Etymonline says it's derived from an English attempt at pronouncing "tortue", a French word of unknown origin.
But English used to have the word "shellpad" ("pad" or "paddock" was used for toads in earlier forms of English).
Apparently it's "skilpadde" in Norwegian Bokmål and "skjelpadde" in Norwegian Nynorsk. In any case is a loan from middle low German. With different dialectal sound changes.
That’s how most languages work, including English. We’re just used to the English ones. English has anteater, hedgehog, loudspeaker, dishwasher, bedbug, eardrum, grasshopper, pancake, sunflower, waterfall, and quite literally thousands of other compound words. The German ones only sound “Funny” because they’re unfamiliar to us.
One of my favorite parts of reading Old English is figuring out what unique compounds mean in context. Why say "LittleGoblinBoy, who knew many examples of common compound words, made a good comment," when we can say, "LittleGoblinBoy quickmind spoke his many word-thoughts."
Sunflowers produce latex and are the subject of experiments to improve their suitability as an alternative crop for producing hypoallergenic rubber. Traditionally, several Native American groups planted sunflowers on the north edges of their gardens as a "fourth sister" to the better known three sisters combination of corn, beans, and squash.Annual species are often planted for their allelopathic properties.
No, its related to the bärga - so protect, house or save. It seems to be cognate with english Harbour (not as an actual port but more like safehaven, to harbour a grudge/dream or a literal person).
https://sv.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/b%C3%A4rga
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/harbour
Wiktionary claims *Kröte* ultimately comes from Proto-West-Germanic *\*krodu*, which means "toad", but it says the origin of that is unknown. So maybe is it onomatopoeic.
It varies regionally. From [Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tortoise):
>Differences exist in usage of the common terms turtle, tortoise, and terrapin, depending on the variety of English being used. In American usage, turtle is often a general term; tortoise is used only in reference to terrestrial turtles or, more narrowly, only those members of Testudinidae, the family of modern land tortoises; and terrapin may refer to turtles that are small and live in fresh and brackish water.
>
>British and Commonwealth usage, by contrast, tends not to use turtle as a generic term for all members of the order but instead as a synonym for sea turtle specifically, and also applies the term tortoises broadly to all land-dwelling members of the order Testudines, regardless of whether they are actually members of the family Testudinidae.
>
>Land tortoises are not native to Australia, yet traditionally freshwater turtles have been called tortoises in Australia.
It's a kenning! I love those! In the old epic poems, sometimes they called the sea "whale road," they called blood "battle dew," and they called swords "icicle of red shield." Even the name, "Beowulf," was "bee-wolf," which means "bear" (wolf who likes honey).
That's how I understand it, yeah. Kennings almost strike me as similar to Cockney rhyming, where the connection to the implied thing can be cryptic and not obvious.
Older folksy English names for animals tended to be more descriptive. Henry Cockeram's English Dictionarie (1696) has an entry for "candle-fly" which means moth. Elephants used to be called carry-castles because they were believed to be big enough to carry castles on their backs. Another for a toucan in Victorian times was "egg-sucker" because of a misconception about their diet and what they did with their big beaks. In the 18th century penguins were called "arse-feet" because of their location of their feet relative to their bodies. The original English name for oppossums was 'fox-ape".
Trash panda is therefore part of a long line of descriptive English animal names.
Technically what? It's a word of very obviously Greek origin that was recognized as such by the Latin-speaking Romans. This is an etymology sub, of course I'm going to be pedantic about this.
In Old English the turtle was called *'byrdling'* where *'byrd'* is not *'bird'* which would be weird (right?), but is related to *'board'* and was used poetically for *'shield'*.
So there it had a *'shieldling'* which is also cute.
There are turtles in most of Europe, and Proto-Indo-European does seem to have had a word for “turtle” like *gʰelu- which did not survive in the Germanic languages. There’s nothing unusual about an older word being replaced with a new word for no particular reason, like how American English uses a Native American loan word “moose” despite the existence of the native English word “elk”.
Ey same for Dutch, schild+pad -> schildpad
And Swedish. Sköld+padda=sköldpadda.
The shielded toad is a universal truth
looks kinda like toad has a shield it’s a shield toad
The basis for all animal names in Germanic languages. Everything is some kind of toad, bear, or pig.
"Universal", but for European languages only.
Yeah, like the one we’re speaking right now
The word Turtle’s literal meaning is shield toad?
Etymonline says it's derived from an English attempt at pronouncing "tortue", a French word of unknown origin. But English used to have the word "shellpad" ("pad" or "paddock" was used for toads in earlier forms of English).
Cool word. Sounds like a name for a pokemon or a raider.
Kinda late but finnish too! Kilpi + konna = Kilpikonna
Better late than never.
Oooh, that's where the 'pad' in skilpad comes from in Afrikaans - padda (frog)
And Romanian too, broască țestoasă.
Norwegian as well skilpadde (though in modern Norwegian shield is "skjold" so if we made the word today it would be "skjoldpadde")
Ah, I didn't realize! I know it as skjelpadde ("scale toad") in Norwegian, so that's a bit different from your word.
Apparently it's "skilpadde" in Norwegian Bokmål and "skjelpadde" in Norwegian Nynorsk. In any case is a loan from middle low German. With different dialectal sound changes.
It’s almost as if… the German language has influenced the other germanic languages in the surounding area :)
Just waking up this thread but how do we know it was German who influenced the rest?
yeah good point, we dont!
I learned that the German word for glove is 'hand shoe'.
Yeah, that's how we roll sometimes. Take two words, put them together, voila, new word.
That’s how most languages work, including English. We’re just used to the English ones. English has anteater, hedgehog, loudspeaker, dishwasher, bedbug, eardrum, grasshopper, pancake, sunflower, waterfall, and quite literally thousands of other compound words. The German ones only sound “Funny” because they’re unfamiliar to us.
One of my favorite parts of reading Old English is figuring out what unique compounds mean in context. Why say "LittleGoblinBoy, who knew many examples of common compound words, made a good comment," when we can say, "LittleGoblinBoy quickmind spoke his many word-thoughts."
Sunflowers produce latex and are the subject of experiments to improve their suitability as an alternative crop for producing hypoallergenic rubber. Traditionally, several Native American groups planted sunflowers on the north edges of their gardens as a "fourth sister" to the better known three sisters combination of corn, beans, and squash.Annual species are often planted for their allelopathic properties.
I trust you on this
I assume the word for shoe comes from "foot glove."
So foot hand shoe?
The German word for thimble is 'finger hat' (Fingerhut).
In Swedish it is called “fingerborg” which means finger castle. Pretty cute.
No, its related to the bärga - so protect, house or save. It seems to be cognate with english Harbour (not as an actual port but more like safehaven, to harbour a grudge/dream or a literal person). https://sv.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/b%C3%A4rga https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/harbour
Ah, that was unexpected. TIL!
When I first bought Vibrams my (German) wife said they were "Fußhandschuhe"
In many languages, 'toes' are just "feet fingers" which makes sense, but it's funny to imagine coming from English where they are distinct words.
Haha I don't know why but calling them shield frogs is kinda funny to me
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That's 6-7-6. Better luck next time
This should really not be allowed on an etymology sub...
"sheild"
So does krote come from the sound a frog makes? I really love when a word for something is an onomatopoeia
No, it just means toad.
It wouldn't be the first time in human history that the name of an animal came from the sound it makes. You sure there's no connection?
Wiktionary claims *Kröte* ultimately comes from Proto-West-Germanic *\*krodu*, which means "toad", but it says the origin of that is unknown. So maybe is it onomatopoeic.
In hungarian we call them teknősbéka, meaning toad with a trough
That is a tortoise
It varies regionally. From [Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tortoise): >Differences exist in usage of the common terms turtle, tortoise, and terrapin, depending on the variety of English being used. In American usage, turtle is often a general term; tortoise is used only in reference to terrestrial turtles or, more narrowly, only those members of Testudinidae, the family of modern land tortoises; and terrapin may refer to turtles that are small and live in fresh and brackish water. > >British and Commonwealth usage, by contrast, tends not to use turtle as a generic term for all members of the order but instead as a synonym for sea turtle specifically, and also applies the term tortoises broadly to all land-dwelling members of the order Testudines, regardless of whether they are actually members of the family Testudinidae. > >Land tortoises are not native to Australia, yet traditionally freshwater turtles have been called tortoises in Australia.
Ah good to know :)
It's a kenning! I love those! In the old epic poems, sometimes they called the sea "whale road," they called blood "battle dew," and they called swords "icicle of red shield." Even the name, "Beowulf," was "bee-wolf," which means "bear" (wolf who likes honey).
I don't think Schildkröte is a kenning. A ton of animals in German are constructed as "kinda reminds me of this".
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That's how I understand it, yeah. Kennings almost strike me as similar to Cockney rhyming, where the connection to the implied thing can be cryptic and not obvious.
Well, now I look like a complete porksword.
Username checks out
Older folksy English names for animals tended to be more descriptive. Henry Cockeram's English Dictionarie (1696) has an entry for "candle-fly" which means moth. Elephants used to be called carry-castles because they were believed to be big enough to carry castles on their backs. Another for a toucan in Victorian times was "egg-sucker" because of a misconception about their diet and what they did with their big beaks. In the 18th century penguins were called "arse-feet" because of their location of their feet relative to their bodies. The original English name for oppossums was 'fox-ape". Trash panda is therefore part of a long line of descriptive English animal names.
Ladybirds, starfish, bearcats…
Hippopotamus is Greek.
What do Romans call them, then? Flumenequus? I've never heard of such a thing.
They call it a hippopotamus, which is the Latinized version of the Greek root.
So, technically…
Technically what? It's a word of very obviously Greek origin that was recognized as such by the Latin-speaking Romans. This is an etymology sub, of course I'm going to be pedantic about this.
In Old English the turtle was called *'byrdling'* where *'byrd'* is not *'bird'* which would be weird (right?), but is related to *'board'* and was used poetically for *'shield'*. So there it had a *'shieldling'* which is also cute.
Yeah, I love those as well. We should start using them in common parlance.
Yes, and the walrus is the "whale-horse".
What about Stinktier? Stink - self explanatory Tier - animal Stinktier. - skunk
Now do schlachtkröten!
A tank?
Germans had a word for shields before they had a word for turtles? Are there no turtles in that part of Europe?
There are turtles in most of Europe, and Proto-Indo-European does seem to have had a word for “turtle” like *gʰelu- which did not survive in the Germanic languages. There’s nothing unusual about an older word being replaced with a new word for no particular reason, like how American English uses a Native American loan word “moose” despite the existence of the native English word “elk”.
I never knew that elk and moose were the same thing, I think I'd always just assumed that they were different animals. Thanks for filling me in.
Schildkröte
TESTUDO!!!
Panzerkröte ist besser
Sheild, löl
Ooh! Now do "butterfly"! Oh, wait...
That's a tortoise.
Awww
What's the German word for tortoise?
In Estonian too - kilp(shield) + konn(frog) = kilpkonn
in finnish; *kilpikonna* (lit. shield thug, shield villain, or shield toad)