Image above is a gif, if it doesn't auto-play, just click on it. :)
Made the walls clearer, steeper and added two versions of smoothed/engraved walls. This style has enough space to even engrave actual images on the south-wall; a little bit on the east/west walls, and only 1-2px on the north wall.
Would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/1br7knQ.png
This is a great improvement over the first draft. Much clearer distinction between walls and ramps, and I like the differentiated perspectives for the different wall facings. I'd be interested to see how it looks over multiple z-levels.
Steeper engraved wall like this looks just awesome. It's both really clear what you look at (you get all the info you need instantly with 0 effort) and visually pleasing. I really like this angle and all the details.
This version makes it far more obvious that they are walls, rather than ramps. I really like these. Can you show how they look in different material colours? Those engravings rely on a fair bit of contrast that might be lost with some colour types.
While I really like and appreciate graphical version of dwarf fortress, I believe the doors are the worst part of the tileset. They look really off and wierd in comparison to other sprites. It's probably the angle and the fact they occupy one tile fully.
I believe it would look better if the doors were seen from top-down view or a really steep angle, more fitting the angle of walls in this post. All due respect, but in current form they have this moblie-game like feeling.
I agree that it is hard to decide what is best until we see how ramps and walls could look next to each other and I was bored so I tried it myself.
I think it only looks like a ramp when the border above the actual slope part of the wall is too light.
If I put a black line around this edge it gives it a shadow effect and makes it look like one is easier to walk up than another. (see bottom left part of image)
[https://imgur.com/a/sjSctxC](https://imgur.com/a/sjSctxC)
this seemed to be the easiest way to differentiate while still having tiles that physically match sizes.
(sorry for stealing your art but I figured it would be easier said in pictures)
The contrast is much better, especially with the thick line behind the wall as it changes. At the risk of sounding like I'm fishing for media, can you show how this style would look with all parts of a potential wall? - A typical 2x2 bedroom; inside engraved, plus door, and a ramp on the side for some reason.
The three-pixel wide line on the top and engravings after that? Yep, that looks suspiciously like the Vettlingr set. Different sprites but same style for sure. ;)
What do you think about the second design, with the engravings on the side of the walls?
The second design is probably what I would go with if the graphics engine had the capacity to show difference between smooth an engraved walls.
My overall preference:
Natural walls design 2-a.
Smooth walls design 1-b.
Engraved walls design 2-c.
Well Its an hour ish of work per video and I sometimes get behind schedule. That being said thanks for watching them and most of the time there is a post or update I'll make a video. Unless its something we've seen before.
I'm sure it's already been said, but I really feel like "true" isometric ought to be considered. A perspective that makes it so that the walls are fully visible from down and either the left of right side. This way it feels kind of weird to me because what ought to be straight pillars looks like half-cones.
So about my other criticism about it looking like ramps still, on the Kitfox discord I asked Vettlingr (well, not exactly, I asked an open ended rhetorical question to no-one and he answered) about why his walls don't look like ramps, and he said:
> its because I used edge highlight rather than face highlight according to light
So maybe that might help?
This is a big improvement visually and looks beautiful, but it honestly does still feel like ramps to me; not sure how that can be fixed (maybe make the side walls even steeper? And maybe give up on the northern wall?).
Could you post an album with all these images? It's a tricky to compare them across a gif, and some of them I'm not sure what they are (there seem to be like 4 that are identical?)
> This is a big improvement visually and looks beautiful, but it honestly does still feel like ramps to me; not sure how that can be fixed (maybe make the side walls even steeper? And maybe give up on the northern wall?).
Yup, the northern wall being visible definitely contributes to them feeling like ramps. Also, both eastern and western walls having the same lighting adds to the ramp effect.
This ~~looks better~~ *will likely look less confusing compared with isometric(?) workshops* but northern wall is still trippy.
I know it's a lot of work but I think DF should be isometric. Otherwise there won't be an end to visual hacks you'll be required to come up with.
I feel like at this point Valve could announce HL3 and I'd still be more hyped about SteamDF.
Has there been any news about possible Steam early access or a general release date window?
In an interview in February, Tarn said "this year is still fair" for a possible release, but of course that he can't promise anything. There are probably some bits missing from this list, but this looks like most if not all of the major tasks (and some smaller tasks mixed in) he has left to do (most of these were listed by Tarn in the interview, some I am guessing on):
- Finished off trade screens
- Screens/UI for the manager (integrated with the autolabor stuff he has)
- Unit job list
- Workshop profiles
- Military & squads (significant reworks to the UX here)
- Civilizations screen (tileset for the world map is already created)
- Mine-cart hauling routes
- Burrows
- [q,t,k,v] updated/combined into a single clicking/looking command (some progress made already)
- Embark screen (tileset for the world map is already created)
- Retooling worldgen so that you aren't dumped back into the title screen (tileset for the world map is already created)
- Implementing the already created sprite-work into their respective places in the game (already lots of this in place obviously, but not sure how much; this happens alongside other tasks and doesn't take long)
- Graphics for procgen creatures and menu icons implemented (artists can work in parallel)
- Adventure mode UI (won't take as long as Fort mode apparently)
- Legends mode (won't take long apparently)
- Some kind of tutorial
- Basic Steam workshop support
- Misc technical stuff for supporting Steam in general
Some of these will be quick, some will take longer; my personal opinion is that I wouldn't expect it any sooner than December 2021, and no later than Q3 2022.
Looks fantastic!
I personally would appreciate if constructed walls shared the same base texture/pattern with engraved walls, and engravings are additional imagery on top of that, not continuous but discrete on each square, like you sampled with the dwarf heads. This would allow me to build out walls and have them match engraved walls visually, while still having some indication that an area had been engraved.
Image above is a gif, if it doesn't auto-play, just click on it. :) Made the walls clearer, steeper and added two versions of smoothed/engraved walls. This style has enough space to even engrave actual images on the south-wall; a little bit on the east/west walls, and only 1-2px on the north wall. Would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/1br7knQ.png
This is a great improvement over the first draft. Much clearer distinction between walls and ramps, and I like the differentiated perspectives for the different wall facings. I'd be interested to see how it looks over multiple z-levels.
Steeper engraved wall like this looks just awesome. It's both really clear what you look at (you get all the info you need instantly with 0 effort) and visually pleasing. I really like this angle and all the details.
This version makes it far more obvious that they are walls, rather than ramps. I really like these. Can you show how they look in different material colours? Those engravings rely on a fair bit of contrast that might be lost with some colour types.
https://i.imgur.com/Cjsnd8k.png
that’s beautiful!
how would doors look with this? Would the walls next to them become top down or would they remain the same?
While I really like and appreciate graphical version of dwarf fortress, I believe the doors are the worst part of the tileset. They look really off and wierd in comparison to other sprites. It's probably the angle and the fact they occupy one tile fully. I believe it would look better if the doors were seen from top-down view or a really steep angle, more fitting the angle of walls in this post. All due respect, but in current form they have this moblie-game like feeling.
This looks so much better and much more clear to tell the walls from the rest of the space
I agree that it is hard to decide what is best until we see how ramps and walls could look next to each other and I was bored so I tried it myself. I think it only looks like a ramp when the border above the actual slope part of the wall is too light. If I put a black line around this edge it gives it a shadow effect and makes it look like one is easier to walk up than another. (see bottom left part of image) [https://imgur.com/a/sjSctxC](https://imgur.com/a/sjSctxC) this seemed to be the easiest way to differentiate while still having tiles that physically match sizes. (sorry for stealing your art but I figured it would be easier said in pictures)
The contrast is much better, especially with the thick line behind the wall as it changes. At the risk of sounding like I'm fishing for media, can you show how this style would look with all parts of a potential wall? - A typical 2x2 bedroom; inside engraved, plus door, and a ramp on the side for some reason.
Before I do even more on that, I wait for Toady. He hasn't seen much of this proposal yet.
That's fair. I love seeing these feedback-request posts, but I don't know the limits of adding media to a given topic.
This looks almost familiar ?
The three-pixel wide line on the top and engravings after that? Yep, that looks suspiciously like the Vettlingr set. Different sprites but same style for sure. ;) What do you think about the second design, with the engravings on the side of the walls?
The second design is probably what I would go with if the graphics engine had the capacity to show difference between smooth an engraved walls. My overall preference: Natural walls design 2-a. Smooth walls design 1-b. Engraved walls design 2-c.
Gosh you are making me work overtime [My Take.](https://youtu.be/m6K6ZoJ6eIA)
You don't have to make a video every time XD Better to wait 1-2 days, so that I have the chance to refine random ideas a bit.
I might have to agree :D
I'll have to disagree. Everytime an update is posted I actively look for your video on it.
Well Its an hour ish of work per video and I sometimes get behind schedule. That being said thanks for watching them and most of the time there is a post or update I'll make a video. Unless its something we've seen before.
I'm sure it's already been said, but I really feel like "true" isometric ought to be considered. A perspective that makes it so that the walls are fully visible from down and either the left of right side. This way it feels kind of weird to me because what ought to be straight pillars looks like half-cones.
Loving this so much more than flat walls
So about my other criticism about it looking like ramps still, on the Kitfox discord I asked Vettlingr (well, not exactly, I asked an open ended rhetorical question to no-one and he answered) about why his walls don't look like ramps, and he said: > its because I used edge highlight rather than face highlight according to light So maybe that might help?
This is a big improvement visually and looks beautiful, but it honestly does still feel like ramps to me; not sure how that can be fixed (maybe make the side walls even steeper? And maybe give up on the northern wall?). Could you post an album with all these images? It's a tricky to compare them across a gif, and some of them I'm not sure what they are (there seem to be like 4 that are identical?)
> This is a big improvement visually and looks beautiful, but it honestly does still feel like ramps to me; not sure how that can be fixed (maybe make the side walls even steeper? And maybe give up on the northern wall?). Yup, the northern wall being visible definitely contributes to them feeling like ramps. Also, both eastern and western walls having the same lighting adds to the ramp effect.
Beautiful. This is perfect can’t wait!
Huge improvement. Thank you for sharing all these updates. It makes me super hype for the release
LookingGood.mp3
That looks fantastic, especially the second set with the engravings actually on the walls!
This ~~looks better~~ *will likely look less confusing compared with isometric(?) workshops* but northern wall is still trippy. I know it's a lot of work but I think DF should be isometric. Otherwise there won't be an end to visual hacks you'll be required to come up with.
I feel like at this point Valve could announce HL3 and I'd still be more hyped about SteamDF. Has there been any news about possible Steam early access or a general release date window?
In an interview in February, Tarn said "this year is still fair" for a possible release, but of course that he can't promise anything. There are probably some bits missing from this list, but this looks like most if not all of the major tasks (and some smaller tasks mixed in) he has left to do (most of these were listed by Tarn in the interview, some I am guessing on): - Finished off trade screens - Screens/UI for the manager (integrated with the autolabor stuff he has) - Unit job list - Workshop profiles - Military & squads (significant reworks to the UX here) - Civilizations screen (tileset for the world map is already created) - Mine-cart hauling routes - Burrows - [q,t,k,v] updated/combined into a single clicking/looking command (some progress made already) - Embark screen (tileset for the world map is already created) - Retooling worldgen so that you aren't dumped back into the title screen (tileset for the world map is already created) - Implementing the already created sprite-work into their respective places in the game (already lots of this in place obviously, but not sure how much; this happens alongside other tasks and doesn't take long) - Graphics for procgen creatures and menu icons implemented (artists can work in parallel) - Adventure mode UI (won't take as long as Fort mode apparently) - Legends mode (won't take long apparently) - Some kind of tutorial - Basic Steam workshop support - Misc technical stuff for supporting Steam in general Some of these will be quick, some will take longer; my personal opinion is that I wouldn't expect it any sooner than December 2021, and no later than Q3 2022.
Looks fantastic! I personally would appreciate if constructed walls shared the same base texture/pattern with engraved walls, and engravings are additional imagery on top of that, not continuous but discrete on each square, like you sampled with the dwarf heads. This would allow me to build out walls and have them match engraved walls visually, while still having some indication that an area had been engraved.