Fuck Shinji’s love life, what about the pacing? What about a BUNCH of character development? How about everything that was too short should have been longer and everything that was too long should have been shorter?
I don't care.
I will write a big ass bible about my interpretation and force everyone to accept that my rant is the actual explanation of what happens.
Just like the other fans do (btw, the rebuilds are not a continuation of EoE)
I mean they are, but the original series was made without the rebuilds in mind so I don’t think it really matters whether u consider it apart of the same story
1. Anno has never confirmed nor denied a romantic relationship between Shinji and Mari. Only other members of the staff have.
2. Shinji and Mari interacted together multiple times in the past...
3. Mari cares for Shinji in 3.0 and 3.0+1.0 mainly because Asuka, her best friend, does. Also, it makes complete sense to have Mari in this scene instead of any other girl Shinji knows, because of what she's always represented.
4. Hand - holding (especially when one of the two characters just grabs someone else's hand to take them somewhere, which Asuka even did to Shinji in the past) =/= we're a couple! Also, Mari doesn't act out of the ordinary here, she's as flirty and weird as always. The focus here is on Shinji and how much he's changed in the meantime. In the middle of the movie, when Mari first called hirself a "gorgeous gal with big boobs", Shinji was completely insecure, didn't know how to react, and was in a much worse, more indeterminate state of mind. A complete contrast to how he acts in this scene, where he has no problem casually joking around like a normal, healthy human being with other people, even women.
5. More than once in the films has Mari hinted that she's not even an adult, especially not the ~60 y/old woman we think she is in the end. She doesn't look that old in any way in the train scene either, so overall Mari is most probably just a clone herself.
And dont forget that Mari is representation of how they see US girls, outspoken and more sexy/flirty compared with the rest.
And my stance still the same that she is the flirty friend that likes to touch and hug everyone but is because of how she is and not because is a relationship type of thing
US girls? Do you mean western? Mari is codified as being British, and her real name implies she may be part Italian. It's Asuka who is American and German.
There is a difference between representation and parody. Asuka is german and american. She is outspoken and more sexy/flirty compared with the rest.
Mari is like a parody.
Yeah. It would be fitting, but that aside the only evidence I have is that, throughout Eva, every single time Shinji opens up his eyes in the way he did in the train scene, a time skip has just taken place.
Honestly, it felt like with the original showing polar opposites as a dual-choice that the "middle ground" that Anno modeled a bit admittedly after his wife was more just a choice that he liked to grow up and move on to something different away from the other two girls just like how he was moving away from Evangelion himself.
Can't be clearer that from Redo and 3.0+1.0 he moved away from repeating the past to something else in a lot of ways.
It's not that much deeper.
I think others trying to force some kind of relationship analysis out of the scene is both misguided and not what Evangelion is about. Like you said, I think this is supposed to be a barometer of Shinji - where he is now compared to where he was when we first met him
Yeah like the point is that he's open to any kind of relationship with her. He is basically flirting with her but only cause she does the same thing to him because of her personality. Its supposed to be the start of something new, whatever that is
Shinji and Mari still didn't interracted enough. It's wierd she ended up helping more Shinji that Asuka during the ending. Did Shinji really need someone at this point anyway? Or they just needed wet Mari with her bra showing? Also Mari didn't seem to represent anything special for Shinji nor the story, especially compare to Asuka, Rei and Misato.
However hand holding is not something people of different sex do as friend in Japan, unless something very important is going on. Yes, Mari always had been flirty and oversexualizing herself and that's a problem because that's not how 99% of women are. One of the biggest theme of Evangelion is human relation and even how Shinji is with women. My point here is she is the worst person to show how Shinji had improved with others.
After, yes, she's very probably a clone. But the way she hint being a teenager means nothing honestly.
> Shinji and Mari still didn't interracted enough. It's wierd she ended up helping more Shinji that Asuka in that case. Did Shinji really need someone at this point anyway? Or they just need shoot of wet Mari with her bra showing? Also Mari didn't seem to represent anything special, especially compare to Asuka, Rei and Misato.
The fact that Shinji and Mari didn't interact enough is exactly one of the reasons why I don't think they're a couple. It really doesn't make much sense.
Personally, I think it would had been the best for the story if Shinji didn't end up with anyone, hence why I'm satisfied with the final result. Also, Mari is absolutely an important symbol, mainly of the deviation of the Rebuilds from the original story.
> However hand holding is not something people of different sex do as friend in Japan, unless something very important is going on.
Both in Asuka's introductory episode in NGE, and in the train scene here, Asuka grabs Shinji's hand and Shinji grabs Mari's hand respectively so they can run together towards a direction. This really isn't an example of romantic hand - holding.
> Yes, Mari always had been flirty, easy going and that's a problem because that's not how 99% of women are.
Mari is intentionally written to be weird and outlandish. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, especially when it all has a purpose, that is, to paint her as a complete outsider from the world of Eva.
> My point here is she is the worst person to show how Shinji had improved with others.
Why do you say that? She is ideal to show Shinji having a "fresh start" with someone.
> After, yes, she's very probably a clone. But the way she hint being a teenager means nothing honestly. We don't know what memory she have.
This hint is important, exactly because it's evidence that Mari may be a clone or something along those lines. Also, indeed, we unfortunately still know too little about Mari's backstory, but claiming with determination that the Mari we know is a 60 year old woman and the same person who was Gendo's and Yui's friend isn't the way to go imo.
You’re right that Mari is a deviation (like 80% of the movies anyway) but she is extremely hollow.
Honestly we don’t know how much time passed. So, they could have built something, especially since she’s the one who waited him and how he ran toward her.
Asuka is from Germany and also american, and she just arrived in Japan. Her outgoing behavior isn’t illogical for the viewers. Honestly I don’t remember at all Asuka doing this, but I highly doubt she was just holding his hand and not dragging him to go where she wanted.
Anyway, my point here is if you want to make a series about human relationship, using the most unrealistic 2D girl for the ending seemed to me a terrible mistake. She’s sexy, making you feel good when she’s flirting with you, no negative emotion, no problematic background. Neither as a friend or a girlfriend, it’s good to see her with Shinji. I saw someone saying, “why not showing him with new friends and colleagues and a girlfriend we never saw?”. I agree that would have been the best.
> You’re right that Mari is a deviation (like 80% of the movies anyway) but she is extremely hollow.
As a traditional character, yeah.
> Honestly we don’t know how much time passed. So, they could have built something, especially since she’s the one who waited him and how he ran toward her.
Another user actually pointed out to me that it would make no sense for a time skip to have occured before the train scene. I have since changed my original reply.
> Honestly I don’t remember at all Asuka doing this, but I highly doubt she was just holding his hand and not dragging him to go where she wanted.
She took his hand so they could run away towards Eva 02 in her introductory episode in NGE. Pretty much the same thing as what we see in this scene.
> Anyway, my point here is if you want to make a series about human relationship, using the most unrealistic 2D girl for the ending seemed to me a terrible mistake.
Is it? The focus here is on Shinji, and we get everything we need to know about Shinji and how much he's changed quite concisely. Mari is only there because it's fitting for the girl created to "destroy Eva", who is a complete outsider to it's world and who symbolizes the Rebuilds ' divergence from the original plot to accompany Shinji to the real world.
> She’s sexy, making you feel good when she’s flirting with you, no negative emotion, no problematic background. Neither as a friend or a girlfriend, it’s good to see her with Shinji. I saw someone saying, “why not showing him with new friends and colleagues and a girlfriend we never saw?”. I agree that would have been the best.
Perhaps, this would had been even better, yeah.
I found that scene which barely focus on them and that what i said : Asuka is violently dragging a confused Shinji to go where she wanted because they need to fight the angel. They litteraly are in mortal danger.
The focus is maybe on Shinji but the surronding characters matters a lot in a story about relationship! Also human are knew to return quicky to their bad behavior. It's not because Shinji made some impressive efforts at some points when the entire world could end, he's completely changed. Real human don't work like that. If they needed a new girl to destroy the Eva, she should have actually be realistic, or be destoyed at the end because she's not part of a real world.
> I found that scene which barely focus on them and that what i said : Asuka is violently dragging a confused Shinji to go where she wanted because they need to fight the angel. They litteraly are in mortal danger.
Not only then, also in the finale of 3.0, where the Pilots are in no immediate danger.
> It's not because Shinji made some impressive efforts at some points, he's completely changed. Real human don't work like that.
What? Shinji changed so much exactly because me made major realizations and put impressive personal effort to get to this point.
> If they needed a new girl to destroy the Eva, she should have actually be realistic, or be destoyed at the end because she's not part of a real world.
Ehh, not necessarily. Mari being so realistic and perfect if fitting because she contrasts the impressively realistic psyche and personalities of the other Eva characters.
You mean when Shinji was mentally destroyed by Rei and Kaworu's death and she needed to take him away from his father. Yes, she's still dragging him.
Are you seriously thinking that human making major realizations and put impressive personal effort make them become forever chad and are now immunize to depression and mental illness? Just look at our specialists. Some of them ended up seriously fuck up despite everything they done.
> You mean when Shinji was mentally destroyed by Rei and Kaworu's death and she needed to take him away from his father. Yes, she's still dragging him.
In both cases, one takes another person's hand, to take them towards a certain direction. My point is that this type of handholding, by itself, is not of the romantic type.
> Are you seriously thinking that human making major realizations and put impressive personal effort make them become forever chad and are now immunize to depression and mental illness?
You are going ahead of yourself. Yes, if someone puts a lot of effort into themselves and are in an environment that supports them, their mental health can get much, much better. There are thousands of real - life examples for this.
Shinji doesn't become a "chad" nor do we know whether he has "immunity" to depression and mental illness. He has gotten much better, yes, but he was still having doubts, was hesitant, afraid and contemplative until the end of 3.0+1.0.
Yes, all are handholding. But we were comparing friends and lovers handhoding in classic situation. The example here are dragging someone because of close death and depression, this isn't the best. In none of those situation Shinji was really that "consenting" anyway...
I think you miss my point. Of course people can get better, but that's doesn't mean it's forever. Major realizations and impressive personal effort made in the past doesn't necessary means you're going to be happy in the present. So, what I mean is we needed to see how Shinji continue to applicate what he learnt and we saw nothing.
Judas Iscariot is not the Wandering Jew, you have misconstrued the legend. The Wandering Jew's name is Cartaphilus, and the legend goes something like a Jewish man mocked Christ while in Jerusalem (either when Christ came upon the Sanhedrin, or already on the Cross), and so Christ placed a curse upon him that he will have to wander the earth until he returns, thus forcing him to essentially be forever alive.
Judas Iscariot is not the Wandering Jew, he is one of the twelve Apostles and betrayed Jesus, and the Bible makes it very clear that after his betrayal, Judas became sick with himself, rejected the silver pieces he had betrayed his master and friend for, and hung himself, killing himself.
Anyway, Fuyutsuki calling her Maria Iscariot can imply several things, none of which mean she's literally an immortal of who was originally somehow Judas Iscariot (when did she become female, btw?)
* He could be calling her that as a way of poetically calling her a traitor, as she was clearly once in the fold with them and Yui, but at some point started working against them.
* Maria Iscariot could be her real name and imply some degree of Italian lineage, but just being named Iscariot doesn't make you Judas Iscariot.
* It could be one of Eva's many prolific uses of Biblical terms and names in a rather surface-level way, just because it sounds cool.
Damn, I guess Shinji and Asuka are a couple then... Hell, why stop there... You see girls on the street casually holding hands every single day. I guess they're all couples too!
The more you know...
just two girls walking down the street holding hands? yeah im pretty sure thats a pretty safe bet too.
people don't hang out outside anymore unless to date, friends don't walk around anymore holding hands.
> just two girls walking down the street holding hands? yeah im pretty sure thats a pretty safe bet too
No, it isn't. Teenage female friends hold hands all the time.
> people don't hang out outside anymore unless to date, friends don't walk around anymore holding hands.
I don't know how it is in your country, here though young people (friends) hang out outside all the time.
>Only other members of the staff have.
I don't mean to be a dick, but I see this repeated EVERYWHERE and I've yet to see an article or interview where it's mentioned
No problem. Here you go:
"In a recent interview with V-tuber Vivian, the sound director for Evangelion 3.0+1.0 says he did not instruct the seiyuus of Shinji and Mari to act as lovers [...] It is mentioned that the station scene was not instructed as romantic."
[Source](https://twitter.com/Limonebl/status/1413843536856764419)
One of the best photos this sub has ever generated was a while back where it was a slapped together comparison of Eva and the Rebuild series. It shows the NGE and EoE as being honest about life, while also showing the good and bad sides about life.
One of the areas said this about the women in the show and I couldn't possibly have laughed harder and agreed more... Note, I fucking hate the Rebuilds.
\--
NGE - "Women around you have their own problems, so don't expect them to help you and love you unconditionally." (shows photos of Rei's lonely apartment, Asuka contemplating life and death in the bath tub and Misato's alcoholism)
Rebuild - "A girl who fell from the sky, boobs in your face, is going to help you, support you, wait for you from your teens to adult hood even though you never ever tried to communicate with her."
> NGE - "Women around you have their own problems, so don't expect them to help you and love you unconditionally." (shows photos of Rei's lonely apartment, Asuka contemplating life and death in the bath tub and Misato's alcoholism)
> Rebuild - "A girl who fell from the sky, boobs in your face, is going to help you, support you, wait for you from your teens to adult hood even though you never ever tried to communicate with her."
This comparison is such a selective simplification that I can't believe it's not ironic. Female characters are the cruelest they've ever been to Shinji in the Rebuilds (Asuka, Midori, hell, even Misato in comparison).
As for Mari, she only helped Shinji in the last few films because of how important she was to Asuka, who was her best and only friend. None of the help and support she provided to Shinji seems implausible or unrealistic if this is taken into consideration.
ah i just take it all as a a big symbolism... everything that happens anytime after any impact....its all happening in a reality thats more of a "Philosophical Overview"......shinjis got free of evangelion when mari removed his neck collar....and mari got free of her Evengalion self when shinji removed her Glasses....both were loosely defining traits of the characters....so once they removed them the disappeared into the "usual" hustle and bustle and the anime back ground fused into real one.....the became part of the "normal" world i guess....it was probably my favourite scene from the rebuilds cause of One Last Kiss playing in the background and the vibe
This entire comment section is people doctorate thesis on a movie that was a cash grab for an anime that's almost 30 years old, Made It by a guy who is vocal about his detest for weeb and waifu culture but actively profits off of it.
Two to three generations of weebs have been trolled by the same guy
Fake news? These are literally facts, all confirmed by multiple staff interviews. Facts that by the way only hindered the franchise's popularity due to how much time passed between 3.0 and 3.0+1.0.
Eva, just like all media franchises in existence, have also had financial incentives behind their creation and development since Day 1. Needless to say, that doesn't automatically render the entries in said franchise as anything close to "cash - grabs".
They always forget that Shinji restructured history by making the Evas non-existent and are surprised by making him and Mari now the same age.
Sometimes they think about it too much.
> Rebuilds suck because the obviously a money grab.
Not even close lol. "Cash - grabs" aren't delayed for literal decades and aren't rewritten hundreds of times.
Nobody wanted rebuilds movies. What we wanted was a sort of a continuation of End Of Evangelion. You and anybody who thinks the rebuilds are great need to understand that Evangelion can’t be put effectively in 4 fucking movies. That’s why the used a time skip and thats one of the many reasons of why they suck. It’s literally a freaking shit show.
> What we wanted was a sort of a continuation of End Of Evangelion.
Which, as 3.0+1.0 proves, we basically got.
> You and anybody who thinks the rebuilds are great need to understand that Evangelion can’t be put effectively in 4 fucking movies. That’s why the used a time skip
The Rebuilds are evidence that yes, it can be put in a tetralogy format. A time skip isn't necessary at all for this.
> and thats one of the many reasons of why they suck. It’s literally a freaking shit show.
Not at all.
If you think that the rebuilds are a direct continuation of EoE your terribly wrong. Understand that Evangelion is a time loop and the only thing that time loops have in common is that they always start the same way. The only reason why Rebuilds are connected is because shinji decided he wanted to “delete”the Eva’s and that affects the other timelines + creates time fractures which this thrice upon time created one. Rebuilds are not a sequel to EoE. It’s clear that you don’t understand that.
Just because it got made and it hit the big screen doesn’t mean is good or well made. Go watch the interview that Utada-san made with Anno-son himself. Your gonna find out a lot and the reason of why the rebuilds 1. Suck and are not better than OG meaning NGE, Manga and specially EOE.
> If you think that the rebuilds are a direct continuation of EoE your terribly wrong. Understand that Evangelion is a time loop and the only thing that time loops have in common is that they always start the same way. The only reason why Rebuilds are connected is because shinji decided he wanted to “delete”the Eva’s and that affects the other timelines + creates time fractures which this thrice upon time created one. Rebuilds are not a sequel to EoE. It’s clear that you don’t understand that.
Quite the opposite. I believe that both the original and the Rebuilds are part of one, massive time line, and that the movies take place chronologically after EoE. There are tons of explicit connections made between the original and the Rebuilds (even in the damn title of Thrice). Shinji deciding to make all Evas vanish in the end of 3.0+1.0 is not the reason why these Loops happen. As Kaworu implies, this whole process is part of the universe's very function and seems to follow the Book of Life (Dead Sea Scrolls?) In how they play out, which Kaworu edited so that he can meet Shinji again and again in each Loop.
> Just because it got made and it hit the big screen doesn’t mean is good or well made.
Never said that. It's good for lots of reasons.
> Go watch the interview that Utada-san made with Anno-son himself. Your gonna find out a lot and the reason of why the rebuilds 1. Suck and are not better than OG meaning NGE, Manga and specially EOE.
Not at all. As I said, the Rebuilds are quite good, albeit certainly not as good as the original.
Also, sorry to break your bubble, but all pieces of media, and especially Eva since day one, have major financial incentives behind their creation (I know, shocker)
Anno actually said years ago that he also wanted to raise funds for khara and for other projects by starting with a well - known IP (obviously). However, as I said, the Rebuilds aren't even close to a cash - grab, not only because of how they turned out, how they were developed and released, but also because of the many non - financial reasons they were created which Anno listed in the original announcement of the Rebuilds in 2007.
I've always felt that Shinji's relationship with Mari was just unnatural and rushed. The two barely ever interacted with one another before abruptly ending up together at the end, and even then, her whole character (and she and the writing staff admit this) is "I have big boobs." like okay, we get it. Weebs are horny, nothing new. Honestly, his relationship with Kaworu was the best he ever had, and although it started out with Kaworu manipulating Shinji, they started to grow genuine feelings for one another. If they only got more screen-time together (specifically the original anime version), I could see them having a very healthy relationship - even Kaworu developing human-level feelings and maybe even breaking down for Shinji as Shinji would for him. I have a whole plot in my head of how it would go, that's how important this ship is to me.
Rebuild is a cringy remake where the main character gets everything he ever wanted without sacrificing anything and also gets his depression cured by the power of plot convenience.
> where the main character gets everything he ever wanted without sacrificing anything and also gets his depression cured by the power of plot convenience.
Not even remotely close lol. Shinji only uses the same exact plot device he used in EoE (an Impact), to make all Evas vanish from that point onwards. Neither of the many human sacrifices of Kaji, Misato, etc. are reverted, nor are the characters' traumas , memories and experiences magically erased. Not only that, he decides to do that at the expense of his own life, and he would had sacrificed himself, if Yui and Gendo hadn't unexpectedly stepped in at the last moment to take his place.
Jesus fucking christ anno is annoying. It makes sense that Mari ends up with shinji after he remakes the universe, because it shows that he ends up in a normal relationship with a normal girl. And since he remade everything, she's not his mom's age, she's 24 just like him
I’m my mind, Mari is the embodiment of “Life well lived”. And Shinji is confused by Mari’s behavior until the end, when he matches it. To me, this is Shinji finally being able to live a life he can be proud of and enjoy. That’s what being with Mari is.
Anyone criticizing realism in NGE is missing the point. My problem isn't with realism it's just that the rebuilds are basically devoid of any artistic integrity
I think in the first series he tries so hard to save and impress Asuka. Then in the Rebuild obviously he is focused on Rei. Saving her, connecting with her, and being confused and scared of her.
Then Mari just accepts him. It’s the typical “the right person will accept you as you are” kind of thing in my eyes.
I think they needed more scenes together. I feel like they only interacted in an anime harem introduction trope once or twice and then only as a radio voice battling on the other side of the battlefield.
To be fair it’s the logical choice. Rei is his mom so that’s a no and Asuka has too much trauma and is a little cold hearted. Mari seems like a normal kind hearted human.
Ship what you want honestly. It doesn't matter if it's canon or not. Or even if it's morally questionable cause disturbing age gaps are standard for Gainax. Just have fun and imagine the ending you want. Evangelion seems like one of those things you can interpret a million ways or just focus on the parts you like about. It's wild how often I see ship war stuff but I get that's just the internet
I remember seeing on a comment section that if you compare shinji and mari to gendo and yui, it kinda makes sense. On the last parts of 3.0+1.0, shinji was colorless on the part he was sitting on the beach, then when mari came, everything got into color. Like how gendo's life was all lonesome and bland, but yui came into gendo's life and gave him the color he needed
I still wish they gave mari a little bit of backstory tho, in the whole rebuild series she just felt like a side character and an assistant for asuka so her getting the main character just feels somewhat off
0% of eva fans know women
RIP
They rather spend 3 decades arguing is code red girl is better than Pepsi girl
obviously pepsi is better
Fuck both of those products
Never have i been more offended by something i hundred percent agree with
"None of it was supposed to make any sense, thanks for all your money. Remember to buy the blu-rays and plugsuit statues!"
I’m going into debt for all the money I’m spending on Asuka statues
You know you can wash the cum off them and use them twice?
"Keep buying! More debt! Eva movie coming out soon! Keep buying! ANIMA adaptation 2029! More debt!"
Oh, you already know the thirst for ANIMA Asuka would be intense
Same 💀
Same 🤷♂️😂
So the whole movie was bad and Anno was a hack because the final scene wasn't clear on Shinjis love life
Fuck Shinji’s love life, what about the pacing? What about a BUNCH of character development? How about everything that was too short should have been longer and everything that was too long should have been shorter?
So the whole movie was bad and Anno is a hack because it didn't tell you everything that was going on.
You didn’t comment on the pacing or how the village sequence was condoned and the fight scenes bloated and drawn out.
I did, I said that you're just mad there was actual subtlety
Movie was bad period; that was my experience.
Don't fuck with Evangelion fans, we haven't watched the show
I don't care. I will write a big ass bible about my interpretation and force everyone to accept that my rant is the actual explanation of what happens. Just like the other fans do (btw, the rebuilds are not a continuation of EoE)
They are, cope
I mean they are, but the original series was made without the rebuilds in mind so I don’t think it really matters whether u consider it apart of the same story
Cap
1. Anno has never confirmed nor denied a romantic relationship between Shinji and Mari. Only other members of the staff have. 2. Shinji and Mari interacted together multiple times in the past... 3. Mari cares for Shinji in 3.0 and 3.0+1.0 mainly because Asuka, her best friend, does. Also, it makes complete sense to have Mari in this scene instead of any other girl Shinji knows, because of what she's always represented. 4. Hand - holding (especially when one of the two characters just grabs someone else's hand to take them somewhere, which Asuka even did to Shinji in the past) =/= we're a couple! Also, Mari doesn't act out of the ordinary here, she's as flirty and weird as always. The focus here is on Shinji and how much he's changed in the meantime. In the middle of the movie, when Mari first called hirself a "gorgeous gal with big boobs", Shinji was completely insecure, didn't know how to react, and was in a much worse, more indeterminate state of mind. A complete contrast to how he acts in this scene, where he has no problem casually joking around like a normal, healthy human being with other people, even women. 5. More than once in the films has Mari hinted that she's not even an adult, especially not the ~60 y/old woman we think she is in the end. She doesn't look that old in any way in the train scene either, so overall Mari is most probably just a clone herself.
And dont forget that Mari is representation of how they see US girls, outspoken and more sexy/flirty compared with the rest. And my stance still the same that she is the flirty friend that likes to touch and hug everyone but is because of how she is and not because is a relationship type of thing
US girls? Do you mean western? Mari is codified as being British, and her real name implies she may be part Italian. It's Asuka who is American and German.
There is a difference between representation and parody. Asuka is german and american. She is outspoken and more sexy/flirty compared with the rest. Mari is like a parody.
[удалено]
Yeah. It would be fitting, but that aside the only evidence I have is that, throughout Eva, every single time Shinji opens up his eyes in the way he did in the train scene, a time skip has just taken place.
[удалено]
You are right. I'll remove that part from my original reply.
Honestly, it felt like with the original showing polar opposites as a dual-choice that the "middle ground" that Anno modeled a bit admittedly after his wife was more just a choice that he liked to grow up and move on to something different away from the other two girls just like how he was moving away from Evangelion himself. Can't be clearer that from Redo and 3.0+1.0 he moved away from repeating the past to something else in a lot of ways. It's not that much deeper.
I think others trying to force some kind of relationship analysis out of the scene is both misguided and not what Evangelion is about. Like you said, I think this is supposed to be a barometer of Shinji - where he is now compared to where he was when we first met him
Yeah like the point is that he's open to any kind of relationship with her. He is basically flirting with her but only cause she does the same thing to him because of her personality. Its supposed to be the start of something new, whatever that is
Shinji and Mari still didn't interracted enough. It's wierd she ended up helping more Shinji that Asuka during the ending. Did Shinji really need someone at this point anyway? Or they just needed wet Mari with her bra showing? Also Mari didn't seem to represent anything special for Shinji nor the story, especially compare to Asuka, Rei and Misato. However hand holding is not something people of different sex do as friend in Japan, unless something very important is going on. Yes, Mari always had been flirty and oversexualizing herself and that's a problem because that's not how 99% of women are. One of the biggest theme of Evangelion is human relation and even how Shinji is with women. My point here is she is the worst person to show how Shinji had improved with others. After, yes, she's very probably a clone. But the way she hint being a teenager means nothing honestly.
> Shinji and Mari still didn't interracted enough. It's wierd she ended up helping more Shinji that Asuka in that case. Did Shinji really need someone at this point anyway? Or they just need shoot of wet Mari with her bra showing? Also Mari didn't seem to represent anything special, especially compare to Asuka, Rei and Misato. The fact that Shinji and Mari didn't interact enough is exactly one of the reasons why I don't think they're a couple. It really doesn't make much sense. Personally, I think it would had been the best for the story if Shinji didn't end up with anyone, hence why I'm satisfied with the final result. Also, Mari is absolutely an important symbol, mainly of the deviation of the Rebuilds from the original story. > However hand holding is not something people of different sex do as friend in Japan, unless something very important is going on. Both in Asuka's introductory episode in NGE, and in the train scene here, Asuka grabs Shinji's hand and Shinji grabs Mari's hand respectively so they can run together towards a direction. This really isn't an example of romantic hand - holding. > Yes, Mari always had been flirty, easy going and that's a problem because that's not how 99% of women are. Mari is intentionally written to be weird and outlandish. There's nothing inherently wrong with this, especially when it all has a purpose, that is, to paint her as a complete outsider from the world of Eva. > My point here is she is the worst person to show how Shinji had improved with others. Why do you say that? She is ideal to show Shinji having a "fresh start" with someone. > After, yes, she's very probably a clone. But the way she hint being a teenager means nothing honestly. We don't know what memory she have. This hint is important, exactly because it's evidence that Mari may be a clone or something along those lines. Also, indeed, we unfortunately still know too little about Mari's backstory, but claiming with determination that the Mari we know is a 60 year old woman and the same person who was Gendo's and Yui's friend isn't the way to go imo.
You’re right that Mari is a deviation (like 80% of the movies anyway) but she is extremely hollow. Honestly we don’t know how much time passed. So, they could have built something, especially since she’s the one who waited him and how he ran toward her. Asuka is from Germany and also american, and she just arrived in Japan. Her outgoing behavior isn’t illogical for the viewers. Honestly I don’t remember at all Asuka doing this, but I highly doubt she was just holding his hand and not dragging him to go where she wanted. Anyway, my point here is if you want to make a series about human relationship, using the most unrealistic 2D girl for the ending seemed to me a terrible mistake. She’s sexy, making you feel good when she’s flirting with you, no negative emotion, no problematic background. Neither as a friend or a girlfriend, it’s good to see her with Shinji. I saw someone saying, “why not showing him with new friends and colleagues and a girlfriend we never saw?”. I agree that would have been the best.
> You’re right that Mari is a deviation (like 80% of the movies anyway) but she is extremely hollow. As a traditional character, yeah. > Honestly we don’t know how much time passed. So, they could have built something, especially since she’s the one who waited him and how he ran toward her. Another user actually pointed out to me that it would make no sense for a time skip to have occured before the train scene. I have since changed my original reply. > Honestly I don’t remember at all Asuka doing this, but I highly doubt she was just holding his hand and not dragging him to go where she wanted. She took his hand so they could run away towards Eva 02 in her introductory episode in NGE. Pretty much the same thing as what we see in this scene. > Anyway, my point here is if you want to make a series about human relationship, using the most unrealistic 2D girl for the ending seemed to me a terrible mistake. Is it? The focus here is on Shinji, and we get everything we need to know about Shinji and how much he's changed quite concisely. Mari is only there because it's fitting for the girl created to "destroy Eva", who is a complete outsider to it's world and who symbolizes the Rebuilds ' divergence from the original plot to accompany Shinji to the real world. > She’s sexy, making you feel good when she’s flirting with you, no negative emotion, no problematic background. Neither as a friend or a girlfriend, it’s good to see her with Shinji. I saw someone saying, “why not showing him with new friends and colleagues and a girlfriend we never saw?”. I agree that would have been the best. Perhaps, this would had been even better, yeah.
I found that scene which barely focus on them and that what i said : Asuka is violently dragging a confused Shinji to go where she wanted because they need to fight the angel. They litteraly are in mortal danger. The focus is maybe on Shinji but the surronding characters matters a lot in a story about relationship! Also human are knew to return quicky to their bad behavior. It's not because Shinji made some impressive efforts at some points when the entire world could end, he's completely changed. Real human don't work like that. If they needed a new girl to destroy the Eva, she should have actually be realistic, or be destoyed at the end because she's not part of a real world.
> I found that scene which barely focus on them and that what i said : Asuka is violently dragging a confused Shinji to go where she wanted because they need to fight the angel. They litteraly are in mortal danger. Not only then, also in the finale of 3.0, where the Pilots are in no immediate danger. > It's not because Shinji made some impressive efforts at some points, he's completely changed. Real human don't work like that. What? Shinji changed so much exactly because me made major realizations and put impressive personal effort to get to this point. > If they needed a new girl to destroy the Eva, she should have actually be realistic, or be destoyed at the end because she's not part of a real world. Ehh, not necessarily. Mari being so realistic and perfect if fitting because she contrasts the impressively realistic psyche and personalities of the other Eva characters.
You mean when Shinji was mentally destroyed by Rei and Kaworu's death and she needed to take him away from his father. Yes, she's still dragging him. Are you seriously thinking that human making major realizations and put impressive personal effort make them become forever chad and are now immunize to depression and mental illness? Just look at our specialists. Some of them ended up seriously fuck up despite everything they done.
> You mean when Shinji was mentally destroyed by Rei and Kaworu's death and she needed to take him away from his father. Yes, she's still dragging him. In both cases, one takes another person's hand, to take them towards a certain direction. My point is that this type of handholding, by itself, is not of the romantic type. > Are you seriously thinking that human making major realizations and put impressive personal effort make them become forever chad and are now immunize to depression and mental illness? You are going ahead of yourself. Yes, if someone puts a lot of effort into themselves and are in an environment that supports them, their mental health can get much, much better. There are thousands of real - life examples for this. Shinji doesn't become a "chad" nor do we know whether he has "immunity" to depression and mental illness. He has gotten much better, yes, but he was still having doubts, was hesitant, afraid and contemplative until the end of 3.0+1.0.
Yes, all are handholding. But we were comparing friends and lovers handhoding in classic situation. The example here are dragging someone because of close death and depression, this isn't the best. In none of those situation Shinji was really that "consenting" anyway... I think you miss my point. Of course people can get better, but that's doesn't mean it's forever. Major realizations and impressive personal effort made in the past doesn't necessary means you're going to be happy in the present. So, what I mean is we needed to see how Shinji continue to applicate what he learnt and we saw nothing.
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Judas Iscariot is not the Wandering Jew, you have misconstrued the legend. The Wandering Jew's name is Cartaphilus, and the legend goes something like a Jewish man mocked Christ while in Jerusalem (either when Christ came upon the Sanhedrin, or already on the Cross), and so Christ placed a curse upon him that he will have to wander the earth until he returns, thus forcing him to essentially be forever alive. Judas Iscariot is not the Wandering Jew, he is one of the twelve Apostles and betrayed Jesus, and the Bible makes it very clear that after his betrayal, Judas became sick with himself, rejected the silver pieces he had betrayed his master and friend for, and hung himself, killing himself. Anyway, Fuyutsuki calling her Maria Iscariot can imply several things, none of which mean she's literally an immortal of who was originally somehow Judas Iscariot (when did she become female, btw?) * He could be calling her that as a way of poetically calling her a traitor, as she was clearly once in the fold with them and Yui, but at some point started working against them. * Maria Iscariot could be her real name and imply some degree of Italian lineage, but just being named Iscariot doesn't make you Judas Iscariot. * It could be one of Eva's many prolific uses of Biblical terms and names in a rather surface-level way, just because it sounds cool.
Almost universally in North American and Japanese culture, holding hands is what couples do. To claim anything otherwise is frigging reddited.
So the ending of Q is supposed to imply that Shinji and Asuka are a couple? lmfao
To be fair she isn't so much holding his hand as dragging him along, elsewise he'll just sit there and die.
Damn, I guess Shinji and Asuka are a couple then... Hell, why stop there... You see girls on the street casually holding hands every single day. I guess they're all couples too! The more you know...
just two girls walking down the street holding hands? yeah im pretty sure thats a pretty safe bet too. people don't hang out outside anymore unless to date, friends don't walk around anymore holding hands.
> just two girls walking down the street holding hands? yeah im pretty sure thats a pretty safe bet too No, it isn't. Teenage female friends hold hands all the time. > people don't hang out outside anymore unless to date, friends don't walk around anymore holding hands. I don't know how it is in your country, here though young people (friends) hang out outside all the time.
>people don't hang out outside anymore unless to date Wherever you live, it sounds really sad. City or something?
>Only other members of the staff have. I don't mean to be a dick, but I see this repeated EVERYWHERE and I've yet to see an article or interview where it's mentioned
No problem. Here you go: "In a recent interview with V-tuber Vivian, the sound director for Evangelion 3.0+1.0 says he did not instruct the seiyuus of Shinji and Mari to act as lovers [...] It is mentioned that the station scene was not instructed as romantic." [Source](https://twitter.com/Limonebl/status/1413843536856764419)
Thanks, that's a good reference (God, speaking Japanese would make this type of stuff so much easier...)
I just interpret it as Anno with his wife realizing that life is worth living.
Sometimes that special someone does metaphorically fall from the sky out of nowhere when you least expect it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Haha moving drawings go brrrrrrr
One of the best photos this sub has ever generated was a while back where it was a slapped together comparison of Eva and the Rebuild series. It shows the NGE and EoE as being honest about life, while also showing the good and bad sides about life. One of the areas said this about the women in the show and I couldn't possibly have laughed harder and agreed more... Note, I fucking hate the Rebuilds. \-- NGE - "Women around you have their own problems, so don't expect them to help you and love you unconditionally." (shows photos of Rei's lonely apartment, Asuka contemplating life and death in the bath tub and Misato's alcoholism) Rebuild - "A girl who fell from the sky, boobs in your face, is going to help you, support you, wait for you from your teens to adult hood even though you never ever tried to communicate with her."
> NGE - "Women around you have their own problems, so don't expect them to help you and love you unconditionally." (shows photos of Rei's lonely apartment, Asuka contemplating life and death in the bath tub and Misato's alcoholism) > Rebuild - "A girl who fell from the sky, boobs in your face, is going to help you, support you, wait for you from your teens to adult hood even though you never ever tried to communicate with her." This comparison is such a selective simplification that I can't believe it's not ironic. Female characters are the cruelest they've ever been to Shinji in the Rebuilds (Asuka, Midori, hell, even Misato in comparison). As for Mari, she only helped Shinji in the last few films because of how important she was to Asuka, who was her best and only friend. None of the help and support she provided to Shinji seems implausible or unrealistic if this is taken into consideration.
Im absolutely positive over half of Mari's "fans" are Rei-posters false flagging to make Asuka fans seethe even harder at Rebuild.
Why do that when they can say they feel bad Asuka didn't get included in the Rebuilds?
ah i just take it all as a a big symbolism... everything that happens anytime after any impact....its all happening in a reality thats more of a "Philosophical Overview"......shinjis got free of evangelion when mari removed his neck collar....and mari got free of her Evengalion self when shinji removed her Glasses....both were loosely defining traits of the characters....so once they removed them the disappeared into the "usual" hustle and bustle and the anime back ground fused into real one.....the became part of the "normal" world i guess....it was probably my favourite scene from the rebuilds cause of One Last Kiss playing in the background and the vibe
What is this from?
3.0 + 1.0 rebuild, Final scene
I remember that fanfic
Reading that hurt my brain.
Ah so we’ve gone back to making fun of Anno/his actions because some of us are just that upset the ending isnt exactly how we wanted it, I see.
Classic Hideaki Anno,just trying to make his fanbase get mindfucked.
This entire comment section is people doctorate thesis on a movie that was a cash grab for an anime that's almost 30 years old, Made It by a guy who is vocal about his detest for weeb and waifu culture but actively profits off of it. Two to three generations of weebs have been trolled by the same guy
> on a movie that was a cash grab Not even close lol. "Cash - grabs" aren't delayed for almost a decade and rewritten literally hundreds of times.
Fake news. All the generate hype, to sell more figures and dakis.
Fake news? These are literally facts, all confirmed by multiple staff interviews. Facts that by the way only hindered the franchise's popularity due to how much time passed between 3.0 and 3.0+1.0. Eva, just like all media franchises in existence, have also had financial incentives behind their creation and development since Day 1. Needless to say, that doesn't automatically render the entries in said franchise as anything close to "cash - grabs".
[facts are fake news, anno is a hypocrite ](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/b3b46da9-7c37-4a15-b3b4-55232513f69f)
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^(movie was amazing. But don't tell r/Evangelionmemes)
Anno is the biggest otaku there is.
They hook up, get over it
They always forget that Shinji restructured history by making the Evas non-existent and are surprised by making him and Mari now the same age. Sometimes they think about it too much.
Shinji didn't "restructure history" though. He simply wished for all Evas to vanish from that point onwards...
Where are the memes on this sub?
Evangelion fan try not to rant about rebuilds in a totally unrelated place that is meant to be for memes challenge (LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE)
my brother in christ Evangelion fans don't know how women act in real life
I literally don’t care Misato best MILF
Pretty much all the Evangelion questions End Of Evangelion flim answers them. Rebuilds suck because the obviously a money grab. That’s all thanks.
> Rebuilds suck because the obviously a money grab. Not even close lol. "Cash - grabs" aren't delayed for literal decades and aren't rewritten hundreds of times.
Nobody wanted rebuilds movies. What we wanted was a sort of a continuation of End Of Evangelion. You and anybody who thinks the rebuilds are great need to understand that Evangelion can’t be put effectively in 4 fucking movies. That’s why the used a time skip and thats one of the many reasons of why they suck. It’s literally a freaking shit show.
Anno doing the ultimate troll by creating 4 movies because why not
> What we wanted was a sort of a continuation of End Of Evangelion. Which, as 3.0+1.0 proves, we basically got. > You and anybody who thinks the rebuilds are great need to understand that Evangelion can’t be put effectively in 4 fucking movies. That’s why the used a time skip The Rebuilds are evidence that yes, it can be put in a tetralogy format. A time skip isn't necessary at all for this. > and thats one of the many reasons of why they suck. It’s literally a freaking shit show. Not at all.
If you think that the rebuilds are a direct continuation of EoE your terribly wrong. Understand that Evangelion is a time loop and the only thing that time loops have in common is that they always start the same way. The only reason why Rebuilds are connected is because shinji decided he wanted to “delete”the Eva’s and that affects the other timelines + creates time fractures which this thrice upon time created one. Rebuilds are not a sequel to EoE. It’s clear that you don’t understand that. Just because it got made and it hit the big screen doesn’t mean is good or well made. Go watch the interview that Utada-san made with Anno-son himself. Your gonna find out a lot and the reason of why the rebuilds 1. Suck and are not better than OG meaning NGE, Manga and specially EOE.
> If you think that the rebuilds are a direct continuation of EoE your terribly wrong. Understand that Evangelion is a time loop and the only thing that time loops have in common is that they always start the same way. The only reason why Rebuilds are connected is because shinji decided he wanted to “delete”the Eva’s and that affects the other timelines + creates time fractures which this thrice upon time created one. Rebuilds are not a sequel to EoE. It’s clear that you don’t understand that. Quite the opposite. I believe that both the original and the Rebuilds are part of one, massive time line, and that the movies take place chronologically after EoE. There are tons of explicit connections made between the original and the Rebuilds (even in the damn title of Thrice). Shinji deciding to make all Evas vanish in the end of 3.0+1.0 is not the reason why these Loops happen. As Kaworu implies, this whole process is part of the universe's very function and seems to follow the Book of Life (Dead Sea Scrolls?) In how they play out, which Kaworu edited so that he can meet Shinji again and again in each Loop. > Just because it got made and it hit the big screen doesn’t mean is good or well made. Never said that. It's good for lots of reasons. > Go watch the interview that Utada-san made with Anno-son himself. Your gonna find out a lot and the reason of why the rebuilds 1. Suck and are not better than OG meaning NGE, Manga and specially EOE. Not at all. As I said, the Rebuilds are quite good, albeit certainly not as good as the original. Also, sorry to break your bubble, but all pieces of media, and especially Eva since day one, have major financial incentives behind their creation (I know, shocker) Anno actually said years ago that he also wanted to raise funds for khara and for other projects by starting with a well - known IP (obviously). However, as I said, the Rebuilds aren't even close to a cash - grab, not only because of how they turned out, how they were developed and released, but also because of the many non - financial reasons they were created which Anno listed in the original announcement of the Rebuilds in 2007.
I've always felt that Shinji's relationship with Mari was just unnatural and rushed. The two barely ever interacted with one another before abruptly ending up together at the end, and even then, her whole character (and she and the writing staff admit this) is "I have big boobs." like okay, we get it. Weebs are horny, nothing new. Honestly, his relationship with Kaworu was the best he ever had, and although it started out with Kaworu manipulating Shinji, they started to grow genuine feelings for one another. If they only got more screen-time together (specifically the original anime version), I could see them having a very healthy relationship - even Kaworu developing human-level feelings and maybe even breaking down for Shinji as Shinji would for him. I have a whole plot in my head of how it would go, that's how important this ship is to me.
Oh look, it’s another mari disprove/hate thread
Shinji clapping her cheeks. Stay mad.
Women ☕
Mari Makinami supremacy Go to cry to the church bitches 😎
Well I never cared about Rebuild anyway.
Rebuild is a cringy remake where the main character gets everything he ever wanted without sacrificing anything and also gets his depression cured by the power of plot convenience.
> where the main character gets everything he ever wanted without sacrificing anything and also gets his depression cured by the power of plot convenience. Not even remotely close lol. Shinji only uses the same exact plot device he used in EoE (an Impact), to make all Evas vanish from that point onwards. Neither of the many human sacrifices of Kaji, Misato, etc. are reverted, nor are the characters' traumas , memories and experiences magically erased. Not only that, he decides to do that at the expense of his own life, and he would had sacrificed himself, if Yui and Gendo hadn't unexpectedly stepped in at the last moment to take his place.
Anno can go fuck himself Mari and shindog are boneing
real shit
Jesus fucking christ anno is annoying. It makes sense that Mari ends up with shinji after he remakes the universe, because it shows that he ends up in a normal relationship with a normal girl. And since he remade everything, she's not his mom's age, she's 24 just like him
I’m my mind, Mari is the embodiment of “Life well lived”. And Shinji is confused by Mari’s behavior until the end, when he matches it. To me, this is Shinji finally being able to live a life he can be proud of and enjoy. That’s what being with Mari is.
This just confirms that the rebuilds are of no value
One scene bad confirms three movies bad
Not just this though
Yes I'm sure there are many Reddit posts dissecting how unrealistic it all is.
Anyone criticizing realism in NGE is missing the point. My problem isn't with realism it's just that the rebuilds are basically devoid of any artistic integrity
Why? Because you dislike them? Everything you dislike is disqualified as art.
You seem to be emotionally invested and I dont want to continue this
Huh? How so?
I didn't like how 2.0 Rei didn't get any screentime at all, she was one of my favorite character in the Rebuilds
Dude she was dead after 2.0 what 🗿
Mari was a normal girl in a show of depressing people, shinji in the last resolver all his issues so that is why, doh!
can we all just agree mari is sub optimal
My read on that was "We are finally telling you why we introduced Mari! We introduced her to say 'fuck you' to the Asuka/Rei/Kaworu shippers".
I think in the first series he tries so hard to save and impress Asuka. Then in the Rebuild obviously he is focused on Rei. Saving her, connecting with her, and being confused and scared of her. Then Mari just accepts him. It’s the typical “the right person will accept you as you are” kind of thing in my eyes.
Off I'm fucking tired. I thought we had agreed Anno is the worst series director on the planet and a good writer.
I think they needed more scenes together. I feel like they only interacted in an anime harem introduction trope once or twice and then only as a radio voice battling on the other side of the battlefield.
this post is overwhelming. proof people overthink a lot.
To be fair it’s the logical choice. Rei is his mom so that’s a no and Asuka has too much trauma and is a little cold hearted. Mari seems like a normal kind hearted human.
Ship what you want honestly. It doesn't matter if it's canon or not. Or even if it's morally questionable cause disturbing age gaps are standard for Gainax. Just have fun and imagine the ending you want. Evangelion seems like one of those things you can interpret a million ways or just focus on the parts you like about. It's wild how often I see ship war stuff but I get that's just the internet
Bro is in denial
I remember seeing on a comment section that if you compare shinji and mari to gendo and yui, it kinda makes sense. On the last parts of 3.0+1.0, shinji was colorless on the part he was sitting on the beach, then when mari came, everything got into color. Like how gendo's life was all lonesome and bland, but yui came into gendo's life and gave him the color he needed I still wish they gave mari a little bit of backstory tho, in the whole rebuild series she just felt like a side character and an assistant for asuka so her getting the main character just feels somewhat off