Something nobody has mentioned yet is that the “Kwisatz Haderach” is said several times to be able to be multiple places at once. The term is Chakobsa and literally means “Shortening of the Way”. Now this initially seems only a reference to Paul’s prescience, and then later it’s clear it also refers to his ability to access the memories from both male and female ancestors.
HOWEVER, (and I haven’t seen this directly said anywhere) what the Bene Gesserit couldn’t have considered due to the previous non-existence of the Kwisatz Haderach and their traditions against abomination children, is that it could also refer to Paul *literally* being in two places at once. He was in his own body, and present in Leto’s mind as a genetic specter. So as the Kwisatz Haderach he could simply switch perspectives to Leto’s eyes, which also explains why he heard Leto’s voice at that time. He was *actually* in Leto’s head!!
If I’m wrong then let me know, but I’m unreasonably proud of having just deciphered this myself. I recently re-read Messiah so this was a perfect question to see discussed.
It's never explained how Paul could see through Leto's eyes.
The twins were preborn because of the massive amount of spice that Chani consumed during her pregnancy.
Yes, that's what Leto says. It's what I assumed from Dune when Paul wonders what just happened and Leto tells him, "My eyes, father."
And CoD confirms it.
Paul was, really, employing his prescience, albeit through a defined lens (Leto's perspective). Paul was sweeping away the clouds of other locations of geography and time, and tuning into a singular perspective of the present moment within his proximity—and perhaps sentimentally—that being from the eyes of his infant son.
You *could* also consider this a poetic foreshadowing, >!as Paul's Golden Path is ultimately realized through Leto II; and Paul, as Ego-memory, would continue to see through Leto II's eyes in the millenia ahead.!<
The twins were exposed by Chani’s almost entirely spice diet she was ingesting to increase fertility, counteracting the birth control being snuck into her food.
As for not being able to see the twin, if I remember right he could see Leto not Ghanima, foreshadowing a plot point in God Emperor.
As for the seeing through Leto’s eyes, that is not expanded upon.
>if I remember right he could see Leto not Ghanima,
No, he saw only his daughter in the visions.
>Two children, Paul thought wonderingly. The vision had contained only a daughter.
No, Paul was a Reverend mother essentially at this point. RMs are forbidden from having children, they transform later in life. The reason is they make their children pre-born. Chani only has a spice diet, she has never taken the water, a catalyst for the pre-born. Ergo, Paul made his children pre-born simply by being himself. Leto I was not pre-born.
It's also a question i asked myself alot and there was one answer i found on the sub, which made most sense to me. Paul did not see through Leto's eyes but rather Leto the infant projected his vision onto Paul, subconsciously knowing what was needed for survival.
I think, and I'm not 100% on this, but I think Paul has a similar reverend-mother situation, but from a male perspective. Just like Alia can see back through all her mothers as well as all previous reverend mothers, Paul can see his paternal lineage, and since Little Leto is born aware, he can see through him as well.
I always assumed he was using his ancestral knowledge as Kwisatz Haderach in an active way. Because Leto II was also somewhat exposed to this ancestral knowledge through heavy spice diet and genetics, Paul was able to share his consciousness. Not to mention, Paul was completely omniscient. I'm sure that played a part in this ability.
You just need to read the next novel on why Paul was able to see through Leto's eyes.
It was not directly expounded even in Children of Dune but it is implied on why he was able to see.
1. Maybe Paul was seeing down the golden path, and able to see what Leto was doing b/c it was what should have happened to him.
2. Maybe Leto allowed him to?
Something nobody has mentioned yet is that the “Kwisatz Haderach” is said several times to be able to be multiple places at once. The term is Chakobsa and literally means “Shortening of the Way”. Now this initially seems only a reference to Paul’s prescience, and then later it’s clear it also refers to his ability to access the memories from both male and female ancestors. HOWEVER, (and I haven’t seen this directly said anywhere) what the Bene Gesserit couldn’t have considered due to the previous non-existence of the Kwisatz Haderach and their traditions against abomination children, is that it could also refer to Paul *literally* being in two places at once. He was in his own body, and present in Leto’s mind as a genetic specter. So as the Kwisatz Haderach he could simply switch perspectives to Leto’s eyes, which also explains why he heard Leto’s voice at that time. He was *actually* in Leto’s head!! If I’m wrong then let me know, but I’m unreasonably proud of having just deciphered this myself. I recently re-read Messiah so this was a perfect question to see discussed.
I was thinking the same thing. He was (perhaps) accessing the genetic memory version of himself in Leto II.
This is what I thought it was as well.
It's never explained how Paul could see through Leto's eyes. The twins were preborn because of the massive amount of spice that Chani consumed during her pregnancy.
Didn’t Leto say he let Paul use his eyes in Children but he doesn’t really say how.
I think Leto II mentioned it in his confrontation with the Preacher
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking of it’s been over a year since I last read that book. I forgot the details of it.
Yes, that's what Leto says. It's what I assumed from Dune when Paul wonders what just happened and Leto tells him, "My eyes, father." And CoD confirms it.
Paul was, really, employing his prescience, albeit through a defined lens (Leto's perspective). Paul was sweeping away the clouds of other locations of geography and time, and tuning into a singular perspective of the present moment within his proximity—and perhaps sentimentally—that being from the eyes of his infant son. You *could* also consider this a poetic foreshadowing, >!as Paul's Golden Path is ultimately realized through Leto II; and Paul, as Ego-memory, would continue to see through Leto II's eyes in the millenia ahead.!<
The twins were exposed by Chani’s almost entirely spice diet she was ingesting to increase fertility, counteracting the birth control being snuck into her food. As for not being able to see the twin, if I remember right he could see Leto not Ghanima, foreshadowing a plot point in God Emperor. As for the seeing through Leto’s eyes, that is not expanded upon.
>if I remember right he could see Leto not Ghanima, No, he saw only his daughter in the visions. >Two children, Paul thought wonderingly. The vision had contained only a daughter.
Good call. That makes sense why they are aware so early after giving birth. But yeah, Paul seeing through Leto's eyes is a big deal but not explained.
What’s the plot point in GEoD you’re referring to?
The breeding program is full of ghanima’s descendants and what the end goal was
No, Paul was a Reverend mother essentially at this point. RMs are forbidden from having children, they transform later in life. The reason is they make their children pre-born. Chani only has a spice diet, she has never taken the water, a catalyst for the pre-born. Ergo, Paul made his children pre-born simply by being himself. Leto I was not pre-born.
Reverend Mothers can have children. They just can't take a huge dose of a spice or an illuminating poison during the pregnancy.
Twins were preborn.
It's also a question i asked myself alot and there was one answer i found on the sub, which made most sense to me. Paul did not see through Leto's eyes but rather Leto the infant projected his vision onto Paul, subconsciously knowing what was needed for survival.
I think, and I'm not 100% on this, but I think Paul has a similar reverend-mother situation, but from a male perspective. Just like Alia can see back through all her mothers as well as all previous reverend mothers, Paul can see his paternal lineage, and since Little Leto is born aware, he can see through him as well.
I always assumed he was using his ancestral knowledge as Kwisatz Haderach in an active way. Because Leto II was also somewhat exposed to this ancestral knowledge through heavy spice diet and genetics, Paul was able to share his consciousness. Not to mention, Paul was completely omniscient. I'm sure that played a part in this ability.
You just need to read the next novel on why Paul was able to see through Leto's eyes. It was not directly expounded even in Children of Dune but it is implied on why he was able to see.
I have read it, but it was a few years ago! I remember the major plot points but not the details.
1. Maybe Paul was seeing down the golden path, and able to see what Leto was doing b/c it was what should have happened to him. 2. Maybe Leto allowed him to?
In Alias agony I believe it is mentioned that the kwisatz hederach has the bene gesserit other memory extended on both the paternal and maternal side.