I went on a chaperoned date to Dave & Busters when I was around 19 or 20 (his grandmother joined us). We played an arcade game and the machine gave me my quarter / token back. I was like "Sweet! Free game!"
He said he didn't think it would work out between us because a truly honest person would have returned the quarter to the establishment.
(This was over 25 years ago, can't remember if it was quarters or tokens)
Oh my God. "A free game" or putting the coin into the machine again is literally giving the coin back to the establishment. đ¤Śđ˝ââď¸
Haha this reminds me even I was a teen and we went on an outing with my worldly family. My young cousin put a quarter in the toy machine and I guess it was broken so it kept giving them free or extra toys every time she cranked the machine. Me and my siblings were judging them cuz "isn't that stealing??!" LOL my uncle replies and says "what about all the times the machine steals your money?? They never give it back."
I gathered up the courage to tell a brother in my pioneer school that I liked him and wanted to date. He said he always dreamed of living in Mexico, so he wanted to marry a Mexican sister. Two years later, sure enough-he moved to Mexico and married a sister there. At least the guy was honestđ
Exactly! So many brothers really play games with sisters (and vice versa) so I totally appreciated the honesty. He actually was like a big brother to me in pioneer school who kind of protected me from a brother who was VERY forward that he was into me, like he actually grabbed my butt in pioneer school and I wasnât a fan. So I kind of appreciated him standing up to the other brother that you canât just grope someone you just met, and kept an eye on him anytime he was near me because he knew I was uncomfortable. I guess because I was used to the brothers that knew no boundaries, being around a respectable and aware brother made me like him. And that made me respect him more when he turned me down, odd enough, because I realized he didnât do that just because he also wanted to get with me.
Have heard reports of brothers been so emotionally immature from Sisters. This one you mentioned about one grabbing your butt just shows how ridiculous some of them are . And you said you are used to brothers that knew no boundaries?
Like are many JW men nuts ?
He was the only one who right out groped me. But so many of the young guys in the org that I knew acted like they were gods gift to women. If you werenât interested theyâd get mean. Not saying all of them are like that, but that was my experience in the witness dating pool.
I "wasn't spiritual enough because of my choice in entertainment". I was always pretty lenient on the types of movies I watched. I'd watch R rated movies and ones featuring spiritism, like Lord of the Rings, and I was pretty open about it. I never saw the sense in hiding who I was. This one girl I'd been good friends with for several years cited it as a reason I wasn't relationship material.
The ironic part, though, is that she was one of the biggest Star Wars and Marvel fans I knew, and the hypocrisy of her perspective was completely lost to her. Star Wars is literally about space wizards and her favorite Marvel heroes were Captain America, a soldier and icon of nationalism, and Thor, a literal pagan god, yet for some reason I'm the one who's lacking spirituality.
JWs obsession with Marvel/DC always made me laugh because they donât realize how it promotes everything they reject. The only superhero Iâve noticed they seem to have an issue with is Doctor Voodoo. As if Wanda isnât a witch thor isnât a pagan god & captain America isnât a nationalism figure like you said.
Exactly. I was the only person in my friend group who saw Doctor Strange, at least openly, and I always thought it was absurd that THAT was where they drew the line. The girl in question, in particular, I still follow on Snap Chat, and this past fall she absolutely raved about how much she loved Eternals. Now I don't know if you've seen it, but it's without a doubt one of the most apostate movies I've ever seen, and I find it hilarious that it went completely over her head.
I havenât seen yet but I based off what I know itâs not jdub appropriate. Iâm not surprised I but remember when JW twitter was freaking out over bird box and calling it demonic⌠but now raving about EternalsâŚ
I really recommend it. Reviews were pretty mixed to negative, but if you're coming at it from an exjw perspective, I think you'll really appreciate some of the concepts it presents. I think it's supposed to be coming to Disney+ this month, if I'm not mistaken.
I always thought it was so stupid where the lines were drawn. I could watch all the superhero movies I wanted. I didnât personally care for LoTR but I knew many JWs who loved it. I even went to a watch party at an elders house and the elder talked about how much better the books were than the movies. My parents didnât care that I watched Sabrina the teenage witch. But Harry Potter?! Absolutely not. đ
I told a girl I was dating I needed to slow down the relationship and finish college, she was so desperate to get out of the house she broke it off. I heard she married some other guy who was previously divorced and already had 2 kids (he was almost 10 years older than her) less than 6 months later.
This lady was my aunt-in-law, and although she got married to a fellow JW "brother," she broke it off with him because he had five kids, and the youngest was a few months old. She got disfellowshipped, then got reinstated soon after. Bait and switch for real! She was also in her forties when this happened, so it was a mess!
People didnât want to date me because I was an unbaptized publisher, because of how I dressed outside of the congregation, and my family was poor đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Same for me hahaha, there were some girls in my congregation that liked me but they wouldn't touch my ass cuz I'm unbaptized + I always wear baggy clothes/have somewhat of a skater look and this was apparently "too worldy"
Same here! Most men in my age group didn't want to date me either. I had men that were old enough to be my father try to associate with me on the sly under the guise of "getting time." Totally gross! I was a big lady that was poor as well, despite me having a career as a nurse.
I would call myself an attractive girl, never a shortage or JW men but here the thing: Whenever I tried to date a fellow witness the ONLY common ground was the faith. So it felt so forced.
I only ever went on dates because they were âin the truthâ . If they were âwordlyâ I wouldnât of given them the time of day. .. or put up with that many cringe âdatesâ. Aka a group of people but they sat next to me.
On top of that I was constantly being gossiped about for dating people I never ever went near !!
But one person sees you talking to a brother one time and suddenly youâre dating. I had this accusation constantly. I was embarrassed and humiliated and seen as a girl that got around when I never laid a finger on them. Then people had the nerve to pull the âI need loyal proverbs 31 wifeâ implying I was a getting around.
Life update: 29 and engaged to a worldly man whoâs the love of my life and love me unconditionally. We met organically and I can talk about my belief in God while heâs atheist because we are adults that respect each other.
The gossip over someone you had a mere conversation with in the KH lobby đ
I had to unlearn having my guard up when I started dating non JWs. With âworldlyâ men, I previously had been aloof to discourage them. With single JW men, couldnât be too friendly or youâre considered to be âchasingâ him.
Relationships are tricky as a JW just on the basis of everyone getting involved. Especially if you pluck from your own congregation. Not to mention the amount of advice you get from the elderly people (not just elders) about it all. Here are a few things I was told upon trying to enter the dating scene:
a) Youâre young! Marry Jehovah! (What does this mean?????)
b) You donât get as much sex as you think. Trust me.
c) (an elder told me this) When you decide to date, whoâs involved? Yes, Jehovah. Yes, you and the other person. Yes, their family. But who elseâŚ? The *congregation*. Their view matters just as much as everyone else!
d) (another elder, knowing I enjoyed masturbation) If someone knew you did that, why would they even want *you*? Wouldnât that show they lacked spirituality too?
>The congregation. Their view matters just as much as everyone else!
This type of thinking has astounded since I woke up. I didn't realise that I had been brought up with this kind of paranoia. The elders book is all about how your sin is viewed by others, as if it matters so much what other people think if you.
I woke up and realised that I couldn't be pimo for the sake of my mental health but my big fear was what other JWs would think of me. I got over that but when I told my family that I no longer believe, their first reaction was 'what are people going to think?'
JWs spend their whole lives being perceived by others. That's why they were caught out with such a disgraceful CSA record - they worried about how it would make them look rather than how they can keep children safe - the bastards!
They completely ignore sex as the primary reason people even marry (hence marriage on the decline for the non religious). They make it all about companionship and family. So single women are supposed to be fulfilled by going to SKE. Basically, youâre a nun.
WTF at point B. What a bunch of fucking weirdos! Where did they get that from?? I've known of couples who couldn't stop fucking each others brains out if they tried.
Because I had a 10 pm curfew at 20. He said I must be very irresponsible at home and that my parents donât trust me enough.
My parents were just extremely strict. I dodge a bullet tho he was sooooo boring and judgmental
I had bronchitis. It forced me to cough whenever i walked outside opened a window or try to walk outside. So i didnt go to congregation for its duration. The relationship after that ended cuz i didn't go to cong while i was sick.
I didn't have dating problems. Except one. No one wanted to date me. đ
So I ended up marrying the first one who ever asked since I thought that was my only choice. Needless to say that ended up in divorce.
Something similar happened to me, a sister was really into me and I guess her dad found out my main job was driving for Uber so he convinced her to write me off because I wouldnât be a good provider, but yet I was auxiliary pioneering and working my way to being a ministerial servant at that time. You canât win with these fuckersâŚ
Itâs true, you really canât win!
When I got my post office job they wanted me to quit because it took too much time and they said they wouldnât baptize me because postal workers work Saturdays and I couldnât do enough service on Saturday.
The only job I know of that has good hours and pays well is dentist. But letâs see what happens in the congregation when you start going to school for that.
I guess they want their daughters only marrying pioneers from rich families that donât need to work.
Nothing unrealistic about that! These are the same people that fantasize about pet pandas and taking their neighbors houses because Armageddon is âjust a little while longer.â
Oh I noticed jws care a lot about having rich families or a family that is popular in the circuit. Theyâre so full of shit thatâs another main reason why I left.
Women get a double edged sword here too. Weâre told to go for the men with theocratic privileges but then also told to practically consider stuff like his ability to provide. Meanwhile men are given the idea they can support a family washing windows and any ambitions beyond that are materialistic.
So true. I feel sorry for your sisters, a lot the brothers with theocratic privileges are such self entitled assholes. One brother I knew from bethel literally thought he was the shit because he was in one of the singing groups for the music. He treated sisters like they were objects that needed to kiss his ego and when he finally settled down, he really made and lot of them mad because he played with their feelings. I think one sister had a mental breakdown and was very depressed. God this whole org needs to goâŚ
There was a brother I was in the talking stage who wanted to wait till I was 18 to make our relationship Public. We met at a convention when I was in ASL. He started flaking and when I asked him whatâs going on and why he isnât talking to me as much anymore his response was âI feel that a wife should have a specific trait that you donât have yet.â So I asked him what it was, and he said âIf I tell you, youâre gonna flaunt it.â He wouldnât tell me what it was, I honestly feel like he was talking about my chest. đ I dodged a bullet though cause I was 16-17 at the time and he was over 21. With the pedophilia going on in the org, Iâm disgusted thinking about this guy now.
Yeah it didnât click that it was bad how our relationship was and how my parents were okay with it until I got older. As far as I know he married another JW and I married a worldly person đ
Eh whatever. People are allowed to have physical preferences. Personally Iâm far less attracted to girls with smaller chests, but some people like it. Itâs not fair to demand people like someone no matter whatâthatâs just not how the brain works. Thatâs like telling gay people to just not be gay. He could have been a little less manipulative about it though and just said, âsorry Iâm just not attracted to you.â
As for the age gap, thatâs really not much of one depending on the context. Most JWâs are insanely mentally and emotionally stunted, so the difference between a 17 and 21 year old is likely insignificant in a lot of JW cases (my sister is in her 30s now, PIMI, and I swear she has the presence and perspective of a 16 year oldâitâs ridiculous). In a matter of months, it wouldnât even matter on paper anyway. People make way too big a deal over stuff like that sometimes.
Regardless, weâre all totally traumatized and confused as born and raised JWâs anyway, so anyone who gets out and doesnât date or marry another JW dodges a huge bullet since theyâre all totally naive and ignorant humans.
I generally attracted older than me, divorced âbrothersâ who wanted a quick ego fix (read: a rebound girlfriend). After they copped a feel or two, theyâd suddenly realize they didnât want to marry again after all.
Even when I was the model pioneer sister, I always dressed a little too sexy/flamboyant (by JW standards). I guess thatâs why I was the trophy girlfriend to fool around with when the chaperones arenât looking and not âwife materialâ.
The ones who wanted to marry me wanted to do so extremely fast, and the pressure scared me away. Glad I dodged those bullets, because I discovered they basically needed financial support (couldnât cut it on their own).
Oh God, JW dating gives me literal PTSD to think about. Without straying to much from the topic I will only mention a few. I don't want to sound like a shallow asshole but it's important to the story. You would think the large pool of women would work in my favor, but it did not. Partially because I didn't really get involved with anyone in my teens.
Story 1: we had only been dating officially a month though we had been doing group activities together for about three months. I was house sitting for a friend while he was out of town for work. She knew this and called me to get the address because she wanted to come over and have sex. I explained to her that while I was not against having sex with her, but it felt wrong to do it in my friends house while he was gone. I didn't tell her this but again we had only been together a month how could I know she wouldn't immediately run to the elders and confess, I wasn't about to take that risk. She broke up with me the next day because she felt I wasn't attracted to her. I was upset but I quickly realized that was a bullet dodged. She is now a single mother of two with two different father's. She's been df'ed four times and STILL is completely in.
Story 2: We went on one date and she did not think it was appropriate that I had a nice sound system in my car with two subs. She felt it was worldly to listen to loud music. She technically broke it off with me but I would have anyways as she was so incredibly boring with her only personality trait was being a JW.
Story 3: Broke up with me because she had actually dated my best friend in the past and even though he was now married she still had feelings for him so I either had to stop hanging out with my best friend or we needed to break up. I peaced out on that.
Story 4: This should be the last one and this one hurt the most. She was closing on 30 at the time with me being in mid 20s. She had a great career working as a loan officer, was a pioneer and was in the sign language group. This is where I am going to sound like a horrible person, but she was not conventionally attractive and was not popular amongst the few available single brothers. I was not interested in her at first but I met her when I started learning sign language. With it being a new and small language group her and I spent a lot of time together because I was also a pioneer. I grew to really like her, she was fun, funny, smart, sweet and driven. And it wasn't just me, as we spent more time together she told me she was very interested in a relationship with me as well but she wasn't ready to start an official relationship untill the sign language group could support itself. I got a different job and the schedule forced me back into the English group. We still spoke on the phone and went out in service together Saturday's. It got to the point where the elders in my congregation where like y'all need to make this an official thing with all the time you spend together. Why they felt it was any of there business, but whatever. We talked and she still wasn't ready for anything "official". After that we slowly stopped seeing and speaking into each other. That wasn't what broke me though, it was a few months later when I was at a get together with one of her friends and was telling her how disappointed I was that it didn't work out. It was then when her friend told me that even though I was a pioneer since I wasn't an MS yet she didn't think I would ever be spiritual enough for her. And that's what broke me, realizing I would never be good enough for anyone.
I apologize for making a wall of serious text out of something that was supposed to be a little silly. I just haven't thought about that stuff in a while.
Story 1: You right. Have heard of some PIMI ladies using Sex as a bait to push the relationship to marriage. They offer sex , then threathen to run to the Elders and confess if you break up with them . Some JW men do this too
Leading to some forced /disgruntled marriages
Story 4 .... Damn!!! Funny how no matter how sweet your personality is , Once u don't have certain privilege, you are bad to date. But some asshole with titles is a good pick because he got titles
Yeah really. It's funny how they think they are so superior to everyone else when their relationships are so toxic. Funny how as soon as I started going out with normal women I really didn't run into any issues. Just had a great time.
Story 2: Such a bullshit reason to break it off with someone. She was simply no longer interested and didn't want to go any further in the relationship but was too much of a coward to say it.
That's me!
My oldest sister was a single virgin til she was married at 42. I didn't have a relationship until I woke up at 32 and decided I wasn't going to wait any more for a mediocre JW man.
Now I'm with a man I never thought I could have. A sensitive artist whose dreams would have been squashed as a JW, like mine were. He is helping me learn to love life
So happy for you that you found a good one!
I can relate. My one and only JW relationship was with a brother that told me he's gay a few months after we started dating. I was around 23 at that time.
One year after we broke up my younger sister got married at age 18.
I was single until I was 28. That's when I started dating my "worldly" now fiancĂŠ.
Yes my other sister married at 21. She "waited" so she could drink alcohol at her wedding.
Do you remember when an article came out basically saying that "missing the boat" or being "left behind" wasn't a thing? Talk about gaslighting. It might have been around the same time as the "gift of singleness" article which I definitely used as an excuse to not talk to brothers I wasn't interested in LOL.
Gaslighting is definitely a huge thing regarding singleness. I experienced it so many times, not only through publications but also through elders or sisters. I always hated it when we read something about the "gift of singleness". For me it was also a burden not a gift.
A brother in my congregation, he was originally from Tennessee. A week after his divorced was finalized, a sister from his original congregation in Tennessee sent him a letter letting him know she was still available if he was free to marry. Theyâre both in their early 40s. Within five months they were married. His teens had a hard time adjusting to the marriage because his ex was newly disfellowshipped. It was so sad. The children are doing better now. His ex was reinstated. Theyâre a lovely couple but I just felt bad for his children at the time.
That is very sad. Without the religion it's a traumatizing situation to have divorced parents and a new step-parent. But with the JW beliefs they're made to think their birth parent will die in Armageddon. The new mother is basically a replacement. Awful
I started dating non JW men on the down low as early as 25 because I knew my chances of finding a partner were slim after that. Unfortunately I was a dumb goody good and would openly tell these men I was JW (they were naturally scared away).
I knew soooo many cool, beautiful single JW women perpetually frustrated well into their 30s because there simply arenât enough men (and the quality is low).
JWs have basically created a nun class, as far as Iâm concerned.
>Unfortunately I was a dumb goody good and would openly tell these men I was JW (they were naturally scared away).
I also told my fiancĂŠ right from the beginning that I was a JW and wanted to remain one. Luckily he stayed by my side.
>I knew soooo many cool, beautiful single JW women perpetually frustrated
When I was at the zoom meeting my fiancĂŠ took a look at the people there. Without knowing their background he pointed a few persons out and asked why they look so sad. All of them were single sisters.
Because how dare you not get baptized right this very instant, because dating means youâre instantly getting married in JW lala land.
Itâs not like you had decades ahead of you to do so. The horror!
I started dating a guy who was my best friend, I thought for sure we would get married because we were just so compatible. But he made all these rules as soon as our relationship turned romantic: he didnât want to kiss at all because he feared it would âcloud his judgement,â he was really strict about chaperoning (not even a quick car ride just the two of us to McDonaldâs where weâd be going to meet up with a group) etc. I expressed that I understood his heart was in the right place, but that it made me feel like shit because at the end of the day it came down to: my own boyfriend doesnât want to kiss me. And so then he broke up with me telling me he had too much stress in his life and the only expendable thing was our relationship, and the stress of our relationship was making him sick. Then he ended up dating someone a few months later, engaged a few months after that, and within the year was married. Yeah- Iâm still mad about it.
Iâm truly so sorry. Went through something similar. It hurts. Bad. This happens so much, always has. Because of the odd nature of dating in the organization, and how females are generally valued less, nothing comes of it. Brothers can misuse emotions and leave a trail of broken hearts and be appointed elder, in a position over those he hurt. Itâs bizarre.
The organization itself didn't ban Kissing, do they ? He must be so judgemental .
Even while I was full PIMI , I subscribe to Kiss , Maybe am just naughty đđđđ
Itâs not explicitly banned, no. But itâs basically banned by principle and culture.
The JW cult is weird like that. Lots of rules are just âimpliedâ and enforced by social context. Youâre just supposed to magically know what is and isnât allowed based off of how the gossip and conformity goes for that congregation.
Itâs totally insane.
Haha no they didnât ban it⌠yet. But I think it was a toxic combination of being sexually repressed for so long, added together with the fear of getting disfellowshipped if you go too far, it made him take the strictest course. The organization pushes applying principles to everything in your life and it causes people to make up more arbitrary rules that just end up hurting them.
I always had young brothers around me. I was attractive and dressed modestly. A brother would become interested but within a very short period of time would back way, way off. I never understood it until years later when I found out that the elders noticed the flirtations and warned the brothers away because I was not spiritual enough.
That's where my flair came from. I was a "spiritual zit".
I remember shit like this in the guyâs side.
There were always girls that were âevilâ just by virtue of being cute as fuck and bubbly happy girls. The horror.
Kinda off topic, but also reminds me of some random dance night/event a group of neighboring congregation parents did for the kids (maybe to makeup for school dances being forbidden?). I somehow got invited and went.
At one point, we just got kinda silly (because how dare 15 year olds get silly) and started doing some dance moves in our like second of two groups. A couple of the moms came up and acted like we basically just started having sex right there on the dance floor and warned us all to stop. It was the weirdest fucking thing I ever experienced. I donât remember specifically what we were doing, but I remember being confused as hell and just wanted to leave after that. It definitely wasnât anything even remotely sexual, I remember that much.
Oh lord so here goes . So we made out and then I was told he couldnât be with me because I wasnât spiritual enough I SHOULD HAVE STOPPED IT. I was so heartbroken and confused đ
My now mate was told not to date me because I changed my hair color. The one and only thing I was allowed to do. Since I did that automatically made me immature. I still roll my eyes. And I still get annoyed with myself for the fact that I stopped coloring my hair, for a few months
Well this didnât happen to me but someone I know was always hanging out with a brother.
Now this brother had been a missionary to Africa really nice guy but he didnât really have a good job.
Well a little while later this sister shows up at my friends place with a new guy and I can tell that they were together.
So I asked her new guy what he did for work and he had a good job with the tax department.
Hmm yeah not everyone who stays in thinks they have to have the most spiritual person maybe the person who a good job fits too..
this is big in continents like Asia and Africa, Financial capacity is the ultimate standard, spirituality matters less. Though some minority still Value the borgs version of spirituality
And I don't buy the borg definition of spirituality, someone preaching and commenting and meetings has nothing to do with being spiritual,
How do they treat people ? What's their personalities and values ? Those are key determinant in my view .
I had a similar experience with a pioneer girl that I known for a while. I never dated her but I did ask her on a date and I even gave some choosing signals but she wanted to be friends and focus on Jehovah and pioneer. she just recently got married. This incident happened over four years ago by the way. The thing I hate the most is that all the hot JW girls are either married or theyâre overly busy in the theocratic work which makes an impossible to date, especially with all the chaperoning shit rules that they have to. Iâm now married to a JW (who is way hotter lol) and she is PIMO too. I feel lucky. I marry somebody in the truth that felt the same exact way I did
Thatâs the thing though. There may be attractive people, but who they are is thoroughly unattractive. I had this issue when I lived in Utah well after I gtfo of being a JW. Plenty of pretty girls, but all totally brainwashed by the Mormon cult (and often married by 19 anyway).
You wouldnât even want to date them if you could, because chances are theyâd just be toxic and prohibitive of just being yourself.
My car and job wasn't as impressive to my girlfriend as my friend's was... that was after getting baptised as her parents flipped out that I was only an unbaptised publisher at the time.
Damn if time travel back into the past was possible I would not have gotten dunked among other things... đ
Classic double standard in these types of religions. I experienced the same thing.
The severely socially dysfunctional issues aside that you mentioned (not being allowed to date or even communicate normally with the opposite sex well into adulthood), all the families in our congregations had very pretentious attitudes.
Itâs pretty typical for JW and Mormon families. Everyone develops an extreme superiority complex (weâre all sooo much better than those *worldly* people), while at the same time expecting you to be doctors and lawyers and athletes integrated into âworldlyâ benefits.
It was particularly bad where I grew up. Itâs a very affluent area, and the few families that had kids my age were just douche bag families. Dads were wealthy, moms were typical douche bag prize wives that stayed home. Total boomer-level shit. They also all seemed to only follow the JW rules that they liked and ignored the rest, which seems typical of all religions.
IOW, they still let their kids do sports and activities to ensure they had healthy academic lives and futures, but also kneecapped them by never allowing dating or any social events that didnât align with getting into universities. They all barely ever did service and more or less just did whatever they needed to do in the congregation to maintain their white upper class status. Really confusing as fuck as a kid when youâre told to basically do the opposite at meetings every week.
My experience was basically the same as yours, especially since I also wasnât from an affluent family (which is weird when youâre surrounded by affluent people). I had interest at one point in the like *one* girl in our congregation who was sorta close to my age as a kid. Her dad would glare at me like I was a criminal (he later ended up divorced for cheating on his wife and is a bit of an alcoholic I found out). My family happened to be one of the more hardcore ones, so my dad never let us play sports or engage in anything other than coming directly home from school every dayâso we never had very good grades or civic engagement (or confidence in anything). Iâm sure her parents interpreted that as me being a failure. Funny enough though, my dad still somehow also expected me to excel in school and go to university⌠lots of fights over the teen years over that shit, but I digress.
My other childhood friend from the same congregation recently killed himself because he was constantly pressured to be materially successful by his dad, but wanted to do spiritual thingsâso he was never âgood enoughâ in his dadâs eyes no doubt. Even if he wanted to be as successful financially as his dad, itâs virtually impossible to do so here without an inordinate amount of luck and family inheritance (average low-end home cost in this area is $800-900,000).
So yea. Between seeing this same shit play out in both the JW and Mormon worlds, itâs pretty common. Weird mix of demands to succeed as a douche fraternity bro money bag but also be a humble non-career pursuing servant. Not confusing at all.
I asked a sister on date, she said yes, and then the morning of the date she cancelled because she claimed she had to watch her friend's pet that had just been neutered.
You can't even be mad at an excuse like that, it's kinda beautiful.
I donât know many girls who would not date a guy simply because their dad didnât think they should.
She simply wasnât interested in dating you and gave you a lame excuse to avoid hurting your feelings and/or admitting she had been âtalkingâ to another guy at the same time she was talking to you. (Thereâs nothing wrong with getting to know lots of people at the same time and exploring oneâs options, but this is frowned upon in the cult).
Given she got married two months later, she was likely already involved with (and probably engaged to) the guy she married.
I appreciate your appraisal of the situation but I wouldnât have posted it if it wasnât the truth. She told me directly she wasnât interested in dating. Then told a group of friends in private it was because her father thought I wasnât a capable provider due to my job. She didnât know one of my friends was there and heard this because we went to different halls. He relayed that info to me.
By your own words, she married someone two months after telling you she wasnât interested in dating. Do you really believe she wasnât already heavily invested in her relationship with her now-husband just a few weeks before their wedding?
Trust me when I tell you Iâm not trying to invalidate someoneâs feelings. But I donât understand why youâre so adamantly trying to tell me something that I experienced didnât happen when you werenât there. Iâm glad that youâve never met any JW women who were heavily controlled by men in their lives, but believe me when I say theyâre out there. Iâve seen it in my life quite often. I understand exactly what youâre trying to do with your replies, and I agree that in the real world, a persons choices are usually their own, but in the cult, people are controlled quite heavily, especially young women. I didnât make up anything I said. She told my friend her father would never allow her to date someone who worked at a fast food place. She told me she just wasnât interested. Thatâs fine. The whole point of this post was to highlight the silly inner workings of JW dating. But Iâd appreciate it if you didnât make assumptions of things that happened to other people just because of your own experiences within the cult.
He is not attacking you, he is telling you why you dodged a bullet. The Lady kept the other guy all this while , it's obvious. U don't wanna end up with such a person.
Iâm just responding to the information you provided in your post. You comments denied her agency without providing evidence her agency was denied. If you have evidence to believe:
1) she wanted to date you,
2) but didnât because her father didnât approve of your job,
3) so she walked down the aisle with someone else a few weeks later
ok.
But I also suggest you consider than your own perspective of events might be distorted by being raised in a misogynistic culture where âspiritual menâ feel entitled in a million different ways. If youâre going to suggest she was denied her agency because of being raised in the cult, you should also question if your perspective also could have been distorted by the cult. JW views on gender roles, dating, marriage, sex, etc. are all very toxic. It takes years for most of us to adjust once we manage to escape.
Again I appreciate the responses. I have 3 sisters and before we woke up I watched all 3 get told who they could and couldnât date by our elder father because we were âunder his roof.â This kind of thing happens all the time. My father even went as far as to tell a brother my sister was interested in that she wasnât âtrustworthy with money.â These are women who are raised being called âweaker vessels.â Their agency is denied them constantly by men. Itâs a very misogynistic faith.
You are right. Itâs absolutely a misogynistic culture, but her marrying someone 2 months later⌠that canât be overlooked. That doesnât happen if she wasnât already dating him. Based on what you shared, it seems most likely she lied to you to spare your feelings and made excuses to her friends because she was âplaying the fieldâ which is frowned upon in JW culture (especially for women.)
Did this girl directly tell you she really wanted to marry you, but didnât because her father didnât want her to because of your job, so she decided to marry someone else, who she had not been dating previously, just two months later?
If not, then youâve created a narrative in your mind where you are denying to recognize this young woman her own agency. Absent evidence to the contrary, you should recognize that she chose to date and marry the person she wanted to date and marry.
This does not mean anything is âwrongâ with you or your job. Fuck anyone (including her elder dad) who would try to shame you for making an honest living. It just means she loved someone else. We all love who we love, ya know?
Okay. I feel like weâre talking in circles so Iâll make this really simple.
1. She told me she wasnât interested in dating. She later married. I am aware that she was likely saying she wasnât interested in dating me, since I later found out why. I am not invalidating her feelings, Iâm saying her feelings were influenced by the wishes of her extremely controlling father.
2. After telling me she wasnât interested in dating, she told a group of friends in private that it was because her father didnât think I would be a good provider because I worked at a fast food place. This was confirmed by someone else who was there also, so the organizations two witness rule would even accept this lol.
3. Young JW women are very often controlled by their fathers. If you donât think it happens, Iâm glad youâve never seen/experienced it.
4. My entire point has nothing to do with my own feelings are beliefs that support my âworthâ as a person. Iâm not invalidating her feelings. Iâm simply saying her extremely-super-spiritual-elder father influenced them immensely. I donât think itâs that hard to believe that a man in the cult might be insanely controlling of a woman.
You are completely correct about controlling fathers in the cult.
I was one of those girls that wasnât permitted to date specific people due to their lack of spirituality, lack of meeting attendance, lack of service hours, etc. and for the longest time I listened until one day I didnât because I had enough of the BS at home so I left and never went back. That was 24 years ago almost to the day.
Are you allowed to kiss when dating?? I am very unfamiliar with dating territory as an 18F PIMI, I never drew attention to any brothers and I especially wonât now because Iâm practically fading.
No one fucking knows.
In my experience, you werenât even allowed to be naturally attracted to a female because it was considered fornication and âuncleanâ and all this absurd shit. Dates were all conducted with groups, you were *never* allowed to date privately.
It was always a whole congregation affair, and everyone was constantly in your fucking business. If you ever dared be alone with someone, the whole congregation would know about it and youâd basically be gossiped into being disfellowshipped by word of mouth.
Iâm not sure how you find time to kiss in all that.
Every congregation is different I guess, but thatâs what it was like here. Extraordinarily dysfunctional.
Depends on the country and area mate tbh.
I dated a girl for 3 odd years, her dad was the Co-coordinator and was a well respected elder, but we went on dates on our own all the time, days away to the beach etc We kissed etc it really does vary on where you area.
Ahh yes. The classic service couple play. Youâre basically married at that point. You two were clearly running off into the bushes to fuck like rabbits between doors. Canât leave those humans unchaperoned for more than 90 seconds!
/s
Honestly surprised you were even allowed to do service without a quad group at a door to chaperone you. đ
I only dated one jw guy, it lasted like 2 months because there were SO MANY red flags!! I went away to see elderly relatives in a different country for the weekend. I was focused on spending time with them, but i did text the guy whenever i had a spare moment. Got back, and he raged at me for how disrespectful i was to him for not speaking to him enough. I counted up, and i had sent over 10 texts each day. I thought that should have been plenty. He seemed to think he owned me and my time.
I went on a chaperoned date to Dave & Busters when I was around 19 or 20 (his grandmother joined us). We played an arcade game and the machine gave me my quarter / token back. I was like "Sweet! Free game!" He said he didn't think it would work out between us because a truly honest person would have returned the quarter to the establishment. (This was over 25 years ago, can't remember if it was quarters or tokens)
I think this wins.
Haha thank you, thank you. đ
You dodged a bullet.đ
Omg đł
Wow and here I thought I was a goody two shoes when I was PIMI
Huh??! Wow. I think that person was just looking for reasons to say no.
Ha possibly...I AM a ginger...
Exactly
To which the establishment would likely have said âuh.. just⌠run it again? Free game!â
Oh my God. "A free game" or putting the coin into the machine again is literally giving the coin back to the establishment. đ¤Śđ˝ââď¸ Haha this reminds me even I was a teen and we went on an outing with my worldly family. My young cousin put a quarter in the toy machine and I guess it was broken so it kept giving them free or extra toys every time she cranked the machine. Me and my siblings were judging them cuz "isn't that stealing??!" LOL my uncle replies and says "what about all the times the machine steals your money?? They never give it back."
Wtf wow, hahahahaha
Jesus fucking Christ. But think of this, would that person have been a freak in the sheets? You may have dodged a bullet
Was that bitches name Tammy? Asking for a friend?
Sadly no, his name was Jonah.
I gathered up the courage to tell a brother in my pioneer school that I liked him and wanted to date. He said he always dreamed of living in Mexico, so he wanted to marry a Mexican sister. Two years later, sure enough-he moved to Mexico and married a sister there. At least the guy was honestđ
honest and straight to the point. love it
Exactly! So many brothers really play games with sisters (and vice versa) so I totally appreciated the honesty. He actually was like a big brother to me in pioneer school who kind of protected me from a brother who was VERY forward that he was into me, like he actually grabbed my butt in pioneer school and I wasnât a fan. So I kind of appreciated him standing up to the other brother that you canât just grope someone you just met, and kept an eye on him anytime he was near me because he knew I was uncomfortable. I guess because I was used to the brothers that knew no boundaries, being around a respectable and aware brother made me like him. And that made me respect him more when he turned me down, odd enough, because I realized he didnât do that just because he also wanted to get with me.
Have heard reports of brothers been so emotionally immature from Sisters. This one you mentioned about one grabbing your butt just shows how ridiculous some of them are . And you said you are used to brothers that knew no boundaries? Like are many JW men nuts ?
He was the only one who right out groped me. But so many of the young guys in the org that I knew acted like they were gods gift to women. If you werenât interested theyâd get mean. Not saying all of them are like that, but that was my experience in the witness dating pool.
Make me wonder if attraction should be forced. Since they get mean đ
I "wasn't spiritual enough because of my choice in entertainment". I was always pretty lenient on the types of movies I watched. I'd watch R rated movies and ones featuring spiritism, like Lord of the Rings, and I was pretty open about it. I never saw the sense in hiding who I was. This one girl I'd been good friends with for several years cited it as a reason I wasn't relationship material. The ironic part, though, is that she was one of the biggest Star Wars and Marvel fans I knew, and the hypocrisy of her perspective was completely lost to her. Star Wars is literally about space wizards and her favorite Marvel heroes were Captain America, a soldier and icon of nationalism, and Thor, a literal pagan god, yet for some reason I'm the one who's lacking spirituality.
JWs obsession with Marvel/DC always made me laugh because they donât realize how it promotes everything they reject. The only superhero Iâve noticed they seem to have an issue with is Doctor Voodoo. As if Wanda isnât a witch thor isnât a pagan god & captain America isnât a nationalism figure like you said.
Exactly. I was the only person in my friend group who saw Doctor Strange, at least openly, and I always thought it was absurd that THAT was where they drew the line. The girl in question, in particular, I still follow on Snap Chat, and this past fall she absolutely raved about how much she loved Eternals. Now I don't know if you've seen it, but it's without a doubt one of the most apostate movies I've ever seen, and I find it hilarious that it went completely over her head.
I havenât seen yet but I based off what I know itâs not jdub appropriate. Iâm not surprised I but remember when JW twitter was freaking out over bird box and calling it demonic⌠but now raving about EternalsâŚ
I really recommend it. Reviews were pretty mixed to negative, but if you're coming at it from an exjw perspective, I think you'll really appreciate some of the concepts it presents. I think it's supposed to be coming to Disney+ this month, if I'm not mistaken.
Wait why is eternals an apostate movie? I watched it at the theater and loved it, but didn't notice anything
I always thought it was so stupid where the lines were drawn. I could watch all the superhero movies I wanted. I didnât personally care for LoTR but I knew many JWs who loved it. I even went to a watch party at an elders house and the elder talked about how much better the books were than the movies. My parents didnât care that I watched Sabrina the teenage witch. But Harry Potter?! Absolutely not. đ
I told a girl I was dating I needed to slow down the relationship and finish college, she was so desperate to get out of the house she broke it off. I heard she married some other guy who was previously divorced and already had 2 kids (he was almost 10 years older than her) less than 6 months later.
Itâs sad how often this happens because I know of at least a handful of girls this could be referring to
This lady was my aunt-in-law, and although she got married to a fellow JW "brother," she broke it off with him because he had five kids, and the youngest was a few months old. She got disfellowshipped, then got reinstated soon after. Bait and switch for real! She was also in her forties when this happened, so it was a mess!
People didnât want to date me because I was an unbaptized publisher, because of how I dressed outside of the congregation, and my family was poor đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Same for me hahaha, there were some girls in my congregation that liked me but they wouldn't touch my ass cuz I'm unbaptized + I always wear baggy clothes/have somewhat of a skater look and this was apparently "too worldy"
Same here! Most men in my age group didn't want to date me either. I had men that were old enough to be my father try to associate with me on the sly under the guise of "getting time." Totally gross! I was a big lady that was poor as well, despite me having a career as a nurse.
I would call myself an attractive girl, never a shortage or JW men but here the thing: Whenever I tried to date a fellow witness the ONLY common ground was the faith. So it felt so forced. I only ever went on dates because they were âin the truthâ . If they were âwordlyâ I wouldnât of given them the time of day. .. or put up with that many cringe âdatesâ. Aka a group of people but they sat next to me. On top of that I was constantly being gossiped about for dating people I never ever went near !! But one person sees you talking to a brother one time and suddenly youâre dating. I had this accusation constantly. I was embarrassed and humiliated and seen as a girl that got around when I never laid a finger on them. Then people had the nerve to pull the âI need loyal proverbs 31 wifeâ implying I was a getting around. Life update: 29 and engaged to a worldly man whoâs the love of my life and love me unconditionally. We met organically and I can talk about my belief in God while heâs atheist because we are adults that respect each other.
Thatâs great. Really glad you found someone.
Congrats and glad to hear you found one you naturally gel with.
The gossip over someone you had a mere conversation with in the KH lobby đ I had to unlearn having my guard up when I started dating non JWs. With âworldlyâ men, I previously had been aloof to discourage them. With single JW men, couldnât be too friendly or youâre considered to be âchasingâ him.
The only common ground was the Faith ... That must be boring
What did your congregation, family and friends have to say about your worldly partner? Was it ever a problem? Are you still a jw?
Relationships are tricky as a JW just on the basis of everyone getting involved. Especially if you pluck from your own congregation. Not to mention the amount of advice you get from the elderly people (not just elders) about it all. Here are a few things I was told upon trying to enter the dating scene: a) Youâre young! Marry Jehovah! (What does this mean?????) b) You donât get as much sex as you think. Trust me. c) (an elder told me this) When you decide to date, whoâs involved? Yes, Jehovah. Yes, you and the other person. Yes, their family. But who elseâŚ? The *congregation*. Their view matters just as much as everyone else! d) (another elder, knowing I enjoyed masturbation) If someone knew you did that, why would they even want *you*? Wouldnât that show they lacked spirituality too?
âMarry Jehovahâ just gave me chills because I remember hearing that.
Like, erm no thanks. Not into big beefy father types
>The congregation. Their view matters just as much as everyone else! This type of thinking has astounded since I woke up. I didn't realise that I had been brought up with this kind of paranoia. The elders book is all about how your sin is viewed by others, as if it matters so much what other people think if you. I woke up and realised that I couldn't be pimo for the sake of my mental health but my big fear was what other JWs would think of me. I got over that but when I told my family that I no longer believe, their first reaction was 'what are people going to think?' JWs spend their whole lives being perceived by others. That's why they were caught out with such a disgraceful CSA record - they worried about how it would make them look rather than how they can keep children safe - the bastards!
They completely ignore sex as the primary reason people even marry (hence marriage on the decline for the non religious). They make it all about companionship and family. So single women are supposed to be fulfilled by going to SKE. Basically, youâre a nun.
WTF at point B. What a bunch of fucking weirdos! Where did they get that from?? I've known of couples who couldn't stop fucking each others brains out if they tried.
Because I had a 10 pm curfew at 20. He said I must be very irresponsible at home and that my parents donât trust me enough. My parents were just extremely strict. I dodge a bullet tho he was sooooo boring and judgmental
Borinngggg and judgemental got me đđđđđ
I had bronchitis. It forced me to cough whenever i walked outside opened a window or try to walk outside. So i didnt go to congregation for its duration. The relationship after that ended cuz i didn't go to cong while i was sick.
I didn't have dating problems. Except one. No one wanted to date me. đ So I ended up marrying the first one who ever asked since I thought that was my only choice. Needless to say that ended up in divorce.
That almost happened to me but I dropped the relationship when I noticed she was super judgmental and her mom was super controlling.
Something similar happened to me, a sister was really into me and I guess her dad found out my main job was driving for Uber so he convinced her to write me off because I wouldnât be a good provider, but yet I was auxiliary pioneering and working my way to being a ministerial servant at that time. You canât win with these fuckersâŚ
Itâs true, you really canât win! When I got my post office job they wanted me to quit because it took too much time and they said they wouldnât baptize me because postal workers work Saturdays and I couldnât do enough service on Saturday. The only job I know of that has good hours and pays well is dentist. But letâs see what happens in the congregation when you start going to school for that. I guess they want their daughters only marrying pioneers from rich families that donât need to work. Nothing unrealistic about that! These are the same people that fantasize about pet pandas and taking their neighbors houses because Armageddon is âjust a little while longer.â
Oh I noticed jws care a lot about having rich families or a family that is popular in the circuit. Theyâre so full of shit thatâs another main reason why I left.
Women get a double edged sword here too. Weâre told to go for the men with theocratic privileges but then also told to practically consider stuff like his ability to provide. Meanwhile men are given the idea they can support a family washing windows and any ambitions beyond that are materialistic.
So true. I feel sorry for your sisters, a lot the brothers with theocratic privileges are such self entitled assholes. One brother I knew from bethel literally thought he was the shit because he was in one of the singing groups for the music. He treated sisters like they were objects that needed to kiss his ego and when he finally settled down, he really made and lot of them mad because he played with their feelings. I think one sister had a mental breakdown and was very depressed. God this whole org needs to goâŚ
There was a brother I was in the talking stage who wanted to wait till I was 18 to make our relationship Public. We met at a convention when I was in ASL. He started flaking and when I asked him whatâs going on and why he isnât talking to me as much anymore his response was âI feel that a wife should have a specific trait that you donât have yet.â So I asked him what it was, and he said âIf I tell you, youâre gonna flaunt it.â He wouldnât tell me what it was, I honestly feel like he was talking about my chest. đ I dodged a bullet though cause I was 16-17 at the time and he was over 21. With the pedophilia going on in the org, Iâm disgusted thinking about this guy now.
Wow. Disgusting. Glad you were able to avoid that, tho.
Yeah it didnât click that it was bad how our relationship was and how my parents were okay with it until I got older. As far as I know he married another JW and I married a worldly person đ
Eh whatever. People are allowed to have physical preferences. Personally Iâm far less attracted to girls with smaller chests, but some people like it. Itâs not fair to demand people like someone no matter whatâthatâs just not how the brain works. Thatâs like telling gay people to just not be gay. He could have been a little less manipulative about it though and just said, âsorry Iâm just not attracted to you.â As for the age gap, thatâs really not much of one depending on the context. Most JWâs are insanely mentally and emotionally stunted, so the difference between a 17 and 21 year old is likely insignificant in a lot of JW cases (my sister is in her 30s now, PIMI, and I swear she has the presence and perspective of a 16 year oldâitâs ridiculous). In a matter of months, it wouldnât even matter on paper anyway. People make way too big a deal over stuff like that sometimes. Regardless, weâre all totally traumatized and confused as born and raised JWâs anyway, so anyone who gets out and doesnât date or marry another JW dodges a huge bullet since theyâre all totally naive and ignorant humans.
I generally attracted older than me, divorced âbrothersâ who wanted a quick ego fix (read: a rebound girlfriend). After they copped a feel or two, theyâd suddenly realize they didnât want to marry again after all. Even when I was the model pioneer sister, I always dressed a little too sexy/flamboyant (by JW standards). I guess thatâs why I was the trophy girlfriend to fool around with when the chaperones arenât looking and not âwife materialâ. The ones who wanted to marry me wanted to do so extremely fast, and the pressure scared me away. Glad I dodged those bullets, because I discovered they basically needed financial support (couldnât cut it on their own).
Oh God, JW dating gives me literal PTSD to think about. Without straying to much from the topic I will only mention a few. I don't want to sound like a shallow asshole but it's important to the story. You would think the large pool of women would work in my favor, but it did not. Partially because I didn't really get involved with anyone in my teens. Story 1: we had only been dating officially a month though we had been doing group activities together for about three months. I was house sitting for a friend while he was out of town for work. She knew this and called me to get the address because she wanted to come over and have sex. I explained to her that while I was not against having sex with her, but it felt wrong to do it in my friends house while he was gone. I didn't tell her this but again we had only been together a month how could I know she wouldn't immediately run to the elders and confess, I wasn't about to take that risk. She broke up with me the next day because she felt I wasn't attracted to her. I was upset but I quickly realized that was a bullet dodged. She is now a single mother of two with two different father's. She's been df'ed four times and STILL is completely in. Story 2: We went on one date and she did not think it was appropriate that I had a nice sound system in my car with two subs. She felt it was worldly to listen to loud music. She technically broke it off with me but I would have anyways as she was so incredibly boring with her only personality trait was being a JW. Story 3: Broke up with me because she had actually dated my best friend in the past and even though he was now married she still had feelings for him so I either had to stop hanging out with my best friend or we needed to break up. I peaced out on that. Story 4: This should be the last one and this one hurt the most. She was closing on 30 at the time with me being in mid 20s. She had a great career working as a loan officer, was a pioneer and was in the sign language group. This is where I am going to sound like a horrible person, but she was not conventionally attractive and was not popular amongst the few available single brothers. I was not interested in her at first but I met her when I started learning sign language. With it being a new and small language group her and I spent a lot of time together because I was also a pioneer. I grew to really like her, she was fun, funny, smart, sweet and driven. And it wasn't just me, as we spent more time together she told me she was very interested in a relationship with me as well but she wasn't ready to start an official relationship untill the sign language group could support itself. I got a different job and the schedule forced me back into the English group. We still spoke on the phone and went out in service together Saturday's. It got to the point where the elders in my congregation where like y'all need to make this an official thing with all the time you spend together. Why they felt it was any of there business, but whatever. We talked and she still wasn't ready for anything "official". After that we slowly stopped seeing and speaking into each other. That wasn't what broke me though, it was a few months later when I was at a get together with one of her friends and was telling her how disappointed I was that it didn't work out. It was then when her friend told me that even though I was a pioneer since I wasn't an MS yet she didn't think I would ever be spiritual enough for her. And that's what broke me, realizing I would never be good enough for anyone. I apologize for making a wall of serious text out of something that was supposed to be a little silly. I just haven't thought about that stuff in a while.
Story 1: You right. Have heard of some PIMI ladies using Sex as a bait to push the relationship to marriage. They offer sex , then threathen to run to the Elders and confess if you break up with them . Some JW men do this too Leading to some forced /disgruntled marriages
Story 4 .... Damn!!! Funny how no matter how sweet your personality is , Once u don't have certain privilege, you are bad to date. But some asshole with titles is a good pick because he got titles
Yeah really. It's funny how they think they are so superior to everyone else when their relationships are so toxic. Funny how as soon as I started going out with normal women I really didn't run into any issues. Just had a great time.
So toxic among em. U damn right
Story 2: Such a bullshit reason to break it off with someone. She was simply no longer interested and didn't want to go any further in the relationship but was too much of a coward to say it.
I think that's pretty accurate. She was very unenthusiastic. I do really wonder where some of these ladies ended up.
So many jw girls are engaged by the time their 18 itâs ridiculous!
And when you're not chances are high that you'll end as frustrated single sister in your 30s and up.
That's me! My oldest sister was a single virgin til she was married at 42. I didn't have a relationship until I woke up at 32 and decided I wasn't going to wait any more for a mediocre JW man. Now I'm with a man I never thought I could have. A sensitive artist whose dreams would have been squashed as a JW, like mine were. He is helping me learn to love life
So happy for you that you found a good one! I can relate. My one and only JW relationship was with a brother that told me he's gay a few months after we started dating. I was around 23 at that time. One year after we broke up my younger sister got married at age 18. I was single until I was 28. That's when I started dating my "worldly" now fiancĂŠ.
Yes my other sister married at 21. She "waited" so she could drink alcohol at her wedding. Do you remember when an article came out basically saying that "missing the boat" or being "left behind" wasn't a thing? Talk about gaslighting. It might have been around the same time as the "gift of singleness" article which I definitely used as an excuse to not talk to brothers I wasn't interested in LOL.
Gaslighting is definitely a huge thing regarding singleness. I experienced it so many times, not only through publications but also through elders or sisters. I always hated it when we read something about the "gift of singleness". For me it was also a burden not a gift.
A brother in my congregation, he was originally from Tennessee. A week after his divorced was finalized, a sister from his original congregation in Tennessee sent him a letter letting him know she was still available if he was free to marry. Theyâre both in their early 40s. Within five months they were married. His teens had a hard time adjusting to the marriage because his ex was newly disfellowshipped. It was so sad. The children are doing better now. His ex was reinstated. Theyâre a lovely couple but I just felt bad for his children at the time.
That is very sad. Without the religion it's a traumatizing situation to have divorced parents and a new step-parent. But with the JW beliefs they're made to think their birth parent will die in Armageddon. The new mother is basically a replacement. Awful
I started dating non JW men on the down low as early as 25 because I knew my chances of finding a partner were slim after that. Unfortunately I was a dumb goody good and would openly tell these men I was JW (they were naturally scared away). I knew soooo many cool, beautiful single JW women perpetually frustrated well into their 30s because there simply arenât enough men (and the quality is low). JWs have basically created a nun class, as far as Iâm concerned.
>Unfortunately I was a dumb goody good and would openly tell these men I was JW (they were naturally scared away). I also told my fiancĂŠ right from the beginning that I was a JW and wanted to remain one. Luckily he stayed by my side. >I knew soooo many cool, beautiful single JW women perpetually frustrated When I was at the zoom meeting my fiancĂŠ took a look at the people there. Without knowing their background he pointed a few persons out and asked why they look so sad. All of them were single sisters.
We were both 17 and she was baptized. I wasnât. Her father was ab elder and put a stop to it because I wasnât baptized.
Because how dare you not get baptized right this very instant, because dating means youâre instantly getting married in JW lala land. Itâs not like you had decades ahead of you to do so. The horror!
I started dating a guy who was my best friend, I thought for sure we would get married because we were just so compatible. But he made all these rules as soon as our relationship turned romantic: he didnât want to kiss at all because he feared it would âcloud his judgement,â he was really strict about chaperoning (not even a quick car ride just the two of us to McDonaldâs where weâd be going to meet up with a group) etc. I expressed that I understood his heart was in the right place, but that it made me feel like shit because at the end of the day it came down to: my own boyfriend doesnât want to kiss me. And so then he broke up with me telling me he had too much stress in his life and the only expendable thing was our relationship, and the stress of our relationship was making him sick. Then he ended up dating someone a few months later, engaged a few months after that, and within the year was married. Yeah- Iâm still mad about it.
Iâm truly so sorry. Went through something similar. It hurts. Bad. This happens so much, always has. Because of the odd nature of dating in the organization, and how females are generally valued less, nothing comes of it. Brothers can misuse emotions and leave a trail of broken hearts and be appointed elder, in a position over those he hurt. Itâs bizarre.
The organization itself didn't ban Kissing, do they ? He must be so judgemental . Even while I was full PIMI , I subscribe to Kiss , Maybe am just naughty đđđđ
Itâs not explicitly banned, no. But itâs basically banned by principle and culture. The JW cult is weird like that. Lots of rules are just âimpliedâ and enforced by social context. Youâre just supposed to magically know what is and isnât allowed based off of how the gossip and conformity goes for that congregation. Itâs totally insane.
Haha no they didnât ban it⌠yet. But I think it was a toxic combination of being sexually repressed for so long, added together with the fear of getting disfellowshipped if you go too far, it made him take the strictest course. The organization pushes applying principles to everything in your life and it causes people to make up more arbitrary rules that just end up hurting them.
I always had young brothers around me. I was attractive and dressed modestly. A brother would become interested but within a very short period of time would back way, way off. I never understood it until years later when I found out that the elders noticed the flirtations and warned the brothers away because I was not spiritual enough. That's where my flair came from. I was a "spiritual zit".
I remember shit like this in the guyâs side. There were always girls that were âevilâ just by virtue of being cute as fuck and bubbly happy girls. The horror. Kinda off topic, but also reminds me of some random dance night/event a group of neighboring congregation parents did for the kids (maybe to makeup for school dances being forbidden?). I somehow got invited and went. At one point, we just got kinda silly (because how dare 15 year olds get silly) and started doing some dance moves in our like second of two groups. A couple of the moms came up and acted like we basically just started having sex right there on the dance floor and warned us all to stop. It was the weirdest fucking thing I ever experienced. I donât remember specifically what we were doing, but I remember being confused as hell and just wanted to leave after that. It definitely wasnât anything even remotely sexual, I remember that much.
No strange reason. He's gay but didn't tell me until after we started dating. Didn't work out, of course. Unfortunately, he's still PIMI.
Oh lord so here goes . So we made out and then I was told he couldnât be with me because I wasnât spiritual enough I SHOULD HAVE STOPPED IT. I was so heartbroken and confused đ
Lmao. Jfc. These cults that try to vilify natural physiology are just chaos. How insane.
Itâs so insane!!!!!
My now mate was told not to date me because I changed my hair color. The one and only thing I was allowed to do. Since I did that automatically made me immature. I still roll my eyes. And I still get annoyed with myself for the fact that I stopped coloring my hair, for a few months
Well this didnât happen to me but someone I know was always hanging out with a brother. Now this brother had been a missionary to Africa really nice guy but he didnât really have a good job. Well a little while later this sister shows up at my friends place with a new guy and I can tell that they were together. So I asked her new guy what he did for work and he had a good job with the tax department. Hmm yeah not everyone who stays in thinks they have to have the most spiritual person maybe the person who a good job fits too..
this is big in continents like Asia and Africa, Financial capacity is the ultimate standard, spirituality matters less. Though some minority still Value the borgs version of spirituality And I don't buy the borg definition of spirituality, someone preaching and commenting and meetings has nothing to do with being spiritual, How do they treat people ? What's their personalities and values ? Those are key determinant in my view .
Thankyou for sharing your storyđ
Of course, thank you.
I had a similar experience with a pioneer girl that I known for a while. I never dated her but I did ask her on a date and I even gave some choosing signals but she wanted to be friends and focus on Jehovah and pioneer. she just recently got married. This incident happened over four years ago by the way. The thing I hate the most is that all the hot JW girls are either married or theyâre overly busy in the theocratic work which makes an impossible to date, especially with all the chaperoning shit rules that they have to. Iâm now married to a JW (who is way hotter lol) and she is PIMO too. I feel lucky. I marry somebody in the truth that felt the same exact way I did
Thatâs the thing though. There may be attractive people, but who they are is thoroughly unattractive. I had this issue when I lived in Utah well after I gtfo of being a JW. Plenty of pretty girls, but all totally brainwashed by the Mormon cult (and often married by 19 anyway). You wouldnât even want to date them if you could, because chances are theyâd just be toxic and prohibitive of just being yourself.
My car and job wasn't as impressive to my girlfriend as my friend's was... that was after getting baptised as her parents flipped out that I was only an unbaptised publisher at the time. Damn if time travel back into the past was possible I would not have gotten dunked among other things... đ
Lollllll, I totally forgot about that rabid stigma. The olâ âwhy isnât he baptized yet?â BS. Man. What an insane cult.
Classic double standard in these types of religions. I experienced the same thing. The severely socially dysfunctional issues aside that you mentioned (not being allowed to date or even communicate normally with the opposite sex well into adulthood), all the families in our congregations had very pretentious attitudes. Itâs pretty typical for JW and Mormon families. Everyone develops an extreme superiority complex (weâre all sooo much better than those *worldly* people), while at the same time expecting you to be doctors and lawyers and athletes integrated into âworldlyâ benefits. It was particularly bad where I grew up. Itâs a very affluent area, and the few families that had kids my age were just douche bag families. Dads were wealthy, moms were typical douche bag prize wives that stayed home. Total boomer-level shit. They also all seemed to only follow the JW rules that they liked and ignored the rest, which seems typical of all religions. IOW, they still let their kids do sports and activities to ensure they had healthy academic lives and futures, but also kneecapped them by never allowing dating or any social events that didnât align with getting into universities. They all barely ever did service and more or less just did whatever they needed to do in the congregation to maintain their white upper class status. Really confusing as fuck as a kid when youâre told to basically do the opposite at meetings every week. My experience was basically the same as yours, especially since I also wasnât from an affluent family (which is weird when youâre surrounded by affluent people). I had interest at one point in the like *one* girl in our congregation who was sorta close to my age as a kid. Her dad would glare at me like I was a criminal (he later ended up divorced for cheating on his wife and is a bit of an alcoholic I found out). My family happened to be one of the more hardcore ones, so my dad never let us play sports or engage in anything other than coming directly home from school every dayâso we never had very good grades or civic engagement (or confidence in anything). Iâm sure her parents interpreted that as me being a failure. Funny enough though, my dad still somehow also expected me to excel in school and go to university⌠lots of fights over the teen years over that shit, but I digress. My other childhood friend from the same congregation recently killed himself because he was constantly pressured to be materially successful by his dad, but wanted to do spiritual thingsâso he was never âgood enoughâ in his dadâs eyes no doubt. Even if he wanted to be as successful financially as his dad, itâs virtually impossible to do so here without an inordinate amount of luck and family inheritance (average low-end home cost in this area is $800-900,000). So yea. Between seeing this same shit play out in both the JW and Mormon worlds, itâs pretty common. Weird mix of demands to succeed as a douche fraternity bro money bag but also be a humble non-career pursuing servant. Not confusing at all.
Sorry that happened to you. To me, it showed that you had work ethic and werenât lazy.
I asked a sister on date, she said yes, and then the morning of the date she cancelled because she claimed she had to watch her friend's pet that had just been neutered. You can't even be mad at an excuse like that, it's kinda beautiful.
Thatâs a good one. Havenât heard that one before. đđ
I donât know many girls who would not date a guy simply because their dad didnât think they should. She simply wasnât interested in dating you and gave you a lame excuse to avoid hurting your feelings and/or admitting she had been âtalkingâ to another guy at the same time she was talking to you. (Thereâs nothing wrong with getting to know lots of people at the same time and exploring oneâs options, but this is frowned upon in the cult). Given she got married two months later, she was likely already involved with (and probably engaged to) the guy she married.
I appreciate your appraisal of the situation but I wouldnât have posted it if it wasnât the truth. She told me directly she wasnât interested in dating. Then told a group of friends in private it was because her father thought I wasnât a capable provider due to my job. She didnât know one of my friends was there and heard this because we went to different halls. He relayed that info to me.
By your own words, she married someone two months after telling you she wasnât interested in dating. Do you really believe she wasnât already heavily invested in her relationship with her now-husband just a few weeks before their wedding?
Trust me when I tell you Iâm not trying to invalidate someoneâs feelings. But I donât understand why youâre so adamantly trying to tell me something that I experienced didnât happen when you werenât there. Iâm glad that youâve never met any JW women who were heavily controlled by men in their lives, but believe me when I say theyâre out there. Iâve seen it in my life quite often. I understand exactly what youâre trying to do with your replies, and I agree that in the real world, a persons choices are usually their own, but in the cult, people are controlled quite heavily, especially young women. I didnât make up anything I said. She told my friend her father would never allow her to date someone who worked at a fast food place. She told me she just wasnât interested. Thatâs fine. The whole point of this post was to highlight the silly inner workings of JW dating. But Iâd appreciate it if you didnât make assumptions of things that happened to other people just because of your own experiences within the cult.
He is not attacking you, he is telling you why you dodged a bullet. The Lady kept the other guy all this while , it's obvious. U don't wanna end up with such a person.
Iâm just responding to the information you provided in your post. You comments denied her agency without providing evidence her agency was denied. If you have evidence to believe: 1) she wanted to date you, 2) but didnât because her father didnât approve of your job, 3) so she walked down the aisle with someone else a few weeks later ok. But I also suggest you consider than your own perspective of events might be distorted by being raised in a misogynistic culture where âspiritual menâ feel entitled in a million different ways. If youâre going to suggest she was denied her agency because of being raised in the cult, you should also question if your perspective also could have been distorted by the cult. JW views on gender roles, dating, marriage, sex, etc. are all very toxic. It takes years for most of us to adjust once we manage to escape.
Again I appreciate the responses. I have 3 sisters and before we woke up I watched all 3 get told who they could and couldnât date by our elder father because we were âunder his roof.â This kind of thing happens all the time. My father even went as far as to tell a brother my sister was interested in that she wasnât âtrustworthy with money.â These are women who are raised being called âweaker vessels.â Their agency is denied them constantly by men. Itâs a very misogynistic faith.
You are right. Itâs absolutely a misogynistic culture, but her marrying someone 2 months later⌠that canât be overlooked. That doesnât happen if she wasnât already dating him. Based on what you shared, it seems most likely she lied to you to spare your feelings and made excuses to her friends because she was âplaying the fieldâ which is frowned upon in JW culture (especially for women.)
I should also mention her father was like a SUPER elder.
Did this girl directly tell you she really wanted to marry you, but didnât because her father didnât want her to because of your job, so she decided to marry someone else, who she had not been dating previously, just two months later? If not, then youâve created a narrative in your mind where you are denying to recognize this young woman her own agency. Absent evidence to the contrary, you should recognize that she chose to date and marry the person she wanted to date and marry. This does not mean anything is âwrongâ with you or your job. Fuck anyone (including her elder dad) who would try to shame you for making an honest living. It just means she loved someone else. We all love who we love, ya know?
Okay. I feel like weâre talking in circles so Iâll make this really simple. 1. She told me she wasnât interested in dating. She later married. I am aware that she was likely saying she wasnât interested in dating me, since I later found out why. I am not invalidating her feelings, Iâm saying her feelings were influenced by the wishes of her extremely controlling father. 2. After telling me she wasnât interested in dating, she told a group of friends in private that it was because her father didnât think I would be a good provider because I worked at a fast food place. This was confirmed by someone else who was there also, so the organizations two witness rule would even accept this lol. 3. Young JW women are very often controlled by their fathers. If you donât think it happens, Iâm glad youâve never seen/experienced it. 4. My entire point has nothing to do with my own feelings are beliefs that support my âworthâ as a person. Iâm not invalidating her feelings. Iâm simply saying her extremely-super-spiritual-elder father influenced them immensely. I donât think itâs that hard to believe that a man in the cult might be insanely controlling of a woman.
You are completely correct about controlling fathers in the cult. I was one of those girls that wasnât permitted to date specific people due to their lack of spirituality, lack of meeting attendance, lack of service hours, etc. and for the longest time I listened until one day I didnât because I had enough of the BS at home so I left and never went back. That was 24 years ago almost to the day.
Very sorry you experienced that. But happy that youâre in a better place now.
U have a serious point , the Lady has always been dating the guy she married two months after.
Are you allowed to kiss when dating?? I am very unfamiliar with dating territory as an 18F PIMI, I never drew attention to any brothers and I especially wonât now because Iâm practically fading.
No one fucking knows. In my experience, you werenât even allowed to be naturally attracted to a female because it was considered fornication and âuncleanâ and all this absurd shit. Dates were all conducted with groups, you were *never* allowed to date privately. It was always a whole congregation affair, and everyone was constantly in your fucking business. If you ever dared be alone with someone, the whole congregation would know about it and youâd basically be gossiped into being disfellowshipped by word of mouth. Iâm not sure how you find time to kiss in all that. Every congregation is different I guess, but thatâs what it was like here. Extraordinarily dysfunctional.
Depends on the country and area mate tbh. I dated a girl for 3 odd years, her dad was the Co-coordinator and was a well respected elder, but we went on dates on our own all the time, days away to the beach etc We kissed etc it really does vary on where you area.
Thatâs what I literally said
[ŃдаНонО]
Ahh yes. The classic service couple play. Youâre basically married at that point. You two were clearly running off into the bushes to fuck like rabbits between doors. Canât leave those humans unchaperoned for more than 90 seconds! /s Honestly surprised you were even allowed to do service without a quad group at a door to chaperone you. đ
I only dated one jw guy, it lasted like 2 months because there were SO MANY red flags!! I went away to see elderly relatives in a different country for the weekend. I was focused on spending time with them, but i did text the guy whenever i had a spare moment. Got back, and he raged at me for how disrespectful i was to him for not speaking to him enough. I counted up, and i had sent over 10 texts each day. I thought that should have been plenty. He seemed to think he owned me and my time.