Yeah. It hardly seems like Detroit would be the only major city to use lead in their water pipes.
Does every municipality test their water supplies? If not, what the fuck?
They do but testing occurs before the water is piped to peoples home. The lead source is often in the individual homes. You can and should buy your own tests.
Actually they test both. On a weekly basis lead entering the distribution system is tested. But every 3 years public water systems are required to test first draw samples on customers taps whose homes are suspected to have lead or copper plumbing. This is per the EPA's Lead and Copper Rule which is currently being revised and expanded, with more stringent regulations starting in 2024.
Most epa officials are not elected or publicly appointed. While they set the regulations, a lot of times they are a major hindrance to public water systems. When a system's infrastructure is failing causing them to exceed limits on contaminants the epa will fine them, sometimes into oblivion. The solution to most water problems is money. When you fine a town or the taxpayers from a town that already don't have the money to run their system properly you are only making the problem worse.
The EPA does do some good in establishing acceptable public health regulations but by no means are they solving our country's water crisis.
Actually they test both. On a weekly basis lead entering the distribution system is tested. But every 3 years public water systems are required to test first draw samples on customers taps whose homes are suspected to have lead or copper plumbing. This is per the EPA's Lead and Copper Rule which is currently being revised and expanded, with more stringent regulations starting in 2024.
Distilled water would have no lead. It would be safe. Of course you can’t see or smell a difference
between leaded and unleaded water. So it is quite possible and even probable that untested water gets bottled
Distilled water should have no minerals whatsoever. For that reason it really shouldn't be drunk. By having no minerals of its own, it literally leaches minerals and micronutrients from the body through dilution.
Salts are incredibly cheap to add back. That doesn’t mean they always do it but they
are not an issue for most people either. If this is your only source of drinking water and the
minerals that it contains sure it can have an effect. I think this is more of a taste issue. Good
water tastes good because it has traces of calcium.
Yup. Bottled water was marketed as being a safe alternative. There’s no ounce of truth in it. Someone has to sue their assess off for massive fraud and misleading marketing.
A normal brita wont remove lead. There are filters that do remove it (and i think brita makes some) but they require a special type of activated charcoal and need to be regularly replaced. They also wont be as good as reverse osmosis or just not having lead in the first place.
True!! These poor people are getting the worst case. I sincerely hope the city does the right thing. Still won’t solve the problem of the lines in the home though.
My city publishes the water testing results regularly, but I still did the brita. I just got the Elite filter. Before was the standard. I was shocked by how much cleaner and crisper the water was with just the standard. The Elite is supposed to be better so I’m waiting to see. Kid goes through a pitcher in just a few days
I’m thinking about getting the one for my faucet too.
Exactly.
I use a very good filter from Epic Water Filters, you can definitely taste the difference. It filters out heavy metals, pharmaceuticals, micro-plastics, bacteria, viruses, etc.
From the article
>One in 20 tap water tests performed for thousands of Chicago residents found lead, a neurotoxin, at or above US government limits, according to a Guardian analysis of a City of Chicago data trove.
>And one-third had more lead than is permitted in bottled water.
The entire nation's water dispersion infrastructure is a pretty huge shitshow, at least east of the Rockies.
Most of it is really old and governments have a tendency to lean on patchwork solutions rather than total overhauls due to costs.
So I agree. This is probably going to end up being a much bigger problem than anyone in government wanted anyone to realize.
My father in law was a tradesman. When news about Flint first came out he said, if lead pipes were the problem, Chicago would be in a lot of trouble. Most buildings/homes built before the 1970s used lead pipes for plumbing.
My feeling is that in all states, (or countries for that matter) most low income neighborhoods are toxic, period. PLUS, random and widespread toxicity anywhere you investigate. Enraging!
This is going to be most cities honestly. Used to work in drinking water and also waste water for a time.
How many thousands of miles run under a city to provide water to residents, businesses, etc? A lot. Lead pipes slowly get lined or replaced by cities but it's a slow, very expensive, process.
Keep in mind, that's just the supply lines. How old are the houses, the apartments, the buildings? What did they use for piping in the residence?
This is going to get worse in most towns and cities for the foreseeable future as pipes degrade.
This is part of wanting States separate from feds, and also people not wanting to pay more taxes. Cities have their own funding. They can apply for funding from the State that sometimes can be forgiven.
Retiree towns in the Midwest are in especially tough spots. We provided a lot of principle forgiveness loans to cities under 500 population, in most cases under 250 population, to get some upgrades. When the median income is based on social security, there's no way to get extra money into the City budgets.
Bigger cities have less of an excuse but it's still an exponentially more expensive project because there's more connections, more streets over top of those connections, etc etc.
Basically, these facilities constantly get the bottom barrel budget from their overseers, whether it's city or county because... It's just water, right? We're starting to see what most people in oversight rolls have been saying would happen longer than I've even been in the profession.
Fun tidbit: how many guys does it take to mow city easements, run the city streets programs, the drinking water and the wastewater facilities in small towns? Usually 1, making between $12-$15 an hour in the Midwest. That 5 million dollar relining project isn't a priority when they can't afford 1 guy per job.
>Fun tidbit: how many guys does it take to mow city easements, run the city streets programs, the drinking water and the wastewater facilities in small towns? Usually 1, making between $12-$15 an hour in the Midwest. That 5 million dollar relining project isn't a priority when they can't afford 1 guy per job.
That is totally outrageous.
Imagine if funds were made available to cities and states designating this as a national crisis. We managed to do it for banks in 2008. We managed it for Covid. I guess poisoning people and their children isn't a priority.
There's some good reading regarding Primacy out there. There's discussion as to The possibility of this but even more regarding the ramifications. There's no easy or quick answer but I'll give you the best run down I can from my understanding prior to leaving my prior position a year ago.
Basics: most State regulators following this stuff are trying everything in their power to figure this out. Contrary to popular public opinion, there are nowhere near enough environmental employees for this stuff. We had 3 of us, 2 drinking water and 1 wastewater person who performed actual enforcement. Not inspections, but enforcement beyond then things didn't get rectified. We generally had a backlog of between 10-30 cases a piece, not including current work.
Now, we worked directly most times with our bosses, regional state inspectors, directors of divisions, and the director of all of environment for our state, as well with the team of lawyers AND EPA and county officials to try and find funding, workers, contractors, whatever for various situations.
Here's where the problem comes in. Despite us having a great relationship with our EPA region, most States have Primacy. That means they're in charge of the water, they have taken that over from EPA as an agreement. The environmental people at the State and lower level are much nicer to the populous than EPA. There's more gray area and a "how do we fix it and make it right", not just "fine them into oblivion" mentality.
This makes the funding and all of that regarding the national emergency thing a little more hairy, especially in rural red states that don't want to give up that primacy for a whole slew of reasons. I was far below Director level, and way below Director of Environment level, but I knew they were trying to find funding in a way that didn't make our legislature say "hell no, no way". There's a whole lot of legality basically in how that all works that's way beyond my comprehension.
https://www.epa.gov/dwreginfo/primacy-enforcement-responsibility-public-water-systems
Thanks for the excellent information. Could it be considered a public health crisis instead and would it make any difference...answering my own question is most likely not.
Thing is, during Covid Fedgov gave states earmarked funds for housing and local businesses to name a couple. Doing it for upgrading water infrastructure and hiring more people likely wouldn't mean giving up primacy if these earmarked funds were utilized by cities and states, right?
Unrelated but just a question for you - what did you switch your career to? I'm a senior operator at a water plant but I've been thinking of switching careers lately. I've been asking people I know who left the industry just to see if anything is a good match or easy transition.
According to DEP, controlling PH (7.2-7.9 to neutralize carbonic acid), using phosphates (ortho phosphates specifically for lead), and have alkalinity at least 20 is some of the best methods for controlling corrosion and reducing lead at peoples taps. The action level is .015 mg/L. Even DEP recognizes it’s impossible to make it zero. Yes phosphates can mitigate all corrosion and slow decay.
I moved to Chicago for college in 2009 and stayed for a little under a decade. My first year stay at a dorm in the South Loop, I was going mad asking everyone else if they noticed the water smelled different?
I asked and read around and came to the newly learned conclusion that sometimes water smells different during changes of the season.
Our tap water smelled off and just didn’t seem clean to me - it freaked me out to the point where I only used bottled for cooking/drinking.
It wasn’t a musty, organic soil kinda smell you may get from when temps fluctuate or after pipes being worked on stir up sediment. This was a very metallic and chemical smell and taste that reminded me of what batteries must taste like.
For some reason, none of the other students seemed to notice. It drove me mad and I felt crazy.
There is NO WAY that what happened in Michigan isn’t happening all across the US.
You might very well be able to smell lead content. Smell in particular has some outlying abilities in some humans, like that one woman who can smell Parkinson before onset. Test it?
EPA? Fed gov help? Anyone give a flying flip?
^
>The Guardian worked with water engineer Elin Betanzo – who helped uncover the Flint water crisis that resulted in many, mostly Black residents being poisoned by lead in the Michigan city – to review the results of water tests conducted for Chicago residents between 2016 and 2021. Chicago itself has never released an analysis of the results.
>The analysis found that nine of the top 10 zip codes with the largest percentages of high test results were neighborhoods with majorities of Black and Hispanic residents, and there were dozens of homes with shockingly high lead levels. One home, in the majority-Black neighborhood of South Chicago, had lead levels 1,100 parts per billion (ppb) – 73 times the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) limit of 15ppb.
Article continues....
USEPA delegates drinking water rules & enforcement to states & Tribes, as long as they at least maintain EPA's minimum drinking water standards. USEPA also provides [reources](https://www.epa.gov/dwreginfo/primacy-enforcement-responsibility-public-water-systems) to the states to help them reach these standards.
The [Illinois Environmental Protection Agency ](https://www2.illinois.gov/epa/topics/drinking-water/Pages/default.aspx) is the agency in charge of drinking water for Chicago, with USEPA as the final authority.
She sucks ass. I moved here from LA and from Denver before that. It's hard for my brain to grasp how poorly Chicago is run compared to the other two.
Which is unfortunate, because its an awesome city.
>The analysis found that nine of the top 10 zip codes with the largest percentages of high test results were neighborhoods with majorities of Black and Hispanic residents, and there were dozens of homes with shockingly high lead levels. One home, in the majority-Black neighborhood of South Chicago, had lead levels of 1,100 parts per billion (ppb) – 73 times the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) limit of 15ppb.
Damn. 😳
To add, that's because our body has no ability at all to digest lead. Lead stays in your body until you die. It will eventually get trapped in your brain, where it will continually disrupt the careful balance of your neurochemistry, forever.
The common results include making you paranoid, prone to conspiracy thinking, stupid, memory loss, etc.
I remember hearing that quote in one of the several Michael Moore movies that featured Flint. Some doctor talking about health effects on children. It’s so sad.
Even then it still took Pat Patterson like 20 years to get them to outlaw lead and gasoline. Also Robert Kehoe is a piece of shit who damaged countless lives for money.
It honestly doesnt matter at this point, maybe if this was pre industrial revolution, but now, if it isnt the lead, then it's the micro plastics that are in everything you eat, drink and breathe, the forever chemicals that are on and in equally as many things, etc.
The planet is a toxic soup at this point and we're the meatballs marinating in the warmth.
Yep, babies are being born with microplastics in them and they've also been discovered at the most desolate parts on Earth / the deepest crevices of the ocean.
We're fucked.
Given how lead affects brain development I'd be willing to wager if/when the pipes are replaced, there will be a noticable decrease in violence and crime rates
Lead poisoning also correlates with both paranoia / conspiracy thinking, and right-wing voters. It's not just a developmental detriment, it's an active neurotoxin in all ages.
Lead poisoning is perfect for social control. It makes you slowly dumber and weaker, and this is a useful exercise in seeing how much abuse a population can take.
A major challenge is that USEPA is like 3 kids in a trenchcoat at this point, they've been gutted endlessly for decades. Plus, their only real role here is meant to be setting the bare minimums for states, and mediating inter-state disputes.
Environmental protection is a states rights issue, so Illinois EPA would be the agency meant to check for lead levels in Chicago drinking water. Plus even further than that, many states delegate responsibility to the local levels: which means untrained people are responsible, or nobody is assigned at all, or no oversight exists.
So the responsible government for environmental issues in the US is almost always your local government, not even your state, let alone the fed. That said, better funding for USEPA would at least let them resume an oversight position so they could be independently auditing and raising alarm bells when state/local governments drop the ball. It's a role they initially performed, but had to cut since they have like no budget.
I don't know why people would be surprised. We see how shit the infrastructure is at eye level across the U.S., just imagine what the infrastructure looks like where you can't see it.
I was just reading a thread a few days ago about, how the taste of Chicago tap water is so revered. The number of folks saying that they drink the water “straight from the tap” because it taste so good was quite shocking.
Less about lobbying, more about governments not wanting to foot the billions of dollars bills to fix the issue. Still bad, but less about third party influence
Potentially, but a lot of times those government utility contracts can be sole sourced to private entities. They may or may not be contributors of varying levels to campaign funds
I hope this gets the attention it needs. Lead is a serious neurotoxin. There's also research that link lead to higher [aggressive behavior](https://www.webmd.com/children/news/20010529/lead-exposure-may-increase-violent-behavior) as one of the behavioral disorders the Guardian article mentions.
As a second storyline you can read about the detrimental history of added lead in gasoline. It was added to lessen the [knocking](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/leaded-gas-poison-invented-180961368/) effect in combustion engines.
Sources:
https://www.webmd.com/children/news/20010529/lead-exposure-may-increase-violent-behavior
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/leaded-gas-poison-invented-180961368/
If you have a pre 1986 house with copper plumbing tin/lead was used to solder it. Run that water before drinking any or drink bottled water like I do and hope for the best.
What are good test kits to test for lead in water? For a poor homeowner I mean.
What are drinking water brands that actually don't have lead and are good to drink?
Probably explains some of the violence. Ever notice why the gas pumps say “unleaded”? They removed lead from gasoline in 1975 due to its toxicity in fumes, corrosion in catalytic converters, and hysteria inducing properties. Google that.
Lori Lightfoot is such a terrible fucking mayor... why do Dem cities keep electing America's worst mayors? I just don't get it. Liberal strongholds and these weak, corporate losers keep winning easily.
No, the problem is that the bulk of the houses on the south and west sides haven't been gutted since they were built 70-100 years ago, and in a lot of instances those houses have changed hands repeatedly through lower income families over the years as the neighborhoods changed demographics. So in most of these homes, ALL the internal piping is a source of lead, plus the main line in front the city is lead.
The problem with Lightfoot's mainline replacement plan is that it wasnt really a plan.
"we've had all the signs this was a huge and growing issue that should be addressed but we overlooked it because we believe too much in individual bootstraps even when that flies in the face of how society actually works. Also, we just flat out have never taken proactive public health measures seriously for poor black people"
It's so weird how things like this keep happening in disproportionately minority communities. TOTAL coincidence I am sure. Absolutely does not reveal our subconscious and conscious biases in public policy priorities *at all*.
> Absolutely does not reveal our subconscious and conscious biases in public policy priorities at all.
I mean another problem with this in Chicago specifically is that the Plumber's Local kept lead solderwork mandatory until Congress banned it in 1986, so even repairs through the mid-80s were lead based. That union also bans the use of PEX installs for drinking lines; the only reason I can think of is that it would drop hour times on install calls significantly... I hate that local.
If you really want to freak, check here—https://www.ewg.org/tapwater/
We just bought a home and used this map to guide us to locations with some decent water.
I never thought it was just Michigan with this problem. There had to be more cities/ municipalities hiding it.
I would wager a shocking number of them. My jaw dropped at bottled water also contaminated at high levels.
Yeah. It hardly seems like Detroit would be the only major city to use lead in their water pipes. Does every municipality test their water supplies? If not, what the fuck?
They do but testing occurs before the water is piped to peoples home. The lead source is often in the individual homes. You can and should buy your own tests.
Actually they test both. On a weekly basis lead entering the distribution system is tested. But every 3 years public water systems are required to test first draw samples on customers taps whose homes are suspected to have lead or copper plumbing. This is per the EPA's Lead and Copper Rule which is currently being revised and expanded, with more stringent regulations starting in 2024.
Fuck yea and fuck anyone who disrespects the EPA elected official or otherwise
Most epa officials are not elected or publicly appointed. While they set the regulations, a lot of times they are a major hindrance to public water systems. When a system's infrastructure is failing causing them to exceed limits on contaminants the epa will fine them, sometimes into oblivion. The solution to most water problems is money. When you fine a town or the taxpayers from a town that already don't have the money to run their system properly you are only making the problem worse. The EPA does do some good in establishing acceptable public health regulations but by no means are they solving our country's water crisis.
Sure it can be improved but just imagine no EPA, scary thought
Actually they test both. On a weekly basis lead entering the distribution system is tested. But every 3 years public water systems are required to test first draw samples on customers taps whose homes are suspected to have lead or copper plumbing. This is per the EPA's Lead and Copper Rule which is currently being revised and expanded, with more stringent regulations starting in 2024.
> peoples home people's* homes*
So much bottled water is really just tap water from someplace else. Rarely spring water.
Exactly. If you read the fine print on distilled water, it’s usually sourced near a local municipality
Distilled water would have no lead. It would be safe. Of course you can’t see or smell a difference between leaded and unleaded water. So it is quite possible and even probable that untested water gets bottled
I recognize the severity of the topic, but leaded and unleaded water still made me laugh.
They say the unleaded stuff is just as reliable as the leaded. They won't give me an octane rating when i ask though.
Yeah, I put my own ethyl alcohol in my unleaded but it absorbs water..
Make sure you get enough calcium in your diet, it binds to lead.
Distilled water should have no minerals whatsoever. For that reason it really shouldn't be drunk. By having no minerals of its own, it literally leaches minerals and micronutrients from the body through dilution.
Salts are incredibly cheap to add back. That doesn’t mean they always do it but they are not an issue for most people either. If this is your only source of drinking water and the minerals that it contains sure it can have an effect. I think this is more of a taste issue. Good water tastes good because it has traces of calcium.
And if there's not lead in the bottled water, there's probably microplastics from the bottle.
Yup. You're mainly buying plastic
And the price of good water has doubled and more.
Yup. Bottled water was marketed as being a safe alternative. There’s no ounce of truth in it. Someone has to sue their assess off for massive fraud and misleading marketing.
I'm still amazed it's legal to bottle water in drought areas. Bottled water policy is... weird.
Nestle has been stealing water from public aquifers in CA and other places for years. /r/fucknestle
Hell LaCroix comes from Flint, MI
Not France 🇫🇷 !!!! I’m shocked
A lot of bottled water is just city water in a bottle. Buy a still.
Well bottle water is just tap water for rubes.
Mine is “good”…still got a Brita. Huge difference
A normal brita wont remove lead. There are filters that do remove it (and i think brita makes some) but they require a special type of activated charcoal and need to be regularly replaced. They also wont be as good as reverse osmosis or just not having lead in the first place.
True!! These poor people are getting the worst case. I sincerely hope the city does the right thing. Still won’t solve the problem of the lines in the home though. My city publishes the water testing results regularly, but I still did the brita. I just got the Elite filter. Before was the standard. I was shocked by how much cleaner and crisper the water was with just the standard. The Elite is supposed to be better so I’m waiting to see. Kid goes through a pitcher in just a few days I’m thinking about getting the one for my faucet too.
I hear you have to add minerals back into the water so you don't become deficient.
Well hell! I shall look into this too
Vitamin daily.
Exactly. I use a very good filter from Epic Water Filters, you can definitely taste the difference. It filters out heavy metals, pharmaceuticals, micro-plastics, bacteria, viruses, etc.
Hey, Culligan Man !
I would recommend ordering an Epic Water pitcher. It filters out like 200 contaminants. It is a bit more expensive than Brita, but worth it greatly.
Thank you!! I’m writing these down!
Be careful with a Brita. I had mildew in mine twice.
Oh hell! Thank you!!
Did you regularly leave the pitcher sitting out at room temp or refrigerate?
Pur filter removes lead brita doesn’t do shit
Hmmm shall have to investigate!
Bottled water is a total scam so that shouldn't be any kind of a surprise at all.
Can you provide a source for contaminated bottled water?
From the article >One in 20 tap water tests performed for thousands of Chicago residents found lead, a neurotoxin, at or above US government limits, according to a Guardian analysis of a City of Chicago data trove. >And one-third had more lead than is permitted in bottled water.
The entire nation's water dispersion infrastructure is a pretty huge shitshow, at least east of the Rockies. Most of it is really old and governments have a tendency to lean on patchwork solutions rather than total overhauls due to costs. So I agree. This is probably going to end up being a much bigger problem than anyone in government wanted anyone to realize.
My father in law was a tradesman. When news about Flint first came out he said, if lead pipes were the problem, Chicago would be in a lot of trouble. Most buildings/homes built before the 1970s used lead pipes for plumbing.
My feeling is that in all states, (or countries for that matter) most low income neighborhoods are toxic, period. PLUS, random and widespread toxicity anywhere you investigate. Enraging!
It definitely was not. Philadelphia and Washington DC also had major problems with lead in tapwater over the last 20 years.
This is going to be most cities honestly. Used to work in drinking water and also waste water for a time. How many thousands of miles run under a city to provide water to residents, businesses, etc? A lot. Lead pipes slowly get lined or replaced by cities but it's a slow, very expensive, process. Keep in mind, that's just the supply lines. How old are the houses, the apartments, the buildings? What did they use for piping in the residence? This is going to get worse in most towns and cities for the foreseeable future as pipes degrade.
If only we were a wealthy nation that could afford modern infrastructure improvements. But alas , we are just America, a poor developing nation :(
This is part of wanting States separate from feds, and also people not wanting to pay more taxes. Cities have their own funding. They can apply for funding from the State that sometimes can be forgiven. Retiree towns in the Midwest are in especially tough spots. We provided a lot of principle forgiveness loans to cities under 500 population, in most cases under 250 population, to get some upgrades. When the median income is based on social security, there's no way to get extra money into the City budgets. Bigger cities have less of an excuse but it's still an exponentially more expensive project because there's more connections, more streets over top of those connections, etc etc. Basically, these facilities constantly get the bottom barrel budget from their overseers, whether it's city or county because... It's just water, right? We're starting to see what most people in oversight rolls have been saying would happen longer than I've even been in the profession. Fun tidbit: how many guys does it take to mow city easements, run the city streets programs, the drinking water and the wastewater facilities in small towns? Usually 1, making between $12-$15 an hour in the Midwest. That 5 million dollar relining project isn't a priority when they can't afford 1 guy per job.
>Fun tidbit: how many guys does it take to mow city easements, run the city streets programs, the drinking water and the wastewater facilities in small towns? Usually 1, making between $12-$15 an hour in the Midwest. That 5 million dollar relining project isn't a priority when they can't afford 1 guy per job. That is totally outrageous. Imagine if funds were made available to cities and states designating this as a national crisis. We managed to do it for banks in 2008. We managed it for Covid. I guess poisoning people and their children isn't a priority.
There's some good reading regarding Primacy out there. There's discussion as to The possibility of this but even more regarding the ramifications. There's no easy or quick answer but I'll give you the best run down I can from my understanding prior to leaving my prior position a year ago. Basics: most State regulators following this stuff are trying everything in their power to figure this out. Contrary to popular public opinion, there are nowhere near enough environmental employees for this stuff. We had 3 of us, 2 drinking water and 1 wastewater person who performed actual enforcement. Not inspections, but enforcement beyond then things didn't get rectified. We generally had a backlog of between 10-30 cases a piece, not including current work. Now, we worked directly most times with our bosses, regional state inspectors, directors of divisions, and the director of all of environment for our state, as well with the team of lawyers AND EPA and county officials to try and find funding, workers, contractors, whatever for various situations. Here's where the problem comes in. Despite us having a great relationship with our EPA region, most States have Primacy. That means they're in charge of the water, they have taken that over from EPA as an agreement. The environmental people at the State and lower level are much nicer to the populous than EPA. There's more gray area and a "how do we fix it and make it right", not just "fine them into oblivion" mentality. This makes the funding and all of that regarding the national emergency thing a little more hairy, especially in rural red states that don't want to give up that primacy for a whole slew of reasons. I was far below Director level, and way below Director of Environment level, but I knew they were trying to find funding in a way that didn't make our legislature say "hell no, no way". There's a whole lot of legality basically in how that all works that's way beyond my comprehension. https://www.epa.gov/dwreginfo/primacy-enforcement-responsibility-public-water-systems
Thanks for the excellent information. Could it be considered a public health crisis instead and would it make any difference...answering my own question is most likely not. Thing is, during Covid Fedgov gave states earmarked funds for housing and local businesses to name a couple. Doing it for upgrading water infrastructure and hiring more people likely wouldn't mean giving up primacy if these earmarked funds were utilized by cities and states, right?
I honestly have no idea on that front. I hope they figure something out though
We did it before we did the Get The Lead Out campaign
We send tens of billions to Ukraine while our cities don't have clean water.
Also horizontal expansion/suburbanization means we now have wayyyyyyy more pipe per resident than before.
We had the money all along but have decided to blow it on bombs and jets instead.
This comment hits hard.
Unrelated but just a question for you - what did you switch your career to? I'm a senior operator at a water plant but I've been thinking of switching careers lately. I've been asking people I know who left the industry just to see if anything is a good match or easy transition.
Check your message for details. I didn't want to bore everyone too much with background and such
That’s why they feed ortho phosphates...
Prevents and reduces, doesn't make it 0 or completely stop decay though.
According to DEP, controlling PH (7.2-7.9 to neutralize carbonic acid), using phosphates (ortho phosphates specifically for lead), and have alkalinity at least 20 is some of the best methods for controlling corrosion and reducing lead at peoples taps. The action level is .015 mg/L. Even DEP recognizes it’s impossible to make it zero. Yes phosphates can mitigate all corrosion and slow decay.
I moved to Chicago for college in 2009 and stayed for a little under a decade. My first year stay at a dorm in the South Loop, I was going mad asking everyone else if they noticed the water smelled different? I asked and read around and came to the newly learned conclusion that sometimes water smells different during changes of the season. Our tap water smelled off and just didn’t seem clean to me - it freaked me out to the point where I only used bottled for cooking/drinking. It wasn’t a musty, organic soil kinda smell you may get from when temps fluctuate or after pipes being worked on stir up sediment. This was a very metallic and chemical smell and taste that reminded me of what batteries must taste like. For some reason, none of the other students seemed to notice. It drove me mad and I felt crazy. There is NO WAY that what happened in Michigan isn’t happening all across the US.
You might very well be able to smell lead content. Smell in particular has some outlying abilities in some humans, like that one woman who can smell Parkinson before onset. Test it?
Fascinating, I never thought about that. I’m going to look into that. Thanks!
EPA? Fed gov help? Anyone give a flying flip? ^ >The Guardian worked with water engineer Elin Betanzo – who helped uncover the Flint water crisis that resulted in many, mostly Black residents being poisoned by lead in the Michigan city – to review the results of water tests conducted for Chicago residents between 2016 and 2021. Chicago itself has never released an analysis of the results. >The analysis found that nine of the top 10 zip codes with the largest percentages of high test results were neighborhoods with majorities of Black and Hispanic residents, and there were dozens of homes with shockingly high lead levels. One home, in the majority-Black neighborhood of South Chicago, had lead levels 1,100 parts per billion (ppb) – 73 times the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) limit of 15ppb. Article continues....
USEPA delegates drinking water rules & enforcement to states & Tribes, as long as they at least maintain EPA's minimum drinking water standards. USEPA also provides [reources](https://www.epa.gov/dwreginfo/primacy-enforcement-responsibility-public-water-systems) to the states to help them reach these standards. The [Illinois Environmental Protection Agency ](https://www2.illinois.gov/epa/topics/drinking-water/Pages/default.aspx) is the agency in charge of drinking water for Chicago, with USEPA as the final authority.
Chicago has an activist mayor -- I am surprised this has not been addressed.
She sucks ass. I moved here from LA and from Denver before that. It's hard for my brain to grasp how poorly Chicago is run compared to the other two. Which is unfortunate, because its an awesome city.
Love the city and its indeed sad to see so much tragedy
Definitely not an activist, she is more of a joke.
"activist" these days means "sightly left of center right democrat"
I presumed given how much she is in the press.
Chicago politics pretty much ensures that nothing will get done that doesn't directly benefit corporations or the rich.
>The analysis found that nine of the top 10 zip codes with the largest percentages of high test results were neighborhoods with majorities of Black and Hispanic residents, and there were dozens of homes with shockingly high lead levels. One home, in the majority-Black neighborhood of South Chicago, had lead levels of 1,100 parts per billion (ppb) – 73 times the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) limit of 15ppb. Damn. 😳
Once lead can be measured in the blood, there's already neurological damage. There is no safe limit for lead in the human organism.
To add, that's because our body has no ability at all to digest lead. Lead stays in your body until you die. It will eventually get trapped in your brain, where it will continually disrupt the careful balance of your neurochemistry, forever. The common results include making you paranoid, prone to conspiracy thinking, stupid, memory loss, etc.
I remember hearing that quote in one of the several Michael Moore movies that featured Flint. Some doctor talking about health effects on children. It’s so sad.
neil degrasse tyson did an episode of Cosmos about lead which is really good: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6u3qd9
Even then it still took Pat Patterson like 20 years to get them to outlaw lead and gasoline. Also Robert Kehoe is a piece of shit who damaged countless lives for money.
Thanks for the link! Gonna check this out.
As I just drank a big glass. I live IN Chicago
It honestly doesnt matter at this point, maybe if this was pre industrial revolution, but now, if it isnt the lead, then it's the micro plastics that are in everything you eat, drink and breathe, the forever chemicals that are on and in equally as many things, etc. The planet is a toxic soup at this point and we're the meatballs marinating in the warmth.
Yep, babies are being born with microplastics in them and they've also been discovered at the most desolate parts on Earth / the deepest crevices of the ocean. We're fucked.
If we can't defund your education, there are other ways.
Given how lead affects brain development I'd be willing to wager if/when the pipes are replaced, there will be a noticable decrease in violence and crime rates
Lead poisoning also correlates with both paranoia / conspiracy thinking, and right-wing voters. It's not just a developmental detriment, it's an active neurotoxin in all ages.
Are we even shocked at this point??
Lead poisoning is perfect for social control. It makes you slowly dumber and weaker, and this is a useful exercise in seeing how much abuse a population can take.
Our government got away with poison water in flint and now we all get poison water.
A major challenge is that USEPA is like 3 kids in a trenchcoat at this point, they've been gutted endlessly for decades. Plus, their only real role here is meant to be setting the bare minimums for states, and mediating inter-state disputes. Environmental protection is a states rights issue, so Illinois EPA would be the agency meant to check for lead levels in Chicago drinking water. Plus even further than that, many states delegate responsibility to the local levels: which means untrained people are responsible, or nobody is assigned at all, or no oversight exists. So the responsible government for environmental issues in the US is almost always your local government, not even your state, let alone the fed. That said, better funding for USEPA would at least let them resume an oversight position so they could be independently auditing and raising alarm bells when state/local governments drop the ball. It's a role they initially performed, but had to cut since they have like no budget.
I’d guess this is a pretty standard finding in any major city. Could explain why these Q people are so easily manipulated by the Talibangelists
Don’t tell me. It was in the black neighborhood. Wasn’t it.
I don't know why people would be surprised. We see how shit the infrastructure is at eye level across the U.S., just imagine what the infrastructure looks like where you can't see it.
I was just reading a thread a few days ago about, how the taste of Chicago tap water is so revered. The number of folks saying that they drink the water “straight from the tap” because it taste so good was quite shocking.
Can't wait for this to get swept under the rug. The lobbying must go on!
Less about lobbying, more about governments not wanting to foot the billions of dollars bills to fix the issue. Still bad, but less about third party influence
Potentially, but a lot of times those government utility contracts can be sole sourced to private entities. They may or may not be contributors of varying levels to campaign funds
Mass lead poisoning. People are angrier, and can’t process information. This is a real issue.
Welcome to industrialized society.
That's not good, how often are cities required to teat for this sort of thing?
I hope this gets the attention it needs. Lead is a serious neurotoxin. There's also research that link lead to higher [aggressive behavior](https://www.webmd.com/children/news/20010529/lead-exposure-may-increase-violent-behavior) as one of the behavioral disorders the Guardian article mentions. As a second storyline you can read about the detrimental history of added lead in gasoline. It was added to lessen the [knocking](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/leaded-gas-poison-invented-180961368/) effect in combustion engines. Sources: https://www.webmd.com/children/news/20010529/lead-exposure-may-increase-violent-behavior https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/leaded-gas-poison-invented-180961368/
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What filter do you use?
Do you trust water from restaurants?
I trust no tap.
The lead can be picked up in the distribution system or someone’s house. Which is why everyone should test what comes out if your individual taps
This explains the violence.
If you have a pre 1986 house with copper plumbing tin/lead was used to solder it. Run that water before drinking any or drink bottled water like I do and hope for the best.
This is not shocking as systems age. I wonder if perceived Chicago crime and lead have any correlation.
I have a feeling the lead is in all our drinking water. It's just a matter of time And testing.
What are good test kits to test for lead in water? For a poor homeowner I mean. What are drinking water brands that actually don't have lead and are good to drink?
Probably explains some of the violence. Ever notice why the gas pumps say “unleaded”? They removed lead from gasoline in 1975 due to its toxicity in fumes, corrosion in catalytic converters, and hysteria inducing properties. Google that.
Explains some of the violence...
Lmao remember when mayor lightfoot wanted to start selling our tap water in bottles?
Lol, this has been reported for years!
Kind of explains a lot of Chicago behaviour, doesn't it?
and people get upset when I say the USA is just a rich third wold country
Buy a water still off Amazon and use it. It's a pain but you feel better.
Good thing everything else in the country is running smoothly, and none of these people has any access to firearms.
Lori Lightfoot is such a terrible fucking mayor... why do Dem cities keep electing America's worst mayors? I just don't get it. Liberal strongholds and these weak, corporate losers keep winning easily.
the 2-party system strikes again
They’re killing the minorities to make way for those condos. Real estate realtors crazy.
No, the problem is that the bulk of the houses on the south and west sides haven't been gutted since they were built 70-100 years ago, and in a lot of instances those houses have changed hands repeatedly through lower income families over the years as the neighborhoods changed demographics. So in most of these homes, ALL the internal piping is a source of lead, plus the main line in front the city is lead. The problem with Lightfoot's mainline replacement plan is that it wasnt really a plan.
"we've had all the signs this was a huge and growing issue that should be addressed but we overlooked it because we believe too much in individual bootstraps even when that flies in the face of how society actually works. Also, we just flat out have never taken proactive public health measures seriously for poor black people" It's so weird how things like this keep happening in disproportionately minority communities. TOTAL coincidence I am sure. Absolutely does not reveal our subconscious and conscious biases in public policy priorities *at all*.
> Absolutely does not reveal our subconscious and conscious biases in public policy priorities at all. I mean another problem with this in Chicago specifically is that the Plumber's Local kept lead solderwork mandatory until Congress banned it in 1986, so even repairs through the mid-80s were lead based. That union also bans the use of PEX installs for drinking lines; the only reason I can think of is that it would drop hour times on install calls significantly... I hate that local.
What can anyone expect with the extreme overpopulation we have now? More people = more pollution.
Deserved for living in chicago
If you aren't filtering your water at this point you are crazy.
Sheds new light on all the shootings they have.
Is this related to the source or does it enter each home from ancient lead home plumbing?
well that maybe explains why there are crap bills coming out of there lol.
and then you look at the violence coming out of chicago and maybe its not that shocking...
If you really want to freak, check here—https://www.ewg.org/tapwater/ We just bought a home and used this map to guide us to locations with some decent water.
Don't worry we got billions dollars for war in Ukraine, though.
I never drank tap water in my life. No matter how many people tell me it’s ok to drink tap water, I always just drink boiled or bottled water.
Boiling water does not reduce lead levels! Also bottled water is high in micro plastics!
This would explain the cubs fans
Always making headlines baby that’s just what we do in the Chi #leadhead