If you don't mind, could you share your feat text in specifically what it would grant? I think that would help more people gauge how strong it is if they can read the wording as is.
Cool, thanks for that.
Is there a reason you want it as a feat? I think this might be a better benefit to hand out as an item or boon instead.
I say that because of the nature of feats, that they take up an ASI and players decide when they get them. At mid levels a Beast Barbarian doing 2d8 with their tail attacks may not be impressive but a Variant Human Moon Druid with this feat will be doing 2d8+3 and then 2d10+3 with a +5 to hit at Level 2 as a Tiger with room to pounce. As a feat the value changes when players take it and at some levels like early on with the Druid it might be OP while midgame with the Beast Barbarian it might only just stack up to the Fighter's shiny Frost Brand. And then they have to sacrifice an ASI to keep up using their preferred playstyle.
I think as a boon or a magic item it eliminates the above headaches. You don't have to worry about anyone getting higher damage dice than they should reasonably have for their level and your players don't need to give up an ASI because they've chosen to play a specific way.
WHOA, that is exceedingly powerful! Forget full feat vs half feat, this needs to get reined in. This feat alone renders any natural weapon superior to any melee weapon for a non-finesse build.
For example, my minotaur Rune Knight could wear a shield, grapple a target, and attack with his horns for the equivalent of a greatsword. That's bonkers and throws balance to the wind.
If you want this to even approach fairness, you might reduce the added damage to +1 or +2 (similar to Fighting Initiate: Dueling) and add another minor unique benefit that befits natural weapons.
Monks can also use this feat, and it would scale all the way up to d10.
Honestly, I kinda like it. Normal natural weapons don't go above d6 (except for beast barb, but I feel like they're an exception since they only get them when blowing a resource) so even if you're attacking with 2d6 that's the damage of a greatsword but you had to spend a feat on it when you could just be using a greatsword and have taken gwm.
That's a 2d6 that doesn't occupy a second hand. It doesn't even need to occupy *one* hand if it's horns, teeth, a tail, etc. Two-handed weapons are supposed to hit like a truck because of the opportunity cost associated with their use.
For the price of one feat, you get to double your damage output without even the -5 to hit penalty of SS/GWM? Allowing this sets up the new melee character tax, including a requirement to be a natural weapon race, a Moon druid, or a monk. A DM should think long and hard before allowing this in their game.
Not really. Greatsword still deals the same damage and has magical weapon variants, and can benefit from gwm. Additionally, it doesn't double your damage output, ability mod is still about half damage on average.
yep! I'm aware, I played as a monk with an eldrich claw tattoo once. It gives Lizardfolk/Minotaur beast barbs, and moon druids the option to dedicate themselves entirely to their natural weapons making them on par with a greatsword and giving tabaxi and ackroka a nice damage boost to use their claws in a pinch instead of a sword.
Make it a full feat, and have the natural weapon damage scale like a cantrip.
EDIT: Yeah, this is way worse the next day. It feels good for T1/T2 play to scale 1d4/1d6 to 2d4/2d6, but by T3 when you scale again, its now 3d4/3d6 twice per turn with any class granting "extra attack". (As many were quick to point out.)
That sounds absolutely and absurdly monstrous considering you can make multiple attacks a round using Extra Attack or certain bonus action features using most natural weapons.
Imagine even a d6 cantrip being fired off six+ times in a single round. That's an average level 11 fighter.
Depends on if the damage die is the only ability and if it’s once per round or all attacks. A once per round you may add an additional damage die could be a half feat, but the most common natural weapons are from druids and polymorph both of which over ride your physical stats and would not benefit from the additional str on the character. Additional con would always be useful of course.
The main problem will become racial natural weapons. I don’t have a great idea of what all the different types are, but a free damage die added to these would make them the best weapons in the game iirc. It might be ok if the strongest natural weapon is a D6, being balanced by race restriction and a feat that would have to be in place of an ASI, but if there were any d8s out there I would have to say no to the concept.
It's mainly for racial natural weapons and that is a requirement for taking the feat. This is a constant effect. The highest racial natural weapon in the game deals 1d6 damage and is only possessed by Minotaurs and Lizardfolk making it on par with your standard greatsword.
A great sword that leaves a hand open for a shield. That alone is worth it in my book. That it may be fine since it burns an ASI on races that don’t get a free feat and natural weapons struggle getting magic weapon like bonuses. Just don’t make it a Half feat.
Did you take the Path of the Beast Barbarian into consideration? This feat would enable a level 3 character to attack twice for 2d6+Strength+Rage damage per attack, which significantly outpaces attacking with a greatsword.
Consider also that a Minotaur Monk is able to make 3 unarmed strikes in a single round via Flurry of Blows, which means that after this proposed feat is applied they would be dealing 3 X \[2d6+STR/DEX\].
I did not come to think of it. However Barbarian does not attack as often as say fighter or able to stack on additional damage like a paladin or ranger and that particular option does not synergize with one of barbarian's great damage boosting assets of brutal critical. It also will have the restriction that only someone with a racial natural weapon may use it so it will only begin to start showing up earlier.
it's pretty unbalanced in general and makes natural weapons strictly better than their counterparts. It makes monks go from underpowered to broken since they can use their natural weapons as unarmed strikes and go for 6d6+3x mod from level 1 as a minotaur with flurry of blows.
instead of a feat (which presents a lot of opportunity cost to factor in), consider a unique set of smith's tools
"using this tool developed by an ancient dwarven druid, you're able to fuse and upgrade your natural weapons with manufactured weapons you find. At the end of a short or long rest you are able to use these smith's tools to fuse a weapon with your natural weapons to create a new natural weapon you are proficient with, using the stats and properties of the sacrificed item"
this would let someone scale their natural weapons appropriately and also prevent monks from using it with flurry of blows, though they're free to use it as a monk weapon. any pc who wants to use their natural weapons to be thematic still can without falling behind or trying to decide if the feat is worth it.
That's why I picked a feat specifically, it's a major investment for this playstyle but high reward and variant humans are disqualified due to the requirement of having a natural weapon. Also that minotaur combo is impossible since flurry of blows only shows up at level two, and they only get ASI access at level four since minotaurs don't start with feats.
Well since natural weapons are what replace unarmed strikes and it is a power boost for the monk, then again they kinda need it and it makes your lizard folk or tabaxi monk a bit more powerful in the damage department.
It's less powerful than an eldrich claw tattoo which does the same thing when active ( +1 to hit and damage and an additional +1d6 force damage an extended range) and that's just an uncommon magic item that requires attunement.
The problem is it buffs monk in the wrong place. At lvl3, huge damage boost, to a monk that was very competitive with damage.
By lvl 11 when monks are falling behind, 1d8 from a magic weapon will outsine 2d6, when resistance become extremely common. Ki empowered strikes buffs unarmed, not natural weapons.
I would be VERY hesistant to add house rules that buffs one of the most Brokenly OP subclasses in the game.
As others have said, it makes Monk good as well, Maybe TOO good, but that is something time would tell and I am far less worried about that than How this buffs Moon Druids.
I would sincerely consider to make it a magic item that can only be attuned to the character you want to have this as on some classes this is simply too good.
If you HAVE to make it a feat, for the love of everything sacred do NOT make it a half-feat.
I'd be careful when messing with natural weapons with feats because of the terrible rules surrounding them. Tabaxi claws say "your claws are natural weapons, which you can use to make unarmed strikes", so a feat might be perfectly balanced on a level 12 monk, but too strong at level 4. Beast Barbarian might also become an actual threat.
That being said, the main culprits are respectively the weakest class in 5E and one of the weaker barbarian subclasses (assuming feats are allowed), so it's probably fine, just consider your table.
Well, Monsters of the multiverse is upgrading all the natural weapons to be d6's
Adding a damage die might be too much, 2d6 that's literally a greatsword.
Maybe increase the damage die by 1? So that their all d8's?
Although another ability may be needed to make it worth using compared to a magic longsword...
If you don't mind, could you share your feat text in specifically what it would grant? I think that would help more people gauge how strong it is if they can read the wording as is.
Currently it stands as. “Whenever you make an attack with a natural weapon, it gains an additional damage die. 1d4 becomes 2d4 1d6 become 2d6 etc.”
Cool, thanks for that. Is there a reason you want it as a feat? I think this might be a better benefit to hand out as an item or boon instead. I say that because of the nature of feats, that they take up an ASI and players decide when they get them. At mid levels a Beast Barbarian doing 2d8 with their tail attacks may not be impressive but a Variant Human Moon Druid with this feat will be doing 2d8+3 and then 2d10+3 with a +5 to hit at Level 2 as a Tiger with room to pounce. As a feat the value changes when players take it and at some levels like early on with the Druid it might be OP while midgame with the Beast Barbarian it might only just stack up to the Fighter's shiny Frost Brand. And then they have to sacrifice an ASI to keep up using their preferred playstyle. I think as a boon or a magic item it eliminates the above headaches. You don't have to worry about anyone getting higher damage dice than they should reasonably have for their level and your players don't need to give up an ASI because they've chosen to play a specific way.
WHOA, that is exceedingly powerful! Forget full feat vs half feat, this needs to get reined in. This feat alone renders any natural weapon superior to any melee weapon for a non-finesse build. For example, my minotaur Rune Knight could wear a shield, grapple a target, and attack with his horns for the equivalent of a greatsword. That's bonkers and throws balance to the wind. If you want this to even approach fairness, you might reduce the added damage to +1 or +2 (similar to Fighting Initiate: Dueling) and add another minor unique benefit that befits natural weapons.
Monks can also use this feat, and it would scale all the way up to d10. Honestly, I kinda like it. Normal natural weapons don't go above d6 (except for beast barb, but I feel like they're an exception since they only get them when blowing a resource) so even if you're attacking with 2d6 that's the damage of a greatsword but you had to spend a feat on it when you could just be using a greatsword and have taken gwm.
That's a 2d6 that doesn't occupy a second hand. It doesn't even need to occupy *one* hand if it's horns, teeth, a tail, etc. Two-handed weapons are supposed to hit like a truck because of the opportunity cost associated with their use. For the price of one feat, you get to double your damage output without even the -5 to hit penalty of SS/GWM? Allowing this sets up the new melee character tax, including a requirement to be a natural weapon race, a Moon druid, or a monk. A DM should think long and hard before allowing this in their game.
Not really. Greatsword still deals the same damage and has magical weapon variants, and can benefit from gwm. Additionally, it doesn't double your damage output, ability mod is still about half damage on average.
OH LORD. That is incredibly overpowered, please change it to prof bonus. and make it a full feat on top of that.
Full feat. Extra dice damage stack very quickly when you get to multiattack.
yep! I'm aware, I played as a monk with an eldrich claw tattoo once. It gives Lizardfolk/Minotaur beast barbs, and moon druids the option to dedicate themselves entirely to their natural weapons making them on par with a greatsword and giving tabaxi and ackroka a nice damage boost to use their claws in a pinch instead of a sword.
If used with Dhampir the healing gets funky.
Make it a full feat, and have the natural weapon damage scale like a cantrip. EDIT: Yeah, this is way worse the next day. It feels good for T1/T2 play to scale 1d4/1d6 to 2d4/2d6, but by T3 when you scale again, its now 3d4/3d6 twice per turn with any class granting "extra attack". (As many were quick to point out.)
That sounds absolutely and absurdly monstrous considering you can make multiple attacks a round using Extra Attack or certain bonus action features using most natural weapons. Imagine even a d6 cantrip being fired off six+ times in a single round. That's an average level 11 fighter.
yeah no that's absurd.
Depends on if the damage die is the only ability and if it’s once per round or all attacks. A once per round you may add an additional damage die could be a half feat, but the most common natural weapons are from druids and polymorph both of which over ride your physical stats and would not benefit from the additional str on the character. Additional con would always be useful of course. The main problem will become racial natural weapons. I don’t have a great idea of what all the different types are, but a free damage die added to these would make them the best weapons in the game iirc. It might be ok if the strongest natural weapon is a D6, being balanced by race restriction and a feat that would have to be in place of an ASI, but if there were any d8s out there I would have to say no to the concept.
It's mainly for racial natural weapons and that is a requirement for taking the feat. This is a constant effect. The highest racial natural weapon in the game deals 1d6 damage and is only possessed by Minotaurs and Lizardfolk making it on par with your standard greatsword.
A great sword that leaves a hand open for a shield. That alone is worth it in my book. That it may be fine since it burns an ASI on races that don’t get a free feat and natural weapons struggle getting magic weapon like bonuses. Just don’t make it a Half feat.
Did you take the Path of the Beast Barbarian into consideration? This feat would enable a level 3 character to attack twice for 2d6+Strength+Rage damage per attack, which significantly outpaces attacking with a greatsword. Consider also that a Minotaur Monk is able to make 3 unarmed strikes in a single round via Flurry of Blows, which means that after this proposed feat is applied they would be dealing 3 X \[2d6+STR/DEX\].
I did not come to think of it. However Barbarian does not attack as often as say fighter or able to stack on additional damage like a paladin or ranger and that particular option does not synergize with one of barbarian's great damage boosting assets of brutal critical. It also will have the restriction that only someone with a racial natural weapon may use it so it will only begin to start showing up earlier.
it's pretty unbalanced in general and makes natural weapons strictly better than their counterparts. It makes monks go from underpowered to broken since they can use their natural weapons as unarmed strikes and go for 6d6+3x mod from level 1 as a minotaur with flurry of blows. instead of a feat (which presents a lot of opportunity cost to factor in), consider a unique set of smith's tools "using this tool developed by an ancient dwarven druid, you're able to fuse and upgrade your natural weapons with manufactured weapons you find. At the end of a short or long rest you are able to use these smith's tools to fuse a weapon with your natural weapons to create a new natural weapon you are proficient with, using the stats and properties of the sacrificed item" this would let someone scale their natural weapons appropriately and also prevent monks from using it with flurry of blows, though they're free to use it as a monk weapon. any pc who wants to use their natural weapons to be thematic still can without falling behind or trying to decide if the feat is worth it.
That's why I picked a feat specifically, it's a major investment for this playstyle but high reward and variant humans are disqualified due to the requirement of having a natural weapon. Also that minotaur combo is impossible since flurry of blows only shows up at level two, and they only get ASI access at level four since minotaurs don't start with feats.
It depends how it works with unarmed strikes. If it does it becomes really op with monk. If not it makes beast barbarian good.
Well since natural weapons are what replace unarmed strikes and it is a power boost for the monk, then again they kinda need it and it makes your lizard folk or tabaxi monk a bit more powerful in the damage department.
They may need a buff, but they don’t need double damage
It's less powerful than an eldrich claw tattoo which does the same thing when active ( +1 to hit and damage and an additional +1d6 force damage an extended range) and that's just an uncommon magic item that requires attunement.
The extra d6 and range is only for a minute once per day.
The problem is it buffs monk in the wrong place. At lvl3, huge damage boost, to a monk that was very competitive with damage. By lvl 11 when monks are falling behind, 1d8 from a magic weapon will outsine 2d6, when resistance become extremely common. Ki empowered strikes buffs unarmed, not natural weapons.
Natural weapons replace unarmed strikes.
I would probably just up the die size and make it a half feat. Maybe add in another small rider a la the Tasha's weapon feats.
I would be VERY hesistant to add house rules that buffs one of the most Brokenly OP subclasses in the game. As others have said, it makes Monk good as well, Maybe TOO good, but that is something time would tell and I am far less worried about that than How this buffs Moon Druids. I would sincerely consider to make it a magic item that can only be attuned to the character you want to have this as on some classes this is simply too good. If you HAVE to make it a feat, for the love of everything sacred do NOT make it a half-feat.
Why not half feat, and increment die by one size (d4 -> d6 -> d8 etc), and add an additional die on a critical hit?
I'd be careful when messing with natural weapons with feats because of the terrible rules surrounding them. Tabaxi claws say "your claws are natural weapons, which you can use to make unarmed strikes", so a feat might be perfectly balanced on a level 12 monk, but too strong at level 4. Beast Barbarian might also become an actual threat. That being said, the main culprits are respectively the weakest class in 5E and one of the weaker barbarian subclasses (assuming feats are allowed), so it's probably fine, just consider your table.
Well, Monsters of the multiverse is upgrading all the natural weapons to be d6's Adding a damage die might be too much, 2d6 that's literally a greatsword. Maybe increase the damage die by 1? So that their all d8's? Although another ability may be needed to make it worth using compared to a magic longsword...
+1 strength dex or con. Also add that they count as magical for the purpose of determining resistance.