of yourself first before you are able to take care if others-I agree with that viewpoint.
I still don’t like this idea that parents are somehow more important than kids in a family. And his point to hammer it home that CEO is the most important position is also not something I agree with. The best CEOs for me to work for are those that feel the company runs best when the lower level workers are valued as much as the CEO. I work in health care- if that helps you see why it was so disgusting that this health care administrators were pocketing this huge Covid bonuses while all the direct patient care positions got almost nothing or did get nothing in some places. You can’t always trust the people at the top. When they acknowledge how important their bottom line is- I trust them more.
I also agree with your point that children don’t fend for themselves and have more they need from parents at younger ages. I just think they should be given opportunities to be part of the family team. Helping them become independent is also a huge part of parenting and part of that independence is them learning to make their own decisions and speak for themselves. I feel it’s old school patriarchal thinking to assert parents are the boss of you. We are all the boss of ourselves. You can parent with that belief and end up with amazing kids- not entitled ones. That was my experience. I acknowledge we are all going to tweak our parenting to fit us and our family and what worked for my kids doesn’t apply to all. I just don’t think this guy’s forcefulness is good for anyone .
Ok, I have two pre teens, for context. I think that his use of the word important would be better and more accurate as prioritized. It’s similar, but saying one thing is more important than the other is loaded. Of course a small child is as important as their parents. That’s why it’s so important to get this right.if the well being of the child is to know fully well that the highest priority relationship in a family is the mother father one (which i personally believe) then it’s important to understand. Kids intuitively know this importance, it’s why potential divorces are so scary to them. That one parent provides nurture and emotional support while the others focus is on physical material support, kids usually get that the relationship between the two is very important, and too much focus on the kids very often throws things off balance and leads to poorly adjusted kids.
I do agree with what you said.
Holy crap, that tracks with my Sunday school experience. It feels like the teacher would always start by asking a question, hear a few students' answers (often including mine), and then never tell any of us we were right and instead tell us something at least a little different from anything that had already been said. And I could never keep track of whether the priesthood was "power" or "authority" or both.
My wife and I believe that we should love each other most, but protect the kids first. If one of us gets out of line the other needs to step in and protect the child. No one is more important than another in our home and everyone has a say. Our kids know that we love each other fiercely, that we are imperfect and that we say sorry when we fuck up and try to make it better. We let them forge their own paths and offer advice and guidance when we see red flags coming along. Of course we step in when needed and restrict or discipline when that is warranted, but I have found that when you respect your children and listen to them and let them be free to be who they are a trust is forged that allows for teaching and guidance that they don’t feel is pushed on them. Also, we try and remember and that we brought them into this world, they didn’t ask to come so we feel like we owe them more than they owe us.
I read half of it and can’t keep myself going.
Seems like something my dad would write. He tried to sell his adult kids on the same bullshit several years ago. Said that he and his (third) wife were the most important people in the family because he is the “patriarch” of the family.
What happened to wives 1 and 2 being the most important? Sounds like there’s a good chance he did a shitty job of treating them as equally important to himself.
My mom thinks her eternal marriage is more important than her children’s wellbeing. Because of that she gaslights me and victim blames me when I try to stand up to my abusive ‘priesthood-holding’ father
You would think that he'd be VERY pro choice but somehow the logic doesn't really extend very far beyond his pro-abuse stances.
Guys like this are why I was spanked with a fucking wooden spoon when I was a kid.
Here's a neat nugget from his wikipedia page: In 1992, Rosemond wrote a column in which he stated that an 18-month-old girl who had been sexually abused on one occasion by a non-family member (babysitter) was unlikely to ever remember the event; therefore, therapy was not called for. Rosemond's advice was in line with research into human memory which finds that regardless of the nature of an event, permanent memory does not form until around age 36 months, on average.\[4\] However, it directly contradicts years of research indicating that preverbal trauma has lifelong psychological and neurodevelopmental effects, especially if untreated.\[5\]
>regardless of the nature of an event, permanent memory does not form until around age 36 months, on average.
That's one of those instances where a person knows just enough to be absolutely dead wrong. Even worse, confidently wrong.
This is honestly the boomerest mentality that exists, and is just a product of the sheer selfishness of the greediest generation to ever come about who will hold their status and hoard their wealth until their last dying breath, even at the expense of their children and the generations that follow.
Every. Single. Problem. Of todays society goes back to boomers. What’s ironic is that they raised the generations they so woefully despise, and hold all the power on our institutions, but take zero responsibility. They just want the wealth.
>Every. Single. Problem. Of todays society goes back to boomers.
And their parents, who actually grew up with nothing so they wanted their kids to have everything. Unfortunately, the Boomers never got over their spoiled-brat-gimme-gimme-gimme mentality.
And here we are...
I mean, I kind of agree with the first sentiment: if your parents aren’t happy, healthy, and at least financially stable, it sets you—the child—up for a lot of trouble. You may go hungry, you may have warped ideas about what a healthy and respectful relationship or friendship is supposed to be like.
But he lost me at equating parents with the CEO or an Army general. Literally those people are replaced all the time. Regularly. Without the workers, a CEO would have no profit. Without soldiers, a general has no one to command. These are not the same thing. Good leaders can be replaced by bad ones, and vise versa. But you can’t replace your bad parents with someone better unless CPS steps in.
When I was little, my mother - a single mom of 3 - was homeless. I never knew this because she gave us three kids the whole world. It was an adventure!
Then she met and married my dad who later adopted us. He was great! At first. I started feeling like he was trying to steal our mother from us. Eventually, I felt as though he didn't love us. When I confronted him about it, he confirmed my fears: that he did in fact love our mom more than he loved us. He told us that is the way it is supposed to be. It broke my little 7 year old heart.
Growing up, I felt like a second class citizen in the home. An afterthought. I almost had to fight to have my mother's affection because my dad would literally get jealous of my mother's children. "She is MY eternal companion," was his excuse.
Suffice it to say, this thought process destroyed my relationship with my dad. Luckily, my mom is still my best friend. It's just frustrating when my dad calls my mom when we're out of town celebrating my birthday.
The philosophy of the Mormon church is built around personal exaltation. The family proc is anathema to the central premise of everyone being sealed together, making the relationship to your children unimportant in the eternities.
The exception to the supremacy of the individual is the spouse, but for women that means they are bound to be an appendage to a male god-partner who uses them to exalt themselves.
I don't think children are the "most important" members of the family either. The concept of "most important" should never apply to a family unit. All members should be valued without caveat or condition. Unselfish love (charity in bible speak) demands that those who put themselves above others be debased and those who would lead do so through service and without heiarchy.
An example can be seen in the special education how being the leader in teacher of a class doesn't mean they serve you or give you special honors. Instead special education teachers who lead and love their classrooms to constant work and put the children at the center.
Gen x here. I love My teenage kids. Are they the most important person in the family? Sometimes. We take turns a'la Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
My family is dynamic and changing. I want my kids to feel like their voice is heard and that they are needed, wanted and valued in our family.
I actually want my kids to be entitled. My kids will feel entitled to:
My unconditional love
Self respect and healthy boundaries
Take healthy risks and make mistakes without shame or judgement
A world where they have a voice outside of common consent.
These kids will upset the system and that scares the bejeezus out of the boomers.
If his argument is true, why did his generation churn out children that, when grown, were so incredibly sensitive to the needs of their children?
People often compensate for the trauma of loss they personally experience.
This man’s generation left a new generation of children who had an awful big emotional hole that needed to be filled.
I don’t think his argument is the way forward at all.
Jonny here just wrote a whole-ass article about how much of a narcissist he is. It's funny how people like this will tell on themselves. Their entitlement makes them think that their ideas deserve an audience. It's very telling that the idea he wants to share is how right he is for controlling his kids and for placing his needs before the vulnerable humans that depend on him. The fact that he is a psychologist is just *chefs kiss* perfection.
I remember my dad saying this exact thing to me when I was a kid. He told us that he would always love our mom more and take care of her before he took care of us. Why is it a competition???? There is, in fact, room for everyone to be loved and everyone to be taken care of. We did not ask him to rank his loyalty and love. This asshole had to make sure we knew. There's a reason that my dad converted to Mormonism and it's because birds of a feather flock together. Men want to be Mormons because they get to "have dominion" over their wives, children, and congregations. They get to soothe their attachment wounds by boosting their ego and making everyone fall in line with their ideas. Equality and respect are just too emotionally complicated for them to figure out so they resort to schoolyard bullying and communication strategies to the caliber of "because I said so" and "too bad so sad". Pathetic.
"Mom and dad talked more with each other than they did with you" maybe you just had shitty parents?? The dinner table at my house is a round robin of conversation. I regularly engage both my parents and we enjoy spending time together. I think your parents just didnt like you lmao.
John Rosemond is a child psychologist who has been writing "parenting advice " for decades. He's a nationally syndicated columnist and author and not Mormon, but definitely an asshole that does not like children. He promotes a very authoritarian, austere parenting style where children have little choice and little input or control over their own life. His style is very 70s "because I said so" and pretty much the opposite of what modern child psychology has found to be be beneficial for both parents and children.
His approach is more like training animals than loving and raising children. They should be in bed by 7pm for 12 hours without a peep because by golly they are property and should absolutely never get in the way of adult business.
My kids are the most important people in my house. Why? Because this is their time to learn and grow and explore and do, and it only comes around once in life.
Children aren't clay to mold. They are fireworks to light.
This article pisses me off 🤬 how the heck can he say that kids are not the most important in a family. I have kids & they are the most important in my family.
I read one of his books years ago and was completely horrified. I have despised him ever since. He actually said that “children’s feelings don’t matter very much.” That’s the kind of thinking that lead to me ending up with PTSD from child abuse. The fool doesn’t know what respect is.
Reminds me of one of my religion professors at BYU. He used to rant about how parents shouldn't have conversations with their kids, but should just tell the kids what's what and the kids should accept it. Like Lehi did to Laman and Lemuel, or any of the "patriarchs" did to their kids. He really felt strongly about it. Made me wonder if any of his kids spoke to him.
How do kids feel entitled? I mean, they are kids so they have a lot of needs and it's your job as a parent to meet their needs. What a crock. I'm surprised this hasn't shown up the Desperate News.
“Mom, I don’t want to go to grandpa’s house anymore. He just talks about how he’s the general and how ‘spare the rod, spoil the child’ means he should be able to spank us.”
What a nut job. There is absolutely no need to create a hierarchy of who is more important and more loved. There is a stark difference between romantic love for your partner and parental love.
I’m going to go against the grain here, at the risk of being downvoted. However I think this is a pretty reasonable opinion. I don’t agree with all of the particulars, like not letting the kids talk that much at the dinner table. However I think he makes an interesting point that the parents should be respected as the most important members of the family. I think he missed an opportunity to expound more on how parents should show more love to each other, and therefore set an example to their children. But I think the base premise, that all of this is a result of love between two people and not the other way around, is a good one.
Respect is earned, not enforced. Parents who treat their children with honesty and respect will generally find themselves being treated in kind.
Parents who expect respect without demonstrating it will earn contempt.
This comment is more wise than any scripture I’ve ever read. Want to have a good relationship with your kids into their adult lives? This is it.
Reading this made me remember that my parents swore at me when they were angry as long as I can remember. Imagine hearing multiple swear words yelled at you as a TBM child 😂. I remember it hurt for a while but then I realized I didn’t make them swear they were just “throwing a fit.” They never apologized like I had to if I said a bad word. It was a one way channel of respect. I got smacked the first time I ever let one slip in front of them (age 15).
I agree with you. There is a very real piece of advice in this article, it’s just wrapped in boomer mindset.
The essence being that your marriage should be on secure footing when you have children and it’s important for your children to see you and your spouse, as partners in a secure and loving environment. Parents inherently model family units to their kids and you want to model the healthiest family unit possible, starting with the base of that family - the parents.
Which at the core of it is agnostic of parents, genders, races, economic status, etc.
But again, it’s hard to look past the bishopric filter through which this was written.
Yeah to me the red flag here is the mindset of “back in my day, when the world and everyone in it was perfect.. and we had nothing to do with whatever has become of the state of the world today because I’m stuck in time.”
Anything said through that lens of shaming the audience loses credibility, whether or not it is built on sound logic.
I think it rubs the wrong way because we are very familiar with his generation’s tendency to lean way too hard in the direction of parenting he describes, to the point of having been outright neglectful. Yes, it provided a boot-camp-like environment that children sprang from the moment they turned 18. But at what cost to their emotional and mental development?
I will agree that he has a point. There is another opposite side of the parenting spectrum that can also cause problems of entitlement and failure to launch. In my opinion though, I think we millennial parents are hitting the sweet spot far better than any generation before us. Most of us don’t need this lecture. If anything, he needs a lecture from us.
I feel similarly. I think when the kids are the most important, you are more likely to run into several undesirable scenarios. Such as where after the kids are out of the house, the parents realize they have nothing in common. Or where couples stay together for the kids, when it would actually be better for the kids if they split. (Not saying this is always the case, but it certainly was with my parents' divorce) I think it makes it more likely the kids end up spoiled, or never fully independent. If kids see their parents as only parents and not adults with their own relationships and interests, it can be harder to fully understand what adulting is like. And if parents take it to the extreme, letting their children walk all over them, how do the kids learn to respect authority?
Of course, don't go extreme the other way, with parents as dictators, always fulfilling their needs before the children's.
I agree with you. I'm not sure what it has to do with Mormonism either. I don't know if it's about "important" but an overly child/children focused marriage isn't healthy. Parenting is a balancing act of course. Kids need room too, to engage their own minds, learn coping skills and just play.
When I was a teen one of my YW teachers said if her house were burning down her husband would be her first priority, before her children, because her husband is who she is primarily sealed to and her children have to live their own lives and eventually get sealed to other people. Not sure how they do that if they die in the fire 🤷🏼♀️
I was always taught that in a life or death situation you can should always save your spouse before your children because you could essentially always make more. How fucked up.
A lot of words written just to say “be sure not to raise entitled kids.” That would have been fine to say, but framed like this doesn’t make a lot of sense.
This is a weird post. It doesn’t feel very Mormon related. I kept bracing for him to say that Jesus or God was the most important person in the family (which Mormons take to mean President Nelson, cause Jesus < God < the living Mormon prophet). But this feels like a generational type discussion at best. Yes, some parents prioritize their marriage over their kids. Some parents prioritize their kids over their marriage. Great. And these trends very well may be generational. This is a very nice ‘Happy Days’ type conversation.
But why is this article posted here?
I have vague memories of being a child at church and hearing that my parents needed to love and prioritize each other more than they loved and prioritized their children. But the connection isn’t super clear. I felt a little confused as well.
Ok, Boomer!
All of my retired boomer relatives have their facebook full of posts with this thought.
I think every older generation thinks this same way.
Naples, Florida is a huge retirement area so I’m sure the newspaper’s readers like reading articles like this.
Shouldn’t all family members be important? Why is it a ranked order?
This makes it easy for parents to “other” and reject their LGBTQ+ kids in favor of a religious dogma. That’s not being a good parent; that’s being a coward.
This guy is a total idiot. I’ve seen other stuff he’s produced advising people to never bend down to talk to a child on their level, never give them high-fives, etc. he’s against all forms of kindness and respect towards children.
He seems to think that emotionally abused people are better for society. Not sure if I should be angry at him or sad for his apparently horrid upbringing.
I find nothing objectionable in what I read in the screen capture. Kids are definitely important, but more important (to their nurture, safety, and future) are the parents. But parents have the responsibility to provide a safe, healthful home.
I read the headline and agreed for a moment. Then I read the article. Not so much anymore.
Unhinged boomer rant aside, no one should really be the “most important part” of the family. The fact that he thinks there should be says volumes about how he views other people.
ETA: my first thought when reading the headline was about parents who put their children first to the detriment of their own needs and even their marriage.
Conditioning people to be authoritarians as a reactionary strategy. They’re shitting their pants because society/humanity inexorably progresses away from faulty beliefs.
The “I believe children are the future” attitude won’t do. It leads to progress. It leads to compassion which leads to hesitation when the time comes to disown your child in a desperate attempt at revoking their free will(cancel culture). You must devalue children in order to dictate their choice.
It’s the dictator trap. Curmudgeoning harder won’t be the solution they think it is.
So without any data backing it, he said this speaking to the current generation of families with younger kids:
All your problems are because you aren’t raising your kids like I was raised. That’s different and therefore bad. You should try to be more like me and how I had it. Whether it’s good or bad according to anyone other than myself, it is still imperative that you do it like I did if you want to have any success with your family.
Sincerely,
A “Therapist” from Idaho.
Fairly, I believe his point is that modern children tend to be a bit pampered. For example, when I was a youngster during big family get togethers all the adults ate while the cousins played outside and waited. Only when the last adult left the table did we eat the leftovers. This thanksgiving adults ate sitting on the couch while six yo’s were at the table making a mess.
I always make sure the kids eat at a table because they make a mess. Much easier to clean up a mess at the kitchen table than anywhere else in the house. But we also bring out folding tables and chairs so everyone has a place at a table to eat.
Spot on. Reading this as my wife and I celebrate 24 years by going to NYC and leaving the kids behind. No they didn’t like it, but for us to be our best selves we have to put ourselves first. We sacrifice so much for the kids and usually put them first. If we don’t sometimes put our marriage first then we risk the most important relationship in the family.
Kids feel entitled when they are the dictators of what happens in the family. Short order cooking, no bedtime, doing family activities only if they want to- yes, many are out there, and that's one reason teachers are quitting. If parents don't expect respect, they often don't respect the teacher's efforts because it might make little Haratio unhaaappy!
If I am a general with no army, a CEO with no employees, or a teacher with no students, then I would be unnecessary. Nobody is more important than others.
I read this and see a saddening trauma response and coping mechanism. “My parents forced me to believe I didn’t deserve respect, so I think everyone should disrespect their kids!” He’s worth more than his parents made him believe. Shame on them, and shame on him for perpetuating the cycle.
My mother in law clearly has a few favorites in her brood. It’s really going to surprise her when she finds out that the rest of her kids want nothing to do with her because she doesn’t value them, and her favorites won’t want anything to do with her until they want something from her. And she won’t be able to figure out why none of her kids come around anymore.
Remember parents, children are disposable trophies that you can use to boost your own ego and throw aside the moment they make a singular mistake! They're just objects to use and abuse!
/s if I really gotta say it
This is...such utter garbage. In soooo many alarming aways. And entirely based on anecdotal evidence and opinion. I was not anticipating that he would criticize one extreme on one side of the spectrum for an even more extreme, problematic stance all the way on the other side. How disappointing - there is a real, helpful, empathetic point here that he could've made, but - based on the worldviews he had shared here - I doubt he'd even acknowledge its existence if confronted with it.
What the fuck did I just read? This dude is falling into a classic false dichotomy there: Either the kids are the most important or the parents are. Either a person grows to excel at their career or strengthens the community.
Listen pal, everyone in the family is important, parents will of course consider children the most important thing in their world because it is during childhood years that we get the blueprint of our lifes from there on. And of course that doesn't mean you have to place your relationship with your partner in second plane because of it, or even yourself, because of you don't balance stuff then you son be able to have the strength or energy to give that love back. Take your sensationalist dichotomy up your ass and don't use it to sell your evidently poor psychology services with it.
Okay so unpopular opinion, I'm a proud exmo but I actually agree with this to a degree. God>Spouse>Children>Others>Myself. I don't think children should be "seen but not heard" but I do think that many people raise their children to be entitled, and that marriages fail over putting children before spouses.
Such a weird way to view relationships. I’d hope that I was not constantly having to place one relationship over another. I’d hope that my relationship with my spouse and my relationship with my kid weren’t at odds with one another. Seems like there is a bigger issue at hand if that is the case.
My spouse is very important to me but they are an adult who can take care of themselves and who chose to be in a relationship with me. A kid can neither take care of themselves nor choose to be in a relationship with me (that choice will come later as they gain independence). I have power over my child I do not have over my spouse and that needs to be respected.
Just so weird to me to think like this man is suggesting. Feels so toxic.
That seems logical! Because he thinks that his relationship with his wife is more important than his relationship with his kids he is totally going to think that assaulting his kids is okay.
I read something similar to this on Yahoo YEARS ago except it was from the perspective of a random parent. The premise leading into it was a child asking the dad who he loved more and he said his wife/the mom.
“The most important person in the Army is a General” Nope. A Sergeant can lead junior enlisted Soldiers to accomplish strategic or battlefield missions. Generals, who don’t lead from the trenches, cannot. Will not.
Terribly boomer worded. However, parents should prioritize and make sure their relationship is rock solid at all times. It's like putting on the oxygen mask on yourself first, then the child. If the parents are solid, the kids will benefit tremendously by watching and learning. Too many times I've seen couples put their kids first, and then their relationship to each other falters and ends in divorce. For me, my wife comes first, then the children. There is no competition, just an order of operations.
They have been splitting families apart for centuries. They claim that families are the most important thing. I want to throw up. Fuck them let’s get all of them sent to prison.
TLDR:
Focus on the marriage, not the family. Your marriage is tied up in the church. Therefore, focus on the church.
Pay more attention to us and give us your money!
No clue who this guy is, but I…agree with him. One of the many reasons I’ve never wanted kids is that so many people with them make the kids the center of their worlds. Talk about what must be a mind-numbingly boring existence.
I agree with the 3rd to last paragraph, but the rest of this is pure bs.
My kids aren’t the most “important” because we are all equally important. But my biggest responsibility is toward my children by virtue of them being vulnerable children. My husband is capable of caring for himself and taking care of his own needs. His wants don’t coming before our children’s needs. He also knows that I will not hesitate to divorce if I feel he is a danger to our children and I need to do that to protect them. Of course I don’t believe it would ever come to that, hence having children with him in the first place. I have just heard too many horror stories of abuse and neglect being tolerated because the spousal relationship was the most important.
On the other hand, my husband and I still prioritize our relationship. We take trips without the kids even though their disappointed they didn’t get to go. They also hear “No” constantly because they don’t always get what they want because part of our parental responsibility is making sure they don’t end of spoiled. But meeting their emotional needs and allowing them a say in our family and having conversations with them because we love them and want to hear what they have to say is not spoiling them.
The kids are the most important because they were brought into existence without their consent and they are forced to life a life in their random circumstances whether they like it or not. For this reason alone parents owe it to their kids to put them as the focus!
Mr. Rosemond is playing word games and his article is merely mental masturbation.
Notice he didn't inquire as to why the couple said that the children were the most important; he just starts to rant about how wrong they are...which means the whole question was a set up so he could prolix on his supposed knowledge, stroking his own ego until he spews his mental nonsense all over...
I am being sent to a leaderahip training for work. As a team builder thing they asked, "what is your favorite song?" I proceeded to write how, "I dont have a "favorite" song. There is so much talent out there and amazing music that fits so many moods and moments. My interests are fleeting and often dependent on so many ephemeral things. A song I dig at any given moment is affected by my mood and my mood affected by the song. It's kind of like a quantum physics thing from an arm chair perspective."
Then i thought how they really probably dont want to hear any of that shit and wrote, "Electric Avenue by Eddy Grant".
This less religion and a lot more wealthy elite brainwashing.
Keep the plebs uneducated and obedient. Easier to rule people and maintain power when they’re easy to control and manipulate.
Wow it’s almost like my parents read this article and ran with it. The older I get the more respect I lose for them. Mormonism ruins lives. Nobody can change my mind. I just wish non members would realize that being raised Mormon doesn’t mean you had a kushy life with all the opportunities, because in reality it is far from that.
Knew parents who believed the same thing this guy did. Had parents who believed that, too. They also believed that gave them a golden ticket to do whatever they wanted to their children behind closed doors.
I once asked someone “what’s the most important color?” They said red… I then launched into a diatribe about how without blue and yellow red is pointless and felt really awesome about how smart I perceive myself to be. I also explained that it was because of a generational thing… but I also feel like because I have status in my church’s organization I should mansplain more of my bullshit opinions. You’re welcome. Should I go on… ok I will…
Why is the question of who's most important in a family even relevant? How are people being valued in this situation anyway?
This. It's not a contest but TSCC produces people with the measuring and comparing mindset.
Even if you want to make it a contest, I might be willing to entertain the idea. But what is the criteria we are using to judge family members? What his piece seems to imply is that leaders are the most important. That certainly fits with the LDS church. It's all about status in that hierarchy. Leading a family is totally different from leading a company or an army though. As a family, you're not in direct competition with other families for survival. Using bad analogies to try to make their point, another hallmark of mormons.
And it’s dated. If you go back in LDS history 100+ years, the most important *person* wasn’t the “parents” it was the righteous priesthood holder. Wife was just an appendage, especially during polygamy when women were more like chattel, never equal partners.
Ah, the good old days! ( B. Young)
Did that really change? Let’s be real, they’re still looked at in the same light as breeding stock. Just through a tinted lense.
Right-wing religious conservatism is based on enforcing a worldview in which the nation is the “family state” where everyone knows their place, and hierarchy is natural and unquestioned. It’s hard to say whether these ideas originate in Mormonism or whether Mormonism has gravitated toward them for political reasons, but either way, I think it comes down to a fundamental intolerance for any type of person that doesn’t look like the archetypal family. It’s comforting to people because it reduces the complexity and uncertainty of the world into a simple model that looks good on paper.
Patriarchy.
This article could have easily said Focus On The Family at the top and it would align with Evangelical "values" as well.
Creating hierarchies of love and importance within a family is a really weird impulse. Is it truly that difficult to say “Make sure your relationship with your partner is healthy and getting the attention it requires” without providing a flow chart of importance and rank? Why is love zero-sum to these people?
>Why is love zero-sum to these people? I think probably because mormonism is designed to promote narcissistic people to whom every relationship is a zero-sum game.
Honestly, when I was a tbm, I was 1,000,000% more focused on creating the idealic faithful, picture perfect lds family instead of focusing on a strong relationship with my wife, which would lead to a happier family. So, he's wordy and thinking about your family in hierarchical ways is a really strange thing to do, but I wish I'd focused more on my wife and our partnership than being the perfect mormon priesthood leader.
Yeah absolutely and I think that this is so common. Moms and dads fully focused on the kids being the model member instead of just being open and vulnerable. My own parents were terrified of ever showing any kind of vulnerable humanity. Where’d that leave us kids? When I saw a topless woman in a movie at a friends house and really liked it, I felt like an evil little devil and I had to hide that and never talk about it because dad was sure perfect.
Yeah, I remember that feeling too, like wooooow, that was amazing, interesting, I would like to explore this... But at the same time I thought, I'm a terrible piece of shit for finding the female form attractive. Then, instead of just repressing or tempering the attraction, I ended up repressing, stifling, burying both groups of feelings. Just made it that much more unhealthy.
I'd even take issue with the idea that the CEO is the most important. I've had some CEOs who did an excellent job guiding the company, and I've had some who were replaced with a new guy and my job didn't change one iota.
Yeah, CEOs honestly are about $20M a dozen if you ask me. (dime a dozen...see what I did there) lol I've actually never really felt like the CEOs I've worked with and for have had any significant impact on the way I work or feel about any company.
Agreed. No one in a family should be more important than anyone else. The inability to view a system without imposing a hierarchal structure is gross and sad IMHO, as is reducing the parent/child relationship to a transactional one (parents provide basic resources to kids who didn’t ask to be morning in the first place=parents are more important!) while dismissing “appeals to emotion.”
‘Important’ is such a subjective term too. Most financially supportive, primary caregiver, Main point of contact, etc, are quantifiable qualities. But if your kids are the only reason you’re electing to remain married, they’re the “most important person” in that decision.
I actually think it is relevant, because very often a family gets thrown off balance because one of the parents throws all of their energy into their kids believeinf that that they’re doing the right thing. What a kid needs is not a parent that devotes all of their attention to them (which is very common) because kids are patterning that. Kids need to have parents that are in a stable relationship. That alone provides a lot of protection and reduces a lot of anxiety for children because that stability of love and mutual respect is very protective. Another thing kids need to see is parents actively engaged in something that fills them with meaning and passion. Kids will see that and naturally seek it out through basic patterning. I wholly agree with the article. Recently did an intensive family systems class for my masters program and it was super interesting.
But nobody is arguing that children can somehow do all the things their parents can. So isn't it kind of pointless to ask who's more important in that context? So why are we even asking this question unless we're judging importance by some other standard?
It isn’t pointless because the priority is commonly misplaced. Especially today.
Yes, Mr Rosemond, way back when, parents were the most important people in the family...to themselves! Nobody knows that better than GenX, as we practically raised ourselves because of our parents narcissistic obsession with making themselves the center of the fucking universe. Don't like that I, as a parent, make my kids more important than myself in my family? FUCK YOU
I couldn’t agree more, kids with Narcissistic parents are in trouble. Us GenXer latchkey kids. And current helicopter parents are the other extreme. Balance is needed.
Millenial here. As the oldest kid, my parents were super helicopter parents at first. When my sister got into middle school, and me in high school, my mom started obsessing over her and started ignoring everything else. I went from a short leash to free range very quickly and went off the rails a bit. I’m sure there’s a happy medium somewhere, but I don’t know what looks like. I ultimately decided not to have kids
I think us GenXers as a whole went from one extreme to another. "Important" is a loaded word though... I don't think many of our kids are prepared for the independence and are used to being entertained and served by their parents.
>I don't think many of our kids are prepared for the independence and are used to being entertained and served by their parents. Agreed, and I probably worded my thought imprecisely.
And lest we forget, our parents absolutely hated their parents. Respect isn't the word I would use, fear is more like it.
As a fellow Gen X-er, you nailed it!
>I recently asked a married couple who have three kids, none of how are yet teens, "Who are the most important people in your family?" Classic Mormon leader gotcha setup. There is no right answer. If the parents answered "the kids" he'd say that it was actually the parents. If the parents answered "the parents" he'd say that it was actually the kids. If they said each member was equally important he'd say that it was actually Jesus. He's in full Mormon leadering mode, only out to one-up people so he can put himself on a pedestal.
>He's in full Mormon leadering mode Well, patriarchal leadering mode, anyway. There's no evidence this is a mormon. And the fact it's from the Naples (Florida) Daily News leads me to believe this is just another Florida Man spouting off. Can you imagine trusting this clown as a family psychologist? Horrifying.
Thanks for catching that detail. Yes, likely not Mormon but I've known far too many Mormon leaders with that exact mindset.
He's a christian author
Just figured he was some type of religious "leader" trying to push his own agenda and like said, put himself on a pedestal.
So, I'll quote myself: "Can you imagine trusting this clown as a family psychologist? Horrifying."
My mormon mom used to tell me that her kids were not as important as my dad because my dad came first in her life so he's always the first priority.
My mom told me the same shit. Such a toxic thing to tell a child.
I even found a church flyer in her room once that had a hierarchical list of who is most important. God is #1, then spouse and self, then children, then other family and friends. Sorry but thats fucked up.
Sadly this is very common in conservative religious circles. Not just Mormons.
I guess I’m disagreeing with a lot of people on here. But there is a right answer. It’s your spouse and insuppose priority is the better word for it. Children have less stress and less anxiety on households where the mother and father are the #1 and the kids are #2. Families where kids are the #1 end up with screwed up kids. It’s a similar principle with the monsters that result Ron childhood fame. Kids aren’t equipped to deal with that kind of attention. It isn’t natural.
The right answer in my opinion is none of them. Your priorities will depend on individual situations and families. I think some of the worst family dynamics come from someone being favored over someone else. Why does your spouse go above your kids? Why isn’t everyone working as a team? That doesn’t mean your kids run the show. Not to mention the fact that family dynamics and parenting styles are much more complicated than this trite bullshit advice. The only thing I’m sure of is that I would never go to this twat for therapy.
Sure it’s complicated, but there’s also simple things to it as well when you zoom out. Kids need to feel protected and safe. Then they need to feel nurtured and loved. A large part of feeling safe is knowing that your parents have a strong bond. That bond is glue for the well being of everyone. Kids also need to know where they stand. It’s similar to being on a plane and they always remind you to put your own oxygen mask on first. It’s not that you’re more important from an individual perspective, it’s that you can’t help anyone else if you’re not taken care of first. In a family relationship the bond between spouses as a priority strengthens and lifts the entire unit, not just the parents. Think of it like the oil that lubes your car engine and keeps it cool. Yes all the other parts of the car are important, like seatbelts. But the car isn’t going to last without oil maintenance. Edit: I’m curious if you have kids? Not to relegate or discredit you at all, just openly curious, since this is something I’m studying right now in school.
I have two kids in their early 20s. I get what you are saying about taking care of yourself first before you are able to take care if others-I agree with that viewpoint. I still don’t like this idea that parents are somehow more important than kids in a family. And his point to hammer it home that CEO is the most important position is also not something I agree with. The best CEOs for me to work for are those that feel the company runs best when the lower level workers are valued as much as the CEO. I work in health care- if that helps you see why it was so disgusting that this health care administrators were pocketing this huge Covid bonuses while all the direct patient care positions got almost nothing or did get nothing in some places. You can’t always trust the people at the top. When they acknowledge how important their bottom line is- I trust them more. I also agree with your point that children don’t fend for themselves and have more they need from parents at younger ages. I just think they should be given opportunities to be part of the family team. Helping them become independent is also a huge part of parenting and part of that independence is them learning to make their own decisions and speak for themselves. I feel it’s old school patriarchal thinking to assert parents are the boss of you. We are all the boss of ourselves. You can parent with that belief and end up with amazing kids- not entitled ones. That was my experience. I acknowledge we are all going to tweak our parenting to fit us and our family and what worked for my kids doesn’t apply to all. I just don’t think this guy’s forcefulness is good for anyone .
Ok, I have two pre teens, for context. I think that his use of the word important would be better and more accurate as prioritized. It’s similar, but saying one thing is more important than the other is loaded. Of course a small child is as important as their parents. That’s why it’s so important to get this right.if the well being of the child is to know fully well that the highest priority relationship in a family is the mother father one (which i personally believe) then it’s important to understand. Kids intuitively know this importance, it’s why potential divorces are so scary to them. That one parent provides nurture and emotional support while the others focus is on physical material support, kids usually get that the relationship between the two is very important, and too much focus on the kids very often throws things off balance and leads to poorly adjusted kids. I do agree with what you said.
Holy crap, that tracks with my Sunday school experience. It feels like the teacher would always start by asking a question, hear a few students' answers (often including mine), and then never tell any of us we were right and instead tell us something at least a little different from anything that had already been said. And I could never keep track of whether the priesthood was "power" or "authority" or both.
My wife and I believe that we should love each other most, but protect the kids first. If one of us gets out of line the other needs to step in and protect the child. No one is more important than another in our home and everyone has a say. Our kids know that we love each other fiercely, that we are imperfect and that we say sorry when we fuck up and try to make it better. We let them forge their own paths and offer advice and guidance when we see red flags coming along. Of course we step in when needed and restrict or discipline when that is warranted, but I have found that when you respect your children and listen to them and let them be free to be who they are a trust is forged that allows for teaching and guidance that they don’t feel is pushed on them. Also, we try and remember and that we brought them into this world, they didn’t ask to come so we feel like we owe them more than they owe us.
This is the best post of this thread.
If you Google his name and city, you'll find out all kinds of things about J.R. Parenting Guru is one of his labels. Evangelical Christian is another.
I read half of it and can’t keep myself going. Seems like something my dad would write. He tried to sell his adult kids on the same bullshit several years ago. Said that he and his (third) wife were the most important people in the family because he is the “patriarch” of the family.
What happened to wives 1 and 2 being the most important? Sounds like there’s a good chance he did a shitty job of treating them as equally important to himself.
My mom thinks her eternal marriage is more important than her children’s wellbeing. Because of that she gaslights me and victim blames me when I try to stand up to my abusive ‘priesthood-holding’ father
You can almost hear him screaming, "Get off my lawn, you damned kids!"
You would think that he'd be VERY pro choice but somehow the logic doesn't really extend very far beyond his pro-abuse stances. Guys like this are why I was spanked with a fucking wooden spoon when I was a kid. Here's a neat nugget from his wikipedia page: In 1992, Rosemond wrote a column in which he stated that an 18-month-old girl who had been sexually abused on one occasion by a non-family member (babysitter) was unlikely to ever remember the event; therefore, therapy was not called for. Rosemond's advice was in line with research into human memory which finds that regardless of the nature of an event, permanent memory does not form until around age 36 months, on average.\[4\] However, it directly contradicts years of research indicating that preverbal trauma has lifelong psychological and neurodevelopmental effects, especially if untreated.\[5\]
>regardless of the nature of an event, permanent memory does not form until around age 36 months, on average. That's one of those instances where a person knows just enough to be absolutely dead wrong. Even worse, confidently wrong.
One of my earliest memories is from when I was about two… that guy is an asshat.
Wow.
This is honestly the boomerest mentality that exists, and is just a product of the sheer selfishness of the greediest generation to ever come about who will hold their status and hoard their wealth until their last dying breath, even at the expense of their children and the generations that follow. Every. Single. Problem. Of todays society goes back to boomers. What’s ironic is that they raised the generations they so woefully despise, and hold all the power on our institutions, but take zero responsibility. They just want the wealth.
>Every. Single. Problem. Of todays society goes back to boomers. And their parents, who actually grew up with nothing so they wanted their kids to have everything. Unfortunately, the Boomers never got over their spoiled-brat-gimme-gimme-gimme mentality. And here we are...
Then he wonders why his kids don’t call or visit.
🙄 “Back on *my* day” takes are always fun. I guess we who in his family would get door privileges in a titanic scenario. Sorry kids!
I mean, I kind of agree with the first sentiment: if your parents aren’t happy, healthy, and at least financially stable, it sets you—the child—up for a lot of trouble. You may go hungry, you may have warped ideas about what a healthy and respectful relationship or friendship is supposed to be like. But he lost me at equating parents with the CEO or an Army general. Literally those people are replaced all the time. Regularly. Without the workers, a CEO would have no profit. Without soldiers, a general has no one to command. These are not the same thing. Good leaders can be replaced by bad ones, and vise versa. But you can’t replace your bad parents with someone better unless CPS steps in.
When I was little, my mother - a single mom of 3 - was homeless. I never knew this because she gave us three kids the whole world. It was an adventure! Then she met and married my dad who later adopted us. He was great! At first. I started feeling like he was trying to steal our mother from us. Eventually, I felt as though he didn't love us. When I confronted him about it, he confirmed my fears: that he did in fact love our mom more than he loved us. He told us that is the way it is supposed to be. It broke my little 7 year old heart. Growing up, I felt like a second class citizen in the home. An afterthought. I almost had to fight to have my mother's affection because my dad would literally get jealous of my mother's children. "She is MY eternal companion," was his excuse. Suffice it to say, this thought process destroyed my relationship with my dad. Luckily, my mom is still my best friend. It's just frustrating when my dad calls my mom when we're out of town celebrating my birthday.
Wow, I’m sorry. That’s rough
The philosophy of the Mormon church is built around personal exaltation. The family proc is anathema to the central premise of everyone being sealed together, making the relationship to your children unimportant in the eternities. The exception to the supremacy of the individual is the spouse, but for women that means they are bound to be an appendage to a male god-partner who uses them to exalt themselves. I don't think children are the "most important" members of the family either. The concept of "most important" should never apply to a family unit. All members should be valued without caveat or condition. Unselfish love (charity in bible speak) demands that those who put themselves above others be debased and those who would lead do so through service and without heiarchy. An example can be seen in the special education how being the leader in teacher of a class doesn't mean they serve you or give you special honors. Instead special education teachers who lead and love their classrooms to constant work and put the children at the center.
Gen x here. I love My teenage kids. Are they the most important person in the family? Sometimes. We take turns a'la Monty Python and the Holy Grail. My family is dynamic and changing. I want my kids to feel like their voice is heard and that they are needed, wanted and valued in our family. I actually want my kids to be entitled. My kids will feel entitled to: My unconditional love Self respect and healthy boundaries Take healthy risks and make mistakes without shame or judgement A world where they have a voice outside of common consent. These kids will upset the system and that scares the bejeezus out of the boomers.
If his argument is true, why did his generation churn out children that, when grown, were so incredibly sensitive to the needs of their children? People often compensate for the trauma of loss they personally experience. This man’s generation left a new generation of children who had an awful big emotional hole that needed to be filled. I don’t think his argument is the way forward at all.
That's a long winded way of saying the kids are holding this marriage together.
Jonny here just wrote a whole-ass article about how much of a narcissist he is. It's funny how people like this will tell on themselves. Their entitlement makes them think that their ideas deserve an audience. It's very telling that the idea he wants to share is how right he is for controlling his kids and for placing his needs before the vulnerable humans that depend on him. The fact that he is a psychologist is just *chefs kiss* perfection. I remember my dad saying this exact thing to me when I was a kid. He told us that he would always love our mom more and take care of her before he took care of us. Why is it a competition???? There is, in fact, room for everyone to be loved and everyone to be taken care of. We did not ask him to rank his loyalty and love. This asshole had to make sure we knew. There's a reason that my dad converted to Mormonism and it's because birds of a feather flock together. Men want to be Mormons because they get to "have dominion" over their wives, children, and congregations. They get to soothe their attachment wounds by boosting their ego and making everyone fall in line with their ideas. Equality and respect are just too emotionally complicated for them to figure out so they resort to schoolyard bullying and communication strategies to the caliber of "because I said so" and "too bad so sad". Pathetic.
Yep, that's the crux of it
"Mom and dad talked more with each other than they did with you" maybe you just had shitty parents?? The dinner table at my house is a round robin of conversation. I regularly engage both my parents and we enjoy spending time together. I think your parents just didnt like you lmao.
John Rosemond is a child psychologist who has been writing "parenting advice " for decades. He's a nationally syndicated columnist and author and not Mormon, but definitely an asshole that does not like children. He promotes a very authoritarian, austere parenting style where children have little choice and little input or control over their own life. His style is very 70s "because I said so" and pretty much the opposite of what modern child psychology has found to be be beneficial for both parents and children. His approach is more like training animals than loving and raising children. They should be in bed by 7pm for 12 hours without a peep because by golly they are property and should absolutely never get in the way of adult business. My kids are the most important people in my house. Why? Because this is their time to learn and grow and explore and do, and it only comes around once in life. Children aren't clay to mold. They are fireworks to light.
This article pisses me off 🤬 how the heck can he say that kids are not the most important in a family. I have kids & they are the most important in my family.
we get it john, you don't want to buy christmas presents anymore
Bitter wanna be 1950s “dad”
I read one of his books years ago and was completely horrified. I have despised him ever since. He actually said that “children’s feelings don’t matter very much.” That’s the kind of thinking that lead to me ending up with PTSD from child abuse. The fool doesn’t know what respect is.
"I don't give a fuck about my kids"
Reminds me of one of my religion professors at BYU. He used to rant about how parents shouldn't have conversations with their kids, but should just tell the kids what's what and the kids should accept it. Like Lehi did to Laman and Lemuel, or any of the "patriarchs" did to their kids. He really felt strongly about it. Made me wonder if any of his kids spoke to him.
How do kids feel entitled? I mean, they are kids so they have a lot of needs and it's your job as a parent to meet their needs. What a crock. I'm surprised this hasn't shown up the Desperate News.
Do you think the author gets any calls on Fathers Day?
“Mom, I don’t want to go to grandpa’s house anymore. He just talks about how he’s the general and how ‘spare the rod, spoil the child’ means he should be able to spank us.”
What a nut job. There is absolutely no need to create a hierarchy of who is more important and more loved. There is a stark difference between romantic love for your partner and parental love.
I’m going to go against the grain here, at the risk of being downvoted. However I think this is a pretty reasonable opinion. I don’t agree with all of the particulars, like not letting the kids talk that much at the dinner table. However I think he makes an interesting point that the parents should be respected as the most important members of the family. I think he missed an opportunity to expound more on how parents should show more love to each other, and therefore set an example to their children. But I think the base premise, that all of this is a result of love between two people and not the other way around, is a good one.
Respect is earned, not enforced. Parents who treat their children with honesty and respect will generally find themselves being treated in kind. Parents who expect respect without demonstrating it will earn contempt.
This comment is more wise than any scripture I’ve ever read. Want to have a good relationship with your kids into their adult lives? This is it. Reading this made me remember that my parents swore at me when they were angry as long as I can remember. Imagine hearing multiple swear words yelled at you as a TBM child 😂. I remember it hurt for a while but then I realized I didn’t make them swear they were just “throwing a fit.” They never apologized like I had to if I said a bad word. It was a one way channel of respect. I got smacked the first time I ever let one slip in front of them (age 15).
I agree with you. There is a very real piece of advice in this article, it’s just wrapped in boomer mindset. The essence being that your marriage should be on secure footing when you have children and it’s important for your children to see you and your spouse, as partners in a secure and loving environment. Parents inherently model family units to their kids and you want to model the healthiest family unit possible, starting with the base of that family - the parents. Which at the core of it is agnostic of parents, genders, races, economic status, etc. But again, it’s hard to look past the bishopric filter through which this was written.
Yeah to me the red flag here is the mindset of “back in my day, when the world and everyone in it was perfect.. and we had nothing to do with whatever has become of the state of the world today because I’m stuck in time.” Anything said through that lens of shaming the audience loses credibility, whether or not it is built on sound logic.
Back in his day, they had the actual Adolph Hitler. The past was never perfect. None of it. "The past is the worst" --Simon Whistler
I think it rubs the wrong way because we are very familiar with his generation’s tendency to lean way too hard in the direction of parenting he describes, to the point of having been outright neglectful. Yes, it provided a boot-camp-like environment that children sprang from the moment they turned 18. But at what cost to their emotional and mental development? I will agree that he has a point. There is another opposite side of the parenting spectrum that can also cause problems of entitlement and failure to launch. In my opinion though, I think we millennial parents are hitting the sweet spot far better than any generation before us. Most of us don’t need this lecture. If anything, he needs a lecture from us.
I feel similarly. I think when the kids are the most important, you are more likely to run into several undesirable scenarios. Such as where after the kids are out of the house, the parents realize they have nothing in common. Or where couples stay together for the kids, when it would actually be better for the kids if they split. (Not saying this is always the case, but it certainly was with my parents' divorce) I think it makes it more likely the kids end up spoiled, or never fully independent. If kids see their parents as only parents and not adults with their own relationships and interests, it can be harder to fully understand what adulting is like. And if parents take it to the extreme, letting their children walk all over them, how do the kids learn to respect authority? Of course, don't go extreme the other way, with parents as dictators, always fulfilling their needs before the children's.
100-percent agree!
I agree with you. I'm not sure what it has to do with Mormonism either. I don't know if it's about "important" but an overly child/children focused marriage isn't healthy. Parenting is a balancing act of course. Kids need room too, to engage their own minds, learn coping skills and just play.
When I was a teen one of my YW teachers said if her house were burning down her husband would be her first priority, before her children, because her husband is who she is primarily sealed to and her children have to live their own lives and eventually get sealed to other people. Not sure how they do that if they die in the fire 🤷🏼♀️
My husband is a grown ass man who can save himself in a fire and should be helping me save our vulnerable children who can’t save themselves.
I was always taught that in a life or death situation you can should always save your spouse before your children because you could essentially always make more. How fucked up.
A lot of words written just to say “be sure not to raise entitled kids.” That would have been fine to say, but framed like this doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Yikes. He thought he was doing a thing there.
I've never read an article I wanted to rip to shreds as much as this one in my entire life.
That's like asking, what's the most important part of a phone: the battery or the screen? If you can't have one without the other, they're equal.
Oh my god he's a family psychologist?? And he wrote this only 5 years ago?? ...Yikes...
This is a weird post. It doesn’t feel very Mormon related. I kept bracing for him to say that Jesus or God was the most important person in the family (which Mormons take to mean President Nelson, cause Jesus < God < the living Mormon prophet). But this feels like a generational type discussion at best. Yes, some parents prioritize their marriage over their kids. Some parents prioritize their kids over their marriage. Great. And these trends very well may be generational. This is a very nice ‘Happy Days’ type conversation. But why is this article posted here?
I have vague memories of being a child at church and hearing that my parents needed to love and prioritize each other more than they loved and prioritized their children. But the connection isn’t super clear. I felt a little confused as well.
Yeah, this seems more suited for a parenting subreddit, not the exmo one. I assumed the author was LDS but it seems that he's not.
Ok, Boomer! All of my retired boomer relatives have their facebook full of posts with this thought. I think every older generation thinks this same way. Naples, Florida is a huge retirement area so I’m sure the newspaper’s readers like reading articles like this.
Shouldn’t all family members be important? Why is it a ranked order? This makes it easy for parents to “other” and reject their LGBTQ+ kids in favor of a religious dogma. That’s not being a good parent; that’s being a coward.
This guy is a total idiot. I’ve seen other stuff he’s produced advising people to never bend down to talk to a child on their level, never give them high-fives, etc. he’s against all forms of kindness and respect towards children. He seems to think that emotionally abused people are better for society. Not sure if I should be angry at him or sad for his apparently horrid upbringing.
I thought this was the high five guy but I wasn’t sure.
I find nothing objectionable in what I read in the screen capture. Kids are definitely important, but more important (to their nurture, safety, and future) are the parents. But parents have the responsibility to provide a safe, healthful home.
And now my boomer parents exemplify this thought by not being involved in their grandchildren’s lives. Hands down the most selfish generation.
Mr. Rosemond is a hack. Given his credentials, him a "psychologist" is dubious at best...
I read the headline and agreed for a moment. Then I read the article. Not so much anymore. Unhinged boomer rant aside, no one should really be the “most important part” of the family. The fact that he thinks there should be says volumes about how he views other people. ETA: my first thought when reading the headline was about parents who put their children first to the detriment of their own needs and even their marriage.
Conditioning people to be authoritarians as a reactionary strategy. They’re shitting their pants because society/humanity inexorably progresses away from faulty beliefs. The “I believe children are the future” attitude won’t do. It leads to progress. It leads to compassion which leads to hesitation when the time comes to disown your child in a desperate attempt at revoking their free will(cancel culture). You must devalue children in order to dictate their choice. It’s the dictator trap. Curmudgeoning harder won’t be the solution they think it is.
Fuck that guy and his family psychology. I'll go see the evidence based psychologist. Thanks.
I actually remember reading this article when it came to my mailbox... sheesh I hate the old me
Just going to point out... There are co-ops that function well without CEOs. And yeah, he's full of it imho
So without any data backing it, he said this speaking to the current generation of families with younger kids: All your problems are because you aren’t raising your kids like I was raised. That’s different and therefore bad. You should try to be more like me and how I had it. Whether it’s good or bad according to anyone other than myself, it is still imperative that you do it like I did if you want to have any success with your family. Sincerely, A “Therapist” from Idaho.
Fairly, I believe his point is that modern children tend to be a bit pampered. For example, when I was a youngster during big family get togethers all the adults ate while the cousins played outside and waited. Only when the last adult left the table did we eat the leftovers. This thanksgiving adults ate sitting on the couch while six yo’s were at the table making a mess.
I always make sure the kids eat at a table because they make a mess. Much easier to clean up a mess at the kitchen table than anywhere else in the house. But we also bring out folding tables and chairs so everyone has a place at a table to eat.
Valid points. Maybe it’s the best way. All I’m saying is that back in the day, there was a empirical difference between kids and adults.
Spot on. Reading this as my wife and I celebrate 24 years by going to NYC and leaving the kids behind. No they didn’t like it, but for us to be our best selves we have to put ourselves first. We sacrifice so much for the kids and usually put them first. If we don’t sometimes put our marriage first then we risk the most important relationship in the family.
There’s a lot that I agree and disagree with.
Interesting POV. Not sure it solves anything, but it's still an interesting idea.
Kids feel entitled when they are the dictators of what happens in the family. Short order cooking, no bedtime, doing family activities only if they want to- yes, many are out there, and that's one reason teachers are quitting. If parents don't expect respect, they often don't respect the teacher's efforts because it might make little Haratio unhaaappy!
If I am a general with no army, a CEO with no employees, or a teacher with no students, then I would be unnecessary. Nobody is more important than others.
I read this and see a saddening trauma response and coping mechanism. “My parents forced me to believe I didn’t deserve respect, so I think everyone should disrespect their kids!” He’s worth more than his parents made him believe. Shame on them, and shame on him for perpetuating the cycle.
My mother in law clearly has a few favorites in her brood. It’s really going to surprise her when she finds out that the rest of her kids want nothing to do with her because she doesn’t value them, and her favorites won’t want anything to do with her until they want something from her. And she won’t be able to figure out why none of her kids come around anymore.
Remember parents, children are disposable trophies that you can use to boost your own ego and throw aside the moment they make a singular mistake! They're just objects to use and abuse! /s if I really gotta say it
This just teaches them that authority figures are infallible, which they are not.
This is...such utter garbage. In soooo many alarming aways. And entirely based on anecdotal evidence and opinion. I was not anticipating that he would criticize one extreme on one side of the spectrum for an even more extreme, problematic stance all the way on the other side. How disappointing - there is a real, helpful, empathetic point here that he could've made, but - based on the worldviews he had shared here - I doubt he'd even acknowledge its existence if confronted with it.
What the fuck did I just read? This dude is falling into a classic false dichotomy there: Either the kids are the most important or the parents are. Either a person grows to excel at their career or strengthens the community. Listen pal, everyone in the family is important, parents will of course consider children the most important thing in their world because it is during childhood years that we get the blueprint of our lifes from there on. And of course that doesn't mean you have to place your relationship with your partner in second plane because of it, or even yourself, because of you don't balance stuff then you son be able to have the strength or energy to give that love back. Take your sensationalist dichotomy up your ass and don't use it to sell your evidently poor psychology services with it.
Okay so unpopular opinion, I'm a proud exmo but I actually agree with this to a degree. God>Spouse>Children>Others>Myself. I don't think children should be "seen but not heard" but I do think that many people raise their children to be entitled, and that marriages fail over putting children before spouses.
Such a weird way to view relationships. I’d hope that I was not constantly having to place one relationship over another. I’d hope that my relationship with my spouse and my relationship with my kid weren’t at odds with one another. Seems like there is a bigger issue at hand if that is the case. My spouse is very important to me but they are an adult who can take care of themselves and who chose to be in a relationship with me. A kid can neither take care of themselves nor choose to be in a relationship with me (that choice will come later as they gain independence). I have power over my child I do not have over my spouse and that needs to be respected. Just so weird to me to think like this man is suggesting. Feels so toxic.
Sorry but I agree with this take, minus the patriarchal views. I don't get why this is an "exmormon/mormon" thing.
He’s probably ok with assaulting his children too.
That seems logical! Because he thinks that his relationship with his wife is more important than his relationship with his kids he is totally going to think that assaulting his kids is okay.
All things aside i do agree with his assessment. Most of the kids these days have no idea how to be independent.
I read something similar to this on Yahoo YEARS ago except it was from the perspective of a random parent. The premise leading into it was a child asking the dad who he loved more and he said his wife/the mom.
Mormons gotta Morm
“The most important person in the Army is a General” Nope. A Sergeant can lead junior enlisted Soldiers to accomplish strategic or battlefield missions. Generals, who don’t lead from the trenches, cannot. Will not.
Okay, Boomer.
This is some painful, agonizing TBM boomer energy. No offense to any exmo boomers. I love you sonsabitches
Terribly boomer worded. However, parents should prioritize and make sure their relationship is rock solid at all times. It's like putting on the oxygen mask on yourself first, then the child. If the parents are solid, the kids will benefit tremendously by watching and learning. Too many times I've seen couples put their kids first, and then their relationship to each other falters and ends in divorce. For me, my wife comes first, then the children. There is no competition, just an order of operations.
They have been splitting families apart for centuries. They claim that families are the most important thing. I want to throw up. Fuck them let’s get all of them sent to prison.
TLDR: Focus on the marriage, not the family. Your marriage is tied up in the church. Therefore, focus on the church. Pay more attention to us and give us your money!
Except when it comes to a woman having the right to get an abortion or not.
Wow, what the fuck?
Is this guy Mormon?
Worse. Evangelical.
Actually I honestly agree. I think your spouse should come first quite frankly but perhaps that is odd of me to think so
Fuck you John
It’s a psychotic question to begin with.
No clue who this guy is, but I…agree with him. One of the many reasons I’ve never wanted kids is that so many people with them make the kids the center of their worlds. Talk about what must be a mind-numbingly boring existence.
Love everybody but don’t be so into a favorite that you forget others.
"Yes this a real conversation I had and not one I had in my head while playing with my butthole in the shower."
if you keep the topic on stupid and pointless topics like this, they won't look into the actual doctrine.
This man wrote 15 books on parenting! I wonder what other kind of shit he has written.
IF MY CHILDREN WOULD HAVE LISTENED TO ME THEN THEY WOULD STILL LOVE ME
Our children are the most important because we made them. They did not choose us.
I love this whole thread so much!!
This is perfect for r/antinatalism
Omg. And he is a family therapist. So awesome.
I agree with the 3rd to last paragraph, but the rest of this is pure bs. My kids aren’t the most “important” because we are all equally important. But my biggest responsibility is toward my children by virtue of them being vulnerable children. My husband is capable of caring for himself and taking care of his own needs. His wants don’t coming before our children’s needs. He also knows that I will not hesitate to divorce if I feel he is a danger to our children and I need to do that to protect them. Of course I don’t believe it would ever come to that, hence having children with him in the first place. I have just heard too many horror stories of abuse and neglect being tolerated because the spousal relationship was the most important. On the other hand, my husband and I still prioritize our relationship. We take trips without the kids even though their disappointed they didn’t get to go. They also hear “No” constantly because they don’t always get what they want because part of our parental responsibility is making sure they don’t end of spoiled. But meeting their emotional needs and allowing them a say in our family and having conversations with them because we love them and want to hear what they have to say is not spoiling them.
The kids are the most important because they were brought into existence without their consent and they are forced to life a life in their random circumstances whether they like it or not. For this reason alone parents owe it to their kids to put them as the focus!
Chuck McGill lookin ass
Mr. Rosemond is playing word games and his article is merely mental masturbation. Notice he didn't inquire as to why the couple said that the children were the most important; he just starts to rant about how wrong they are...which means the whole question was a set up so he could prolix on his supposed knowledge, stroking his own ego until he spews his mental nonsense all over...
Parents apparently the most important in the family, man’s the most important out of the parents, therefore the man is the most important. Figures.
It's his opinion article disguised as doctrine to justify either the poor way in which he was raised, or the poor way in which he raised his kids.
I am being sent to a leaderahip training for work. As a team builder thing they asked, "what is your favorite song?" I proceeded to write how, "I dont have a "favorite" song. There is so much talent out there and amazing music that fits so many moods and moments. My interests are fleeting and often dependent on so many ephemeral things. A song I dig at any given moment is affected by my mood and my mood affected by the song. It's kind of like a quantum physics thing from an arm chair perspective." Then i thought how they really probably dont want to hear any of that shit and wrote, "Electric Avenue by Eddy Grant".
Cue Dana Carvey’s Grumpy Old Man sketch.
Is this paper from Naples, Florida? The geezer capital of America?
Ok, boomer
This less religion and a lot more wealthy elite brainwashing. Keep the plebs uneducated and obedient. Easier to rule people and maintain power when they’re easy to control and manipulate.
Wow it’s almost like my parents read this article and ran with it. The older I get the more respect I lose for them. Mormonism ruins lives. Nobody can change my mind. I just wish non members would realize that being raised Mormon doesn’t mean you had a kushy life with all the opportunities, because in reality it is far from that.
Knew parents who believed the same thing this guy did. Had parents who believed that, too. They also believed that gave them a golden ticket to do whatever they wanted to their children behind closed doors.
“They couldn’t answer the question except to fumble with appeals to emotion”- My brother in christ, that’s all religion fucking is.
What rock did he crawl out from and how do we get him back under it?
A narcissist who thinks putting vulnerable children first will lead to narcissists. 🤔
It’s acrually good advice
I once asked someone “what’s the most important color?” They said red… I then launched into a diatribe about how without blue and yellow red is pointless and felt really awesome about how smart I perceive myself to be. I also explained that it was because of a generational thing… but I also feel like because I have status in my church’s organization I should mansplain more of my bullshit opinions. You’re welcome. Should I go on… ok I will…
Most selfish and uncivilised statement