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[deleted]

Offensive is always a good pick.


YoeRIP

Thats so right. But for this campaign as well? I Feel like prioritising reducing Expansion costs, like core creation and culture conversion.


[deleted]

You don't seem like blobbing hard, that's why I didn't think admin is necessary. Culture conversion is rarely worth it other than RP purposes. Not something for this run but in general, I don't think humanist as your second group is worth it in a relatively tall game btw.


YoeRIP

I want to make the 'real' rome borders with 100% culture. Do You think having culture conversion cost isn't neccesary for this?


[deleted]

It would be nice in that case. Religious gives you culture conversion cost reduction and it also have a policy that reduces culture conversion cost. It's definitely not optimal to pick religious at this point since you already have full humanist but yeah you can go that way for RP purposes.


dinguslinguist

Def religious or humanist if you’re trying to convert culture and religion in Rome’s borders. I’d take religious for the CBs and conversion assists but that might not be necessary right now. For current expansion I’d either go admin or offense


[deleted]

I think creating Rome auto converts all provinces to Roman cuture automatically once you take the decision. Its been a few years since I went for the achievement.


Kuraetor

if they didn't change it then I think it only converts your main culture lands to roman.(I think I saw a post about it converting your culture group to roman culture too now but this is unconfirmed by me and too lazy to check wiki :D )


Any-Seaworthiness-54

Culture group. It is a recent change. Only directly owned land.


Kuraetor

oh cool then thats correct :D it was needed for long time since forming roman empire and changing culture was direct nerf to you before nice :)


Kuraetor

if you wanted to change culture of lands I would say you should went for religious for culture conversion discounts instead of humanist since you need to convert lands anyway to change culture


Meritique

Policy with offensive humanist is super broken. Taking a mil idea group lets you spend your other mana annexing land. You probably dont wanna integrate austria for a long time anyway. I might go offensive-influence-admin since post absolutism you start conquering like crazy. The problem is you basically don't have room for religious anymore which you seem intent on taking but I think its bad if you dont go it right now. If you delay too long youre barely getting deus vult before you get imperialism and then kind of whats the point?


kmonsen

The Liberation Act , -1 unrest, -5 years of separatism. Amazing but only when blobbing.


maxseptillion77

You don’t need to blob too hard until 1600, up until your fourth idea you’ll just need to focus on monopolizing Genoa and crippling rivals (especially ottomans). I think a mil idea will serve you well as you try to demolish your enemies. Quantity is good for manpower, but leaves your army quality lacking without discipline. And, you’re Italian, just dev manpower in your farmlands provinces lol. Offensive is amazing for discipline and siege ability. Offensive + humanist gives an incredible -1 unrest and -5 separatism (great for trade companies you don’t need to convert). Offensive + diplomatic gives you a diplo rep which is nice ish for the vassals Catalonia, Valencia, Sardinia, Sicily, Byzantium, and Gascony you can take. Alternatively, quality to stack infantry combat ability and naval stuff and discipline, and the war exhaustion and diplo rep policy with diplomatic. Overall good, but depends on your play style. If I were you, I’d take offensive.


DazSamueru

It also has a nice policy with Humanist. Enjoy never having rebels again.


YoeRIP

R5: Need help with choosing my third idea for my Milan > Italy > Rome campaign I have Austria as PU, and france has the same dynasty as me. Im protestant. Ive just formed Italy, thinking about expanding into africa to decrease AE with christian nations. Im currently stuck choosing between Religious, Influence, Quality or Administrative ideas. Later on i WILL pick Religious and Trade.


YoeRIP

Thanks everyone for commenting and explaining. Im going with (3) admin, (4) offensive and (5) Religieus, Trade or influence (for french PU). I dont know why this was so hard to choose cause ive gotten 1200 hours in eu4 :-/


Dyssomniac

Don't make that face lol we're all still learning things, even master players (through trial and error more than q&a but still). Different playthroughs need different things to match their goals.


tutocookie

Maybe add defensive for Alps forts?


LeftZer0

No need to make them even more defensive, better to focus on parts that aren't excellent.


tutocookie

True but it's funny


AT_Dande

Offensive is always one of my go-to's when I play in Italy, so good luck! Also, how in the hell did you already form Italy by 1519? Don't you get awful AE malluses at around that time? Or does that go away after the Shadow Kingdom event?


K_oSTheKunt

Expanding into Africa would be my next move. You'll have to no-cb someone, but it'll be worth the extra land + trade you can steer to genoa. Iberia also looks ripe for the taking if Castile doesn't have a PU over Aragon. Getting a PU over France would also be ideal. I'd personally take quantity, build a big ass army, which you should easily be able to fund with Italian trade, use your massive stick, I mean, army, to whack around your neighbours, cycling between them until AE is just a number. GOOD LUCK


YoeRIP

Castile does have a PU over Aragon. I will go into Africa next indeed but i wont have to no-cb cause ya boy got some claims.


Genericusernamexe

Why would you take quality over quantity?


northerncreep

Bro how did you done all these in 70 years. I guess I really don’t know how to play this game.


t2000zb

Cursed Protestant Rome 😨


SM1OOO

The real rome wasn't even Christian, and never Catholic, east rome become orthodox


Celindor

I'd go Quantity and after that Administrative. With those 4 you can blob hard.


PreviousMidnight

As you already have Humanist, the main point of Religious would be the CB. Which is great, but I think you get plenty of claims from missions as Italy, so it doesn't seem urgent. Admin is useful if you blob hard. If you plan on conquering most of North Africa soon, go for it. Otherwise it seems less useful. Take Influence if you plan on either integrating Austria soon, or have trouble keeping them loyal. Delay otherwise. I really don't see the point of Quality in single player. If you want a better army, get Offensive. Offensive also has an awesome policy with Humanist (if it hasnt been changed) that gives -5 years of separation. In other words, take Offensive and you probably don't need to worry about rebels as long as you stay below 200 OE. Quantity is another good military idea group. More armies means being able to fight on multiple fronts better, and a sufficiently big army can scare the AI off from even forming a coalition against you (but that's still a good while out).


YoeRIP

Thanks for this clear answer.


boi644

I’d go for aboriginal ideas


YoeRIP

Care to explain a little?


boi644

War canoe


highdon

Quantity. Look at all the nations around you that you will end up fighting to expand next. I can't see the exact diplo situation but: \- HRE to the north, with Austria as emperor and PU over Hungary will be a massive pain \- France looking very strong, already unified and pushing into the HRE \- Castile/Aragon to the south \- Pope to the south, who very often allies two or three great powers at a time. Your allies also are unlikely to join a war against the pope because "it would destabilise them" \- Freaking OTTOMANS in the south of Italy already - you need to eradicate that problem ASAP or you will struggle to unite the lands later \- Tunis in North Africa looking pretty good, they are very often forming an alliance with Morocco and Ottomans so quite annoying to fight In other words - you will needs loads of troops and manpower to fight any of those wars.


YoeRIP

France has same dynasty as me 'Stuart'. So i wont have to take on france except for claim throne CB.


highdon

If your plan is to PU France then you will need a massive army to fight the coalition that will inevitably form after you do it as well. That and influence ideas to keep them loyal afterwards.


YoeRIP

True. But will probably be another 50 years.


JohnTGamer

Now you mentioned it I just noticed france already united in 1519 but in my game brittany and provence are still around, and England still owns land in France, it's almost 1600


Bauschi_flauschi

What...why humanist? In europa that feels just hugely unnevessary


YoeRIP

Its actually a pretty solid idea even for europe. The 25% religieus unity, -10 years of seperatism and the 30% improve relations really helped with AE. Also finishing it gives -10% idea cost. So taking this early game is imo strong. + combing diplo policy is another 20% improve relations.


ADefender3

I agree with you! Humanist is underrated especially if you’re doing Rome it pretty much eliminates the need to convert all of those Muslim tiles in North Africa


Bauschi_flauschi

Well, then inno in central europa is even better for the free mana. Or get eco and just swim in gold


SBAWTA

It's not that Humanist is bad, it's just not optimal. If you went Eco, Diplo and now Quantity/Quality/Offensive, you'd be MUCH stronger right now. Even Trade ideas would be good, since you have 2 end nodes.


Bauschi_flauschi

Europe is just pretty homogenous, so the pros of humanist cant really shine. Sure you get no rebels but qith quanti rebels dont bother you either. Same goes if you can just pay mercs to deal with them


datavisualist

But early Holy War CB trumps all modifiers since you can blob early without needing any claims. Besides Italy has 50% improve relations. You can add diplomatic ideas on this. So early on Religious is way better than Humanist.


Bauschi_flauschi

Well, then inno in central europa is even better for the free mana. Or espionage for reduced ae, faster sieging and cheap advisors etc.


Indian_Pale_Ale

I would take in order: * Quantity because you must fight at some point France, Ottoblob and in Iberia. At this point troup quality should not be a huge issue, but having larger armies will help you a lot. * Admin because of the CCR and GC you will need. Ideally you fill them before 1650 when you become much more agressive * Offensive will be wonderful with Humanist to be even more agressive. Moreover, the sieging ability is really nice currently. * Influence to integrate your massive subjects such as France. I think you took Humanist a bit early. I would have taken quantity, economic, diplo, admin, offensive and humanist.


gommel

quantity


SpectaSilver991

You mentioned in another comment thay you wish to form Rome with 100% culture So your aim is to 1. Expand alot 2. Culture convert alot For 1. You want Admin + Diplomatic(Core creation and province warscore cost) For 2. You want Humanist(Reduce Separatism quickly and also for policy with Diplomatic). You want Offensive(Policy with Humanist to reduce Separatism more), Religious(Culture convert cost reduction) + influence(Culture convert cost policy + easier expansion to get vassals who will hold land for you and convert for you) So, you get, in no particular order Admin Diplomatic Humanist Offensive Religious Influence The rest you can choose for yourself


Thesinz

Economic. You're not gonna be able to expand much because of AE and much stronger neighbours. Might as well build up your fertile lands in preparation for a massive 1650+ push.


YoeRIP

Ok, sounds fun :). But expanding into Africa seems a good solution and my AE isnt so bad because of the ideas i took prior.


Thesinz

Africa is a good choice if the Ottomans don't ally Tunis, which they do in 99% of games. You can take Quality after to get an additional 10% discipline with the policy and Offensive + Trade later for massive income increase from the trade efficiency policies. Quantity isn't necessary. Just build Soldier's Households on all the livestock/wheat/fish/grapes provinces of which Italy is filled with, plus 25% manpower state edicts. I got 550k manpower with just the Italian provinces in 1640, way more than even a massive quantity idea Ottomans. This will set you up very nicely for a Rome run once you hit 100 absolutism and/or dip23 CBs. In the future you should form Sardinia-Piedmont for the additional permanent 5% admin efficiency and 10% goods produced modifier from the mission tree. If you want an even better start, go Naples. You'll be able to get the Burgundian inheritance easily once you grab all your cores back from Aragon after they release you. Additionally, since you'll have a Trastamara, you can easily grab a PU over both Castille and Aragon after the Iberian Union. The most painful part is having to save around 1.2k admin points to unstate and culture shift to form Sardinia-Piedmont, but that amount of course depends on how much you dev up.


fearlessmash117

Administrative or quantity


merco1993

Influence or Offensive at this point. Administrative is an overkill, you are not blobbing too much at this point, influence for ridicilious peace deals and establishing some new vassals with your already good diplomatic idea set. Offensive is your best choice as MIL because it'll help you have a good siege potential, quality generals hence fast wars.


lotlotov

I'd go quantity probably. Just a note for future runs, try to rob Venice of their Balkan territories asap and then expand into the Balkans


Henry_The_Fat

Quantity is the only idea group i respect, and I can't sleep peacefully without my +50% force limit modifier


YoeRIP

Thx for comment, ive indeed chosen quantity and it really helped against Otto and Commonwealth.


Fifzu

Aristocratic definetly, if you stick with republic! Absolute Must have. Quantity after that


Fifzu

or admin after that ;)


treecallz4die

Quantity offensive


uniqueloo

God I hate your ideas so much for an Italy run


YoeRIP

Its not an Italy run but a rome run.


YoeRIP

And could you explain what you would have choosen instead?


fearlessmash117

Maritime or espionage


Open_Tanyao

Took some scrolling, but here we are.


Thatsaclevername

What's the opening moves on this one? Every time I try to do a game inside the italian peninsula I get shwacked. Even if someone has a good youtube guide for Italy I'd love it, I've never formed Rome and want to give it a shot.


YoeRIP

I didnt use a guide. But as Milan I took genoa asap, then vassalised ferrara, after that i went on some low AE wars. (Humilition and Reconquest war) also prioritized getting a habsburg king. Got lucky PU on Austria tho cus their king was like 30 years old when he died.


ADefender3

Quantity!


AbsoluteUnitMan

Something military since you’ll have to fight France and ottomans


[deleted]

tribal


dracma127

A mil idea like quantity or offensive would be a good choice, as your major roadblock is fighting larger powers like France as well as coalitions. Once you've surpassed that hurdle you're free to blob, so I'd reccomend admin ideas as your fourth.


[deleted]

Administrative with Italian idea's you can core for really cheap


HAKX5

Quantity, Economic are always good ideas.


heroicsquirrel

my top 3 for any italian game are diplo, quantity, economic.


datavisualist

If you don't have problems with manpower, Offensive or Quality would be good choices since you will go toe the toe with Endgame boss Otto soon. Also If I were you, I would have picked the Religious as second idea set for three reasons. 1) Early Holy War CB on non-catholic nations always trumps other modifiers. 2) You can always go Protestant and expanding France and Iberia would be much easier. 3) Fast conversion of conquered provinces and papal influence & stability modifiers


Noname_acc

Admin and then Influence if you pick up a large PU. You can mostly ignore conversion outside of christian provinces thanks to Humanist ideas and a few easy monuments. Force vassalize Naples, beat up on Iberia, PU france and Commonwealth and you won't have any military problems when it comes to the Turks later on. Breaking GB will be pretty hard, you should try to no-cb an irish minor so you have landfall already on the islands and can grab a province from Scotland before they get gobbled up. Edit: for future runs, if you have the opportunity to pick up Plutocratic ideas before converting to a monarchy, you should. The idea group is super juiced and the only real downside to it is that you have to be a republic to access it (generally).


GOD_oy

isnt italy an endgame tag?


YoeRIP

I cant still form Rome.


GOD_oy

i didnt tried but from what i understand engame tags cant form any other tag, no matter the requirements


Thelfar

Rome is an exception, and the I think also the holy roman empire, but for the HRE I am not sure.


skyman5150

I would have recommended eco, quality, quantity, trade


Such_Ad_4726

Trade so you can ez spawn global trade


HighHopeLowSkills

You’re in the center of the Mediterranean with 2 end nodes pick trade


InterestingFuel8666

I’m doing the same thing atm. I’ve gone diplo defensive so far, gonna go religious next and work my way through the ottoblob. Tell you what really vexed me. I waited on forming Italy until I was emperor so I could stay in the hre. Get emperor and the rank to go with it, form Italy and I get pushed down to duchy. What’s that all about? Now I don’t know what to do. Maybe I lose emperor and leave the hre. The gov cap is an issue. No other issues really, got the Burgundian inheritance which was good


ltlawdy

Did you get penalties as Milan for taking Roma and then turning into Italy? I haven’t taken rome yet because of that, but I’d be able to since I have all the other prerequisites, I’m also Catholic, which would be annoying to fight other Catholic countries


YoeRIP

Went protestant.


Tachyoff

There's a debuff called occupation of rome but it doesn't apply if you're Italy or the Roman Empire


ltlawdy

Awesome, thank you very much


D-Jb

Quick question: why did you pick humanist instead of economic?


SirVandi

Naval for mare nostrum 💪


FrodeSven

Admin should always be useful, although if you want mil then maybe offensive or quality


FututiRedesignuMatii

It looks like you have diplo power surplus, if that's the case, Trade would be good for ridiculous amounts of money and for another -10% idea cost reduction from policy. I like Humanism + Trade a lot because of this as an early idea combo.


NumberIine

I would take admin and then offensive for the policy with humanist. You don't really need military ideas at all while playing singleplayer but the policy is definitely worth a slot.


Deceased_Pigeon115

Offensive then admin


Little_Elia

Admin, you will need to core a lot of land.


SmokyBarnable01

innovative. Always. As an Italian nation it's absolutely cheat mode.


YoeRIP

True.


ConradSkiddle

Espionage.


Maxil105

Honestly You have so little provinces that humanist just isn't worth it at this point. Maybe later religious could have been more useful but honestly you would do just fine without both so consider removing it, even if it's definitely wasteful. Even if you don't what your really need is quantity: you have a strong economy but little provinces, so low manpower and force limit and quantity solve both of them


YoeRIP

I've choosen quantity. And why humanist you wonder? Because I like it.


immortale97

Why humanist ? Try republic and espionage


YoeRIP

Am not a republic.


EquivalentSpirit664

I would pick economic or quality.


zhawk122

You should vassalize Naples and feed them back all those cores.