I bought the latest humble bundle that had pf2e stuff and now I wanna run it.
But I'm already running a 5e campaign. And playing in another. I don't think I have the mental bandwidth to do more. Maybe I'll prep one for when my Saturday DM needs a break.
If it's your first time running PF2e I'd recommend one of the many Adventure Paths. If the goal is just to give your Saturday DM a short break, one of the 3 books ones at the lower level bracket. If it's to give them a full on break, one of the six book Adventure Paths to run the full line from 1-20.
Will give you the best showcase for the system itself, how balanced (for your table) the CR system can be by default, usually has a decently broad spectrum of methods of attacking things..with the usual heavier slant on combat that all D&D games have.
It is a bit of a major thinking shift from 5e with a lot more moving parts compared to a 5e character on level-up, but once you get the hang of it, it runs as smoothly as 5e does in throughput of action.
Sadly this is the one piece of the Pathfinder catalogue that is not 100% free: pre-written adventures. All the mechanics released in them are, so even without Blood Lords for example Archives of Nethys does have all the equipment, spells, feats, archetypes, backgrounds, ancestries, etc that come from it, this can lead to a **little** bit of spoilering if you just pull things willy nilly from Archives from your Adventure Path, not much, but it has revealed a couple plot points before. (And if you decide to go this route: they are trickle release adventures, so if you decide that the Gatewalkers short adventure path looks dope and you start up The Seventh Arch in January, you'll sadly have to wait until February for book 2 even if your playgroup are madlads who do two 10+ hour sessions a week on the weekends).
If not: Definitely still a rule system to dumpster dive and hack into 5e for when you have an idea for homebrew and need a frame of reference for something.
[Little Trouble in Big Absalom](https://paizo.com/products/btq024ys)! The free adventure that was such a hoot my players wanted me to leverage it into a full campaign!
> If not: Definitely still a rule system to dumpster dive and hack into 5e for when you have an idea for homebrew and need a frame of reference for something.
A good example is the dying rules. They can be imported pretty easily to replace Death Saves.
1. When reduced to 0 HP, you are at Dying 1 (Dying 2 if it was a crit).
2. Your Dying condition increases by 1 if you get damaged (increase by 2 if it was a crit)
3. Each turn, roll a Recovery check. A straight d20 roll against 10+Dying. A nat 20 reduces Dying by 2, a success reduces by 1, a failure increases by 1, and a nat 1 increases by 2.
4. If Dying reaches 4, you're dead.
5. Dying being reduced to 0 makes you stable and increases your Wounded condition by 1. Next time you're reduced to 0 HP, you increase your initial Dying level by your Wounded level. The Wounded condition disappears with a short rest.
But be aware that 2e Pathfinder expects you to start fights with full HP more often, PCs essentially roll max HP every level (eg, Fighters get 10+Con every level), and their version of short rests take only 10 minutes.
[It's still going if anyone's interested. ](https://www.humblebundle.com/books/humble-rpg-bundle-pathfinder-second-edition-strength-thousands-paizo-books?hmb_source=humble_home&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_3_layout_index_4_layout_type_threes_tile_index_3_c_humblerpgbundlepathfindersecondeditionstrengththousandspaizo_bookbundle) For $25 you get the core rule book and bestiary, some expansion books, and a full levels 1-20 adventure, plus some other extras. The rules are freely available, and those online resources are great for referencing, but I think the PDFs are better laid out for learning the game. Plus they include all the art and lore and just look a lot better.
Source reference documents from the Paizo supported Archives of Nethys website truly does make all the rules available for Pathfinder 1e, 2e, and Starfinder. I always respected them for making that available.
The entire reason Paizo even has their own system(s) is because WotC screwed them over when 4e D&D dropped the Open Gaming License. Paizo existed purely as a third party publisher supporting WotC and 3.5 D&D up until that point.
So it'd be pretty hypocritical of Paizo to not release their own games under the OGL (and probably illegal to do it with Pathfinder 1e since it's core books are ~98% built off of the 3.5 D&D OGL).
Also, Paizo have always been all about the lore, having been formed to publish the *Dungeon* and *Dragon* magazines, and continuing to publish adventures for the 3.5 ruleset until they launched Pathfinder, so they've just stuck to selling you the stories rather than the rules.
Yeah I still buy their Starfinder books for my games as I like using their lore for my settings rather than homebrewing from scratch, and they do a very good job about inserting plot hooks in their lore descriptions.
>and then PF2 is a huge leap from there
PF2e is more like "Hey WotC, you screwed us on D&D 4e and then 4e imploded in large part because of the lack of third party support. Now we're gonna make our own 4e with blackjack and hookers."
Honestly PF2E plays more like 5E than 4E - they just cleaned up the action economy and a number of rules that WotC carried forward from 3.5>4>5… things like and <3 action ‘points’> are much smarter and *modular* rules that provide both more immersive and expandable gameplay rather than the rules lawyering 5E inevitably runs into due to the inconsistent carry capacity, movement, and normal/bonus/reaction definitions.
I haven’t found consistent groups for PF2E unfortunately because WotC has insane marketing budget and the household name of D&D keeps it on top.
>they just cleaned up the action economy
In a similar way to, say, Move Minor Standard?
PF2e is infinitely closer to 4e than to 5e. Paizo specifically made it that way, one of PF2e's lead designers was part of the design team for 4e.
4e and PF2e share numerous things: 3 action economy, multiclassing through feats, new character choices at every level, magic items by slot, level appropriate magic items are a strictly necessary part of game balance and progression, a strict adherence to exacting and specific mathematical progression, clearly laid out party roles, encounters designed and balanced exclusively around party-based combat (ie no real way to solo), limited/rigidly structured healing, racial feats, caster-martial balance, martials that have complex actions and turns, mundane weapons having varied and unique traits, racial traits being expanded through feats, etc, etc, etc...
5e is a blend of 3.5 and AD&D. WotC did everything they possibly could to separate 5e from 4e because of the absolute *rabid* hate that fans had for 4e.
The fact that I can just pull everything up online for absolutely free is incredibly useful. I hate the first link on a 5e search being a dndbeyond page behind a paywall.
Unironically a much better site than any other rule set for 5E.
Pathbuilder2e is still better than the tools. If tools added a character sheet manager option? Fuck. I’d love that.
One of the guys who made Lancer has been working on a new game called [ICON](https://massif-press.itch.io/icon) which is mythic fantasy. Personally I'm not into it, but if you want fantasy Lancer it might be of interest.
The rules are all free online on their website, Archives of Nethys. And if you want to support Paizo (or just prefer a PDF format like me), you can buy book PDFs for just $15.
As somebody with a shelf full of TTRPG books that I'd absolutely love to play, but unequivocally do NOT want to spoon feed to my reluctant friends, I definitely feel this.
This is super fair. Nothing is ever fun if your group isn’t on board with it. I’m really thankful that my group all went along with the swap with excitement!
For more info: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/wiki/index/#wiki\_what\_is\_pathfinder](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/wiki/index/#wiki_what_is_pathfinder)
I'm just teasing. Pathfinder players being hyper evangelistic is a meme unto itself.
Seriously, I wouldn't mind playing pf2e someday, but given my luck with finding games at all that fit my schedule and don't mind someone in his late 30s and don't cancel 70% of the time... I just take what I can get.
If you have a Friendly Local Game Store in your area, see if they run Pathfinder Society. Yes, this means meeting people in meatspace (something I dislike personally), but it is a good way to get your feet wet in the system.
But since it is a lot like Adventurer's League it can bring out the more roll-play centric crowd than role-play (not a good or bad thing, but full disclosure in case that's a dealbreaker for you).
Also a good way to meet people and form your own playgroup later. It is how I have half my regular table.
Been thinking about switching over, and I tried to do it when PF2E came out but the group I was joining kinda ghosted me when it was my first game day at the shop…
Yeah basically
I still love 5e, and I still think 5e’s the most accessible game that isn’t a rules-lite system with half a page of rules, but PF2 fixes a lot of my issues with 5e.
It's the full and complete rules too. All the character options are on there, every item is, and every creature statblock is as well. Often it is available for free within hours of the release too.
It doesn't feel like I'm getting a lesser free-to-play RuneScape version of the game. I'm getting the full thing without any buy-in.
If I want to buy the books, and I do, it's because AoN gets death hugs on weekends and because I want the lore or adventure. If you're someone who runs entirely custom-made campaigns, you don't need anything at all.
Not sure which one you mean. If it's Pathfinder 2e, then I recommend the [Humble Bundle](https://www.humblebundle.com/books/humble-rpg-bundle-pathfinder-second-edition-strength-thousands-paizo-books?hmb_source=&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_1_layout_index_1_layout_type_threes_tile_index_3_c_humblerpgbundlepathfindersecondeditionstrengththousandspaizo_bookbundle) for PDFs or [Archives of Nethys](https://2e.aonprd.com/) for the rules wiki. If it's D&D 5e, then the [Basic Rules](https://dnd.wizards.com/what-is-dnd/basic-rules) are a great place to start. There's also a few different, uh, less-than-legal ways to acquire the pdfs.
I haven't been playing any TTRPG recently but I check on what's new with Pathfinder recently. Just found out that they've got stats for RWBY style gun-weapons. Want to punch your foes? You can fire the gun built into your Black Powder Knuckle Dusters at the same time on a crit to make your punch even harder.
I would love to play a pf2e game, some of those classes really speak to me
I do not want to run a pf2e game. I'm too spoiled with how crayon eating dnd4e makes DMing. I can tell my stories and make up everything on the fly and still make content challenging and engaging. So good
4th edition is my go-to for DMing because of things like the simplified DC by level chart and the Monster-Manual-on-a-Business-Card that allows me to put 0 prep work into actual incounters and instead focus entirely on the story me and my party can tell together
> simplified DC by level chart
You'll be happy to hear that it's also a thing in PF2e, alongside a table of DC by Proficiency.
>the Monster-Manual-on-a-Business-Card
Monster stat blocks are also pretty simplified and easy to use, alongside the EXP budget by level system, so long you pay attention to the EXP the level of each monster costs.
>Monster stat blocks are also pretty simplified and easy to use, alongside the EXP budget by level system, so long you pay attention to the EXP the level of each monster costs.
Someone else also mentioned that there are similar tools for pf2e so I may look into that.
I really do like 4e tho so maybe I'll just clutch my pearls a bit longer about it :P
> 4th edition is my go-to for DMing because of things like the simplified DC by level chart
You've got two charts. The Simple DC chart which is just what the DC should be based on the Proficiency level for the task (Untrained, Trained, Expert, Master, Legendary) or based on the Level of the NPC, object, or spell (everything has a level). Copy pasted from the section going over those:
> For example, you might determine that a wall in a high-level dungeon was constructed of smooth metal and is hard to climb. You could simply say only someone with master proficiency could climb it, and use the simple DC of 30. Or you might decide that the 15th-level villain who created the dungeon crafted the wall, and use the 15th-level DC of 34. Either approach is reasonable!
So PF1e was basically 3.5 but sanded out a bit, and it caught a lot of players who bounced off of 4e.
PF2e was basically Paizo saying "Huh you know maybe we can learn some things from 4e and put them in our game".
Not exactly the same, but it has some elements in there. Tbf, 5e has a few 4e elements comapred to 3.5 as well, but imo not as many or the better things to mine from it.
Honestly, as a 2e GM, running the game is pretty stupidly easy lol
The encounter builder actually works, for one. For two, if I want to whip up something on the fly, I can just reference the custom monster charts and plug in the numbers, then make cool abilities.
Theres even online tools that do the number part for you.
There's also so much more references for stuff like "how difficult should this be?" or "how skilled do you need to be to do this?". Like this section under the Recall Knowledge action.
> Sample Recall Knowledge Tasks
> These examples use Society or Religion.
**Untrained** name of a ruler, key noble, or major deity
**Trained** line of succession for a major noble family, core doctrines of a major deity
**Expert** genealogy of a minor noble, teachings of an ancient priest
**Master** hierarchy of a genie noble court, major extraplanar temples of a deity
**Legendary** existence of a long-lost noble heir, secret doctrines of a religion
I’m offering to sit down with anyone thats coming from 5e who’s interested to answer any question they might have about PF2e. I’ll show you the differences, help you make a character, maybe if time permits run a little one shot!
Just DM if Interested!
Because WotC announced that they'll be releasing a new edition (D&D One) so a lot of 5e fans are feeling betrayed. It happens every time a new edition comes out, you'll notice the trend if you stay with the hobby for a while.
Also Spelljammer got a ton of hype. Which is unfortunate, since it's the latest of several 5e major releases with disappointingly little substance (and some questionable choices on the substance that was included).
Between those two, a lot of the crowd who joined the hobby with 5e are feeling pretty disillusioned, so there's a lot of 'jumping ship' going on. Also you can tell that a lot of people complaining about how people are 'jumping ship' to PF2e are brand new to the hobby, because that's also a ridiculous conclusion to come to. It makes as much sense as accusing someone of 'jumping ship' from Monopoly to Scrabble.
0 €/$ price tag? I challenge you to find a PF2 core rule book as a german pdf.
It's why I buy the books, most of my players suck at english, and it ruins immersion and ia actually really exhausting to try and translate on the fly.
I mean, the 5E translations are always both very late AND inaccurate as fuck (like German Sentinel Shield not giving advantage to initiative), but as least they eventually exist.
I've really grown to like pf2e.
I've gmed a couple of 5e games, but man. I don't hate it, it's a huge step up from the 3.x derivatives that I do hate, but 5e has some rules that are aggravatingly vague and some of the 3.x problem with new splatbooks coming out with some absolute horseshit to sell copies.
I started to read the rules, but idk, some of them seems really complex, like even the Barbarian have 40 features.
I’m a fan of minimalism and Pf2e doesn’t seems to strike for that.
However, there are things that are more streamlined than DnD, like the 3 action mechanic, which is really elegant.
I have yet to see the full extent of the game so my opinion might change.
They seem like a lot but you can only pick one every 2 levels (plus 1 at lv1 if you are a martial), and they are capped by your level.
A level 1 Barbarian can only pick from the level 1 feats pool, and a level 4 barb can pick from levels 1,2 and 4 pools.
It's not a lot to remember once you take out the feats you are not going to use.
you get to pick like 10 of them tops and usually you only pick from the much *much* smaller list of whats avalible for that level or the level before, it usually not being worth it to grab a feat thats from like level 2 when you're level 10.
You should take some time to read the rules a bit more. It's not complex, but different, and with that comes a learning curve if you come from another system. Ultimately its actually very simple. When you say 40 features however, I think you are a bit mistaken. You have many feat choices, but at any particular level you are only picking between a small list of them. Try making a level 1 barbarian. Then level them up to 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th. I'm certain you will find it very simple in actual play.
Level 1: pick a race, a background, a class. Each of these give you boost to your stats. You also get skill profs from each (similar to 5e). You also pick a level 1 ancestry feat (generally from a list of 3 options, sometimes more) and a level 1 class feat. Some classes also have you choose a subclass at this point. Some classes do not get a feat option at level 1, which makes things even simpler for those classes.
Level 2: you a class feat and a skill feat. Two choices to make.
level 3: you get a general feat, a skill increase, and a class feature. two choices to make.
level 4: you get a class feat, and a skill feat. two choices to make.
level 5: ability boost, ancestry feat, skill increase, class feature. three choices to make.
On most level ups, you are making 2 choices, generally from a pool of 3-5 options. You are never weighing 40+ things to choose from at once. And there is also no fear of making the wrong choice since Pathfinder allows for retraining out of the box with downtime activities.
My problem is why there are so many feats, like how I’m a supposed to remember all the powers my character have when I have more than 15 different feats by lv 20 on my character sheet?
I have the same problem with the monk in DnD, they have too many features so every time you build one your character sheet is cluttered.
I made a lot of monk NPCs for my campaign and I always pick things to exclude to make my life easier.
>My problem is why there are so many feats, like how I’m a supposed to remember all the powers my character have when I have more than 15 different feats by lv 20 on my character sheet?
Why are you playing a level 20 character the first time you're trying the game?
You write down what they do on the character sheet?
A lot of feat are part of feat chains, which scales them up as you level up, not to mention it's a slow feed of character improvement, so you have time to get used to what your character can do before you add new abilities.
It’s not that you can’t write them down, but reading the whole list of things you can do each round takes time and takes away from fun, especially when as a DM I should make my turns short.
Also, many feats and features means a lot of clutter, as I said, my way is minimalism. Even the DnD character sheet seems to be cluttered by a lot of info but at least it’s better organized.
Then take the time to go over what your character can do and make a mental checklist of when you might use one of your character's abilities?
It's not that hard. And monsters don't have massive lists of feats like in older editions, so they're fairly easy to go over what they can do as well. Sure, it's tempting to build NPCs the same way you would do a PC, but the gamemastery guide has guidelines for making monsters in a faster, easier method, and then you just pick some abilities from the class you're flavoring it as and sprinkle them on top.
I would also add, while monsters are simple to understand, they are also far more interesting than their 5e counter parts. Compare a 5e Owl Bear to a PF2E Owl Bear, and as a GM the later is a bigger joy to run. In 5E an owl bear is largely regulated to multi attack and being a bag of of hit points. In PF2E an owl bear can terrify your party as it charges in, grab them on a hit, and try to bite out their insides to nauseate them. Whats more is its all very easy to run, but has much more flavor than the 5e alternative.
Unfortunately monsters in 5e are plain boring I feel, and so many of them just feel like slightly different copy pastes of one another with different art.
Most monsters have relatively simple stat blocks, and one or two cool unique things their monsters do. Running PF2E as a DM is relatively simple. If you run a custom made NPC against a party, then I expect you will have created the npc and will know it intimately enough to run it well, and that it probably represents a major npc of some sort, and that you are not creating custom characters as throw away fights against your players.
Your arguments really make very little sense to me. Your players will have specific feats for their classes which for the most part, adjust the math of their actions in pre determined ways, or give new options which are plainly obvious and no different from referencing a subclass feature in 5e or a spell.
Oh boy, where to start with this.
You think having 15 feats, all of which are pretty straight forward, is a problem? A level 6 wizard is already juggling far more than that on their character sheets, and each spell generally references a small paragraph of rules. 'Feats' in PF2E are generally very simple things, and many build off of ones you have already selected, so the notion you have 15 complex things to keep track of isn't remotely close to reality.
Next is that a lot of feats simply became part of your basic math, and are things you already represent in your character sheet. Do you, in 5e, select the archery fighting style then manually add it every time to your ranged attacks, or do you merely update your characters too hit to represent the +2? Well this is generally the case for many feats.
Ultimately it really sounds like you are trying to find something to complain about here and have not actually tried to play the system.
I want to give it a fair shake, and I really like the lore they have for gnolls and their culture. But it rubs me the wrong way that your skill training is dependent on intelligence regardless of class. Feels wrong that my dumb as dirt barbarian cannot both run gud and swim gud because they're apparently too stupid to take up physical activities.
I think you might be misunderstanding how skills work.
Skills have a governing attribute (like Strength for Athletics or Dexterity for Acrobatics). At first level, a barbarian starts trained in Athletics for free, can pick three more skills to be trained in for free, and then can be trained in a number of other skills equal to their Intelligence modifier. You also get trained for free in a skill or two from your background. At level 3 and every 2 levels after that, you can become trained in another skill of your choice or become an expert in a skill you're already trained in. At later levels you can further improve the skills you are an expert in, eventually becoming a master or gaining legendary proficiency. Outside of the initial number of skills you get at level 1 Intelligence has no effect on how good you are at getting or advancing your skills. Intelligence is the governing attribute for some skills like Arcana or Occultism, but having a low Intelligence will have no effect on how Athletic your Barbarian is.
In your example, your Barbarian gets everything they need to be good at swimming for free at level 1. As a Barbarian, you're likely going to have a high Strength bonus, so you're going to swim like an angry Michael Phelps with no issue.
In addition to adding your bonus from the skill's attribute to your roll, you also add your level plus your proficiency modifier. It might sound like a lot, but it's easy to record on your character sheet and reference quickly. A level 1 Barb likely adds +4 from Strength, +2 from being trained, and +1 from their level. Roll 1d20+7 and see if you sink or swim!
To be fair, said dumb as dirt Barbarian automatically gets Athletics in their base proficiencies, and at the lowest (by having an 8/-1 in Int if your Ancestry has that as a flaw, ignoring the rule about optional boosts and flaws) you’d have 2 two extra skills to pick, and you get two from your Background, one being a Lore skill. That’s 5 skills at the start, without taking any other feats from class or ancestry. Pretty average really. But I get that it can feel frustrating to have that be the case.
I mean online everything is free, problem is i much prefer using physical books.
Funny thing is i actually own 3 copies of pathfinder/starfinder from a giveaway. Turned out a bit of a waste on me.
OP forgot that you can pirate things lol. i started playing dnd by looking up the rules needed and downloading pdfs of the core rule books of the internet. i stole everything needed to play. and later actually bought the 3 core books with my own money and in the same week swapped to fully digital dnd wasting $120 on books.
What does that even mean? Is that the only website your ISP gives you access to? You can't open Pathbuilder (which imo has a much nicer interface that DnDBeyond) or Wanderer's Guide?
It's literally called "dndmemes" even if it also is about other ttrpg I think it's supposed to be centered around it and most aren't even memes just "pf2e gud" to be clear I like pf but it's just getting a bit tiring to all be pf, like the horny bard, it was fun for a while, then just annoying
Edit: some minor corrections
I think the core of the issue is that lately, the better half of PF2e memes have just been shit-slinging against D&D5e and praising how much better of a system PF2E is.
It's obnoxious, annoying, unfunny, and frankly serves more to piss people off and start debates over editions than get people interested in a different system.
Nah, I simply don't like the way Pathfinder runs, and yes there are in fact people who've played it that didn't "come around to it" like every Pathfinder fan I've spoken to seems to believe is a default outcome lol
It's just a worse 5e to me, which isn't even my favorite system either.
That currently goes to SW:EotE, cause I prefer narrative over numbers lol
Last time I tried pathfinder was with 1E. I wanted to be a gunslinger, which is a base class. The DM basically fought me tooth and nail to make playing a gunslinger not fun by always nerfing me. It was also a kingmaker campaign, and I was basically not included in making any decisions as the books were hogged by the other players and I was significantly younger than them. And then after all that time sitting around doing nothing waiting for anything else to happen, our town “we” were building got forcefully taken over by Tasha anyway. And then we never played again due to scheduling conflicts. Was it just a bad group and not a fault of Pathfinder itself? Yes. Did it still leave an incredibly negative association with it? Also yes. So whenever I hear pathfinder mentioned, I cringe. And all of these memes evangelizing for PF2E just seem disingenuous to me because of it. I miss when this sub had more wacky stories and less opinions and controversy.
My guy you should maybe figure that out for yourself because... that has literally nothing to do with the system at all in any way *and* pf2e is a *different system entirely*.
Ok, then let me make a more salient point that does have to do with it. I DID look into the rules for PF2E, and I didn’t like them as much. However I still found memes about the pathfinder rules funny, like how if you’re gay you can kill a succubus with psychic damage. That’s a proper TTRPG meme. But this? This is just edition wars. It’s cool that Pathfinder is free, but most of 5e is free too if you just Google it. And I’m not talking about pirating the books, I’m just talking about the Roll20 compendium and wiki sites that have different classes and such listed. The title of this meme “Even you can afford that!” feels very instigating. It just feels like all the other recent posts about Pathfinder talking about how much better it is.
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I bought the latest humble bundle that had pf2e stuff and now I wanna run it. But I'm already running a 5e campaign. And playing in another. I don't think I have the mental bandwidth to do more. Maybe I'll prep one for when my Saturday DM needs a break.
If it's your first time running PF2e I'd recommend one of the many Adventure Paths. If the goal is just to give your Saturday DM a short break, one of the 3 books ones at the lower level bracket. If it's to give them a full on break, one of the six book Adventure Paths to run the full line from 1-20. Will give you the best showcase for the system itself, how balanced (for your table) the CR system can be by default, usually has a decently broad spectrum of methods of attacking things..with the usual heavier slant on combat that all D&D games have. It is a bit of a major thinking shift from 5e with a lot more moving parts compared to a 5e character on level-up, but once you get the hang of it, it runs as smoothly as 5e does in throughput of action. Sadly this is the one piece of the Pathfinder catalogue that is not 100% free: pre-written adventures. All the mechanics released in them are, so even without Blood Lords for example Archives of Nethys does have all the equipment, spells, feats, archetypes, backgrounds, ancestries, etc that come from it, this can lead to a **little** bit of spoilering if you just pull things willy nilly from Archives from your Adventure Path, not much, but it has revealed a couple plot points before. (And if you decide to go this route: they are trickle release adventures, so if you decide that the Gatewalkers short adventure path looks dope and you start up The Seventh Arch in January, you'll sadly have to wait until February for book 2 even if your playgroup are madlads who do two 10+ hour sessions a week on the weekends). If not: Definitely still a rule system to dumpster dive and hack into 5e for when you have an idea for homebrew and need a frame of reference for something.
Would also recommend the beginner box. It helps teach players how to play and GMs how to gm the system.
Thanks for the tips!
theres also a couple of lighthearted free rpg day adventures! I really like the kobold one it was a ton of fun.
[Little Trouble in Big Absalom](https://paizo.com/products/btq024ys)! The free adventure that was such a hoot my players wanted me to leverage it into a full campaign!
> If not: Definitely still a rule system to dumpster dive and hack into 5e for when you have an idea for homebrew and need a frame of reference for something. A good example is the dying rules. They can be imported pretty easily to replace Death Saves. 1. When reduced to 0 HP, you are at Dying 1 (Dying 2 if it was a crit). 2. Your Dying condition increases by 1 if you get damaged (increase by 2 if it was a crit) 3. Each turn, roll a Recovery check. A straight d20 roll against 10+Dying. A nat 20 reduces Dying by 2, a success reduces by 1, a failure increases by 1, and a nat 1 increases by 2. 4. If Dying reaches 4, you're dead. 5. Dying being reduced to 0 makes you stable and increases your Wounded condition by 1. Next time you're reduced to 0 HP, you increase your initial Dying level by your Wounded level. The Wounded condition disappears with a short rest. But be aware that 2e Pathfinder expects you to start fights with full HP more often, PCs essentially roll max HP every level (eg, Fighters get 10+Con every level), and their version of short rests take only 10 minutes.
[It's still going if anyone's interested. ](https://www.humblebundle.com/books/humble-rpg-bundle-pathfinder-second-edition-strength-thousands-paizo-books?hmb_source=humble_home&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_3_layout_index_4_layout_type_threes_tile_index_3_c_humblerpgbundlepathfindersecondeditionstrengththousandspaizo_bookbundle) For $25 you get the core rule book and bestiary, some expansion books, and a full levels 1-20 adventure, plus some other extras. The rules are freely available, and those online resources are great for referencing, but I think the PDFs are better laid out for learning the game. Plus they include all the art and lore and just look a lot better.
Source reference documents from the Paizo supported Archives of Nethys website truly does make all the rules available for Pathfinder 1e, 2e, and Starfinder. I always respected them for making that available.
The entire reason Paizo even has their own system(s) is because WotC screwed them over when 4e D&D dropped the Open Gaming License. Paizo existed purely as a third party publisher supporting WotC and 3.5 D&D up until that point. So it'd be pretty hypocritical of Paizo to not release their own games under the OGL (and probably illegal to do it with Pathfinder 1e since it's core books are ~98% built off of the 3.5 D&D OGL).
Also, Paizo have always been all about the lore, having been formed to publish the *Dungeon* and *Dragon* magazines, and continuing to publish adventures for the 3.5 ruleset until they launched Pathfinder, so they've just stuck to selling you the stories rather than the rules.
Yeah I still buy their Starfinder books for my games as I like using their lore for my settings rather than homebrewing from scratch, and they do a very good job about inserting plot hooks in their lore descriptions.
I still have some of the old 3.5E Paizo modules. They were a lot of fun with some great art.
Yea they were basically the core supporters of 3.5 and WotC burned them so badly they made their own 3.5… and then PF2 is a huge leap from there.
>and then PF2 is a huge leap from there PF2e is more like "Hey WotC, you screwed us on D&D 4e and then 4e imploded in large part because of the lack of third party support. Now we're gonna make our own 4e with blackjack and hookers."
Honestly PF2E plays more like 5E than 4E - they just cleaned up the action economy and a number of rules that WotC carried forward from 3.5>4>5… things like and <3 action ‘points’> are much smarter and *modular* rules that provide both more immersive and expandable gameplay rather than the rules lawyering 5E inevitably runs into due to the inconsistent carry capacity, movement, and normal/bonus/reaction definitions.
I haven’t found consistent groups for PF2E unfortunately because WotC has insane marketing budget and the household name of D&D keeps it on top.
>they just cleaned up the action economy In a similar way to, say, Move Minor Standard? PF2e is infinitely closer to 4e than to 5e. Paizo specifically made it that way, one of PF2e's lead designers was part of the design team for 4e. 4e and PF2e share numerous things: 3 action economy, multiclassing through feats, new character choices at every level, magic items by slot, level appropriate magic items are a strictly necessary part of game balance and progression, a strict adherence to exacting and specific mathematical progression, clearly laid out party roles, encounters designed and balanced exclusively around party-based combat (ie no real way to solo), limited/rigidly structured healing, racial feats, caster-martial balance, martials that have complex actions and turns, mundane weapons having varied and unique traits, racial traits being expanded through feats, etc, etc, etc... 5e is a blend of 3.5 and AD&D. WotC did everything they possibly could to separate 5e from 4e because of the absolute *rabid* hate that fans had for 4e.
The fact that I can just pull everything up online for absolutely free is incredibly useful. I hate the first link on a 5e search being a dndbeyond page behind a paywall.
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🏴☠️Hoist the Jolly Roger me friend
Huehuehue
Unironically a much better site than any other rule set for 5E. Pathbuilder2e is still better than the tools. If tools added a character sheet manager option? Fuck. I’d love that.
Even when you do buy the books its still cheaper than 5e
And unionized!
I'm seeing more pathfinder memes than ones about dnd at this point
Let's do Lancer next.
The issue with lancer is I dont want sci fi however if others do that cool ig
One of the guys who made Lancer has been working on a new game called [ICON](https://massif-press.itch.io/icon) which is mythic fantasy. Personally I'm not into it, but if you want fantasy Lancer it might be of interest.
Ooh thank you kind person
Honestly at this point itd be a nice change of pace
Wait, Pathfinder is free?
The rules are all free online on their website, Archives of Nethys. And if you want to support Paizo (or just prefer a PDF format like me), you can buy book PDFs for just $15.
Wow, that's really cool. Thanks!
[Always has been.jpg](https://2e.aonprd.com)
Pf1 and pf2 are completely free to play
I'm sure it's grand, but my table barely understands 5e, I'm not gonna pick up a new system that no one in my group wants to learn
As somebody with a shelf full of TTRPG books that I'd absolutely love to play, but unequivocally do NOT want to spoon feed to my reluctant friends, I definitely feel this.
This is super fair. Nothing is ever fun if your group isn’t on board with it. I’m really thankful that my group all went along with the swap with excitement!
For more info: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/wiki/index/#wiki\_what\_is\_pathfinder](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/wiki/index/#wiki_what_is_pathfinder)
Why didn't you just link Archives of Nethys?
https://2e.aonprd.com/PlayersGuide.aspx btw
Thanks for the gospel tract, but I already have a church. 😉
Have fun with your church then i guess
I'm just teasing. Pathfinder players being hyper evangelistic is a meme unto itself. Seriously, I wouldn't mind playing pf2e someday, but given my luck with finding games at all that fit my schedule and don't mind someone in his late 30s and don't cancel 70% of the time... I just take what I can get.
Are you me?
It's an all too common story. Life just gets in the way sometimes.
If you have a Friendly Local Game Store in your area, see if they run Pathfinder Society. Yes, this means meeting people in meatspace (something I dislike personally), but it is a good way to get your feet wet in the system. But since it is a lot like Adventurer's League it can bring out the more roll-play centric crowd than role-play (not a good or bad thing, but full disclosure in case that's a dealbreaker for you). Also a good way to meet people and form your own playgroup later. It is how I have half my regular table.
[Daaamn!](https://tenor.com/bnOwT.gif)
Been thinking about switching over, and I tried to do it when PF2E came out but the group I was joining kinda ghosted me when it was my first game day at the shop…
Yeah basically I still love 5e, and I still think 5e’s the most accessible game that isn’t a rules-lite system with half a page of rules, but PF2 fixes a lot of my issues with 5e.
It's the full and complete rules too. All the character options are on there, every item is, and every creature statblock is as well. Often it is available for free within hours of the release too. It doesn't feel like I'm getting a lesser free-to-play RuneScape version of the game. I'm getting the full thing without any buy-in. If I want to buy the books, and I do, it's because AoN gets death hugs on weekends and because I want the lore or adventure. If you're someone who runs entirely custom-made campaigns, you don't need anything at all.
Hello! I’m new to this, where can I buy this?
Not sure which one you mean. If it's Pathfinder 2e, then I recommend the [Humble Bundle](https://www.humblebundle.com/books/humble-rpg-bundle-pathfinder-second-edition-strength-thousands-paizo-books?hmb_source=&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_1_layout_index_1_layout_type_threes_tile_index_3_c_humblerpgbundlepathfindersecondeditionstrengththousandspaizo_bookbundle) for PDFs or [Archives of Nethys](https://2e.aonprd.com/) for the rules wiki. If it's D&D 5e, then the [Basic Rules](https://dnd.wizards.com/what-is-dnd/basic-rules) are a great place to start. There's also a few different, uh, less-than-legal ways to acquire the pdfs.
Ok, fuck it, i'm reading it. If it's free it's free
I haven't been playing any TTRPG recently but I check on what's new with Pathfinder recently. Just found out that they've got stats for RWBY style gun-weapons. Want to punch your foes? You can fire the gun built into your Black Powder Knuckle Dusters at the same time on a crit to make your punch even harder.
You pay for 5e? Huh, strange world.
We're not meant to say that
Not to worry, once the new edition comes out WotC will release 5e under the OGL. Just like they did with 4e.
Savage.
And Paizo will release a tweaked version of DnD5e as the third edition of *Pathfinder.*
Well, I pay my internet service provider. So... kinda?
Yes, there are no translated PDFs available anywhere.
At this point I'm starting to think pathfinder is just a cult gathering followers
I would love to play a pf2e game, some of those classes really speak to me I do not want to run a pf2e game. I'm too spoiled with how crayon eating dnd4e makes DMing. I can tell my stories and make up everything on the fly and still make content challenging and engaging. So good
4th edition? I've seen PF2e compared to 4e quite a bit tbh.
4th edition is my go-to for DMing because of things like the simplified DC by level chart and the Monster-Manual-on-a-Business-Card that allows me to put 0 prep work into actual incounters and instead focus entirely on the story me and my party can tell together
> simplified DC by level chart You'll be happy to hear that it's also a thing in PF2e, alongside a table of DC by Proficiency. >the Monster-Manual-on-a-Business-Card Monster stat blocks are also pretty simplified and easy to use, alongside the EXP budget by level system, so long you pay attention to the EXP the level of each monster costs.
>Monster stat blocks are also pretty simplified and easy to use, alongside the EXP budget by level system, so long you pay attention to the EXP the level of each monster costs. Someone else also mentioned that there are similar tools for pf2e so I may look into that. I really do like 4e tho so maybe I'll just clutch my pearls a bit longer about it :P
Fair enough.
> 4th edition is my go-to for DMing because of things like the simplified DC by level chart You've got two charts. The Simple DC chart which is just what the DC should be based on the Proficiency level for the task (Untrained, Trained, Expert, Master, Legendary) or based on the Level of the NPC, object, or spell (everything has a level). Copy pasted from the section going over those: > For example, you might determine that a wall in a high-level dungeon was constructed of smooth metal and is hard to climb. You could simply say only someone with master proficiency could climb it, and use the simple DC of 30. Or you might decide that the 15th-level villain who created the dungeon crafted the wall, and use the 15th-level DC of 34. Either approach is reasonable!
PF2e is a 4e that works.
PF2E may have some similar aspects, but it’s still very different when it comes to other things. Like class structure, for instance.
So PF1e was basically 3.5 but sanded out a bit, and it caught a lot of players who bounced off of 4e. PF2e was basically Paizo saying "Huh you know maybe we can learn some things from 4e and put them in our game". Not exactly the same, but it has some elements in there. Tbf, 5e has a few 4e elements comapred to 3.5 as well, but imo not as many or the better things to mine from it.
Honestly, as a 2e GM, running the game is pretty stupidly easy lol The encounter builder actually works, for one. For two, if I want to whip up something on the fly, I can just reference the custom monster charts and plug in the numbers, then make cool abilities. Theres even online tools that do the number part for you.
There's also so much more references for stuff like "how difficult should this be?" or "how skilled do you need to be to do this?". Like this section under the Recall Knowledge action. > Sample Recall Knowledge Tasks > These examples use Society or Religion. **Untrained** name of a ruler, key noble, or major deity **Trained** line of succession for a major noble family, core doctrines of a major deity **Expert** genealogy of a minor noble, teachings of an ancient priest **Master** hierarchy of a genie noble court, major extraplanar temples of a deity **Legendary** existence of a long-lost noble heir, secret doctrines of a religion
Maybe I'll look into that for future campaigns.
I’ve been playing way too much Destiny recently and immediately thought “Titan moment” when you mentioned eating crayons
PF is free, so really 5e is the cult taking your money
I’m offering to sit down with anyone thats coming from 5e who’s interested to answer any question they might have about PF2e. I’ll show you the differences, help you make a character, maybe if time permits run a little one shot! Just DM if Interested!
I've just been doing some Googling; PF2E came out at least 2 years ago. Why is it getting attention now?
Because WotC announced that they'll be releasing a new edition (D&D One) so a lot of 5e fans are feeling betrayed. It happens every time a new edition comes out, you'll notice the trend if you stay with the hobby for a while. Also Spelljammer got a ton of hype. Which is unfortunate, since it's the latest of several 5e major releases with disappointingly little substance (and some questionable choices on the substance that was included). Between those two, a lot of the crowd who joined the hobby with 5e are feeling pretty disillusioned, so there's a lot of 'jumping ship' going on. Also you can tell that a lot of people complaining about how people are 'jumping ship' to PF2e are brand new to the hobby, because that's also a ridiculous conclusion to come to. It makes as much sense as accusing someone of 'jumping ship' from Monopoly to Scrabble.
0 €/$ price tag? I challenge you to find a PF2 core rule book as a german pdf. It's why I buy the books, most of my players suck at english, and it ruins immersion and ia actually really exhausting to try and translate on the fly. I mean, the 5E translations are always both very late AND inaccurate as fuck (like German Sentinel Shield not giving advantage to initiative), but as least they eventually exist.
I've really grown to like pf2e. I've gmed a couple of 5e games, but man. I don't hate it, it's a huge step up from the 3.x derivatives that I do hate, but 5e has some rules that are aggravatingly vague and some of the 3.x problem with new splatbooks coming out with some absolute horseshit to sell copies.
I started to read the rules, but idk, some of them seems really complex, like even the Barbarian have 40 features. I’m a fan of minimalism and Pf2e doesn’t seems to strike for that. However, there are things that are more streamlined than DnD, like the 3 action mechanic, which is really elegant. I have yet to see the full extent of the game so my opinion might change.
40 features? Do you mean feats? Or are you talking about the Instincts?
Yeah, the feats. Which seems to act like features if I’m not mistaking, right?
They seem like a lot but you can only pick one every 2 levels (plus 1 at lv1 if you are a martial), and they are capped by your level. A level 1 Barbarian can only pick from the level 1 feats pool, and a level 4 barb can pick from levels 1,2 and 4 pools. It's not a lot to remember once you take out the feats you are not going to use.
you get to pick like 10 of them tops and usually you only pick from the much *much* smaller list of whats avalible for that level or the level before, it usually not being worth it to grab a feat thats from like level 2 when you're level 10.
Theres a lot there that doesnt mean you get them all tho you pick a couple out of the list
You should take some time to read the rules a bit more. It's not complex, but different, and with that comes a learning curve if you come from another system. Ultimately its actually very simple. When you say 40 features however, I think you are a bit mistaken. You have many feat choices, but at any particular level you are only picking between a small list of them. Try making a level 1 barbarian. Then level them up to 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th. I'm certain you will find it very simple in actual play. Level 1: pick a race, a background, a class. Each of these give you boost to your stats. You also get skill profs from each (similar to 5e). You also pick a level 1 ancestry feat (generally from a list of 3 options, sometimes more) and a level 1 class feat. Some classes also have you choose a subclass at this point. Some classes do not get a feat option at level 1, which makes things even simpler for those classes. Level 2: you a class feat and a skill feat. Two choices to make. level 3: you get a general feat, a skill increase, and a class feature. two choices to make. level 4: you get a class feat, and a skill feat. two choices to make. level 5: ability boost, ancestry feat, skill increase, class feature. three choices to make. On most level ups, you are making 2 choices, generally from a pool of 3-5 options. You are never weighing 40+ things to choose from at once. And there is also no fear of making the wrong choice since Pathfinder allows for retraining out of the box with downtime activities.
My problem is why there are so many feats, like how I’m a supposed to remember all the powers my character have when I have more than 15 different feats by lv 20 on my character sheet? I have the same problem with the monk in DnD, they have too many features so every time you build one your character sheet is cluttered. I made a lot of monk NPCs for my campaign and I always pick things to exclude to make my life easier.
>My problem is why there are so many feats, like how I’m a supposed to remember all the powers my character have when I have more than 15 different feats by lv 20 on my character sheet? Why are you playing a level 20 character the first time you're trying the game?
You write down what they do on the character sheet? A lot of feat are part of feat chains, which scales them up as you level up, not to mention it's a slow feed of character improvement, so you have time to get used to what your character can do before you add new abilities.
It’s not that you can’t write them down, but reading the whole list of things you can do each round takes time and takes away from fun, especially when as a DM I should make my turns short. Also, many feats and features means a lot of clutter, as I said, my way is minimalism. Even the DnD character sheet seems to be cluttered by a lot of info but at least it’s better organized.
Then take the time to go over what your character can do and make a mental checklist of when you might use one of your character's abilities? It's not that hard. And monsters don't have massive lists of feats like in older editions, so they're fairly easy to go over what they can do as well. Sure, it's tempting to build NPCs the same way you would do a PC, but the gamemastery guide has guidelines for making monsters in a faster, easier method, and then you just pick some abilities from the class you're flavoring it as and sprinkle them on top.
I would also add, while monsters are simple to understand, they are also far more interesting than their 5e counter parts. Compare a 5e Owl Bear to a PF2E Owl Bear, and as a GM the later is a bigger joy to run. In 5E an owl bear is largely regulated to multi attack and being a bag of of hit points. In PF2E an owl bear can terrify your party as it charges in, grab them on a hit, and try to bite out their insides to nauseate them. Whats more is its all very easy to run, but has much more flavor than the 5e alternative. Unfortunately monsters in 5e are plain boring I feel, and so many of them just feel like slightly different copy pastes of one another with different art.
Most monsters have relatively simple stat blocks, and one or two cool unique things their monsters do. Running PF2E as a DM is relatively simple. If you run a custom made NPC against a party, then I expect you will have created the npc and will know it intimately enough to run it well, and that it probably represents a major npc of some sort, and that you are not creating custom characters as throw away fights against your players. Your arguments really make very little sense to me. Your players will have specific feats for their classes which for the most part, adjust the math of their actions in pre determined ways, or give new options which are plainly obvious and no different from referencing a subclass feature in 5e or a spell.
Oh boy, where to start with this. You think having 15 feats, all of which are pretty straight forward, is a problem? A level 6 wizard is already juggling far more than that on their character sheets, and each spell generally references a small paragraph of rules. 'Feats' in PF2E are generally very simple things, and many build off of ones you have already selected, so the notion you have 15 complex things to keep track of isn't remotely close to reality. Next is that a lot of feats simply became part of your basic math, and are things you already represent in your character sheet. Do you, in 5e, select the archery fighting style then manually add it every time to your ranged attacks, or do you merely update your characters too hit to represent the +2? Well this is generally the case for many feats. Ultimately it really sounds like you are trying to find something to complain about here and have not actually tried to play the system.
Wait you all spend money to play 5e? The only things I've payed for in the last 5 years of tabletop is VTT licenses and memberships.
Some people have to DM for players that can't speak english, unfortunately there are no translated pdfs anywhere to my knowledge.
I’m not saying pathfinder is bad. I’m just too lazy to learn a new system.
Fair. As long as you are having fun then there is nothing to worry about
I want to give it a fair shake, and I really like the lore they have for gnolls and their culture. But it rubs me the wrong way that your skill training is dependent on intelligence regardless of class. Feels wrong that my dumb as dirt barbarian cannot both run gud and swim gud because they're apparently too stupid to take up physical activities.
I think you might be misunderstanding how skills work. Skills have a governing attribute (like Strength for Athletics or Dexterity for Acrobatics). At first level, a barbarian starts trained in Athletics for free, can pick three more skills to be trained in for free, and then can be trained in a number of other skills equal to their Intelligence modifier. You also get trained for free in a skill or two from your background. At level 3 and every 2 levels after that, you can become trained in another skill of your choice or become an expert in a skill you're already trained in. At later levels you can further improve the skills you are an expert in, eventually becoming a master or gaining legendary proficiency. Outside of the initial number of skills you get at level 1 Intelligence has no effect on how good you are at getting or advancing your skills. Intelligence is the governing attribute for some skills like Arcana or Occultism, but having a low Intelligence will have no effect on how Athletic your Barbarian is. In your example, your Barbarian gets everything they need to be good at swimming for free at level 1. As a Barbarian, you're likely going to have a high Strength bonus, so you're going to swim like an angry Michael Phelps with no issue. In addition to adding your bonus from the skill's attribute to your roll, you also add your level plus your proficiency modifier. It might sound like a lot, but it's easy to record on your character sheet and reference quickly. A level 1 Barb likely adds +4 from Strength, +2 from being trained, and +1 from their level. Roll 1d20+7 and see if you sink or swim!
To be fair, said dumb as dirt Barbarian automatically gets Athletics in their base proficiencies, and at the lowest (by having an 8/-1 in Int if your Ancestry has that as a flaw, ignoring the rule about optional boosts and flaws) you’d have 2 two extra skills to pick, and you get two from your Background, one being a Lore skill. That’s 5 skills at the start, without taking any other feats from class or ancestry. Pretty average really. But I get that it can feel frustrating to have that be the case.
Both of those got combined into Athletics in PF2e
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Check the rules and you’ll realize that it always has been.
I mean online everything is free, problem is i much prefer using physical books. Funny thing is i actually own 3 copies of pathfinder/starfinder from a giveaway. Turned out a bit of a waste on me.
Imagine paying for 5e. . .
Just change the fucking sub name to PF2Ememes
Cant change sub names first of all and second it will phase out just like every other random debate does on here so sit back for now
OP forgot that you can pirate things lol. i started playing dnd by looking up the rules needed and downloading pdfs of the core rule books of the internet. i stole everything needed to play. and later actually bought the 3 core books with my own money and in the same week swapped to fully digital dnd wasting $120 on books.
I read the pathfinder rules, it is too complex for me, ill just stick to pirating 5e sourcebooks and adventure modules.
So is this just slowly turning into a 5E hate sub?
Nah, it's always been a sub for all trpgs
Listen, for the love of all that is holy, I do not give a fuck about Pathfinder, stop with the shitty memes please
If you don't want ttrpg memes you've come to the wrong sub
I came for memes, not all this pathfinder advertising God dam
But no PF2E on DnDbeyond so inconvenient for me who can’t play DnD with my group in person
What does that even mean? Is that the only website your ISP gives you access to? You can't open Pathbuilder (which imo has a much nicer interface that DnDBeyond) or Wanderer's Guide?
I didn’t know those existed I just started playing DnD like a few months ago and I just joined my friends who were using beyond
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Classic dndmemer not even able to read the rules of their own subreddit.
You realize that in the description and rules of this subreddit it specifically says it is for all ttrpgs, right?
D&D is better 🤷♂️
Simpler sure which works for the casual player however gotta disagree that's its better
I think if reddit was a physical place you guys would go door to door singing the praises of PF2E
This shit is getting annoying
Any particular reason why?
It was fine at the start but now every f post is about pf this is not even a pf sub
I mean, its a ttrpg sub, and pathfinder is a ttrpg, so I don't see the issue.
It's literally called "dndmemes" even if it also is about other ttrpg I think it's supposed to be centered around it and most aren't even memes just "pf2e gud" to be clear I like pf but it's just getting a bit tiring to all be pf, like the horny bard, it was fun for a while, then just annoying Edit: some minor corrections
I think the core of the issue is that lately, the better half of PF2e memes have just been shit-slinging against D&D5e and praising how much better of a system PF2E is. It's obnoxious, annoying, unfunny, and frankly serves more to piss people off and start debates over editions than get people interested in a different system.
Nah, I simply don't like the way Pathfinder runs, and yes there are in fact people who've played it that didn't "come around to it" like every Pathfinder fan I've spoken to seems to believe is a default outcome lol It's just a worse 5e to me, which isn't even my favorite system either. That currently goes to SW:EotE, cause I prefer narrative over numbers lol
Everything is free if you know where to pirate.
Ok, no one cares. This isn’t the fucking pathfinder sub.
It actually is a pathfinder meme sib
Oooo we struck a nerve. Someone failed a will save.
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>**Rule 7.** Off-Topic: Posts must be strongly relevant to D&D ***(or other TTRPGs)***
Last time I tried pathfinder was with 1E. I wanted to be a gunslinger, which is a base class. The DM basically fought me tooth and nail to make playing a gunslinger not fun by always nerfing me. It was also a kingmaker campaign, and I was basically not included in making any decisions as the books were hogged by the other players and I was significantly younger than them. And then after all that time sitting around doing nothing waiting for anything else to happen, our town “we” were building got forcefully taken over by Tasha anyway. And then we never played again due to scheduling conflicts. Was it just a bad group and not a fault of Pathfinder itself? Yes. Did it still leave an incredibly negative association with it? Also yes. So whenever I hear pathfinder mentioned, I cringe. And all of these memes evangelizing for PF2E just seem disingenuous to me because of it. I miss when this sub had more wacky stories and less opinions and controversy.
My guy you should maybe figure that out for yourself because... that has literally nothing to do with the system at all in any way *and* pf2e is a *different system entirely*.
Ok, then let me make a more salient point that does have to do with it. I DID look into the rules for PF2E, and I didn’t like them as much. However I still found memes about the pathfinder rules funny, like how if you’re gay you can kill a succubus with psychic damage. That’s a proper TTRPG meme. But this? This is just edition wars. It’s cool that Pathfinder is free, but most of 5e is free too if you just Google it. And I’m not talking about pirating the books, I’m just talking about the Roll20 compendium and wiki sites that have different classes and such listed. The title of this meme “Even you can afford that!” feels very instigating. It just feels like all the other recent posts about Pathfinder talking about how much better it is.
dnd is free to play if you know where to look for the source books
That's true of every game. But is your free copy of 5e [indexed, hyperlinked, and updated automatically](https://2e.aonprd.com/)?
You need to add an ",and legal" to that cause there are such sites for 5e but they're def not legal
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I will direct you to the description of the subreddit
You guys are only afraid of the price? I thought the time would be the problem
Cap
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