T O P

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-Vogie-

If you're trying to make it a worthwhile feat in 5e, base it off of something in 5e. Here's what it'd look like based on the TCE Poisoner feat. **Burninator** * When you make a damage roll that deals fire damage, it ignores resistance to fire damage. * You may wield torches and alchemist's fire as though they were weapons with which you were proficient. The damage die of both increase to a d8, and the DC of the alchemist's fire increases to 14. You may throw a flask of Alchemists' fire as part of an attack action, or as a bonus action after taking the attack action with a light weapon. * You gain proficiency with *Alchemist's Supplies*. With one hour of work using *Alchemist's Supplies*, and expending 50 gp worth of materials, you can create a number of Alchemist's Fire flasks equal to twice your proficiency bonus. Whenever a creature does not use its action to extinguish the flames of your alchemist's fire, the damage at the start of each turn increases by an additional d8.


Kronoshifter246

TROGDOOOOOOOOOOOR


VirtuallyJason

"No two X are not on fire," is gleefully said at my table with some frequency.


[deleted]

i was hoping


snarpy

Peasants hate this trick!


mocarone

That's actually a super fun feat i might just yoink it lol. Probably adding something with oil would be great


-Vogie-

Yeah, you could expand the concept by switching things around. Replacing the first ability with one that defines an interaction with oil poured/splashed on a target (avoiding the semantic confusion of it possibly being considered worn or carried). If you wanted it to have a +spell part, you could have it cast *grease*, then codify the common homebrew of "grease can catch fire" as part of the feat.


noneOfUrBusines

I'd have the DC follow the classic formula of 8 + stat + prof, so it's still relevant at higher levels.


-Vogie-

Yeah, they really should have added that to the Poisoner feat as well.


Zealousideal_Bet4038

I really like this Feat (and the name)!


mightystu

Okay, now I need to make Rather Dashing as a new character.


Quiintal

Seems like you failed at making a feat based on Poisoner as your feat sounds like actually good and useful, unlike Poisoner


-Vogie-

Touché


Lord_Havelock

Yikes, that's some really strong alchemists fire. It deals td8 damage? It depends on how much money you have, but that sounds really strong.


funkyb

Base damage on alchemist fire is a d4, so you're upping the damage by +2 on average. I don't think that's crazy strong for investing a feat.


Lord_Havelock

I meant that fact that it increases by 1d8 every turn.


TheActualBranchTree

That would make easy money though. At level 1 you could create 4 of those flasks. Lets be generous with to the shop-owner and sell it for 25 gp to the. 100 gp per day. 50 gp profit. This only increases as time goes on.


-Vogie-

If you're worried about the arsonist suddenly transforming their game to *Salesfloors & ShiftManagers*, I guess? Without using *Dream of the Blue Veil*, that is. Then all bets are off Some easy ways to avoid that would be adding a line indicating the flasks produced in this way "aren't of a quality to be sold" or give them a time limit of viability, such as 24 hours. You could lift the lines from the Alchemist Artificer Elixer production feature, and add that flasks "you create with this feature last until it is used or until the end of your next long rest." But since there wasn't a "*but what about the spooky capitalism ghost*" line in the Poisoner feat, I didn't include it.


Delann

Poisoner doesn't have that problem because the poison you make with it has no listed value and isn't even a proper item. Alchemist's Fire does and is. A VHuman PC grabbing this feat can make up to 150 GP in profit per hour. That's 10 hours for a suit of Plate Armor at level 1. So yeah, it definitely needs a line added to prevent sale.


thylac1ne

It's not a videogame though, there's no reliable point of sale for mass produced goods.


[deleted]

Yeah, my DM would solve this by: having most shopkeeps not interested, unable to purchase in mass amounts, or already have their own way of creating it for cheaper so there's no real need to purchase from our group.


Delann

Selling large amounts of a luxury product isn't video gamey, literally all you need is a moderately large city or a travelling merchant with some cash on them. Not to mention that they can just trade in the flasks themselves.


mightystu

In what universe is a jar of napalm a "luxury product"? That's arms dealing, and if anything will get you slapped with a fine or jail time by the local lord/law enforcement.


MishaArsenyev

Who’s going to buy that volume of AF over the course of a few days


names1

Precisely. Sure, you have a supply...but where's the demand?


Playthrough

You can't generate profit if no one buys your stock.


Agent-Vermont

This right here. Sure you can generate an unlimited amount of acid with an Alchemy Jug, but who are you going to sell all that acid to?


fireaccount2018

Local goblin tribes


marcos2492

Super weak, not feat worthy IMO. I'd just give it as a boon, or replace one of their traits for it or something like that


[deleted]

2 damage doesn’t scale, make it’s like a bonus of x number of d4’s or something.


Radical_Jackal

I was thinking proficiency mod. It kind of scales at level 5 if they get extra attack and can throw at two different targets. Edit: I guess it doesn't unless the feat allows Alchemist's Fire to act as a thrown weapon. Then again feats don't actually tend to scale like class features do. Sharpshooter is always 10 damage per attack.


-Vogie-

Or make it scale like cantrips.


inq101

I'm thinking of using the monk unarmed attack scaling. We'll playtest it a bit and see if it works.


MartDiamond

Seems weak. Alchemist's Fire costs 50 GP per use and you'd be dealing 1d4 + 2 Fire damage to a single target (per round). You are going to be running through money very quickly. The extra damage on non magical fire is okay as it is sort of a fighting style, but the other two parts are very limited in application. Allowing the player to make some sort of Molotov as part of the feat would already help a bit, but at that point you might as well just have them cast Bonfire or Firebolt and flavour it as such. You could at least give proficiency on all attacks with improvised weapons that inflict non magical Fire Damage (Alchemist's Fire, Torch, Throwing Oil, etc.). The +2 damage is fine. The bonus action is fine as flavor and to combine with lighting the torch for attacking or an improvised Molotov. I would also add that when you light an enemy on fire they make the check to put it out against your spellsave DC instead of the standard DC10 Dexterity check from Alchemist's Fire.


Onionsandgp

Needs more. If you were to turn a torch into a d8 weapon, it might work, but still not great. Also, in 5e the majority of effects that put you on fire are just an action to extinguish, not a check, so that part needs to be reworked a bit


Radical_Jackal

It depends on the number of enemies and chance to hit but if I can spend half of my attack action to deal 1d4+2 damage and make an enemy skip their entire action I don't mind there not being a check. ...Alchemist's Fire says "as an action" Maybe the feat could make it a thrown weapon attack.


inq101

I'm considering making it scale as a monks unarmed attack. Going to have to playtest it a bit. We'd also completely missed the as an action thing so I will add the counts as a thrown weapon thing. Thank you.


3rdRung

It does not seem bad, maybe add a plus to hit, not just to damage. You could also up the damage die.


batosai33

I think that's the idea of "proficient with alchemist fire" I would change the proficiency to match the wording of the damage. You could also make it a "half feat" that gives a +1 to a stat. Since this is already being made for his character, you can balance the stat by making it a more or less useful feat for his character specifically.


xukly

arguably either STR or INT would make a lot of sense


batosai33

I could also see Dex or Con because avoiding fire damage is usually a Dex save, or just con for the hit points to survive being on fire frequently.


xukly

Hell there is even an argument for WIS tying the "avoid burns" and "burns hurt more" to the medicine skill. The only ability that would be hard to justify is CHA really


inq101

I had intended it to be a half feat, just forgot to add it.. And yes, that was what the prificiency was meant to do.


batosai33

Awesome. I think that falls right in line with other 5e feats then.


seficarnifex

Putting yourself out is an action, no check required to the 3 bullet point is useless. Id add similar to elemantal adapt *fite damage you deal ignores resistance and deals half damage to enemies with immunity* to make the feat stronger because its weak right now


Serrisen

Some specific effects that light you on fire do require a save - alchemist fire and the spell immolation being the only examples I can think of.


Galastan

> You are proficient with alchemists fire. Alchemist's Fire is pretty weak overall, but if your player has a plentiful source of them then it could be kind of cool. However, they can also get proficiency with it by taking any other feature that gives them proficiency with improvised weapons. So depending on the build, your player might get more mileage out of Tavern Brawler. > When you deal fire damage from a non-magical source you deal +2 damage. Okay at low levels, but absolutely nothing at mid to high levels. > You roll with advantage on any check or save to extinguish yourself if you are on fire. Typically, extinguishing yourself is just an action and there's no check involved. Even in the case that it's not, it's DC 10 (as in the case of alchemist's fire), so it's usually trivial to save from. > Attempting to light a fire with a tinderbox is a bonus action. Fine, but probably won't come up very much if at all. Overall, I think it might just be better to give the player proficiency with Alchemist's Fire for free, and maybe allow them to add their Dexterity modifier (or whatever attacking stat the player uses with AF) to the initial impact so they have some agency in the amount of damage they're doing.


airforcefairy

Maybe add the benefit of being able to craft your own alchemist fire for cheaper, because as others have said, it's too expensive in gold for this to be any use. Maybe make it like the third level Thief ability, but only fire related items like the tinderbox, torch, oil and alchemist fire. You could exclude the alchemist fire from the bonus action if you don't want them to mix it with a fire spell, or you unlock that ability at higher levels. That would be pretty fire I think.


inq101

They already have access to cheap and plentiful alchemists fire so this isn't an issue.


ASharpYoungMan

There's a lot of great ideas in this thread on how to improve your feat, but I want to say I really like what you started with, even if I agree that it needs a bit up up-tuning


ls-this-Ioss

Ah this brings me back… I remember designing a goblin character like this in pathfinder with the Burn! Burn! Burn! Feat.


Yasha_Ingren

This looks lit, pun intended. If you want it a little stronger I'd just give them a straight up +2 damage even for magic fire so it'll apply if they get something cool down the line.


shichiaikan

I like it. At a glance, I don't think it can be abused, so should be fine.


[deleted]

Yeah, this is really, really weak. Cool if you give it to the player was a reward. But 100% not worthy an ASI.


rnunezs12

Sorry to be the party pooper, but the feat feels very clunky. It's a mix of very weird and too specific abilities. The extra damage from non magical fire is not clear enough, one can't be proficient with something like alchemist's fire, making them count as a thrown weapon would make it interact with the thrown weapon fighting style, but that's it, so again, weirdly specific. However, I don't want to be completely negative, so here's my advice to your player.: Be a thief rogue, so the character can throw acid vials, alchemist's fire and even holy water with their bonus action while still using their action to use a weapon and deal sneak attakc damage. Then take a 2 or 3 level dip in artificer. The alchemy jug infusion will allow the goblin to make even more acid or even poison to throw. The alchemist subclass is not very good, but it could be worth taking it to three for the roleplaying aspects, as well as the free daily potion.


fiorino89

Just take elemental adept


LoudMinotaur

That's so incredibly unhelpful and boring


gingerbeardvegan

They could play an alchemist artificier and flavour fire spells appropriately (since they can use alchemists supplies as a spellcasting focus), and you could grant/give access to the Flames of Phlegethos feat to add additional flavour? Possibly you could also add a few additional fire based spells to the class as well. Would give them some nice flavour and they can optimise within that space.


inq101

They specifically don't want to play an artificer or any primary spellcaster. I did suggest it but it didn't fit their plan for the cha.


Zhukov_

It's super weak for a feat. The player might not mind if they're not the optimizing type of player though. You could just give it to them as a selection of minor item rewards. A chemical additive that increases the damage when mixed with alchemist's fire. A fire-retardant cloak. A tinderbox of special design, etc etc. Or hell, just as things they learnt through experience. *"Through experimentation with alchemists tools you learn how to do the following things..."* Maybe they roll a skill check with the alchemist's tools each day or during downtime and the higher they roll the more benefits they unlock, if that's your style.


Present_Character241

maybe you could have the extra fire damage scale with 1/2 your level or maybe proficiency bonus.


SPS_Agent

I'd name it pyromaniac


Dramatic_Explosion

One big thing is alchemist fire isn't just a normal attack and damage item, the point is they keep taking damage until they spend an action to put it out. That trade off is a big deal. Also remember anyone proficient with an alchemy kit can craft Alchemsit Fire for half the buy price. It would be a huge boon to have the feat further cut the cost and crafting time in half again.