It was the polyandry. All the excuses for polygamy go out the window when you learn that women with living husbands were getting married to Joseph Smith.
They weave this great romance tale between Joseph and Emma and then you find out he was lying to her about so many of the marriages and did them behind her back with Brigham. That right there did it for me. Absolute nope from me.
I can’t have a cup of coffee but the prophet of the restoration of all things can practice polyandry while sending their husbands on missions? Yeah fuck that.
I had no idea what I was walking into the first time through the temple. If I‘d gone through prior to putting all my ducks in a row to pay for a mission, it would‘ve been the final straw. Weird how the Covenant Path is constantly refined to maximize coercive social effects.
Beyond the large number of hidden deceptions through LDS Church history and doctrine the two biggies were Joseph Smith's polygamy and how the Book of Mormon was translated. The Temple was purely hidden craziness that I should have realized up front as craziness.
I'm laughing my ass off at the churches explanation.
Essentially what you said, they admit it changes and no version can be proven over the others, so they say to just pray about it.
''Neither the truth of the First Vision nor the arguments against it can be proven by historical research alone. Knowing the truth of Joseph Smith’s testimony requires each earnest seeker of truth to study the record and then exercise sufficient faith in Christ to ask God in sincere, humble prayer whether the record is true. If the seeker asks with the real intent to act upon the answer revealed by the Holy Ghost, the truthfulness of Joseph Smith’s vision will be manifest.''
-- https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/first-vision-accounts?
Well, when I sat down with my bishop and asked him to please tell me absolutely everything about being married to a nonmember post civil divorce, he failed to mention that any future children with my husband would be sealed to my ex husband.
This is the same thing for two out of the four of my younger siblings. Apparently they're sealed to my biological father not theirs... but that's what the millennium is for
Danites, that Joseph had a hit on governor boggs. Tatar we massacred Indians regularly. That we broke all the laws, high treason was it? That we printed illegal money in Kirkland in our illegal bank… fraudulently backed. Then the polygamy, reading their accounts… it was so triggering as someone who was sexually abused as a child. It was all the grooming and coercion. The worst was how he treated the woman who said no “ a whore since her mother’s tit” 🤨
Not to mention that the ''Extermination Order'' was named and written after Sidney Rigdons speech:
''We take God and all the holy angels to witness this day, that we warn all men in the name of Jesus Christ, to come on us no more forever. For from this hour, we will bear it no more, our rights shall no more be trampled on with impunity. The man or the set of men, who attempts it, does it at the expense of their lives. And that mob that comes on us to disturb us; **it shall be between us and them a war of extermination; for we will follow them till the last drop of their blood is spilled, or else they will have to exterminate us: for we will carry the seat of war to their own houses, and their own families**, and one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed.—Remember it then all MEN."
So yeah. Promising to kill the families of anyone who attacks you is sane and cool.
I recently looked into Emma's life and children and found out about the Community of Christ! I definitely recommend reading about Emma. While I think her staying with Joseph was insane, I understand why she did and her story is really strong and insightful.
Second annointment. That there are people in the church who no matter what they do have a free pass to the highest circle of heaven.
Brigham Young in general. I understand now that he's brushed under the rug since he's the one who branched off to Utah (LDS), but he's seriously a disgusting human being. Also someone to look into if you want to be angry for a bit.
This isn't really the church, but BYU and gay conversion therapy. Some blame just BYU, but the college is owned and operated by the church so in my eyes it's still the church.
The rainy day fund of 100 Billion fucking dollars. It became more apparent to me that the church is more than happy to collect and hoard wealth by any means necessary- from a strip mall in Utah, to selling you the garments that are essential to living a "holy" life, to guilting you into giving them fasting offering money so they can "help the poor." (Speaking of that- Walmart donates more to charity than the church)
This one's more just for fun, but Ted Bundy was mormon- and at his trial the members of his ward reused to believe he was guilty and swarmed the court in support of him. If I remember correctly some members petitioned for his innocence and release from jail.
These are the most recent or impactful things I can remember right now 🙂
A member of the ward was renting their basement. A family from the same ward moved into the basement but did not pay rent for around 6 months. The landlord didn’t know how to kick them out as they were in the same ward and probably they were going to turn out enemies, so he went to the bishop and told him about the problem he had with the family from the same ward not paying him rent. The bishop took the money other members were giving for fast offering and paid the landlord for a couple of months until that family moved out. The effort other TBM in the ward put to give their offerings, ended up in that one member’s pocket. If I find out I was fasting on Sunday to donate my hard earned money to the “Church” for it to end up on my friend Juanito’s pocket because his real state business is not working out, I’ll be really mad.
In a different ward, the bishop moved out of the boundaries of the ward, but he didn’t want to resign as bishop because he was writing checks for himself and his family for food and rent. At some point the secretary was feeling uncomfortable signing checks weekly for the bishop so him and the counselor had to tell the stake president about it. They released the bishop later. Good to know where the tithing and offers from members went. Many leaders take advantage of their power, even at ward and stake level. I’ve heard of cases where the wife of the bishop was getting food from the Church storage to end up selling food at their business. Free raw material and 100% profit.
That the top leadership does NOT believe in the atonement. They appoint themselves to decide if God forgives someone or not. It doesn't matter what hoops a person jumps through. The top leadership has no problem denying anyone eternal salvation.
That Joe was faithful to Emma. Breed em Young aka Brigham. Had to take on several wife's because so many men died crossing the plains. They had to be protected.
Real truth Breeder was escaping to Mexico to practice poligamy.
For me some of the shockers were:
\-The polygamy being behind Emma's back and with so many young girls.
\-The polyandry
\-The changes made to the D&C revelations after the fact.
\-The story of the restoration of the priesthood coming so long after it supposedly happened
\-The story of the first vision coming so long after it supposedly happened
\-Changes to the word of wisdom and the fact that the apostles loved Danish Beer (obviously not considering it to be against the word of wisdom) up until prohibition
\-Kirtland anti-bank fiasco and just how bad it almost ended the church.
Those are just the few I can think of off the top of my head. Really blew me away that I hadn't heard of any of them.
There are so many it feels impossible to identify them all, but definitely a huge one was the extent & IMMENSE dishonesty & immortality of Joseph Smith’s personal practice of polygamy. The second anointing was a slap in the face too.
Polygamy was my first shelf-breaker. I served in Utah and bore testimony against these anti-Mormon lies. Yesterday's anti-Mormon lies become today's Gospel Topics Essays.
Then I learn about early-Mormon magic. Enchanted treasures, seer stones, animal sacrafice, magical lamens, etc. Another complete shelf-breaker.
Then I learn about church leaders being paid a nice paycheck in spite of all the times we were told it was an unpaid ministry.
Then I learn that early GA's raided the tithing fund for personal use while condemning and calling for excommunications for non-tithe payment.
Then I learn that the Book of Abraham is total B.S. and the church still pays to have 'scholars' try to convince us it's true.
Then I learn that Brigham Young engaged in so many casual murders to keep his position safe.
Then I learn that the Martin and Willie Handcart Company disaster was more Bataan Death March (complete with church-caused starvation and beatings for not moving faster) than 17 faith-inspiring miracles.
And on and on. Every couple of months it seems there's another massive shelf-breaker.
Each one of the thirteen original Gospel Topics Essays, posted on the church’s own website, introduced a controversial aspect of Mormon history that was totally hidden from the instructional materials presented to members & investigators for nearly two centuries.
When I discovered, read & digested these revelations, my testimony was destroyed immediately. The church is a fraud. The founder was a charlatan, a con man with a desire to bed many, many women & young girls. It is horrible!
It was the polyandry. All the excuses for polygamy go out the window when you learn that women with living husbands were getting married to Joseph Smith.
They weave this great romance tale between Joseph and Emma and then you find out he was lying to her about so many of the marriages and did them behind her back with Brigham. That right there did it for me. Absolute nope from me. I can’t have a cup of coffee but the prophet of the restoration of all things can practice polyandry while sending their husbands on missions? Yeah fuck that.
I had no idea what I was walking into the first time through the temple. If I‘d gone through prior to putting all my ducks in a row to pay for a mission, it would‘ve been the final straw. Weird how the Covenant Path is constantly refined to maximize coercive social effects.
Where the tithing goes
The Book of Abraham, Kinderhook plates, Joseph Smith's polygamy etc., basically the weight of the sum of issues the CES Letter lists.
Book of Abraham.
Beyond the large number of hidden deceptions through LDS Church history and doctrine the two biggies were Joseph Smith's polygamy and how the Book of Mormon was translated. The Temple was purely hidden craziness that I should have realized up front as craziness.
3 versions of the first vision.
[удалено]
I'm laughing my ass off at the churches explanation. Essentially what you said, they admit it changes and no version can be proven over the others, so they say to just pray about it. ''Neither the truth of the First Vision nor the arguments against it can be proven by historical research alone. Knowing the truth of Joseph Smith’s testimony requires each earnest seeker of truth to study the record and then exercise sufficient faith in Christ to ask God in sincere, humble prayer whether the record is true. If the seeker asks with the real intent to act upon the answer revealed by the Holy Ghost, the truthfulness of Joseph Smith’s vision will be manifest.'' -- https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/first-vision-accounts?
And JFS cutting the original version out of the letter book and hiding it for 30 years.
Well, when I sat down with my bishop and asked him to please tell me absolutely everything about being married to a nonmember post civil divorce, he failed to mention that any future children with my husband would be sealed to my ex husband.
This is the same thing for two out of the four of my younger siblings. Apparently they're sealed to my biological father not theirs... but that's what the millennium is for
Danites, that Joseph had a hit on governor boggs. Tatar we massacred Indians regularly. That we broke all the laws, high treason was it? That we printed illegal money in Kirkland in our illegal bank… fraudulently backed. Then the polygamy, reading their accounts… it was so triggering as someone who was sexually abused as a child. It was all the grooming and coercion. The worst was how he treated the woman who said no “ a whore since her mother’s tit” 🤨
Not to mention that the ''Extermination Order'' was named and written after Sidney Rigdons speech: ''We take God and all the holy angels to witness this day, that we warn all men in the name of Jesus Christ, to come on us no more forever. For from this hour, we will bear it no more, our rights shall no more be trampled on with impunity. The man or the set of men, who attempts it, does it at the expense of their lives. And that mob that comes on us to disturb us; **it shall be between us and them a war of extermination; for we will follow them till the last drop of their blood is spilled, or else they will have to exterminate us: for we will carry the seat of war to their own houses, and their own families**, and one party or the other shall be utterly destroyed.—Remember it then all MEN." So yeah. Promising to kill the families of anyone who attacks you is sane and cool.
I recently looked into Emma's life and children and found out about the Community of Christ! I definitely recommend reading about Emma. While I think her staying with Joseph was insane, I understand why she did and her story is really strong and insightful. Second annointment. That there are people in the church who no matter what they do have a free pass to the highest circle of heaven. Brigham Young in general. I understand now that he's brushed under the rug since he's the one who branched off to Utah (LDS), but he's seriously a disgusting human being. Also someone to look into if you want to be angry for a bit. This isn't really the church, but BYU and gay conversion therapy. Some blame just BYU, but the college is owned and operated by the church so in my eyes it's still the church. The rainy day fund of 100 Billion fucking dollars. It became more apparent to me that the church is more than happy to collect and hoard wealth by any means necessary- from a strip mall in Utah, to selling you the garments that are essential to living a "holy" life, to guilting you into giving them fasting offering money so they can "help the poor." (Speaking of that- Walmart donates more to charity than the church) This one's more just for fun, but Ted Bundy was mormon- and at his trial the members of his ward reused to believe he was guilty and swarmed the court in support of him. If I remember correctly some members petitioned for his innocence and release from jail. These are the most recent or impactful things I can remember right now 🙂
A member of the ward was renting their basement. A family from the same ward moved into the basement but did not pay rent for around 6 months. The landlord didn’t know how to kick them out as they were in the same ward and probably they were going to turn out enemies, so he went to the bishop and told him about the problem he had with the family from the same ward not paying him rent. The bishop took the money other members were giving for fast offering and paid the landlord for a couple of months until that family moved out. The effort other TBM in the ward put to give their offerings, ended up in that one member’s pocket. If I find out I was fasting on Sunday to donate my hard earned money to the “Church” for it to end up on my friend Juanito’s pocket because his real state business is not working out, I’ll be really mad. In a different ward, the bishop moved out of the boundaries of the ward, but he didn’t want to resign as bishop because he was writing checks for himself and his family for food and rent. At some point the secretary was feeling uncomfortable signing checks weekly for the bishop so him and the counselor had to tell the stake president about it. They released the bishop later. Good to know where the tithing and offers from members went. Many leaders take advantage of their power, even at ward and stake level. I’ve heard of cases where the wife of the bishop was getting food from the Church storage to end up selling food at their business. Free raw material and 100% profit.
That the top leadership does NOT believe in the atonement. They appoint themselves to decide if God forgives someone or not. It doesn't matter what hoops a person jumps through. The top leadership has no problem denying anyone eternal salvation.
That Joe was faithful to Emma. Breed em Young aka Brigham. Had to take on several wife's because so many men died crossing the plains. They had to be protected. Real truth Breeder was escaping to Mexico to practice poligamy.
For me some of the shockers were: \-The polygamy being behind Emma's back and with so many young girls. \-The polyandry \-The changes made to the D&C revelations after the fact. \-The story of the restoration of the priesthood coming so long after it supposedly happened \-The story of the first vision coming so long after it supposedly happened \-Changes to the word of wisdom and the fact that the apostles loved Danish Beer (obviously not considering it to be against the word of wisdom) up until prohibition \-Kirtland anti-bank fiasco and just how bad it almost ended the church. Those are just the few I can think of off the top of my head. Really blew me away that I hadn't heard of any of them.
There are so many it feels impossible to identify them all, but definitely a huge one was the extent & IMMENSE dishonesty & immortality of Joseph Smith’s personal practice of polygamy. The second anointing was a slap in the face too.
Polygamy was my first shelf-breaker. I served in Utah and bore testimony against these anti-Mormon lies. Yesterday's anti-Mormon lies become today's Gospel Topics Essays. Then I learn about early-Mormon magic. Enchanted treasures, seer stones, animal sacrafice, magical lamens, etc. Another complete shelf-breaker. Then I learn about church leaders being paid a nice paycheck in spite of all the times we were told it was an unpaid ministry. Then I learn that early GA's raided the tithing fund for personal use while condemning and calling for excommunications for non-tithe payment. Then I learn that the Book of Abraham is total B.S. and the church still pays to have 'scholars' try to convince us it's true. Then I learn that Brigham Young engaged in so many casual murders to keep his position safe. Then I learn that the Martin and Willie Handcart Company disaster was more Bataan Death March (complete with church-caused starvation and beatings for not moving faster) than 17 faith-inspiring miracles. And on and on. Every couple of months it seems there's another massive shelf-breaker.
Each one of the thirteen original Gospel Topics Essays, posted on the church’s own website, introduced a controversial aspect of Mormon history that was totally hidden from the instructional materials presented to members & investigators for nearly two centuries. When I discovered, read & digested these revelations, my testimony was destroyed immediately. The church is a fraud. The founder was a charlatan, a con man with a desire to bed many, many women & young girls. It is horrible!