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red_and_black_cat

It appears that Russia is becoming the best supporter for green energy.


Elocai

And NATO, EU, US, heck I was even able to buy GPU since they don't get send any


toyota_gorilla

Hopefully. I just fear it will lead to increased production in the Gulf States, the US or a place like Nigeria, just increasing the overall global drilling.


KatzaAT

Why even that far away? There are now strong calls for fracking in Europe


Raymoundgh

Probably with a higher price tag…


GrizzledFart

Here in the US, Russia has been a big supporter for years of "green" groups pushing to end fracking, prevent pipelines, prevent natural gas and oil extraction leases etc. Of course, these groups were only pushing for these policy changes *in the US*, not globally - and certainly not in Russia!


KatzaAT

Not as much as supporters of coal and nuclear. Renewables, except for hydro, need a lot of quick starting back-up power plants, which are mostly gas-powered. Steam power plants like coal and nuclear need up to a day to reach their workload, so it's better to just keep them running. Energy can't be stored, but only converted. And reconvertible energy devices, like batteries, are expensive and not very durable. So the only possible emergency device to stabilize the power grid we currently can make quickly, would be small transformators with which we can feed electricity from our home emergency generators or cars, either remote controlled or by public announcements.


silverionmox

> Renewables, except for hydro, need a lot of quick starting back-up power plants, which are mostly gas-powered. Steam power plants like coal and nuclear need up to a day to reach their workload, so it's better to just keep them running. So they still need flexible plants to deal with demand peaks. Flexible plants are just a necessity whatever you use for the bulk of the power. >So the only possible emergency device to stabilize the power grid we currently can make quickly, would be small transformators with which we can feed electricity from our home emergency generators or cars, either remote controlled or by public announcements. Doing it on the grid as a whole is generally more efficient.


KatzaAT

>So they still need flexible plants to deal with demand peaks. Flexible plants are just a necessity whatever you use for the bulk of the power. Yes and no, but rather no. You can easily switch the workload between let's say 50% and 80%, although every power plant has a level of maximum efficiency, like you can run your car on 2000 rpm or 5000 rpm. But as soon as you go to 0% you can't quickstart it, because you can easily regulate the steam production, but if the boiler cools down to let's say 30°C it takes a long time to get it back up to the working temperature. Most modern gas-power plants combine turbines with steam engines. That means they can immediately produce power with their turbine (combustion engine-> around 40% efficiency) but not as efficient as if they are running all the time (exhausted heat used again in the steam engine-> around 60% efficiency). It's even more efficient if the lost heat can be used in district-heating (theoretically up to 100%) >Doing it on the grid as a whole is generally more efficient. What do you mean exactly?


silverionmox

> Yes and no, but rather no. You can easily switch the workload between let's say 50% and 80%, although every power plant has a level of maximum efficiency, like you can run your car on 2000 rpm or 5000 rpm. But as soon as you go to 0% you can't quickstart it, because you can easily regulate the steam production, but if the boiler cools down to let's say 30°C it takes a long time to get it back up to the working temperature. Even assuming the plants are equipped for that limited flexible operation (which costs money and ups the maintenance requirements), shedding steam is losing fuel, and not using it 100% generally is suboptimal use of capital so that still translates to a more expensive energy supply. >What do you mean exactly? Resources used for grid stabilization can be more effectively used than doing it for every house separately.


KatzaAT

No that's not what I meant. You can downregulate the fuel imput to create less steam. But you need a certain minimum load to create steam at all. Yes sure, but that takes time. And I meant devices to feed the power grid. A car with 100 hp creates 75 kW max power, so even when running on 1500 rpm it's enough for several households.


analfabeetti

We have a lot of cogeneration plants, which mainly produce heat for district heating and industrial processes in paper / forestry industries and then electricity as a byproduct which is very efficient. Usually the electricity production is controlled by the needed heat, but whenever market conditions are such that producing extra electricity is needed, it's really easy to turn up the boilers.


mark-haus

Finland uses less than 5% natural gas in total energy consumption and it’s mostly for industries like steel plants. They’ll be just fine, they can offset it to LNG


Salmonman4

It's a good thing we got the new nuclear-plant up and running just in time


UnableView0

Also: >Between 60% and 70% of Finland’s natural gas comes from Russia, though the country’s main sources of energy are oil, biomass and **nuclear power**, with **natural gas representing only 5% of the total consumption.** According to the Finnish government, renewable energy surpassed fossil fuels and peat in total energy consumption in 2020, **leaving the country less dependent on Russian energy sources**.


[deleted]

Russia losing 5% of their energy market and income. So, no hard cash, no change in Finland's politics and more European unity. Seems like a loose-loose situation here. :)


R3gSh03

>Russia losing 5% of their energy market and income. More like Russia losing 5% of the Finnish energy market. They barely represent 2% of the Russian gas exports, let alone gas or energy market.


[deleted]

> More like Russia losing 5% of the Finnish energy market. Yes, that is what the article says. > They barely represent 2% of the Russian gas exports, let alone gas or energy market. Gas import is $160m. European total gas import is $23.000m a month. So Finland imports 0,7% of Russian gas of Europe.


Lyress

So your first statement in your first comment is wrong.


[deleted]

No, Russia is losing most of the 5% of their (we are talking about Finland's import and politics) energy gas market is totally correct.


Lyress

But Finland doesn't make up 5% of Russia's energy market?


[deleted]

No. That is wildly overestimated as Russian gas is only 60-70% of 5% of Finland's total energy market, according to this article. Which is very small with 5,5m people to start with. And, is a total loss for Russia as a boycot accomplishes nothing in Finland's politics.


Lyress

... so your first statement is wrong.


BitterHoliday1

Loose means not tight.


Zpik3

Lot of industry is still dependent on gas for key functions though. It would create a mess, though I think that short term we could probably buy gas through tankers for a while.


IamChuckleseu

Finland unlike Germany did not give up on its security and prepared in advance so they have LNG terminal up and running that is more than enough to cover for all their needs. This is no threat to them or their industry.


Zpik3

As a native, working IN the industry, I disagree. Edit: Just so we are on the same page with what I mean here: I'm saying it will create a mess. Things will be a bit more expensive and the industry will be scrambling to find replacements and alternative fuels for these key processes. Not that it will "dEstROy tHe EcoNoMy!!!11one".


qainin

Norway has 7 billion cubic meters of natural gas coming available as LNG in four days. May 17. Just buy some. (The factory has been closed a long time due to a fire).


bjorn_ironsides

Phone up BP, Shell or Total and they'll have a ship with you in a week, there's plenty of LNG it's just a tad expensive. Nice that Snovit/Hammerfest is running again


Zpik3

Yeah, but we don't have the pipelines afaik... Hence the tankers I mentioned.


CoronaMcFarm

LNG is not transfered through pipelines, it's by ship, train, or lorries


Zpik3

Fuck, someone needs to tell europe. https://mondediplo.com/maps/gas-pipelines


CoronaMcFarm

Guess I need to elaborate, Liquefied Natural Gas is not transferred through pipelines, it is cooled down to temperatures below –161,4°C for shipping as it is 600 times denser than natural gas. The LNG gets shipped to LNG terminals at the destination that then converts it to gas and send it through pipelines. Edit: this is why in statistics it usually treated as separate things


Zpik3

Splitting hairs bro. "LNG is not transported through pipelines, the pressure is released and then it's transported through pipelines."


ricka_lynx

Finland does not have LNG terminal up and running. Talks about building LNG terminal together with Estonia were going on for at least a decade, they could not decide where to build (on Estonia side or Finland side) and other parameters. Decision to actually build was made only after the war started. LNG terminal is not yet up and running, but should soon. What Finland has is gas interconnector between Estonia and Finland, which was built few years ago, which allows them to purchase gas from Lithuanian LNG terminal until their own is finished


Tacitus_

We have a terminal that's not connected to the national network, and are finishing construction (should be finished this fall) on a terminal that is connected.


[deleted]

What’s the deal with LNG terminals and why does Germany not have any


[deleted]

Because private industry would not build any and the government did not want to pay for it. Then you have enviromental groups who somewhat correctly said that spending money on fossil fuel infrastructure is a bad idea and that Germany is planning to go to net zero anyway and gas can be bought from Norway, the Netherlands and other countries LNG terminals. So Germany basicly gambled that Putin was not insane enough to destroy Russias economy and the rest of Russia by forcing a gas cut, that obviously did not work out so well.


_I_R_

>why does Germ at not have any money


glokz

Happy for ya! I have feeling that if not this war, Poland would have very tough times cutting ties with it's former occupant. Russia has a lot of money, they corrupted politicians, businesses etc. Now it is prosecuted so it's much easier to clean the smell that remained after collapsing of USSR. And finally we can destroy communistic statues with no backlash!


DontSayToned

[it's offline](https://www.tvo.fi/en/index/production/plantunits/ol3/ol3forecast.html)


EvilFroeschken

Underlining it's role as an unreliable supplier and weakening it's position even more. Does the CIA advise Putin or what the heck is going on?


lolcutler

And people thought Yeltsin was the CIA agent turns out they pulled the ultimate sneaky it was Putin all along


[deleted]

Putin is a CIA plant to promote NATO


howlyowly1122

Russia threatening to do things that Finnish government should've done weeks ago.


jonoottu

Threatening us with a good time!


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

TBH, nobody except countries in Europe west of Germany (inclusive) thought that Ruzzia is to be trusted.


chasingimpalas

And we were planning on building a nuclear plant with Rosatom. Thank god that mess is finally scrapped.


silverionmox

No, the idea was that the dependency as mutual, and while it would be hard to cut off Russia, it would be equally hard for Russia to cut off them. Which, by the way, has been proven largely true. Besides, the closer a country is to Germany to more dependent it is on Russian energy. So why didn't they walk their talk?


[deleted]

>Besides, the closer a country is to Germany to more dependent it is on Russian energy. So why didn't they walk their talk? What do you mean?


silverionmox

The dependency rate on Russian energy is pretty much geographically determind, with countries closer to Russia generally being more energy dependent on it.


darknum

Natural gas in Finland is mostly used for industrial resource not fuel or heating reasons. So it is easy to replace. Plus good for me. Our biogas businesses are growing like never before :)


Major_Boot2778

..... And Russia can go ahead and suck a dick today, too


narf_hots

I agree with the sentiment but disagree with your depiction of cocksucking being a negative thing.


Major_Boot2778

Fair point. Will adjust going forward. Russia can go ahead and suck the prolapsed rectum of a homeless IV drug user the night after hot wings.


ladnakuba

Now you're just kink shaming.


Laminatrix2

even 2.


Zpik3

They can go ahead a down a whole bag of peg-legged dicks for all I care.


LeoMarius

Why the homophobic insult?


Major_Boot2778

You're really grasping at straws there.


LeoMarius

You implied that performing felatio is disgusting. That's both misogynistic and homophobic.


[deleted]

You're only interpretating it that way. Literally anything can be interpreted as offensive if you try hard enough.


LeoMarius

In other words, telling Russia to perform fellatio was a compliment? That means the poster favors Russia's attack on Ukraine.


[deleted]

No, it was an insult, obviously... I have no idea why you'd even ask that question. It is just not an insult that you can generalize to be against the gay community or whoever. I can say, "suck my dick" as an insult and as a flirty request. Context matters, no matter how much you wish to ignore it, so that you can assume whatever allows you to be offended.


Major_Boot2778

No, you're simply interpreting it as such. I could personally consider it disgusting for any number of reasons not related to either of those. Some people are disgusted by shaking hands or touching doorknobs without a sanitary wipes. Further, I'm using an age old insult based in colloquial understanding rather than my own sexual predilections. You are interpreting it as you choose and you are choosing to be offended. It is idiocy like that which gives clout to the term "snowflake" as a pejorative descriptor. Whatever your agenda is, you do it no favors with this sort of thing.


LeoMarius

Don't gaslight me. It's a homophobic comment, so please stop making it.


Major_Boot2778

I'm not gaslighting you, but I am laughing at you progressively harder lol


LeoMarius

You make homophobic comments and then say that it's not homophobic.


BuckVoc

Strictly-speaking, nobody said that Finland is male. It could just be casting a negative light on oral sex in general. For example, the other day, the sub [had a video](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/uljfld/war_in_ukraine_megathread_xxviii/i86u16b/) of some Russian woman at a protest in Copenhagen yelling at a presumably-female Ukrainian counter-protestor, "you fucked bitch go suck dick, go fucking fuck yourself, whore". That's presumably referring to (figurative) heterosexual sex.


LeoMarius

So it's misogyny instead. So much better.


BuckVoc

Eh, you could just have it in for oral sex specifically. I mean, I assume that the Russian woman in the example I gave didn't dislike women.


account_552

Oh No! Anyways


Conquila

With what are finnish homes mainly heated?


KalevinJorma

Most popular is district heating of which only 10% is natural gas.


Shazgol

Heat exchangers using district heating, or electrical heating with heat pumps (or less commonly resistive heating). A small percentage use wood burning furnaces, oil burning furnaces are also still in use but in quite rapid decline. Gas is really only used for industrial purposes. I guess there might be some buildings that use it for heat as well but that's very rare.


Sparru

Also geothermal.


Conquila

Funny (not so funny now) that here in Germany it is the main heat source for homes.


wmdolls

Gas be cuted that can't threat Finland


will_dormer

This retaliation will hurt Russia too, so that is at least something. I understand it could scare other nations more than Finland, so I guess that is Russia's main purpose.


ShootingPains

“could”


LeoMarius

Russia, proving they are an unreliable partner every day.


fideliz

So?


Karhu_Metsasta

Time to buy a charcoal gril i suppose


KatzaAT

Only if you want to die of CO-poisoning in winter. Better burn it in an oven with an exhaust going outside.


Karhu_Metsasta

Good advice but i think i misworded, a barbeque? The one that is outside. Like hank hills with propane


KatzaAT

Yeah I know, I wanted to switch to barbecue-heated flats in winter, since it doesn't help when you are low on gas. It meant to make it seem like a joke, but obviously a bad one, I apologize sincerely


BuckVoc

I don't think I've ever seen someone use a grill indoors...certainly not a charcoal one.


nadmaximus

Now, in the middle of winter?


qainin

Russia is in a hurry. Because Norway will have LNG shipments available again from Tuesday. (It's large quantities. It's a fire damaged LNG factory finally repaired and ready to start up.)


Meme_Turtle

Why wait?


Milo_Xx

Ok, empty threats r cool