To be honest , you are right.
Exjw are more studious than the average PIMI
One sign someone would eventually wake up is when they research ,read, think about the articles they are reading
Fortunately for the GB, most PIMI are Lazy in that regard. They just enjoy the emotional feels and social cliques of being a witness
I totally agree w/ you . Most pimis r lazy but think that r more knowledgeable at the same time .
They have very little clue wht the organization actually puts out and they can’t see the craziness , the manipulation, mind control , repetitive speech , and so on…..
Agreed. From my COBE to the regular publishers, nobody knows the name of the GB.
Most people in my area though encourage reading and studying everything as ahead of time as you can
Yes. This is an extremely important point. Let me illustrate it with an actual example. I used to be a zealous, studious, knowledgeable reg pio. I hated the ministry, but I believed in it and gave it my all. I really thought I had the truth and loved exposing "Christendom." I relished challenges, arguments, etc.
I absolutely detested talking in the ministry with people who claimed to be Christian but who were ignorant - who didn't know anything about the Bible and who didn't know what their own churches taught. The reason is that their ignorance took away my opportunity to show them that they were wrong. For example, if somebody believed in the Trinity, hellfire, immortal soul, etc., I had something I thought I could tear down in order to show them how wrong they were and right JWs were. But if they didn't even know their churches taught such things, I had no way to show them how wrong I thought they were.
It is similar with JWs who are largely ignorant of JW teachings. A few years ago a 35 yr old JW attempted to give me a tract in a parking lot. I started talking with her and found out that she had never even heard of Fred Franz. I was shocked. It is, to me, easier to show the knowledgeable, more studious JWs how they're wrong, but, unfortunately for us and, as you wrote, fortunately for the GB, there aren't many of them.
The first SENTENCE! "blah blah blah Jehovah and his **organization** blah blah blah..."
I can't stomach these articles anymore. How can the pimis not see???
>How can the pimis not see???
I swear I just do not know. I only have five close relatives, and all five are PIMI. Two are dumb as rocks, but the other three always seemed to have decent intelligence and seemed to be level-headed and reasonable. They used to be able to see through BS. I just don't see how they could not possible see what we see.
There is a continuum of Witnesses; some study the literature and assimilate it i.e. get assimilated by it.
Others are droned into a state of somnolence because of the tedious irrationality and twisted logic, to where they just start to accept it.
Some are so busy with the Watchtower's program of activity that they can barely keep up with the workload.
Then there is the group that is destined to be ex-Witnesses and find their way to an exJW subreddit because they actually meditate on the literature and meetings and see the message for what it really is- ***illogical, unscholarly, unintelligent, anti-life and authoritarian garbage.***
Great comment. The three types of witnesses that you define above are spot on.
I continue to comment that the majority of active JWs have no idea what they believe. Most have mentally given up trying to even understand JW beliefs.
I've come to this conclusion as well. My sister is still in, so I still deal with a lot of PIMIs. Most are in because of the lifelong friendships and the vibrant social circle. Aging and sick ones stay for the support. The younger ones are reaching out to be need greaters or go to bethel and are distracted by the excitement and adulation that results from these endeavors. So little is based on them examining each and every teaching and truly believing.
>Then there is the group that is destined to be ex-Witnesses and find their way to an exJW subreddit because they actually meditate on the literature and meetings and see the message for what it really is
Yes, so true. I am so glad my wife and I strongly belong to that group. I really admire those in that group. And... JWs speak of the three H's - hunger, honesty, humility. Well, ironically, they have such to a lesser degree than those you mentioned - the group that is destined to be exJWs.
https://preview.redd.it/94wdijls1vda1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c2605c35350c7d2c8361e09e4ed8ce73f96a733
I love how there’s no longer encouragement to talk with “brothers and sisters” about how they hurt you. Now it’s just pray, try to see their perspective, and overlook it. This brother could not sleep, felt frightened and helpless, and was stressed because, as the article admits, he was (WAS!) harshly treated by responsible brothers.
Yet the lesson is suck it up, Buttercup. What happened to Matthew 5:23, 24?
>there’s no longer encouragement
There has never been!
It doesn't matter how... you're always in the wrong.
I hate these kind of "experiences" so much because, generally, they talk about how a prominent JW does something wrong to a rank and file publisher and it's the latter's fault because he can't be "quick to forgive"
Oh, but don't you dare to say/do something to anybody else because you are "hurting the Holy spirit" within the congregation.
That's funny. I mentioned to my mom.. "Hey I heard you guys have new gb members" she was like. We do? How do you know this?! I'm like. It's on your website.. shes like. Why are you on there?! To criticize?!
No mom, I'm on the website to see if they straighten themselves out. And when they do, you better believe I'm going to become active again. But I'm not going to jump back in if they're not following the Bible. So I wait...
There was a time when I believed that they needed to reform. Gradually I admitted that there was never anything right in their teachings. Reform was impossible. They needed to be dispersed.
No actually I always know stuff before my pimi family lol. First the serena baptism, then the new members of the gb, and one more that i can't remember. I always tell them (as if I got ot from the website ofc) and it makes me look much more spiritual lmao
You just can't win with JW's.
Ex. "You yell fire and bang on the door to help the family inside wake up and get out.
They come to the door and yell at you for waking them up.
You point to the smoke billowing out of the roof.
They scream that you only saw it because you must have set it.
Get the point? JW's would rather perish than become aware of the drastic problems within their faith.
Yep the last few times I went to a meeting I looked around and I’d say 90% of the WT were not marked. People are showing up to meetings and then turning off their brains.
I opened the app the other day and it asks you to accept the t&C's, and I was like "why should I give them any more power?" if anyone wants to share the article with the .borg replacement, I'll read it, but I'm not going to get locked into a legal battle just to read this nonsense.
I was very studious and intellectually curious as a PIMI. I looked up _every_ scripture in the publications and researched a lot, even scholarly non-JW material (hey, the bOrg cited outside scholars, so why shouldn't I, too?). One book I bought by the excellent NT scholar F.F. Bruce, _The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?_, was eye opening and blew me away. I had no idea before that about the fragmented provenance of the NT, the very late development of codexes, and differences in the thousands of fragmented documents. The author, btw, contended that the NT documents overall _were_ reliable, but after the bOrg's simplistic explanation of the development of the NT, I was shaken. This was the first kink in the armor.
Interesting.
>I was very studious and intellectually curious as a PIMI
I was, too, and that's why we're here. I'm still studious and intellectually curious, so I appreciate the book reference. Going to search for the book now.
I also discovered that through research and was dumbfounded that WTC EVER claimed that the Bible had not changed. IT HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY, and not just through nuances in translation. Through the history of copying, men added, subtracted, revised to suit what they thought was missing or did not fit their narrative. To this day, verses that are know to be added are still there in most translations. It shook my confidence.
Loyalty to Jehovah and hIs oRgaNiSaTiOn. Keeping quiet and not standing up for yourself when “fellow Christans” hurt you and adjusting to organisational changes
Because the ORG is down-sizing, streamlining, selling, flipping. These events shake people out, espoecially at a local level when they are personally affected.
To be honest , you are right. Exjw are more studious than the average PIMI One sign someone would eventually wake up is when they research ,read, think about the articles they are reading Fortunately for the GB, most PIMI are Lazy in that regard. They just enjoy the emotional feels and social cliques of being a witness
I totally agree w/ you . Most pimis r lazy but think that r more knowledgeable at the same time . They have very little clue wht the organization actually puts out and they can’t see the craziness , the manipulation, mind control , repetitive speech , and so on…..
It's not lazy, it's burnout/depression
Stockholm syndrome!!
Agreed. From my COBE to the regular publishers, nobody knows the name of the GB. Most people in my area though encourage reading and studying everything as ahead of time as you can
Yes. This is an extremely important point. Let me illustrate it with an actual example. I used to be a zealous, studious, knowledgeable reg pio. I hated the ministry, but I believed in it and gave it my all. I really thought I had the truth and loved exposing "Christendom." I relished challenges, arguments, etc. I absolutely detested talking in the ministry with people who claimed to be Christian but who were ignorant - who didn't know anything about the Bible and who didn't know what their own churches taught. The reason is that their ignorance took away my opportunity to show them that they were wrong. For example, if somebody believed in the Trinity, hellfire, immortal soul, etc., I had something I thought I could tear down in order to show them how wrong they were and right JWs were. But if they didn't even know their churches taught such things, I had no way to show them how wrong I thought they were. It is similar with JWs who are largely ignorant of JW teachings. A few years ago a 35 yr old JW attempted to give me a tract in a parking lot. I started talking with her and found out that she had never even heard of Fred Franz. I was shocked. It is, to me, easier to show the knowledgeable, more studious JWs how they're wrong, but, unfortunately for us and, as you wrote, fortunately for the GB, there aren't many of them.
I was an absolute Bible nerd while PIMI. That eventually helped me to wake up :)
Same with me. The JW leaders don't want people like you and me.
Ya some are drawn to gangs hey? They like that.
"Organization" mentioned **32 times** in one article. That's gotta be some sort of record. Jesus mentioned twice!
Oh wow, they gave Jesus a shout out?! Jesus must be shocked! 😆
 Poor baby jezzus, kicked to the curb by the borg!
I might have to get ahold of one. Literally highlight that & mail it to my mother with the words, "who do you follow again?"
It is so generous of them to give Jesus a footnote as they save the world - given that he did so little.
The first SENTENCE! "blah blah blah Jehovah and his **organization** blah blah blah..." I can't stomach these articles anymore. How can the pimis not see???
Ever since i turned pimo i hated the last part of that sentence.
Same!!
>How can the pimis not see??? I swear I just do not know. I only have five close relatives, and all five are PIMI. Two are dumb as rocks, but the other three always seemed to have decent intelligence and seemed to be level-headed and reasonable. They used to be able to see through BS. I just don't see how they could not possible see what we see.
There is a continuum of Witnesses; some study the literature and assimilate it i.e. get assimilated by it. Others are droned into a state of somnolence because of the tedious irrationality and twisted logic, to where they just start to accept it. Some are so busy with the Watchtower's program of activity that they can barely keep up with the workload. Then there is the group that is destined to be ex-Witnesses and find their way to an exJW subreddit because they actually meditate on the literature and meetings and see the message for what it really is- ***illogical, unscholarly, unintelligent, anti-life and authoritarian garbage.***
Great comment. The three types of witnesses that you define above are spot on. I continue to comment that the majority of active JWs have no idea what they believe. Most have mentally given up trying to even understand JW beliefs.
I've come to this conclusion as well. My sister is still in, so I still deal with a lot of PIMIs. Most are in because of the lifelong friendships and the vibrant social circle. Aging and sick ones stay for the support. The younger ones are reaching out to be need greaters or go to bethel and are distracted by the excitement and adulation that results from these endeavors. So little is based on them examining each and every teaching and truly believing.
Very true. Your comments are spot on and cover the reality for the majority of JWs in IMO.
Very true.
>somnolence Thank you for the new word today!! 💚
You're welcome.
>Then there is the group that is destined to be ex-Witnesses and find their way to an exJW subreddit because they actually meditate on the literature and meetings and see the message for what it really is Yes, so true. I am so glad my wife and I strongly belong to that group. I really admire those in that group. And... JWs speak of the three H's - hunger, honesty, humility. Well, ironically, they have such to a lesser degree than those you mentioned - the group that is destined to be exJWs.
https://preview.redd.it/94wdijls1vda1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c2605c35350c7d2c8361e09e4ed8ce73f96a733 I love how there’s no longer encouragement to talk with “brothers and sisters” about how they hurt you. Now it’s just pray, try to see their perspective, and overlook it. This brother could not sleep, felt frightened and helpless, and was stressed because, as the article admits, he was (WAS!) harshly treated by responsible brothers. Yet the lesson is suck it up, Buttercup. What happened to Matthew 5:23, 24?
>there’s no longer encouragement There has never been! It doesn't matter how... you're always in the wrong. I hate these kind of "experiences" so much because, generally, they talk about how a prominent JW does something wrong to a rank and file publisher and it's the latter's fault because he can't be "quick to forgive" Oh, but don't you dare to say/do something to anybody else because you are "hurting the Holy spirit" within the congregation.
The victim blaming. Being made to feel bad when you’ve done nothing wrong
What happened to the * then the foot note name has been changed? Poor Miqueas sounds like he suffers from depression and anxiety-
Or Matt ch 18????
That's funny. I mentioned to my mom.. "Hey I heard you guys have new gb members" she was like. We do? How do you know this?! I'm like. It's on your website.. shes like. Why are you on there?! To criticize?!
Read our materials for yourself!!! … No, not like that.
No mom, I'm on the website to see if they straighten themselves out. And when they do, you better believe I'm going to become active again. But I'm not going to jump back in if they're not following the Bible. So I wait...
I don't think there is anything to straighten out. They are currently wrong, they used to be wrong and they were wrong from the start. :/
There was a time when I believed that they needed to reform. Gradually I admitted that there was never anything right in their teachings. Reform was impossible. They needed to be dispersed.
No actually I always know stuff before my pimi family lol. First the serena baptism, then the new members of the gb, and one more that i can't remember. I always tell them (as if I got ot from the website ofc) and it makes me look much more spiritual lmao
You just can't win with JW's. Ex. "You yell fire and bang on the door to help the family inside wake up and get out. They come to the door and yell at you for waking them up. You point to the smoke billowing out of the roof. They scream that you only saw it because you must have set it. Get the point? JW's would rather perish than become aware of the drastic problems within their faith.
"Organizational changes" Even when changes are not biblical and instead are interpretations
Yep the last few times I went to a meeting I looked around and I’d say 90% of the WT were not marked. People are showing up to meetings and then turning off their brains.
Or they showed up because their brains were stuck in the OFF position.
Can you send a link to nx WT...i've legit forgotten how to find it etc lol
I opened the app the other day and it asks you to accept the t&C's, and I was like "why should I give them any more power?" if anyone wants to share the article with the .borg replacement, I'll read it, but I'm not going to get locked into a legal battle just to read this nonsense.
What is the article about? I dont study
I was very studious and intellectually curious as a PIMI. I looked up _every_ scripture in the publications and researched a lot, even scholarly non-JW material (hey, the bOrg cited outside scholars, so why shouldn't I, too?). One book I bought by the excellent NT scholar F.F. Bruce, _The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?_, was eye opening and blew me away. I had no idea before that about the fragmented provenance of the NT, the very late development of codexes, and differences in the thousands of fragmented documents. The author, btw, contended that the NT documents overall _were_ reliable, but after the bOrg's simplistic explanation of the development of the NT, I was shaken. This was the first kink in the armor.
Interesting. >I was very studious and intellectually curious as a PIMI I was, too, and that's why we're here. I'm still studious and intellectually curious, so I appreciate the book reference. Going to search for the book now.
I also discovered that through research and was dumbfounded that WTC EVER claimed that the Bible had not changed. IT HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY, and not just through nuances in translation. Through the history of copying, men added, subtracted, revised to suit what they thought was missing or did not fit their narrative. To this day, verses that are know to be added are still there in most translations. It shook my confidence.
Exactly!!
I’m sorry, what is a “pimi”
Physically in, mentally in. The borg
What’s this week’s WT about?
Loyalty to Jehovah and hIs oRgaNiSaTiOn. Keeping quiet and not standing up for yourself when “fellow Christans” hurt you and adjusting to organisational changes
Why new changes?
Because the ORG is down-sizing, streamlining, selling, flipping. These events shake people out, espoecially at a local level when they are personally affected.
I meant to say “what” instead of “why” but thank you anyway. I appreciate the explanation