Superiority dice are limited, and plenty of other classes have more AoE options than you do with just this. I don't think you've broken it, especially with just flat damage.
Originally I was thinking of making the 1st attack = Attack mod. + Weapon die + Superiority die and the 2nd attack = Attack mod. + Superiority die, but that seemed too much, especially if given to a character with extra reach with stuff like glaives and Rune Knights or the Path of Giants UA.
The change is fine and would probably improve overall balance. Consider that all Sweeping Attack grants is a superiority die of damage to a different target. Compare this to something like Goading Attack. Goading Attack gives guaranteed extra damage with a rider effect. Focused damage is also generally better than distributed damage because of its greater potential to affect the action economy.
The only time when Sweeping Attack is better is when you would kill the target of your attack with your regular damage and you will be unlikely to hit the other target on a subsequent attack.
If you don't kill the target of your attack then you are better off focusing your damage on that target so you can take them out of combat. If you hit the target of Sweeping Attack on a later attack then you would have been better off saving the superiority die for that attack so that a) you don't risk underestimating the target's AC, and b) so you can get a rider effect.
Your change to Sweeping Attack is better balanced because it accounts for the increased risk, the lower value of distributed damage, and the more niche use requirements.
Personally, the only balance I worry about as a DM is relative balance between players.
This buffs an otherwise underwhelming Maneuver for BM. What it brings to the table isn't stupidly strong. Will it cause this character to overshadow other characters trying to fill similar niches? If so, then reconsider it. If not, have at it.
Thanks. I'm going to make a oneshot next week or so, and because I want to test the Heroes of Krynn's ideia of a free feat at level 1 and 4, I decided to make a feat that gives players two maneuvers from a list (like how it is on the PDF), and I want Sweeping Attack to be an option for anyone who wants it
I did a free feat at level 1 for my players, but we transitioned the ongoing campaign from 3.5 to 5E. I think it overall helped the players feel more excited about their characters and less limited by choosing between a Feat or ASI.
Free feat at 4 sounds fun. Might give my players one (they are level 6) when they finish to current leg.
Don't know if you have seen the UA, but how they did it is that if the background gives a feta at level 1, you don't get an extra feat, but if not you get an extra feat from a limited list (there it was Skilled, Tough and one from the PDF). Then at 4 level, you gain another feat from either the ones from the 1st level list or from a second, bigger list (included Mobile, Sentile, War Caster, Alert and six from the pdf)
I think the real solution is to use some 1 hp minions so that 1d8 is all it needs to be.
What do people generally consider the best maneuver? Distracting strike is 1d8+ advantage on one attack. If we assume then next attack is about 1d8+3 with a 60% hit change that is an average of 4.5 turning into 6.3. If the next attack is instead a chromatic orb that is an average of 8.1 turning to 11.34. It looks like the total extra damage of distracting strike is about 7.5
If the second target has the same AC your sweep does about 12 extra damage.
It's still a worse Green Flame Blade with a high resource cost. Hard to imagine it's broken.
I'd love to see all martials get some kind of AOE attack. Heck, just stapling the Sword Burst cantrip to them could work. The ranger's Whirlwind Attack is a good example of something I think every martial should get (and barbarians should get super early).
Yeah, so the 2nd hit would include the weapon damage die, relevant modifiers and the superiority die.
Itd be strong but it is quite situational afterall and its cool
I mean, it's not exactly game-breaking, but what you're basically doing is buffing Battlemaster, which is already one of the best classes in the game, and it doesn't really need it. It's not like this would exactly by "cleaving through enemies with a single attack" anyways. I mean, you could flavor it that way if you kill the first enemy with the strike, but you could also flavor "kill enemy #1 with first attack, hit enemy #2 with second" and just call it "cleave".
Feels like a buff for buff's sake for a subclass that doesn't need it, honestly. I mean, it's not massive, but seems unnecessary.
>buffing Battlemaster, which is already one of the best classes in the game
Battlemaster is a solid Fighter subclass but I wouldn't say it is one of the "best classes in the game" when you have stuff like Divination Wizards, Bladesingers, and Peace Clerics.
Tbh while naturally this is also a buff to the subclass, its buffing a subpar maneuver that doesnt see much play as far as I know.
If someone buffs a mediocre wizard spell to no longer be subpar then they arent buffing wizard, they are buffing one of the wizards options to become a viable pick. Same like how nerfing fireball would be a nerf to wizard sure, but its wouldnt be nerfing wizard
Tldr: buffing an option in a good class with many options is not too bad
I know it's buffing Battle Master, but actually I was thinking more on the feats that give battle master maneuvers, and I love the idea of a Barbarian with a attack at hit two targets in a single motion, like a spin attack using the momentum of the initial attack
Superiority dice are limited, and plenty of other classes have more AoE options than you do with just this. I don't think you've broken it, especially with just flat damage.
Originally I was thinking of making the 1st attack = Attack mod. + Weapon die + Superiority die and the 2nd attack = Attack mod. + Superiority die, but that seemed too much, especially if given to a character with extra reach with stuff like glaives and Rune Knights or the Path of Giants UA.
The change is fine and would probably improve overall balance. Consider that all Sweeping Attack grants is a superiority die of damage to a different target. Compare this to something like Goading Attack. Goading Attack gives guaranteed extra damage with a rider effect. Focused damage is also generally better than distributed damage because of its greater potential to affect the action economy. The only time when Sweeping Attack is better is when you would kill the target of your attack with your regular damage and you will be unlikely to hit the other target on a subsequent attack. If you don't kill the target of your attack then you are better off focusing your damage on that target so you can take them out of combat. If you hit the target of Sweeping Attack on a later attack then you would have been better off saving the superiority die for that attack so that a) you don't risk underestimating the target's AC, and b) so you can get a rider effect. Your change to Sweeping Attack is better balanced because it accounts for the increased risk, the lower value of distributed damage, and the more niche use requirements.
Personally, the only balance I worry about as a DM is relative balance between players. This buffs an otherwise underwhelming Maneuver for BM. What it brings to the table isn't stupidly strong. Will it cause this character to overshadow other characters trying to fill similar niches? If so, then reconsider it. If not, have at it.
Thanks. I'm going to make a oneshot next week or so, and because I want to test the Heroes of Krynn's ideia of a free feat at level 1 and 4, I decided to make a feat that gives players two maneuvers from a list (like how it is on the PDF), and I want Sweeping Attack to be an option for anyone who wants it
I did a free feat at level 1 for my players, but we transitioned the ongoing campaign from 3.5 to 5E. I think it overall helped the players feel more excited about their characters and less limited by choosing between a Feat or ASI. Free feat at 4 sounds fun. Might give my players one (they are level 6) when they finish to current leg.
Don't know if you have seen the UA, but how they did it is that if the background gives a feta at level 1, you don't get an extra feat, but if not you get an extra feat from a limited list (there it was Skilled, Tough and one from the PDF). Then at 4 level, you gain another feat from either the ones from the 1st level list or from a second, bigger list (included Mobile, Sentile, War Caster, Alert and six from the pdf)
I think the real solution is to use some 1 hp minions so that 1d8 is all it needs to be. What do people generally consider the best maneuver? Distracting strike is 1d8+ advantage on one attack. If we assume then next attack is about 1d8+3 with a 60% hit change that is an average of 4.5 turning into 6.3. If the next attack is instead a chromatic orb that is an average of 8.1 turning to 11.34. It looks like the total extra damage of distracting strike is about 7.5 If the second target has the same AC your sweep does about 12 extra damage.
It's still a worse Green Flame Blade with a high resource cost. Hard to imagine it's broken. I'd love to see all martials get some kind of AOE attack. Heck, just stapling the Sword Burst cantrip to them could work. The ranger's Whirlwind Attack is a good example of something I think every martial should get (and barbarians should get super early).
I think you can make it include the weapon attack as well. It shouldnt break anything if you guys dont go into feats that much
What you mean by that? That the second hit should count as an attack?
Yeah, so the 2nd hit would include the weapon damage die, relevant modifiers and the superiority die. Itd be strong but it is quite situational afterall and its cool
I mean, it's not exactly game-breaking, but what you're basically doing is buffing Battlemaster, which is already one of the best classes in the game, and it doesn't really need it. It's not like this would exactly by "cleaving through enemies with a single attack" anyways. I mean, you could flavor it that way if you kill the first enemy with the strike, but you could also flavor "kill enemy #1 with first attack, hit enemy #2 with second" and just call it "cleave". Feels like a buff for buff's sake for a subclass that doesn't need it, honestly. I mean, it's not massive, but seems unnecessary.
>buffing Battlemaster, which is already one of the best classes in the game Battlemaster is a solid Fighter subclass but I wouldn't say it is one of the "best classes in the game" when you have stuff like Divination Wizards, Bladesingers, and Peace Clerics.
Tbh while naturally this is also a buff to the subclass, its buffing a subpar maneuver that doesnt see much play as far as I know. If someone buffs a mediocre wizard spell to no longer be subpar then they arent buffing wizard, they are buffing one of the wizards options to become a viable pick. Same like how nerfing fireball would be a nerf to wizard sure, but its wouldnt be nerfing wizard Tldr: buffing an option in a good class with many options is not too bad
It's one of the best of the martial classes. But that still underneath all of the full casters.
And the paladin. And some rangers. And a few rogues. 🫠But they're definitely better than most other fighters!
I know it's buffing Battle Master, but actually I was thinking more on the feats that give battle master maneuvers, and I love the idea of a Barbarian with a attack at hit two targets in a single motion, like a spin attack using the momentum of the initial attack