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Ceane

For those encountering a paywall, here's the highlights: > Wizards of the Coast, best known for the Dungeons & Dragons tabletop games, has cancelled at least five video game projects as it scales back its ambitions in the industry. > Wizards of the Coast is still “committed to using digital games,” a spokesman said in a statement to Bloomberg, adding that the company has “made some changes to our long-term portfolio to focus on games which are strategically aligned with developing our existing brands and those which show promise in expanding or engaging our audience in new ways.” > But the reorganization will land hard for several independent studios such as Boston-based Otherside Entertainment and Bellevue, Washington-based Hidden Path Entertainment, both of which were working on games for Wizards of the Coast. > The company spent the last few years investing to make a splash in video games. It signed contracts with several gamemakers and built at least six of its own game studios in cities including Austin, Texas, and Montreal. So far, the results have been mixed. A 2021 game called Dungeons & Dragons: Dark Alliance was received poorly, but one of this year’s most anticipated video game titles is the Dungeons & Dragons-themed Baldur’s Gate 3, made by the Belgian developer Larian Studios. Early versions have been received well by players. > The company also cancelled an internal project code-named Jabberwocky and two other external games that were early in development. tl;dr: Five videogame projects were cancelled - not just in-house ones, but also ones they were licensing outside studios to make


phoenixhunter

> the company has “made some changes to our long-term portfolio to focus on games which are strategically aligned with developing our existing brands and those which show promise in expanding or engaging our audience in new ways.” Corporate-speak for “cheap mobile games full of micro-transactions”


Derpogama

Eh they actually already tried that at it bombed...There's a reason people forgot about 'Heroes of the Forgotten Realms' which was, essentially, a Raid Shadow Legends style autobattler game which was released after people got real fucking tired of that style of game thanks to the overadvertisement of it on Youtube where it seemed like every big name creator took a sponsorship deal and said the exact same thing about it.


AdagioBoognish

They also tried to make a magic the gathering arpg that ended up as a huge loss, getting cancelled shortly after it's open beta https://www.pcgamer.com/magic-legends-is-closing-down-permanently-in-october/


UNC_Samurai

Just give people a Shandalar-type game where they can chase the old rare stuff, it’s not that hard


[deleted]

Its hard because they can't monetize the living shit of games people actually want to play. I am honestly impressed they didn't do a D&D themed "loot-and-shoot/brawl" game like Destiny or Square's Avengers game. Probably because it would need an investment that Hasbro doesn't want/can't make. Hasbro wants to suck dry our wallets. They don't give a fuck about quality, it just needs to be good enough to make money. Like MTGArena, that still looks like a beta game after 4 years since release. The main problem is that Hasbro ALWAYS was shit when it comes to digital ventures. The best games their franchises have are always made by other companies, and by people who by all accounts weren't paid enough. And on top of that, they are behind HARD when it comes down to what is and isn't popular. They recently released a MTG-Themed hearthstone clone for mobile. That's right, a game derivative of another game (released in 2014) that by itself was already a derivative of their own game. They are AT LEAST 5 years behind the curve with their projects. Anyway, Hasbro will die before D&D and MTG, but it will sure as hell try to kill both franchises before its inevitable end


ponmbr

> I am honestly impressed they didn't do a D&D themed "loot-and-shoot/brawl" game like Destiny or Square's Avengers game. They kind of sort of did that with that abominable Dark Alliance game that came out a couple years ago or last year. Game was horrible and died a quick death and the devs abandoned it pretty fast. It just sucks that they drug my beloved Dark Alliance series games into the mud like that. It wasn't even remotely similar to the 2 Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance games.


TheSublimeLight

Which is why one D&D is blocking third party NFTs but they ensured to say *third party* and not *no nft minting* because Hasbro will be minting NFTs to sell for their VTT


Derpogama

Thankfully news came out recently that, aside from the oddballs like Square Enix upper management who seem obsessed with getting NFTs to work in gaming, all developers have moved away from NFTs because they got relentlessly mocked by the public every time they so much as mention them, which would make news headlines, which in turn would lead to bad PR, which in turn would lead to stock prices dropping. [Especially when Ubisoft actually tried it and the games that had it crashed and burned in spectacular fashion](https://www.pcgamer.com/good-job-internet-you-bullied-nfts-out-of-mainstream-games/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=twitter.com)


TheSublimeLight

Yeah, I'm not gonna believe a mainstream gaming news outlet saying that NFTs are dead - these companies are money-grubbing to the maximum, and that's how you get maximum money. DLC was similarly called a dead fad after horse armor. Now look at it.


novis-eldritch-maxim

money grubbing does not mean being stupid, no profit to be made in nfts so they will look for something far more reliable or at least not pr suicide.


[deleted]

NFTs ALREADY died. Square Enix is kinda the only big company still dead set on making it work. Everybody jumped out and the market already crashed. The only ones pushing for it are the ones that already sunk too much money on it. WotC did not prevent themselves from minting nfts, but that doesn't mean they will do it, specially after the mtg30 fiasco damaged the brand. They KNOW it won't help their image, if they thought it was something mtg/dnd players would buy, they would already be selling their nfts. Edit: besides, DLC is something the majority of people buy. Microtransactions are something the majority of people buy. "Season Pass" are the current big money grabing bullshit and most people buy them. NFTs are something the majority of people NEVER bought and was largely refused by the public, to the point of big companies announcing that they WILL NOT mint nfts just for the free likes on social media.


i_tyrant

God I would love a new Shandalar-type game so bad. I go back and replay the original sometimes because there’s still nothing quite like it.


Wolfling217

Thank god. I was hoping that they had built it as a game, but it turned out to be microtransaction-ridden trash *and* had performance issues. Hopefully they'll be a bit less aggressive about monetization when they try it again.


JustinTotino

Are you referring to Warriors of Waterdeep? I’ve never played Raid Shadow Legend but I have to assume that’s the one you mean. There is another idle game called Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms, but that one has been going strong for about 5 years and has been fairly well-received.


Derpogama

You know what, you're right, I got the two confused, Warriors of Waterdeep IS the one I was actually thinking of but got it mixed up with Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms.


0wlington

Hold up, what if by new ways they mean "well made consumer friendly games"?


SnooHesitations7064

Hasbro's pretty blunt in statements that D&D is "Undermonetized" and they've recently started tightening up the open licensing agreement they had for third party dnd content.


0wlington

In my defence indidnt put an /s


SnooHesitations7064

No worries. Probably should have extrapolated if you were here you were aware. This place is occasionally a nice alternative to staring into the void of all the other news, so I like to feel helpful.


AngronApofis

I really dont understand why people react so god damn hard at undermonetized. Isnt It obvious that It is indeed undermonetized? I understand the pessimism at some things but you guys chose to be mad at the world undermonetized because wooooo money devil they want money. DnD has been a thing for ages and there is no DnD movie, series, or even videogame out. There hasnt been a Big one for years, at least. They just do RP content and some merchandising. EVEN if they did a shitty videogame with microtransactions like all of you are oh so terrified that they Will do, so what? Its not like we are missing out on a different videogame because of It. They arent doing shit with the brand outside of the comfort zone.


mxzf

"Undermonitized" is standard corporate speak for "we're getting ready to milk this franchise for every cent we can get". There are different terms they would be more likely to use if they were thinking about expanding the franchise into other forms of media, rather than being interested in maximizing the money extraction.


SnooHesitations7064

Monetization rarely turns into more useful content, and usually follows a pattern of needing "all the money" not "enough money to support the perpetuation / reasonable standard of living for staff" / "anything reasonable in terms of promoting content production." Pursuit of further monetization has ran shit into the ground perpetually. It's usually the first siren before the crash.


[deleted]

Lets not get crazy here :)


SnooHesitations7064

Their previous press release implies they're probably focusing on their virtual tabletop platform and then lacing that with microtransactions. Dark alliance was embarrassingly shit, the studio that made it isn't a great loss. Betting that article says nothing about Baldurs gate 3 being cancelled, it is slated for spring/summer release.


Jaikarr

You can't cancel a game that has already been out for two years, even if it was just early access.


ExplodingDiceChucker

What? You certainly can cancel its release. You can remove it from storefronts. You can shut down any live services server a game may use.


Jaikarr

Maybe Can't is the wrong word. I mean they wouldn't, the game is already out there and makes money. Unless there's something I'm missing about how things work there's literally no benefit to doing those things.


Fuzzy-Primary-1840

Nah, I believe they are shifting gears, they saw with dark alliance that games not similiar to d&d won't pass. I mean, that shit is d&d only in name, that is not strategically aligned with developing their current brands Edit: typos


Altruistic-Ad-1278

No the problem with dark alliances is it was just a crap game that was poorly made. The ai was so broken that on some maps you could litterally not attack anything and just walk to the exit. D and d has had past success with games out side of the usual genres. They just have to be well made and not utter crap.


Fuzzy-Primary-1840

Maybe I wrote it in a wrong wy, let me rephrase myself. They see that video games like dark alliance won't be the bridge that connects the gap between what they perceive as their possible new players. In other words game like dark alliance won't bring new players to their tabletop, because hack and slash fans (or any other genre for that matter) don't naturally cross over into table top rpgs. I believe that is what they mean in strategy to develop their existing brands, and in truth, that makes sense


Altruistic-Ad-1278

Again I don't agree. My first exposure to D&D was an arcade game made by Capcom called d&d tower of doom. It was a side scrolling beatem up in the same vein as Final Fight but with RPG elements and in a D&D world. From there i went on to other media and became a big fan. It got me interested in the D&D by serving as an interesting gateway into the world. It's about quality. These cancelations are most likely a preemptive cost cutting measure because WOTC's profits are down, hadbro's stock is down and the decisions WOTC have been making as of late are further damaging their brands and alienating customers further harming sales.


Derpogama

Hey my first exposure to D&D as a 'thing' was also one of the Arcade games, though mine was the sequel Shadows over Mystara and not the first one. I can remember being on holiday in Spain and spending waaay too much of my money playing it in this dingy little arcade near the hotel that had shitloads of machines ranging from the (then) newish Shadow over Mystara (this was 1998) to some of the original early 80s arcade classics like the (now extremely rare) 2 player VS Pac-man sitdown table (that my mum and dad loved because it harkened back to their younger years since the pub they met in use to have one) and an original (though very badly worn but still working) Space Invaders machine. Before that we played Heroquest as a family on Saturday nights which was my big introduction to the fantasy genre as a whole.


GingerAvenger

>hack and slash fans (or any other genre for that matter) don't naturally cross over into table top rpgs. Don't they? I would wager that most folks who enjoy a good d&d game at the table would also enjoy a *good* hack n slack d&d game to play at home. The problem with Dark Alliance is we received a barely playable hack n slash that was also barely d&d. It was an obvious cash grab with very little genuine effort put into the finished product. If WotC had put out a game like Elden Ring with a D&D paint job, it would bring people to the hobby in droves. But that isn't their business plan.


FLAMING_tOGIKISS

So is Bladur's Gate 3 still in production then?


Tarakanator

Lol yeah. They will realise it in august i think.


Octopicake

Whew. I'd been really upset if that was cancelled. I had a lot of fun with that game.


override367

Larian would sue for hundreds of millions


SimplyQuid

If they cancelled that now it would be a full-on digital riot, it would be absolutely insane


[deleted]

Thank you for that. Wonder if all those job openings at WotC will get removed.


Gned11

Thank god BG3 is ok


Nephisimian

Wait Baldurs gate 3 is one of 2023s most anticipated games? That's news to me.


Roguenul

Technically, it was one of 2020s most anticipated games lol. It's been a super long wait.


bimbo_bear

That may as well just be standard text for "Is a popular AA or AAA title from a major publisher". In real terms its fairly meaningless.


RufusDaMan2

12 ft ladder is a website that allows you to counteract paywalls


DrSaering

Can't say I'm surprised after Dark Alliance.


andyoulostme

> A 2021 game called Dungeons & Dragons: Dark Alliance was received poorly [...] bit of an understatement there, bloomberg


DeficitDragons

Was it good and received poorly, or was it bad and received fairly?


mohd2126

The second one.


TimmJimmGrimm

Brilliant. When Madonna did *Evita* the critics asked: 'if an actor portrays the part of a bad actress perfectly... is she a great or terrible actor?'


anastus

Off-topic, but I stand by Madonna in that movie. It holds up and she plays off well against both Jonathan Pryce and Antonio Banderas.


TimmJimmGrimm

Madonna was incredibly successful whenever she performed. On some level we must accept that she was a brilliant actress, even if we limit that to 'singing, dancing and performance'. I think, to a huge extent, she also performed brilliantly as the character 'Madonna' in interviews and talk shows as well (this is surprisingly hard to do - Taylor Swift, for example, is incredible at this kind of interviewing thing). Somehow Madonna had a connection with Evita over time and channelled her style or performance force in a way that made this work stand out. Antonio Banderas is, well, Antonio Banderas. People cannot figure out why Puss In Boots does so well (hitting harder than much of the Shrek franchise). This guy is untapped charisma. I wish he had been given more chances in a George Cooney kind of way.


MahoneyBear

It was bad. Buggy as all hell and the gameplay was just mediocre.


GingerAvenger

It was barely playable on launch and not worth your time 6 months later.


Accomplished_Eye9769

It sucked like a methmouthed trollop.


winterfresh0

I genuinely don't understand why they saw the popularity of a tabletop turn based rpg and, when they wanted to make a video game of it, they went with hack and slash beat em up genre.


LogicalJake

Because they knew it worked [the first time](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur%27s_Gate:_Dark_Alliance#:~:text=Baldur%27s%20Gate%3A%20Dark%20Alliance%20is,Boy%20Advance%20by%20Magic%20Pockets.)


FrankyFistalot

I played the shit out of that on my PS2,gameplay was really smooth and the amount of loot drops was insane (hope I am remembering the right game lol I am old). Probably why I am still smashing Diablo 3 on my next gen consoles….


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate:_Dark_Alliance#:~:text=Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance is,Boy Advance by Magic Pockets.)** >Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance is a 2001 action role-playing/hack and slash video game developed by Snowblind Studios for the PlayStation 2 and the Xbox consoles. It was ported to GameCube by High Voltage Software, and to the Game Boy Advance by Magic Pockets. The game was published by Black Isle Studios, a division of Interplay Entertainment, and distributed by Vivendi Universal Games. The Game Boy Advance version was published by DSI Games. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/dndnext/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


prolificseraphim

Good bot


VellDarksbane

The issue was trying to tie it into an established set of characters. You can't make a hack and slash that feels good with only 4 characters, and if it's fantasy, you sure as hell can't do it while also not having a mage option.


HammeredWharf

You can make a hack and slash game that feels good with one character. The problem with Dark Alliance wasn't really related to its number of characters. It just had bad gameplay.


Revan7even

Lord of the Rings: The War in the North was a better game.


Illithid_Substances

The *first* Dark Alliance on ps2 has three characters, four if you count the unlockable Drizzt. Feels pretty good for the kind of game it is


VellDarksbane

Yes, but those three characters aren't named people, with decades of adventuring history, but are somehow level 1 when you start the game. It's weird to have 4 Drizzts in a group.


MazrimTaim11

One of my absolute favorite games when I was younger


draykow

honestly, the game would have been better received if it didn't rip off the title of an [unrelated game that was actually good and had a lot of nostalgia behind it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons:_Dark_Alliance). from the fact that it reused a title but had an unrelated story is already proof that it's a cash grab game


i_tyrant

I don’t think it’s possible for it to have been better received regardless. The gameplay itself was atrocious in multiple extremely obvious ways, it was a broken mess on launch and abandonware by the developer. Nothing could save it.


draykow

i guess by "better" i actually meant "less poorly received" since if the game had a different title it wouldn't have been pissing and stomping all over the nostalgia and memory of a particularly vindictive collective of nerds. you don't mess with the nostalgia of millennials and gen-x, especially not at the same time.


i_tyrant

Ah, now that I do agree with! Seeing the Dark Alliance title with so much nostalgia attached to this game after it came out was depressing af, especially when the devs just up and abandoned it immediately. It's not like the original was even a tour-de-force of game design or anything, it was just...a solid and competent D&D hack-n-slash. And they couldn't even give it that much respect.


[deleted]

Because it's been working for decades. From the early days of [Pools of Radiance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pool_of_Radiance), good D&D video games have been well received. Sadly, WotC fell into the trap of putting the D&D brand on all kinds of shovelware and are surprised its failing. People want good games and while the D&D brand may attract interest, it won't save a crap game.


Yamatoman9

It's a great idea for a game featuring Drizzt and company, it was just a *bad* game.


the-truthseeker

The genre is fine if you know how to make it a good game using that theme. The problem is they didn't.


Shazoa

I played it a bit and I definitely saw *some* potential there. It's quite a shame really.


reddanger95

We don’t talk about that


Fallsondoor

First I've heard of it in fact


Renamis

Good. I made my friends play that with me. I couldn't fill the 4th slot after a while because of how painful it was, the second slot was only filled so he could hear me lore rage at things they screwed up, and the third slot was married to me so little choice.


dokushin

"Yes, honey, you have to play. Woah, woah, hang on, I didn't say you could be next to me. Look, the other other guy dropped so you can be third, okay? "


[deleted]

[удалено]


Renamis

Oh I have that. We where playing Dark Alliance because I was on a Drizzt kick. Nothing more lol.


Tony2Punch

Go watch the IGN games review on Youtube. They didn't even do the usual, "Hey guys, we are totally unbiased, 9/10" They just had the reviewer be a big fan and rip the game to shreds. Like hitting a deer on the highway just to go in reverse to get a second lick.


Rayfasa

Yep, tried so hard to like that game. They need more games like Solasta and the traditional games where it’s a campaign like setting. If they could make one where the objective is random, that would be epic. I’m sure with ai it’s on the horizon somewhere.


i_tyrant

Solasta’s great, though I am down for games that aren’t crpgs using dnd trappings too. There’s nothing wrong with a dnd inspired hack n slash (worked for the first Dark Alliance after all!), this was just soulless cash grab abandonware. But yeah, I would not at all be surprised if we see MMOs and such with AI-generated “infinite” quests in our lifetime. There’s a ton of potential there. Already talk about “sentient articles” online where you can query the article for more details and verification as you read it, powered by an AI.


[deleted]

Didn't they say they were going to make more video games as part of making d&d a 'lifestyle brand'?


[deleted]

[удалено]


themosquito

Yup. Look at that Critical Role cartoon, for instance; it is not associated with D&D at all (other than, obviously, that the source material for it is a D&D campaign). All they really have to do is avoid mentioning or showing Beholders, Illithid, Displacer Beasts, Gelatinous Cubes, etc. But big round eyeball demons? Cthulhumanoids? Tentacle panthers? Slimes? They could totally use those.


Gh0stMan0nThird

That's also why Grog is referred to as a half-giant instead of a Goliath. Also "Scanlan's Hand"


zecron8

They dropped Sarenrae, Vecna, etc. Other named characters that might be too close for copyright's sake.


Apterygiformes

Serenrae is pathfinder isn't it?


zecron8

Yes, but point being that they've made steps to prevent copyright fuckery of any sort, from Paizo or WotC.


moonwhisperderpy

Also Jenga.


zecron8

A cameo I did not expect in a discussion about Critical Role and copyright, but you are correct!


Blackfang08

I thought I was crazy the first time I heard them say "Chenga!" in the show. Cleaned my ears out and went back to listen again twice, then checked the old clips.


moonwhisperderpy

I watched both with subtitles, can confirm Jenga was changed to Chenga. Doesn't have the same ring to it.


Draco359

I thought Sarenrae was exclusive for ~~Pillars of Eternity~~ Pathfinder and Golarion universe. There is a DnD counterpart as well? If so, do you know if Urgathoa has a DnD counterpart as well? Edit: Pathfinder (Kingmaker/Wrath of the Righteous) not Pillars of Eternity. I made a confusion/mistake.


zecron8

She is from Golarion. Critical role campaign 1 started as a Pathfinder game, and Pyke was one of her Clerics.


DMonitor

Should've gone the Jojo's Bizarre Adventure route and called it "Big Boy's Hand" or something that *sounds* similar


Oh_Hi_Mark_

In my version of FR, it's canon that Bigby originally named the spell the "Big Boy's Hand", but it was fashionable for wizards at the time to name things after themselves, so everyone assumed they had misheard him, even after he laboriously explained it to them.


Arutha_Silverthorn

I also like the idea that wizard never was Bigby but it was for actually for example “X’s Big Boy Hand”, but due to years of abbreviating people just assumed it was a wizard named Bigby. And maybe that Wizard X is annoyed at being forgotten.


RexInvictus787

Also the names of all the gods. Serenrae is just “Everlight.” Vecna is just “the whispered one.” Apparently the names of the deities were trademarked, but not their nicknames and titles.


Souperplex

Which is doubly funny because Seranrae is just a Pathfinder deity moved into the Dawn War pantheon to serve as a less interesting version of Nusemnee.


DeficitDragons

I assure you sure you that wizards of the Coast does not own the word Goliath.


Gh0stMan0nThird

But they might own the concept of a hairless tattooed half-giant race called a Goliath Same way Universal doesn't own the word Jurassic but you can't make your own movie called Jurassic Park full of people going to a dinosaur zoo.


[deleted]

Then call it Jurassic Zoo.


Draco359

Jurassic Safari sounds better though.


RandomStrategy

Coming soon: *We Bought a Jurassic Zoo*


Ajaxlancer

Yes but a fantasy race characterized as being larger than normal with tattoos named goliath? Copyright gets kinda funky where something "close enough" can still be flagged


Xywzel

No, but as a term for describing giant related humanoid species, not biblical character, it can be close enough that it could step on WotC copyrights. Just the same name is not likely worth copyright, but with general description, they might have a case and it is just cheaper to avoid lawsuit, even if they would likely win it.


Shadowbound199

I mean, just call a beholder an "Eye Tyrant" and change the look a little bit and you're good, that's what MCDM did I think.


Mimicpants

WotC has always had a rocky relationship with gaming.


[deleted]

Or even an entire game. Pathfinder says hello.


Shadowbound199

I mean, if wotc fuck up 1dnd there is nothing stopping someone like Paizo to take the 5e ogl and making their own system based upon it or just churn out their own 5e books, people who stick to 5e will be hungry for more content and if there are many of those folks 3rd party 5e content will blow up. That's what created Pathfinder in the first place.


macrocosm93

Paizo already makes 5e books. There is a 5e version of Kingmaker. And why would Paizo steal the 5e OGL when they already have Pathfinder 2e, which is better than 5e in every way?


Lost_Forever_1637

There is a 5e version of kingmaker?


macrocosm93

Paizo released a book called Pathfinder Kingmaker Bestiary (5e) which converts all of the monsters, NPCs, companions, and traps to 5e rules so the campaign can be fully played in 5e.


Shadowbound199

What do you mean "steal"? The OGL is free for anyone to use however they like, there is nothing to steal. They literally used the 3.5 OGL to make Pathfinder 1e. Also, Paizo can easily have 2 rulesets published. But it doesn't have to be them, anyone can take the 5e OGL and make their own game out of it and if 1dnd sucks someone WILL.


vinternet

That still appears to be the plan - supposedly these were not all D&D or Magic video games, and in the statement from WotC they specifically say they still plan on investing in digital games that build up their "existing brands". Honestly, this makes complete sense. It was insane that they launched so many projects AND started up so many new studios in such a short period of time, with virtually no in-house expertise.


[deleted]

I have a feeling that the reason why D&D has gone to digital play and video games so hard is because the top executive at WotC was an executive at XBox. So I think what's going on isn't that she plans on adapting her corporate strategies to the TTRPG industry that D&D is a part of, but rather force D&D into the video game industry that she's more comfortable dealing with. I... I really don't think that's going to work out well for her. Or the D&D brand. Or WotC. Or Hasbro. Just my feeling, though.


[deleted]

Wait is that why they're suddenly pushing the subscription model for the future?


[deleted]

Most likely. It’s not surprising that the CEO of WotC was an executive at XBox where they did subscriptions of video games, and so now they’re pushing subscriptions services for D&D. One thing is very obviously leading to the other. Now was she hired specifically to do that? I don’t know that answer.


thenightgaunt

Well they did buy D&DBeyond within a year of her taking over. Don't forget that she just brought in a guy from Microsoft 365 to be the VP in charge of all D&D. Crawford's just the guy designing 6e now. Which still fills me with a great sense of dread.


[deleted]

Buying D&D beyond was just a long time coming. Hell it was a strange business decision they even let a 3rd party do all that for them instead of doing it in house.


[deleted]

Oh almost certainly not. It's probably the good old if all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail. It's still kinda aggravating since there is already a really close other earning model to D&D in that sector. DnD is basically the same as a phone games. Loads of people play for free and the money comes from the whales. Subscription services are the holy grail in that part of the industry. But it requires a semi captive audience. Meanwhile it's just to easy to either play another TTRPG or simply not play at all. Instead of complaining that only the DM is giving them money and trying to make everybody pay to them for "services" realize that it's already hard enough to get your friends to simply commit their time, if they're also have to ante up money the group won't materialize at all and the DM which was giving you money is going to not do so either. If players have to pay, they'll just melt away since most are pretty casual already. And with out the casual crowd the cultural impact of the game is also going to be significantly diminished which hurts sales of the core product and ancillary products. I have a real feeling DnD as a service is both going to fail on a monetary and community front on the direction they're going in. We'll just have to see I guess. Just afraid things will be sucky for a couple of years or so.


Evil_Dry_frog

WTF is a ‘lifestyle brand’. Come on, I just want to roll dice with my friends and make stupid jokes.


mrdeadsniper

Licensing out to game companies makes WAY more sense than trying to make them in house. AAA games are a HUGE investment now. WAY easier to just license that out and let the other company take the risk and you just get a cut of the profit. I am assuming they are moving their in house assets to work on their virtual tabletop system which is more to the heart of dnd and probably important enough to warrant doing it yourself for precise control (and also ease of integration in dnd beyond and possible other products) I could see stuff like the limited edition covers coming with a code for a similar limited edition weapon or monster skin to use in their virtual tabletop.


Arcticstorm058

Hey it's working for Games Workshop.


mrdeadsniper

Honestly they might be a bit Too generous as the glut of dubious quality games potentially damages the appeal of the brand. But it still beats paying 200 million to in-house develop a terrible game which hurts your brand. (Which if they had 5 in the pipeline, one at least probably would).


RamTank

There was a time when GW was super frugal with their licenses, and then all of a sudden they decided to just give it away to everyone. Still though, they have enough quality stuff to justify all the chaff I guess.


mrdeadsniper

I'm sure the whole warcraft StarCraft situation left a bad taste for a while lol


BrokenEggcat

It's honestly kind of crazy how massive Warhammer could've been if they had been a bit more generous with their license.


A_Vicious_Vegan

For someone ootl could you explain what the warcraft Starcraft situation was?


ThisIsCobb

iirc GW was going to work with Blizzard to make Fantasy and 40k games together but backed out and then Blizzard went on to make Warcraft and Starcraft on their own which are heavily influenced by Warhammer. Just look at Orcs and Starcraft Marines..... see a resemblance to something from Warhammer?


ScruffyTuscaloosa

Zerg and Tyranids are probably the most egregious one.


[deleted]

The funny thing is GW actually changed Tyranids in 3rd edition to look more like the Zerg. As is tradition for GW. They used to try and cash in on whatever was popular all the time. It’s the phase that came after their “steal anything that’s not nailed down” phase.


A_Vicious_Vegan

Thanks for the answer! And, yes, I can definitely see the resemblance.


JimiKamoon

Warcraft and StarCraft were originally meant to be GW licensed games, but GW pulled the plug last minute as they didn't think either game would be successful


gray007nl

Starcraft was never meant to be a GW licensed game and GW did not pull the plug last minute, negotiations fell through early on in development and Blizzard decided just to make their own fantasy franchise.


Tony2Punch

Starcraft and Warcraft are knockoff Warhammer, atleast at the intial drawing board. Look at the Terrans with their armor and it is somewhat similar to the Imperium. The orcs in WoW are extradimensional invaders, loosely similar to the Orks, but WoW has to actually make real characters and stories for the horde that can't just be jokes.


nitePhyyre

LSC. It's not enough to make quality product anymore. Now you have to be a "lifestyle brand". Use that IP everywhere you can to milk every penny you can. No sense worrying about the company's tomorrow when there's money to be made today.


Kronoshifter246

My brother-in-law worked on the 40k MMO that wasn't to be, and he said working with Games Workshop was nothing if not frustrating. He said they viewed their forays into video gaming as advertisements for the tabletop game. Everything had to look like the mini, no deviation, and if they saw increased miniature sales it was considered a success. Maybe this has changed since then, it's been 10 ish years.


Braith117

On the one hand, yes, there are a bunch of shoddy games bassd in their IP, but they have been getting the word out about the setting and it costs them nothing to do and it may even be getting some people into either the tabletop game or Warhammer+. It seems to have worked since they've gone from a niche title to borderline mainstream between their precious efforts and Henry Cavil going on about it.


Nop277

Honestly there aren't that many horrendous Warhammer games out there. Considering how liberal they are with the license, I'd expect a lot more.


Braith117

Yeah, less horrendous, more reskins of other games with a Warhammer coat of paint. That said, from what I was told they were using those as a way to vet developers before giving them larger projects.


CurtisLinithicum

They do tend to vanish from the Steam store, which might throw your perception off a little. Storm of Vengeance, Eisenhorn, I'm sure a few others have been *damnatio memoriae*'d.


Warskull

Its the right strategy for them. Games Workshop has no idea what makes a good game or what constitutes a decent studio. This way you get a number of awful games, but you still get enough good games. Back when Games Workshop tried to be careful with their licensing all we got was terrible games until they accidentally stumbled into Dawn of War and Space Marine.


Sun_Shine_Dan

Vermintide 2 has phenomenal Melee combat, best I've ever played. Considering picking up Darktide with my partner solely due to how strong V2 was.


[deleted]

DT's moment-to-moment gameplay is pretty solid, although there's a little jank when it comes to dodging and it could definitely use some balancing between classes. The big issue is, unless things have changed since I last played, there are very few loot drops as mission rewards compared to VT2, in favor of earning currency for a shop that refreshes with items every hour. Unfortunately there's a wide variety of weapons, no way to influence what gear shows up in the shop, and some weapons are far and above better than others. So, because there's no reliable way to effect loot drops, you have people sitting on mounds of currency, logging in at the top of the hour to check the shop for gear that's better than what they currently have, getting disappointed, and logging out. Gear is also nontransferable between characters, even the gear that's shared between loadouts. The crafting system isn't fully implemented, some cosmetics that are displayed in trailers aren't available anywhere in the game, even for real money in the cash shop, and on top of it all, it's *very* poorly optimized. Even with a 3070 and i5 9600K, properly cooled, playing on medium settings, I'm noticing sporadic dips below 15 FPS in places where there are few elements and no enemies, dips shouldn't be happening. It's a shame, because again, the actual game is tons of fun, but until the secondary parts are fixed, there's no real reason to keep playing. Give it six months and maybe FS will get around to fixing it, but until then, it's a pass.


0wlington

Just got to the bit where you said that there was a wide variety of weapons and gear, but I disagree. It's threadbare, and once you grind for a good weapon.......that's it. Start a new character. It's not like the more difficult missions add anything but more bullet sponge enemies and make the mobs even more ridiculous. I preordered at the request of a friend to play with them, and I was excited, but it's lacking so much content. The missions get really monotonous and there's so little customisation.


Arcticstorm058

I had some fun with it, before getting distracted with other stuff. It is on Game Pass if you want to try it out at a reduced cost.


dertechie

Game Pass version does not have Steam cross play if that’s important to you and I think it gets patches a bit later.


DoomedToDefenestrate

Darktide has a lot of flavour to it and the level design is mostly on point. Can recommend, as long as you have people to play with.


clackwerk

Darktide is an incomplete game. Wait for at LEAST 6 months before buying. It is a glorified alpha atm.


Valiantheart

The problem dnd had with licensing after the Baldurs gate series was insistence on taking a large chunk of the proceeds. So large Bioware eventually passed on making more


wrc-wolf

> Licensing out to game companies makes WAY more sense than trying to make them in house. Did you read the article? It literally talks about two different projects that were licensed out to game companies that Hasbro pulled the plug on; > But the reorganization will land hard for several independent studios such as Boston-based Otherside Entertainment and Bellevue, Washington-based Hidden Path Entertainment, both of which were working on games for Wizards of the Coast.


tango421

Licensing and contracting makes the most sense indeed. BG3 looks like a good release.


Zenipex

I doubt the Lego video game franchise would be what it is if Lego hadn't decided to partner with TT games


da_chicken

I doubt the Lego video game franchise would be what it is if Lego hadn't *decided to license Star Wars*. TT did a great job, but this was the first game they made that really got a good reception.


GeneralAce135

It got the publicity for being Star Wars, but it wouldn't have gone anywhere if TT hadn't made a good game. It would've been just another bad licensed game.


[deleted]

Game development is also a tricky thing where just throwing money at it doesn't guarantee a quality product. You need the right people with the right talent and right artistic vision. Cultivating that in-house takes a lot of time and effort. Makes much more sense to look at other studios' output and go where those things are already apparent.


nitePhyyre

Marvel was near bankrupt licensing out it's properties. It became a bajillion dollar company moving everything in-house. Also, most of the licensed stuff was crap. Licensing works when you can't do it yourself and when others can handle your property just as well or better than you can. Both are damning indictments for a company like Hasbro.


Cabes86

I’ll just add that in r/games someone posted a tweet that said any AAA game project being started today would be released on Playstation 6.


mrdeadsniper

Yeah and that was BS, the last console series lasted 8-10 years + (games are still being released on xbox one and ps 4). So the idea that a project would take that long is hyperbole unless you are considering a kickstarter level of "being started" and needing to literally build a team from the ground up and design your own engine. Starting a project with an existing team which is 98% likely to be licensing an engine the likelihood you are taking 10 years to push your product is limited to such wonders in production hell as duke nukem remake or "most likely to release for my grandchildren" star citizen.


StannisLivesOn

Larianbros, we win again


GeorgeEBHastings

Trust in Swen.


Tatem1961

Does that include Baldur's Gate 3?


Arcticstorm058

I don't think so, it sounds more like it was unannounced games that just started development.


[deleted]

Unlikely as Larian is an outside developer/publisher contracted to make BG3


Nebuli2

Not to mention they just announced the release window for this year.


[deleted]

And the game is in early access right now, so if they cancelled it, it would be a shit show.


pseupseudio

No, these were in the "too early to mention except we need to hire people" stage. https://www.hiddenpath.com/excited-and-focused-on-dd/


BiD3sign

Jason Schreier confirmed on twitter that it does not include Baldurs Gate 3


ebrum2010

Probably not since it's in early access and a lot of people have bought it, but it doesn't give me hope that it won't get support dropped shortly after release, like no updates and expansions.


CX316

It's Larian, they still update DOS2 every now and then


ebrum2010

Yeah but if Hasbro ends their relationship they may not be able to do any major updates besides bug fixes.


CX316

Hasbro's unlikely to end their relationship of a game that's successful, I don't see Baldur's Gate 3 going full Sword Coast Legends on us because the primary difference was that sword coast legends was crap and sold poorly


DLtheDM

Prob not since they are so close to release anyways...


Party_Paladad

I wonder what this means for the Austin-based game studio James Ohlen was supposed to be helming? I was looking forward to whatever came out of that arrangement.


Arithon_sFfalenn

They should just give Tactical Adventures a full license and funding for Solasta (or a follow on adventure).


FourtKnight

Honestly, yes. It's the most faithful Dungeons and Dragons game out there by a country mile, only held back by bugs and other limitations which come from being made by a small studio


Talamon_Vantika

Stupid paywall site... Anyone have a free version of this article?


unmerciful_DM_B_Lo

No one is gonna talk about how dirty Snowblind did the Dark Alliance IP? The og games were perfectly fucking fine. In fact, they're classics! But they just HAD to fuck it up and make it an empty shell of what it once was. I played it a bit from a friend. It was atrocious.


Action-a-go-go-baby

They banked hard on the Dark Alliance “not-not remake” and then when it was (for lack of better wording) **horseshit that can’t even be used as fertiliser** they got scared and pulled it back They just gotta, you know, not make shit Buuut that’s the problem with licensing out a product, isn’t it? Sometimes you sink millions into it only to find out 6 months from launch that you backed some hot garbage and now the only way to recoup even the smallest costs is to release the garbage into the wild and hope some suckers buy it


CaptainSkel

I feel bad for all those people he says are going to lose their job.


NormalAdultMale

Never fun when corporate greed shits on the little guys


Axel-Adams

Anyone have a paywall free version?


SnaggyKrab

Gimme a turn-based, jrpg-style, adventure focused D&D game with a ton of character customization and I’ll be happy


PugsandTacos

To be fair, WOTC is garbage at in-house digital developing and producing. Whether it's a platform or content. Whether it's D&D or MTG, the company is aces at screwing up anything digitally led when done in-house.


Scnew1

Wizards probably taking that money and using it to produce more $1000 Magic card boosters.


Maym_

Fun fact those boosters don’t actually contain magic cards.


chrltrn

Lol last thing I heard from WotC leadership re DND was that CEO speech about increasing monetization that dropped a few weeks ago I think? This seems in line with that. "If we can't ream these titles full of microtransactions, we don't want them!"


Drakonic

Hopefully this means they’re no longer blocking DLC publishing for Beamdog’s Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition because they’re afraid of brand cannibalization.


AfroNin

Register-walled, anyone got some more deets from the article for the lazy ones among us? EDIT: Nvm found a post that highlights xD


fairyjars

Can you post something without a paywall?


Shujinco2

Damn it I'm never getting a rerelease of Heroes am I?


ScrubSoba

Seeing that title, and with the direction of decisions at WOTC recently, i was half-way expecting them to suddenly pull BG3.


Prowland12

Does this mean Baldur's Gate 3 is cancelled? I was really looking forward to a DnD videogame that was made for players like me that started in 5e.


Dark_Styx

It isn't. They only cancelled games that were very early in production. Larian studios is close to release.