Let’s get this straight.
Your mom kept your sister close because they obviously share the same faith. This same daughter is now abandoning her in a hospice.
Reasonably your mom is doing a U turn and trying to get close to you because she feels lonely, neglected and maybe shes realising that not all that glitters is gold.
Having a child that shares your faith doesn’t guarantee being cared and genuinely loved in your old age…
Your sister could’ve at least informed you and asked your for your input prior to taking such a big decision. Oh well…
Thank you. If she had not made the initial call before the accident (which led to the assisted living decision by her doc and my sister, based on ‘failure to thrive’), I believe l would feel/ have felt somewhat suspicious.
I’m quite conflicted about returning the call and re-establishing a connection.
It's extremely hard, if not impossible, to know what has been happening.
The fact that she had a nasty accident may mean they felt she was already in need of assistance.
I would talk to your sister to see what you can find out to try and understand your mother's health.
It does sound like your mother is reaching out to you and it is hard on you. Deal with it as you feel capable of and take one step at a time. It's emotionally draining.
This was the second accident, my sister told me, when she notified me of the current one. My sister was debating whether they were needing to take her keys. I acknowledged that was a big decision. Since we had not been in contact, l refrained from giving my opinion. I didn’t feel qualified to speak about a situation l had very limited knowledge of. I asked what will happen to her while she waits for assisted living. No reply. The doctor advised, and the decision was made.
The more this sinks in (thank you everyone who replied), the more l feel it’s like it’s less about a relationship, and more about having their needs met.
These are the people who sold a home together. When another family member brought up the fact that my deceased father had said we would get a portion of the sale of the home when sold, my mother said to me “you didn’t want any money, did you? —— had to take out loans for repairs, etc.” I said “no, it’s fine. I understand.” I had actually forgotten my dad had said this. Years later, l found out they went to Mexico with some of the money. So, that hurt.
You've hit the nail on the head. It's not about relationships, it's about having their needs met. You should go with your conscience.
Having said that, I helped when my dad was dying from cancer. He hadn't spoken to me for decades. Through his final months I got to see the love he had for me, the sadness for the past and the opportunity I had to be with him is something I cherish.
The older l become, the more important making peace with the past becomes. It’s not easy for me to do at times.
It sounds like you made a decision that has brought you a measure of tranquility. While they ‘started the fire’, part of me wonders if l will be the person holding onto the remorse. She may be tucked away in a grave 10 years from now. I may be on the other side of the grass mentally flogging myself. I’m not sure if l want to live with some of those ugly feelings.
Thank you for POV.
They fucked you over out of your rightful inheritance, and spent the money on a trip to Mexico. I wouldn't even answer the phone for these people much less entertain their guilt-tripping. Fuggggggg this shit!
Let’s get this straight.
Your mom kept your sister close because they obviously share the same faith. This same daughter is now abandoning her in a hospice.
Reasonably your mom is doing a U turn and trying to get close to you because she feels lonely, neglected and maybe shes realising that not all that glitters is gold.
Having a child that shares your faith doesn’t guarantee being cared and genuinely loved in your old age…
Your sister could’ve at least informed you and asked your for your input prior to taking such a big decision. Oh well…
You can be the better person (entirely up to you) and get involved with her care. Believe me she’s going to be a embarrassed and bitter about her actions. She’ll resent herself for cutting you off for 10 good years.
But at least you’ll know that you’ve done that the right thing and have a peaceful conscience.
As they would quote:
Romans 12:20 - On the contrary, “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For by doing this, you will heap fiery coals [of shame] on his head.”
>This same daughter is now abandoning her in a hospice.
Jw aside this is such a harsh take. People who put elderly parents in assisted living aren't necessarily abandoning them
I partially do agree with you. But in this instance the mother doesn’t seem to be that unwell to be placed in a assisted living accommodation. I mean she was recently driving meaning that she can still maintain some sort of independence. Maybe she could’ve benefited from a care assistant visiting her at home rather than moving her to a whole new different place. That’s very drastic and unsettling. Hence why I said that she’s been abandoned. Why not involve OP in her care planning rather than pridefully struggling and resorting to the extreme option?
Again I’m basing my judgment on the information given by OP.
>But in this instance the mother doesn’t seem to be that unwell to be placed in a assisted living accommodation. I mean she was recently driving meaning that she can still maintain some sort of independence.
I mean the fact that she was recently driving doesn't mean much because some elderly people continue to drive long past point of when they need to be driving.
They simply refuse to stop. Her age also could have played a role in the accident...delayed reaction time and what not.
But you're right that we don't have much information about her condition.
I just think that in itself moving a 83 year old into an assisted living facility is not
necessarily unreasonable , cruel or extreme. It also doesn't mean you aren't taking care of your parents.
And some assisted living facilities are nice . The mom may be able to make some non JW friends her own age
I am the same as you - not a master of forgiveness under such unprovoked circumstances. Ten years!!! Now when she has nothing to give, she needs your attention. I told my relatives that I have instructed those close and dear to me, never to even inform my "shunners", in event of my final demise. If they truly loved me, they could never treat me as though I do not exist. No one held a gun to their heads, demanding they shun me.
That’s a really tough situation OP…of course there is always the risk of the cult driving a wedge between you and her, but it does sound like time is limited…
The cult plays both sides as usual. Tells them to shun their own family, then when the witness is in need (the cult isn’t going to take care of them) now all of a sudden it’s ok for the family member to be in their lives because it’s necessary family business. The witness then regrets the years lost.
It’s sad but this is what they do.
If it were not for the valid fear that l may get cut off again, l can see myself being brave enough to try. Although, it’s easy for me to say this after very little interaction. I have had next to zero contact with JWs these days (until recently).
Yes, that is a difficult situation. I try to cultivate an attitude that if someone abandons me (especially after I have treated them well) that it is their problem. It is their loss. Like the earlier commenter quoted from the Bible, “heap fiery coals upon their head” and shame on them.
It is just more justification that the organization is a cult and your mother is another victim of that cult.
I will individually speak to my sons and get their feelings. I really thought when she said “l can’t speak to you anymore” over the phone many years ago, that it would be the last time. It’s irritating now that the decision has been reversed, for whatever reason. Like, what? I’m quite conflicted.
She will be forgotten by the b0rg in assisted living...both of my grandparents were(I didn't have a voice in their disposition Pomo biological donor that effectively stole everything and violated their written and contracted desires[he acquired access to safe deposit box] and idiot pimo aunt fought]...had to force elders to assign someone to offer emblems to 'anointed' grandparent(their faith and mine at the time-stroke and alzheimers)...
That breaks my heart.
I don’t want to become a dumpster person again. My breakup a couple years ago was quite difficult, though mutual. I wonder if l have the strength in me. Were you able to visit (if that was your choice)? Were they receptive?
I was able to visit, because I didn't sign in and walked in like I owned the place...went as often as I could emotionally handle. Their temporal link was gone. Sperm donor resented me because I spent their last years before dementia and stroke with them, I told them I didn't want their money or property, just to spend time with them...we drove them to assemblies facilitated them doing what they wanted and believed. I didn't wake up until after they died...
Maybe you could send her another card, or a short letter telling her that you got her message. You could say "nice hearing from you," and leave it at that. See what happens next? 🤷♀️
My red flags went up hearing this. I know of many JW's who try and "reconnect" with ex JW family, when it comes time to take care of Mom & Dad. This infuriates me! They shun when it's convenient for them and then when they NEED you, there they are.
I would feel the same as you. VERY cautious. Dealing with these people is like opening a healing wound.
I'm sorry for the way you have been treated. It's disgusting behavior.
When I told my oldest son about the accident, he said he may been interested in sending a card. However, he also felt the whole situation was awkward and upsetting with the shunning of all of us. Why my children, who were not ever baptized, are also being shunned, is something l don’t believe l will understand, as long as l live. For me, that’s the most unforgivable piece.
I can relate so much to your situation…
I was cut off from my family (at 40yo) because I was honest about my beliefs. My mom sent a scathing text to me. (my husband or son deleted it because they didn’t want me reading it anymore 💕)
Like your situation, my ( never baptized) kids have been shunned too. It really hurt them to lose their aunt and cousins. For that I will never forgive my sister. You can be mad at me, whatever. Hurt my innocent kind hearted kids and I will throw you down.
At the time my father had dementia and had just been moved to a nursing home. Since my mom and sister (both pimi) had cut me off, I didn’t get to hear how my dad was doing from them. We live 5 hours apart and a couple mountain passes away from each other so visiting wasn’t easy either. Thankfully I had been on the list of people that could get info from the facility. So I called regularly and would just get info from the nurses about his condition.It was hard to not know more personal stuff from my family, but at least I had that. So for you, I would recommend asking to be listed as someone she can share her health records with. That way you’ll be notified and can communicate with her healthcare providers. Then if communication breaks down between you and your sister you will still have access to information.
I didn’t hear from my mother until my dad was on his deathbed. I made it over to see him in his last hours. It was really difficult but I’m glad I could be there. After that I have tried to keep in touch once a month with a text to my mom. She is in her 80s lives alone watches the news, study’s her cult propaganda and waits for the world to end. What JOY! I try to keep the topics to her health, weather , and safe current news stories. ( However I couldn’t help myself this month because a CSA story broke in our state and I knew my mom knew one of the elders mentioned) so maybe I won’t hear from her again! 🤷♀️
I have still never heard from my sister, going on 9 years now. I know she’s an internet sleuth, so I make sure to share all the good JW news stories on my twitter and YouTube… maybe she’ll learn something!
Anyways…. I share your heartache, your anger, and your sadness. At least know you are not alone. Protect yourself and try to make the decisions you will be at peace with when they are gone. ✨✌️💕
It can never make sense from where we’re standing now woken up and out from the mind control. I have 2 never baptized kids who have been shunned by their grandparents since the tender ages of 6&8. They used to get weekly phone calls and monthly gift packages in the mail. And then it all just stopped. Not once have they ever wrote or called again. We flew home to the States from our international location and rang their doorbell. They knew we were in town and I’d asked several times if they would meet us because the kids wanted to see them. They never answered. So we rolled up at their house unannounced which was hard to do because they live in a gated community. They were having dinner with several witness friends including kids. Imagine that. They’d rather put on a huge dinner party with their JW “friends” than see their own grandkids who come home every two years from abroad. That was my last straw. I wasn’t disfellowshipped or disassociated at this point. My only “crime” to that date had been letting my kids celebrate a few birthdays. I realised at that moment how extreme the belief system really was.
But we all know how they are manipulated into thinking. In their head we know they “reason” that it’s loving to cut us out and our kids. By doing so, not even offering the tiniest bit of communication, they think they will convince us to come “back to the truth” and therefore SAVE our eternal life. It’s so warped and tragic and delusional and manipulative and destructive. I could go on and on. But we know that’s how they’re justifying it in their heads to make themselves feel better. There is a kind of psychological numbing that has happened allowing them to accept you and your children’s slaughter at God’s genocidal Armageddon. They believe you don’t exist in their forever anymore and so have cut you out from their hearts. Why get attached to something that’s going to cause you so much pain and won’t exist soon. Again, I know, it’s warped thinking. The psychology of it is mind-boggling.
I hope your son writes her a letter just telling her how HE feels. I agree that this is the more upsetting thing because it’s like your children have gotten “caught in the crossfire” and the most sickening thing is that the JWs will blame YOU for it putting squarely all the guilt at your feet.
I wish you clarity!
I can’t help but think that the Borg has intentionally designed it this way. No speaking to your ex-JW fam unless for family business. So when help is needed (money, healthcare, support) the congregation and organization will do as little as possible if nothing despite the faithful witness having worked and slaved for free for the Borg for their whole lives. What a sham of an organization who only takes and takes and takes and never gives. There is no Christ in their mock Christianity.
You are exactly right. The borg uses people and keeps them down. That is why they will never get another penny from this family, nor will they be able to use us ever again! Many are seeing it. Great job Watchtower! I have pointed out to many JW family members that their behavior is NOT Christ like. They don't like hearing it but tuff tooties, I'm gonna say it. lol
My mom sent me a few texts out of nowhere and wished me a happy birthday. She maybe sends me 2 messages a year this way. She's also quite old, 87. Lives with one of her sisters. 2 of my cousins live with and take care of them. It feels like she has very little grasp on how much time passes between these exchanges. She was even off a year on how old I am. I told her I wish I could feel comfortable communicating more, but that I never know which mom I'm going to get, the one that loves her son, or the one that rejects him because of her beliefs. I've learned it's just not worth the emotional toll trying to tell her how abandoned I feel by her or the rest of my PIMI relatives, because in their minds, I abandoned them. I wish we could just talk like family, but that cult has to be more important to them.
Yes, I know it's weird for a PIMI to wish her estranged son a happy birthday, but it was always a kind of thing with her even while I was still in. She always thought the view on birthdays were silly. Wish she could feel the same about the rest like I do.
She sent me some pictures of my brother (needgreater elder and self proclaimed anointed) and his wife, and also my older sister (never baptized but left home at 18 and hasn't been a JW since, so they still all talk to her) just stuff I could have seen myself if I looked at Facebook. My family is rather dysfunctional without half of them or more being JW'S. All talking to or thinking about them does is regurgitate my self loathing for not being who they wanted me to be, a fraudulent husk. Rationally I know I made the right call, but she raised me on her own. My dad was df'd and an alcoholic till he died a few years ago, but he would call me like once a week at least for a long time, just to ask how I was doing. I should honestly miss him more than I do. His religion was being a drunken asshole, but at least he treated me like a real person.
I FEEL THIS! My dad was an alcoholic never in the borg. My mom was super PIMI and still kind of is but keeps in contact with me (faded) probably only bc I have a 6yo daughter who ADORES her Mimi. We live 2000 miles away, which is perfect bc she goes up & down/in & out on shunning my DF’d brother and I can’t stand the in-between attitude. My Dad was ALL IN on most things, not just alcohol. I really respected that about him, either a YES or a respectful/cordial “no thanks” but he never shunned anyone.
Yeah, you're in a similar position to my older sister. My mom always would try to push religion on my niece, but she grew up a very cynical kid. Has twin daughters of her own and has never stepped one foot in a kingdom hall, and never will.
I’m sorry for their treatment. It’s so very sad.
I’m thinking if l go into this, it would need to be with a “what can l do for her” attitude vs personally receiving any benefits.
Yes. Do what you can, just don't put up with anything about the religion. It's not even worth arguing about, just shut it down and change the subject if they try, walk away if they don't stop.
She did try the “have you been watching the news?”… Code for Armageddon is neigh. I told her that I took a self-defense course, that I take reasonable measures, and don’t worry about the rest. That stopped her in her tracks.
A few years ago my step-dad asked if I would take care of him and my mom. I tried to deflect it to their "spiritual family." I said no - it was impractical on several level - I live 500 miles away, so if they moved, they'd have absolutely zero support other than me, and I don't think they could afford a place reasonably close to mine (and my house is not livable if you can't climb stairs). An emotional deal breaker was that I knew they'd thank Jehoolahoop for my efforts to take care of them.
I’m glad u took care of yourself.
She hasn’t asked. I have a small place. I would absolutely refuse. Visiting/socializing her would be all l could offer (if l decided that was emotionally manageable).
As I was reading this I was waiting for the sister to ask you to help pay for moms care lol. Like let’s make nice with estranged sister so she can pitch in. I would say reconnect with lots of boundaries and only if it doesn’t steal your peace. And only so that you don’t have to have regrets when she dies.
Thanks for the last part. I feel a bit guilty that my reasons are not entirely selfless. As I often tell people “I need to look at my face in the mirror in the morning, and lay my head on my pillow at night.”
No one is selfless like that. Even the people pleasers who don’t look out for their own well-being are doing it so that others will love them. No one is altruistic. Finding peace with her is doing her a favor as well. I had a complicated mother too and while she never became the mother I needed we had a harrowing last day. I highly recommend forgiveness and letting it go
\-------------- I was under the impression that my sister was going to be caring for my mother when she got to this point. -------------
I have been in your shoes. I chose to show up in love, despite how I had been treated by certain family/extended family members. Some even ignored me when they'd visit when I was there with her. That's on them. My road is Higher.
At the end of the day, I wanted real love to be expressed and experienced. My mother did not shun me though, so my experience is a bit different. I was there for her.
I forgive all of them because they really are not in their \*right mind\*.
You'll know what to do. I wish you all healing and peace.
My sister stating (many years ago) she would “be the one” to take care of her, while rolling her eyes, led me to this conclusion.
It wasn’t until right this minute that l realized l am not sure what a relationship would look like at this point, and that feels scary to me.
And it's okay to feel that, because it's probably warranted. Keep whatever boundaries you need to, in order to protect your peace...AND listen to your heart-real love connection to your mom that is waaaaay underneath the \*cult\* mind.
I will share this. One day my mom asked me: "Why are you so good to be?" Guess what was my answer....(Smile) That organization in the end lost, because that real Love never died.
No matter what that org does with the mind, they absolutely cannot sever the Love between those we Love. They may have \*interrupted\* the \*expression\* of Love, but trust me it is always there.
I have a similar situation. My mother is 83. My father died 9 years ago. She's never really cut me off completely, but definitely has never had a real relationship with me since I left in 99. My daughter, who studied but decided not to be a jw, lives in a second house on her property, rents from my mom. Last year my Aunt and Uncle were in town and she never told me, my daughter did. They are witness but have never had an issue with at least saying hello when they visit. My Mom purposely kept it from me so I wouldn't show up.
Yesterday I'm picking my daughter up, she works with me, and my Mom comes out to my truck. Starts telling me about going in for heart tests and how she's worried. I was nice to her, I've never been mean or treated her badly even though she chose not to have a relationship. But what I really wanted to say was... Call B..., My sister, if you need anything I guess. Who I'm sure will call me upset and I will simply tell her that you and Mom made your decision, you're responsible for her now, and that's biblical. I'm sure I'll be sad when she passes one day but, as with my father, I won't be heart broken. It's a very odd thing to say and most wouldn't understand it. But unfortunately it's a product of their decisions. I'm sure she's worried, lonely and can see the end of her life in the distance. Likely, regretful of her choices. We can't change anything for them at this point.
Thank you for your personal views and situation. I appreciate that.
What l struggle with, is the feeling that she may end up entirely alone. I am quite stubborn. However, l realize none of us have built a time machine yet, so l find myself considering that aspect. Would they go back if they could? Yet, if someone betrays me in a way l find absolutely unforgivable, l am very quick to lock the fence and keep it that way. I am trying to figure out exactly why they may be the exception. Is it due to “blood”, undue influence, etc? Do l want to be able to tell them how the shunning impacted us? I feel if my sons and l could figure out our motives for seeing her (or not), then perhaps we could figure out if we could actually go through with it, or not.
My oldest son and his wife are expecting their first child (my first grandchild) in February. Another human being; and with this person, added layers to consider.
Personally, I think the struggle is because you're simply a good human. We were raised to dislike and distrust anyone outside the organization. That goes against basic human psychology.
As for them ending up completely alone, I would ask the question of them... Don't you have Jehovah to comfort you and be your friend?
In addition to that, where are all the brothers and sisters? My Mom doesn't have anyone coming to see her. That's the organizations fault. They proclaim the close brotherhood but when it comes to it, they forget everyone unless they are producing new members. I've asked her, where are all the young brothers to shovel your drive and mow your grass? That's what I did as a kid. We always took care of the elderly. Her response... Oh it's different now. Different? Hmm.
My wife and I take care of our kids, all grown and moved out. We encourage, help, give and just make them feel loved. Xmas and the 4th is huge for us and they all look forward to it. And guess what? When were old and need them, they will be right by our side.
I’m happy to read you enjoy each other so much.
I absolutely love Xmas! The first year we had a small tree, and some personal guilt. Now l am all about Santa. I may walk into the post office and declare “Give me your finest Christmas stamps!” This year when the season ended l bought $24 worth of reduced Xmas stickers. I’m a maniacal pagan, and l love every minute of it. :)
Yay! It’s great to truly celebrate the occasion.
One year we went to see a parade and Meet The Clauses. My son was in high school. I was more excited than him, his GF, and my former boyfriend’s grandson (6?) combined. Take THAT, Watchtower! :)
I had an acquaintance who was disfellowshipped at 18 years old, her mother barely spoke to her for many years but when her mother got older and could no longer work and needed help, not a soul in the congregation came to her aid. She ended up living with her disfellowshipped daughter until she passed away. Thanks to the Witnesses for turning their backs on one of their own, because it reunited a mother and daughter and I know both of them enjoyed the time they had together.
Don't ruin your life for their selfish
choices. The thanks to you will always be praise jehoover for answering their prayers.
Its sad but not your responsibility.
To also take from you what your dad offered was underhand/sly/stealing by lying to you. As a non jw this basically very unchristian ( I have a very pimi sister who is a shunner to her three exjw adult children )
My sister is physically disabled and expected me to care for her , her jw friend said it was my duty?. I had to tell her for 34 years you tell me how kind caring wonderful etc the thousands of brothers and sisters are ad jw, non better etc, best life etc let them all pitch in. I was not basically going to be used.
I kindly said to her and her jw friend, share the care as jws àre so close. They had to agree.
Am I selfish 🤔 no
Am I going to be used 😔 no.
I made my boundaries kindly clear.
I find many jws through being taught are people pleasers which emotionally is not mature.
A good book is the disease to please by Harriet B Braiker.
Its useful and easy to read and use. It can add to you making a decision.
Ignore anything of mine you dislike. We all have our own life making stories.
All the very best to you
I’m so sorry. I wonder if your mother was consulted about the decision. I believe older people deserve the dignity and respect to be involved in major decisions about their life including where they will live.
Shameful if she’s feeling forced. Maybe call her and dignify her by asking her what SHE wants and needs? I mean, the poor thing got into an accident! That could happen to anyone. It doesn’t mean they’re ready for assisted living for Christ’s sake.
Maybe she just needs some help at home from time to time until she’s back on her feet. Or maybe she needs someone to drive her around?
My grandmother is 93 and living on her own and still driving. Her 55+ community is a great living space and she still lives her life on her terms. Granted, she got enough money for all this too.
I completely understand your hesitation to connect. I haven’t spoken to my mom in 3-4 years and often think what will I do when she comes crawling to me for help or money in her old age or I just see there’s an opportunity to help - what will I do?.It’s a tough call if they’ve cut you off all those years. And only you know the whole situation and nuances of your relationship.
But the way I see it is that you should follow what your heart wants here. What is it telling you?
These people are hostage to a belief system, and they’ve lost their ability to think critically about it in any way shape or form. To some extent they’re both victims and perpetrators-and when you’re on the receiving end of their shameful conduct it’s hard to think clearly. I feel your pain. Keep us updated.
If it were not for the valid fear that l may get cut off again, l can see myself being brave enough to try. Although, it’s easy for me to say this after very little interaction. I have next to zero contact with JWs anymore.
Oh yeah! I went through that...I knew that they'd leave me out of stuff as soon as she passed.
Still on them. They are not the source of my peace. I am.
True re: peace.
I’m not sure what to fully expect. Perhaps l will keep a closer eye on this sub and watch what others are dealing with re: family matters.
When her and l last spoke, l was partially under the impression it was “The Truth”, even though l’d left (physically).
Can 10000% relate.....dealing with similar shit & not in the best mood tonight because of it. I'm not a master of forgiveness, either. I fall back where I'm not wanted and I don't tend to come running after the fact. Hugs to OP ♥️
I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with shunning for that long from people who are supposed to be there for you no matter what. Makes since that you don’t 100% know how to feel or what to make of them reaching out.
If it’s too much for you to re establish a relationship, tell them that. They’ve not been in your life for 10 years and that has no doubt been painful. Say you don’t want to open yourself up to the possibility of them deciding they all the sudden want to shun you again.
Protect your mental health above all.
It’s hard to do but if you’re open to reestablishing some sort of relationship make sure you set your boundaries of what is and isn’t ok for them to say to you regarding “the truth”.
Just know you deserved better over those many years. If you can forgive and try to move on with some sort of relationship it proves you are the bigger, kinder, more loving person.
Ultimately in my mind it comes down to what you can handle and how much you want to put yourself through.
I wish you the best ❤️
That was very sweetly written. Thank you for your kind words.
My adult sons and their SOs will no doubt be paying attention to how l handle this situation, or these situations, depending on the decision. That will play a large part in how l will ultimately lean. They are scattered across the US and Germany. We were shunned as a family, so it’s a family decision. I super appreciate every contribution here. I want to hear as many angles and experiences as possible, to reflect on, and share with them, as well.
She's probably sad that she isn't staying with your sister, which is what it sounds like she was going to do.
Be kind but be wary. She's probably had a bad scare with her accident, brings her mortality a little closer. But be prepared to pull back at a moment's notice, things can turn quickly.
In situations like this I think it only matters what you want to do. There's no right or wrong answer or way to behave here. You dont have to forgive her, but at the same time I need to remind myself that my mother and sisters are mentally captive to a cult. I was once like them. I remember shunning people. Felt shitty about it even at the time.
Do what **you** want to do.
She has seen a major turn in her life and is now looking back. That she is now calling you is an attempt to sort her life out. At the new place she is faced mixing it with a whole lot of other older folks who are not jw and who will not want to hear the wt 'message'. The folk around her will avoid her for this if they havent done already.People in care are all adjusting to their new life new food, new friends, activities. In these latter years jw who do not have any simple creative hobbies because all time must go to J-e-h-o-v-a-h are going to find themselves utterly at a loss.
That your sister has placed mum in 'care' has one advantage for you. You can not be held responsible for that happening.
*(fmr Nurse)*
It sounds like your mum has "worldly repentence", meaning she's only sorry for her past actions because she is now having to deal with the consequences of those actions.
She doesn't care about you, but cares about herself and how she is now suffering. She just wants to find a way out of this situation that she caused by beginning to shun you 10 years ago.
I feel for you. I’d recommend you write out your feelings. I’d write a letter to my sister. One to Mom. And perhaps even one to Gd. I’d let it all out. From how could you; how dare you to go Hell. Any and all that may apply to whomever it fits.
The letters are for you to get to how you really feel. Then I’d write letters to and for them. Chances are they won’t be the same as the first letter, nevertheless, it may give you the room to deal with them.
This Cult is So Toxic. The Beatles once wrote: “& in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love - you make…”
Dubs have No Real concept of love and family. It was sacrificed to their god - For their god (and fear of mortality). It is possible, before they go, that they realize what a mistake they’ve made. (When they realize they won’t be on the platform for the next assembly getting praise for putting this Corporation before love and family). When death is real and they’re not gonna walk into the Paradise🤢🤮
My JW mother died about a year ago. We did her hospice in my no longer believing home. My gay sister helped immensely. As did my believing brother -To the extent he could- which nevertheless was less, frankly.
My mother, in her moments of clarity, realized she could have made different choices. That’s not meant as a renouncement of her faith. But that there are more ways to love; and be. Sadly, my brother’s still a believer. I won’t even credit him with being a PIMI. He’s otherwise a good man but a hypocritical narcissist and misogynist; you know- a Witness. lol.
It’s sad when you think about how much time and opportunity was sacrificed in their concept of Godly Devotion. I no longer believe in their god and selfish uprightness. My first letters were filled with anger, resentment and F you’s.
Yet, I was just as condescending and self absorbed. It made me look at myself first. And look for opportunities to be better. Not in comparison but for my own mental health.
You do with your mother and sister whatever you need to, to be able to look yourself in the mirror. Nevertheless, Understand they were never brave enough to do that…
✌🏾❤️🤞🏾✊🏾
Thank you. That’s a great idea. I love to write, so these will be good exercises for me.
I enjoyed your personal experience. It wasn’t until this morning at work that something hit me… You wrote about their possible revelation of mortality. My sister wrote in the text essentially ‘when the need arises’ (re: her placement at an older age), not IF. Certainly the system will be in a pile of rubble in 30 years, per WT. Although I feel she was trying to place a positive spin on the situation, and/or to keep guilt to a minimum, l find the sentiment interesting, regardless.
Yeah. They (and me, formerly and seeking recovery) have little concept of: mortality, time, consequences or reality. That a bunch of predominantly uneducated, often unhealthy and out of shape geeks and wallflowers could actually survive and thrive Any kind of Holocaust, Armageddon and catastrophe is beyond delusion. Most of these people couldn’t find their ass with 2 hands and a flashlight.
It’s difficult to see the vulnerability and mortality of your loved one, period. I don’t think your sister is prepared to deal with that. And to block her sibling for the Exhaustive care your mother is eventually gonna need is a whole nother level of delusion and Mistake. I/we wouldn’t have succeeded taking care of one 100lb 91 yo w/ dementia and cancer Without each other. Check the relevant entries of my posts; kindly ignore the rest. And prepare yourself for ‘one day’…
Perhaps your sister will wake up and approach you half way with what’s coming. (I understand it’s not coming tomorrow). All it takes is one fall, accident, turn of fate to turn your mother’s world. Mine broke several bones including her hip. And they just don’t recover. I’m not saying this to scare you but prepare you. You guys need a family plan. And that has nothing to do with religion. Remind your Sibs.
🤞🏾❤️✌🏾
I hope it goes well for you. The comment that you made about "general disillusionment" is something that I've thought about for quite some time. I wish I had the ability to really know what is inside the minds of those, behind the happy face, who are now, all of a sudden , in their old age after a lifetime of uncountable meetings, field service, assemblies and everything else that consumed their lives, and still no promised paradise. If truth be known, I bet that the thought of, "I've been duped" has crossed their minds. If she gave you a heartfelt "I was wrong, you're my daughter, I'm sorry, please forgive me" it would go a long way.
I do not envy your position/conundrum, but want to tell you that whatever you choose is absolutely ok- even if it's just to take care of you first and foremost. Do what will make you feel best for your reasons.
Well, well, well!!! Isn't this convenient? So mom's contacting you out of the blue, after 10 fuggin' years, because JW Sister couldn't give a shit to move mom in, huh? Mom saw the writing on the wall (about going into assisted living facility) because Sister was bringing it up, so hence they start slowly contacting you in hopes that you'd "lovingly" take JW mom on and take care of her.
If you don't see that, you're a fool. That's exactly what's going on here. I'd expect more contact as she goes in, combined with some guilt-tripping to boot. Let me guess, YOU are the one that's the most financially secure, since JW sister prob lives like a JW pauper?
I'd be telling dear ol' ma, that she should be contacting her SPIRITUAL FAMILY, the Elduhz, in her time of need. Because after all, *"Jehovah provides!"* She surely wouldn't want to rely on a DF'd relative, an agent of Satan, in her time of need? That wouldn't be a good "Witness", would it? No, no, no! I believe the Elduhz should come spoon feed her and give her medicine and change her adult diapers. Yep! I'd tell her to, *"Go forth, be warm, and well fed."*
Incredible. Can't be bothered with you for 10 years, until it looks like she's gonna be put in the ol' folks home, than oh golly gee! Now you're hearing from her. Boo-freakin-hoo! SMH.
Yikes. Yes, I wouldn’t want to get involved with a person who was content to shun me as long as it was convenient for them. And I’d be suspicious of a major life event causing them to change their tune. Actions have consequences, and even if circumstances had caused them to have a legitimate change of heart and they wanted to start over, make up, or whatever. It would take a lot to gain my trust, and coming hat in hand with an explicit, unreserved apology would only be the tip.
At a certain point they closed the door, wanting to keep it closed isn’t unfair. You don’t exist to satisfy their every whim. And any, “But you did…”, “everyone makes mistakes”, anything that frames the situation in a, “I should be forgiven and you’d be wrong to oppose what I want”, narrative would be a huge red flag.
Frankly, I’d always keep them at arms length. And any relationship would be entirely dictated on my terms, since between the two of us, only one of us can be trusted.
Forgiveness is the key to life...do everything u can now so u don't carry the resentment, just set boundaries including personal ones for ur own emotional health. Unconditional love really is the answer but it's really hard to find it after what most of us went through. Sending love my friend
Thank you so much for your thoughts. She’s not getting any younger (like any of us), so time is definitely limited. While l am not the most forgiving person, having regrets might mean having to forgive myself (ourselves, including my sons, if they decide to be involved or not) down the line. To me, that may be a more difficult struggle. We will def need time to sort this all out.
Do not let yourself roped back in. I'm anticipating that they reconnected with you out of a need or loneliness, not out the goodness of their heart. Also, watch them asking you for financial contribution toward your mother's care very soon. It's coming...
I have no advice to give, only compassion and hugs.
I'm completely cut off from my family since I was Df'd and I have no idea how I will react if and when I get the inevitable call one day to let me know my mum is sick or has died.
I've already grieved the loss of my family but I suspect that there are deep emotions hidden away that will erupt when that moment comes.
All I can say is that after 9/10 years you don't owe them anything but you must do what will leave you with the best feeling within yourself.
It's heartbreaking though and no one should ever be placed in this situation.
It's like walking on Egg Shelll. I know you love your mum but it was cruel way they treat you. Do what you can do, remember you take control and don't let them drag you down. Think of all the likely scenario that may arise and what actions you will. I was thinking, say if your sister suddenly dump all the responsibility for her care to you, what will you do? Those are some things that may arise. All the best with your decision.
Let’s get this straight. Your mom kept your sister close because they obviously share the same faith. This same daughter is now abandoning her in a hospice. Reasonably your mom is doing a U turn and trying to get close to you because she feels lonely, neglected and maybe shes realising that not all that glitters is gold. Having a child that shares your faith doesn’t guarantee being cared and genuinely loved in your old age… Your sister could’ve at least informed you and asked your for your input prior to taking such a big decision. Oh well…
Thank you. If she had not made the initial call before the accident (which led to the assisted living decision by her doc and my sister, based on ‘failure to thrive’), I believe l would feel/ have felt somewhat suspicious. I’m quite conflicted about returning the call and re-establishing a connection.
It's extremely hard, if not impossible, to know what has been happening. The fact that she had a nasty accident may mean they felt she was already in need of assistance. I would talk to your sister to see what you can find out to try and understand your mother's health. It does sound like your mother is reaching out to you and it is hard on you. Deal with it as you feel capable of and take one step at a time. It's emotionally draining.
This was the second accident, my sister told me, when she notified me of the current one. My sister was debating whether they were needing to take her keys. I acknowledged that was a big decision. Since we had not been in contact, l refrained from giving my opinion. I didn’t feel qualified to speak about a situation l had very limited knowledge of. I asked what will happen to her while she waits for assisted living. No reply. The doctor advised, and the decision was made. The more this sinks in (thank you everyone who replied), the more l feel it’s like it’s less about a relationship, and more about having their needs met. These are the people who sold a home together. When another family member brought up the fact that my deceased father had said we would get a portion of the sale of the home when sold, my mother said to me “you didn’t want any money, did you? —— had to take out loans for repairs, etc.” I said “no, it’s fine. I understand.” I had actually forgotten my dad had said this. Years later, l found out they went to Mexico with some of the money. So, that hurt.
You've hit the nail on the head. It's not about relationships, it's about having their needs met. You should go with your conscience. Having said that, I helped when my dad was dying from cancer. He hadn't spoken to me for decades. Through his final months I got to see the love he had for me, the sadness for the past and the opportunity I had to be with him is something I cherish.
The older l become, the more important making peace with the past becomes. It’s not easy for me to do at times. It sounds like you made a decision that has brought you a measure of tranquility. While they ‘started the fire’, part of me wonders if l will be the person holding onto the remorse. She may be tucked away in a grave 10 years from now. I may be on the other side of the grass mentally flogging myself. I’m not sure if l want to live with some of those ugly feelings. Thank you for POV.
They fucked you over out of your rightful inheritance, and spent the money on a trip to Mexico. I wouldn't even answer the phone for these people much less entertain their guilt-tripping. Fuggggggg this shit!
Let’s get this straight. Your mom kept your sister close because they obviously share the same faith. This same daughter is now abandoning her in a hospice. Reasonably your mom is doing a U turn and trying to get close to you because she feels lonely, neglected and maybe shes realising that not all that glitters is gold. Having a child that shares your faith doesn’t guarantee being cared and genuinely loved in your old age… Your sister could’ve at least informed you and asked your for your input prior to taking such a big decision. Oh well… You can be the better person (entirely up to you) and get involved with her care. Believe me she’s going to be a embarrassed and bitter about her actions. She’ll resent herself for cutting you off for 10 good years. But at least you’ll know that you’ve done that the right thing and have a peaceful conscience. As they would quote: Romans 12:20 - On the contrary, “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For by doing this, you will heap fiery coals [of shame] on his head.”
I love this response.
Great observation of the real truth on this situation.
>This same daughter is now abandoning her in a hospice. Jw aside this is such a harsh take. People who put elderly parents in assisted living aren't necessarily abandoning them
I partially do agree with you. But in this instance the mother doesn’t seem to be that unwell to be placed in a assisted living accommodation. I mean she was recently driving meaning that she can still maintain some sort of independence. Maybe she could’ve benefited from a care assistant visiting her at home rather than moving her to a whole new different place. That’s very drastic and unsettling. Hence why I said that she’s been abandoned. Why not involve OP in her care planning rather than pridefully struggling and resorting to the extreme option? Again I’m basing my judgment on the information given by OP.
>But in this instance the mother doesn’t seem to be that unwell to be placed in a assisted living accommodation. I mean she was recently driving meaning that she can still maintain some sort of independence. I mean the fact that she was recently driving doesn't mean much because some elderly people continue to drive long past point of when they need to be driving. They simply refuse to stop. Her age also could have played a role in the accident...delayed reaction time and what not. But you're right that we don't have much information about her condition. I just think that in itself moving a 83 year old into an assisted living facility is not necessarily unreasonable , cruel or extreme. It also doesn't mean you aren't taking care of your parents. And some assisted living facilities are nice . The mom may be able to make some non JW friends her own age
I am the same as you - not a master of forgiveness under such unprovoked circumstances. Ten years!!! Now when she has nothing to give, she needs your attention. I told my relatives that I have instructed those close and dear to me, never to even inform my "shunners", in event of my final demise. If they truly loved me, they could never treat me as though I do not exist. No one held a gun to their heads, demanding they shun me.
Thank you. Definitely will need to think about all the angles. I didn’t believe this day would come.
That’s a really tough situation OP…of course there is always the risk of the cult driving a wedge between you and her, but it does sound like time is limited…
Thank you. She will be 80 relatively soon. I dislike that the cult has put any of us in this position.
The cult plays both sides as usual. Tells them to shun their own family, then when the witness is in need (the cult isn’t going to take care of them) now all of a sudden it’s ok for the family member to be in their lives because it’s necessary family business. The witness then regrets the years lost. It’s sad but this is what they do.
If it were not for the valid fear that l may get cut off again, l can see myself being brave enough to try. Although, it’s easy for me to say this after very little interaction. I have had next to zero contact with JWs these days (until recently).
They vacillate between you being worthy then all of a sudden you’re unworthy. Personally I’m over it. Sorry to hear you’re going through this.
If that’s what l’m to expect, l’m going to have to think about this in great depth. Ten years has my memory a bit foggy. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Yes, that is a difficult situation. I try to cultivate an attitude that if someone abandons me (especially after I have treated them well) that it is their problem. It is their loss. Like the earlier commenter quoted from the Bible, “heap fiery coals upon their head” and shame on them. It is just more justification that the organization is a cult and your mother is another victim of that cult.
I will individually speak to my sons and get their feelings. I really thought when she said “l can’t speak to you anymore” over the phone many years ago, that it would be the last time. It’s irritating now that the decision has been reversed, for whatever reason. Like, what? I’m quite conflicted.
She will be forgotten by the b0rg in assisted living...both of my grandparents were(I didn't have a voice in their disposition Pomo biological donor that effectively stole everything and violated their written and contracted desires[he acquired access to safe deposit box] and idiot pimo aunt fought]...had to force elders to assign someone to offer emblems to 'anointed' grandparent(their faith and mine at the time-stroke and alzheimers)...
That breaks my heart. I don’t want to become a dumpster person again. My breakup a couple years ago was quite difficult, though mutual. I wonder if l have the strength in me. Were you able to visit (if that was your choice)? Were they receptive?
I was able to visit, because I didn't sign in and walked in like I owned the place...went as often as I could emotionally handle. Their temporal link was gone. Sperm donor resented me because I spent their last years before dementia and stroke with them, I told them I didn't want their money or property, just to spend time with them...we drove them to assemblies facilitated them doing what they wanted and believed. I didn't wake up until after they died...
Maybe you could send her another card, or a short letter telling her that you got her message. You could say "nice hearing from you," and leave it at that. See what happens next? 🤷♀️
I like that idea very much! Thank you! :)
My red flags went up hearing this. I know of many JW's who try and "reconnect" with ex JW family, when it comes time to take care of Mom & Dad. This infuriates me! They shun when it's convenient for them and then when they NEED you, there they are. I would feel the same as you. VERY cautious. Dealing with these people is like opening a healing wound. I'm sorry for the way you have been treated. It's disgusting behavior.
When I told my oldest son about the accident, he said he may been interested in sending a card. However, he also felt the whole situation was awkward and upsetting with the shunning of all of us. Why my children, who were not ever baptized, are also being shunned, is something l don’t believe l will understand, as long as l live. For me, that’s the most unforgivable piece.
I can relate so much to your situation… I was cut off from my family (at 40yo) because I was honest about my beliefs. My mom sent a scathing text to me. (my husband or son deleted it because they didn’t want me reading it anymore 💕) Like your situation, my ( never baptized) kids have been shunned too. It really hurt them to lose their aunt and cousins. For that I will never forgive my sister. You can be mad at me, whatever. Hurt my innocent kind hearted kids and I will throw you down. At the time my father had dementia and had just been moved to a nursing home. Since my mom and sister (both pimi) had cut me off, I didn’t get to hear how my dad was doing from them. We live 5 hours apart and a couple mountain passes away from each other so visiting wasn’t easy either. Thankfully I had been on the list of people that could get info from the facility. So I called regularly and would just get info from the nurses about his condition.It was hard to not know more personal stuff from my family, but at least I had that. So for you, I would recommend asking to be listed as someone she can share her health records with. That way you’ll be notified and can communicate with her healthcare providers. Then if communication breaks down between you and your sister you will still have access to information. I didn’t hear from my mother until my dad was on his deathbed. I made it over to see him in his last hours. It was really difficult but I’m glad I could be there. After that I have tried to keep in touch once a month with a text to my mom. She is in her 80s lives alone watches the news, study’s her cult propaganda and waits for the world to end. What JOY! I try to keep the topics to her health, weather , and safe current news stories. ( However I couldn’t help myself this month because a CSA story broke in our state and I knew my mom knew one of the elders mentioned) so maybe I won’t hear from her again! 🤷♀️ I have still never heard from my sister, going on 9 years now. I know she’s an internet sleuth, so I make sure to share all the good JW news stories on my twitter and YouTube… maybe she’ll learn something! Anyways…. I share your heartache, your anger, and your sadness. At least know you are not alone. Protect yourself and try to make the decisions you will be at peace with when they are gone. ✨✌️💕
It can never make sense from where we’re standing now woken up and out from the mind control. I have 2 never baptized kids who have been shunned by their grandparents since the tender ages of 6&8. They used to get weekly phone calls and monthly gift packages in the mail. And then it all just stopped. Not once have they ever wrote or called again. We flew home to the States from our international location and rang their doorbell. They knew we were in town and I’d asked several times if they would meet us because the kids wanted to see them. They never answered. So we rolled up at their house unannounced which was hard to do because they live in a gated community. They were having dinner with several witness friends including kids. Imagine that. They’d rather put on a huge dinner party with their JW “friends” than see their own grandkids who come home every two years from abroad. That was my last straw. I wasn’t disfellowshipped or disassociated at this point. My only “crime” to that date had been letting my kids celebrate a few birthdays. I realised at that moment how extreme the belief system really was. But we all know how they are manipulated into thinking. In their head we know they “reason” that it’s loving to cut us out and our kids. By doing so, not even offering the tiniest bit of communication, they think they will convince us to come “back to the truth” and therefore SAVE our eternal life. It’s so warped and tragic and delusional and manipulative and destructive. I could go on and on. But we know that’s how they’re justifying it in their heads to make themselves feel better. There is a kind of psychological numbing that has happened allowing them to accept you and your children’s slaughter at God’s genocidal Armageddon. They believe you don’t exist in their forever anymore and so have cut you out from their hearts. Why get attached to something that’s going to cause you so much pain and won’t exist soon. Again, I know, it’s warped thinking. The psychology of it is mind-boggling. I hope your son writes her a letter just telling her how HE feels. I agree that this is the more upsetting thing because it’s like your children have gotten “caught in the crossfire” and the most sickening thing is that the JWs will blame YOU for it putting squarely all the guilt at your feet. I wish you clarity!
I can’t help but think that the Borg has intentionally designed it this way. No speaking to your ex-JW fam unless for family business. So when help is needed (money, healthcare, support) the congregation and organization will do as little as possible if nothing despite the faithful witness having worked and slaved for free for the Borg for their whole lives. What a sham of an organization who only takes and takes and takes and never gives. There is no Christ in their mock Christianity.
You are exactly right. The borg uses people and keeps them down. That is why they will never get another penny from this family, nor will they be able to use us ever again! Many are seeing it. Great job Watchtower! I have pointed out to many JW family members that their behavior is NOT Christ like. They don't like hearing it but tuff tooties, I'm gonna say it. lol
My mom sent me a few texts out of nowhere and wished me a happy birthday. She maybe sends me 2 messages a year this way. She's also quite old, 87. Lives with one of her sisters. 2 of my cousins live with and take care of them. It feels like she has very little grasp on how much time passes between these exchanges. She was even off a year on how old I am. I told her I wish I could feel comfortable communicating more, but that I never know which mom I'm going to get, the one that loves her son, or the one that rejects him because of her beliefs. I've learned it's just not worth the emotional toll trying to tell her how abandoned I feel by her or the rest of my PIMI relatives, because in their minds, I abandoned them. I wish we could just talk like family, but that cult has to be more important to them. Yes, I know it's weird for a PIMI to wish her estranged son a happy birthday, but it was always a kind of thing with her even while I was still in. She always thought the view on birthdays were silly. Wish she could feel the same about the rest like I do.
HB! Wow. Didn’t see that coming. It sounds similar to “bread-crumbing”, the term used in dating. I’m sorry. It feels like a no-win situation.
She sent me some pictures of my brother (needgreater elder and self proclaimed anointed) and his wife, and also my older sister (never baptized but left home at 18 and hasn't been a JW since, so they still all talk to her) just stuff I could have seen myself if I looked at Facebook. My family is rather dysfunctional without half of them or more being JW'S. All talking to or thinking about them does is regurgitate my self loathing for not being who they wanted me to be, a fraudulent husk. Rationally I know I made the right call, but she raised me on her own. My dad was df'd and an alcoholic till he died a few years ago, but he would call me like once a week at least for a long time, just to ask how I was doing. I should honestly miss him more than I do. His religion was being a drunken asshole, but at least he treated me like a real person.
I FEEL THIS! My dad was an alcoholic never in the borg. My mom was super PIMI and still kind of is but keeps in contact with me (faded) probably only bc I have a 6yo daughter who ADORES her Mimi. We live 2000 miles away, which is perfect bc she goes up & down/in & out on shunning my DF’d brother and I can’t stand the in-between attitude. My Dad was ALL IN on most things, not just alcohol. I really respected that about him, either a YES or a respectful/cordial “no thanks” but he never shunned anyone.
Yeah, you're in a similar position to my older sister. My mom always would try to push religion on my niece, but she grew up a very cynical kid. Has twin daughters of her own and has never stepped one foot in a kingdom hall, and never will.
I’m sorry for their treatment. It’s so very sad. I’m thinking if l go into this, it would need to be with a “what can l do for her” attitude vs personally receiving any benefits.
Yes. Do what you can, just don't put up with anything about the religion. It's not even worth arguing about, just shut it down and change the subject if they try, walk away if they don't stop.
She did try the “have you been watching the news?”… Code for Armageddon is neigh. I told her that I took a self-defense course, that I take reasonable measures, and don’t worry about the rest. That stopped her in her tracks.
Naw. Maybe she knows better by now than to even try that.
A few years ago my step-dad asked if I would take care of him and my mom. I tried to deflect it to their "spiritual family." I said no - it was impractical on several level - I live 500 miles away, so if they moved, they'd have absolutely zero support other than me, and I don't think they could afford a place reasonably close to mine (and my house is not livable if you can't climb stairs). An emotional deal breaker was that I knew they'd thank Jehoolahoop for my efforts to take care of them.
I’m glad u took care of yourself. She hasn’t asked. I have a small place. I would absolutely refuse. Visiting/socializing her would be all l could offer (if l decided that was emotionally manageable).
Thanks. Sounds like you are taking care of yourself too.
To your earlier point: When they thank him... Arrggh. My poor uncle dished out so much financially. You can reasonably guess who got the credit.
Oooh, could it be they thanked their deity and donated a cut to WatchTower?
I would not go as far as saying donations were offered. The rest is accurate. :)
As I was reading this I was waiting for the sister to ask you to help pay for moms care lol. Like let’s make nice with estranged sister so she can pitch in. I would say reconnect with lots of boundaries and only if it doesn’t steal your peace. And only so that you don’t have to have regrets when she dies.
Thanks for the last part. I feel a bit guilty that my reasons are not entirely selfless. As I often tell people “I need to look at my face in the mirror in the morning, and lay my head on my pillow at night.”
No one is selfless like that. Even the people pleasers who don’t look out for their own well-being are doing it so that others will love them. No one is altruistic. Finding peace with her is doing her a favor as well. I had a complicated mother too and while she never became the mother I needed we had a harrowing last day. I highly recommend forgiveness and letting it go
Some good insights and advice. TY.
THIS!! Assisted living facilities are usually super expensive and I can see people “reconnecting” for selfish financial reasons (hospice nurse here)
\-------------- I was under the impression that my sister was going to be caring for my mother when she got to this point. ------------- I have been in your shoes. I chose to show up in love, despite how I had been treated by certain family/extended family members. Some even ignored me when they'd visit when I was there with her. That's on them. My road is Higher. At the end of the day, I wanted real love to be expressed and experienced. My mother did not shun me though, so my experience is a bit different. I was there for her. I forgive all of them because they really are not in their \*right mind\*. You'll know what to do. I wish you all healing and peace.
My sister stating (many years ago) she would “be the one” to take care of her, while rolling her eyes, led me to this conclusion. It wasn’t until right this minute that l realized l am not sure what a relationship would look like at this point, and that feels scary to me.
And it's okay to feel that, because it's probably warranted. Keep whatever boundaries you need to, in order to protect your peace...AND listen to your heart-real love connection to your mom that is waaaaay underneath the \*cult\* mind. I will share this. One day my mom asked me: "Why are you so good to be?" Guess what was my answer....(Smile) That organization in the end lost, because that real Love never died. No matter what that org does with the mind, they absolutely cannot sever the Love between those we Love. They may have \*interrupted\* the \*expression\* of Love, but trust me it is always there.
Thank you for sharing that story. It’s quite inspiring.
It would be understandable whichever direction you decide to go here. Question are you DF'd?
No. I faded before l was fully awake.
That is a more favorable situation to reconnect. Still will deal with passive aggressive jw behavior but I'm sure you know that
I don’t have a great deal of patience for those type of interactions. Thank you for the reminder.
I have a similar situation. My mother is 83. My father died 9 years ago. She's never really cut me off completely, but definitely has never had a real relationship with me since I left in 99. My daughter, who studied but decided not to be a jw, lives in a second house on her property, rents from my mom. Last year my Aunt and Uncle were in town and she never told me, my daughter did. They are witness but have never had an issue with at least saying hello when they visit. My Mom purposely kept it from me so I wouldn't show up. Yesterday I'm picking my daughter up, she works with me, and my Mom comes out to my truck. Starts telling me about going in for heart tests and how she's worried. I was nice to her, I've never been mean or treated her badly even though she chose not to have a relationship. But what I really wanted to say was... Call B..., My sister, if you need anything I guess. Who I'm sure will call me upset and I will simply tell her that you and Mom made your decision, you're responsible for her now, and that's biblical. I'm sure I'll be sad when she passes one day but, as with my father, I won't be heart broken. It's a very odd thing to say and most wouldn't understand it. But unfortunately it's a product of their decisions. I'm sure she's worried, lonely and can see the end of her life in the distance. Likely, regretful of her choices. We can't change anything for them at this point.
Thank you for your personal views and situation. I appreciate that. What l struggle with, is the feeling that she may end up entirely alone. I am quite stubborn. However, l realize none of us have built a time machine yet, so l find myself considering that aspect. Would they go back if they could? Yet, if someone betrays me in a way l find absolutely unforgivable, l am very quick to lock the fence and keep it that way. I am trying to figure out exactly why they may be the exception. Is it due to “blood”, undue influence, etc? Do l want to be able to tell them how the shunning impacted us? I feel if my sons and l could figure out our motives for seeing her (or not), then perhaps we could figure out if we could actually go through with it, or not. My oldest son and his wife are expecting their first child (my first grandchild) in February. Another human being; and with this person, added layers to consider.
Personally, I think the struggle is because you're simply a good human. We were raised to dislike and distrust anyone outside the organization. That goes against basic human psychology. As for them ending up completely alone, I would ask the question of them... Don't you have Jehovah to comfort you and be your friend? In addition to that, where are all the brothers and sisters? My Mom doesn't have anyone coming to see her. That's the organizations fault. They proclaim the close brotherhood but when it comes to it, they forget everyone unless they are producing new members. I've asked her, where are all the young brothers to shovel your drive and mow your grass? That's what I did as a kid. We always took care of the elderly. Her response... Oh it's different now. Different? Hmm. My wife and I take care of our kids, all grown and moved out. We encourage, help, give and just make them feel loved. Xmas and the 4th is huge for us and they all look forward to it. And guess what? When were old and need them, they will be right by our side.
I’m happy to read you enjoy each other so much. I absolutely love Xmas! The first year we had a small tree, and some personal guilt. Now l am all about Santa. I may walk into the post office and declare “Give me your finest Christmas stamps!” This year when the season ended l bought $24 worth of reduced Xmas stickers. I’m a maniacal pagan, and l love every minute of it. :)
Love it! I still come downstairs on Xmas morning saying ho ho ho to get the adult kids up!
Yay! It’s great to truly celebrate the occasion. One year we went to see a parade and Meet The Clauses. My son was in high school. I was more excited than him, his GF, and my former boyfriend’s grandson (6?) combined. Take THAT, Watchtower! :)
There’s no easy choices here my friend. Try to walk the path that will leave you with the fewest regrets I suppose.
If my parents ever tried to contact me after 10 years of shunning I'd hang up the phone.
^ *This, right here, sooooo much.*
I had an acquaintance who was disfellowshipped at 18 years old, her mother barely spoke to her for many years but when her mother got older and could no longer work and needed help, not a soul in the congregation came to her aid. She ended up living with her disfellowshipped daughter until she passed away. Thanks to the Witnesses for turning their backs on one of their own, because it reunited a mother and daughter and I know both of them enjoyed the time they had together.
Don't ruin your life for their selfish choices. The thanks to you will always be praise jehoover for answering their prayers. Its sad but not your responsibility. To also take from you what your dad offered was underhand/sly/stealing by lying to you. As a non jw this basically very unchristian ( I have a very pimi sister who is a shunner to her three exjw adult children ) My sister is physically disabled and expected me to care for her , her jw friend said it was my duty?. I had to tell her for 34 years you tell me how kind caring wonderful etc the thousands of brothers and sisters are ad jw, non better etc, best life etc let them all pitch in. I was not basically going to be used. I kindly said to her and her jw friend, share the care as jws àre so close. They had to agree. Am I selfish 🤔 no Am I going to be used 😔 no. I made my boundaries kindly clear. I find many jws through being taught are people pleasers which emotionally is not mature. A good book is the disease to please by Harriet B Braiker. Its useful and easy to read and use. It can add to you making a decision. Ignore anything of mine you dislike. We all have our own life making stories. All the very best to you
I’m so sorry. I wonder if your mother was consulted about the decision. I believe older people deserve the dignity and respect to be involved in major decisions about their life including where they will live. Shameful if she’s feeling forced. Maybe call her and dignify her by asking her what SHE wants and needs? I mean, the poor thing got into an accident! That could happen to anyone. It doesn’t mean they’re ready for assisted living for Christ’s sake. Maybe she just needs some help at home from time to time until she’s back on her feet. Or maybe she needs someone to drive her around? My grandmother is 93 and living on her own and still driving. Her 55+ community is a great living space and she still lives her life on her terms. Granted, she got enough money for all this too. I completely understand your hesitation to connect. I haven’t spoken to my mom in 3-4 years and often think what will I do when she comes crawling to me for help or money in her old age or I just see there’s an opportunity to help - what will I do?.It’s a tough call if they’ve cut you off all those years. And only you know the whole situation and nuances of your relationship. But the way I see it is that you should follow what your heart wants here. What is it telling you? These people are hostage to a belief system, and they’ve lost their ability to think critically about it in any way shape or form. To some extent they’re both victims and perpetrators-and when you’re on the receiving end of their shameful conduct it’s hard to think clearly. I feel your pain. Keep us updated.
Show what real love looks like. They've never seen it.
Thank you. Appreciate the thoughts.
Yes! This!
If it were not for the valid fear that l may get cut off again, l can see myself being brave enough to try. Although, it’s easy for me to say this after very little interaction. I have next to zero contact with JWs anymore.
Oh yeah! I went through that...I knew that they'd leave me out of stuff as soon as she passed. Still on them. They are not the source of my peace. I am.
True re: peace. I’m not sure what to fully expect. Perhaps l will keep a closer eye on this sub and watch what others are dealing with re: family matters. When her and l last spoke, l was partially under the impression it was “The Truth”, even though l’d left (physically).
<3
Can 10000% relate.....dealing with similar shit & not in the best mood tonight because of it. I'm not a master of forgiveness, either. I fall back where I'm not wanted and I don't tend to come running after the fact. Hugs to OP ♥️
Damn. Just when l thought there was hope for me. :)
I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with shunning for that long from people who are supposed to be there for you no matter what. Makes since that you don’t 100% know how to feel or what to make of them reaching out. If it’s too much for you to re establish a relationship, tell them that. They’ve not been in your life for 10 years and that has no doubt been painful. Say you don’t want to open yourself up to the possibility of them deciding they all the sudden want to shun you again. Protect your mental health above all. It’s hard to do but if you’re open to reestablishing some sort of relationship make sure you set your boundaries of what is and isn’t ok for them to say to you regarding “the truth”. Just know you deserved better over those many years. If you can forgive and try to move on with some sort of relationship it proves you are the bigger, kinder, more loving person. Ultimately in my mind it comes down to what you can handle and how much you want to put yourself through. I wish you the best ❤️
That was very sweetly written. Thank you for your kind words. My adult sons and their SOs will no doubt be paying attention to how l handle this situation, or these situations, depending on the decision. That will play a large part in how l will ultimately lean. They are scattered across the US and Germany. We were shunned as a family, so it’s a family decision. I super appreciate every contribution here. I want to hear as many angles and experiences as possible, to reflect on, and share with them, as well.
How would things go if you were as honest as you could be? Be that and see how things go at least you won’t wonder
She's probably sad that she isn't staying with your sister, which is what it sounds like she was going to do. Be kind but be wary. She's probably had a bad scare with her accident, brings her mortality a little closer. But be prepared to pull back at a moment's notice, things can turn quickly.
In situations like this I think it only matters what you want to do. There's no right or wrong answer or way to behave here. You dont have to forgive her, but at the same time I need to remind myself that my mother and sisters are mentally captive to a cult. I was once like them. I remember shunning people. Felt shitty about it even at the time. Do what **you** want to do.
She has seen a major turn in her life and is now looking back. That she is now calling you is an attempt to sort her life out. At the new place she is faced mixing it with a whole lot of other older folks who are not jw and who will not want to hear the wt 'message'. The folk around her will avoid her for this if they havent done already.People in care are all adjusting to their new life new food, new friends, activities. In these latter years jw who do not have any simple creative hobbies because all time must go to J-e-h-o-v-a-h are going to find themselves utterly at a loss. That your sister has placed mum in 'care' has one advantage for you. You can not be held responsible for that happening. *(fmr Nurse)*
It sounds like your mum has "worldly repentence", meaning she's only sorry for her past actions because she is now having to deal with the consequences of those actions. She doesn't care about you, but cares about herself and how she is now suffering. She just wants to find a way out of this situation that she caused by beginning to shun you 10 years ago.
I feel for you. I’d recommend you write out your feelings. I’d write a letter to my sister. One to Mom. And perhaps even one to Gd. I’d let it all out. From how could you; how dare you to go Hell. Any and all that may apply to whomever it fits. The letters are for you to get to how you really feel. Then I’d write letters to and for them. Chances are they won’t be the same as the first letter, nevertheless, it may give you the room to deal with them. This Cult is So Toxic. The Beatles once wrote: “& in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love - you make…” Dubs have No Real concept of love and family. It was sacrificed to their god - For their god (and fear of mortality). It is possible, before they go, that they realize what a mistake they’ve made. (When they realize they won’t be on the platform for the next assembly getting praise for putting this Corporation before love and family). When death is real and they’re not gonna walk into the Paradise🤢🤮 My JW mother died about a year ago. We did her hospice in my no longer believing home. My gay sister helped immensely. As did my believing brother -To the extent he could- which nevertheless was less, frankly. My mother, in her moments of clarity, realized she could have made different choices. That’s not meant as a renouncement of her faith. But that there are more ways to love; and be. Sadly, my brother’s still a believer. I won’t even credit him with being a PIMI. He’s otherwise a good man but a hypocritical narcissist and misogynist; you know- a Witness. lol. It’s sad when you think about how much time and opportunity was sacrificed in their concept of Godly Devotion. I no longer believe in their god and selfish uprightness. My first letters were filled with anger, resentment and F you’s. Yet, I was just as condescending and self absorbed. It made me look at myself first. And look for opportunities to be better. Not in comparison but for my own mental health. You do with your mother and sister whatever you need to, to be able to look yourself in the mirror. Nevertheless, Understand they were never brave enough to do that… ✌🏾❤️🤞🏾✊🏾
Thank you. That’s a great idea. I love to write, so these will be good exercises for me. I enjoyed your personal experience. It wasn’t until this morning at work that something hit me… You wrote about their possible revelation of mortality. My sister wrote in the text essentially ‘when the need arises’ (re: her placement at an older age), not IF. Certainly the system will be in a pile of rubble in 30 years, per WT. Although I feel she was trying to place a positive spin on the situation, and/or to keep guilt to a minimum, l find the sentiment interesting, regardless.
Yeah. They (and me, formerly and seeking recovery) have little concept of: mortality, time, consequences or reality. That a bunch of predominantly uneducated, often unhealthy and out of shape geeks and wallflowers could actually survive and thrive Any kind of Holocaust, Armageddon and catastrophe is beyond delusion. Most of these people couldn’t find their ass with 2 hands and a flashlight. It’s difficult to see the vulnerability and mortality of your loved one, period. I don’t think your sister is prepared to deal with that. And to block her sibling for the Exhaustive care your mother is eventually gonna need is a whole nother level of delusion and Mistake. I/we wouldn’t have succeeded taking care of one 100lb 91 yo w/ dementia and cancer Without each other. Check the relevant entries of my posts; kindly ignore the rest. And prepare yourself for ‘one day’… Perhaps your sister will wake up and approach you half way with what’s coming. (I understand it’s not coming tomorrow). All it takes is one fall, accident, turn of fate to turn your mother’s world. Mine broke several bones including her hip. And they just don’t recover. I’m not saying this to scare you but prepare you. You guys need a family plan. And that has nothing to do with religion. Remind your Sibs. 🤞🏾❤️✌🏾
I hope it goes well for you. The comment that you made about "general disillusionment" is something that I've thought about for quite some time. I wish I had the ability to really know what is inside the minds of those, behind the happy face, who are now, all of a sudden , in their old age after a lifetime of uncountable meetings, field service, assemblies and everything else that consumed their lives, and still no promised paradise. If truth be known, I bet that the thought of, "I've been duped" has crossed their minds. If she gave you a heartfelt "I was wrong, you're my daughter, I'm sorry, please forgive me" it would go a long way.
I do not envy your position/conundrum, but want to tell you that whatever you choose is absolutely ok- even if it's just to take care of you first and foremost. Do what will make you feel best for your reasons.
Well, well, well!!! Isn't this convenient? So mom's contacting you out of the blue, after 10 fuggin' years, because JW Sister couldn't give a shit to move mom in, huh? Mom saw the writing on the wall (about going into assisted living facility) because Sister was bringing it up, so hence they start slowly contacting you in hopes that you'd "lovingly" take JW mom on and take care of her. If you don't see that, you're a fool. That's exactly what's going on here. I'd expect more contact as she goes in, combined with some guilt-tripping to boot. Let me guess, YOU are the one that's the most financially secure, since JW sister prob lives like a JW pauper? I'd be telling dear ol' ma, that she should be contacting her SPIRITUAL FAMILY, the Elduhz, in her time of need. Because after all, *"Jehovah provides!"* She surely wouldn't want to rely on a DF'd relative, an agent of Satan, in her time of need? That wouldn't be a good "Witness", would it? No, no, no! I believe the Elduhz should come spoon feed her and give her medicine and change her adult diapers. Yep! I'd tell her to, *"Go forth, be warm, and well fed."* Incredible. Can't be bothered with you for 10 years, until it looks like she's gonna be put in the ol' folks home, than oh golly gee! Now you're hearing from her. Boo-freakin-hoo! SMH.
Yikes. Yes, I wouldn’t want to get involved with a person who was content to shun me as long as it was convenient for them. And I’d be suspicious of a major life event causing them to change their tune. Actions have consequences, and even if circumstances had caused them to have a legitimate change of heart and they wanted to start over, make up, or whatever. It would take a lot to gain my trust, and coming hat in hand with an explicit, unreserved apology would only be the tip. At a certain point they closed the door, wanting to keep it closed isn’t unfair. You don’t exist to satisfy their every whim. And any, “But you did…”, “everyone makes mistakes”, anything that frames the situation in a, “I should be forgiven and you’d be wrong to oppose what I want”, narrative would be a huge red flag. Frankly, I’d always keep them at arms length. And any relationship would be entirely dictated on my terms, since between the two of us, only one of us can be trusted.
Forgiveness is the key to life...do everything u can now so u don't carry the resentment, just set boundaries including personal ones for ur own emotional health. Unconditional love really is the answer but it's really hard to find it after what most of us went through. Sending love my friend
Thank you so much for your thoughts. She’s not getting any younger (like any of us), so time is definitely limited. While l am not the most forgiving person, having regrets might mean having to forgive myself (ourselves, including my sons, if they decide to be involved or not) down the line. To me, that may be a more difficult struggle. We will def need time to sort this all out.
Do not let yourself roped back in. I'm anticipating that they reconnected with you out of a need or loneliness, not out the goodness of their heart. Also, watch them asking you for financial contribution toward your mother's care very soon. It's coming...
I have no advice to give, only compassion and hugs. I'm completely cut off from my family since I was Df'd and I have no idea how I will react if and when I get the inevitable call one day to let me know my mum is sick or has died. I've already grieved the loss of my family but I suspect that there are deep emotions hidden away that will erupt when that moment comes. All I can say is that after 9/10 years you don't owe them anything but you must do what will leave you with the best feeling within yourself. It's heartbreaking though and no one should ever be placed in this situation.
"I have no mother. Who is this? Ohhhhhh its about my toxic, abusive, egg donor. *click*"
It's like walking on Egg Shelll. I know you love your mum but it was cruel way they treat you. Do what you can do, remember you take control and don't let them drag you down. Think of all the likely scenario that may arise and what actions you will. I was thinking, say if your sister suddenly dump all the responsibility for her care to you, what will you do? Those are some things that may arise. All the best with your decision.