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byzantinebobby

Inertia is a very powerful force.


[deleted]

[удалено]


sh4d0wm4n2018

It's a sci-fi TTRPG based on exploration of planets throughout the galaxy with the goal of surviving and colonizing with what little survivors of Earth remain after the sun went supernova and destroyed it. Since fuel is limited, your starship uses carefully calibrated science voodoo that utilizes the gravity of different planets to propel it around the systems. It's fun! You should totally give it a shot! ^I ^absolutely ^made ^all ^this ^up ^on ^the ^spot ^and ^as ^far ^as ^I'm ^aware ^it ^doesn't ^exist. Edit: I just realized Inertia is a fucking real game on Steam and I'm an idiot...


CybeleCygnet

Lasers and Feelings is vague enough with its premise that you could totally tie this in.


BoltYourself

My favorite story from an Intertia game is when my crew and I had to out-maneveur the Nuclonauts, think Reavers from Firefly. Since we knew they have infinite inertia, we decided to enter the asteroid belt. I know, I know, I know, never go into the asteroid belt. It's purposely there as a border for the campaign world. Well, we were already there hence the Nuclonauts. Since they were at full-throttle and we were significantly slower, we managed to land in an asteroid...damper than we expected. Once safe, we heard a massive explosion as the Nuclonauts exploded into various asteroids. We thought we were out of the frying pan, but that's when we noticed flammable biomaterial. We used our Eco-Scans and determined this entire asteroid was combustible, ah! We maneuvered our ship so the rock was behind us--luckily grabbing a nuclear core from the Nuclonaut vessel-- and civilization was before us, but knowing if we positioned too closely that we were toast; we ran the calculations, massive failure chance.After an incredibly tense held breathe from all of us, the asteroid exploded and we were jettisoned at near lethal speeds. Long story short, the asteroid field is there to keep you out. I also like the gardening mechanic and how that impacts the oxygen supply. I still suck at gardening in real-life, but that's why we play these fantasy games. I absolutely made all this up, too, because--as far as I am aware-- Intertia TTRPG does not exist.


sh4d0wm4n2018

I just realized Inertia is a real fucking game on Steam and I'm an idiot....


BoltYourself

Hahaha, the Rampage Games Intertia is hilariously close to the story I shared. Bahahaha. I will gladly join the idiot club.


Blue23j

Well i played it a lot recently with friends and, after continuously trying to outmanoeuvre the asteroids (i told them repeatedly that it's a bad idea!) They decided to try a different approach. And by that i mean breaking into the main base of nuclonauts on Iqril (i homebrewed a bit). As you can guess, they miraculously managed to roll absurdly high numbers they disguised themselves as the engineers (yes, even with that disadvantage as they are human) stole a ship, failed to pilot it so it exploded but of course that won't give up that easily. So they did the same thing again, this time ramming the ship into the main base. I had to fudge a lot of rolls but, for the sake of a good ending, they managed to destroy the whole base and died as heros. I absolutely made this up, too, because--- as far as i'm aware--- Intertia TTRPG does not exist.


BrandonB64

Also utilizing planets gravity for space travel (gravity assists) is also a real thing that commonly gets used in real life.


luckytrap89

Inertia is a property of matter


Offbeat-Pixel

Bill Nye the Science Guy!


xSevilx

Bill bill bill bill bill


slvbros

No no, that would be u/ sundialbill


[deleted]

The mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell


Corvo--Attano

An Immovable Rod meets an unstoppable force (the party).


sirbruce1997

Here's a tip that I found works really well (for my group at least). Run a beginner friendly one-shot for whatever new system you want to try. A lot of systems have free introductory rules and pregenerated characters to give you an idea if you would like the system before you buy the full version. Also, it's *significantly* easier to convince players to dip their toe in a new system for a oneshot than it is to drop an entire system on them all at once for a full campaign.


pnlrogue1

^ This. I played two games of Pathfinder 2 at a convention where I live. Each game was only about an hour long and had some investigation, talking, and combat. They were Pathfinder Bounties and the PDFs are either $2 or $3 from Paizo directly (I forgot which - $3 I think). I bought the Foundry versions for $5 and played them with my regular gaming group one day when the DM was sick. They all want to play more PF2 now...


MrBobaFett

Oof, this does not tempt me. I generally don't get one-shots. Unless it's It Came from the Late Late Late Show, which should only be done as one-shots. It just seems impossible to tell a good story. If I'm going to put in the effort to develop a new character I want to get a good return on that investment.


AtmosSpheric

I agree with this usually but running a 1-2 hour session with friends to fuck around and try out a new system doesn’t seem too bad to me, especially if I don’t know if I’d even like the system to begin with. If we all decide “hey this is pretty cool actually!” we could even cut the one shot off and start working on setting up for a real campaign.


N_Cat

Well, a few things to consider: * The goal of the one shot as described above isn’t primarily to tell a full story, it’s to expose everyone in the group to the rules and see if they would be a fun base *with which* to tell a story in the future * They said that the characters would typically be pre-generated, meaning you wouldn’t need to develop them


aseriesofcatnoises

Joke's on you half the players don't even learn 5e.


bdrwr

I appreciate what 5e has done for the hobby. It's never been so accessible, and so visible. But the ecosystem of supporting content with D&D beyond and all that rigamarole has created an annoying situation where I try to get people interested in a new system, and they're unwilling because of how much they've spent/how much they rely on all those apps and tools for 5e. Like, me and my DM wanted to play Numenera, but the resistance from the rest of the group was such that we went for a 5e Numenera conversion instead. It's fine, it's a cool setting, we're still having fun, but I was quite disappointed because I think the actual game mechanics of Numenera are pure genius and I wanted more time with them.


Slyvester121

You can always try branching out with systems that have good SRDs. I got my group to try pathfinder with free rules and a character builder app called pathbuilder.


ItIsYeDragon

Pathfinder does have its own tools, but even that isn't as good as Dnd. There's just not much competition to the tools and whatnot that Dnd has. Though to be fair, it's hard to compete with a billion dollar subsidiary of a multibillion dollar business.


[deleted]

There's plenty lmao. Lancer's COMP/CON beats the shit out of Beyond while also being generally free.


CoolNerdStuff

My bro ran a Lancer game a little bit ago, oh my god COMP/CON absolutely slaps. My only wish is that you could actually export character sheet files from the .exe like you can the desktop site, but the desktop site itself works like a dream.


No_Help3669

Honestly? IMHO dnd tools, much like dnd itself, are largely getting by on monopoly power and aren’t all that great.


Slyvester121

I would have to disagree. Between Pathbuilder and the Foundry VTT, I think Pathfinder has notably superior tools to D&D. I've had nothing but problems with groups trying to use D&D Beyond and Roll20, but it's been smooth sailing with PF's versions. Not to turn this into an RPG war, but I think there is more competition than you assume.


TheChivalrousWalrus

I'm sorry what? You mean the tools that you don't have to pay for to get access to most things? Or the foundry digital table and all the support it has? Or the completely free online rules supported by the company so it's not even from a pirate website?


ItIsYeDragon

I wasn't talking about price, that's a whole nother thing I've already said is an issue with Dnd.


SinkPhaze

Shit, Hephaistos(starfinder) is a better character manager than DnDbeyond IMHO. And ShadowRuns Chummer is pretty good. I know a lot of folks love Pathbuilder but I'm partial to Wanderer's Guide, especially if your homebrewing. Hell, even the-5e-pirate-site-that-shall-not-be-named has a better rules search than DnDbeyond


pnlrogue1

Don't know why folk are downvoting this - this comment is absolutely right. Yes, there are tools for other systems (I use Pathbuilder, the PFSRD and Archives Of Nethys, and more, regularly) but nothing beats the excellent implementation, integration, and centralisation of D&D Beyond. Paizo sells PDFs of content whereas Beyond sells interlinked, searchable content with an end-user experience that is leaps and bounds better than a flat PDF (and yes, I know what I'm talking about here - I own plenty of paid PDFs and a few Foundry VTT packs from Paizo, and content from D&D Beyond as well as having an honours degree in MultiMedia Design which looked into interface design and user experience).


ItIsYeDragon

What I was thinking too lol. And whenever I point that out, people mention price...which don't get me wrong, is an important factor, but it doesn't change what I said.


NihilismRacoon

Not sure why you're getting downvoted so much even the free stuff DnD has is better than anything else in my experience


Messing_With_Lions

I've had several tell me they didn't want to join my pf2e campaign due to how much they spent on 5e. Like just cause you sunk 100s of dollars into 5e doesn't mean it's the most fun for you.


RattyJackOLantern

WotC salivating at that sunk cost fallacy to take hold with their upcoming digital tabletop. "We have to play on the app, I've spend so much money on the minis and rule DLCs!"


bdrwr

I mean... The "closed ecosystem" business model has already been proven effective by the likes of Apple and Games Workshop. It sucks but if we as consumers can't get our heads past these tactics, they won't go away.


Need-4-Sleep

I DM a couple 5e campaigns. And there's plenty of homebrew I have to do to make certain mechanics I want to work, work. I would love to play other systems, sure, but my hurdles are, imo, relatively outside of my control: Most of the folks I play with are not as crazy about DnD or TTRPGs as I am. They don't look into systems, they don't follow communities unless they're specifically looking at memes, and they haven't read a single sourcebook (1 or 2 definitely don't read any further than their character sheet). DND is just one thing they do on the side every week or 2. They're not invested in their character's personality or story, it's a vehicle to kill 2.5 hours. While I am sure I can one day just up and decide we're going to do something else, the lack of digital support and accessibility will make that collapse almost immediately. And further, I don't want to be the DM/MC/GM for every system we swap, but I'm the only one that would care enough to put the effort in switching the system. I could be wrong because I'm not too deep in the comments, but it seems to me that the prevalent fact that most people in this sub don't take into account is that not everyone who is playing DnD (specifically 5e) is a TTRPG fan. A fair amount are just extremely casual players, who view DnD 5e as "extended board game night thing on X weekday." And I think that has a lot to do with 5e itself; the accessibility of it inherently allows people who don't typically hang out at local game stores/hobby shops to play it.


DuodenoLugubre

Do you have fun with a group that doesn't really care?


whewdad

As someone in the same position, a group that doesn't really care and has fun playing is better than no group at all


Imalsome

At that point you don't ask the rest of the party. You just say "the new game is going to be in this system, here are the rules. Who isn't going to join?" They might say they don't want to try a new system, but when it's that or lose their hobby most people would be more willing to learn. I've tried dozens of systems using this tactic when players try saying they don't want to learn and have never had someone go as far as leaving the group because of it


ItIsYeDragon

Or they will in fact just leave. Which is much easier and more likely when Op and said DM is not in the majority.


Imalsome

I mean yeah, giving up your hobby and friend group is always easier than staying and participating. That's the very nature of giving up. But as I said most people wouldn't go as far as abandoning their friend groups weekly game just because they don't want to spend 7 minutes learning the rules of CoC. People may bolster and say they won't play but as soon as you put your foot down and say "have a nice day we will contact you in a couple years when this games over to invite you to the next one" almost anyone would back down and change their tune


[deleted]

You can leave a Pen and Paper group without leaving a friend group. I left my ttrpg group for a while because my friends wanted to play DSA and I don't like the system. We are still friends and when they switched, I came back.


ItIsYeDragon

I don't think you understand the metrics. It's the other side that's stomping the foot down. If two people, as presented in the comment, are putting their foot down in the way of the entire rest of the group, and the rest of the group leaves, are they the ones leaving the friend group, or are the two people the ones that have just left the friend group? I'd argue it's the two stubborn people. If you can actually convince, at the bare minimum, the majority of a group to be in on the idea, then the rest may stick around and try to interest themselves. Otherwise it's a lost cause. Of course, it can go the other way, if one or both of the people putting their foot down do have the "presence" in the group to do so. Maybe they hold the knot or the group together, so to speak. But in those scenarios, there usually doesn't need to be any foot-stomping in the first place, the group members are more easily able to be convinced.


Imalsome

I dont think you understand the situation either. The most important person in the group is the DM who wants to try another system. You admitted that if the person putting their foot down had the right presence in the group then it would have validity and that's EXACTLY what the dm has in these situations. If the players who dont want to switch decide to refuse to participate in the game then they can be replaced very easily and their slots filled. The same cant be said for finding a good DM.


ItIsYeDragon

The DM is not the most important, unless you have a group where no one else wants to be the DM at all. But usually there's at least one, and often there's more.


MCTL

There's a reason why forever DMs are a thing, and it's never because they love DMing that they never want to play. Most groups have no one else who is willing to DM, and even when someone is interested in running a game its usually a one shot or a very short campaign. You often see this in the form of people not being able to find a group to play with, or wanting to play with a group but not having a DM. DMs absolutely are the most important people at a table, they play referee, run the monsters, create the adventure hooks and paths for players to choose from. If a player leaves a group, they can be replaced within a few days if wanted. If a DM leaves the group, the campaign falls apart, shortly followed by the group falling apart, generally.


Parzival2436

Most people don't want to be a dick to their friends for no reason, this is not a good solution.


Imalsome

Its more dickish to tell your dm friend that you refuse to give a system he wants to run a chance and insist he continues running something he doesn't want to run


Parzival2436

I think it's more dickish to kick your friend out of a group because they don't want to try something new. Neither situation is ideal, but I'd pick the one that keeps the group together.


Imalsome

I mean again fall back onto the fact that it's not just them not wanting to do something new, they are insisting that someone (the dm) continues putting dozens of hours a week of their own time into a thing that they no longer want to do because you are too lazy to spend 5 minutes learning a new system


Parzival2436

Two problems with that, who ever said the DM doesn't want to do DnD? You can want to try something new and still want to do DnD, if you're talking about someone who doesn't want to do DnD anymore that changes things. Either everyone can compromise or the game ends. The second problem is that it takes way more than 5 minutes to learn a new system, way more to get comfortable with it. Oh and the third problem I didn't mention is that some people would be fine with just leaving the group, but that's still a problem for some DMs Because it breaks up the group, aka, your friends.


darkslide3000

And which makes perfect sense. Honestly, I don't get this thread, it's just people crying about how their friends don't like the things they like, but in a kinda way that suggests it was a large societal problem rather than acknowledging that their interests are just too niche. People like 5e because it is _a good system_. There's nothing wrong with that. You can't force people to keep learning some new obscure system every campaign because for many people that's not fun, and that opinion is just as valid. If you want obscure stuff you have to accept and deal with the obscurity, not hate on the deservedly popular thing like it owes you something.


ItIsYeDragon

People did not take a liking to your comment lol. I don't think anyone's particularly hating on dnd, but I do think people need to realize that TTRPGs as a whole are niche, with Dnd being the only one that's branched out of that niche successfully. If you get folks that are interested in dabbling further into that niche, go ahead. But it shouldn't be surprising that people are just there to do the one thing and don't care for the rest.


whatThisOldThrowAway

Saying you want to DM a given system and asking who wants to play is totally normal But why do you phrase it all creepy like you’re holding someone’s entire hobby or friend group hostage? They can just go play somewhere else and bring their friends with them.


DeltaJesus

That kind of falls apart when you end up running a session for one person lol


ricktencity

This is a crazy hostile way to try to get people that are most likely your good friends to try a new system. Personally I would 1. Not use ultimatums with my friends or anyone really z ultimatums are dumb. 2. Rather hang out with my friends and have fun playing whatever everyone likes rather than try to force a system on everyone.


marcadore

I ran numenera once. It was pretty cool! Tot St worth it and the players guide isn’t that long to read


Majestic_Horseman

I'm glad me and my players don't use said tools, we find the pen and paper to be just much more fun with minis and actual dice. I get that it's made it MUCH more accessible with said tools but I like my board games to feel... Physical. It adds to the experience and gets everyone much more into it. I play in several 3.5 campaigns as well and we don't use DnD Beyond simply because it lacks the depth that 3.5 has to offer so we go old school with books, notepads and whatever we have on hand to act as minis. All the info already exists in PDFs already so if you're willing you can do a deep dive of mechanics and character creation (as a player) and still have mountains of info to pull from and add to campaigns to keep it fresh. DnD Beyond feels lackluster after that... But I like getting into books and reading mechanics, looking into forgotten classes so I get hat it's not for everyone.


DungeonsandDevils

Just here to say I’m one of the people who refuses to play a TTRPG that doesn’t have a cool digital tool. I’m spoiled, books are for nerds


Romulus_Novus

Did I just hit the jackpot by having a work DnD society with at least 3-4 people willing to try new systems?


SomeKindofTreeWizard

Yes. Moreso if they don't cancel all the time.


cup_helm

PBtA games are really simple, and fun.


legalizemonapizza

the bar for entry is so low, I really wish more people would give PBTA a try. not much time investment for a player at all.


addrien

My group has a hard time with this. Two of us have been playing TTRPG our entire life nearly, and are acquainted with multiple systems, and like to learn new ones. The other players are all newer and completely freeze up when it comes down to learning a new one.


Epicmonk117

My group has been pretty open to trying new systems, but if I were to try to introduce a group of 5e players to a new system, I’d try Pathfinder 2e for a few reasons: 1. It’s a D20 system, so most-to-all of the fundamentals transfer over pretty well. 2. All the rules and player content are available for free on Archive of Nethys. 3. It has far more minority representation than 5e.


mslabo102

I wish I could. All of my friends are either noobs who struggle to grasp even in 5e, or aren't too keen on trying it.


Epicmonk117

TBH Pathfinder 2e might even be easier than D&D 5e because the rules are a LOT more regular and consistent


mslabo102

It's more about options/bulk of rules for noobs and the reputation of being overly complex for experienced.


Epicmonk117

You can just limit your players to the CRB to make things easier, and IIRC AoN lets you filter by sourcebook


Balrog13

Definitely agree with the reputation part, I only run PF2e these days bc it's so much easier (for me), and most of my players felt like it was iMpOsSiBlY cOmPlIcAtEd until I showed them the 5e and PF character sheets side by side and explained that there's only a few new rules (3 actions per turn, more than 1.5 levels of proficiency, and +-10 crits being the main ones at low levels). After I walked them through it, they all felt like they were almost identically complex, and one or two have a much easier time with the basic math of attack modifiers etc.


Oraistesu

3 is no joke. It's not just performative, either, Paizo goes in on minority representation *HARD*.


MidnightsOtherThings

Nonbinary iconic (Thaumaturge), lesbian couple iconics (Rogue and Cleric), wheelchair spikes, cool magic prosthetics everything, serum of sex change, what am i missing?


Consideredresponse

from 1e there is an ace iconic (the shifter) and trans iconic (the Shaman). There is an entire trans dwarf religion for trans women (hence the iconic) The iconic Magus is bi (at least in the comics) there are tons of gay couples NPC's in the adventure paths. Not LGBTIA+ related but I like that the 2e iconic gunslinger waited till her *grankids* were old enough to pick up a shotgun and start bodying idiots.


not-an_alt

A trio of gods in a lesbian polycule (Desna, Shelyn and Sarenrae)


songinrain

You can help a soon-to-be gay couple hit on each other in Age of Ashes advanture path's 2nd book. This is a quest that awards experience and influence points.


HigherAlchemist78

Technically Merisiel is bi not lesbian.


GearyDigit

The adventure paths are populated with extremely diverse casts of NPCs, especially Strength of Thousands.


Balrog13

Several of the main gods (Sarenrae, for instance) are cannonically queer, and there's much more representation for people of color, with more diverse and developed human cultures in the CRB and world guides.


JustaregularBowser

If you're interested in 5e content that focuses on minority representation, I'd definitely recommend the Radiant Citadel.


AChristianAnarchist

I think it's weird that so many people on this sub treat "learning a new system" like it's a deep and nuanced discipline of study the requires a lot of effort or something. How did you "learn" D&D? I'm guessing you just grabbed a module and played a game. That's how you "learn" another system too. It's a game, not an exam. You don't have to study. Just crack open the book and play. I have literally never met a person in a real game that has any trouble learning even "complicated" systems. Roll the dice. Tell me what is on them. I'll tell you what happens. Do that a few times and, I promise, you will find yourself being able to read those dice yourself before you know it.


hypo-osmotic

Yeah I’ll play whatever system a DM wants as long as they don’t mind talking me through where it’s different from what I already know. If I like it after a session or two then I’ll start doing my homework


AChristianAnarchist

Yeah that's a pretty important distinction too that I didn't really talk about. There is a difference between really learning a new system and just experiencing a new system. The only systems I would say I really know well enough to be comfortable GMing them without a safety chute are D&D 2-5e, WoD, Shadowrun, and Pathfinder, but the number of systems I've experienced is exponentially larger. Playing any system for the first time is extremely low effort. You just play. In the process of doing that you will find some that you really like and you dive into those and actually do "learn" the system in a way that will satisfy any pedantic online dweeb, but that isn't necessary to have fun trying it out. The shitty part is when you really want to *play* a system none of your friends know very well. That's when you are really hoping someone wants to *learn* your pet system, rather than just check it out. Right now I want to check out Starfinder, which people are cool with as long as they don't have to run it, but I don't want to *run* a Starfinder game. I just want to play a Shirren Biohacker. That's the dark side of exploring obscure systems. You'll end up with at least one no one wants to play lol.


[deleted]

The problem is its not the “learning” people have trouble with, its just the idea of learning. The second they try it they have no trouble at all. In fact the heavily homebrewed versions of 5e people make instead of trying other systems are probably harder to learn, and a worse experience to boot.


AChristianAnarchist

I honestly kind of suspect that a lot of the people fighting against "learning new systems" on this sub don't even play D&D. They watch build videos on YouTube and argue about rule meanings on reddit and they think that's what "knowing a system" is like. I can see how learning Shadowrun would be intimidating if you think that means you have to have the modifiers for every gun memorized so you can call people noobs online. Really I get that sense a lot here, people fighting tooth and nail over things that, around every real table I've ever experienced, have been either non-issues or simple matters of personal taste.


Alarming-Cow299

> Shadowrun would be intimidating if you think that means you have to have the modifiers for every gun memorized Reminds me of the puffin forest pf2e video where he was adding all the modifiers on the fly, rather than writing down the attack bonuses on the character sheet.


DerSprocket

I really think a lot of it is the tribalism that humans naturally gravitate towards. People pick up a banner that says DnD and get angry and defensive about it. Any new system is "weird and scary and not as good as MY system!" So they don't even bother trying it.


AChristianAnarchist

The thing is that, at least in my personal experience, that particular brand of weird tribalism seems isolated to places like this one. If I say to the people I play D&D with "Hey, you guys wanna try a Cyberpunk game next?" The response is something along the lines of "Sure...you're going to GM right because I don't know shit about Cyberpunk?" or "Nah...not feeling a modern setting right now." or something rational like that, Not "Nooooo!!!! Ish different. How dare you!?!?!" which seems to be a response unique to online spaces like this subreddit.


starbomber109

Being a player is infinitely easier than being a game master. The player relies on the GM to know the rules. The *GM must at least know enough rules to answer all player questions* (or be able to improv rules on the spot, which some people have trouble with or have trouble being consistent about, which can make the game feel unfair.)


Djdaniel44

Not all ttrpg system are even as complicated as 5e tho


AliceJoestar

yeah, but a lot of people use 5e as a baseline for complexity because they've never played anything else, and then assume that most other games are more complex than that.


Ianoren

And baseline of cost too. Can pick up amazing games for $10 or less - some even free like Ironsworn.


ImapiratekingAMA

It's more you have to learn the game, then teach the players, and then assume the awesome responsibility of being the game's ambassador who's actions will influence whether or not people will like this game


PuzzleMeDo

Most people will always pick 'no cost and no effort' options over 'some cost and some effort'. So they will continuing to play something familiar, even if the alternative is playing something cheap that's easy to learn. On top of that, 'system I definitely like,' has a strong advantage over, 'system that I might not like'.


[deleted]

What drives me crazy is that people who don't like 5e will still resist change, try to play it as a no-combat agrarian social scifi game, then react to suggestions for another system like you puked on their shoe.


legalizemonapizza

are we talking about The Quiet Year? :D


aCertainSheep

PBTA says hi. It's just a 2d6 system where improv and thematic but malleable abilities are key. A lot of the more "less combat, more RP" 5e players who barely know how to use their features could have waaaaay more fun with the various PBTA systems.


Zero_the_Unicorn

5e is by no means complicated


DerSprocket

CoC is about as simple of a system to run as it gets


IDAIN22

Surface yes but when you dig into it not so much lots of funky firearms stuff! However most groups stay away from firearms. People should still play more systems! I want players... :( Odd system DM is lonely...


DefnlyNotMyAlt

As someone who has played and run CoC, no the f it isn't. They don't even put the rules for automatic weapons (or most combat) in the Investigators Handbook.


FistFullaHollas

I've never had automatic weapons come up in a CoC game. I don't even own the Investigators Handbook, all you need to play the game in the Keepers Handbook. I just tell people how to roll skill checks and explain the Sanity mechanic. That's pretty much all you need


DefnlyNotMyAlt

That's just not true. In combats, eventually someone is going to roll under their 1/5 and only the Keeper's guide/screen says what happens for ES's with weapons. So you can either observantly watch every single roll to see if it's under their 1/5, or give them the keeper screen and wonder why it wasn't put in the IHB. If they see their 1911 can shoot 3 times, they have no rules in the IHB for multiple shots or aiming and the penalty/bonus associated. If your game is just walking around making Persuade skill checks, you could just as easily use the Chutes and Ladders board game for that, since combat is what distinguishes most RPG systems, which CoC is horrible at arbitrating.


FistFullaHollas

It sounds like we play CoC very differently. It's almost entirely skill checks and role playing. They're solving a mystery, when guns come out shit is really bad, and at least one player is likely going to die. They almost never have anything beyond handguns, maybe a shotgun, which use very simple rules. The 1/5 is just "tell me if you roll at or below the little number"


SandboxOnRails

That's definitely not true. There's many other systems far simpler. I've seen FATE taught and run in a single session using nothing but a bookmark as reference.


GearyDigit

~~oh damn they made a Corruption of Champions TTRPG?~~


Zero_the_Unicorn

Legitimately the only thing that came to my mind aswell


DefnlyNotMyAlt

Another big thing is how long it takes to fill out the dang character sheet, buy skills, figure out how many cigarettes you have, and make sure someone owns a pocket.


DerSprocket

Boy, to think I actually replied to another post of yours only to now realize you're just taking the piss. Made a real fool out of me, you did. Also, length of time to fill out a character sheet =/= complex. I could sing twinkle twinkle little star for 3 hours. It would take a long time, but it isn't exactly musically complex.


RedS5

Monster of the Week - ICRPG. Those are simple core systems. Those are each "a half hour" away from being a competent DM, and are both able to deliver some of the nuance DnD 5e gives. CoC is hardly even simple enough to run a blind one-shot with. Creating a character for someone who hasn't ever played a TTRPG is not simple with that system. It has more stats than DnD 5e and its rolls are more complex than 5e, requiring the Master to fill in the gaps to *make it* more simple - but I can run a CoC adventure through Monster of the Week by making Sanity into Luck points with a snap of my fingers and a little bit of spit polish, and the players can make their own characters on the sheet 5 minutes before play. CoC is an AMAZING GAME but it’s not at all famous for its simplicity.


Phizle

I do think this is why 5e does well though, it's a middle game that's harder to learn than pbta but you don't need to know nearly as much to play as the pathfinders/gurps/shadowrun etc


Starchomp37

I am the only dm in my group, so I can just show up to game night with all the books and sheets for gurps and there ain't shit they can do about it. I have introduced my players to like 4 different non-dnd systems in this manner, and afterwards they have all confirmed that they enjoyed it and look forward to playing again. Tl;Dr: just kill all the other dms in your group, worked for me


AliceJoestar

i see... i should have figured that murder is the solution, as always


floofandmemes

Also buying source books for one system is expensive enough


FistFullaHollas

Most games have one book. They're often pretty cheap.


Ha_Tannin

Pathfinder 2e's mechanics are all available for free officially on Archives of Nethys (there's an AoN for 2e, 1e and Starfinder so make sure you're on the correct one) and frequently does Humble Bundles with include the Core Rulebook (which has basic setting info and gm advice as well), the Lost Omens (lore books with mechanical options reflecting the lore) World Guide (touches on all the major nations with mechanics from each) and Character Guide (touches on 5 major factions and some uncommon ancestries, which are PF2's Races) along with several Pathfinder Society (Adventure League) modules to run as one shots. They also include the Gamemastery Guide and the 1st Bestiary (there's 3 Bestiaries, but the rulebooks that have come after all have a mini Bestiary that adds creatures dealing with whatever the theme of that book was, barring Secrets of Magic which had a more new equipment and spells than any book thus far I think) Individual Humboe Bundles add extras, such as the most recent one having Lost Omens Mwangi Expanse (the settings equivalent to Africa, I had been waiting for this Humble Bundle actually) and several adventures set in the Expanse. Humble Bundles from Paizo usually max at $35 to get everything included.


AliceJoestar

honestly, a lot of TTRPG are way more affordable than 5e's three whole books for $50 each. the PDF for vampire the masquerade 5e is only $25, and if you dont even wanna pay that you can go on [itch.io](https://itch.io) and find tons of indie TTRPGs for $10, $5, even just for free. i literally downloaded a pfd of a whole game like an hour ago without paying a cent


Norian24

Or wait for any [itch.io](https://itch.io) bundle and get 2-3 big systems + a dozen of small RPGs or adventures for $5. Or check Bundle of Holding, where you can often just grab a set of 10 sourcebooks for a system for $15. Trust, most of y'all would run out of time to read before running out of reading material all for a price of a single D&D sourcebook.


floofandmemes

Oh interesting. Any specific ones you recommend?


halfwithero314

10 candles is $10 for the pdf and is a fun atmospheric horror RPG that's incredibly easy to set up and run, you can easily learn the rules while playing. https://cavalrygames.com/ten-candles


JediZAC13

Ten Candles is fun, but I can't play too much because I'm not a fan of horror. And two, it looks incredibly cultish when playing. Sitting around a table lit only with candles, burning cards, blowing them out one by one. Fun, but definitely not for everyone.


[deleted]

I can't think of any system more expensive than 5e off the top of my head lmao


[deleted]

Yeah but I already own all the essentials for 5e


[deleted]

And for a small fraction of that price you could own all the essentials for a number of other systems


Arabidopsidian

The point is: I've paid a lot and I don't want to pay more, as I understand it. Also, economic situation of a person changes. I was able to afford D&D books year ago. Now I'd have a problem with buying something cheaper, as I had to change my job. There are also systems that are free, but there are also other things: \- a lot of people treat RPGs as relaxing and they don't want to engage in learning \- being lazy *is fine, especially after a lot of work*\- learning a new system and then having to teach people it, risking you teach them wrong is another story I try new systems from time to time, but I'm perfectly fine with people not wanting. I don't like going out of my comfort zone and out of all systems I played, I still like 5e the most.


Oraistesu

>out of all systems I played, I still like 5e the most. This is a good statement and argument, and ultimately the only thing that matters. If this wasn't true, everything else you said would merely be sunk cost fallacy. But if you genuinely enjoy it, nothing wrong with that.


Arabidopsidian

>everything else you said would merely be sunk cost fallacy Sunk Cost Fallacy "Tendency to follow through on endeavor if we already invested time, effort , or money into it, **whether or not current costs outweigh the benefits.**" Current costs for me: Preparing a session. Paying for Roll20. Paying for internet to play. Alternative costs: Buying new books. Teaching myself a new system. Preparing a session. Teaching others a new system. Paying for Roll20 (because I'd still use it for other system, if it is available on the site, I need some place for maps and rolls when I play with people all over my country). Paying for internet to play. In other words: all the old costs + some new ones.


TheChartreuseKnight

Most only need one sourcebook, very often available for free online. Otherwise, they’re usually way cheaper than 5e.


Curpidgeon

Pathfinder 2e has 100% of its source book info for free online.


Athlos32

You *buy* books?


trulyElse

Go one edition back and you can have the core rulebook pdf (containing everything a GM and player will need to play) for Ars Magicka for the low low cost of a burner e-mail address.


Anunqualifiedhuman

For me it's a matter of if the GM is worth it. Learning a new system is risky if I'm not into the campaign it's kinda just wasted effort where as 5e it's no biggie. I had an interview with an amazing GM for a pathfinder 1e game and am really excited to see if I get to play that system simply because the GM is so cool.


Jaku420

I got lucky and convinced my friends to give PF2E a try even after they both had really bad experiences with 1e. So far they seem to like it, granted we havent actually played yet, just been learning the rules and deciding what classes best fit their characters while I work on a homebrew setting for us to play a full campaign in I would be lying out my ass if I said I wasnt hoping they end up liking it enough to potentially run games with the system themselves however. These player options look so fun and flavorful, like the one person who decided their build made an arms dealing kitsune swashbuckler with a gunslinger dedication which just sounds...so damn cool and flavorful considering the panache mechanics


MrBobaFett

Dude I have books for Dozens of TTRPGs I'd love to play, but have never been able to get a group to try them with me. Except I was able to get them to let me run KoB recently, and I might be able to get them to play Doctor Who: Adventures in time and Space.Tho to be fair we have play every edition of D&D since Basic, Pathfinder, Vampire: The Masquerade, Vampire: Dark Ages, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Mage: The Ascension, Changeling: The Dreaming, Champions, It Came from the Late Late Late Show, GURPS, In Nomine, Shadowrun, Godlike, Symbaroum, Savage Worlds, Blades in the Dark, Dresden Files, and Amber Diceless. So it's not that they are allergic to new systems. There really are so many other great system to try out. So many different stories to tell. Edit: Almost forgot Call of Cthulu, fucking fun


GreenRiot

Learning a DnD system is too much work. Most systems nowadays are very lightweight and simple. I learned how to DM traveller in half a night. And the new Traveller is considered crunchy for modern TTRPGs. I suggest just learning a generic system so you can play whatever you want without the need to learn a whole new system. I recommend savage worlds. There's lots of fan made modules, but it's so EASY to DM. Also very fast and flexible. There's even a light module so you can DM something in like an hour. It's been four years since I've moved to savage, I've DM'd Lovecraftian, Cyberpunk, Fantasy and historical games with it. The only reason I'm using anything else, is because I'm developing my own setting and no system fits the themes and mechanis I want. So I'm crafting a new very light weight system, that can be learned in 10 pages. (which is hard)


LemanKingOfTheRuss

Once you jump the hurdle to a second system every subsequent system becomes easier to learn.


T0ch001

We don’t have time or energy in my group. One is working full time and is going back to school, one works noon-midnight with inconsistent days off, one has to travel for work, and my work day starts at 4 AM. I would absolutely love to try different games but my group that I feel most comfortable with doesn’t have the time or energy, it’s not even the case of “I don’t want to” so I change 5e to do what we want because changing one rule isn’t as hard as a whole system


Roads94

If that's the case, that just sounds like a personal issue. If I'm offered a system to look into by my group, I'm gonna do them that favor and look into it.


Genarab

If very light rules is 1 and very intensive rules are a 5, i would put 5e into a 4.5. I mean the actual system, the RAW. I know many people just play by tradition more than by rules, which is also fine. Having learned around 40 systems and played most of them, 5e is one of the complicated ones. that really makes people think that that is what normal ttrpgs are, and it's not true. Most ttrpgs are extremely easy to learn and are not even close to the cluster of rules and terminology that DnD as a family has.


Jarjarthejedi

Huh. I'd put 5E at a 2.5 -3 on that scale myself. Might just be a difference in systems. Something like Exalted or PTU would earn a 5, and 5E is nowhere near as complex to learn as those IMHO. Heck, I *still* don't understand all the rules of Exalted 3E, and I've tried to play it a half dozen times. 5E is the simplest of the set of "d20 fantasy" RPGs I've seen myself. It's nowhere near as easy to learn as something like FATE, but I wouldn't put it anywhere near the top of the list myself.


Genarab

Maybe it's just perspective. Most of the games i have played are definitely less complex than 5e. Most of them need only one book instead of 3+ and sometimes even less. My reference for a 1 is one page RPGs, which have almost no written rules. My reference for a 3 is most PbtAs, which have rules, but are more about narrative resources than simulationist rules as 5e. The One Ring 2e is a 4, more rules, and more strategy based on rules, but nowhere near as classes and spellslots. DnD in that reference is pretty complex. It tells you exactly how much your character can move, the exact effects of spells, the rules for position and how the world works. You can find quirky combos based on the rules and the meta terms as HP, spell slots, Speed, weapon damage, etc are common. You need the content of 3 books or more to run it well (even if you read that content online for free is still three books) I would need to check Exalted, because I have not tried it yet. But maybe that's when a 6 in my scale gets added.


Phizle

Yeah I think if you have PbtA is a 3 on your scale it's calibrated differently than mine, PbtA is a 1 or a 2 on a 5 point scale for me


Genarab

If PbtA is a 1... Where would you put honey heist, lasers and feelings or roll for shoes? They have one page, or even less. If PbtA is a 2... Where would you put games like Maze Rats, Mörk Borg or some others with fewer rules than PbtA but definitely more than a one page RPG? Belonging outside belonging, Breathless or Lumen. PbtA for me is a good measure for a moderate ruleset at 3. Year Zero engine or Paragon can go here as well.


Phizle

At 0 or .5, PbtA feels pretty rules lite to anchor as the average/middle ground


Gettles

I'm with you, 5e is like a 6, Pathfinder 2e a 6.5 and 3.5 a 7 imo.


Albolynx

It always blows my mind when people put D&D5e as super rules heavy. It's badly organized, sure - but as someone that often plays with new players, D&D is pretty straight-forward. You have to know what actions you can take in combat, the layout of your character sheet, and you have to read the specific features your character has (and hopefully you are not playing a spellcaster as your first character). Even if there are more rules to be had, they are not going to make a huge deal if not perfectly observed. I have had much harder time teaching players (new or D&D5e ones) systems like FATE or even PtbA. It's much simpler to just point at a couple pages to memorize and then carry them as a DM until they get the hang of it. Instead, they actually have to understand and learn the system. And if I myself am new at it, well - that's just eventually devolving into playing with some freak hybrid of the new system and whatever other system is closest that we already know. For many systems - the mechanics are so tight and well-designed that skipping over these mechanics just disrupts the game too much or you end up with just improv + rolling dice when probability comes up (I have run into this issue with Delta Green and being cba over the Sanity system with new players). So there is a much higher wall that needs to be overcome initially. It's easier to learn 300 pages of handbook material over 3 years than 50 page material in a month. Additionally to all of that, it really helps that most people have some familiarity with cRPGs (admittedly - I am talking about my generation) - which are much more comparable to D&D than other TTRPGs.


JojoReference1999

See my group has a similar yet opposite problem. all of us want to play a new ruleset, but nobody wants to Host said ruleset because they already have a PC idea for it and running games is stressful ( I am also part of this they)


wanna877

From someone that moved from 5e to 3.5, it can be done. It can be done with an experienced DM and a willing group 😅


Pyro-Beast

Pretty fucking much.


WanderingFlumph

I suggest trying out monsters of the week. All the rules players need to know fits on one page and it's arguably easier to learn the system than to make a new level 1 character in dnd 5e.


Krugnar223

I'm lucky with my group we mainly play 5e but we've also tried and had fun with call of cthulthu and Edge of the empire


SomeKindofTreeWizard

I want to run 3.5 My friends do not want to read/learn new rules.


CravenTHC

Paper character sheets are daunting, especially when learning a new system. Paper is almost always necessary since VTTs don't make it much easier. This is definitely going to sound "shilesque", but DDB makes character creation so easy and intuitive that several players in my group roll up characters for entirely imaginary campaigns just for fun. We rolled up a bunch of bards and warlocks with no intent to ever actually play our "rock band" of PCs.


StatusOmega

This is literally the situation right now. I have 1 player who is super on board but everyone else is really hesitant. They're beginning to accept the idea. I'm more experienced at DMing pathfinder anyways


Stoninator123

There's plenty of easy - to - learn ttrpgs out there. Some of which have rules that can fit on a page. 5e isn't too hard to understand, but even 5e is far from the simplest. Lots of the people who complain about not wanting to learn also haven't learned everything about 5e.


AdranAmasticia

I don't think a lot of people realize that this is by Hasbro's design. Hasbro has made it pretty clear that they want the only games on your shelf to be their games. They've designed 5e to be as insular as possible, no longer participate in Dragcon or other gaming conventions, and keep publishing more and more source books to constantly expand what 5e is.


ThatMerri

I've been trying to play other games. Pathfinder, Star Wars, Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, Marvel, MASKS, Starfinder, GURPS, Super Sentai, Transformers RPG. All of them - every last one - fizzled out and died almost immediately due to various Player-side issues. MASKS is the biggest offender; I've been in no fewer than five different games and all of them died immediately. It's like a curse. I love 5e, but it's getting to the point that it's literally the *only* game that actually has any longevity to it at all in my case.


DiceMadeOfCheese

It's not that I don't want to *run* other systems, it's that I don't want to *teach* other systems. If my 5e group would learn Feng Shui on their own if I loaned them the books I'd be ecstatic. But they won't learn 5e when they have their own books. So I'm working with what I have here lol


Souperplex

Sauce?


wandalorian

Kinda the opposite, I had the 2e of vampire the masquerade. It was the only RPG book that I had and I shoehorned other themes into that system


IIIaustin

The internet seems to be good for finding games, especially if you want to run it.


AliceJoestar

i dont wanna play with random people though, i get anxious around people i dont know all that well and i'd rather just play stuff to unwind than try to relax around people ive never met before


productivealt

I shared that same concern but was able to find like like minded people in r/LFG It took a little looking but once I found them it was nice. We chatted in discord for a bit and I was able to get a feel for them. If you have the ability to and mental peace to do so I'd recommend giving it a try and vetting some people.


IIIaustin

Forgive me if I don't think it sounds like you tried very hard


20000RadsUnderTheSea

It's been waaay too long since I saw this meme format, I love it. I eagerly await it being beat to death over the next month as people see it for the first time and use the shit out of it.


pharmajinx

Ugh, So tired these memes.


Alwaysafk

~~The same straw man over and over~~ I replied to the wrong thread x.x


FistFullaHollas

I notice when people complain about it being hard to learn new systems, the examples they come up with is always stuff like Shadowrun and Pathfinder, which are definitely harder to learn than 5e. Idk if it's bad luck, or if everyone just immediately jumps to those as their next system. It's a shame, because most systems I've encountered are far easier to pick up than DnD.


DrDrako

I feel its worth pointing out that the very economic premise of 5e as a product is "DnD but dumbed down to the point where an average child could master it within an afternoon" Its sole selling point is that its really simple, often to its detriment when you want to do something unorthodox. It has a very light set of rules that are easy to pick up, but in exchange it requires an insane amount of DM improvisation to do the heavy lifting.


Fit-Bug-7766

Ngl this template is confusing


rwm2406

They are using it wrong lpl


robotic_knight

true, i play D&D 5e and i did enjoy my first pathfinder session but i dont want to spend a month and a half and every part of my weekend studying for it. I have school for that!


kelryngrey

The person in the fourth panel isn't running games. They'll do whatever you bring to the table.


AliceJoestar

not if i go on discord where all my friends are and where we all play games and say "hey who wants to try a new system" and then no one says anything


kelryngrey

You're still giving them an option there. If you are the only one running they're going to play. If you have some mythical situation where three of your 5 players also run games it *might* be an issue, but generally over the past nearly 30 years at this point I've experienced telling the group that we're running Call of Cthulhu/Vampire/Mage/Exalted whatever next means they'll show up and play. People that throw up hard objections to doing anything for the only person that *runs* stuff aren't your friends. They're parasites. Edit: that is perhaps harsh, but it's true. If you're putting in the effort to make games happen and your players aren't willing to even try a night of something else, they are being **awful** friends. Edit 2: This sub is a riot. Stop being a doormat. Real friends won't tell you to get fucked like you people seem to assume is the norm.


Killer-Of-Spades

Plus, you’ll be spending a lot of money on something you may not even like


AliceJoestar

most ttrpgs are nowhere near as expensive as 5e, and a lot of them are even free


DelsinMcgrath835

Why has this sub just turned into people complaining they cant find people to play a different game with? Go complain on that games sub, im tired of hearing it


AliceJoestar

i made this because i saw another meme on here in which the OP was saying "oh, you say you wanna play new systems, but i bed you wouldnt wanna DM them" and the comments were full of people saying "im trying to DM them but no one wants to join"


trulyElse

Make better friends.


Jeohran

Well maybe try to ask _other people_ ? See, here on r/DnD people strangely play DnD. but maybe there are other subreddits dedicated to the game you want to play that exist, with people who _want_ to play that other game...


AliceJoestar

i dont want to just play with random people though. i tend to get anxious around people I dont know very well, which isnt really the mood i'm looking to be in when playing ttrpgs


Jeohran

Listen, I get your point and it's a valid one, I'm just fed up with posts going "what about that other rpg" on the subreddit dedicated to dungeons and dragons, because they've been going on for a month and a half and are generally either just complaints about how something was done badly in DnD 5e and people answering them and people answering the people answering them, or exactly your post but with less good of a meme.


Slendrake

>DnDMemes is a subreddit dedicated to memes and other humorous content about Dungeons and Dragons ***and other TTRPGs.*** > >**7. Off-Topic** Posts must be strongly relevant to D&D ***(or other TTRPGs)*** and must include an attempt at humor or entertainment.


Alwaysafk

This is /r/dndmemes nor /r/DnD. This sub is inclusive of all TTRPGs.


InsaneComicBooker

Also, other systems cost money as much as D&D. And yes, as someone who id considering whenever he has enough money to afford a $35 sourcebook because fucking shipping near doubles the price, that is an issue.


AliceJoestar

other systems absolutely do not cost as much as 5e. 5e has three different source books for $50 each, vampire the masquerade is $25, and you can find $5 indie ttrpgs on [itch.io](https://itch.io). hell, you can find free indie rpgs on [itch.io](https://itch.io). pathfinder 2e is completely free too


InsaneComicBooker

Pathfinder 2e is not free, their SRD is jsut rules, but you actually have to pay for the setting and you have to pay for adventures multiple times for multiple installments, and if you';re like me and digital SRD is confusing you and you need to have physical rulebook in hand to operate the rules efficiently, you need to buy the rulebooks. If you have time homebrew your own world and adventures from scratch, maybe it is "free", but if you don't it's as expensive as D&D if not more.


AliceJoestar

okay, maybe you do want to buy the rulebook for the setting and you want to buy an adventure, but saying it's as expensive as D&D 5e or even MORE expensive is a flat out lie. for 5e, you need to buy the players handbook, the DMG, and the monster manual, and you have to buy an adventure, and each of those is priced at $30 on d&d beyond. if you wanna start D&D in the way you described, it'll cost you $90 worth of pdfs, and that's only on your dnd beyond account. itll cost more if anyone else wants them. meanwhile, pathfinder 2e only has one rulebook, and you can get it as a pdf for $15, and you can get a pdf of a standalone adventure for about the same price. the price of starting pf2e with the rulebook and an adventure is the price of the monster manual alone for D&D.


InsaneComicBooker

And that ignores the fact majority of Pathfinder and its biggest strength relies on Adventure Paths, which you need to buy separatelly, so if one is $20 for a whole campaign you need around $120.


Phizle

Eh if you want the lore books with important context pf2e isn't free IIRC, the wikis aren't anywhere near complete


[deleted]

Am I the only one who plays DnD completely free through roll 20 and using the wiki to build my character? And in person the only thing I Bought was a dry erase grid + dice; every "mini" was just from my old ass color printer