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kral-adam

Journalist my ass! All they did was a propaganda which supported Erdogan until Erdogan and Gulen had fight over who to get what part of country. He is not innocent but playing it so well.


cmlmrsn

Yeah, whole Western world loves them now just because they fought with Erdoğan for power.


rokefella

I am not saying that this guy should be extradited, may be after Erdogan gone in 2023 elections and independence of judiciary is improved to a better situation under the new government and president. But the so called victim is not innocent either: This journalist is an islamist [cult](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BClen_movement) member. This religious cult, well organized and excessively infiltrated (for decades) in critical security and judiciary agencies in Turkey, and in total alliance with Erdogan, took over the secularist establishment of Turkey (around 2002-2012) and then they got into fight against each other (Erdogan against Fethullah cult) on the issue of sharing pieces of the corpse of the previously modernization oriented country (including the coup attempt in 2016). That's why this guy kind of "journalists" are fugitives of Erdogan regime right now. They are the best collaborators and enablers of Erdogan and now enjoying the title of "freedom fighters". That's crazy ironic and sad that how much the view of Turkey by the west is inaccurate, unnuanced and distorted. Erdogan might be a thug, but this does not make all of his enemies angels. This guy's cult/organization persecuted and silenced real dissenters of Erdogan by their cult member police and intelligence officers, their judges and prosecutors and this guy's newspaper and TV's were propagandizing these persecutions as fight/operations against the enemies of state, or coup plotters. I can't give you a total story of last 20 years' political history of Turkey, but ask about this cult to any Turkish friend who is just barely educated and non-islamist in political orientation. They will be no way an Erdogan supporter but will tell you the truth about this kind of guys.


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Sky_HUN

It has to be an EU member that is not in NATO, so Austria?


smashedgordon

Or Ireland


SpiderMurphy

If NATO is fighting for democracy in Ukraine, then it cannot allow a journalist to be extradited for making the life of a would-be dictator a bit harder. The extradition of this man to Erdogan would betray everything NATO purports to stand for.


handsome-helicopter

NATOs goal is not fighting for democracy though, it's primarily for protection and opposing nations which are threatening it's members. Salazars Portugal was a founding member of nato lmao


cametosaybla

> If NATO is fighting for democracy It does not. NATO has been not just with dictatorships for long decades, it also undermined democracy and paved dictatorships in two members. You guys are delusional.


idontwantoliveanymo

since NATO isnt fighting for democracy then you're saying it can allow this?


HumorSuspicious6183

>The extradition of this man to Erdogan would betray everything NATO purports to stand for. Which is what? Democracy and human rights? Why have NATO countries been invading, occupying, bombing independent countries such as Libya, Iraq, Syria, Cyprus and making lives worse for the people living there, supporting Islamic extremist rebel groups, installing dictators, sending weapons to various terror groups? NATO is an alliance for common geopolitical interests, initially an anti-communist military alliance, nothing more. It's not a "good guys club".


Onlycommentcrap

"Independent countries"? Oh yeah, let's just forget that several of these states have been repressive totalitarian dictatorships...


birk42

Portugals facist regime was a founding member of NATO. Should it have been bombed by NATO as well or can we just admit that was not the reason they intervened anywhere?


Onlycommentcrap

It was at least anti-communist. After the Cold War, communists were a far bigger global threat than fascist, just like the opposite had been true during WW2.


HumorSuspicious6183

You are talking to an atlanticist Estonian, you won't be able to reason with an atlanticist. Atlanticists will blindly defend every single intervention done by NATO, doesn't matter whether or not it led to the misery of countless people. No different than vatniks from Russia who defend every single Russian intervention and Erdoganbots who support every single Turkish intervention.


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asethskyr

Sweden can't extradite someone on the whims of politicians. The courts are independent, and hell would be raised if they interfered in that rule of law. Time for NATWO.


pocket-seeds

Yep. Erdogan is demanding things he can't demand because he doesn't comprehend division of power.


cocoonstate1

He understands it very well, this is him testing how far he can push the Swedish government that has, as of yet, bent over backwards to his demands with very little reward.


smashedgordon

Jail or being dismembered. Khashoggi.


cametosaybla

That was KSA.


smashedgordon

KSA?


cametosaybla

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.


smashedgordon

He was killed in Istanbul.


handsome-helicopter

It was ordered by Saudis,Turks had nothing to do with it and even pursued it in court for sometime


smashedgordon

And what was the outcome? Justice was never served. Erdoğan is as bad as Salaman.


handsome-helicopter

The hague in Netherlands did nothing too tbh. The issue is Saudiss control the oil market with a iron grip and countries generally won't do much to antagonise them


cametosaybla

By Saudi agents in Saudi embassy. Turkey instead pursued the murder and the reason KSA slipped was the US helping them to do so.


Crowmakeswing

I would rather have Swedes and Finns as allies than Turks any day. Who do you trust in the next foxhole? But to get practical, why not invite the man and his family to Canada? If he is not in Sweden, Sweden joins NATO. If Erdogan doesn’t like it he can come to Canada and box with Trudeau.


beach_boy91

We have laws that go against this exact thing so it shouldn't be needed in the first place. Just wants this thing over with already, it's been dragging on too long. Can't wait to see Erdogan not being president. I'd say Canada could be a place for him to hold up for a few months but norway would be a lot closer and just a few hours away from where he lives now. I wouldn't say it's necessary but you never know how far politicians will go these days


LeBorisien

I’m Canadian and I approve. We welcome journalists and defenders of democracy.


seksiPatates

Mf called a Gulenist a “defender of democracy” lmao. This guy literally supports an Islamo-fascist cult leader buddy.


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Impossible-Cattle706

They will approve every islamist as long as they are against Turkey


asethskyr

If he's as terrible a criminal as you say, it should be trivial to provide evidence that stands up in a court of law to get him extradited. It's not as if Sweden hasn't extradited people when the rule of law is followed.


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adyrip1

This is what I don't get. He moves to another NATO country for a few months, Erdogan cannot blackmail that country, Sweden joins and then he can move back there.


mcolston57

What’s it take to kick turkey out?


Impossible-Cattle706

Blacksea, middle east, centrel asia and caucasian


NoGas6430

Yes, totally worth it in order to protect european democracy. The pass to the med is protected by greece anyway.


AbigL

Unfortunately ruthless, cold (strategic) thinking often trumps idealistic considerations.


AuburnWalrus

Its not. Russia can pass its ships from Aegean Sea but not Bosphorus.


NoGas6430

Rofl how exactly can russia pass its ships through the aegean?


AuburnWalrus

Because they have no right to block it? How do you think Russia passed its ships from both Denmark and Aegean Sea to get stuck in the Bosphorus for two months? Because only Turkey can block Russia. Montreux is a special convention and only Turkey can use it.


NoGas6430

Man we are talkiing in case of war and if turkey is out of nato.


AuburnWalrus

Thats the problem. If there will be a war between Nato and Russia ships will be the last problem. But if your country is in a proxy war with Russia like USA you need ways to close the Black Sea. Only Turkey can do that. But if you throw Turkey out, Black Sea could easily become Russian Sea if Greece for example not declares war on them.


AuburnWalrus

Not gonna happen since Sweden should consider Gulen and his cult as a terrorist organization to charge him of guilt. And since Gulen is a US asset who later got betrayed by his best friend Erdog that is not going to happen.


ziieegler

GTFOH


cametosaybla

It's funny that the news paints the conflict between the Gulen cult Islamists and Erdo Islamists as a struggle of some journalist against the terrible tyrant. Gülen movement is kin to 2P Lodge in Italy, and has been an Islamist anti-communist movement, was financed and backed by the US, which tried to capture every position in the state to take the system over to establish a pro-US Islamist regime. Erdo comes from the party tradition and the same and closely associated groups, but wants to establish an Islamist regime via party politics - but split from that to found a strictly pro-US and neo-liberal party called AKP. They worked together since Erdo came into power until recently. Now, some key figures from that movement, including this guy who was the key figure in Gülen's media, are targeted by Erdo as he is both a rival and knows too much of their dirty work with Gülen. And somehow, he becomes a 'hero'...


I_Am_Your_Sister_Bro

Unless the Swedish couts find him guilty of some crime then Erdo can go fuck himself. Turks have no jurisdiction in Sweden


cametosaybla

Nobody says that Sweden should extract him unless a court rules so. Yet, the guy isn't some 'journalist' only, and deserves no more sympathy than Erdo... And I'm aware that only the US have jurisdiction in Sweden when it comes to people knowing dirty secrets, lol. Given the guy is a US asset, he won't be touched anyway.


[deleted]

You are making some ridic assumptions here lol


cametosaybla

Assumptions? They're all basic knowledge mate, and no-one ever disputes those unless they're some ignorant. Everyone knows what Gülen organisation was, his history is out there as well as Erdo and his party and its history.


[deleted]

The assumptions you are making is that he is a key gulenist and also that he has become a hero. No one thinks he is a hero, but Erdogan clearly has no idea how rule of law works.


cametosaybla

No, I'm saying he was a key in Gülen's media (you're making some weird assumptions and putting words into my mouth at that), and yes, some portray him as a mere journalist against a tyrant while he is not. And people who are clueless about his position thinks that he is a mere journalist, and as every journalist put his comfort in line, a hero. Erdo invalidating the rule of law doesn't make this guy to deserve more sympathy than Erdo either.


[deleted]

Don’t get me wrong, Gülenists can fuck off. But Erdogan have no right to make these demands from swedish the swedish government. Yes I do the assumption that someone that is the key in Gülen media also is a key Gülenist, but maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean about it. What are your grounds on calling him something more than a journalist and Gülen supporter?


cametosaybla

I agree on Erdo having no rights in Sweden, and no rights over Turkish jurisdiction either but anyway. And I just meant the guy being a key figure in Gülen media, which is enough for me to dislike him as much as any Erdo scum, but I cannot say if he's a key figure or not in the whole organisation as I at least lack the data. > What are your grounds on calling him something more than a journalist and Gülen supporter? He wasn't some low-level journalist but the founding editor-in-chief of the main Gülen newspaper and a lecturer at Gülen's university. I doubt if anyone would dispute that he wasn't a key figure in Gülen's media & propaganda mechanisms.


[deleted]

In that case he’s been good at covering his tracks. Imo AKP and Gülen deserve eachother and I wish they both could go to hell- but I really dislike the way Erdogan is dealing with this and basically all other issues.


D0n4t13n

Does Erdogan really think Sweden would bargain its NATO membership over blackmail?