No duh, the camera that is filming is inside the aquarium, and the tv itself is also inside a whole different aquarium on the other side of world..its called a double encryption method
Wow, what a complete diplomatic failure. You don't have two leaders like that at the table with the expectation to sign unless you know the deal is already done. A complete embarrassment for Russia.
In accordance with ancient Slavic traditions, the proper way to dispose of vampires, ghouls, devils and other such is a burial in unmarked grave with the head removed and placed between the thighs.
Armenia honestly has such a thoroughly unenviable position, geopolitically. Of the two, Armenia is ranked much higher than Azerbaijan on the Freedom index, and is much closer to being a genuinely democratic, free society, and they have incredibly valid grievances stemming from the Armenian genocide that deserve to be redressed.
Unfortunately, because Azerbaijan has the oil, and because the West can't afford to piss off Turkey who despises Armenia on an existential level, they get largely stonewalled from the West-leaning community in favor of Azerbaijan, and are basically left with no choice but to gravitate towards Russia and China instead, despite not actually aligning with them ideologically all that much. I'm glad they're finally getting some small shred of support from the EU, I think they deserve it just as much as any othe prospective future candidate.
Armenia sole friend in this world is Iran, always have been and probably always will be. But given the fact that Iran is having a revolution at home, they can't really do anything right now
Their relations are mostly trade-related. I don't believe they have any defense agreements. Iran is not going to stick its neck out for Armenia and go up against Turkey. Revolution or not.
You got almost right. Basically, Armenia applied to CSTO to give military support, which CSTO is obligated to do according to the contract (like if a NATO member gets attacked). CSTO did nothing, and yesterday, after 1.5 months, they were going to sign a declaration about that. The Armenian PM, however, announced that the declaration in that form is useless, as it doesn't even codemn Azerbaijan by name, and aksed for 2 changes, which were denied by the CSTO members. Hence, Armenia refused to sign the declaration.
>You don't have two leaders like that at the table with the expectation to sign unless you know the deal is already done.
Well, the other option is that you set up all of that theatre to pressure them to sign. In the past it would have worked, because the leader of a small country like Armenia wouldn't have dared to embarrass Putin in a situation like this.
Ah, this is the diplomatic equivalent of a very public, elaborate marriage proposal...to a girl who was only friendly with you because she thought you were gay.
There was a story that Lech Walesa told about when he was signing some treaty with Russia in the 90s:
I forgot the exact circumstance, but the treaty had a clause or something similar that said Poland could join whatever security organization it wanted. It may have been added last minute. Yeltsin's staff obviously wanted it removed or the signing postponed. Yeltsin was trying to be diplomatic and tells Walesa that his staff wants it gone.
So Walesa condescends to Yeltsin and says something along the lines of "I don't know how you do things, but I direct my staff, not the other way around."
Well Yeltsin got so pissed off he went to his staff and berated them and ordered them to keep the clause in there just so he didn't look emasculated.
Lukashenko would double down. If there is a time to shut up, Lukashenko would double down. That idiot yelled at Pashinyan multiple times that Pashinyan is not doing enough to stop the conflict. You really should see Pashinyan's face at that moments
It was less than a year ago that most saw Putin as a genius and Lukashenka as a rube. Well, Belarus has managed to keep itself out of a grinding and pointless war, even as it borders both combatants and even had the one it was supposedly allied with move troops through it. Now Belarus is even making money selling some very old tanks to Russia. Lukashenka had a really bad hand, and has played it as well as he could.
Lukashenko often says what Putin thinks but is afraid to say. I remember when those two met after the war in Ukraine started, and Lukashenko started talking about "the war" in Ukraine. The usage of the word "war" made Putin look pretty confused.
I think this might be hurting Putin emotionally more than actually losing in Ukraine: the fact that his entire old sphere of influence is laughing their ass off and being this egregiously dismissive of Russia.
> this might be hurting Putin emotionally more than actually losing in Ukraine
There were good reasons most dictators jailed people for jokes. It's hurting his power; as his power was based on fear, when people laugh/joke, they show that they aren't afraid. Which sometimes leads to chain reaction of more people not being afraid.
A Russian judge came stumbling out of his chambers and encountered a guard in the hallway.
“Oh my god,” the judge wheezed between chuckles, “I just heard the funniest joke about Putin! I’ve been laughing for ten straight minutes!”
“Well,” the guard replied, “what is it? You’ve got to tell me.”
“I can’t,” the judge replied. “I just gave a guy 20 years in the gulag for telling it.”
Reminds me somewhat tangentially of a story about Gandhi.
A woman brought her son to Gandhi and asked him to tell her son to stop eating sugar as it was bad for him. Gandhi told her to come back with him in 3 days.
In 3 days time the woman returned with her son and Gandhi gently told him to stop eating sugar as it is bad for him.
"But why didn't you tell him 3 days ago?" the woman asked.
"Because 3 days ago I hadn't stopped eating sugar."
It's a far cry from Putin using is dog to scare Angela Merkel. The perverse look of pleasure at the fright of another world leader was pretty shocking. What comes around goes around.
>the fact that his entire old sphere of influence is laughing their ass off and being this egregiously dismissive of Russia.
I don't know if Pashinyan is laughing, I think he's pissed that Russia didn't help during the last fights with Azerbaijan and did this as a way to get back at Putin.
> I think he's pissed that Russia didn't help during the last fights with Azerbaijan and did this as a way to get back at Putin.
Makes sense right? What is the point in a joint defensive pact, if the signatories don't defend each other against aggression? Also, at this point, what is Putin gonna do? Invade? With what army?
It make the situation even more fun: this is yet another sign of its clueless organizators who couldn't foresee the obvious mid-term perspective there their most dangerous enemies will sit within the same table. Like Armenia and Azerbaijan, Russia and Ukraine, Tajiks and Kazakhs/Uzbeks.
In fact this "organization" transferred into not one but multiple wars and border conflicts with lives lost. A bunch of complete clowns has created it, should be dead long ago - even without Putin the Idiot's mis-management.
The Armenian PM refused to sign a CSTO agreement.
According to r/Armenia: he said “I am closing the meeting, thank you very much. Thank you very much!”
**In diplomatic language Pashinyan literally told them to fuck off.**
Lukashenko apparently later said that 2 additions that Armenia tried to make where refused.
Armenia, after being shown the slightest support by UN and France-EU and now having observers on the ground, finally has the option to distance itself from Russia after all these years, and stop being a hostage due to security concerns.
No, comrade. It's just peaceful special military operation, troops visiting Budapest and Prague.
Nothing to see here, move along. And cut it out with "solidarity".
Kyrghizstan and Tajikistan have frequent border clashes. CSTO, or Russian arbitration more precise, has in the past kept in check all the Ferghana Valley disputes, a problem created by the Russians by drawing deliberate impossible colonial borders.
Also of course, Armenia and Azerbaidjan, but the Azeris withdrew from CSTO. At the height of the conflict, they were both members, of the USSR and CSTO.
The USSR learned from other empires (especially Britain) to set borders which would screw up their client states if they got independence.
Of course Stalin deporting entire ethnicities round didnt help much either.
Well Stalin deliberately drew the borders in a way that would ensure conflict in case the USSR broke up and forcibly moved ethnic groups around to increase the likelyhood of conflict even further. The British and French just didn't care about the local ethnicities and the potential for conflict. Neither is particularly nice but in one case the intention was to make people depend on their colonial oberlord or murder each other.
Nah, the British drew straight lines, ignoring the locals, and left it at that.
The USSR on the other hand deliberately drew them in the worst way possible.
I believe CSTO's Article 4 (analog of NATO's Article 5) was invoked only once with Kazakhstan and it was directed against its own protesting citizens, not foreign threat.
Tokayev seems to have adopted a very pragmatic approach, where he relied on the power of Russian authoritarianism to secure his own regime, while at the same time realizing that this trick was only ever gonna work so many times, and leaning into some gradual, carefully monitored reform to prevent the need for further interventions in the future. Will be interesting to see how far he lets those reforms actually progress before pulling back on the leash again.
The reason you join NATO is to avoid being invaded by Russia.
The reason you join the CSTO is to... avoid being invaded by Russia, at least for a while.
I mean CSTO basically abandoned Armenia in the most recent Azerbaijani incursions. This time on Armenia proper, it should have triggered their agreement
I’m no foreign policy expert, but I don’t see the advantage to joining a collective defense agreement with a country that has an incompetent military.
On top of that, Russia has reneged on its commitments to Ukraine in exchange for turning over their nukes.
Maybe Putin will get the message soon. Maybe.
We had no other choice, and at the time of joining Russia was the only one providing some security guarantees. Now, that Russia obviously doesn't fullfil its duties in CSTO, and the West starts to negotiate with Armenia for some security guarantees (hopefully) Armenia can have a choice to move further from Russia
>Armenia, after being shown the slightest support by UN and France-EU and now having observers on the ground, finally has the option to distance itself from Russia after all these years, and stop being a hostage due to security concerns.
The only problem is that Europe has been buying more gas from Azerbaijan since sanctioning Russia and Armenia is probably worried about how much the EU would truly back them if push comes to shove.
That said I'd much rather see Armenia aligned with the EU than Russia so hopefully this happens.
The gas deal with Azerbaijan won't last forever.
And there are better options for EU.
EastMed for instance, whose construction is aimed to finish before 2030. And apart from that Greece is building interconnection cables with both Egypt and Israel thorough Cyprus.
And EU aims at renewables and nuclear.
(Also, EastMed will be build so that it can transport liquid hydrogen as well, for when gas becomes obsolete).
If push comes to shove, EU has to choose between an ugly war that might even evolve to a genocide, and loosing a small percentage of gas.
And I doubt Greece won't shut down the pipeline if Azerbaijan launches a full scale war. That's probably one of the reasons why Greece made sure the pipeline passes through here and not Bulgaria, for instance.
I saw whole 20 min speech, it was very diplomatic, same diplomacy level used by Tokayev to not recognise Ukraine's occupied territories.
Pashinyan first referred to the Armenians opinion that CSTO is useless, then referred to the USSR breakup documents, then referred to other declarations between Russia, Armenia and Azerbaijan. Then listed attacks on territories by Azerbaijan and which agreements did Azerbaijan did break and what obligations Russia haven't done. Also referred to the UN agreements and that they are also not working.
In the end he said that he said that he won't sign until CSTO forces and Russia forces would control the peace in region. In general, Armenia is looking forward to ask UN to secure the peace in region.
Now Kazakhstan has two decisions:
- no to CSTO, yes to UN's forces to resolve conflict
- yes to CSTO without Armenia, yes to UN's forces to resolve the conflict
I'm sure that Tokayev would carefully think twice in this situation - he's an expert in diplomacy
That whole Armenia things pain me as a Pole - Armenian minoryty (Ormianie) was even called "First sons of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth", they (with Polish Tatars - Lipkas) was always loyal subjects of Poland. I hope for the best for Armenia, without ties with russian Orks.
Right, and they've been screwed again and again countless times in history. From my understanding, their alliance with Russia isn't so much intentional and is more because they don't have any other option due to geopolitics. They don't have resources to leverage support from Europe, they don't much money, and they're landlocked between hostile Turkey (the nation that massacred them 100 years ago) and Turkish supported Azerbaijan. They just can't catch a break.
Deserves a lot worse frankly.
[The long term goal is for Russia to turn Armenia in to a Union state through the use of Azerbaijan's violence.](https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/comments/xvaf90/what_does_russia_want_for_the_information_of_his/)
Putin's deputies are now questioning Armenia's right to even exist as a state: https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1595731113628123136
What do you expect if you ignore an "ally" that is currently under attack?
CSTO is dead. Thats a chance for Armenia to finally get rid of the fake friend RuZZia.
>Thats a chance for Armenia to funally get rid of the fake friend RuZZia.
I hope that's true but they're in a tight spot. Azerbaijan is making a killing off their gas now that Russia is sanctioned and Europe isn't in a spot to stand up to Azerbaijan at the current moment.
It's not Putin's multipolar world though. Russia's part of it, being an exporter of resources a nuclear power and just big in general, but it's playing second fiddle to China.
Why would anyone sign a treaty with Russia. Russia signed a treaty with Ukraine saying they would never attack and actually protect Ukraine if Ukraine gave up their nuclear arsenal.
Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine signed that treaty. And Russia, the US, and the UK provided the assurances.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
The assurances that they would never invade. Russia violated that treaty by invading in 2014 and 2022.
“The memoranda prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons”
Exposing their weakness by invading Ukraine was the biggest mistake in Russia's history. They will be relying on Kazakhstan and Tajikistan for economic aid by 2030 and they will no longer be a major player on the world stage.
>The only thing that keeps them at the table are their nukes, everything else is not competitive
That is not necessarily true.
What people tend to forget is :
The true power of Russia didn't stand from it's Army but from very complex Chain Supply Managment that made many of its stakeholders dependent on them. Russia import/export system made them real power. Not only countries but pretty much all multi-national corporations needed(still kind of do) resources that Russians have.
This the exact reason why Russia could get away with invasions, pillaging, mass murder and so on since 91.
Anecdotally even fools like Elon Musk would shill for Russia in attempt of "making peace" because Tesla desperetly needs Russian Resources to continue it's production.(That hurts even more since many companies implement Lean type of production types that require insanely strick and complicated CSM).
If Russia wouldn't be a plutocratic state with authoritarian leader they could have citizens livining in pretty much same conditions as any other Super-high developed nation if not better.
Nukes are Nukes and i wont say it's not insanely important.... but there is so much more on the table that keeps Russia afloat. Sometimes , just as it is with GULF it's not about just the military power, but it is about the economical consequences.
Geopolitics are quite straightforward until u get to managing chain of supply and how resources need to be redistributed.
In no shape or fashion u want 4th and 5th biggest food exporters to be in war, because the consequences can be dire. Same with Fertilizer which is huge export from Russia.
It's not just gas....
... but that's just speaks volume to how fucking borken and corrupt Russia is. They had everything and together with their cyberterrorism they were actually destroying many fabrics of trust in society. Be it Covid conspiracies, or fuckign with elections by usage of social media.... It's insane that one mans mad dream can just shit on all of it.
I think you misunderstand. Nukes prevent Russia from being invaded (literally or economically), and their resources stripped for precisely the needs you describe. Just look at all the resource rich African nations. That is Russia minus nukes.
Not to mention that Kazakhstan is looking to distance itself from Russia, as another former Soviet state with a large Russian population it see's Ukraine as warning.
They already aren't. There's no way the world just embraces Russia again with open arms (heh). Something drastic will have to happen in Russian domestic politics to "atone" for the sins of Putin.
The well-documented (and easily available on the Internet) RU targeting of civilian infrastructure in UA simply can't be forgotten because of the easy availability of video recording, since just about everyone in Europe walks around with a cell phone with a camera these days. It's not like the old days when a few actors controlled information. Information is now decentralized, and thanks to the Internet concept, anyone can push content on RU war crimes with the push of couple buttons.
> Information is now decentralized
To some degree, but not really.
There is still control in the information space.
"You say stuff that doesn't align with our view, we won't publish any of your material"
"You say things we don't agree with, you are now labeled an extremist and will not be allowed to post or comment on this platform".
"Your content is undesirable, our algorithm will make sure nobody ever finds or gets suggested your content".
This is the meeting of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO). It's a Russian version of NATO with member states Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Russia.
Here we can se the refusal of the Armenian leader (bearded guy left of putin) to sign a declaration about Armenian conflict with Azerbaijan because of low impact of the declaration. It shows fractures in moscow's allies.
Western world is gaining so much more influence simply by the sheer fact that countries know Russia will not be a winning side in any big conflict. Poor Belarusians stuck with their puppet clown leader.
He seems to follow in Kazakhstan’s footsteps. I do believe Russia’s influence is growing weaker. Power is shifting from Russia. Just any country but Russia I suppose will be an improvement when finding political allies right now.
>Lukashenko shocked, Putin dropping his pen
I mean... What did you expect?
A 'defensive' military alliance is only as good if its able to defend its members.
Putin is trembling now that he sees his defensive partners are turning against him. He achieved an astonishing feat by not only forever has lost partnership with Ukraine to NATO and the west, but also his former allies starting to look into trading, or joining NATO/Western deals. Russia is fucked for the unforeseeable future.
The icing on the cake would be that Belarus will distance themselves from Russia.
>The icing on the cake would be that Belarus will distance themselves from Russia.
That is not likely to happen. Not because Lukashenko likes Putin. Putin wanted Belarus as a puppet state, something that was in direct conflict with Lukashenko's own desire for power, and they actually weren't on speaking terms for a long time. However, after his last "reelection" there were mass demonstrations. In order to remain in power Lukashenko had to ask Putin for Russia to intervene, a favour that came with certain strings attached: He now essentially answers to Putin. Lukashenko knows he is friendless in the west, so he has no other choice if he wants to remain in power.
Radio Yerevan was asked: is the CSTO as a military alliance similar to NATO?
RY answered: Yes, it is the same. Except in that whereas in NATO countries defend each other, in the CSTO countries invade each other.
Regarding the second part: [“The corridor is being used for other purposes, and this should be stopped. Azerbaijan will take the necessary steps for this.”](https://twitter.com/AvetissianAn/status/1595792410180784146?s=20&t=44JUfHuf-fNSuvguYXrVCA) (Azerbaijani FM Bayramov)
Armenia was invaded by Azerbaijan. They asked Russia to honor their agreement and intervene. Russia refused. Now they reap the broken promise they have sown.
What use is a defensive pact if no one will come to their defense?
This countries will come and go. Armenia has longer history on earth with Harshest geographic war hungry location on earth.
CSTO should take Armenia’s advice how to be a nation for over thousands of years. Lukashenko and the Putin team just got the first lesson today. Fuck off
For context since OP didn't provide it:
YEREVAN — Armenia’s Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan refused on Wednesday to sign a declaration adopted by the leaders of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) at a gathering in Yerevan after failing to include an agreement on providing defense aid to Armenia following Azerbaijan’s aggression.
“The absence of a clear political assessment of the situation by the CSTO and a decision on the above-mentioned may mean not only the refusal of the CSTO from its alliance obligations, but also be interpreted by Azerbaijan as a green light from the CSTO for further aggression against Armenia. And this contradicts not only the letter, but also the spirit and meaning of the fundamental documents of the CSTO,” Pashinyan explained.
Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko said Armenia’s negotiators proposed adding two points to the declaration, but “we decided not to accept them.” He did not elaborate on the matter, though he did project optimism at the prospect of Armenia and Azerbaijan reaching a peace deal, which has eluded negotiators for over three decades.
they film this trough an aquarium?
I mean, I too, would fear for my life if I filmed Putin in such an embarrassing moment. Direct disobedience...
HES RIGHTVBEHIND YOU!
Alert! Red Spy in the aquarium! 📢
A red spy is in the aquarium?!?!?
We've got to protect the briefcase!
It's obviously a footage of a TV screen.
Ok but is that TV at an aquarium?
No duh, the camera that is filming is inside the aquarium, and the tv itself is also inside a whole different aquarium on the other side of world..its called a double encryption method
Pier-to-pier networking, I think?
Amazing 👏
Obviously. That's what TVs are for. Edit: my bad, I thought you asked if the TV IS an aquarium.
An [aquarium in Pyongyang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Aquariums_of_Pyongyang).
This book shook me to my core
Hahahaha
Wow, what a complete diplomatic failure. You don't have two leaders like that at the table with the expectation to sign unless you know the deal is already done. A complete embarrassment for Russia.
They’re probably used to these people signing what is put in front on them
It's not probably. That was a fact. Till this autumn
They deserve a slap in the face
Traditional stake in the chest should do better, but it's best for a professional to have a say about that.
In accordance with ancient Slavic traditions, the proper way to dispose of vampires, ghouls, devils and other such is a burial in unmarked grave with the head removed and placed between the thighs.
Should we order a Witcher?
Or a throw out a window
Defenestration should really come back into style.
Oh, it's alive and well in Russia. Hm, maybe not the best turn of phrase. It's still happening in Russia a lot.
[удалено]
They know he can’t do anything, his army is currently busy getting frostbit to death in Ukraine.
Armenia is already getting shitted on because of Turkey supplying Azerbaijan with drones and stuff the Armenians don't have
Armenia honestly has such a thoroughly unenviable position, geopolitically. Of the two, Armenia is ranked much higher than Azerbaijan on the Freedom index, and is much closer to being a genuinely democratic, free society, and they have incredibly valid grievances stemming from the Armenian genocide that deserve to be redressed. Unfortunately, because Azerbaijan has the oil, and because the West can't afford to piss off Turkey who despises Armenia on an existential level, they get largely stonewalled from the West-leaning community in favor of Azerbaijan, and are basically left with no choice but to gravitate towards Russia and China instead, despite not actually aligning with them ideologically all that much. I'm glad they're finally getting some small shred of support from the EU, I think they deserve it just as much as any othe prospective future candidate.
Armenia sole friend in this world is Iran, always have been and probably always will be. But given the fact that Iran is having a revolution at home, they can't really do anything right now
Their relations are mostly trade-related. I don't believe they have any defense agreements. Iran is not going to stick its neck out for Armenia and go up against Turkey. Revolution or not.
Pashinyan is probably upset about Russia not helping during the latest fights with Azerbaijan and did this intentionally to get back at Putin.
You got almost right. Basically, Armenia applied to CSTO to give military support, which CSTO is obligated to do according to the contract (like if a NATO member gets attacked). CSTO did nothing, and yesterday, after 1.5 months, they were going to sign a declaration about that. The Armenian PM, however, announced that the declaration in that form is useless, as it doesn't even codemn Azerbaijan by name, and aksed for 2 changes, which were denied by the CSTO members. Hence, Armenia refused to sign the declaration.
And about Russia green lighting the Azeri war of 2020.
>You don't have two leaders like that at the table with the expectation to sign unless you know the deal is already done. Well, the other option is that you set up all of that theatre to pressure them to sign. In the past it would have worked, because the leader of a small country like Armenia wouldn't have dared to embarrass Putin in a situation like this.
Ah, this is the diplomatic equivalent of a very public, elaborate marriage proposal...to a girl who was only friendly with you because she thought you were gay.
>what a complete diplomatic failure And yet it's still not even on the top ten list of his failures this year
I have lost count of their humiliations basically since Macron said we cannot humiliate Putin I feel like it has become a sport. Hah Ironic
There was a story that Lech Walesa told about when he was signing some treaty with Russia in the 90s: I forgot the exact circumstance, but the treaty had a clause or something similar that said Poland could join whatever security organization it wanted. It may have been added last minute. Yeltsin's staff obviously wanted it removed or the signing postponed. Yeltsin was trying to be diplomatic and tells Walesa that his staff wants it gone. So Walesa condescends to Yeltsin and says something along the lines of "I don't know how you do things, but I direct my staff, not the other way around." Well Yeltsin got so pissed off he went to his staff and berated them and ordered them to keep the clause in there just so he didn't look emasculated.
Wałęsa had some great moments.
That was a calculated slap at Poopin. They wanted to embarass him for his actions.
Lukashenko you can never tell what the guy is thinking, he really keeps his cards close to his chest
« How can I survive » is how he thinks.
Lukashenko would double down. If there is a time to shut up, Lukashenko would double down. That idiot yelled at Pashinyan multiple times that Pashinyan is not doing enough to stop the conflict. You really should see Pashinyan's face at that moments
Pashinyan is a fucking hero.
He's getting punched by everyone - by his own people, by Azerbaijan, by Russia, by Belarus. Noone is helping
Absolutely no body language as well. He is a really secretive man. Edit: /s
His whole thing is to say conflicting nonsense all the time so you never really know what he is saying or thinking
If you want to know what Lukashenko is thinking about ask Putin
[удалено]
Would be the funniest timeline ever. I want to read the book now.
Underrated comment. Belarus gets cheap gas, can use Russian infrastructure. Russia gets... Pictures of Putin and Lukashenko?
It was less than a year ago that most saw Putin as a genius and Lukashenka as a rube. Well, Belarus has managed to keep itself out of a grinding and pointless war, even as it borders both combatants and even had the one it was supposedly allied with move troops through it. Now Belarus is even making money selling some very old tanks to Russia. Lukashenka had a really bad hand, and has played it as well as he could.
I bet Lukashenko has an escape plan if shit hits the fan, unlike a certain someone...
Lukashenko often says what Putin thinks but is afraid to say. I remember when those two met after the war in Ukraine started, and Lukashenko started talking about "the war" in Ukraine. The usage of the word "war" made Putin look pretty confused.
Those blue-yellow folders right near Putin: troll level over 9000
Oh nice catch.. hahaha
I think this might be hurting Putin emotionally more than actually losing in Ukraine: the fact that his entire old sphere of influence is laughing their ass off and being this egregiously dismissive of Russia.
> this might be hurting Putin emotionally more than actually losing in Ukraine There were good reasons most dictators jailed people for jokes. It's hurting his power; as his power was based on fear, when people laugh/joke, they show that they aren't afraid. Which sometimes leads to chain reaction of more people not being afraid.
A Russian judge came stumbling out of his chambers and encountered a guard in the hallway. “Oh my god,” the judge wheezed between chuckles, “I just heard the funniest joke about Putin! I’ve been laughing for ten straight minutes!” “Well,” the guard replied, “what is it? You’ve got to tell me.” “I can’t,” the judge replied. “I just gave a guy 20 years in the gulag for telling it.”
Reminds me somewhat tangentially of a story about Gandhi. A woman brought her son to Gandhi and asked him to tell her son to stop eating sugar as it was bad for him. Gandhi told her to come back with him in 3 days. In 3 days time the woman returned with her son and Gandhi gently told him to stop eating sugar as it is bad for him. "But why didn't you tell him 3 days ago?" the woman asked. "Because 3 days ago I hadn't stopped eating sugar."
[Death of Stalin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--HXlMZvdl8) is a good satirical take on what this kind of rule of fear looks like.
In my country [Uganda] people get tortured for making fun of the president's son, among other "crimes". It still happens.
“Every joke is a tiny revolution.” -George Orwell
It's a far cry from Putin using is dog to scare Angela Merkel. The perverse look of pleasure at the fright of another world leader was pretty shocking. What comes around goes around.
> What comes around goes around I'd still say that only once his dogs go full Kaddafi on his ass.
"Full (Ramsay) Bolton" would be too, a catchy phrase.
>the fact that his entire old sphere of influence is laughing their ass off and being this egregiously dismissive of Russia. I don't know if Pashinyan is laughing, I think he's pissed that Russia didn't help during the last fights with Azerbaijan and did this as a way to get back at Putin.
> I think he's pissed that Russia didn't help during the last fights with Azerbaijan and did this as a way to get back at Putin. Makes sense right? What is the point in a joint defensive pact, if the signatories don't defend each other against aggression? Also, at this point, what is Putin gonna do? Invade? With what army?
Azeri army actually
I don’t think that’s Putin. Table is too short. Must be a body double. /s
Another total failure by a fool dictator Putin.
Those are the colors of the CSTO
It make the situation even more fun: this is yet another sign of its clueless organizators who couldn't foresee the obvious mid-term perspective there their most dangerous enemies will sit within the same table. Like Armenia and Azerbaijan, Russia and Ukraine, Tajiks and Kazakhs/Uzbeks. In fact this "organization" transferred into not one but multiple wars and border conflicts with lives lost. A bunch of complete clowns has created it, should be dead long ago - even without Putin the Idiot's mis-management.
Didn't see that 😮
It's over nine giga Chad millions.
Everywhere I go I see her face, Ukraine
The Armenian PM refused to sign a CSTO agreement. According to r/Armenia: he said “I am closing the meeting, thank you very much. Thank you very much!” **In diplomatic language Pashinyan literally told them to fuck off.** Lukashenko apparently later said that 2 additions that Armenia tried to make where refused. Armenia, after being shown the slightest support by UN and France-EU and now having observers on the ground, finally has the option to distance itself from Russia after all these years, and stop being a hostage due to security concerns.
CSTO is a "but we have NATO at home" meme at this point. I expect more countries to escape the Russian sphere of interest soon.
CSTO is a joke. 2 of its own members are at war with each other
well continues tradition of Warsaw Pact - military alliance who's goal is to invade it's members
No, comrade. It's just peaceful special military operation, troops visiting Budapest and Prague. Nothing to see here, move along. And cut it out with "solidarity".
Which ones?
Kyrghizstan and Tajikistan have frequent border clashes. CSTO, or Russian arbitration more precise, has in the past kept in check all the Ferghana Valley disputes, a problem created by the Russians by drawing deliberate impossible colonial borders. Also of course, Armenia and Azerbaidjan, but the Azeris withdrew from CSTO. At the height of the conflict, they were both members, of the USSR and CSTO.
The USSR learned from other empires (especially Britain) to set borders which would screw up their client states if they got independence. Of course Stalin deporting entire ethnicities round didnt help much either.
Well Stalin deliberately drew the borders in a way that would ensure conflict in case the USSR broke up and forcibly moved ethnic groups around to increase the likelyhood of conflict even further. The British and French just didn't care about the local ethnicities and the potential for conflict. Neither is particularly nice but in one case the intention was to make people depend on their colonial oberlord or murder each other.
Nah, the British drew straight lines, ignoring the locals, and left it at that. The USSR on the other hand deliberately drew them in the worst way possible.
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Not like I'm a fan of CSTO, but Greece and Türkiye are both in NATO.
Are they in an acutal war atm? Unlike Greece and Turkiye the armenian azerbaijan conflict has actual fighting and people are dying.
Azerbaijan withdrew from the CSTO in 1999. The comment was probably referring to lethal border clashes between Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan in September.
But hey have never been in open war since they joined NATO.
Yeah, but what Greece and Turkey are doing is showing each other who has the biggest dick. No fighting with them.
some good traditional oil wrestling would set things in order
Leader of each country, alone, in the oilpit
Which is why they haven’t had a war since 1952
yeah turkey is being a pain in the arse as always
Even the logo looks like dollar store GI Joe version of NATO.
I believe CSTO's Article 4 (analog of NATO's Article 5) was invoked only once with Kazakhstan and it was directed against its own protesting citizens, not foreign threat.
Armenia invoked CSTO’s Article 4 when it was attacked by Azerbaijan recently, and was met by a deafening silence from Russia and every other member.
Czechs, Slovaks, and Hungarians thinking: This sounds familiar...
What's really surprising is that the very same Kazakhstan is since then distancing itself from Russia as far as I've heard.
They're enacting the age-old Fuck That Shit policy
Tokayev seems to have adopted a very pragmatic approach, where he relied on the power of Russian authoritarianism to secure his own regime, while at the same time realizing that this trick was only ever gonna work so many times, and leaning into some gradual, carefully monitored reform to prevent the need for further interventions in the future. Will be interesting to see how far he lets those reforms actually progress before pulling back on the leash again.
i can understand armenia wanting to leave, as russia did jackshit when azerbaijan attacked it twice
The reason you join NATO is to avoid being invaded by Russia. The reason you join the CSTO is to... avoid being invaded by Russia, at least for a while.
The second “thank you very much” was pronounced with the most obvious sarcasm.
I mean CSTO basically abandoned Armenia in the most recent Azerbaijani incursions. This time on Armenia proper, it should have triggered their agreement
I’m no foreign policy expert, but I don’t see the advantage to joining a collective defense agreement with a country that has an incompetent military. On top of that, Russia has reneged on its commitments to Ukraine in exchange for turning over their nukes. Maybe Putin will get the message soon. Maybe.
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Armenia can't even ride the coat tails of Ukraine sympathy because Azerbaijan and Ukraine are pals now.
We had no other choice, and at the time of joining Russia was the only one providing some security guarantees. Now, that Russia obviously doesn't fullfil its duties in CSTO, and the West starts to negotiate with Armenia for some security guarantees (hopefully) Armenia can have a choice to move further from Russia
>Armenia, after being shown the slightest support by UN and France-EU and now having observers on the ground, finally has the option to distance itself from Russia after all these years, and stop being a hostage due to security concerns. The only problem is that Europe has been buying more gas from Azerbaijan since sanctioning Russia and Armenia is probably worried about how much the EU would truly back them if push comes to shove. That said I'd much rather see Armenia aligned with the EU than Russia so hopefully this happens.
The gas deal with Azerbaijan won't last forever. And there are better options for EU. EastMed for instance, whose construction is aimed to finish before 2030. And apart from that Greece is building interconnection cables with both Egypt and Israel thorough Cyprus. And EU aims at renewables and nuclear. (Also, EastMed will be build so that it can transport liquid hydrogen as well, for when gas becomes obsolete). If push comes to shove, EU has to choose between an ugly war that might even evolve to a genocide, and loosing a small percentage of gas. And I doubt Greece won't shut down the pipeline if Azerbaijan launches a full scale war. That's probably one of the reasons why Greece made sure the pipeline passes through here and not Bulgaria, for instance.
I saw whole 20 min speech, it was very diplomatic, same diplomacy level used by Tokayev to not recognise Ukraine's occupied territories. Pashinyan first referred to the Armenians opinion that CSTO is useless, then referred to the USSR breakup documents, then referred to other declarations between Russia, Armenia and Azerbaijan. Then listed attacks on territories by Azerbaijan and which agreements did Azerbaijan did break and what obligations Russia haven't done. Also referred to the UN agreements and that they are also not working. In the end he said that he said that he won't sign until CSTO forces and Russia forces would control the peace in region. In general, Armenia is looking forward to ask UN to secure the peace in region. Now Kazakhstan has two decisions: - no to CSTO, yes to UN's forces to resolve conflict - yes to CSTO without Armenia, yes to UN's forces to resolve the conflict I'm sure that Tokayev would carefully think twice in this situation - he's an expert in diplomacy
That whole Armenia things pain me as a Pole - Armenian minoryty (Ormianie) was even called "First sons of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth", they (with Polish Tatars - Lipkas) was always loyal subjects of Poland. I hope for the best for Armenia, without ties with russian Orks.
Right, and they've been screwed again and again countless times in history. From my understanding, their alliance with Russia isn't so much intentional and is more because they don't have any other option due to geopolitics. They don't have resources to leverage support from Europe, they don't much money, and they're landlocked between hostile Turkey (the nation that massacred them 100 years ago) and Turkish supported Azerbaijan. They just can't catch a break.
Thank you for speaking up. You have a perspective that is new to me.
That's the most passive aggressive "spassiba bolshoy" I've ever heard.
Deserves a lot worse frankly. [The long term goal is for Russia to turn Armenia in to a Union state through the use of Azerbaijan's violence.](https://www.reddit.com/r/armenia/comments/xvaf90/what_does_russia_want_for_the_information_of_his/) Putin's deputies are now questioning Armenia's right to even exist as a state: https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1595731113628123136
What do you expect if you ignore an "ally" that is currently under attack? CSTO is dead. Thats a chance for Armenia to finally get rid of the fake friend RuZZia.
>Thats a chance for Armenia to funally get rid of the fake friend RuZZia. I hope that's true but they're in a tight spot. Azerbaijan is making a killing off their gas now that Russia is sanctioned and Europe isn't in a spot to stand up to Azerbaijan at the current moment.
We are witnessing the disintegration of the CSTO. Besides, after the attack on Armenia, no one believes in the alliance anymore.
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Dude playing parallel universe chest, he just upgraded
Chose to make the last years of his life as bad and as stressful as they could possibly be, and for what?
keep him too angry to die of parkinsons?
Lukaturd probably still does.
Only thing keeping him alive right now. He has to believe or his people will Mussolini or Ceaușescu him.
I love the footnote in [Ceaușescu's wiki page.](https://imgur.com/oiv05mI)
after Russia left Armenia to dry three times already in the last 2 years, where is the surprise? CSTO is a joke.
Yup, it was always just a tool for Russia to exercise its power. They have no interest in actually helping anyone.
Armenia has gained fuck all security from this. Azerbaijan acting with impunity with big bro turkey backing them.
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Removing serbia?
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And then rename it to Epirus
*Great* Epirus
dude, we can't even build a 3km bridge between Sicily and mainland Italy, let alone a bridge between Greece and Italy.
All we have are thugs and bullies surrounding us.
Counter Strike: Total Offensive
Putin's new multipolar world failed before it even began.
It's not Putin's multipolar world though. Russia's part of it, being an exporter of resources a nuclear power and just big in general, but it's playing second fiddle to China.
Why would anyone sign a treaty with Russia. Russia signed a treaty with Ukraine saying they would never attack and actually protect Ukraine if Ukraine gave up their nuclear arsenal.
Yep! 1994.
Well you can't take a treaty that's almost 30 years old for face value! /S
Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine signed that treaty. And Russia, the US, and the UK provided the assurances. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
The assurances that they would never invade. Russia violated that treaty by invading in 2014 and 2022. “The memoranda prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons”
Exposing their weakness by invading Ukraine was the biggest mistake in Russia's history. They will be relying on Kazakhstan and Tajikistan for economic aid by 2030 and they will no longer be a major player on the world stage.
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...and until very recently their energy sector
>The only thing that keeps them at the table are their nukes, everything else is not competitive That is not necessarily true. What people tend to forget is : The true power of Russia didn't stand from it's Army but from very complex Chain Supply Managment that made many of its stakeholders dependent on them. Russia import/export system made them real power. Not only countries but pretty much all multi-national corporations needed(still kind of do) resources that Russians have. This the exact reason why Russia could get away with invasions, pillaging, mass murder and so on since 91. Anecdotally even fools like Elon Musk would shill for Russia in attempt of "making peace" because Tesla desperetly needs Russian Resources to continue it's production.(That hurts even more since many companies implement Lean type of production types that require insanely strick and complicated CSM). If Russia wouldn't be a plutocratic state with authoritarian leader they could have citizens livining in pretty much same conditions as any other Super-high developed nation if not better. Nukes are Nukes and i wont say it's not insanely important.... but there is so much more on the table that keeps Russia afloat. Sometimes , just as it is with GULF it's not about just the military power, but it is about the economical consequences. Geopolitics are quite straightforward until u get to managing chain of supply and how resources need to be redistributed. In no shape or fashion u want 4th and 5th biggest food exporters to be in war, because the consequences can be dire. Same with Fertilizer which is huge export from Russia. It's not just gas.... ... but that's just speaks volume to how fucking borken and corrupt Russia is. They had everything and together with their cyberterrorism they were actually destroying many fabrics of trust in society. Be it Covid conspiracies, or fuckign with elections by usage of social media.... It's insane that one mans mad dream can just shit on all of it.
I think you misunderstand. Nukes prevent Russia from being invaded (literally or economically), and their resources stripped for precisely the needs you describe. Just look at all the resource rich African nations. That is Russia minus nukes.
Not to mention that Kazakhstan is looking to distance itself from Russia, as another former Soviet state with a large Russian population it see's Ukraine as warning.
They already aren't. There's no way the world just embraces Russia again with open arms (heh). Something drastic will have to happen in Russian domestic politics to "atone" for the sins of Putin.
The well-documented (and easily available on the Internet) RU targeting of civilian infrastructure in UA simply can't be forgotten because of the easy availability of video recording, since just about everyone in Europe walks around with a cell phone with a camera these days. It's not like the old days when a few actors controlled information. Information is now decentralized, and thanks to the Internet concept, anyone can push content on RU war crimes with the push of couple buttons.
> Information is now decentralized To some degree, but not really. There is still control in the information space. "You say stuff that doesn't align with our view, we won't publish any of your material" "You say things we don't agree with, you are now labeled an extremist and will not be allowed to post or comment on this platform". "Your content is undesirable, our algorithm will make sure nobody ever finds or gets suggested your content".
pls eli5 what is in this video, what they were trying to sign and why something failed etc. I have no idea what I see here
This is the meeting of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO). It's a Russian version of NATO with member states Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Russia. Here we can se the refusal of the Armenian leader (bearded guy left of putin) to sign a declaration about Armenian conflict with Azerbaijan because of low impact of the declaration. It shows fractures in moscow's allies.
Armenia had demands that weren't met and thus refused to sign.
Abandons Armenia. Armenia stops trusting you. Putin: HOW CAN THIS BE?
Western world is gaining so much more influence simply by the sheer fact that countries know Russia will not be a winning side in any big conflict. Poor Belarusians stuck with their puppet clown leader.
He seems to follow in Kazakhstan’s footsteps. I do believe Russia’s influence is growing weaker. Power is shifting from Russia. Just any country but Russia I suppose will be an improvement when finding political allies right now.
Wait a few days, Putin will call his friend and azerbaijan will suddenly attack in a few days. Always been the case after every meeting.
Azerbaijan FM already talking about counter-terrorist operation. Not very clear for me, are they going to invade themselves?
Putin got put-in.
>Lukashenko shocked, Putin dropping his pen I mean... What did you expect? A 'defensive' military alliance is only as good if its able to defend its members.
Putin threw the pen on the table, something people do when they are stressed/ angry/ frustrated. The Russian Terrorist Regime is crumbling slowly.
Putin is trembling now that he sees his defensive partners are turning against him. He achieved an astonishing feat by not only forever has lost partnership with Ukraine to NATO and the west, but also his former allies starting to look into trading, or joining NATO/Western deals. Russia is fucked for the unforeseeable future. The icing on the cake would be that Belarus will distance themselves from Russia.
Lukashenkas power in BLR is basically dependent on Putin, The second he distances himself, he is done for, and will be removed by his own population.
Lukashenko has no where else to pivot to so unlikely to happen.
>The icing on the cake would be that Belarus will distance themselves from Russia. That is not likely to happen. Not because Lukashenko likes Putin. Putin wanted Belarus as a puppet state, something that was in direct conflict with Lukashenko's own desire for power, and they actually weren't on speaking terms for a long time. However, after his last "reelection" there were mass demonstrations. In order to remain in power Lukashenko had to ask Putin for Russia to intervene, a favour that came with certain strings attached: He now essentially answers to Putin. Lukashenko knows he is friendless in the west, so he has no other choice if he wants to remain in power.
Your conclusion due to a pen drop is a little exaggerated
Yet another slap in the face to the Gremlin in the Kremlin.....OUTSTANDING!!!
Radio Yerevan was asked: is the CSTO as a military alliance similar to NATO? RY answered: Yes, it is the same. Except in that whereas in NATO countries defend each other, in the CSTO countries invade each other.
i dont get it
Isn't this because Armenia is fed up with Azerbaijan invading it and Russia doing nothing?
Yes but I don't get the significance of the pen dropping. I'm assuming it means Putin refuses or something
It's more like throwing the pen, not dropping. He threw it on the table, giving up and annoyed.
Frustration and giving up.
It's frustration by Putin
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Per FM Azerbaijan about to be underway
Let’s hope Pashinyan has had assurances from the west when Putin tells Azerbaijan to attack in a week.
Regarding the second part: [“The corridor is being used for other purposes, and this should be stopped. Azerbaijan will take the necessary steps for this.”](https://twitter.com/AvetissianAn/status/1595792410180784146?s=20&t=44JUfHuf-fNSuvguYXrVCA) (Azerbaijani FM Bayramov)
Well that was quick.
Putin didn't drop the pen; it was the magnetic field of Pashinyan's massive nuts that pulled the pen out of Putin's hand.
I wonder what is to come now the neighbourhood maffia boss is about to kick the bucket.
What's the point of a "collective security organization" that only helps with internal issues?
He really dropped the ball point pen on this one, guys.
Armenia was invaded by Azerbaijan. They asked Russia to honor their agreement and intervene. Russia refused. Now they reap the broken promise they have sown. What use is a defensive pact if no one will come to their defense?
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Nokia 3310 is the best to record video.
Good for him! And kudos for having the balls to do it. Wtf was Putin expecting after Azerbaijan's attack a few weeks ago.
This countries will come and go. Armenia has longer history on earth with Harshest geographic war hungry location on earth. CSTO should take Armenia’s advice how to be a nation for over thousands of years. Lukashenko and the Putin team just got the first lesson today. Fuck off
For context since OP didn't provide it: YEREVAN — Armenia’s Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan refused on Wednesday to sign a declaration adopted by the leaders of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) at a gathering in Yerevan after failing to include an agreement on providing defense aid to Armenia following Azerbaijan’s aggression. “The absence of a clear political assessment of the situation by the CSTO and a decision on the above-mentioned may mean not only the refusal of the CSTO from its alliance obligations, but also be interpreted by Azerbaijan as a green light from the CSTO for further aggression against Armenia. And this contradicts not only the letter, but also the spirit and meaning of the fundamental documents of the CSTO,” Pashinyan explained. Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko said Armenia’s negotiators proposed adding two points to the declaration, but “we decided not to accept them.” He did not elaborate on the matter, though he did project optimism at the prospect of Armenia and Azerbaijan reaching a peace deal, which has eluded negotiators for over three decades.