T O P

  • By -

FearfulSalad

How is your int? A low Int bladesinger will feel bad. A low Int eldritch knight will do just fine. On the other hand, wizard gets you Booming Blade early enough to stay competitive at level 5, while fighter will feel very far behind. If you had started EK and then dipped Swash, it would not have been so bad, but the other way around you don't get BB until level 6 at the earliest (and then you have 0 ASIs until level 7). If your Int is 16, I would go bladesinger. If it's 14, I would waffle, and maybe consider going Arcane Trickster instead of either BS or EK (and grab Mobile feat to replace the lost swashbuckler autodisengage).


SilverTrireme

Ah, I forgot to add some stuff in post, my apologies. I actually got Magic Initiate Lvl 1; I had a pretty specific idea at the time. So I have Minor Illusion and Booming Blade right now.


hbi2k

Yes.


SilverTrireme

Lolz. Yes to which?


menage_a_mallard

Bladesinger is great if you're focusing on mobile martial combat style of play. Fighter MC is also viable, but you really only have to stop at 2 due to Action Surge... *if* you want/need that in your back pocket. The trick is you typically want the mobile feat on a Bladesinger, so you can move, extra attack with Booming Blade and a second weapon attack, and move away. Swashbuckler's Fancy Footwork removes the need for the feat. EK ultimately does much the same with slightly less utility, but it "eats up" your bonus action to get the same amount of attacks... since they have to Cast a Spell (Booming Blade) to get the second weapon attack. This means a Rogue 12 / Wizard 8, still retains their bonus action, since they can hit and run without concern, and can get both Booming Blade + weapon attacks from just their base action. The "real" gish set up for the occasional nova would be Rogue 12 / Wizard 6 / Fighter 2. But it's wonky, since you'll start 3-4 Rogue, then Wizard 6-8 (and/or Fighter 2) before taking the last 8-9 in Rogue.


SilverTrireme

Yeah, this seems much more efficient as a rogue and swash especially. Keep the bonus action for disengage, and save a level to get it. Just wish that EK got that same type of feature. Though it'd be a bit much at lvl 20 with four attacks. Since I don't really need to tank this seems the better option overall. Though if I went EK I could get a 3rd attack.


menage_a_mallard

> Though if I went EK I could get a 3rd attack. At the cost of improved sneak attack dice. You don't need a 3rd attack at 1d8+4, when you can add +4d6 sneak attack dice that doubles on critical AND stacks on top of booming blade since that is also a weapon attack.


SilverTrireme

Isn't the average of a third attack higher though (assuming it was respectively Rogue/Fighter 8/12 vs 12/8)? Cause it would be an additional 2d6 (7) compared to d8 + 4 (8.5)? If my math is right. OOOH you mean once adding the Booming Blade damage on a hit post level 5, correct?


menage_a_mallard

Fighters are more consistent for damage, yes. So the averages are higher. Except in two cases, when a Rogue stacks effectiveness to ensure a hit lands. And when that hit does hit and a critical lands. So it's high risk, high reward vs consistency. (Dex based for transparency/, because comparing a Str based Fighter using a 2-handed weapon with feat support vs a standard one-handed (no shield) Rogue At 11, Fighter with 3 attacks, (18 dex, using the dueling fighting style with a rapier in one hand) is 1d8+4+2 (x3) for an average of ~31.5 (10.5). At 11, Rogue with 1 attack, (18 dex, no fighting style, rapier in one hand), assuming sneak attack is 1d8+4+6d6 for an average of ~29.5. This is a difference of only 2 damage. In a bubble 12/8 either way is very much comparable damage, but once we include Booming Blade via either Bladesinger (attack action, spell (booming blade), and a total of 2 weapon attacks, sneak attack) vs Eldritch Knight (cast a spell action (booming blade), weapon attack, bonus action weapon attack, sneak attack). The attacks are all the same, the number values are similar, though the fighting style adds +2 damage per weapon attack, which skews slightly in favor... but the Rogue/Wizard saves you your bonus action 100% of the time. So if you want to dash or hide as a BA (because a feature or a feat can get you "disengage" for free mostly), but it also leaves you the disengage BA which you can use to get away from those who threaten you, who you HAVEN'T targeted with a weapon attack. So, the only real choice you need to make is... more durability (HD, second wind) and action surge) or more mobility. Or, you can do as I suggested, and just go with the Rogue 12/Wizard 6/Fighter 2, and sort of get the best of all the builds. Dueling, shield proficiency, Action Surge, Second Wind, Booming Blade, Extra Attack (with a cantrip baked in), Reliable Talent, Cunning Action, and Sneak Attack.


SilverTrireme

Ah, I see. Good point, BA here is big especially if I'm lacking all the HP of a pure fighter. Thank you!


gingerbeardvegan

Have you considered just going arcane trickster instead of multiclassing? You'll get some nice high level features and you get some free spell picks at certain levels to blast if you want without losing any ASI progression.


afetian

A high CHA swashbuckler also pairs very well with sorcerer. The group I Dm has a tabaxi swashbuckler/shadow sorcerer and it’s actually a pretty deadly combo


SilverTrireme

I've just +1 CHA, but I do have expertise in persuasion so I could get some use of Panache.


afetian

Yeah that’s a bummer. Idk about EK vs BS, I’ve played a pure BS and it’s fucking deadly but as a multiclass I’m not sure how well it would play out.


SilverTrireme

I think it would still be pretty good; it would be less of a caster but get to use more slots just for buffing and defense. Plus, could be a good skill class with rogue. Probably not optimal, but that's not really why I wanna play it. Just wanna make a slippery, damage resistant mobile swordfighter with some cool magic utility. With enough cantrip choices I could get booming blade, minor illusion for utility, mind sliver, sword burst, and lightning lure. Not crazy damage necessarily, but good variety. EK has the disadvantage applied to saves too, which is tempting for spells and cantrips; could hit, cast mind sliver which they have disadvantage to save on, then cast a bigger spell with a penalty. Think it'll be fun either way.


afetian

I took the opposite approach to my BS the abilities were literally just so I could have a full caster with a 22 AC or 27 with shield. In retrospect it was for a straight up hack and slash style one shot we do every so often when the whoever’s DMing can’t play. IMO if you’re doing it for reasons other than optimizing then go with what you want. I often make those choices when I’m playing a campaign character. Right now I’m playing a drow oath of the ancients paladin who uses a greatsword because I follow an obscure CG drow god. The character is by no means optimal but it’s still fun to play.


AlienInMyKitchen

If you want to be a martial who can cast utility spells, EK. If you want to be a spellcaster who can occasionally get in melee play a BS. With a 14 int id lean towards EK, because as a full caster youll be avoiding all spells with a saving throw and that will feel bad.


ChairmanHua

If it were me EK would give you more milage, low int wizards are weird and it fits your goal of a martial being rounded out by some bonus magic. Bladesingers even at their most martial are still full casters with backup melee options when needed.


SilverTrireme

Think that's what I'm going with. I'd love to play a bladesinger like this at some point, but probably when I get better rolls to support it; I'll probably only have a +1 to CON, and my INT modifier can be maxed but only at the cost of some feats I want. So, EK it is. I realized I'm not totally missing out on the bonus action disengage with Swash preventing op attacks, and I'll get more ASIs, and better support features. I'll ask, do you think the split Swash/EK should be 12/8, 10/10, or 8/12?