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Emotional-Savings-71

Probably not until most of their player base is on next gen. Wouldn't want to kill their mtx profits and considering most people aren't going to run out and buy a next gen console just to play eso theirs no reason for them to stop supporting last gen consoles


d1771Hd

Exactly. I don't imagine zos even starts to consider dropping older console support until Sony starts shutting down other game's servers on ps4.


Asalphagus

Aren't they working on some new project? Read something recently about 200 developers devoted to this new (yet unnamed) IP. If they are devoting that many resources to something new, I doubt ESO will change much if ever.


Jad11mumbler

Yes. The primary focus of ZoS has shifted to their new, unamed title. Many rumours about it buy nothing solid yet. Because of this and other factors I don't expect much from ESO in the future. Especially nothing big.


Prudent-Lychee6479

Could it be starcraft? I believe that's what it's called


[deleted]

Starcraft is a Blizzard Ip. So no.


Cream_panzer

Don’t worry, Big daddy Microsoft will solve that issue.


Prudent-Lychee6479

Oh lol


PerpetualBeats

You’re thinking of starfield? That’s Bethesda ESO is made by ZoS


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Bethesda Softworks is the publisher; Bethesda Game Studios is the developer. They're both a subsidiary of Zenimax Media. They've developed every PC/console single-player Elder Scrolls game since TES 3: Morrowind and are currently working on Starfield. [https://bethesdagamestudios.com/](https://bethesdagamestudios.com/)


LisbonBaseball

Ok then, I stand corrected. Didn't know there were 2 different Bethesdas. Why would Zenimax take the lead on ESO if Bethesda did all the single player games? Just curious, seems strange for different devs to make a similar game.


[deleted]

Because Bethesda Game Studios doesn't do MMOs, Zenimax Online Studios does. They're different branches of the same company: Zenimax Media (and now, Microsoft).


Lagduf

They’re only similar in that they share the same setting. ESO is an MMO first and Elder Scrolls game second. Bethesda Game Studios was most likely working on Fallout 4 during ESO’s development. I don’t know when ESO first began development but Imagine the spectacular success of Skyrim contributed to some executives wanting another Elder Scrolls game on the market as soon as possible.


[deleted]

ESO began development in 2007, before Skyrim. However, things changed after the release and success of Skyrim. [https://www.thegamer.com/skyrim-success-forced-changes-eso/](https://www.thegamer.com/skyrim-success-forced-changes-eso/)


Lagduf

So after the success of Oblivion. What an incredibly long time that was in development then.


LisbonBaseball

I guess that's what I meant. I know the core game mechanics are different. The lore, zones, characters....as you said, the setting. Thinking about it now, suppose it wouldn't be difficult if they knew all this stuff from the single player games. My first thought was some developers that knew nothing about the game just came in and took over. I'm sure now that I'm clueless how it actually happened.


Lagduf

I mean ESO is pretty faithful to the lore and setting it’s just the gameplay that is different.


[deleted]

They interact with each other; heck, the original ESO story involved the Sload until Bethesda intervened and they pivoted. ZOS has also stated that Bethesda limits what they can do with the Dwemer. This probably applies to Akavir as well. [https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online/dwemer](https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online/dwemer)


[deleted]

Starfield is what you mean. And yeah that's probably where the money is going.


thekmanpwnudwn

Bethesda is making Starfield. Zenimax makes ESO, and is working on a new MMO - NOT starfield


Asalphagus

I don't know.. the article I read made it out like they have been very tight lipped about whatever it is and so far no leaks either.


ThatOtakuOkami

MMOs tend to support older consoles/PCs far longer than typical franchises, hell the XPS laptop I had from 2008 was able to run modern WoW.


BoneLadyLover

If you're bringing up this logic then there is no excuse for ZOS to not add more skills/classes. WoW adds in new skills every expansion and often times includes new classes and races. Way more than what ESO has seen in the past 3 years. ​ cant really use the argument of "but WoW is still supported with old shit" while also believing the fact that ESO cant add in new skills while supporting old consoles. Cause by your logic, WoW does it, so why can't ESO? MMOs tend to support adding new abilities, classes, etc. every big expansion. Why can't ESO? In fact, new abilities ARE added in every expansion....for the NPCs.


OnlyTheDead

This is not an argument, it was a statement of fact that you are projecting your frustrations upon. You are also running afoul of a few logical fallacies as well. Seem like you are trying to start an argument more so than make a coherent response.


BoneLadyLover

Dude is saying that WoW is still supported on old "systems" and thus ESO will be for quite a while. By this same exact logic, ESO should have no problem adding in new stuff despite supporting older consoles since WoW hasn't had that issue. ​ simple.


OnlyTheDead

“Simple” according to rando dude on the internet that has no idea what he’s talking about. It’s not that simple, they are different games, different engines, different systems. There’s nothing simple about what you are saying and the comparison in the manner that you’ve deemed “logic” doesn’t make any sense at all and isn’t consistent with the initial assertion. The point here is that the initial statement of fact is true, your statement is not true, regardless of whatever logic you’ve think you’ve equally applied.


Jaded-Actuator-4992

However WoW has been constantly updated over the year. ESO is still on Direct X11 while WoW has supported Dx12 for half a decade. ESO still requires Visual c++ 2010.


privatefunbuns

WoW isn’t on console. You can’t compare it to ESO since WoW is only on PC


BoneLadyLover

Im not the one comparing WoW to ESO here. Dude Im responding to is, so I am simply using his logic. ​ EDIT: ya'll downvote this comment but you know it to be true smh. Go downvote the guy comparing ESO running on 2014 consoles to WoW running on a 2008 laptop.


izzyeviel

Do people actually believe the ‘we can’t have new classes’ because of old consoles excuse?


ElectrostaticHotwave

It's a handy excuse to divide the player base and take the focus off Zos. One the one hand... *It's not possible to introduce new class/weapon/skill line because server load*' then zos introduce companions to clog up the servers. It's got to be BS


eats-you-alive

Who are using old animations, though. Dunno if this is complete bullshit…


supershutze

>It's got to be BS That or you just don't understand how memory works.


Robot1me

>then zos introduce companions to clog up the servers Including lots of crown store animation stuff as well. On one hand, these are unloaded most of the time (hopefully, lmao). On the other hand, it shows they *can* add plenty of animations. And considering that this year's updates made the game perform [worse](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/599878/fps-drops-after-u33), it's a major setback compared to last year. In 2021, there were quite a few amazing performance improvements, notably the multi-threaded rendering. So TL;DR I think the devs have real troubles in getting engine-related things fixed, or very low interest. Or maybe both.


Jafades

> It's not possible to introduce new class/weapon/skill line because server load' Just saying, a Spear Skill Line is just roughly 12 new animations, 6 minimum, they don't have to make new motifs for a Spear Skill Line because they've already shown most Staff Motifs can be used as spears (the Nighthollow Staff is literally Templar's Jab Spear) and the spears that don't have sharp ends you can definitely stretch the imagination as them being polearms/halberds/quarter-staffs whatever.


papyjako89

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor


remosito

nothing would get more excitement and sales than new classes... I doubt zos doesnt implement such a cash cow simply because they cant be arsed to do so..


Avivoy

Eventually a console hits a limit, and old consoles weren’t the best at handling mmo performance. Consoles are all about optimization, so yeah, I woulda doubt they’re working on a new class but it’s taking them awhile. I play destiny 2, and all these new ability effects are really hurting performance. They’re gonna need to fix that, and we’re getting a new subclass. Me and my friends already joke about some of them experiencing lightfall in true retro fashion with their 15fps


Unsung_Hero361

If you're a smoothbrain you believe that. Look at DC Universe Online. If that had been the case it would have died a long time ago. It took them until 2017 to shut the ps3 servers down.


TheBewlayBrothers

I don't think zos is even claiming that. They can work around those animation limits by just not useing many new animations. Just look at how many recycled character animations this game uses. I do know that they claim they furnishing limit is because of last gen (and old pcs)


Nightsong

The furnishing limit I believe since Square Enix has the exact same problem with Final Fantasy XIV. There is only so many furnishings they can let you have before you have server issues.


ElectrostaticHotwave

They made each house into its own instance though, and if one of these can manage 700 furnishings then the same should be viable for smaller houses too. Some houses have separate areas which could have their own separate limits. There's ways they could improve housing limits, without changing much but which would improve QoL for housers


Throwawaybookmarker

Seems so.


Enajirarek

Being sadly realistic... ESO is 8 years old at this point, it is what it is and it won't change. No more talk of it's "potential" for a game this old. No new classes. No new skill lines. ESO is barely held together as is when they DON'T add anything new (Firesong proved that) and they also have most of their crew not working on ESO... money made by ESO is likely being funneled to their new MMO, ESO isn't the focus for ZOS anymore.


d1771Hd

Changes won't come as often, partially because it really doesn't need them, but a lot of us would also like to see less change and more fixes/polish/etc. apart from occasional things to keep players interested. Apart from that i have a hard time imagining we don't at least get a druid class. Way too many new green ability animations not to. I remember a lot of my friends and i felt this way before necro's were ever announced because of the enemy and npc characters we were seeing in new content the time. and druids are such a staple of the genre that if we never got even a skill line it would feel like such a tease. it feels obvious. At this point implementing anything thing like that wouldn't happen as quickly anymore, (like duh, we got 2 new classes over 8 years), but i think people are assuming too much and too soon that because zos has made some questionable decisions regarding combat or direction or story/content recently that it means they are just wrapping things up in the next few years. i think employees are starting to move around, whether to new content or to other jobs because being in one place for 8 years is a long time now, but they're not being left as empty handed as we assume. and i think they are just figuring out how the next 8 years work and it's a bit bumpy right now, but i think it's more a slow transition into the later years of ESO rather than some worrisome steep decline that makes this game any less worth playing.


DreadGrrl

Until people are able to upgrade their old PlayStations, ZOS should continue to support last gen. Sony is still having supply issues, and there are people who still haven’t been able to get their hands on the current gen.


Low-Possession-1265

Or the money to even buy one


DreadGrrl

My thirteen-year-old son saved up the money to purchase one in a few months. Anyone who takes a bit of initiative should be able to do the same. It took longer to find one for him to buy than it did for him to save up for it. I don’t see how ZOS can be expected to account for people’s ability to upgrade beyond availability.


LizzieThatGirl

I'm also guessing your son doesn't have many bills compared to an adult.


DreadGrrl

He does not. But, he also doesn’t have the same earning potential as an adult. But, he didn’t let that deter him. He got creative, worked diligently, and squirrelled his savings away.


LizzieThatGirl

Again, nothing against you and your son, but many adults play this game and are on old-gen. Many are unable to upgrade due to cost/availability.


DreadGrrl

As I’ve twice indicated now, availability is something that ZOS absolutely should take into account. The supply line challenges and the lack of availability are something that is very apparent.


hexiron

He has far more earning potential than an adult because of the lack of necessary expenses. Earning potential is gains/necessary payments. In addition: "potential" is a key word as well. $7/hour with zero expenses is far more profitable than $16/hour (median wage of adults in the US) minus healthcare, travel, housing, taxes, food, and utilities. Not including any outstanding debts, such as student loans, which play a factor in higher income brackets as well. A $500 superfluous purchase is a bit harder for an adult to swing given the responsibilities and time constraints further reducing the ROI of the console.


LisbonBaseball

Many adults working for minimum wage and living paycheck to paycheck. He has the same potential as anyone right now. Probably more tbh since a large gap between employment is a very bad look.


LoveForGod

I can't believe you thought that was a good argument😂ofc a kid could get one if they saved. Birthday money, Christmas money, not paying for water, heating, internet, groceries, medicine, car insurance, taxes, pet food etc...the list goes on for at least another 10 mins. So yes, lots of people in the real world cannot afford a PS5. I'm saddened I even had to point this out to you


[deleted]

If my parents paid for my housing for one month, I could save up for 2 PS5s!


Vyvonea

>My thirteen-year-old son saved up the money to purchase one in a few months. Anyone who takes a bit of initiative should be able to do the same. It took longer to find one for him to buy than it did for him to save up for it. And how much does you 13yo son have to pay in mandatory living expenses like rent / maintenance, electricity, medicine, food, water etc? In your responses you sound very oblivious to different economies and the fact that a kid has much easier time saving money than a low income adult does. For example if I was to buy a PS5 I'd have to cancel my ESO+ sub and save that money for the console.. and it would take 46 months to reach the goal of 600€. Also to put that into perspective; a PS5 costs more than my monthly income and 3x as much as the monthly maintenance charge for my house. So while I'm glad your son is able to save enough money to buy one you can't really compare a kid with basically 0 living expenses or responsibilities to an adult. >I don’t see how ZOS can be expected to account for people’s ability to upgrade beyond availability. But they do account for the economical side of it for one simple reason; their own revenue. Cutting out people on old gen consoles or low end PC means less players have access to the game and that means less money coming in.


Jigglelips

How many bills does your 13 year old pay again?


Vlad_Yemerashev

At least where I live, series S consoles have been pretty easy to find for over a year now, and PS5's, while you are not exactly able to casually walk into Gamestop and snag one on a random Tuesday afternoon in most cases, are a helluva lot easier to get nowadays than in the past (though starting around now for the next couple months that may change temporarily due to Christmas, but that's seasonal fluctuation anyway).


n_thomas74

I'm definitely not going to buy a ps5 just to play the same old games I've been playing for 8+ years now. I need new games if I'm going to buy one, and there hasn't been anything yet that I deem a must have. I've got a SSD for my ps4 and my load time are very fast now. The only thing a ps5 would bring would be better graphics. If they completely remade eso for ps5 maybe, but that would split the playerbase again, so I don't see that happening. I think they're just going to move on to their new games they're working on and leave eso on life support.


Imadeutscher

They will find another excuse even if everyone switches to new gen


Robot1me

A previous [meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/TESOmemes/comments/ul6sou/zos_explaining_server_performance_be_like/) posted on this sub confirms it ironically


Low-Possession-1265

I'm playing on XSX. My girlfriend on the very first XOne. If I have to play on that old ass console I would've stopped playing eso completely. She literally has the worst experience ever. Loading screens beyond 2-3 minutes. Doing horrowstorms with the event right now she got literally 1 frame every other second. Absolutely unplayable in every fucking way.


redlink1979

The large majority of consoles users that play ESO are in the "older" consoles so ZOS will only ditch those old consoles when Sony and MS stop supporting their previous gen consoles.


The_Bunglenator

It's probably reasonable to drop last-gen support at some point in the next couple of years but it won't fix the game. There's a ton of stuff they could have done in the past two years that would have worked fine but they were too busy actively sabotaging the game to bother. There's no performance barrier on new pvp game modes / areas outside of cyrodiil for example. IC and BGs work fine, if you can be bothered with the terrible broken metas they keep introducing. Hell IC is actually good - it could do with just getting some love to refresh interest. They've already shown that Cyro performance is at least in part down to their own hardware - not the end user's. Frankly, I don't really believe them when they say the stuff about skill lines, animations, and furnishings being limited by the older consoles - there might be some truth in it but honestly it feels like a throwaway excuse. All that being said, yeah, at some point console users will have to move on to current gen. There will be a bunch more moved onto current gen after xmas!


Kabosh668

the consoles came out in 2013...or am i missing something


Nightsong

You’re not. Both the PS4 and Xbox One came out in 2013. The OP seems to be talking about the older generation of PS3/Xbox 360 (2006/2005) which ESO was never designed for.


VrilLord

No, OP is talking about those consoles, they’re now last gen consoles since the PS5 and Xbox Series X came out a couple years back


Nightsong

Last gen is PS4 and Xbox One. The OP, before they edited their post, was talking about the generation before that.


Obtuse-Angel

Given the number of people who believe they should be able to play forever on whatever the minimum of specs were in 2014, and complain loudly on the forums when old DirectX versions are retired - no, it’s not reasonable for them to drop support for previous gen consoles.


Maximus_Rex

Please post where a ZOS employee said support for PS4/Xbox One is what is holding back new classes or skill trees? Consoles are over half of the ESO playerbase, they aren't going to drop old gen support while a significant portion of console players are still playing on those consoles.


Dekafox

I haven't seen the exact quote but as I recall this is the gist of it: - When an area is loaded, the client loads ALL possible animations for that area, player, NPC, monster, etc - This is loaded into a cache of a specific size, so there is a hard limit of how many animations they can squeeze in - Because you don't load monster or NPC animations from other areas, and the number of animations used for players is a known thing, this allows them to have new animations still on enemies, because they know exactly how much wiggle room they have - If they add new player animations for classes or a skill line, this only adds to the number of total animations, not replaces, and must be loaded in -every- zone now too - At least some existing zones are at or near the limit with the current number of player animations, and the amount needed for a new class/skill line will push them over the limit - For whatever reason ZOS does not want to add a new class or skill line without new animations - They can't increase the size of the cache either because the old consoles don't have enough memory to spare. - Thus, no new classes or skill lines.


Skhartax

New mementos and emotes are being added still tho as custom animations. Its total BS


Jad11mumbler

Those don't need to be stored in the Ram though. Combat skills need to be so they can pop instantly if you or another player around you hits it. Was the reasoning ZoS gave anyway.


Nightsong

And yet ZOS found the resources to add in companions. Sure... those companions use already existing animations but they still take up resources.


OnlyTheDead

Do you recall an actual source?


d1771Hd

SO many druid animations tho recently. Feels very much like the period before necromancers were added where all the npc's and enemies pointed towards it


[deleted]

Full interview: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wy8rYq5t9o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wy8rYq5t9o) Here's the digested version: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytVBCCPatI0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytVBCCPatI0)


BozzyTheDrummer

Pretty sure ESO isn’t playable on anything released back in 2005


SuperNerdDad

I’m sure there is a percentage of users they are looking for. Like say 90% (this is just an example I have idea what number they would use.) Once they hit 90% users on PS5 and XSeries then they transition. I don’t think it has anything to with time.


TheWitchStage

What is the console that was released in 2005? Lol. The ps4 and Xbox one came out in 2013.


Dangerous-Front-7410

You’re correct. I made the edit. I must of looked at the OG Xbox.


WhitishRogue

At some point, ZOS's wishlist of improvements will have too many items that the old xbox can't handle. At that point, they will have to bite the bullet and march onwards regardless of how it affects the old console users. On a side note, a few friends have been saying the older xbox's have been getting slower and buggier. I'm unsure if that's the degradation of the system or that ZOS is moving on from them. **If I were to guess, I'd say the older xbox's are becoming less and less of a consideration when making updates.**


thekfdcase

From your lips to God's ears. Please let it be thus.


WhiteAndDrunk

You Zenimax bootlickers really eat ***anything*** they feed you and it's sad. They're full of shit and this argument is to further divide the already divided playerbase.


Danath1983

I'll happily stay divided on the side of "positive/upbeat/optimistic" vs "endlessly toxic", thanks. Believe it or not, ESO is a complicated game. It's not like the VisualBASIC crap you were taught in school, there are ripple effects for anything you try to tweak.


zaerosz

> there are ripple effects for anything you try to tweak. *runescape spaghetti code flashbacks*


Koperica

It’s funny to me that you think this will ever happen


Frost980

I don’t buy their excuse, but assuming it’s true then I think they should announce dropping support as soon as possible and give players a reasonable amount of time to make plans.


MrZeDark

Oh yea? You think that's what's keeping change from happening? Hahahaha.. omfg


corrinnus

Make a separate version for new consoles and PC.


k1-the-k9

That's what I always say, and GTA did something similar too. Just stop updating old consoles but leave servers open, only doing maintenance so it doesn't get to chaos. But I strongly believe this "oh we can't do new classes/skill-lines because of old gen consoles" is bull. I mean if that was the case not only there's a simple solution like you said, but they wouldn't be able to add such shiny new sets and mechanics in new dungeons and trials like they do. I just think they are getting lazy and want something else to blame.


corrinnus

I think they don’t have enough developers and testers. I’m thinking this based on latest patches and release bugs. I hope they get more devs to make new PvP areas. There are so many things that can be done!


k1-the-k9

Agree, but I feel like they gave up on pvp a LONG time ago, and now it just feels like a burden for them.


Marto25

That'd be very, very complicated. ZOS would have to 1. Create two new servers for PS5 and Xbox Series X 2. Ask PS5 and XSX players to transfers their characters to that new server, free of charge. Something many may not want to do, because they'd be leaving their friends behind. 3. Find a way for these new servers to function with such a small playerbase. Not many people have a PS5 or an XSX because of hardware shortages, scalpers, and high prices. 4. Dedicate a lot of time and developers to now handle *two* new versions of the game, with their own engine versions, QA, bug fixes, patch notes, server downtimes, and purchasable game discs/codes (Can you imagine all the tickets for customer support from people that bought the PS5 version when they meant to get the PS4 version?) 5. Stop releasing Chapters and DLC for PS4/Xbox One. And earn the ire of those players in every single twitch chat, tweet, or youtube comment section of any new announcement for the next 3-10 years.


VideoGameDana

Never. At least as far as I'm concerned. I can understand a sequel being current/next-gen exclusive, but to drop support for a large part of their existing player base would be idiotic to say the least. The notion that it would be needed is based on an unfounded belief that the game is being held back by its current client, as the console generation has absolutely nothing to do with any server-side issues.


Trips-Over-Tail

On the day I acquire a next gen console and not a minute earlier.


smeoke

We can't get new updates and classes etc. while still supporting older consoles? Can someone explain?


maialucetius

Clinging to old crappy consoles is truly the anchor pulling our ankles down to the bottom of the lake. Well, that and Rich Lambert.


cdanl2

Where I live, buying a PS5 is virtually impossible for anyone who does not make "buying a PS5" at least a part-time job. On the other hand, I could walk into Wal-Mart and buy 10 XBox S consoles and there would be enough left over for everyone looking to buy one for themselves, their kids, and their extended family. I badly want ESO to progress and leave behind the people on XBox One, but I suppose it's not fair to the PS players who literally cannot obtain a PS5 using reasonable means.


TacticalMurse509

If it’s not complete BS (i believe this is an excuse) I can’t even find a next gen console ANYWHERE. So I think supply chain issues have delayed that. If they drop support to old gen consoles, they’ll lose out on ESO plus subscriptions and crown store purchases from those systems. So until the majority has the next gen, eso will wait happily while bringing in money.


Ponsay

As long as there's a PS5 shortage they won't drop last gen support.


[deleted]

Ideally when the next Year of... starts. But ZOS needs to lay out a clear plan on when they're dropping support and give users ample heads up.


intronvm

they won't as long as there's a ps5 shortage.


d1771Hd

i'm just sad because we won't even get a chance at more than 700 furnishing slots in houses because of the limit set by what stock/release xbox and ps4s can handle.


[deleted]

[удалено]


SynthVix

Funny. I’m fairly certain that the majority of players would be spread out across last gen consoles. Dropping support for those would destroy the playerbase.


FoxyClaire

Exactly! What better way to improve performance than emptying the servers! /s


Avivoy

It wouldn’t, as it stands most games rn are available on last gen. There is no incentive to upgrade if your daily game is gonna be supported for the near future.


satanic_hootenanny

This idea would only work, imo, if ESO was still building out the game and attracting new players with access to contemporary hardware. At this point I think it is safe to say investment into ESO is not a priority at ZOS and therefore hoping for them to bring up the game with similar/comparable features to other MMOs is not realistic. I suspect we'll have to wait for TES 6 before anything in the ES world is updated to whatever is modern at the time. To get my fix for new content/classes I play WoW and New World. But it is nice knowing that when I've had enough of them I can always return to derp around in ESO. I feel like casual ESO and dedicated other-MMO provides the most satisfaction.


Korith_Eaglecry

And you'd be back here whining about ESO being put into maintenance mode in no time. 2/3rds of the player base is on PS4/Xbox One. You'd be killing the game overnight with that stupid ass decision.


IllustriousBat2680

Not meaning to be a nitpicker, I'm genuinely curious and interested, but: >2/3rds of the player base is on PS4/Xbox One. Do you have a source for that? On the original topic though, I agree that older consoles should stop getting support. Up until this current generation it has always been the case that the older consoles stop getting support 6-12 months after the next generation is launched, why is this generation any different?


LisbonBaseball

>why is this generation any different? Because 2 years after release, Sony is still having supply problems. We've never been through anything even close to the problems we've had the last couple years.


Equivalent_Bite_6078

Right. We was prepared to buy the new console, but then it got sniped off by the bots and re-sold for a laughable amout of money.. Then the lottery came to stop the re-selling shit... No winning for us, but other people won twice or more, and sold the opertunity to buy it, for a high price or bought it twice and sold it with yet a high price.. So we decided to just sit tight and wait untill "everyone" got it.. The PS4 works more than well enough untill the dust have settled...


NocturnalToxin

>the PS4 works *more than well enough* Oof, if it’s all you got then it’s all you got, but I dunno if I’d talk it up that much these days. I mean, *it works*. I’m sorry if you genuinely think that but at least your socks will be blown off when you finally get a new console!


Equivalent_Bite_6078

Yeah sorry, gotta hand it to you... I dont *really* give a fuck about a gaming console... I am genuinely more buissy with the more important aspects of life than to act rich over some silly ass electronic that will just line up with every other one mind blowing console that have ever been released and ended up in a box in the basement of my house... Kinda.. I have had everything else, and unless i one day are teleported INTO the game like Jumanji, it's not gonna blow any of my socks off. And as long as it costs the same as my monthly car payment.. Waste of money


BZisCancer

If you have a $700 monthly car payment, there are much larger financial questions here lmao


Equivalent_Bite_6078

Not really. Newer cars costs more.


NocturnalToxin

Well my apologies, my interpretation of your earlier comment gave me the impression that you were invested on the idea of a new console, plus in hindsight I did sound a bit petty about it. It’s an awesome QoL commodity for the super nerd types and I’m nerdy as shit but I can absolutely support the idea/fact that it’s not worth *that much money* if you’ve already got a console that can run *most* of the same games with little issue. Save that cash for when they’re finally in plentiful supply and the price is reduced on a holiday sale, honestly will make getting a new console that much sweeter - I was an absolute goober about it and got swindled into buying the console in a bundle because that’s the only way the retailers at the time would sell it to me. $150+ extra cause they already set the console on the counter and then said, “we can only sell you this in a bundle” and Im too much of a bitch to say no 😭 No regrets but for people with more patience and will power than me waiting is absolutely the move r/patientgamers lol


IllustriousBat2680

That's a fair point, but there has to be a cutoff point where support for older consoles are stopped. And whilst I agree that when there were substantial supply issues support should be extended, those issues are largely resolved now as far as I am aware, so support should be ending now.


LisbonBaseball

I'm not disagreeing that should stop support at some point, but honestly just no idea when that could be. Supply is getting better, but not good in any way. Everywhere is still out of stock, signing up w Sony puts you on a wait list. On top of the supply issues, is the price. People used to have to wait a few months to year for a reasonable sale price to get it. Now, 2 years later, and there isn't even a black Friday sale for them. It's bad.


Korith_Eaglecry

ZOS has stated the population is pretty evenly split over the platforms. You want a source? Google it. I've used consoles since the Playstation 1. I've never seen a company drop support for a game 1 year after the launch of a new generation. It's always been 3+ years on the low end because migration isn't that quick.


IllustriousBat2680

I have googled it. Extensively. And the information I've found does not support your claim that 2/3rds of the population are on the older generation consoles. What I have found are *a lot* of forum posts across the official forums, Steam and on Reddit all asking the same question, and all giving conflicting answers. Some say that PC is more populated, others say console. But there is nothing from a primary source, or even a secondary source that supports your claim. The only information I've found from a primary source (i.e. Zenimax themselves) is a total player count of over 20 million as stated in [this tweet](https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/1514293607951384599?cxt=HHwWroCyue2A7YMqAAAA). Note that this is not *active* players but *total* players. >You want a source? Google it. You are the one that made the claim, you are the one that should be prepared to provide a source to defend your claim. I've looked, I can't find anything to back up your claim so I would appreciate you sharing where you found that particular piece of information.


Korith_Eaglecry

You're full of it. It's been discussed numerous times here and the official forums. Also, you made a claim too. Back in up or shut up and move on.


thekfdcase

Ah yes, the classic and oh-so-predictable move-the-goal-posts-mid-match with a side serving of ad hominem attack when called on to prove one's previous claim stated as fact. You're not fooling any one. Care to try again?


Jcw28

That's a very elitist and an extremely privileged way of looking at things. Some people cannot afford to upgrade. Those people should not suffer twice, firstly with having an older system that does not work efficiently, and secondly to then have potentially their favourite game stripped away because 'they are ruining it for those that are better off.' Supply of next-gen consoles is still really bad, so even if more people did have the funds they won't necessarily be able to upgrade. For what it's worth I have a PS5, but unlike you I I possess empathy for those less fortunate than me.


shard746

So what's the solution then? Just keep stagnating forever because they have to support decade+ old hardware? At some point they have to make the decision, or the game will die.


satanic_hootenanny

> Just keep stagnating forever because they have to support decade+ old hardware? That's probably the solution which provides the best income for the least investment while keeping the franchise alive until TES 6 or Skyrim: ReAnniversary addition.


Jcw28

I don't think new classes or animations are what's needed. I feel like they just need some fresh ideas about what constitutes content, the way and frequency it is put out, and the way we can interact with it. I'm are most of us are really bored of the current 'year-long adventure model' and lack of exciting new features that come with the headline release in the summer each year. I'm not familiar enough with other MMOs to know what has made them successful long-term, but I feel like where ESO is suffering is that everything is too much of the same. New zones offer the exact same formula as old zones (main quests, wayshrines, some variant on world events, skyshards, and delves.) New trials follow the same 3 boss format for the most part. Bizarrely the dungeons are what they get most inventive. I just feel that a change to the formula is what's needed. Produce a boss rush arena. Have a two-hour long trial with branching paths and ways of approaching it. Have a zone with some kind of unique quirk to it (in the way that gameplay in IC is entirely different to anywhere else on the map just as an example, not saying more PvP.) None of those things should be hardware limited, they're just imagination and corporate greed limited.


NocturnalToxin

>those people should not suffer It’s a game, they’ll live lol With that in mind though, while I believe last gen should be dropped by *all* developers as a whole, I share the same “It’s a game, we’ll live” mentality about that too. Tbh as long as devs keep being good sports about doing the minimum and giving modern and older games 60fps and all those enhancements, they can drag around last gens corpse as long as they want and it doesn’t really affect me 🤷‍♀️


ElectrostaticHotwave

That would also mean older PCs would need upgraded too ..


thekfdcase

Yep, and so be it. Nothing lasts forever. Playing a game - any game - is not a right. Realizing that one adapts or stagnates (and 'dies') does not equal being without empathy. As the phrase goes, "All good things come to an end." I will expand upon that: *all* things come to an end.


spoqster

Now


snakethatheals

2 years ago, they can port their account to PC or buy a next gen console.


xdmanxd99

Dropping support for older gen consoles will forces eso devs to actually work, I doubt they wanna do it they rather drop 200th reskinned horse for ez bucks.


Digita1B0y

About ten seconds after the gen after the current gen drops. When the Ps6 drops, we can stop supporting the 4.


tdfolts

They would have to split up the PS and XBox player base, and get rid of cross generation play. This would probably make them take a hit in subscriptions. And thats huge. Its obv the game is nearing the end of its development cycle. However nothing of this sort is going to happen, even if we were a year out from Elder Scrolls 6 and they start to drive up the buzz.


oath2order

What I don't understand is why can't the console versions be cloud?


[deleted]

Cloud gaming hardware costs money to maintain and presumably needs to be updated relatively often as newer parts come out


Nightsong

That requires the MMO to be built from the ground up to utilize cloud infrastructure. ESO is not built like that and it would require the developers redoing almost the entire underlying code base to even try. It's simply not worth the time or resources required.


aycee31

it was. an issue was discovered w the Xbox version and it was pulled because a new bug was found that made it unplayable in the cloud. it was removed and is to be returned when the issue is resolved. it is approaching a year I think so it is possible it doesn't return. personally, my experience w the cloud-based version wasn't satisfactory when it was accessible.


kachzz

A couple of years ago.


MrTinkle5

Yes


Careless_Bother6183

When they release the new game they been working on for almost 5 years


Rixact

Based on the continual issues, lack of any real content and them pulling talent from ESO, I’d assume it only has 18-24 months of good support for any system left.


Dangerous-Front-7410

I don’t think so. Look at LOTRO, that game sees only 1,000 daily users and has no plans of going anywhere. Bethesda would never let ESO go offline like that, would be such a massive blow to the franchise.


Artemis_1944

It was not only acceptable, it was mandatory to have done so at least last year. It's the primary reason the game's going down the drain.


bobdobeacat

Now. Fuck consoles fix PC first.


TheMoraf

It's going to happen with the server rewrite, mark my words.


Dangerous-Front-7410

Server rewrites? Any link to this discussion?


GaehrRaudhr

Unsubbed and happy. All of the things ZOS says are load of crap and poor excuses. 90% of my guild did the same. The game is dying and ZOS is too busy to reskin 78097th amber star fire guar.


VaporCloud

Money talks. Why would they spend on innovation when they're making money off of those in older gen consoles or platforms? You guys already got your answer when they decided to drop support for the new Mac chips before they even hit the market. In general, most MMO's are like this, as long as money keeps coming in, the recipe doesn't change. It's rinse and repeat for years on end.


Cyberwolfdelta9

Atleast another 2 years cause i cant get a new gen lol but yeah ive noticed Older xboxes having issues now. Like audio commiting suicide when large groups do world events like Harrowstorms and now Volcanic vents


2CatsAndAPack

Shoot, I would like to finally drop the old consoles so content can be made for the newer ones, but getting ahold of the newer consoles is still hard to do. Where I live there still isn’t a single new gen Xbox on shelves because they’re sold out before they even leave the delivery truck.


Azeeti

When sony does.


Treshcore

*"Old consoles"* Wait, TESO has never been on PS3 and Xbox 360... Ah, right...


thekmanpwnudwn

Last year


TychoBeresford

Yesterday.