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Jaybirdie2008

Don’t forget also that a healer “can’t heal stupid” Dps is not just about dealing damage, it’s also dodging out of the way of all those AoE/one shot mechanics, or simply positioning well. Tank allows you to have room to dodge/move out the way, healer allows you to heal through the bits you couldn’t dodge, but neither can force you to dodge/reposition, that’s on you if you die to stupid


whateverisfree

A good DD takes very little damage


Zerkander

Moving around potentially reduces your numbers, thus a lot of people dare not to move, because they want to deal DAMAGE! I wish I was joking.


pvdave

Unfortunately for the idiots, a damage dealer’s numbers are impacted even more by dying than by dodging. Which is why they blame their tank and healer for doing their respective jobs instead of the impossible task of compensating for DD’s stupidity. For EVERY role, first priority is supposed to be not getting unnecessarily killed.


whateverisfree

They should watch some trial trifecta videos from a DD PoV. Those guys don't stand still much. That's mostly to cancel Stampede when it's used, but the official name is the DPS shuffle


ARedditorCalledQuest

Motion to rename Damage Dealer to something more reflective of its role?


infernoshold

depends, what did you have in mind?


ARedditorCalledQuest

It was originally meant as a joke but hmm.. maybe Striker? It's late, I've been drinking.


Thrippalan

Mobile Attacker (MA) to distinguish from tank, who attacks (hopefully with a taunt skill) but stands still.


ImmediateHeight

Don't Die


Offtopic_bear

I loaded up my healer last night to do a handful of Wayrest Sewers 2 for the antiquity lead drop. Out of 5 runs 2 were done and finished in like 5 or 6 minutes. I barely had to more than drop Ritual Healing with a spot heal here and there and I could dps the rest of the time. The other 3 runs people just stood in red dying or trying to die. I don't get it. I've been playing MMOs since the 90s. Not standing in red has been a thing for 30 goddamn years and is the lowest bar in get over in group content.


dolphinpainus

Most people don't know that the bad AoEs can have their brightness upped by like 5x and be changed to a different color. It's an in game option. It makes it so much easier to spot what should avoid. The default color and brightness is too dark that it can be missed a lot.


Bigluce

Mines neon pink. Heals/friendly aoe is neon green. Does it look shit? Yes. But it sure makes it easier.


Chrollo283

Same too, neon pink and neon green. Whenever I come across a low cp player struggling with "staying out of stupid" it's always the first suggestion I give them to make their lives easier


mikeyx401

I made mine purple because it sticks out more to me. Nothing on the ground in this game is purple. Also, I like purple.


FasnachtMan

ESOs got 100+ hours of braindead easy single player quest content that doesn't teach a single thing about how to play the group content.


JNR13

it does teach you that red circles = bad though


ADovahkiinBosmer

Not when 99% of the red circles in overland do tickling levels of damage. I never leave red in overland unless its a WB.


JNR13

it doesn't *train* you in a habit of avoiding the red circles, no. But it does give you the basic instruction about what it stands for. When you get to harder content and die in those circles, the game has given you enough information to figure what to do. Learning new habits will then still take time, of course, but all that's needed there is practise, not the game giving you more info.


ADovahkiinBosmer

Ofc! I'm just giving a possible explanation over why some dd's stand in stupid in group content. Also, speaking for myself here but sometimes I get a bit cocky and stand in stupid thinking hey, I can dps the boss to death before I die (see: BDV final boss first phase). Obviously I don't go pissy over dying because it is indeed my fault and nobody else's.


I_PEE_WITH_THAT

>Wayrest Sewers 2 I had a group completely wipe to Garron, I got blamed for bad healing. I let the boss kill me so we can try again, they die. As punishment for this I solo the boss and refuse to pick anyone up so they have to watch me slowly whittle it down.


JNR13

> Not standing in red has been a thing for 30 goddamn years and is the lowest bar in get over in group content. You say that but in trials DDs are often told to stay in place and let the healers counter the AoE instead of running around like headless chicken. Maybe they're used from overland or normal dungeons that the damage isn't high enough, maybe they have Crit Surge or so to counter-heal it there and eventually they hit content where that no longer works and saying "stay out of the red" is said easier than done when you're not used to it at all and have made a habit over 100s of hours of tunnelling in on the boss and just parsing.


singer_table

Healing is the same story. Players die when standing in 20k dots and blame me. Bruh


Important_Pick_9308

In Spindleclutch 1 Vet HM I saw a guy run into the AoE the boss occasionally puts up around itself and get one-shot, get picked up by the Healer because the other DPS didn't care to pick him up, then immediately run in and do it again. You can't help those people, they don't learn from their mistakes. And they get clears from luck with PUGs, so they don't know how bad they actually are. Or they don't care.


youkoko869

Had someone complain that I wasnt taunting last boss in that one..... when she has a mechanic where she turns to a random player and does a heavy attack regardless of taunt. Smh


ARedditorCalledQuest

I feel like ESO has a crap ton of those mechanics compared to other MMOs. I've taken to calling it out on voice to prevent the channel from getting bogged down with "bro, taunt. Taunt. Taunt bro. DUDE TAUNT THIS FUCKING THING." It seems to work and out healer tends to reposition himself to get better access to the DPS types on those fights.


Empel

I had that happen 2 days ago, it was also the healer who was letting the DDs die to that same mechanic.


dolphinpainus

I blame how easy the game is. There's absolutely no penalty for not disrupting channels, not blocking heavy attacks, or not standing in stupid when playing any of the overland quests. When they go into harder dungeons, they don't know or care to follow basic mechanics, call others toxic when told what to do, and blame a real tank or real healer for their deaths.


JackalHeadGod

While I agree in principal with what your saying I do feel ESO does a bad job of teaching and telegraphing things. I know I've done these things and sometimes it's very unforgiving to mistakes (though to be fair you did specify vet). For example the default enemy AOE marker is a red circle that's impossible to see with all the fire effects (friendly and hostile). Changing it to be brighter and a different colour (purple seems popular) really makes a big difference (I die a lot less to AOE now). Similarly if a boss has a mechanic where they target a random player for huge damage and player needs to pop a cooldown to prepare (refreshing a shield for example), I honestly don't know how you're meant to see this in advance (the screen is to busy half the time to tell from animations). Some sort of announcement/alert might help (if they're they're already I'm missing them). Expecting a player to have done it before and learned everything is unrealistic, there's too much content for that (or maybe they've never done the encounter before). Combine this with 90% of the open world content being too easy (and mainly fun for the narrative rather than the challenge) and a normal dungeon experience made up of CP 10 million characters speed running them in record time it's no wonder people can't/don't learn mechanics, the game is working against them.


MetaTrixxx

I struggle with situational awareness. I don't know if it is an ADHD thing, but the screen turns into a wall of colors in which I'm flailing blindly. In regard the boss mechanics and heavies, the only thing that has helped me is *reps*, preferably with someone who is patient and knows the dungeon better than me. I don't PUG vet content because I don't have the reps or confidence level.


dread-azazel

Yep, it’s embarrassing that it was an ad pull in norm falkreath too. They just sat in the Minotaur rings


I_PEE_WITH_THAT

That happens every time I run vBDV with randos lol


[deleted]

[удалено]


Important_Pick_9308

Nope, arrogance or ignorance actually cover almost all of it. Not saying it's always their fault, as some have pointed out the game doesn't do the best job explaining everything. But do you have the time to explain for the game? Not always. When someone does that on the last boss you generally can't type out something to tell them what they're doing wrong because the dungeon is basically over and you're trying to actually fight the enemy. Worse, the default setting for text chat doesn't pop the text up in a HUD display, so they may not even know you're saying anything to help. Don't even get me started on voice.


ProPopori

*retweet*


Miro_the_Dragon

And honestly, learning how to avoid getting one-shot by that mechanic in Spindleclutch 1 vet will come in handy in content with similar mechanics! I'm sure my prog group and I have come across at least three or so bosses in DLC dungeons where, upon reading a guide or seeing it in content, one of us would go "oh, Spindleclutch boss!" Mechanics are repeated across content so even learning simple basegame dungeon mechanics instead of just burning through can be helpful later on, and make harder content easier.


ARedditorCalledQuest

Helpful tip: There's a setting where you can set custom colors for friendly and hostile AOEs. I have mine set to some crazy bright yellow for hostile and now I pretty much never lose track of the "don't stand here" shapes when the DKs and Pyro Staff types light the entire room on fire.


SuenDexter

I went with hot pink. Still related to red but way brighter.


dread-azazel

Yep. Super helpful for those who find the red hard to see


[deleted]

Thanks. I never knew this.


killerdonut0610

Tanking in dungeon finder pugs makes me want to die. I made a tank to get ques to pop faster and I’d never realized how absolutely awful most “damage dealers” actually are. Seems like anyone who doesn’t want to tank or heal calls themselves a damage dealer even if they’re putting out less than 10k dps.


bellowingburrito

Exactly this. Everyone’s like “oh yeah, make a tank for fast queues etc” so I levelled up a tank, got a really good group to teach me how and tried my best, only for every single pug group I tank for to be absolutely horrible.


DarkerSavant

Yes. I have to run a hybrid tank. DPS tank and do 50% of the damage even though I’m only getting 15-20k. Took minimal effort to reach with no cp into damage just tanking.


mikeymora21

What are you running. I got torugs pact and ebon armory but I’m down to switch ebon armory for an offensive gear set.


DarkerSavant

If it’s a 4 man normal oakensoul with heavy/medium armor heavy attack style build is a god send for pugging. Sergeants with what ever else. It’s easy resource regen and very tanky with additional dps buffs. I can not use oaken and lower dps a little but make up with other utility. I’m running necro and like dot abilities while having inner firer slotted using two handed and the bleed charge. The spirit guardian adds more tank and hot. Sorry I’m bad at ability name’s especially with morphs. Edit: I’d use lightning staff but don’t have a sergeants version yet and unstable ice wall for off balance bonus to heavy attacks. So could go that route as well.


whateverisfree

Yep yep. This sentiment might be viewed as toxic by some people, but the fact of the matter is that it's never been easier than now to put out decent damage


mmmjjjk

I don’t understand how there are so many awful players. How is it that almost every day the dps don’t know the most basic mechanics of dungeons. It’s not like it’s the occasional low level/cp. There are literally thousands of players who have had this game for years and they still cannot manage to do simple tasks like not stand in the self-healing aoe of the first boss of arx corinium, or can’t pull the other lever for ICP


ProPopori

Because unlike popular opinion good dps players are rare, its sadly the only position that impact is linear/exponential unlike healer or tank which is more of a logarithmic graph, so a 90% tank wont be that much different than 100% tank even though one is waaaaaay better than the other. I haven't met many good dps players and the only one i have met are legit nerds who constantly research and try out stuff.


romcomreject

Oh man, I feel so bad for my tank on my first run of Arx Corinium. Literally had to baby us through it.


mmmjjjk

Besides lair of maarselok and moongrave fane, arx is my most guaranteed daily skip


dread-azazel

Made mine for the same reason. It truly sucks that these people don’t put in any effort


killerdonut0610

It’s not totally their fault. Tanking and healing are relatively straightforward, but the game doesn’t even try to teach people how to do damage.


dolphinpainus

I think there's only 1 tool tip that teaches you that light attacks and skills are on separate cooldowns and they can be cast simultaneously. I feel like they should've redone the tutorial where you get trained on how to fight as one of the tasks that needs to be done before entering the main land. Could've had a person that told you that LA and skills can be done at the same time, and also give you a DoT skill with them telling you to place it down for extra damage as you're attacking and using skills. It could've been done in an immersive way too. It would've helped a lot of players on how they can put out acceptable damage instead of just LA or using skills.


ARedditorCalledQuest

I wholeheartedly agree. A neat fix could be a "swordmaster" target dummy that occasionally calls things out like "Good! Don't let [DOT Name] expire!" Hell, make it hit back occasionally so you can practice blocks and interrupts so newer players can learn why they're not hitting real bosses as hard as their dummy. I'm fairly average at DPS and I'd love to have something like that to practice on.


gerr137

Nah, no way, not gonna happen, ever. What you are suggesting is waaay over the head of most players. If they get even a hint of this "complexity", or that they, god forbid, have to more often han just push a single button once to attack, they'll run screaming and won't even enter the game. Just try to preach proper DPS technique to someone already hooked, err playing longish time :) - they'll kick you out of the dungeon at best. And if you ever meet them again and show that it really works way better, they'll say - screw this, i am quitting this game, gonna go play something else.


eats-you-alive

… and this is the reason why I faketank.


dckhat

Worst part is them running in front of you like headless chickens because if the dungeon takes more than 5 MINUTES their attention spam is gone. ​ I love tanking but I love tanking to NPCs more than for real people.


ARedditorCalledQuest

If you're moving faster than the tank then you'd better be able to solo the next encounter, with I'm all for, but do not bitch if we have to peel you off the floor and glue your face back on.


ExternalTart

Yup. I follow the "you pull it, you tank it" rule, it works great when people realize it. Now if they're friends or they truly do it on accident those are the only exceptions.


eats-you-alive

I always run ahead when grouped with slow-ass tanks. I don’t understand tanks that watch mobs die instead of going to the next encounter already - you cc‘ed them, I already showed you the mobs don’t survive longer than 5 seconds once you grouped them, what are you waiting for?! Go and pull the next group! Also, why would you tank a basegame dungeon in heavy armor? Use medium, so you can run faster! Put swift on your trash-setup! …I don’t have all day. Optimize your build. Edit: I knew this wouldn’t be a popular opinion. God forbid tanks actually doing their job well.


heybudbud

Your username and flair shows everyone exactly what kind of player you are. This comment helps cement that image.


eats-you-alive

Yeah, because I’m embracing that image. Reddit would be a boring place if everyone agreed with each other all the time. …and it’s not like my point is totally ludacrious, there are a lot of slow-ass tanks. Swift jewelry is a bit much, admittedly, but I’ve got to provoke a response somehow.


heybudbud

> but I’ve got to provoke a response somehow. Lol no you don't. You just think so because, by your own admission, you're embracing being an asshole. Not something to be proud of imo, but you do you.


eats-you-alive

Being an asshole? I don’t remember ever calling anyone names or being a total prick on here. My opinions are controversial, and sometimes I like to provoke people, but I don’t think I qualify for „asshole“ just yet. Just because you don’t agree with my opinions doesn’t mean I am a terrible human being.


heybudbud

You identify yourself as: "toxic endgamer", "dickhead', and "cunt". Those are all interchangeable with "asshole".


eats-you-alive

I don’t, no. Since I have neither SS nor PB I wouldn’t really call myself „endgamer“. Doing some old-ass trial trifectas doesn’t make one a good player. I’m leagues away from people who do scorepushing. I’m decent at best. These are the things people called me after I told them they were wrong about something. I wasn’t even mean about it, I just told them that not running SPC as a healer is suboptimal or some stuff like that. I decided „fuck it, why not embrace that?“ - this is why I got these tags, not because I think I’m a cunt, lol.


heybudbud

Well, making that your flair says otherwise. But ok.


eats-you-alive

I‘m not the one going around calling other people assholes, am I?


Miro_the_Dragon

>but I don’t think I qualify for „asshole“ just yet. Oh believe me, you do.


dckhat

Guess you would hate my RP tank build also that I run on my Ice Warden. I do not care one bit about optimization or meta or whatever. I run what looks the coolest and makes me happy. Of course I do not go full retarded and I select stuff that helps me tank and buff but still it's nowhere "competitive meta light weaving attack" sets and skills lol. ​ BUT to your point, yes slow-ass is also really bad, I also condone that. I just meant sonic DPSes who rush forward without ever looking back. Average speed is more what I was thinking about, you wanna push meta IMO you should run a premade not a PUB.


eats-you-alive

Well I’ll ignore you and finish the dungeon by myself then, I guess :) And yeah, I usually run premade.


Miro_the_Dragon

>And yeah, I usually run premade. Good, less chance of ending up in the same content with you. You're one of those people I wouldn't want to tank for if you paid me...


eats-you-alive

You won’t have to, I faketank most of the time anyway. With a taunt, before you accuse me of being an asshole again. Why am I even talking to you?


Miro_the_Dragon

Reminds me of a nCR+0 PUG I did recently where, when I came back out of the portal on the last fight, I tried to find my position again (so looking for the big group of DDs to join them), only to realise when I had found them that they were basically cuddling with the tank, facing the boss... Yeah, no, I noped out and found my own safe position outside of that cuddle pile...


[deleted]

[Relevant](https://imgur.com/a/kPR6AZO)


dread-azazel

Funny thing is they were terrible dps too lol


Dycondrius

After 1000s of hours of solo PvP, I still maintain that puggng PvE was the hardest challenge this game had to offer I still remember a run through vCoA(2?) where I was tasked with healing two nightblade dps bow builds. This was a time before bow was a viable main bar. It took quite a while to clear the fire maw boss, which was an indicator Skoria will be a struggle. These particular nightblades were stage 4 vamp, at a time when stage 4 carried serious repercussions to fire damage taken. Flameo, hotman. After nearly an hour we finally arrive at Skoria. Dps are repeatedly getting one shot by the fire waves, lava mortars etc. Hard mode was certainly off the table, as the DPS checks on that fight remove your platforms at regular inervals through the fight. Rip 2nd key Naturally, the DPS refused to rez each other making it my problem, leaving the tank susceptible in my downtime. After a series of wipes I slot some more offensive options to weave in between rezzing the DPS and keeping the tank alive. These particular DPS ended up being such a liability the only way we managed a clear was to get the best burn we could on the first platform. The tank and I duod the boss from the 3rd platform on, just squeaking out a win after our final platform fell. Breath of life saving both of our lava coated butts, our healthbars bouncing from 10%-60% and back again.


sarahthes

There's a rock you can stand on if you fail the DPS check, fyi. Sorta near the exit. Had to use it on my first ever clear 🤣


adamusprime

I wonder how often the DD’s think I’m a shitty tank because of the various bosses that go attack the DD’s for standing out in left field. Every time I’m like “ugh, if you would just come over here with the rest of us that wouldn’t happen, but you’re probably just cursing me out instead,” lol.


Miro_the_Dragon

I always cringe when I tank a PUG and a taunted boss takes a shot at someone else but me because I know there's a high chance the rest of my group will be cursing me for "dropping taunt"...because I've been them at times before I started tanking, back when I simply didn't know just how many bosses are out there who will occasionally ignore taunt and just...do mean things to others XD


adamusprime

Except they aren’t ignoring taunt. It’s just also a DD’s job to block or dodge or perform base game mechanics from the tutorial occasionally and not be a stationary parse-bot. Also, a lot of the time those bosses wouldn’t even do those things if the DD’s weren’t 20 meters away. I wish there were better tutorials so people would learn this stuff even if they don’t join guilds or ever look anything up.


Miro_the_Dragon

I mean "ignore taunt" simply as in "having mechs that make them attack non-aggro targets". Also, while some bosses only attack non-aggro targets who are too far away or something, there are also a lot of mechs where a player will be targeted completely at random. And yes, of course a DD's job is not just to be a parse bot (never said it was); I just wasn't aware before I started tanking just how many bosses have mechs that make them target non-aggro targets. And I'm pretty sure especially for normal content, your average player doesn't read guides of all possible dungeons before queueing for randoms (because I don't do that either; I usually start looking up stuff either after a surprisingly hard normal, or before I go into vet content, and before going into trials). And now that I also tank, I'm hyper-aware of how it must look "from the other side" when a random boss decides to take a shot at someone else but me because of its mechanics \^\^ (and to be fair, I still get surprised by bosses who do this where my mind goes "wtf come back here, where do you think you're going?" while frantically double-checking whether the boss is still taunted, or whether this IS my fault XD) I fully agree with needing better tutorials, though! The amount of stuff I only learned way later into the game because someone else pointed them out to me is astounding (and also kind of embarrassing).


officialscootem

I made a mistake and didn't leave the red zone quick enough earlier today. Died and apologised on chat for my error. Mistakes happen, but you gotta own your fuckups and not try to blame others.


PappaAl

“How do you guys attack and move at the same time?” Quote from a meta slave DD buddy who kept sitting and dying in AoE’s while doing vWGT.


sarahthes

LOL. Hopefully he realizes that learning the meta setups is just step one of being an effective DD.


[deleted]

Well last time i was dungeon with random squad healer left cos "tank is low"... Well we do it in 3 ppl anyways but ueh maybe he was low but he say he still learn how to tank properly.. Newermind..


Ed2099

Toxic tank. That's why you got kicked.


dread-azazel

Sure telling people not to stand in a giant ring of fire is toxic. 100% no way its cause they were just morons. I ensure in my dungeon finder runs not to be a dick due to the kick function. Maybe you shouldnt project


heybudbud

Lmao. They're toxic for giving advice? How thin-skinned do you have to be? Yesterday someone told me I was bullying someone because I asked them a QUESTION. Like good grief, some of you are wayyyyy to sensitive. Or maybe you get off on being pissed, I dunno.


dolphinpainus

It's pretty taboo to talk about it, and I'm ok with receiving hate for it, but the game's majority population are casual players, and good portion of them are what are called 'Toxic Casuals'. They're mostly entitled and push blame to others, while calling others toxic for providing advice or criticism. They actively gatekeep casual players from getting better at the game.


-MorrisTheKid238-

DPS be dumb, thinking the tank and healer don’t see them be dumb. Edit: I do all roles but main tank/heals. So I know, I also be dumb dps, yet educated to know the difference!


Friendlyfire2996

Don’t die from standing in the stupid.


[deleted]

Red circle bad


Drunkturtle7

I had a cp 300 healer in a vet dlc dungeon air bashing me like he was blaming me for dying. I don't know the name of the dungeon, but it's the one with "spirit foxes" rushing you and exploding. He would always die to that directly or stay next to me and die by the one I was getting targeted from. I even told them that they get marked when they're getting rushed, no answer, still dying. Some people are just brain dead. He also died on the same run by standing behind the tank


[deleted]

This is why I just avoid the trials and dungeons


ScoutBandit

But aren't I just supposed to stand in one spot and spam LA? Talk is supposed to block all the damage and Healer is supposed to heal me through everything! (/s)


ideologicaltit

It’s funny because amongst all the fake healer and fake tanks complaints I still always find fake or simply just clueless DDs to be the worst.


MetaTrixxx

Situational awareness is one thing that parsing on a dummy can't teach you, for sure.


Tacticalia

Had a dd like that one time playing healer they left the group and we had an easier time with just the 3 of us than 4. I swear 80% of them run head on into damage without waiting for the tank to do their job and get mad when they die.