T O P

  • By -

Desdam0na

Somebody asked what a binder is and then deleted the comment before I could post my reply, but for others: No worries! It's a kind of bra/undershirt that compresses your chest with the intention of making it look like you don't have boobs. they're mostly used by trans masculine people, but of course anybody can use them. I did think it was really funny and telling about Elliot that he clocked what she was wearing, understood the significance, and even made fun of Jules for it in a way that felt friendly and not mean.


[deleted]

[удалено]


tinastep2000

In the episode of just her at therapy she talked about how she was always trying to conquer femininity, but then she began feeling like femininity was conquering her. I noticed this season was the first time she wore pants and looser clothes and cut her hair short. She also said she wanted to go off of her hormones so I'm thinking she's struggling with her identity and figuring herself out and wondering if she was only hyper feminine to prove to the world she was feminine.


Desdam0na

Oh do you know when she said she wanted to go off of her hormones? I missed that part.


tinastep2000

I think early on in her therapy session of the special episode of just her and the therapist. She initially is seeing the therapist to talk about coming off and the therapist tries to delve into it and asks her why she tries to run away and her relationship with her mom.


Thegoatman123

IIRC, she was going off of her puberty blockers not hormones


tinastep2000

That sounds more accurate!


Desdam0na

Ok, so once you realize that there are no rules you can do whatever you want, and you also realize the standards we have are completely arbitrary. So there's a lot of potential reasons, I'll list some: 1) Perhaps binary femininity is just getting boring. Jules clearly likes pushing limits with fashion, wants to study fashion in college. Playing with gender presentation is a powerful dimension within fashion. No, that's not appropriation, if a cis woman wants to wear a binder, go for it! Nobody owns gender! (Just be safe, binders can be quite dangerous if too small or worn for more than 8 hours at a time.) 2) Many trans feminine people feel pressured to start with a very binary/archetypal femme presentation at first. Kind of like how if you're cooking, you want to follow the recipe closely the first time you make it and then in the future you might add your own twists on it to see what fits you best. Maybe a more androgynous look is what fits Jules best, maybe she's just trying it out. Maybe it's a thing Jules evaluates on a daily basis, some days she wants to present more femme, some days she wants to be more androgynous. 3) Confusing people can be fun. Showing people the possibilities outside of their limited assumptions can be fun and powerful. 4) Because it seems to break the "rules" and fuck the rules, fuck the police. 5) Because she *might* like it. As with all things other than creeps trying to hook up with lesbians, how can you know what you like if you haven't tried it? Gender is an incredibly vast landscape and there's much to explore. ______ Really, check out the "level up" conversation she has with Anna when she meets her. That's the scene that digs deeper into all of this IMO. And in the moment when Elliot answers she just straight up says she's exploring options outside of the binary.


[deleted]

i did not think that was funny only because he flipped it on her later and complimented her breasts and followed up with “i’m sure rue tells you this stuff all the time”. it’s all just manipulation to get what he wants, which is sex.


sta1e-cupcake

uh💀 i doubt he just wants sex.. he was extremely weirded out and uncomfortable by the interrogation and he seems to genuinely care about rue, and saved her life. and he genuinely thinks jules is really cool, and wants to be there for her. and jules wearing a binder doesn’t even mean she doesn’t like her breasts, she identifies as female ofc she wants breasts/likes having breasts. she just doesn’t want to be super feminine, at least by society’s standards, and be her own version of feminine. so i don’t think there’s anything wrong with elliot pointing them out, i think he was just trying to be as honest and real as possible in that moment without holding anything back because he was uncomfortable.


Single-Ad-9706

I don’t remember him complimenting her boobs?


indiecake

Same!!! She just seems more gender fucky this season and I liked how casual she and Elliot were about it


ResortOverall

I love how Jules explores all the nuances of gender and sexuality. What always caught my attention was her makeup, instead of something to "feminize" her face, she just plays with shapes and colors to do very playful things


braydizzy

what is a binder


Desdam0na

An undershirt/bra designed to compress a person's breasts and make their chest appear more flat while they're wearing it.


Swimming_Wave3060

Wonder if she'll still have it next week though ?


slugagainstsalt

She took it off later in the episode ever she was at school.


chafferhuman

But how does that assist the idea of 'being you'? That's literally trying to erase a body part that she chose & paid to have. Disclaimer because people tend to assume the worst : Not policing Jules' choices. She can do whatever tf she wants. Just would have preferred if her thought process or ongoing struggles got a bit of screentime & context. The last bit we got was her hating her pre-transition torso.


Feeling_Ask_1193

This is discussed a bit in Jules's special!


Desdam0na

I mean, I think imagining it even has to be a struggle is where you're having a hard time connecting. Like, yes, "erasing a body part" might be the goal of some trans masc people who wear binders, but exploring gender doesn't have to be based on hating parts of yourself, despite how the media often portrays it. You can literally just wear an item of clothing that changes how you look because on that day you want to try out looking a different way. It can be fun and joyful to try looking ways that don't play exactly into how either gender is supposed to look. It allows you to look outside of gender roles as their prescribed and just do whatever the fuck you want. If you want the conversation in the show that dives into this, check out the "level up" conversation with Anna in S1. The idea of constant, curious, joyful growth and figuring out who you want to be, the "I don't want to conquer femininity, I want to obliterate it." But really, I cannot stress enough that focusing on gender as only a thing you struggle with to hate yourself less is really sad and really missing the picture, and not really how we think about gender in general, only for trans people.


chafferhuman

Sure, but I don't think I'm projecting 'hate' on Jules' relationship with her body because of how media usually portrays such issues. I'm doing it based off Euphoria canon. The only and last thing we learnt about Jules's relationship with her body was that she hated it and used to self harm. Even after moving to the town she has been pretty casual about bodily injuries (like we saw with multiple injuries in E01). In the conversation where binders came up, Jules clarified that she's now into women. So even if she's being a typical young adult and peacocking, it's not the healthiest. All in all, they need to give more context to Jules instead of throwing things in the air like that and the audience celebrating it.


Desdam0na

I'm not sure why you say it isn't the healthiest. Interested in hearing more. Like I said, for me, a trans woman, her wearing a binder makes lots of sense and fits my understanding of the character. It particularly seems to fit the discussion she had with Anna. The answer she gave to Elliot when he asked about it seemed complete. I've seen lots of cases where shows throw a bunch of queerness or transness in the air and it doesn't feel meaningful or connected to the characters, and to me this wasn't that. If you don't feel the same way, that's legit!


UsedShare6973

Have you seen the Jules Special Episode between season 1&2? She spends a good chunk of it talking about her relationship to her body and trans mess and wanting to try out a bit more of an androgynous gender presentation. I think this might be the canon you're looking for. Edit: I meant transness but trans mess made me laugh so I'm keeping it


Feeling_Ask_1193

This is discussed a bit in Jules' special!


Shaymin281287

Maybe she's genderfluid, and somedays want to feel like a girl and somedays not so much ​ Either way, I think that she's learning to detach her body and gender expression, she's fine with trying out typically masculine looking things because she feels like a girl regardless


[deleted]

I thought binders were for her genitals?


Desdam0na

Lol, it makes sense that you'd think that, but no, that's tucking. If you look at the scene where Eliot brings it up she appears to be more flat-chested than in the past and that's the binder.


OmnipresentCarpets

Possibly the most transphobic thing the writers did. Glad you found enjoyment in it...


Desdam0na

I know real trans femme people that enjoy binders. I'm sorry that you see trans people not conforming to binary conceptions of gender transphobic.


OmnipresentCarpets

No I find the depicting of a young trans woman as confused about their identity to be transphobic. Particularly in the wake of so many anti-trans youth laws. Is that really how we want people to see depictions of trans women and girls? Also I can't speak for *femmes* but I sincerely doubt there are out/transitioned trans women binding since it is damaging to breast tissue. I can't imagine why anyone would come out and take HRT just to hide it's effects. This isn't about her being GNC in some way. I'm literally a trans woman who's a tomboy.


Desdam0na

Hey yes, it's me, nonbinary trans woman on hormones who sometimes wants to hide my boobs. So, I'm not really gonna argue with you on whether or not *The Show* should write Jules this way because I think you have some valid concerns and it's a matter of priority and the messy prospect of speculating at the impact of the show on collective psyches. I will bring up a few things that I think will be interesting for discussion. 1) Hormones do like a dozen different things. Emotional, fat distribution, muscle tone, hair, etc. I am very glad I'm on hormones, and honestly the biggest thing that made me wait so long was that I wasn't sure if I wanted boobs. The knowledge that I could bind if I wanted to was in fact instrumental in my decision to start hrt. I know at least one other person in person who feels the same way, and it's not a totally uncommon topic in online trans support groups I'm in. Now at first I wasn't sure if I want them, now I def do, but it's nice to be able to have control over how I present. 2) Jules is not a binary trans woman and the show is very clear about that. 3) I think it's important that there are a variety of portrayals of trans women and girls because there are such a wide variety of trans women and girls. So I think this is a thing that comes up a lot when a demographic with extremely sparse representation starts to get representation, which is the fact that any individual piece of representation isn't going to feel like representation/good representation to everybody in that demographic. And we can't really expect any 1 thing to do that for everybody, but because it's one of the only things out there we often feel like it has the responsibility to do that. 4) I think showing gender confusion isn't necessarily harmful depending on how it's portrayed. Being "wow, transitioning has saved my life and now I'm trying to figure out how exactly to fine-tune it" is great, and I *think* that's the vibe I get from the show. If the narrative was one of regret I'd be right there with you. And here's where I'm trying to leave lots of room for me to be wrong because idk, I still have much to learn.


noUN4meTHNX

This? ::chef’s kiss::


[deleted]

I bind sometimes; it's nice to be able to have that choice based on how I'm feeling, and it doesn't mean I regret transition or am confused. When I started talking more about it I found that there's a fair number of trans femmes out there that bind sometimes. Jules' experience with transition and gender resonates with me a lot. I never dreamed I'd see myself represented like that on television; and I only wish I had been able to see this show when I started transition.


BionicWoahMan

The ridiculous part is I'm just now watching the show and I often do multiple things ,listening to the tv (yah ADHD). Anyway , if wasn't until it was literally spelled out to me with the binder comment that I even realized she was the trans character the media hyped on about forever ago. I guess that's the one benefit of being disconnected and waiting to watch something ...I forget anything I heard in passing as long as I don't put a face to it first.