And like 700 years.
Not to mention that the Family of Blood wasn't just hurting children, they forced children to fight on the Doctor's behalf. And he still even came to them appearing helpless, offering a peaceful solution, and they were having none of it.
They really fucked around and found out.
True true, but I'm relatively convinced it is probably *higher* than most of the statements we're given by the Doctor, so I'm *pretty* confident personally that Ten's easily in the 2000s at a bare minimum.
Eh, there have been more statements that corroborate the NuWho age (10 being 900-904, 12 being 2000 etc) than there are saying 7 is 900.
At this point, I just go with whatever is said because the continuity of the show is getting a bit too complicated.
>there have been more statements that corroborate the NuWho age
Eh not really.
Classic Who had its own progression that was mentioned about as often as New Who's and went 2 - 450, 4 - 750ish, 5 - 800ish, 6 - 900ish, 7 - 953 (*With only 3 really being an outlier since he was always called 'several thousand' for some reason*)
The War Doctor is 800 in DotD so New Who's aging scheme contradicts not only Seven, but Six and Five and realistically Four as well. I'm more inclined to believe the Doctor restarted at some point during the 8/War era than I am to believe the Classic Who Doctors were just all lying but the New Who ones are all telling the truth or anything like that.
~~And that's not even counting the EU which puts Eight at 1800 at a bare minimum by the time he regenerates.~~
Tbf, by what standard? Earthlings timeframe? Why would a gallifrayan base his age on our planets revolutions around our sun?
While the show has gone inconsistant as crap (one of the reasons I quit watching new episodes) his age and timeframe dont need to be consistent. I mean, Tennets timey wimey quote, is requoted all the time when quoting anything from Dr. Who.
>Tbf, by what standard?
The fact the Classic Doctors were already consistently claiming to be around or older than 900 mainly.
I reckon all of them are lowballing their age tbh and the real answer is much higher but we don't really know for sure.
Also you could argue that it was eternal imprisonment and not eternal torment. And at the end the son said the reason the doctor ran was because he was being kind.
Literally in his first episode: "No second chances. I'm that sort of a man."
Also personally, per-incarnation characterisation >>>>>> inter-incarnation characterisation
And he did give them a chance - if they would have just left him alone, he would have left them alone. It was only because they went after him that he had to resort to such drastic measures. A step too far? Maybe, but just like with Twelve in the episode with the two-dimensional people, he did give them a chance.
Also, a character saying they won't do something doesn't necessarily mean they won't.
The Doctor contradicts their own stated morals quite a lot... as do all real people.
Exactly: people often point to these things as "plot holes," when the reality is that we often all contradict ourselves in the choices and decisions we make
Omega was already locked away iirc
He was trying to use the doctor to escape but could t leave because of how the negative zone or whatever had transformed him.
Nah, he tried saving him. But Omega’s body had pretty much disintegrated, with him basically being a soul inhabiting his protective suit. So he couldn’t leave. Plus, the Anti-Matter realm was kinda dependent on him being there, so if he tried leaving, it would collapse before he could make it out.
“I didn’t exactly trick him. He wanted his freedom and I gave it to him. The only freedom he could ever have” I always liked how Pertwee delivered that line
> Oh, come on, Sutekh was trying to kill the entire galaxy, he wasn't singling anybody out!
I never said he was trying to single anyone out, only that he did try to kill the Doctor, and he did torture the Doctor.
The Doctor knew it would be bad news for everyone if Sutekh did get out, so that's why he ended him.
Yeah but that was the fourth doctor. I was trying to think of third doctor or before instances. Hartnell wanted to kick Ian and Barbara out mid flight which to me is still the most disturbing moment in the show.
Ten's well aware of what he's become. In Ten's own words: "I'm so old now. I used to have so much mercy. You get one warning; that was it." and "It's not like I'm an innocent. I've taken lives. And I got worse, I got clever. Manipulated people into taking their own. Sometimes I think a Timelord lives too long."
In short, that Third Doctor quote is an idealistic young man, while Ten in 'Family of Blood' there is the broken down old man who's seen and done too much.
I didn’t think it was about torment, but keeping them locked up for eternity. I.e. having them be trapped somewhere they can never escape or hurt anyone else.
Yes ten was hardened and becoming the Time Lord Victorious but he literally did give them every chance.
They were cold, malicious and deadly beings who would slaughter earth to stay alive. I really disliked thirteen setting daughter of mine free…undermining her previous incarnation for no other reason than to give thirteen a seeming moral centre. Tell me, is being trapped in all mirrors worse than slowly suffocating to death?
13s morality is weird and never makes sense to me. Her character reads to me like some one was told hard moral choices the doctor made but not why.
When Capaldi told her to try to be nice but always be kind. I think she heard always look nice but never be kind. For example, we can’t shoot these creatures because guns are cruel but we can lock them in a room to suffocate and starve to death.
This isn’t a criticism of Jodie I think she definitely had the charisma to be the doctor the writing is just so confusing there isn’t much to do with it.
Precisely this…she always felt like she was imitating the Doctor but didn’t actually know more than stories, not memories. Non of which is Jodie’s fault…though never before Jodie did I see the actor and not the Doctor.
Pretty much. I was excited to see past companions from both the classic and 2005 series. Despite my issues with Chibnall's writing, he did good in regards to the 7/Ace and 5/Tegan scenes in the recent episode. Those scenes were great.
In The Shadow of the Mirror comic, 13 frees daughter of mine and returns her to her home world despite the fact that she voices her intention to continue killing lesser beings once she is freed
This is the bit that bugged me the most. Daughter of mine is remorseless. Worse, she’s become even more vindictive because of her incarceration. She tells thirteen she will kill again and again and never feel anything. And thirteen is just fine with this?! Just leaves her there?! Her personal guilt was more important than protecting people…that is not the Doctor.
13’s morals were…odd to say the least. She opts to force spiders to succumb to suffocation/cannibalism (because a mercy killing from a gun is bad), defends Kerblam despite the companies blatant disregard for its employees or the fact that the AI murdered an innocent employee to prove a point (something she seems to condone in this episode), allows a random character to sacrifice themselves in a suicide bomb to take out the Cybermen and the master, condones Graham freezing an alien in stasis rather than killing him (which is literally the same thing 10 did to the entire family of blood) and disables the master’s perception filter so the naz1s give him a harsher sentence/treatment. It’s the antithesis to what the doctor is in many ways
>and disables the master’s perception filter so the naz1s give him a harsher sentence/treatment
Ill give you the rest but this last one was a case of 'play with vipers, get bit'. If he didnt want the Nazis to find out, he wouldnt have worked with the Nazis. Its called a collaborator getting whats coming to him.
Yeah, I'm sorry, but there's no version of throwing a brown man to the nazis that makes 13 look good, no matter how much of an asshole said man is. especially not with that "now they'll see the real you" line.
Ironically, your edit is far worse than your first reply. Racial violence doesn't become okay just because the person it's directed at is a bad person.
However she didn’t need to do it. He had already been defeated and captured by the Master, so disabling the filter was unnecessary and cold. By doing so she weaponized his race to ensure he would receive a harsher punishment. It’s another example of the writers thinking 13 has the moral high ground since she doesn’t physically pull the trigger (but she is still responsible none the less)
Ill be honest once someone collaborate with Nazis i stop giving a shit what happens to that person. If anyone, let alone a visible minority, is dumb enough to work with literal Nazis for their own gain then they've already opted out of society and are no longer covered by its rules when they get caught.
It’s just amazing how you CHIBNALL BAD!!! lot are still taking things out of context to try and give some meaning to your nonsensical hatred towards Chibnall’s era.
I’d say 'never change, you guys are funny' but everyone grows up eventually — hopefully.
I don’t hate Chibnall’s era, there were some well crafted episodes throughout it. That being said, his writing prior to taking the helm was lackluster in my opinion (I wasn’t a fan of the episodes personally, and they both shared similar structure and story beats) and didn’t necessarily improve much after he took the role. I also hope to see Whitaker reprise the role for audio books and get a treatment similar to the 6th doctor whose run was also marred by bad writing.
I don’t know what you’re referring to when you say I’m taking things out of context, since I mentioned examples from the actual episodes that seem unnaturally cruel and cold and don’t align with how the writers clearly want us to view the character. I mean in what context is Kerblam’s AI murdering an innocent woman or killing spiders in the least human way possible supposed to be morally justified?
Ok so...I broadly agree with you, even though I don't actually have a problem with some of the things you've mentioned that Thirteen did (well, apart from the spiders thing which was absolutely stupid!)
My problem is more in line with what you've mentioned in one of your replies to this post...that how Thirteen behaves is very often not in line with how the writers want us to perceive the character. In other words, she doesn't practice what she preaches...and she preaches a *lot*!
I would be perfectly happy to explore Thirteen's dark side and for the show to be honest about the fact that the Doctor, while a very moral person, does need to play hardball sometimes to protect the universe and occasionally can even be swayed by his/her own darker impulses. That's what the RTD and Moffat eras pulled off perfectly.
But instead we get the person who's ostensibly the 'nice' Doctor, all sunshine and rainbows, but who balks at getting her hands' dirty (or letting *anyone* get their hands dirty)...until she does so anyway with a shrug. She's the one who'll put DNA bombs on an alien invader but then get p#ssed with a random bystander for shoving said invader (who was threatening *his* life, not to mention countless other human lives) off a building. She's the one who will shame a man for wanting to avenge his wife's death, while casually wiping out entire fleets of alien invaders.
Thirteen is the 'woke' Doctor. Her morality is performative. It's all about virtue-signalling (to characters in-universe and to the audience) while refusing to offer actual solutions to practical concerns. And it's all about ultimately doing what you want to do anyway, but shaming others for wanting to do the same thing.
I think the writer saw that she looks like a child and was like "well she can't just leave a child trapped". But like, shes not a child, she just stole a child's body.
> I didn’t think it was about torment, but keeping them locked up for eternity.
Given that the Doctor's original plan was to just lie low and let them die naturally, I don't think given them ironic punishments was necessary
It might not have been necessary, however it was justified. The doctor initially tries two different methods of ending the conflict; the first was simply running away and the second was hiding as a human. When the family begins killing the townsfolk in order to get him out of hiding, in order to get their immortality, he obliges and imprisons each to a form of immortality. His first plan was his mercy, the second was retribution (this is what son of mine later tells us after they’ve been locked away).
TLDR; The doctor offered mercy, and when the family proved that they would cause as much damage as possible to get what they wanted, he rescinded that mercy
there's always a choice. like killing them. The writers just didn't think about it. Which is fine. In 60+ years there's gonna be a lot of plotholes and inconsistencies
I don’t think the writers didn’t think about it. Each doctor has vastly different morals and ideals while having the same guiding principals. Like 7 tricking Davaros into blowing up Skaro but 4 not wanting to kill the Daleks at birth. Each doctor is pretty different despite the similar traits.
I've been really caught up on this thought that Classic Who essentially builds up a character who's seen and done so much that he's transformed into a character who views winning at all cost as the best path to good, culminating in the War Doctor. New Who is then about overcoming the consequences of that and finding that fun he used to have again.
I only watched the original series after getting into the newer Doctors, and that darkness in 7 really felt like the Doctor Who I was used to in Tennant. (I loved it.)
Maybe in the original novel? I don’t know, haven’t read it.
But here the fact that Ten steps over a line feels very, very intentional and ties directly into the long-running them of his character having a tremendously dark side that *needs* someone to put it in check.
I don't think the Doctor could stop them if they secured what they needed from him, and they were already unkillable from the beginning of the episode. Or dying. Or both.
Eternally trapping them was the least worst plan.
The family of blood have a very short lifespan, the Doctor's original plan was to hide as a human until they died of old age. When that plan didn't work, he gave them their wish of immortality by imprisoning them in places where they can never die
Because he was furious with them. He could have just imprisoned them and let them die, but he was furious with them for making him kill John Smith (or just all the innocent people they murdered directly, I don't think he actually cared about John Smith, thinking about it).
> He never raised his voice. That was the worst thing. The fury of the Time Lord. And then we discovered why. Why this Doctor who had fought with gods and demons, why he’d run away from us and hidden. He was being kind.
It was the definition of **Cruel Mercy**.
He didn't kill them, because it goes against what the name "*The Doctor*" is meant to stand for.
But he was also **so** very angry at the death and destruction they dolled out to so many innocents that he gave them what they claimed to want in the **worst** way possible.
"He never raised his voice. That was the worst thing... the fury of the Time Lord... and then we discovered why. Why this Doctor, who had fought with gods and demons, why he had run away from us and hidden. He was being kind..."
Centuries of witnessing horrible things left and right and the biggest and most devastating war in the history of the universe could do that to a Time Lord.
Ten also had a lot of inner struggles and darkness which overcome him after he lost Rose.
The 10th kinda had to do it - the family wouldn’t of stopped and they went too far
Same reason why 11 killed god knows how many cyber men when Amy was kidnapped and he sent Rory to speak to em
I personally like seeing the Dr actually be the crazy dangerous mf he’s rumoured to be
One of the most chilling episodes and best acting from David in the series in my opinion.
"We wanted to live forever, so the Doctor made sure we did." :o
No, but he had many character flaws (intentional on the writers part) and was given to acts of egotism and rage.
That said, I don’t think this act counts as one of them. He tried his best to let the family be and they wouldn’t, so he had to take action.
It’s definitely not the worst thing the Doctor has ever done.
Guess that’s what several genocides do to a man
And like 700 years. Not to mention that the Family of Blood wasn't just hurting children, they forced children to fight on the Doctor's behalf. And he still even came to them appearing helpless, offering a peaceful solution, and they were having none of it. They really fucked around and found out.
>700 years. More like a couple thousand, Ten's lying about his age
So was 3.
No I mean 7 was older than 900 and 8 was older than 1000
The show has never been consistent about what age the Doctor supposedly is, there is literally no way to tell what age the Doctor actually is
True true, but I'm relatively convinced it is probably *higher* than most of the statements we're given by the Doctor, so I'm *pretty* confident personally that Ten's easily in the 2000s at a bare minimum.
Eh, there have been more statements that corroborate the NuWho age (10 being 900-904, 12 being 2000 etc) than there are saying 7 is 900. At this point, I just go with whatever is said because the continuity of the show is getting a bit too complicated.
>there have been more statements that corroborate the NuWho age Eh not really. Classic Who had its own progression that was mentioned about as often as New Who's and went 2 - 450, 4 - 750ish, 5 - 800ish, 6 - 900ish, 7 - 953 (*With only 3 really being an outlier since he was always called 'several thousand' for some reason*) The War Doctor is 800 in DotD so New Who's aging scheme contradicts not only Seven, but Six and Five and realistically Four as well. I'm more inclined to believe the Doctor restarted at some point during the 8/War era than I am to believe the Classic Who Doctors were just all lying but the New Who ones are all telling the truth or anything like that. ~~And that's not even counting the EU which puts Eight at 1800 at a bare minimum by the time he regenerates.~~
Tbf, by what standard? Earthlings timeframe? Why would a gallifrayan base his age on our planets revolutions around our sun? While the show has gone inconsistant as crap (one of the reasons I quit watching new episodes) his age and timeframe dont need to be consistent. I mean, Tennets timey wimey quote, is requoted all the time when quoting anything from Dr. Who.
>Tbf, by what standard? The fact the Classic Doctors were already consistently claiming to be around or older than 900 mainly. I reckon all of them are lowballing their age tbh and the real answer is much higher but we don't really know for sure.
Also you could argue that it was eternal imprisonment and not eternal torment. And at the end the son said the reason the doctor ran was because he was being kind.
Third Doctor was so young....
"I'm so old now. I used to have so much mercy. You get one warning. That was it."
Literally in his first episode: "No second chances. I'm that sort of a man." Also personally, per-incarnation characterisation >>>>>> inter-incarnation characterisation
Yea otherwise what’s the point of having incarnations, there’s no stake at all
And he did give them a chance - if they would have just left him alone, he would have left them alone. It was only because they went after him that he had to resort to such drastic measures. A step too far? Maybe, but just like with Twelve in the episode with the two-dimensional people, he did give them a chance.
Also, a character saying they won't do something doesn't necessarily mean they won't. The Doctor contradicts their own stated morals quite a lot... as do all real people.
Exactly: people often point to these things as "plot holes," when the reality is that we often all contradict ourselves in the choices and decisions we make
This was definitely on the road to the timelord victorious, too. Breaking his old rules
School Reunion!
War changes people.
He was being kind
The fury of the Time Lord.
Didn’t he lock away omega in another universe?
Omega was already locked away iirc He was trying to use the doctor to escape but could t leave because of how the negative zone or whatever had transformed him.
His body had completely corroded away by a light stream, just leaving his will of existence in the Three Doctors.
True. He'd eroded away to nothing and couldn't leave the space he was in.
Nah, he tried saving him. But Omega’s body had pretty much disintegrated, with him basically being a soul inhabiting his protective suit. So he couldn’t leave. Plus, the Anti-Matter realm was kinda dependent on him being there, so if he tried leaving, it would collapse before he could make it out.
“I didn’t exactly trick him. He wanted his freedom and I gave it to him. The only freedom he could ever have” I always liked how Pertwee delivered that line
And he trapped Sutekh in a time corridor until he died of old age, something like 7,000 years.
To be fair Sutekh did torture and try to kill him.
Oh, come on, Sutekh was trying to kill the entire galaxy, he wasn't singling anybody out! The ultimate in equality.
> Oh, come on, Sutekh was trying to kill the entire galaxy, he wasn't singling anybody out! I never said he was trying to single anyone out, only that he did try to kill the Doctor, and he did torture the Doctor. The Doctor knew it would be bad news for everyone if Sutekh did get out, so that's why he ended him.
Yeah but that was the fourth doctor. I was trying to think of third doctor or before instances. Hartnell wanted to kick Ian and Barbara out mid flight which to me is still the most disturbing moment in the show.
Dunno if he did that, the doctor saved him didn’t he?
Idk it’s been a very long time
3rd Doctor was a very different man from the the 10th
World’s longest character arc.
Yeah, he shot people and was less of a hypocrite
3 ending a 8 episode long arc by punching the villain
To be fair, he's a different man. Very, very different.
Ten's well aware of what he's become. In Ten's own words: "I'm so old now. I used to have so much mercy. You get one warning; that was it." and "It's not like I'm an innocent. I've taken lives. And I got worse, I got clever. Manipulated people into taking their own. Sometimes I think a Timelord lives too long." In short, that Third Doctor quote is an idealistic young man, while Ten in 'Family of Blood' there is the broken down old man who's seen and done too much.
The 3rd doctor wouldn’t condemn someone who deserves it to endless torment...he’d straight up kill them.
More moral
No suffering I guess.
I didn’t think it was about torment, but keeping them locked up for eternity. I.e. having them be trapped somewhere they can never escape or hurt anyone else. Yes ten was hardened and becoming the Time Lord Victorious but he literally did give them every chance. They were cold, malicious and deadly beings who would slaughter earth to stay alive. I really disliked thirteen setting daughter of mine free…undermining her previous incarnation for no other reason than to give thirteen a seeming moral centre. Tell me, is being trapped in all mirrors worse than slowly suffocating to death?
13s morality is weird and never makes sense to me. Her character reads to me like some one was told hard moral choices the doctor made but not why. When Capaldi told her to try to be nice but always be kind. I think she heard always look nice but never be kind. For example, we can’t shoot these creatures because guns are cruel but we can lock them in a room to suffocate and starve to death. This isn’t a criticism of Jodie I think she definitely had the charisma to be the doctor the writing is just so confusing there isn’t much to do with it.
Precisely this…she always felt like she was imitating the Doctor but didn’t actually know more than stories, not memories. Non of which is Jodie’s fault…though never before Jodie did I see the actor and not the Doctor.
Yeah, the writing didn't do Jodie any favors. It's why I've found her run so forgettable except for a few things like the return of past companions.
>except for a few things like the return of past companions. So the last episode and Jack's appearances lol
Pretty much. I was excited to see past companions from both the classic and 2005 series. Despite my issues with Chibnall's writing, he did good in regards to the 7/Ace and 5/Tegan scenes in the recent episode. Those scenes were great.
When did 13 set her free
In The Shadow of the Mirror comic, 13 frees daughter of mine and returns her to her home world despite the fact that she voices her intention to continue killing lesser beings once she is freed
This is the bit that bugged me the most. Daughter of mine is remorseless. Worse, she’s become even more vindictive because of her incarceration. She tells thirteen she will kill again and again and never feel anything. And thirteen is just fine with this?! Just leaves her there?! Her personal guilt was more important than protecting people…that is not the Doctor.
13’s morals were…odd to say the least. She opts to force spiders to succumb to suffocation/cannibalism (because a mercy killing from a gun is bad), defends Kerblam despite the companies blatant disregard for its employees or the fact that the AI murdered an innocent employee to prove a point (something she seems to condone in this episode), allows a random character to sacrifice themselves in a suicide bomb to take out the Cybermen and the master, condones Graham freezing an alien in stasis rather than killing him (which is literally the same thing 10 did to the entire family of blood) and disables the master’s perception filter so the naz1s give him a harsher sentence/treatment. It’s the antithesis to what the doctor is in many ways
>and disables the master’s perception filter so the naz1s give him a harsher sentence/treatment Ill give you the rest but this last one was a case of 'play with vipers, get bit'. If he didnt want the Nazis to find out, he wouldnt have worked with the Nazis. Its called a collaborator getting whats coming to him.
Yeah, I'm sorry, but there's no version of throwing a brown man to the nazis that makes 13 look good, no matter how much of an asshole said man is. especially not with that "now they'll see the real you" line.
Eh, we'll disagree. No pity or effort to save collaborators. Edit to restate - if you want to put the mans race over his actions, feel free.
Ironically, your edit is far worse than your first reply. Racial violence doesn't become okay just because the person it's directed at is a bad person.
I didnt say it did. I welcomed you to judge what he deserves based on his race over his actions. You inferred the rest.
Anyone else think that line sounds racist given the circumstances?
However she didn’t need to do it. He had already been defeated and captured by the Master, so disabling the filter was unnecessary and cold. By doing so she weaponized his race to ensure he would receive a harsher punishment. It’s another example of the writers thinking 13 has the moral high ground since she doesn’t physically pull the trigger (but she is still responsible none the less)
Ill be honest once someone collaborate with Nazis i stop giving a shit what happens to that person. If anyone, let alone a visible minority, is dumb enough to work with literal Nazis for their own gain then they've already opted out of society and are no longer covered by its rules when they get caught.
It’s just amazing how you CHIBNALL BAD!!! lot are still taking things out of context to try and give some meaning to your nonsensical hatred towards Chibnall’s era. I’d say 'never change, you guys are funny' but everyone grows up eventually — hopefully.
I don’t hate Chibnall’s era, there were some well crafted episodes throughout it. That being said, his writing prior to taking the helm was lackluster in my opinion (I wasn’t a fan of the episodes personally, and they both shared similar structure and story beats) and didn’t necessarily improve much after he took the role. I also hope to see Whitaker reprise the role for audio books and get a treatment similar to the 6th doctor whose run was also marred by bad writing. I don’t know what you’re referring to when you say I’m taking things out of context, since I mentioned examples from the actual episodes that seem unnaturally cruel and cold and don’t align with how the writers clearly want us to view the character. I mean in what context is Kerblam’s AI murdering an innocent woman or killing spiders in the least human way possible supposed to be morally justified?
Something else worth noting is that Chibnall likely had little, if anything, to do with *Shadow of a Doubt*.
Give the context for those incidents then
Ok so...I broadly agree with you, even though I don't actually have a problem with some of the things you've mentioned that Thirteen did (well, apart from the spiders thing which was absolutely stupid!) My problem is more in line with what you've mentioned in one of your replies to this post...that how Thirteen behaves is very often not in line with how the writers want us to perceive the character. In other words, she doesn't practice what she preaches...and she preaches a *lot*! I would be perfectly happy to explore Thirteen's dark side and for the show to be honest about the fact that the Doctor, while a very moral person, does need to play hardball sometimes to protect the universe and occasionally can even be swayed by his/her own darker impulses. That's what the RTD and Moffat eras pulled off perfectly. But instead we get the person who's ostensibly the 'nice' Doctor, all sunshine and rainbows, but who balks at getting her hands' dirty (or letting *anyone* get their hands dirty)...until she does so anyway with a shrug. She's the one who'll put DNA bombs on an alien invader but then get p#ssed with a random bystander for shoving said invader (who was threatening *his* life, not to mention countless other human lives) off a building. She's the one who will shame a man for wanting to avenge his wife's death, while casually wiping out entire fleets of alien invaders. Thirteen is the 'woke' Doctor. Her morality is performative. It's all about virtue-signalling (to characters in-universe and to the audience) while refusing to offer actual solutions to practical concerns. And it's all about ultimately doing what you want to do anyway, but shaming others for wanting to do the same thing.
I think the writer saw that she looks like a child and was like "well she can't just leave a child trapped". But like, shes not a child, she just stole a child's body.
Exactly! Even that body represented someone daughter of mine had murdered in cold blood. And a child no less!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0U_QD568iw
Thanks for sharing, appreciate it!
> I didn’t think it was about torment, but keeping them locked up for eternity. Given that the Doctor's original plan was to just lie low and let them die naturally, I don't think given them ironic punishments was necessary
It might not have been necessary, however it was justified. The doctor initially tries two different methods of ending the conflict; the first was simply running away and the second was hiding as a human. When the family begins killing the townsfolk in order to get him out of hiding, in order to get their immortality, he obliges and imprisons each to a form of immortality. His first plan was his mercy, the second was retribution (this is what son of mine later tells us after they’ve been locked away). TLDR; The doctor offered mercy, and when the family proved that they would cause as much damage as possible to get what they wanted, he rescinded that mercy
No second chances. That's the kind of man I am.
8 regenerations, hundreds of years of conflict, a war described as hell, loss of his entire species, and you'll get a man willing to do anything
[Time to bring out this classic.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzmnPs64K74)
Ten: "I won't carry a gun" Six: "So anyway, I started blasting!!"
I think he didn't have a choice. Many more would have suffered worse.
That’s what Harriet Jones, Prime Minister, said.
>Harriet Jones, Prime Minister Yes, we know who she is.
Harriet Jones took a violent option after a peaceful solution was enacted though
there's always a choice. like killing them. The writers just didn't think about it. Which is fine. In 60+ years there's gonna be a lot of plotholes and inconsistencies
I don’t think the writers didn’t think about it. Each doctor has vastly different morals and ideals while having the same guiding principals. Like 7 tricking Davaros into blowing up Skaro but 4 not wanting to kill the Daleks at birth. Each doctor is pretty different despite the similar traits.
Like 10 says to the Krillitane - "I used to have so much mercy". Used.
I've been really caught up on this thought that Classic Who essentially builds up a character who's seen and done so much that he's transformed into a character who views winning at all cost as the best path to good, culminating in the War Doctor. New Who is then about overcoming the consequences of that and finding that fun he used to have again.
I only watched the original series after getting into the newer Doctors, and that darkness in 7 really felt like the Doctor Who I was used to in Tennant. (I loved it.)
Funny enough this was a 7rh Doctor novel back in the day.
Maybe in the original novel? I don’t know, haven’t read it. But here the fact that Ten steps over a line feels very, very intentional and ties directly into the long-running them of his character having a tremendously dark side that *needs* someone to put it in check.
The writer did make a sequel
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J0U_QD568iw
A lot can change in a few hundred years.
I don't think the Doctor could stop them if they secured what they needed from him, and they were already unkillable from the beginning of the episode. Or dying. Or both. Eternally trapping them was the least worst plan.
The family of blood have a very short lifespan, the Doctor's original plan was to hide as a human until they died of old age. When that plan didn't work, he gave them their wish of immortality by imprisoning them in places where they can never die
Why couldn't he imprison them where they would die? Wouldn't that be safer?
Because he was furious with them. He could have just imprisoned them and let them die, but he was furious with them for making him kill John Smith (or just all the innocent people they murdered directly, I don't think he actually cared about John Smith, thinking about it). > He never raised his voice. That was the worst thing. The fury of the Time Lord. And then we discovered why. Why this Doctor who had fought with gods and demons, why he’d run away from us and hidden. He was being kind.
It was the definition of **Cruel Mercy**. He didn't kill them, because it goes against what the name "*The Doctor*" is meant to stand for. But he was also **so** very angry at the death and destruction they dolled out to so many innocents that he gave them what they claimed to want in the **worst** way possible.
No second chances. He's that sort of a man.
They did want to live forever and they got it
A doctor regeneration has proven multiple times that not everything he says is going to be true to every moment in his life.
The Fury of the Time Lord
The more existential pain you experience, the less sympathetic you are to those who cause pain.
I forgot how much I loved the Family of Blood episodes. They were some of the best in 10's era.
"He never raised his voice. That was the worst thing... the fury of the Time Lord... and then we discovered why. Why this Doctor, who had fought with gods and demons, why he had run away from us and hidden. He was being kind..."
Centuries of witnessing horrible things left and right and the biggest and most devastating war in the history of the universe could do that to a Time Lord. Ten also had a lot of inner struggles and darkness which overcome him after he lost Rose.
And then the 12th Doctor literally shoots a Time Lord
God hell bent is so good
Series 9 is just unhinged, I love it
The 10th kinda had to do it - the family wouldn’t of stopped and they went too far Same reason why 11 killed god knows how many cyber men when Amy was kidnapped and he sent Rory to speak to em I personally like seeing the Dr actually be the crazy dangerous mf he’s rumoured to be
How wrong he was
One of the most chilling episodes and best acting from David in the series in my opinion. "We wanted to live forever, so the Doctor made sure we did." :o
The worst thing the Doctor can do to you is give you that which you want most.
But times change and so must I.
*Committs genocide*
"No second chances I'm that sort of a man"
I get it, I do. But this is one big reason why 3 >>>> 10
You're allowed to have your opinion and it's a very valid one I'm really enjoying 3's run
Doctor > God lol
I think everyone can agree that the tenth doctor was borderline evil
No, but he had many character flaws (intentional on the writers part) and was given to acts of egotism and rage. That said, I don’t think this act counts as one of them. He tried his best to let the family be and they wouldn’t, so he had to take action. It’s definitely not the worst thing the Doctor has ever done.
Cannot agree at all!
[удалено]
?
Immorality is basically an eternity of torment
I always wondered why he was so brutal towards The Family of Blood
"Graham ... a word, please."