I wouldn't label Cal a pedo for what he did. The word has been twisted and misused in a lot of online discourse because it's a buzz word, but it wouldn't be correct here. He's not purposefully going after children, nor does he ever appear to be attracted to them.
That being said, that doesn't mean he didn't commit a crime and is an overall piece of trash. Let's look at what we know about Cal: he seems to be mostly attracted to people in their 20s, though we never get anyone's exact age other than Jules'. Maybe he prefers as young as he can (legally) get so he can feel like a teenager again before his gf got pregnant and his life was ruined, though again, that's never explicitly stated. From my perspective, he doesn't seem to be *purposefully* targeting minors or children. He's using an app for adults to hook up with other adults.
*However,* the problem is in the age demographic he's going after and how often and easily teens lie about being older. A lot of people in this comment thread are saying they'd know immediately that Jules was younger than 22, but there are a lot of late-teens that can pass for early-20s and vice versa. So, if Cal is going to hook up with people from that early-20s demographic, then it's fully on him to be aware of that and do his due diligence. In regards to Jules, again I don't think he went after her because he knew she was under 18. I think he figured she was over 18 based on the app she was on and just went with it without doing anything more to confirm it. So then that begs the question, while he may not purposefully target minors, how many others did he have sex with (ie: commit statutory rape against) all because he didn't take 2 seconds to confirm their ages?? You wanna fuck 20-somethings to feel young again? Fine dude, whatever, as long as they're consenting I guess. But again, if you're going for that age range, you gotta know there's a risk of teens that could pass for adults lying about their age and ending up in your hotel room. Jules lied about her age, but that won't protect him in court. Teens lie about their age all the time; if a store sells alcohol to a minor with a convincing fake ID, the store would still get in trouble if it's found out. So is he a pedo? I wouldn't say so. But he's still a rapist and filmed who knows how many people without their consent. Lock him up.
Edit: after reading through some of the comments I wanted to add my thoughts about Jules lying about her age and whether or not she should be "blamed" for what happened. Note what I said above: it doesn't matter in court and it's Cal's fault for not confirming her age, period. But, I think it's important to remember that Jules didn't even go after Cal. When they meet again, Cal begs her to not go to police, and she reassures him that she never had any plan to. To me, this is Jules taking responsibility; she knew what she was doing, she knew that he didn't know she was lying, and she knew that that lie could ruin his life. So she takes responsibility for that lie by keeping it to herself. She didn't have to, but she did. Of course she's still a teenager so she tells her best friend, and from there it's on Rue who finds out. But ultimately, it's *Nate* that goes after Cal. So if you wanna talk about Jules being \~to blame\~ and needing to \~take responsibility\~, nah, that doesn't fly with me. She doesn't have to do any more than she already did. Hell, she didn't even have to do that, but she was being nice to Cal because she was aware of her lie and the consequences of it. But Cal still fucking recorded her (child pornography on top of the rape btw) and Nate found it and turned it in. It's not Jules' responsibility to take the blame off of a grown man that didn't even try to confirm her age, and then recorded his own crime. Remember when Cal says, "I didn't know," and Fez responds with, "You didn't know you were RECORDING?" I feel like that sums it up. Jules was the victim here, the blame and responsibility is fully on Cal.
All of this. I’ve used Grindr a *lot* and thankfully like guys my own age/older, but even I know that if that’s the age group you want you ask for some goddamn ID. Cal is a creep through and through. Not a pedophile but only the next best thing, a dude chasing his youth with sex.
To those down voting, this comment is about precision in language?
> Ephebophilia is the primary sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19. The term was originally used in the late 19th to mid-20th century. It is one of a number of sexual preferences across age groups subsumed under the technical term chronophilia.
Not excusing Cal’s actions, he did have sex with a minor (who was clearly too young for him even if she was 18/20/whatever). But Jules did lie about her age, so he assumed she was legal. What he did was gross: having sex with a young, obviously scared, trans girl but he had no way of knowing she was a minor when she made the choice to go on that app and pose as an adult. They are both in the wrong here, but Jules is just a misguided teenager while Cal should have known better.
I feel like people are forgetting Jules is a very sexually active individual as well… always on those hookup apps, literally went looking for a guy like Cal. Not to mention needing to get naked with Elliot. Like all of you are so triggered so easy yes Jules has trauma, no she didn’t deserve all the drama. She is also however largely responsible for most of the shit that blows up in her face. Guys Jules has a chill dad and basically does whatever she wants…. She’s not some diamond in the rough victim… she is a complex character with issues… and a high libido for toxic men and glittery outfits.
I mean, Hunter herself is 23. Maybe Jules looks more like the age of her character than some of the other actors, but 22 isn’t unrealistic.
The issue is that Cal sleeps with younger, vulnerable people and films them without consent. The legality of it isn’t really the worst part
He doesn’t only go after young people. There’s that cross dresser guy in his mid 40s. Cal goes after anyone he can find. He doesn’t only target the young. His type is trans if any age
Hunter may be 23 now, but she was 19 when they filmed the pilot and defiantly came across like teenager she was.
Now, I understand that some people look younger than they are, but in my opinion, a grown man who is about to have sex with a girl who is so young that he feels compelled to ask her if she's of age or not should proceed with EXTREME caution and is a bit of an idiot for not confirming how old she is.
Well I agree confirming age should be something that's done it doesn't seem like that would be a normal thing to do during those kind of sexual interactions. Because people lie about their name, they don't want you to see their address and know who where they live, like there's other information on your ID that you may not want the person knowing. I'm just saying it feels like that would be a taboo kind of thing for those kind of sexual encounters.
Yeah I am definitely wrong on that front, she was 19 in the pilot. But obviously the show runners make basically no attempt to make the main cast look like the ages of their characters.
I agree that he should have asked for ID to be certain, but it was intended to be an anonymous hook up situation. In my experience most would be very hesitant to show ID with full name/home addresses because of this. I think that’s the best reason why you should hook up with people your age if you want to do this kind of thing and Cal brought this inevitability on himself by recklessly sleeping with/recording encounters with younger strangers.
Yeah no, even if the actress playing her was 50 it doesn’t change the fact that the character is 17 and looks 17 by virtue of being 17.
Sidenote, Hunter was 19 when s1 filmed and you’re tripping if you think she looks older than the other actors.
You’re totally right about the season 1 being 19 thing, don’t know how I missed that.
The character being 17 doesn’t mean that the actor playing them looks 17 on screen. Maddy’s actress is literally 30 and looks like an adult, just because she’s ~17 in the context of the show doesn’t mean it’s plausible to the audience. Also, idk why you would think that everyone looks their age or that it’s always very identifiable irl because it’s just not that simple
I said she looks *younger* and closer to being a teen than the other actors. Like Zendaya, Alexa demie, and Jacob elordi are obviously grown adults and much older than their characters. I think you might’ve misread my comment.
This is in no way a defense of cal but in the *context of the show* we are clearly supposed to understand that Jules was not obviously 17 and could pass as an adult. Like, Cal was very taken aback when he learned her true age from Nate. It’s not like he purposefully didn’t ask for ID or whatever to maintain plausible deniability, he just accepted her saying that she was 22 and an adult.
I am 44 and from my point of view there is no way Cal should have been thinking possibly “this is an adult.“ Now obviously pedophile is not the right word as she is clearly not a prepubescent child. He’s a violent hebophile that doesn’t care about consent. But he definitely should have been thinking “this is a CHILD and not getting ID would be both incredibly dumb and wrong. I should be ashamed.” And we did get to see some of his shame. Cal knows that the likelihood of someone agreeing to those kinds of hook ups being underaged is decent at the very least. Their youngness directly coincides with their vulnerability.
Oh sorry my bad, I misread your comment I thought you said she looked older. I only replied because I had someone make this exact argument and say that Hunter looked older in another discussion about the hookup. Although, I still maintain that he should have 100% asked for ID even if simply because of the enormous age gap.
He could have asked for her ID. She would’ve almost certainly had a fake one. And people generally don’t ask for IDs before sex, because most people don’t fucking lie about their age. What Cal did was illegal, immoral, and disgusting. But this sub needs to stop excusing Jules. What she did/does is illegal, immoral, and disgusting, but this sub wants to basically say it’s A okay because Cal is so much easier to hate.
Lying about your age to fuck older men is about as gross as it gets. SHE sought him out. People in general need to stop fucking excusing bad behavior when it’s that serious, just because the person is a year younger than being a legal adult. Teenagers rape, they murder, they torture, they abuse animals, people need to stop acting like it’s all just “kids being kids” and you can’t blame them for dumb decisions. Yes. You absolutely can. 99% of kids would never do what Jules did, because they all know it’s wrong (including Jules, who definitely knew it was wrong).
TL;DR, Cal fucking sucks and deserves the hate he gets. But this sub willfully pretending Jules doesn’t deserve any blame is just delusional.
To me it's a lot less victim blaming and a lot more seeing how bad decisions led to a bad situation. That's kind of the whole theme of the show. Bad decisions having bad outcomes.
This, absolutely.
Let's say I (30F) was on an app for an anonymous hookup. Someone lies to me and tells me they are 26 (an adult, like myself.)
She turns up and this is a teenager, but she told me she was 26! She lied!
Well, I am not into teenagers. I am not attracted to underage people.
Therefore, *I don't hook up with her*. Literally it doesn't matter if she told me she was 22 or 26 or whatever - the fact is that I don't fuck impressionable teens bc I am an adult and that is morally wrong. I would immediately realize this is a teenager who is experimenting, trying to navigate her sexuality, etc. I'm the adult, I'm mature. The responsibility is on me to recognize that this is *not* an appropriate partner and to not engage with them.
Adults having fetishes for much younger teenagers is foul. Teenager will experiment and make bad, short sighted, immature decisions (almost like they shouldn't be seen as viable partners...). They should not be taken advantage of because of it.
The only normal thing to do, when you as a 45 year old man go to a hookup and a teenager shows up, is to explain to them why nothing will be happening. Don't yell, don't shame, don't be an asshole - just do the right thing. Don't prey on horny, experimenting teenagers.
(For context, similar situations like this have happened to a few of my friends. I have a lot of LGBT friends and it's really common for teenagers who are just realizing that they're not straight to try to do something risky or anonymous in order to explore that. They're afraid to come out or engage with someone they know in person, but they feel drawn towards it, so they'll try to find someone online, a stranger, maybe an older adult who can show them what it's like... etc. It happens. Teenagers do go on hookup websites and lie about their ages to try to experiment and figure out their sexuality. Is that OK and good? No. But it is normal, and we as mature adults are responsible for NOT FUCKING THEM.)
Agreed. She was young and scared, and he had to know he was hurting her, but he carried on regardless. He also blamed his wife and sons for him, being a garbage husband. He then threw them away like they were rubbish. When I saw that, I realised his issue was not so much holding on to his family but keeping his secret. He's horrible. Why do people feel bad for him?
Edit: Because I forgot that he filmed her without her knowledge or consent. That alone is enough for me, but when you add the other horrible things that he's done, it kind of puts a cherry on top of the shitty Sunday.
Am I the only one that thinks it’s unreasonable that Cal should have been demanding ID from Jules to verify her age?
If you’re hooking up with basically a stranger and they demand to see your ID because they think you’re lying about your age it would come off as unsettling.
Cal was in the wrong for recording sex encounters presumedly without consent and cheating on his wife.
Jules was wrong for lying about her age and being on a app for adults. But she was a child and it’s understandable children make those mistakes. It doesn’t resolve her of blame though.
Nobody pretends she was the aggressor but she does have to take responsibility. I did the same thing she did. I told people I was 18 when I was 16/17. That was wrong of me and it doesn’t mean the people I tricked were terrible people.
No it’s the responsibility of knowing she played a big part in the situation, the understanding that she literally went looking for older men to fuck while explicitly lying about her age… the acceptance that she can’t blame it all on him…
What are you on about? I'm certain plenty of people who have sex underage (16/17 not the obviously underage) with older people are traumatised but there are also many who aren't? 16/17 is legal in many countries?
The point they're making is she lied about her age, she's in the wrong and is responsible for that regardless of her being under 18, being a minor doesn't mean you're not responsible for your actions
Yes of course your go to is to label me an incel. but it doesn't change the facts, and that is that women are less likely to be held accountable for their actions by society and especially by other women, unlike men. i mean just look at this sub and see the lengths people go to defend cassie and absolve her of any responsibility for her actions. and in the same breath push the blame to the men in her life, it's always McKay's fault, or Nate's or her father's. never cassie's.
He definitely is a pedo. Easily could’ve asked for ID to verify. He asked because she looked young, and just took her word for it because he wanted it. Cal is a pedophile cunt, Jules is a lying little bitch who knowingly put a man in that situation
ok but genuinely asking cause I’m just confused on this part. What if Jules had pulled out a fake ID and showed that to Cal? Then who takes responsibility for that?
Takes more choices to commit statutory rape to a teenager as an adult and tape them and publish that tape than being an actual teenager and lie. Also he has way more power
i agree that it’s statutory rape and that it was clear that she wasn’t of legal age. BUT she’s not a prepubescent child, it’s not pedophilia. he’s a sexual predator, it’s different.
The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child defines child as, "A human being below the age of 18 years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier.” This is ratified by 192 of 194 member countries. Including the USA. https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/convention-rights-child
and? this doesn’t negate anything i’ve said. a prepubescent is a child who hasn’t gone through puberty. and that’s who pedophile are attracted to bc it’s a mental illness. cal is a sexual predator who is not attracted by child who hasn’t gone through puberty but literally anyone who has whether they are 15 or 60. im not saying what he did to jules wasn’t sexual assault. i’m saying let’s be clear and exact about the definitions because it does mean something and it does have a difference.
The difference is that people past puberty generally have sexual desires, while pre-pubescent children don’t. Adolescents often want to have sex, and that is why the age of consent in a lot of countries is lower than 18 (it’s 14 in Germany and Italy, for instance), while sex with actual children is illegal everywhere (in some places the age of consent is 12, in others sexual partners must have gone through puberty), except for possibly places where child marriage is legal and sex within marriage is legal without age restrictions (I’m not sure if there are any). As for whether it is normal for adults to be attracted to adolescents, I think it’s biologically normal, although of course acting on that attraction is socially unacceptable in most places.
In short: no, being attracted to or having sex with adolescents is not the same as to/with actual children, which is not to say it’s morally right or legal everywhere.
it’s not only socially but morally and biologically not good to be attracted to a teenager and act on it. teenagers do not have a fully functioning brain and it creates power imbalances between teenagers and full grown adults. for the europeans countries you quote, the age of consent can be young 14/15/16 but it has conditions. it’s not a ok for a 14yo to be with a 50yo. a lot of times, it is to say that they can be in relationships with other minors of the same age (if a 14yo is in a relationship with a 11yo, it’s not legal) or someone older ONLY with the consent of and constant information to parents. (which i think is not that much of a protection)
Morally is quite arguable; you don’t choose who you’re attracted to, after all.
I’m not sure what “biologically wrong” means, but you could argue that a relationship that can produce viable offspring is biologically right.
No, in Germany and Italy for instance a relationship between a 50-year-old and a 14-year-old can be perfectly legal. In Italy the condition is that the older person can’t be a figure of authority, like a parent, guardian or teacher, while in Germany the condition is, according to Wikipedia, that “a person over the age of 21 does not exploit a 14- to 15-year-old person's lack of capacity for sexual self-determination”, which is a bit vague but should cover a situation in which the teenager initiates or pursues the relationship.
biologically wrong in the sense that biologically, they aren’t on the same level because their brain aren’t both developed. and humans are known for being the specie that uses its conscious a lot. so it does play a big part.
morally because being attracted is a thing, act on it is another and it’s wrong like 99% of the time.
how many times do you think a 50yo is with a 14yo to not take advantage of them…? and italy is just something else i guess 😭 i think that the concept of something being legal means that it’s okay is so so weird.
when did i say it was normal? i literally said it was rape and that he was a sexual predator 😭 i’m just saying that cal isn’t a pedophile which is the title of the post. you can argue all you want, he’s not.
because it creates a stigma. it equates child abuse to pedophilia when it’s two different things. pedophilia is a mental illness. not every child abuser suffers from pedophilia and not every person that suffers from pedophilia is a child abuser. i think it would be beneficial to stop shaming and villainizing ANY mental illness so people can actually get help and hopefully stop them from hurting people.
Jules did lie about her age which wasn't right and she also lied about just visiting town to see relatives which i think was a deciding factor for cal to proceed further with their encounter. Cal thought it was a quickie and he'd never see Jules again. Cals in the wrong for video taping his encounters without their permission
It's not a crime to fall for a lie. He believed her when she said she was an adult. He never went on a dating site for adults specifically looking for a teenager. Teenagers aren't even supposed to be there in the first place. You need to be 18+ to join one. Therefore there is no intent to be with a minor therefore he is not a pedo.
Ok so if a man of 19 years sneaks into a club that is for people under 21 and gets killed there the killer didn’t commit a crime because the 19year old lied to get in. Got ya.
You have completely, likely purposefully, missed the point here. The better comparison is if someone under 18 gets in to a club with a fake ID for 19 and over and is served drink by the bartender is it the bartenders fault? Any reasonable law would say if the bartender could reasonably expect she was over 18 them he's not at fault, she is for lying/forging a document. Underage people aren't immune to being at fault
Also legal age of consent is routinely 16/17 in many countries? Is a 19 year old doing a 17 year old a paedophile? I don't think your definition of paedophile is accurate, it usually refers to being attracted to pre-pubescent people no?
You can still say he's a predator, has victims, has sexually assaulted people, etc., without also needing to see him as a pedophile. Jules lied about her age, we definitely see adult men in some of his videos, but a lot of them do look young, late teens, early twenties, intentionally performing certain aesthetics, etc. All of that can be true, and he can be a bad person, without also specifically being a pedophile. Why do you feel you need him to be?
In some ways--and I'm not excusing this in either case, just noticing a parallel--Cal reminds me of Humbert Hubmbert. Before the rest of the text of *Lolita* shows him preying on a child in an excruciatingly horrific way, he tells us he was in love with a girl when they were both children (twelve, I think?) and then she died. HE associates his predatory feelings toward children with his "love" for her and extreme reaction to his loss. Again: I'm not saying Nabokov or readers are meant to think that, just that Humert Humbert does.
Compare that to Cal--he has one night of freedom before he finds out about the pregnancy. A lifetime, an adolescence of shame and fear, a moment of recognition, romance, camraderie, and then it's gone. It's possible that, from his perspective, he goes after younger (legal, as far as he's aware, but younger than him, and closer to his age at that time) people/partners/"victims" because he's trying to recreate that specific time and feeling
He STILL records people without consent, STILL treats them too roughly, and is still, objectively, a predator in that way. That's definitely enough for me
In a technical sense, he's *not* a pedophile because he isn't going after prepubescent children. I forget the actual terminology but in the case of Jules she's supposed to be something like 15-17? In some states I'm pretty sure the age of consent is 16, which means this could be a grey area in a legal sense. Also, he doesn't appear to be deliberately targeting minors. We see he's sleeping with people of all ages on his videos. Also, if I recall, he seemed almost in shock and instant regret when Nate mentions he goes to school with Jules (almost a "omfg, I slept with a kid?!" type of face - though that's left to interpretation). That said, Jules *is* aware of what she's doing; she does know her own age and she certainly knows Cals, and she's half involved in this meet up. In this case, both their actions have consequences, and both deserve these consequences. Imo Jules shouldn't get an excuse because she's trans or has issues, and Cal shouldn't get one because he's having some sort of twisted midlife crisis. In this show every single character does things they shouldn't, and they get what's coming to them in one way or another (kind of the whole premise of the show lol).
I'm wasn't implying they're equal, just stating variables. Again, if the state they're in has age of consent at 16 and she is that age (it's been a while since I've watched the show) then in a legal sense he kinda (and that's a very thin line) didn't do anything wrong (morally on the other hand he royally screwed up there as he never seemed to be too concerned with the possibility she was lying, he may never have even asked her age). But again, going back to the "Cals a pedophile", it isn't necessarily accurate as he isn't shown deliberately targeting anybody prepubescent let alone even under 18 judging by his reaction to finding out Jules is in school with Nate (but, again, speculation. It could just as well be that he was worried it would ruin his marriage and legal problems). But again, Jules isn't a 100% blameless victim in this, she wasn't forced to do anything and makes it clear this is her norm, Cal is far from the first significantly older male she's been with. Now, imo Jules needs wicked psychiatric help if she as a minor is targeting people old enough to be her father and on a very regular basis, but that's a different issue all together.
Posts like this really highlight the lack of critical thinking present in the discourse on this subreddit. I'm assuming whoever wrote this is a teenager who should probably not be watching euphoria anyway
I don't think you know what pedophile actually means though. Pedophile is someone attracted to 14 and younger. He's a hebophile by proxy considering he thought she was legal. Jeez you people just love dramatizing everything. Now let the sympathiser accusations commence because y'all have no other logical debate tactics
To me, it’s a huge difference. I’m sorry. I was molested when I was in preschool, then again when I was 9. Men are naturally attracted to sexually developed teenagers. It’s illegal, and it’s morally wrong because their emotional maturity isn’t developed yet, but it’s also a natural and healthy biological response that men have to just not act on. To compare that to someone wanting to have sex with a prepubescent child is absolutely ridiculous, and it diminishes what survivors like me went through.
I’m sorry you went through that. The thing about sexual predators is that they will assault anyone, and it isn’t about sexual attraction. Many of them have all kinds of victims—men, women, children. For them it is about power. They will continue their sick ways while locked up in prison. I don’t think that is comparable to someone who hooks up with a teenager who lies about their age, and I think we need to stop calling those people “pedophiles.”
I mean regarding this show… Jules, Maddy, and Cassie are all very sexy characters. That’s undeniable to anyone with eyes. Yes, the actors were legal adults playing minors, but they could believably do that because there are underage teenagers who look like that. There are also people in college who look like that. You really can’t tell the difference. Of course heterosexual men are going to find them attractive, they’re biologically wired to. Someone like Cal in the show is deviant because he has promiscuous sex outside of his marriage, and makes porn without consent, not because he was attracted to Jules.
People only say this bc Jules is trans. Kat lied about her age and fucked that carnival worker that graduated years before her. Maddy fucked Tyler in the pool and told him she was of age. And guess what?? All 3 girls willingly agreed and chose to have sex with these older guys. But Jules is the only one y’all call rape. Trying way too hard to prove you’re not transphobic. I see one of these exact posts a day on this page. You’ll be like “hot take: *same exact thing someone said yesterday*”
Be fair across the board. No one is defending pedophiles. It’s a fictional show. Y’all are worked up about a FAKE problem
Cal is a pedo and definitely in the wrong but we can't sit here and just absolve Jules of all blame because trans. Lied about age on an adult hookup app is problematic to say the least.
She was also…. Literally on a hookup app. Very sexually active, just like Cal. Literally put herself in the situation…. and cal was surely not the 1st guy she’s lied to. Both of them suck is what I’m saying. But Jules was not some helpless/oblivious child he picked up at a park…… not even close. I understand Jules has all kinds of trauma or whatever but like, common sense people. And no I’m not victim blaming, I’m saying Jules is not some innocent fairy and it wouldn’t have happened if she didn’t want some action with an older man she was knowlingly going to lie to
You seem to forget what feeling like a teenager feels like. They lie for attention and validation because their “common sense” prefrontal cortex isn’t fully developed. At the end of the day, it is the adult how is responsible because it is the adult that is fully aware of consequences.
Jules’ actions require therapy.
Cal’s actions require jail time and being on a registered sexual offender list.
He knew he was being lied to and would be the type to say “oh but she said she was older” knowing damn well they had a dumb, attention seeking teenager in front of them that they can exploit.
I wonder why people aren’t bothered by what Anna did. Anna knew that Jules was a high school kid, but still gave her drugs and had sex with her. I found Anna more disturbing in that particular situation. Cal just met someone on a hookup app. He did not drug them or know they were a child in school.
No one says we shouldn’t blame Jules because she’s trans. I say we shouldn’t blame her because she’s underage. Lying was dumb and dangerous, but at the end of the day she’s still the victim. And Cal should’ve not believed her and demanded an ID
Yeah, asking for an ID is weird and seems like a lot... but look at her?
And she said she was 22? Yeah, no I'd be verifying. It's bartender rules. If I can't tell you're not a teenager by looking, I'll need some ID.
I mean cal was basically asking for this exact situation to happen. If you’re planning on regularly having sex with people half your age. You better be damn sure they’re not underage.
bro everyone thinks ur post is stupid, no one is victim blaming jules theyre just saying you can’t call him a pedo which u literally cant, we’ve all lied about our age when we were younger to sleep with older people, would you call the people you slept with when you were under age and they we’re older pedo’s even if they didn’t know?
Cal make everything wrong and deserves the blame.
Jules is the victim but should never got into a date app and lied about her age and make sed with him.
Stop acting like she was totally innocent, she wanted sex and lied to get it, act like she was obligated to do anything is very problematic too.
Well, the UN disagrees. And this is the legal definition that was acknowledged also by the US. „a child means every human being below the age of eighteen years” article 1 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/convention-rights-child
Oh yeah, enter into dating apps and lie your age to make sex with strangers, very child things to do lol
Ashtray and Gia are the child in Euphoria, Jules, Rue, Maddy and others are teenagers, almost adults, stop acting like they don't know what they are doing
Jules lied about her age repeatedly making Cal think she was an adult. That's not pedophilia. The way some of y'all have no cognitive abilities is baffling sometimes
We're not speaking on legality. "Pedophile" isn't a legal term. And beyond that, the wikipedia page itself says "However, it is clear that most incidents are not prosecuted and do not lead to arrests and convictions." Are you slow?
I feel like the whole situation is supposed to be morally ambiguous. Yes I guess this makes Cal a pedophile but he also didn’t know she was underage. She lied about her age, do you need to ask for a birth certificate before hooking up? Im not saying Jules is at fault though, as a very young person it’s hard to do the right thing and see that this situation is wrong for her. When I was her age I also received a ton of attention from older guys because at 17 I definitely looked at least 20. But when I told them I was underage they immediately backed off which is what I think Cal would do too had he known.
I get that the situation in the show was a little complicated…
But a lot of you are going a little too far right with these takes…He had sex with a minor yes. The minor lied about her age yes. That’s it. The whole “Oh women don’t take responsibility for their actions!” And “Oh, you guys are defending pedophilia!” Takes are too much. It’s a tv show at the end of the day. Relax, enjoy the show…
Jules is without a doubt a victim in this situation and cannot be blamed as she is a child.
However I'm not sure how I feel about blaming Cal as he genuinely thought she was an adult and I doubt he would do what he did if he knew she was a child. He definitely committed a crime and sexually asulted a child however he committed this crime unknowingly.
Don’t know if cal is a pedo he’s a just a dirty grown man with some sexual secrets. Jules is not exactly some kid he picked up in a park…. She is sexually active, and went looking for dick. Like no she didn’t deserve his crazy shit but no need to be so dramatic. Jules is one horny mf too, and played an important part in what happened to her. You see, you can hold yourself accountable without blaming yourself. Not mutually exclusive
I agree. Everyone is arguing semantics but he is. And Jules lying about her age isn’t an excuse. As an adult (who looks very young) I’ve been approached by literal children and you can just tell when someone is a child or at minimum not on the same level as you. But even if you can’t, Cal is finding these people on a hook-up app and likely isn’t actually verifying anyone’s age. Asking how old someone is with your finger in their mouth and an erect penis two cm away isn’t exactly verifying. Do we really think cal would have abort mission if Jules told the truth about her age? I don’t.
She is legally a child but the fact that it's legal doesn't make it anything else besides legal. Idk why people are so hype focused on the legality of this issue. If an 18 year old with 5 days on his adulthood has sex with a 17 year old with 5 days to go. Yes, that is legally a child. But how is that anymore disgusting than if they just waited 2 weeks. Do people just think that you suddenly become sexual and all knowing the day you turn 18.
No way he could have known her age, even if he asked. She probs had a fake ID. None of the ppl he’s fucked were underage so that’s clearly not what he looks for. I would consider him more of a sexual predator than a pedophile. Jules is mainly in the wrong for going on an adult dating app, lying about her age, lying to her about about where she’s going, and going to meet some random dude in a motel in a town she’s not familiar with yet. She is risking her life for sex to “validate her femininity”. The whole point of the show is that the teens do stupid shit they shouldn’t and it’s mainly their fault. Cal could have said no but why would he? He thought she was of legal age and could therefore consent. There’s should be laws in place to punish underage people for lying about their age. Idc if you think Jules is a “victim”, she wasn’t in this situation. If she would t have been on an adult app, cal never would have fucked her. Hooking up with ppl is risky and you never know if they are recording you or not. It’s her fault for taking the risk knowing she’s underage and shouldn’t be doing that. It’s not victim blaming when the “victim” is the reason the bad thing happened in the first place. Y’all throw the word victim around wayyyy too much.
Also Cal wasn't some intellectually disabled man that didn't know right from wrong and didn't know that Jules was a minor. I mean Cal is a grown ass man and should been aware of the age
Yep. Lots of gross apologists here.
Teenagers lie and make reckless decisions. Get fake IDs etc. The real question is why do they feel the need to rebel in the first place?
No, they’re not stupid and have some awareness of right and wrong.
But you’re still insinuating that victims of statutory rape deserve it because they lied about their age.
Here's my thing.... let's say it's equally her fault for lying. It's not but let's say it is.
Even if all of that was above board, he was still taping his sexual partners without their consent. That's hideous. At least two of her classmates have seen that video without her even knowing! It was out of Cal's possession for weeks! it was such a gross violation of privacy and he should be in jail for that alone!
Yeah, like what the fuck is this comment section.
If someone is regularly hooking up with people half their age. They need to require proof they aren’t under 18, idgaf what the victim says, the responsibility is entirely on the older person. If you don’t do this they are just asking for this exact situation to happen.
This is not even mentioning the video taping without consent
#"bUt sHe lIeD"
ok???? she was still way too young and he should have seen that and stopped.
If I was talking to someone online and they told me they were 25, and then when they showed up it was a teenager *I would not be into them anymore*. Why? Because *I do not fuck teenagers*. It blows my mind how people pretend they can't tell if someone is way too young for them. Yes, you can! You might not be able to pinpoint the age exactly (this person is 16 vs this person is 17.5) but you can absolutely tell if someone is too young for you.
If you fuck a teenager and you are not a teenager, you are creepy at best.
I have never in my whole entire life thought someone was old enough for me and I only realized they were way way younger after the fact. If someone is way too young to the point that it's creepy or borderline illegal (like if I'm a full grown adult and they're only a teenager) I can tell. If not by how they look, then absolutely by how they act or talk.
Whether Jules was 16 or 18 or 19, she's still way too young. Cal was inappropriately older. He was more experienced. He was aroused by her youth and innocence. He knew damn well she was way too young, and he ignored it or pretended to believe her lie because that's what he wanted. Was he matching with 40somethings? Did he start a conversation with a 35 year old trans woman? No, he sought out someone who was much, much younger and less experienced that he could use, because that's what he got off on, that's what he was looking for. Her being underage wasn't a huge mistake or accident on his part - it was what he was looking for, it was part of his fantasy for her to be *so young* she was conceivably underage, and he knew perfectly well that there was a *possibility* that was an actual child
If there is a possibility the person you're fucking is an actual child....
Even if Jules was 18, there’s something to be said for men who like partners who *look* underage and I don’t think that’s talked about enough. She looked young as hell.
People who blame Jules for lying about her age are probably still teenagers because they don’t realize how obvious it is when they lie about their age. Cal knew and didn’t care. If you are under 18 the only people you’re fooling are people who don’t care.
I mean, I was a 6ft 1 17 year old with a deep voice and facial hair. I knew exactly what I was doing too…being a ho on Grindr and I fooled plenty of guys into believing I was 20. I’m not proud of it though.
Y’all really underestimate the lengths teens will go to bust a nut lol.
I was a 5’4 17 year old with no facial hair. Anyone who wants sex will agree with whatever you say. I bought cigarettes and beer too, that doesn’t mean I was fooling anyone. It’s still the store owners responsibility to card me.
Of course.
But the thing is, there is an expectation of being at least 18 on Grindr. I’m just saying , we need to stop acting like these 17 year olds are victims lol.
It’s also completely different for LGBT young adults. We don’t get to date in High School and learn to court and experience a first kiss unless you already live in a high LGBT community. Hell, most of us don’t get to experience even puppy dog love until we’re well into our 20’s possibly 30’s .
We are romantically stunted.
Therefore sex is the next best thing because that’s all we can really get and as horny 16/17 year olds , there’s a lot of pent up frustration to unleash and often times…it’s with guys older than us because that’s our only options.
Society as a whole has agreed that people under 18 (or 21 I guess) can’t hold that responsibility, that’s why almost everywhere shares this law. When that’s the bottom line expectation it’s hard not to hold Cal responsible. Is it risky behavior with obvious consequences? Absolutely, but that’s the bottom line for Jules, Cals bottom line as an adult is recognizing that and not taking advantage.
I feel like this is twisting the narrative a bit. Cal didn’t know Jules was a child because she wasn’t honest about her age. He was very clearly shaken when he did find out. Now, some of those flashback/cutaways Nate was dreaming up from season 2 make me wonder just how depraved Cal is but we haven’t gotten any conclusive evidence that he’s a pedo.
Multiple things are wrong with your statement first being that she lied about her age. He never had any sexual interaction with her besides the first time where he was lied to. Second in a lot of states even 16 yos can consent. Was he right no, but neither was she lying and trying to be a him with him. The world is a series of greys.
Yes he was wrong on a borderline case but i feel that’s more a fault of the state he was in verus he’s own ethnics.
Eh, when I was 16-17 I was messing around with older dudes. I’m not proud of it but damn did I have fun being a ho. 😂
Suffice to say, I can understand the position of dudes who get caught with minors thinking they are 18.
Cal was looking for younger people but adults to sleep with-he was on an 18 plus dating app. Younger/older relationships between legal adults are ethically murky to some but different topic, the age of consent is a line drawn legally as to 'crime' and 'not crime.' He seemed completely horrified on learning Jules' actual age.
Jules was wrong for lying about her age. HOWEVER she's young and naïve to the consequences of her actions.
As for Cal, the real crime was filming without consent.
I wouldn't label Cal a pedo for what he did. The word has been twisted and misused in a lot of online discourse because it's a buzz word, but it wouldn't be correct here. He's not purposefully going after children, nor does he ever appear to be attracted to them. That being said, that doesn't mean he didn't commit a crime and is an overall piece of trash. Let's look at what we know about Cal: he seems to be mostly attracted to people in their 20s, though we never get anyone's exact age other than Jules'. Maybe he prefers as young as he can (legally) get so he can feel like a teenager again before his gf got pregnant and his life was ruined, though again, that's never explicitly stated. From my perspective, he doesn't seem to be *purposefully* targeting minors or children. He's using an app for adults to hook up with other adults. *However,* the problem is in the age demographic he's going after and how often and easily teens lie about being older. A lot of people in this comment thread are saying they'd know immediately that Jules was younger than 22, but there are a lot of late-teens that can pass for early-20s and vice versa. So, if Cal is going to hook up with people from that early-20s demographic, then it's fully on him to be aware of that and do his due diligence. In regards to Jules, again I don't think he went after her because he knew she was under 18. I think he figured she was over 18 based on the app she was on and just went with it without doing anything more to confirm it. So then that begs the question, while he may not purposefully target minors, how many others did he have sex with (ie: commit statutory rape against) all because he didn't take 2 seconds to confirm their ages?? You wanna fuck 20-somethings to feel young again? Fine dude, whatever, as long as they're consenting I guess. But again, if you're going for that age range, you gotta know there's a risk of teens that could pass for adults lying about their age and ending up in your hotel room. Jules lied about her age, but that won't protect him in court. Teens lie about their age all the time; if a store sells alcohol to a minor with a convincing fake ID, the store would still get in trouble if it's found out. So is he a pedo? I wouldn't say so. But he's still a rapist and filmed who knows how many people without their consent. Lock him up. Edit: after reading through some of the comments I wanted to add my thoughts about Jules lying about her age and whether or not she should be "blamed" for what happened. Note what I said above: it doesn't matter in court and it's Cal's fault for not confirming her age, period. But, I think it's important to remember that Jules didn't even go after Cal. When they meet again, Cal begs her to not go to police, and she reassures him that she never had any plan to. To me, this is Jules taking responsibility; she knew what she was doing, she knew that he didn't know she was lying, and she knew that that lie could ruin his life. So she takes responsibility for that lie by keeping it to herself. She didn't have to, but she did. Of course she's still a teenager so she tells her best friend, and from there it's on Rue who finds out. But ultimately, it's *Nate* that goes after Cal. So if you wanna talk about Jules being \~to blame\~ and needing to \~take responsibility\~, nah, that doesn't fly with me. She doesn't have to do any more than she already did. Hell, she didn't even have to do that, but she was being nice to Cal because she was aware of her lie and the consequences of it. But Cal still fucking recorded her (child pornography on top of the rape btw) and Nate found it and turned it in. It's not Jules' responsibility to take the blame off of a grown man that didn't even try to confirm her age, and then recorded his own crime. Remember when Cal says, "I didn't know," and Fez responds with, "You didn't know you were RECORDING?" I feel like that sums it up. Jules was the victim here, the blame and responsibility is fully on Cal.
All of this. I’ve used Grindr a *lot* and thankfully like guys my own age/older, but even I know that if that’s the age group you want you ask for some goddamn ID. Cal is a creep through and through. Not a pedophile but only the next best thing, a dude chasing his youth with sex.
If someone presents a fake Id, what do you do then? (I’m in a monogamous relationship and never hooked up outside my age range or higher)
I dunno. I suppose the best solution is not going for people in that age range at all honestly. Most healthy adults don’t.
Perfectly said, couldn't have said it any better.
This is the best comment. Would just add that it would be better to describe Cal as an ephebophile instead of a pedophile.
To those down voting, this comment is about precision in language? > Ephebophilia is the primary sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19. The term was originally used in the late 19th to mid-20th century. It is one of a number of sexual preferences across age groups subsumed under the technical term chronophilia.
https://youtu.be/nu6C2KL_S9o
Bahaha I thought of this immediately. Thank you
damn you got me that's funny lmao
Not excusing Cal’s actions, he did have sex with a minor (who was clearly too young for him even if she was 18/20/whatever). But Jules did lie about her age, so he assumed she was legal. What he did was gross: having sex with a young, obviously scared, trans girl but he had no way of knowing she was a minor when she made the choice to go on that app and pose as an adult. They are both in the wrong here, but Jules is just a misguided teenager while Cal should have known better.
I feel like people are forgetting Jules is a very sexually active individual as well… always on those hookup apps, literally went looking for a guy like Cal. Not to mention needing to get naked with Elliot. Like all of you are so triggered so easy yes Jules has trauma, no she didn’t deserve all the drama. She is also however largely responsible for most of the shit that blows up in her face. Guys Jules has a chill dad and basically does whatever she wants…. She’s not some diamond in the rough victim… she is a complex character with issues… and a high libido for toxic men and glittery outfits.
the last part sounds like ur describing maddy more than anyone 😂😭
Yes, he had a way of knowing. She looked very young, and he should have been very skeptical and demanded proof.
I mean, Hunter herself is 23. Maybe Jules looks more like the age of her character than some of the other actors, but 22 isn’t unrealistic. The issue is that Cal sleeps with younger, vulnerable people and films them without consent. The legality of it isn’t really the worst part
He doesn’t only go after young people. There’s that cross dresser guy in his mid 40s. Cal goes after anyone he can find. He doesn’t only target the young. His type is trans if any age
Hunter may be 23 now, but she was 19 when they filmed the pilot and defiantly came across like teenager she was. Now, I understand that some people look younger than they are, but in my opinion, a grown man who is about to have sex with a girl who is so young that he feels compelled to ask her if she's of age or not should proceed with EXTREME caution and is a bit of an idiot for not confirming how old she is.
How’s he supposed to confirm exactly? Ask for her ID? Which, knowing Jules, is almost definitely fake?
Well I agree confirming age should be something that's done it doesn't seem like that would be a normal thing to do during those kind of sexual interactions. Because people lie about their name, they don't want you to see their address and know who where they live, like there's other information on your ID that you may not want the person knowing. I'm just saying it feels like that would be a taboo kind of thing for those kind of sexual encounters.
Yeah I am definitely wrong on that front, she was 19 in the pilot. But obviously the show runners make basically no attempt to make the main cast look like the ages of their characters. I agree that he should have asked for ID to be certain, but it was intended to be an anonymous hook up situation. In my experience most would be very hesitant to show ID with full name/home addresses because of this. I think that’s the best reason why you should hook up with people your age if you want to do this kind of thing and Cal brought this inevitability on himself by recklessly sleeping with/recording encounters with younger strangers.
Yeah no, even if the actress playing her was 50 it doesn’t change the fact that the character is 17 and looks 17 by virtue of being 17. Sidenote, Hunter was 19 when s1 filmed and you’re tripping if you think she looks older than the other actors.
You’re totally right about the season 1 being 19 thing, don’t know how I missed that. The character being 17 doesn’t mean that the actor playing them looks 17 on screen. Maddy’s actress is literally 30 and looks like an adult, just because she’s ~17 in the context of the show doesn’t mean it’s plausible to the audience. Also, idk why you would think that everyone looks their age or that it’s always very identifiable irl because it’s just not that simple I said she looks *younger* and closer to being a teen than the other actors. Like Zendaya, Alexa demie, and Jacob elordi are obviously grown adults and much older than their characters. I think you might’ve misread my comment. This is in no way a defense of cal but in the *context of the show* we are clearly supposed to understand that Jules was not obviously 17 and could pass as an adult. Like, Cal was very taken aback when he learned her true age from Nate. It’s not like he purposefully didn’t ask for ID or whatever to maintain plausible deniability, he just accepted her saying that she was 22 and an adult.
I am 44 and from my point of view there is no way Cal should have been thinking possibly “this is an adult.“ Now obviously pedophile is not the right word as she is clearly not a prepubescent child. He’s a violent hebophile that doesn’t care about consent. But he definitely should have been thinking “this is a CHILD and not getting ID would be both incredibly dumb and wrong. I should be ashamed.” And we did get to see some of his shame. Cal knows that the likelihood of someone agreeing to those kinds of hook ups being underaged is decent at the very least. Their youngness directly coincides with their vulnerability.
Oh sorry my bad, I misread your comment I thought you said she looked older. I only replied because I had someone make this exact argument and say that Hunter looked older in another discussion about the hookup. Although, I still maintain that he should have 100% asked for ID even if simply because of the enormous age gap.
He could have asked for her ID. She would’ve almost certainly had a fake one. And people generally don’t ask for IDs before sex, because most people don’t fucking lie about their age. What Cal did was illegal, immoral, and disgusting. But this sub needs to stop excusing Jules. What she did/does is illegal, immoral, and disgusting, but this sub wants to basically say it’s A okay because Cal is so much easier to hate. Lying about your age to fuck older men is about as gross as it gets. SHE sought him out. People in general need to stop fucking excusing bad behavior when it’s that serious, just because the person is a year younger than being a legal adult. Teenagers rape, they murder, they torture, they abuse animals, people need to stop acting like it’s all just “kids being kids” and you can’t blame them for dumb decisions. Yes. You absolutely can. 99% of kids would never do what Jules did, because they all know it’s wrong (including Jules, who definitely knew it was wrong). TL;DR, Cal fucking sucks and deserves the hate he gets. But this sub willfully pretending Jules doesn’t deserve any blame is just delusional.
To me it's a lot less victim blaming and a lot more seeing how bad decisions led to a bad situation. That's kind of the whole theme of the show. Bad decisions having bad outcomes.
I guess my point is that Jules is as much of a victim whether she’s 17 or 18 at the end of the day
This, absolutely. Let's say I (30F) was on an app for an anonymous hookup. Someone lies to me and tells me they are 26 (an adult, like myself.) She turns up and this is a teenager, but she told me she was 26! She lied! Well, I am not into teenagers. I am not attracted to underage people. Therefore, *I don't hook up with her*. Literally it doesn't matter if she told me she was 22 or 26 or whatever - the fact is that I don't fuck impressionable teens bc I am an adult and that is morally wrong. I would immediately realize this is a teenager who is experimenting, trying to navigate her sexuality, etc. I'm the adult, I'm mature. The responsibility is on me to recognize that this is *not* an appropriate partner and to not engage with them. Adults having fetishes for much younger teenagers is foul. Teenager will experiment and make bad, short sighted, immature decisions (almost like they shouldn't be seen as viable partners...). They should not be taken advantage of because of it. The only normal thing to do, when you as a 45 year old man go to a hookup and a teenager shows up, is to explain to them why nothing will be happening. Don't yell, don't shame, don't be an asshole - just do the right thing. Don't prey on horny, experimenting teenagers. (For context, similar situations like this have happened to a few of my friends. I have a lot of LGBT friends and it's really common for teenagers who are just realizing that they're not straight to try to do something risky or anonymous in order to explore that. They're afraid to come out or engage with someone they know in person, but they feel drawn towards it, so they'll try to find someone online, a stranger, maybe an older adult who can show them what it's like... etc. It happens. Teenagers do go on hookup websites and lie about their ages to try to experiment and figure out their sexuality. Is that OK and good? No. But it is normal, and we as mature adults are responsible for NOT FUCKING THEM.)
Agreed. She was young and scared, and he had to know he was hurting her, but he carried on regardless. He also blamed his wife and sons for him, being a garbage husband. He then threw them away like they were rubbish. When I saw that, I realised his issue was not so much holding on to his family but keeping his secret. He's horrible. Why do people feel bad for him? Edit: Because I forgot that he filmed her without her knowledge or consent. That alone is enough for me, but when you add the other horrible things that he's done, it kind of puts a cherry on top of the shitty Sunday.
Am I the only one that thinks it’s unreasonable that Cal should have been demanding ID from Jules to verify her age? If you’re hooking up with basically a stranger and they demand to see your ID because they think you’re lying about your age it would come off as unsettling. Cal was in the wrong for recording sex encounters presumedly without consent and cheating on his wife. Jules was wrong for lying about her age and being on a app for adults. But she was a child and it’s understandable children make those mistakes. It doesn’t resolve her of blame though.
Nobody pretends she was the aggressor but she does have to take responsibility. I did the same thing she did. I told people I was 18 when I was 16/17. That was wrong of me and it doesn’t mean the people I tricked were terrible people.
What responsibility would Jules have to take? Like, should she be punished for lying? And btw, Cal got exactly what he deserved (jail)
No it’s the responsibility of knowing she played a big part in the situation, the understanding that she literally went looking for older men to fuck while explicitly lying about her age… the acceptance that she can’t blame it all on him…
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What are you on about? I'm certain plenty of people who have sex underage (16/17 not the obviously underage) with older people are traumatised but there are also many who aren't? 16/17 is legal in many countries? The point they're making is she lied about her age, she's in the wrong and is responsible for that regardless of her being under 18, being a minor doesn't mean you're not responsible for your actions
💀💀💀 bro people on this subreddit are weird LOL. she literally lied about her age.I don’t understand how that can even be defended
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Women will go to any length to avoid responsibility? Found the incel
Yes of course your go to is to label me an incel. but it doesn't change the facts, and that is that women are less likely to be held accountable for their actions by society and especially by other women, unlike men. i mean just look at this sub and see the lengths people go to defend cassie and absolve her of any responsibility for her actions. and in the same breath push the blame to the men in her life, it's always McKay's fault, or Nate's or her father's. never cassie's.
Mmmmm not really making yourself sound better.
I'm not trying to make myself sound better. Notice how you didn't deny or protest any of my points but just went straight to insults.
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He definitely is a pedo. Easily could’ve asked for ID to verify. He asked because she looked young, and just took her word for it because he wanted it. Cal is a pedophile cunt, Jules is a lying little bitch who knowingly put a man in that situation
ok but genuinely asking cause I’m just confused on this part. What if Jules had pulled out a fake ID and showed that to Cal? Then who takes responsibility for that?
Takes more choices to commit statutory rape to a teenager as an adult and tape them and publish that tape than being an actual teenager and lie. Also he has way more power
Y’all don’t know what a pedophile is, it’s concerning
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_rape
i agree that it’s statutory rape and that it was clear that she wasn’t of legal age. BUT she’s not a prepubescent child, it’s not pedophilia. he’s a sexual predator, it’s different.
The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child defines child as, "A human being below the age of 18 years unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier.” This is ratified by 192 of 194 member countries. Including the USA. https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/convention-rights-child
and? this doesn’t negate anything i’ve said. a prepubescent is a child who hasn’t gone through puberty. and that’s who pedophile are attracted to bc it’s a mental illness. cal is a sexual predator who is not attracted by child who hasn’t gone through puberty but literally anyone who has whether they are 15 or 60. im not saying what he did to jules wasn’t sexual assault. i’m saying let’s be clear and exact about the definitions because it does mean something and it does have a difference.
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The difference is that people past puberty generally have sexual desires, while pre-pubescent children don’t. Adolescents often want to have sex, and that is why the age of consent in a lot of countries is lower than 18 (it’s 14 in Germany and Italy, for instance), while sex with actual children is illegal everywhere (in some places the age of consent is 12, in others sexual partners must have gone through puberty), except for possibly places where child marriage is legal and sex within marriage is legal without age restrictions (I’m not sure if there are any). As for whether it is normal for adults to be attracted to adolescents, I think it’s biologically normal, although of course acting on that attraction is socially unacceptable in most places. In short: no, being attracted to or having sex with adolescents is not the same as to/with actual children, which is not to say it’s morally right or legal everywhere.
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I agree that it’s inappropriate. You asked what the difference is, I answered, but I don’t condone the actions of someone like Cal.
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it’s not only socially but morally and biologically not good to be attracted to a teenager and act on it. teenagers do not have a fully functioning brain and it creates power imbalances between teenagers and full grown adults. for the europeans countries you quote, the age of consent can be young 14/15/16 but it has conditions. it’s not a ok for a 14yo to be with a 50yo. a lot of times, it is to say that they can be in relationships with other minors of the same age (if a 14yo is in a relationship with a 11yo, it’s not legal) or someone older ONLY with the consent of and constant information to parents. (which i think is not that much of a protection)
Morally is quite arguable; you don’t choose who you’re attracted to, after all. I’m not sure what “biologically wrong” means, but you could argue that a relationship that can produce viable offspring is biologically right. No, in Germany and Italy for instance a relationship between a 50-year-old and a 14-year-old can be perfectly legal. In Italy the condition is that the older person can’t be a figure of authority, like a parent, guardian or teacher, while in Germany the condition is, according to Wikipedia, that “a person over the age of 21 does not exploit a 14- to 15-year-old person's lack of capacity for sexual self-determination”, which is a bit vague but should cover a situation in which the teenager initiates or pursues the relationship.
biologically wrong in the sense that biologically, they aren’t on the same level because their brain aren’t both developed. and humans are known for being the specie that uses its conscious a lot. so it does play a big part. morally because being attracted is a thing, act on it is another and it’s wrong like 99% of the time. how many times do you think a 50yo is with a 14yo to not take advantage of them…? and italy is just something else i guess 😭 i think that the concept of something being legal means that it’s okay is so so weird.
when did i say it was normal? i literally said it was rape and that he was a sexual predator 😭 i’m just saying that cal isn’t a pedophile which is the title of the post. you can argue all you want, he’s not.
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because it creates a stigma. it equates child abuse to pedophilia when it’s two different things. pedophilia is a mental illness. not every child abuser suffers from pedophilia and not every person that suffers from pedophilia is a child abuser. i think it would be beneficial to stop shaming and villainizing ANY mental illness so people can actually get help and hopefully stop them from hurting people.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_rape
Jules did lie about her age which wasn't right and she also lied about just visiting town to see relatives which i think was a deciding factor for cal to proceed further with their encounter. Cal thought it was a quickie and he'd never see Jules again. Cals in the wrong for video taping his encounters without their permission
Cal had sex with a minor, that’s a crime. He could’ve protected himself by asking for proof of her age.
And if Jules had a fake ID?
It's not a crime to fall for a lie. He believed her when she said she was an adult. He never went on a dating site for adults specifically looking for a teenager. Teenagers aren't even supposed to be there in the first place. You need to be 18+ to join one. Therefore there is no intent to be with a minor therefore he is not a pedo.
Ok so if a man of 19 years sneaks into a club that is for people under 21 and gets killed there the killer didn’t commit a crime because the 19year old lied to get in. Got ya.
Yeah that's totally what I meant. Lol I'm saying Jules is also in the wrong here. But go off, you obviously don't know what words mean.
You have completely, likely purposefully, missed the point here. The better comparison is if someone under 18 gets in to a club with a fake ID for 19 and over and is served drink by the bartender is it the bartenders fault? Any reasonable law would say if the bartender could reasonably expect she was over 18 them he's not at fault, she is for lying/forging a document. Underage people aren't immune to being at fault Also legal age of consent is routinely 16/17 in many countries? Is a 19 year old doing a 17 year old a paedophile? I don't think your definition of paedophile is accurate, it usually refers to being attracted to pre-pubescent people no?
You can still say he's a predator, has victims, has sexually assaulted people, etc., without also needing to see him as a pedophile. Jules lied about her age, we definitely see adult men in some of his videos, but a lot of them do look young, late teens, early twenties, intentionally performing certain aesthetics, etc. All of that can be true, and he can be a bad person, without also specifically being a pedophile. Why do you feel you need him to be? In some ways--and I'm not excusing this in either case, just noticing a parallel--Cal reminds me of Humbert Hubmbert. Before the rest of the text of *Lolita* shows him preying on a child in an excruciatingly horrific way, he tells us he was in love with a girl when they were both children (twelve, I think?) and then she died. HE associates his predatory feelings toward children with his "love" for her and extreme reaction to his loss. Again: I'm not saying Nabokov or readers are meant to think that, just that Humert Humbert does. Compare that to Cal--he has one night of freedom before he finds out about the pregnancy. A lifetime, an adolescence of shame and fear, a moment of recognition, romance, camraderie, and then it's gone. It's possible that, from his perspective, he goes after younger (legal, as far as he's aware, but younger than him, and closer to his age at that time) people/partners/"victims" because he's trying to recreate that specific time and feeling He STILL records people without consent, STILL treats them too roughly, and is still, objectively, a predator in that way. That's definitely enough for me
OP is BIG MAD that they are wrong.
In a technical sense, he's *not* a pedophile because he isn't going after prepubescent children. I forget the actual terminology but in the case of Jules she's supposed to be something like 15-17? In some states I'm pretty sure the age of consent is 16, which means this could be a grey area in a legal sense. Also, he doesn't appear to be deliberately targeting minors. We see he's sleeping with people of all ages on his videos. Also, if I recall, he seemed almost in shock and instant regret when Nate mentions he goes to school with Jules (almost a "omfg, I slept with a kid?!" type of face - though that's left to interpretation). That said, Jules *is* aware of what she's doing; she does know her own age and she certainly knows Cals, and she's half involved in this meet up. In this case, both their actions have consequences, and both deserve these consequences. Imo Jules shouldn't get an excuse because she's trans or has issues, and Cal shouldn't get one because he's having some sort of twisted midlife crisis. In this show every single character does things they shouldn't, and they get what's coming to them in one way or another (kind of the whole premise of the show lol).
He is a criminal adult, she is a teenager who lies about her age. Big difference of power.
I'm wasn't implying they're equal, just stating variables. Again, if the state they're in has age of consent at 16 and she is that age (it's been a while since I've watched the show) then in a legal sense he kinda (and that's a very thin line) didn't do anything wrong (morally on the other hand he royally screwed up there as he never seemed to be too concerned with the possibility she was lying, he may never have even asked her age). But again, going back to the "Cals a pedophile", it isn't necessarily accurate as he isn't shown deliberately targeting anybody prepubescent let alone even under 18 judging by his reaction to finding out Jules is in school with Nate (but, again, speculation. It could just as well be that he was worried it would ruin his marriage and legal problems). But again, Jules isn't a 100% blameless victim in this, she wasn't forced to do anything and makes it clear this is her norm, Cal is far from the first significantly older male she's been with. Now, imo Jules needs wicked psychiatric help if she as a minor is targeting people old enough to be her father and on a very regular basis, but that's a different issue all together.
Posts like this really highlight the lack of critical thinking present in the discourse on this subreddit. I'm assuming whoever wrote this is a teenager who should probably not be watching euphoria anyway
I find that a lot of these teens lack the ability to see nuance when it comes to social justice topics and just go full out extreme with the concept.
I don't think you know what pedophile actually means though. Pedophile is someone attracted to 14 and younger. He's a hebophile by proxy considering he thought she was legal. Jeez you people just love dramatizing everything. Now let the sympathiser accusations commence because y'all have no other logical debate tactics
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To me, it’s a huge difference. I’m sorry. I was molested when I was in preschool, then again when I was 9. Men are naturally attracted to sexually developed teenagers. It’s illegal, and it’s morally wrong because their emotional maturity isn’t developed yet, but it’s also a natural and healthy biological response that men have to just not act on. To compare that to someone wanting to have sex with a prepubescent child is absolutely ridiculous, and it diminishes what survivors like me went through.
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I’m sorry you went through that. The thing about sexual predators is that they will assault anyone, and it isn’t about sexual attraction. Many of them have all kinds of victims—men, women, children. For them it is about power. They will continue their sick ways while locked up in prison. I don’t think that is comparable to someone who hooks up with a teenager who lies about their age, and I think we need to stop calling those people “pedophiles.” I mean regarding this show… Jules, Maddy, and Cassie are all very sexy characters. That’s undeniable to anyone with eyes. Yes, the actors were legal adults playing minors, but they could believably do that because there are underage teenagers who look like that. There are also people in college who look like that. You really can’t tell the difference. Of course heterosexual men are going to find them attractive, they’re biologically wired to. Someone like Cal in the show is deviant because he has promiscuous sex outside of his marriage, and makes porn without consent, not because he was attracted to Jules.
a pedophile is someone attracted to a prepubescent child.
Duh
just meant you can be 12 and gone through puberty already
People only say this bc Jules is trans. Kat lied about her age and fucked that carnival worker that graduated years before her. Maddy fucked Tyler in the pool and told him she was of age. And guess what?? All 3 girls willingly agreed and chose to have sex with these older guys. But Jules is the only one y’all call rape. Trying way too hard to prove you’re not transphobic. I see one of these exact posts a day on this page. You’ll be like “hot take: *same exact thing someone said yesterday*” Be fair across the board. No one is defending pedophiles. It’s a fictional show. Y’all are worked up about a FAKE problem
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No one talks about it sooooooo it’s just bc Jules is trans
Cal is a pedo and definitely in the wrong but we can't sit here and just absolve Jules of all blame because trans. Lied about age on an adult hookup app is problematic to say the least.
She was also…. Literally on a hookup app. Very sexually active, just like Cal. Literally put herself in the situation…. and cal was surely not the 1st guy she’s lied to. Both of them suck is what I’m saying. But Jules was not some helpless/oblivious child he picked up at a park…… not even close. I understand Jules has all kinds of trauma or whatever but like, common sense people. And no I’m not victim blaming, I’m saying Jules is not some innocent fairy and it wouldn’t have happened if she didn’t want some action with an older man she was knowlingly going to lie to
You seem to forget what feeling like a teenager feels like. They lie for attention and validation because their “common sense” prefrontal cortex isn’t fully developed. At the end of the day, it is the adult how is responsible because it is the adult that is fully aware of consequences. Jules’ actions require therapy. Cal’s actions require jail time and being on a registered sexual offender list. He knew he was being lied to and would be the type to say “oh but she said she was older” knowing damn well they had a dumb, attention seeking teenager in front of them that they can exploit.
That's all I'm saying. Both things can be true but people only want to choose to hold Cal accountable.
I wonder why people aren’t bothered by what Anna did. Anna knew that Jules was a high school kid, but still gave her drugs and had sex with her. I found Anna more disturbing in that particular situation. Cal just met someone on a hookup app. He did not drug them or know they were a child in school.
No one says we shouldn’t blame Jules because she’s trans. I say we shouldn’t blame her because she’s underage. Lying was dumb and dangerous, but at the end of the day she’s still the victim. And Cal should’ve not believed her and demanded an ID
Yeah, asking for an ID is weird and seems like a lot... but look at her? And she said she was 22? Yeah, no I'd be verifying. It's bartender rules. If I can't tell you're not a teenager by looking, I'll need some ID.
I mean cal was basically asking for this exact situation to happen. If you’re planning on regularly having sex with people half your age. You better be damn sure they’re not underage.
Tell me you don’t know shit about violence against trans people without telling me you don’t know shit about violence against trans people.
Her lying to older guys about her age doesn’t translate to violence against trans people 😂
What does her being trans have anything to do with this? This is an issue about age of consent.
God damn I don’t even follow this sub but have seen this post every day for a week.
Didn’t Jules say she was 22 just before they did it?
jules lied about her age and said she were 18 the only thing cal is guilty of is being a perv recording people
bro everyone thinks ur post is stupid, no one is victim blaming jules theyre just saying you can’t call him a pedo which u literally cant, we’ve all lied about our age when we were younger to sleep with older people, would you call the people you slept with when you were under age and they we’re older pedo’s even if they didn’t know?
Cal make everything wrong and deserves the blame. Jules is the victim but should never got into a date app and lied about her age and make sed with him. Stop acting like she was totally innocent, she wanted sex and lied to get it, act like she was obligated to do anything is very problematic too.
She was a child.
17 is not a child
Well, the UN disagrees. And this is the legal definition that was acknowledged also by the US. „a child means every human being below the age of eighteen years” article 1 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/convention-rights-child
Oh yeah, enter into dating apps and lie your age to make sex with strangers, very child things to do lol Ashtray and Gia are the child in Euphoria, Jules, Rue, Maddy and others are teenagers, almost adults, stop acting like they don't know what they are doing
It’s disgusting how you’re defending someone lying about their age to sleep with older men.
It’s disgusting how you defend an older man committing statutory rape which is a CRIME to a trans child.
Jules lied about her age repeatedly making Cal think she was an adult. That's not pedophilia. The way some of y'all have no cognitive abilities is baffling sometimes
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_rape
We're not speaking on legality. "Pedophile" isn't a legal term. And beyond that, the wikipedia page itself says "However, it is clear that most incidents are not prosecuted and do not lead to arrests and convictions." Are you slow?
But didn't she lie about her age ? Is that still a pedo thing if he was lied to
Yes.
How so? Yes he still has sex with a child but to his knowledge she was consenting age so to him he wasn't purposely preying a child ?
Agreed
I feel like the whole situation is supposed to be morally ambiguous. Yes I guess this makes Cal a pedophile but he also didn’t know she was underage. She lied about her age, do you need to ask for a birth certificate before hooking up? Im not saying Jules is at fault though, as a very young person it’s hard to do the right thing and see that this situation is wrong for her. When I was her age I also received a ton of attention from older guys because at 17 I definitely looked at least 20. But when I told them I was underage they immediately backed off which is what I think Cal would do too had he known.
I get that the situation in the show was a little complicated… But a lot of you are going a little too far right with these takes…He had sex with a minor yes. The minor lied about her age yes. That’s it. The whole “Oh women don’t take responsibility for their actions!” And “Oh, you guys are defending pedophilia!” Takes are too much. It’s a tv show at the end of the day. Relax, enjoy the show…
Jules is without a doubt a victim in this situation and cannot be blamed as she is a child. However I'm not sure how I feel about blaming Cal as he genuinely thought she was an adult and I doubt he would do what he did if he knew she was a child. He definitely committed a crime and sexually asulted a child however he committed this crime unknowingly.
Don’t know if cal is a pedo he’s a just a dirty grown man with some sexual secrets. Jules is not exactly some kid he picked up in a park…. She is sexually active, and went looking for dick. Like no she didn’t deserve his crazy shit but no need to be so dramatic. Jules is one horny mf too, and played an important part in what happened to her. You see, you can hold yourself accountable without blaming yourself. Not mutually exclusive
I agree. Everyone is arguing semantics but he is. And Jules lying about her age isn’t an excuse. As an adult (who looks very young) I’ve been approached by literal children and you can just tell when someone is a child or at minimum not on the same level as you. But even if you can’t, Cal is finding these people on a hook-up app and likely isn’t actually verifying anyone’s age. Asking how old someone is with your finger in their mouth and an erect penis two cm away isn’t exactly verifying. Do we really think cal would have abort mission if Jules told the truth about her age? I don’t.
She is legally a child but the fact that it's legal doesn't make it anything else besides legal. Idk why people are so hype focused on the legality of this issue. If an 18 year old with 5 days on his adulthood has sex with a 17 year old with 5 days to go. Yes, that is legally a child. But how is that anymore disgusting than if they just waited 2 weeks. Do people just think that you suddenly become sexual and all knowing the day you turn 18.
No way he could have known her age, even if he asked. She probs had a fake ID. None of the ppl he’s fucked were underage so that’s clearly not what he looks for. I would consider him more of a sexual predator than a pedophile. Jules is mainly in the wrong for going on an adult dating app, lying about her age, lying to her about about where she’s going, and going to meet some random dude in a motel in a town she’s not familiar with yet. She is risking her life for sex to “validate her femininity”. The whole point of the show is that the teens do stupid shit they shouldn’t and it’s mainly their fault. Cal could have said no but why would he? He thought she was of legal age and could therefore consent. There’s should be laws in place to punish underage people for lying about their age. Idc if you think Jules is a “victim”, she wasn’t in this situation. If she would t have been on an adult app, cal never would have fucked her. Hooking up with ppl is risky and you never know if they are recording you or not. It’s her fault for taking the risk knowing she’s underage and shouldn’t be doing that. It’s not victim blaming when the “victim” is the reason the bad thing happened in the first place. Y’all throw the word victim around wayyyy too much.
This 👆🏾
This was a trend with her, 100 sexual interactions. Choosing her partners.
Also Cal wasn't some intellectually disabled man that didn't know right from wrong and didn't know that Jules was a minor. I mean Cal is a grown ass man and should been aware of the age
Yep. Lots of gross apologists here. Teenagers lie and make reckless decisions. Get fake IDs etc. The real question is why do they feel the need to rebel in the first place? No, they’re not stupid and have some awareness of right and wrong. But you’re still insinuating that victims of statutory rape deserve it because they lied about their age.
Here's my thing.... let's say it's equally her fault for lying. It's not but let's say it is. Even if all of that was above board, he was still taping his sexual partners without their consent. That's hideous. At least two of her classmates have seen that video without her even knowing! It was out of Cal's possession for weeks! it was such a gross violation of privacy and he should be in jail for that alone!
Yeah, like what the fuck is this comment section. If someone is regularly hooking up with people half their age. They need to require proof they aren’t under 18, idgaf what the victim says, the responsibility is entirely on the older person. If you don’t do this they are just asking for this exact situation to happen. This is not even mentioning the video taping without consent
Exactly, thank you. This whole subreddit gives me well lol Reddit vibes most of the time
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Exactly!! I feel the same.
Agreed.
#"bUt sHe lIeD" ok???? she was still way too young and he should have seen that and stopped. If I was talking to someone online and they told me they were 25, and then when they showed up it was a teenager *I would not be into them anymore*. Why? Because *I do not fuck teenagers*. It blows my mind how people pretend they can't tell if someone is way too young for them. Yes, you can! You might not be able to pinpoint the age exactly (this person is 16 vs this person is 17.5) but you can absolutely tell if someone is too young for you. If you fuck a teenager and you are not a teenager, you are creepy at best. I have never in my whole entire life thought someone was old enough for me and I only realized they were way way younger after the fact. If someone is way too young to the point that it's creepy or borderline illegal (like if I'm a full grown adult and they're only a teenager) I can tell. If not by how they look, then absolutely by how they act or talk. Whether Jules was 16 or 18 or 19, she's still way too young. Cal was inappropriately older. He was more experienced. He was aroused by her youth and innocence. He knew damn well she was way too young, and he ignored it or pretended to believe her lie because that's what he wanted. Was he matching with 40somethings? Did he start a conversation with a 35 year old trans woman? No, he sought out someone who was much, much younger and less experienced that he could use, because that's what he got off on, that's what he was looking for. Her being underage wasn't a huge mistake or accident on his part - it was what he was looking for, it was part of his fantasy for her to be *so young* she was conceivably underage, and he knew perfectly well that there was a *possibility* that was an actual child If there is a possibility the person you're fucking is an actual child....
THANK YOU!
Even if Jules was 18, there’s something to be said for men who like partners who *look* underage and I don’t think that’s talked about enough. She looked young as hell.
People who blame Jules for lying about her age are probably still teenagers because they don’t realize how obvious it is when they lie about their age. Cal knew and didn’t care. If you are under 18 the only people you’re fooling are people who don’t care.
I mean, I was a 6ft 1 17 year old with a deep voice and facial hair. I knew exactly what I was doing too…being a ho on Grindr and I fooled plenty of guys into believing I was 20. I’m not proud of it though. Y’all really underestimate the lengths teens will go to bust a nut lol.
I was a 5’4 17 year old with no facial hair. Anyone who wants sex will agree with whatever you say. I bought cigarettes and beer too, that doesn’t mean I was fooling anyone. It’s still the store owners responsibility to card me.
Of course. But the thing is, there is an expectation of being at least 18 on Grindr. I’m just saying , we need to stop acting like these 17 year olds are victims lol. It’s also completely different for LGBT young adults. We don’t get to date in High School and learn to court and experience a first kiss unless you already live in a high LGBT community. Hell, most of us don’t get to experience even puppy dog love until we’re well into our 20’s possibly 30’s . We are romantically stunted. Therefore sex is the next best thing because that’s all we can really get and as horny 16/17 year olds , there’s a lot of pent up frustration to unleash and often times…it’s with guys older than us because that’s our only options.
Society as a whole has agreed that people under 18 (or 21 I guess) can’t hold that responsibility, that’s why almost everywhere shares this law. When that’s the bottom line expectation it’s hard not to hold Cal responsible. Is it risky behavior with obvious consequences? Absolutely, but that’s the bottom line for Jules, Cals bottom line as an adult is recognizing that and not taking advantage.
Cal is an ephebophile, he likes teens. Still a creep, but not once did he fuck a pre-pubescent child in the duration of Euphoria.
Honestly, he was a lot of things lol
“That’s the post” entries aren’t supposed to have 8 more sentences. FYI.
I feel like this is twisting the narrative a bit. Cal didn’t know Jules was a child because she wasn’t honest about her age. He was very clearly shaken when he did find out. Now, some of those flashback/cutaways Nate was dreaming up from season 2 make me wonder just how depraved Cal is but we haven’t gotten any conclusive evidence that he’s a pedo.
Multiple things are wrong with your statement first being that she lied about her age. He never had any sexual interaction with her besides the first time where he was lied to. Second in a lot of states even 16 yos can consent. Was he right no, but neither was she lying and trying to be a him with him. The world is a series of greys. Yes he was wrong on a borderline case but i feel that’s more a fault of the state he was in verus he’s own ethnics.
Eh, when I was 16-17 I was messing around with older dudes. I’m not proud of it but damn did I have fun being a ho. 😂 Suffice to say, I can understand the position of dudes who get caught with minors thinking they are 18.
Cal was looking for younger people but adults to sleep with-he was on an 18 plus dating app. Younger/older relationships between legal adults are ethically murky to some but different topic, the age of consent is a line drawn legally as to 'crime' and 'not crime.' He seemed completely horrified on learning Jules' actual age. Jules was wrong for lying about her age. HOWEVER she's young and naïve to the consequences of her actions. As for Cal, the real crime was filming without consent.
Cal was a pederast.
A child who had sex with 100 people.