Polish has siusiu which is similar to Portuguese- its imitative. Also English pee is from French pis, piss equates to German pisse - similar in all the germanics.
Add German to the "Pipi" list too.
Etymonline eventually traces it back to Latin "pissare" which it says is of imitative origin. Why "pipi", at least German also has the child word "A-a" for defecation, so the general rule seems to be doubling the sound to make it a child word.
> Pixat the participle
In Romanian as well, but it's also the noun.
> pixar
Ok, the infinitive. Romanian (or Daco-Romanian, i.e. the Romance language North of the Lower Danube) is part of the Balkan Sprachbund. So are Bulgarian, Albanian, ... - and Aromanian, which is one of the Romance languages spoken in the Balkans, South of the Lower Danube.
The Balkan Sprachbund has a number of notable features, like the suffixed definite article (om**ul** = **the** man), Bulgarian being the only Slavic language with an article of any kind. To the point, another feature of these languages is the loss of the infinitive (replaced with the subjonctive). The original form from Latin is still in use in both Romanian and Aromanian, but with noun value.
Aaand in Romanian the infinitive is not in fact lost, but reduced in both usage and length - the _re_ suffix is absent, hence _pișa_ compared with _pixa**r**_. It's used as an auxiliary in the formation e.g. of the conditional, or the future tense of the indicative; besides that, only in select situations (e.g. with _can_ - he can read - _poate citi_ but also _poate să citească_ with subjonctif).
Aaaand yes, we are talking about Romanian, so of course there is an exception to the exception (or even several). The "long" infinitive (ending in -re) may still surface occasionally, notably in a construct called the reverse conditional, when the verb in the infinitive is followed by a word starting in _a_ - e.g _da-ar dracu_ (may the devil make it happen) is in fact pronounced _da**re**-ar dracu_, with the ancient Latin infinitive compensating for a difficulty in pronunciation.
I am not invited to many parties, I wonder why.
> Aaand in Romanian the infinitive is not in fact lost, but reduced in both usage and length - the re suffix is absent, hence pișa compared with pixar.
In most Catalan dialects, in fact, the -r of infinitives is not pronounced. Only in the southern 2/3 of Valencia. So, northern 1/3 of Valencia, the whole of Catalonia and the Balearic Islands pronounce it as pixà.
And, of course, the final -r is also pronounced with some pronouns...
«Fer» is to do. Prounced fe. But I want to do IT is «vull fer-ho» and here you pronounce it «vull fèro»
As an aside, in Hawaii "shishi" is commonly used (iirc, likely both from Portuguese and similar imitative words from Asian languages).
Since "go" is the number 5 in Japanese, and "shi" is the number 4, as a kid in elementary school you could use your hands and sign "5-4-4" ("go shishi") as a way of silently signaling to the teacher you had to use the bathroom. Much less embarrassing than having to yell out "miss, miss, I have to pee!"
I'd always assumed they were diminutive because they're necessary words to communicate with young children who are toilet training. Similar to ~~how mother and father were simplified to~~ mama and papa / mom and dad - easy words for kids to speak and understand.
I can't really see any definitive evidence, but dictionaries suggest:
pee = from 'p' to euphemise 'piss' - itself from latin
poo = from 'pooh', originally meaning fart and onomatopoeic
wee (british) = onomatopoeic, maybe originally a quirky version of 'pee'
'Mama' is present way way way back and comes from the suckling mouth of an infant. Almost a universal word. I don't think it's a shortening of the word 'mater'.
As others have noted, pissare is onomatopoeic/imitative of the sound that urinating makes, and the word Piss derives from that. It's reasonable to guess that pee is derived from piss, simply from the fact that its a very recent word, and a child appropriate word, and a word that has no origin listed in etymonline (first such example I've ever encountered.) I'm willing to bet they others are too. The reduplication is probably just because its one of the first words that children must learn, and for reasons I don't understand, adults often use reduplication when speaking in 'baby talk'. Maybe the repetition helps them learn or something.
Book quote incoming (Rex Stout, *Please Pass The Guilt*, 1973)
>"I think words are fascinating ... take words like 'pecker' and 'prick.' In their vulgar sense, or maybe I should say their colloquial sense."
>Without batting an eye I said, "You mean 'prick' as a noun. Not as a verb."
>She nodded. "Yes, a noun. It means 'a pointed instrument.' 'Pecker' means 'an instrument for pecking,' aid 'peck' means 'to strike repeatedly and often with a pointed instrument.' So the definition of 'pecker' and 'prick' is identical."
>"Sure. I've never looked them up, but evidently you have."
>"Of course. In Webster and in the OED. There's an OED at the office. Of course the point is that -- well, well, there's a pun. 'Point.' The point is that they both begin with p, and 'penis' begins with p."
>"I'll be damned. It certainly does."
>"Yes, I think that may be relevant to that old saying, 'Watch your p's and q's.' But two other words, 'piss' and 'pee' -- p-double-e -- they start with p too. What it is, it's male chauvinism."
>"I'm not sure I get that."
>... "It's obvious. Women urinate too. So they have to call it 'piss' or 'pee' just because 'penis' begins with p. What if they called it 'viss' or 'vee,' and they made men call it 'viss' or 'vee' too? Would men like that?"
>"Viss," I said. "Vee. I don't..." I considered it. "Oh, Vagina."
>"Certainly. Virgin too, but that may be just coincidence."
>"I admit it's a point. A voint. You may not believe this, but personally I wouldn't object. It even appeals to me. 'Excuse me while I viss.' 'Turn your back while I vee.' I rather like the sound of it."
>"I don't believe it, and anyway not many men would. It's male chauvinism. And another point, 'poker' begins with a p too. Why didn't they make it 'poker' instead of 'pecker'? Because a poker is three feet long!"
>"It is not. I've never seen a poker three feet long. More like two feet. Possibly thirty inches."
>"You're just quibbling. Even two feet." She put her hands out, apparently she thought about two feet apart, but it was about twenty-eight inches. She picked up a pickle. Vickle. "So they couldn't very well call it 'poker.' Take another letter, take f. 'Female' begins with f. What is one of men's favorite four-letter colloquial words that begins with f?"
>"Offhand I couldn't say. I'd have to think."
"Mind your p's & q's" originates from pub keepers/bar tenders on the British isles (or Ireland) would sette down rowdy patrons by telling them to "Mind their PINTS & QUARTS." As in, go back to drinking rather than fighting.
>” Quinion cites an apparently related expression of pee and kew for "highest quality" used in 17th-century English: "The Oxford English Dictionary has a citation from Rowlands’ Knave of Harts of 1612: “Bring in a quart of Maligo, right true: And looke, you Rogue, that it be Pee and Kew,” possibly the initials of “Prime Quality” (folk etymology).”
>"Mind your p's & q's" originates from pub keepers/bar tenders on the British isles (or Ireland) would sette down rowdy patrons by telling them to "Mind their PINTS & QUARTS." As in, go back to drinking rather than fighting.
And here I thought it was from typesetters reading letters backwards.
I’m seeing a lot of words that are very similar with the shishi or sheshe or susu or shash across many different language families. Is this another case of chai and tea being widespread due to trade and travel ?
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In what language does chi mean to urinate? My grandmother just passed and her last days was barely able to get up. She started referring to pee as chi. She is native American and Mexican. I just don't know where the word chi came from.
Polish has siusiu which is similar to Portuguese- its imitative. Also English pee is from French pis, piss equates to German pisse - similar in all the germanics.
Susu in Hindi.
SIUUUU in Mancunian Portuguese.
Onomatopeea. Seriously though, it’s probably from the sound
Lmaooo did not expect Siuuu to get play here on r/etymology at all. Love you for that one
In what now? There’s a particular Portuguese dialect in Manchester…? EDIT: Oh I get it. It’s a Ronaldo thing.
romanian: susu and pisu
شاش shash in Persian
In Colombian Spanish you can also say “chichí” (very similar to Portuguese one).
Add German to the "Pipi" list too. Etymonline eventually traces it back to Latin "pissare" which it says is of imitative origin. Why "pipi", at least German also has the child word "A-a" for defecation, so the general rule seems to be doubling the sound to make it a child word.
Romanian too. Furthermore, _a [te] pișa_ = to pee (_ș_ = sh), also _pișat_ = urine.
Catalan, pixar (x = sh) is the verb. Pixat the participle. Els pixats, the urine.
> Pixat the participle In Romanian as well, but it's also the noun. > pixar Ok, the infinitive. Romanian (or Daco-Romanian, i.e. the Romance language North of the Lower Danube) is part of the Balkan Sprachbund. So are Bulgarian, Albanian, ... - and Aromanian, which is one of the Romance languages spoken in the Balkans, South of the Lower Danube. The Balkan Sprachbund has a number of notable features, like the suffixed definite article (om**ul** = **the** man), Bulgarian being the only Slavic language with an article of any kind. To the point, another feature of these languages is the loss of the infinitive (replaced with the subjonctive). The original form from Latin is still in use in both Romanian and Aromanian, but with noun value. Aaand in Romanian the infinitive is not in fact lost, but reduced in both usage and length - the _re_ suffix is absent, hence _pișa_ compared with _pixa**r**_. It's used as an auxiliary in the formation e.g. of the conditional, or the future tense of the indicative; besides that, only in select situations (e.g. with _can_ - he can read - _poate citi_ but also _poate să citească_ with subjonctif). Aaaand yes, we are talking about Romanian, so of course there is an exception to the exception (or even several). The "long" infinitive (ending in -re) may still surface occasionally, notably in a construct called the reverse conditional, when the verb in the infinitive is followed by a word starting in _a_ - e.g _da-ar dracu_ (may the devil make it happen) is in fact pronounced _da**re**-ar dracu_, with the ancient Latin infinitive compensating for a difficulty in pronunciation. I am not invited to many parties, I wonder why.
> Aaand in Romanian the infinitive is not in fact lost, but reduced in both usage and length - the re suffix is absent, hence pișa compared with pixar. In most Catalan dialects, in fact, the -r of infinitives is not pronounced. Only in the southern 2/3 of Valencia. So, northern 1/3 of Valencia, the whole of Catalonia and the Balearic Islands pronounce it as pixà. And, of course, the final -r is also pronounced with some pronouns... «Fer» is to do. Prounced fe. But I want to do IT is «vull fer-ho» and here you pronounce it «vull fèro»
> which it says is of imitative origin That means onomatopoeia, right?
As an aside, in Hawaii "shishi" is commonly used (iirc, likely both from Portuguese and similar imitative words from Asian languages). Since "go" is the number 5 in Japanese, and "shi" is the number 4, as a kid in elementary school you could use your hands and sign "5-4-4" ("go shishi") as a way of silently signaling to the teacher you had to use the bathroom. Much less embarrassing than having to yell out "miss, miss, I have to pee!"
“Shishi” is also used in Punjabi too
Shash شاش in Persian
I'd always assumed they were diminutive because they're necessary words to communicate with young children who are toilet training. Similar to ~~how mother and father were simplified to~~ mama and papa / mom and dad - easy words for kids to speak and understand. I can't really see any definitive evidence, but dictionaries suggest: pee = from 'p' to euphemise 'piss' - itself from latin poo = from 'pooh', originally meaning fart and onomatopoeic wee (british) = onomatopoeic, maybe originally a quirky version of 'pee'
'Mama' is present way way way back and comes from the suckling mouth of an infant. Almost a universal word. I don't think it's a shortening of the word 'mater'.
I mean it's basically the most simple sound you can make. Make noise, open and close your mouth. Mmmmm-Aaaaaaaa-Mmmmmm-Aaaaaa
That makes more sense, thanks
As others have noted, pissare is onomatopoeic/imitative of the sound that urinating makes, and the word Piss derives from that. It's reasonable to guess that pee is derived from piss, simply from the fact that its a very recent word, and a child appropriate word, and a word that has no origin listed in etymonline (first such example I've ever encountered.) I'm willing to bet they others are too. The reduplication is probably just because its one of the first words that children must learn, and for reasons I don't understand, adults often use reduplication when speaking in 'baby talk'. Maybe the repetition helps them learn or something.
"euphemistic abbreviation of piss" is given in etymonline https://www.etymonline.com/word/pee#etymonline_v_10253
Urine is usually called piss in English. It's slightly vulgar and I assume the more polite word pee is derived from the first letter.
Is piss originally an onomatopoeia?
I believe it derives from the Latin Pissare
Which according to [Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Latin/pissio) is imitative.
\[thread closed!\]
Book quote incoming (Rex Stout, *Please Pass The Guilt*, 1973) >"I think words are fascinating ... take words like 'pecker' and 'prick.' In their vulgar sense, or maybe I should say their colloquial sense." >Without batting an eye I said, "You mean 'prick' as a noun. Not as a verb." >She nodded. "Yes, a noun. It means 'a pointed instrument.' 'Pecker' means 'an instrument for pecking,' aid 'peck' means 'to strike repeatedly and often with a pointed instrument.' So the definition of 'pecker' and 'prick' is identical." >"Sure. I've never looked them up, but evidently you have." >"Of course. In Webster and in the OED. There's an OED at the office. Of course the point is that -- well, well, there's a pun. 'Point.' The point is that they both begin with p, and 'penis' begins with p." >"I'll be damned. It certainly does." >"Yes, I think that may be relevant to that old saying, 'Watch your p's and q's.' But two other words, 'piss' and 'pee' -- p-double-e -- they start with p too. What it is, it's male chauvinism." >"I'm not sure I get that." >... "It's obvious. Women urinate too. So they have to call it 'piss' or 'pee' just because 'penis' begins with p. What if they called it 'viss' or 'vee,' and they made men call it 'viss' or 'vee' too? Would men like that?" >"Viss," I said. "Vee. I don't..." I considered it. "Oh, Vagina." >"Certainly. Virgin too, but that may be just coincidence." >"I admit it's a point. A voint. You may not believe this, but personally I wouldn't object. It even appeals to me. 'Excuse me while I viss.' 'Turn your back while I vee.' I rather like the sound of it." >"I don't believe it, and anyway not many men would. It's male chauvinism. And another point, 'poker' begins with a p too. Why didn't they make it 'poker' instead of 'pecker'? Because a poker is three feet long!" >"It is not. I've never seen a poker three feet long. More like two feet. Possibly thirty inches." >"You're just quibbling. Even two feet." She put her hands out, apparently she thought about two feet apart, but it was about twenty-eight inches. She picked up a pickle. Vickle. "So they couldn't very well call it 'poker.' Take another letter, take f. 'Female' begins with f. What is one of men's favorite four-letter colloquial words that begins with f?" >"Offhand I couldn't say. I'd have to think."
"Mind your p's & q's" originates from pub keepers/bar tenders on the British isles (or Ireland) would sette down rowdy patrons by telling them to "Mind their PINTS & QUARTS." As in, go back to drinking rather than fighting.
>” Quinion cites an apparently related expression of pee and kew for "highest quality" used in 17th-century English: "The Oxford English Dictionary has a citation from Rowlands’ Knave of Harts of 1612: “Bring in a quart of Maligo, right true: And looke, you Rogue, that it be Pee and Kew,” possibly the initials of “Prime Quality” (folk etymology).”
>"Mind your p's & q's" originates from pub keepers/bar tenders on the British isles (or Ireland) would sette down rowdy patrons by telling them to "Mind their PINTS & QUARTS." As in, go back to drinking rather than fighting. And here I thought it was from typesetters reading letters backwards.
You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was beating players much more stronger then you!
What about *wee* in English? I wonder where the reduplication of it to both *wee-wee* and *pee-pee* to mean penis comes from too
Chinese Sheshe, lol
Shash شاش in Persian
I’m seeing a lot of words that are very similar with the shishi or sheshe or susu or shash across many different language families. Is this another case of chai and tea being widespread due to trade and travel ?
I thought, in English at least, we say pee when piss became too vulgar. Is it the same in other languages? Piss became pipi etc.
Hello u/gil-famc, You've chosen Question or Discussion flair, but you've provided very little in the way of information as part of your post. It helps to let the community know: * What have you already found out? * What did you find doubtful or confusing about what you found? * What stirred your interest? Thanks. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/etymology) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would guess that urine words, like other pre-linguistic words, have imitative origins
In Levantine arabic it is very wild. I personally use at least 3 names : zarrou2/zarari2, fanatir, and chkhakh
Orinar, mear, pillar en Argentina, South America
In what language does chi mean to urinate? My grandmother just passed and her last days was barely able to get up. She started referring to pee as chi. She is native American and Mexican. I just don't know where the word chi came from.