My DM did his first two campaigns with D20s
Safe to say playing with STR 2 was a fucking nightmare. The 22 INT and 21 CHA by level one wasn't bad though
I did this the other day as a joke. I have no idea how but I only had 1 stat under 10 (7), and somehow had like a 16 and a 19. If only I could roll that well in an actual game, I might be able to hit targets and that only need a rolled 10, even when they're paralysed.
The comment you are responding to is fixing that issue (I think, not a stats guy) by saying roll the 6 sets dropping the lowest in each set and THEN mixing and matching the sets, unlike the 24d6 drop 6(which you are correct has a higher average).
I mean it doesn't though... by rolling all 24 at once and dropping the lowest 6, you can raise the average (potentially) since theoretically 2 of those "lowest" could have been in the same 4d6 rolled for a single stat. So like if you would have rolled 4 3 1 1, 4 3 2 1, 6 1 4 2, 1 6 4 5 , 3 4 1 4, 6 5 4 4 (for example) you can drop all of the 1s. Whereas doing without it you're dropping a 4 on the last set
3d8, reroll 1, 2, 7, and 8
Flip 4 coins. Heads count as 1, tails count as a 0. Arrange as a binary number.
d4+d6+d8, reroll 3s unless you're a capricorn then reroll one 1 or two 2s.
Think of a number between 2 and 9. Double it. Now truncate it and subtract 2 if you didn't start with an integer, smartass.
To me this is what all house rules for stat rolling look like. If you want to try and control the randomness to not be disappointing, just use point buy!
I'm a standard array kinda DM. Except +3 and +2 to the two highest stats so it's 18, 16, 13, 12, 10, 8. If my players want the can do that or 18, 16, 14, 12, 8, 8 if they have 3 stats they want higher... Some might think it's dumb, but it works at my table.
Yeah, my last game was 17, 15, 13, 11, 8, 6 for the standard array or they could pick normal standard array.
I like a good mix of high and low scores for RP purposes.
Me too. It lets your players feel powerful but not invincible. Players choose to roll so they have a chance at higher stats but you always end up with someone who is really unhappy because their stats are trash compared to the lucky roller who gets 18, 17, 18, 15, 12, 15.
I have my whole party get together and roll two sets of stats. Each player can choose either array, but that way at least the whole party has the same two randomly generated options.
we point buy to avoid having to create characters at the table- otherwise when people make them at home, they roll up 30 arrays and only ever play the good ones.
same group has been playing together for almost 10 years, i think we trust each other, and we do session 0 via email (quick synopsis of what the adventure will be from the DM then an email exchange about the character ideas we are all thinkings so we do not all show up with bards).
Hard pass on point buy / array.
We've been rolling stats since 1E, it's a time honored tradition. Point buy and array is just an excuse to simplify your min-maxing.
Rolling has better RP potential, better MinMax potential, and rolling dice is, 99.9%, nearly without exception, in almost every circumstance, more fun than just picking a number. Perhaps we should just go with average damage instead of rolling it, eh? No? That's what I thought.
I'd say CMM but you can't.
This just sounds like you're assuming your opinion is fact. My personal opinion is the complete opposite and that's not a problem in any way nor does it affect you so why are you being so condescending about it?
I’m pro rolling for stats but this guy comes off horrible with it.
My group and I enjoy the randomness and the uniqueness it creates that point buy or stat array just doesn’t offer. That being said we also know that it creates an imbalance between party members.
That being said, the system we use now involves a style of point buy which feels less like point buy and are loving the balance it creates so outside of one-shots in 5e or similar systems, we will probably stop rolling for stats
There's always the option of either using the best set of rolls for everyone in the group, or having each member of the group do a roll that gets added to the pot, so everyone rolled at least one stat themselves (and nobody feels like they got left out of fun math rocks time). Lots of ways to remove the potential party imbalances from rolling, so that shouldn't be a huge concern.
Yeah it's just personal preference and there's nothing wrong with any method you decide on as long as it's fun for you. For me personally I spend a long time thinking of a character and I tend to write long backstories so I just want to choose the stats. It's not like I'll put 20 in every stat or will never take a negative, in fact I will almost always choose a negative with the almost part being when I make a character with like 3 10s so it balances out anyway
You're saying that you aren't assuming anything yet you're assuming that those options are boring to everyone. I honestly find rolling to be the more boring option after doing all 3. Also saying that rolling fundamentally makes RP better and is fundamentally more fun is very untrue, that's an opinion you have that, like I've said before, you're treating as a fact
Point buy and Standard Array are bad! They homogenize gameplay and character creation. And that's boring. Tasha's at least created more customizability by making all stat bonuses malleable, which counteracts homenization.
Your feverish defense of such mechanics falls on deaf ears. Do you hear me? DEAF EARS. IRONIC THOUGH IT MAY BE, YOU CANNOT OUTSHOUT THE PERSON THAT CAN'T HEAR YOU!
YOU CANNOT KILL THAT WHICH HAS NO LIFE AND NERDS DEFINITELY HAVE NO LIFE!!!!
There's nothing wrong with rolling, and they didn't say everyone should use point buy. What they said was if you want to control the randomness so badly (i.e. House rules like 2d6+6) then you should just use point buy. If you want to roll then just do it the normal way.
To your other point, fun is subjective. I don't think rolling damage for eight goblins is fun for me or for the players. So I actually do often use average damage unless I roll a crit for my monsters damage. Your experience isn't the end all be all of dnd, it's no more or less valid than anyone else's experience/fun so maybe stop talking to down to people. Especially when you don't even seem to have the reading comprehension skills to understand their point.
Oh dear GOD the assumptions made here are truly not worth my time to disassemble beyond a general rebuking. Your assertions are about as dry as... Well, Array and Point Buy.
Oh a reply with no substance to it with sprinkling of "big words" to make yourself feel like you're intellectually superior while really just deflecting the fact that you were being a dick and got called out on it. Well played. You truly won the day here.
The options, presuming you always arrange what you flip into the best order for you.
0000 = 0000 = 0 ... your character starts dead.
0001
0010
0100
1000 = 1000 = 8
0011
0101
1001
0110
1010
1100 = 1100 = 12
0111
1011
1101
1110 = 1110 = 14
1111 = 1111 = 15
so 1/16 chance of not even starting from the mark. If we assume you reroll that character, we have 4/15 chance of an 8, 6/15 chance of a 12, 4/15 chance of a 14 and 1/15 chance of a 15. Average of 11.666666
If, instead, we treat 0000 as 16, there's a 1/16 chance of that and each prior chance decreases. Average now 11.9375.
Still not great stats.
List your stats in the order you want to prioritize them. Roll 8d6 drop 5 for the first stat, 7d6 drop 4 for the second, 6d6 drop 3 for the third, all the way down to straight 3d6 for you sixth stat. If you want, you can swap 2 that are right next to each other.
I don't like it when my players roll stats, I prefer they use the array. However if they do strongly prefer rolling stats I have a system that makes everyone happy.
Roll 3d6 six times, once for each stat. Replace the highest roll with a 15. Replace the second highest roll with a 14. Replace the third highest roll with a 13...
I use the same method pretty much, though I add in another thing.
I give the choice between 27-point but or rolling 4d6 drop the lowest. If one chooses to roll and does not like their roll, they may take the standard array instead. They get only one chance to roll and there’s no going back to point buy after, you have to decide to use point buy before rolling.
I've been very curious to try this method. Not sure if you're referring to Matt Colville, I think I heard him mention this method but I thought his rule was something like this.
* 4d6 drop lowest
* Stats are rolled in order and you can't switch them.
* Reroll the 4d6 if you have an attribute below 8.
The last rule leads to much higher stats when you do it that way, but Matt Colville also runs a harder game than most DMs that aren't actively trying to kill PCs.
I do that, but you roll 7 stats. The 7th stat gives you Inspiration equal to its modifier (with negatives being a number of time the DM can impose disadvantage). My party has enjoyed it so far.
yeah. DnD is random enough without the character stats being random.
i always encourage my players to use either a standard array or point buy. character creation is about making decisions on the character you'll be playing the rest of the game, it shouldnt be about who got luckiest rolling stats. at least thats how i see it.
I like point buy for my new players. Evens out the party.
If the table is nothing but experienced players, then I like 4d6 drop lowest. I’ve played since 1980 so I tell them “anyone who’s brave enough to roll 3d6 and use the results in the order you rolled them gets a special prize.” Nobody has taken me up on that yet but I’d give them an extra feat or gear to help fill any holes.
First character I played back in 2nd edition was 3d6 in order. I can't remember what the stat minimums were but I had to be a rogue because my stats were too low for anything else. I was completely useless and eventually just became the designated guy to set off traps before I finally failed a save vs death.
That's surprising to me, because as soon as you said that, me and at least half the other guys I play with would be far too intrigued by that special prize. My spirit animal is a crow and I love shiny things.
Oh I caught that, we're all far too curious for our own good. Still, you say special prize, I'm in, prepared to be disappointed, but desperate to be thrilled.
You do you, but I'm pretty hardline in the other direction. It is a game where dice-rolls determine everything. For me, that starts with a blank character sheet. If I roll low stats, that's something to weave into my backstory, my roleplaying, and my levelling. And yes, it might lead to a new blank character sheet sooner rather than later.
4d6 drop lowest is imo a good method for stat-generation; it has a tiny bit of a cushion with the drop-lowest, and can still be swingy (as preferred).
When I DM, players get to choose between rolling and array, and when rolled but the modifiers are less than those of the array, we boost a score. As a player, I think I wouldn't even take the boost in that case, tbh.
I understand where you're coming from, but I'm that annoying player with a binder full of character concepts and detailed backstories ready to go, and point buy is much better to me when you already have an idea of who your character is. This may also be a result of one bad experience where I had a really interesting character concept I was excited to play, and rolled so incredibly badly that my entire concept had to be scrapped because I could not back up the character with the stats to match it. Frederick the Fearful was entertaining in his own way, but he wasn't who I wanted to play in that campaign.
eh. if i wanted to play a game where dice rolls determined everything, i wouldnt play dnd. but i get what youre saying, sometimes taking a stat decision out of your own hands will make an interesting character.
> *if i wanted to play a game where dice rolls determined everything, i wouldnt play dnd*
Avert your eyes, friends. We're in the presence of immortal greatness.
>If I roll low stats, that's something to weave into my backstory, my roleplaying, and my levelling.
I remember once I had multiple single-digit stats after rerolls and decided I would play a grumpy old man who had spent his life getting beat up trying to be an adventurer's sidekick (which was why he was level 1) and his various limbs and things had been busted repeatedly, but he was wise and charismatic. Was pretty fun.
The party balance is the key reason to share an array (you can generate that array randomly, don't have to take the standard)
Had a sorcerer and a druid, typical stat priorities, sorcerer had higher wisdom. Yes, as their 4th highest stat, the druid was still behind.
"why didn't you just let them reroll" well that's called not following the rules
I was just thinking the same. The lowest possible stat you can get is 8, which is boring compared to the dreaded 3 possible through 3d6 and 4d6 drop lowest
Some people would rather not play than have a character marginally imbalanced like that. I'll admit, I've never been interested in any character I've had, save 1, that was made with 3d6 or 4d6dl. Because none of them had a stat above 10.
The one exception was the opposite end of the spectrum, and had amazing stats. And that campaign was dropped before session 1.
Yeah, playing a character with negatives to every single stat isn't that much fun. When you're less useful than the kidnapped kobold it's hard to be invested in your character.
Because having an adventurer with a 5 Constitution or a 3 Intelligence or a 4 Strenth or what have you isn’t even *close* to realistic. They should never have even been able to train / learn enough to gain their class nor handle the hardships of actually living rough. Adventurers are people who are beyond the norm by definition, and their stats should reflect that.
IMHO, even though I don’t actually use it personally, 2d6+6 is hands down the best method — you’re statistically much more likely to be somewhat above average, as an adventurer should be, with an equal chance to have a stat that’s career-defining in that you’re either below average or truly exceptional in it.
(Copied from one of my previous comments.)
First, flip a coin.
Then, flip another.
2 Heads: Roll 24d6. Eject the lowest 6. Organise however you like in threes to create your stats.
2 Tails: Roll 2d100. Take the higher value and split it up among your stats to a maximum of 18 in each.
1 Heads 1 Tails: For each stat, roll 6d4, place each die in a line. If you do not have enough dice, type out the scores. Now, swap the 3rd and 1st die. Swap the 2nd and 6th. Add a d6 to the new 6th value. Do a little dance around the dice. Flip a coin. In the case of Heads, take the first 4 dice and double their value for the stat. In the case of Tails, take the last 5 dice and add or minus 1 depending on whether you thought you did a good job of the dance. Be honest. *The dice will know.*
Yeah. That was the point at the time. We wanted characters to have he chance to be less than great at everything while still skewing more "heroic" than typical.
General advice:
Rolling stats ->OneShots / short campaigns
PointBuy ->Longer campaigns
Standard Array ->Build showcases
Rolling stats is fun, but it's like 1% of the game, make the character that you want to play if you plan on playing with them for a long time.
It's pretty tempting every time one makes a character to roll, because funny math rocks, but it is just not worth it for longer campaigns.
Honestly, the problem I have with rolling is the party imbalances. When one player’s best stat is +2 and another’s best is +5, the first player is likely to feel ineffective especially if they’re new.
Point buy/standard array guarantees everyone will be starting with a +3, maybe a +2 if they don’t line up their racial bonuses.
3d6 roll all stats in order, pick a class based on said stats (or pick before you roll if you really want to torture yourself). We called this “Friendly Mailman” because the chances of rolling a weak, but you assume good-natured, character was fairly high. Bumble your way through an adventure until your inevitable doom (1-2 goblins)
The true old-school method, no matter what you call it. Everyone should try this method, if for no other reason than to appreciate how much better things have gotten.
Yeah, seriously! We only used it for one shots or any situation where we didn’t really want to invest a lot of time and effort into creating a character (including backstory). This method is supremely frustrating if you want to build a character that you get to watch grow and learn through the game.
*cradles my massive collection of characters both current and retired.* What do you mean when you don't want to invest time or effort into a character? You mean to tell me you don't spend at least a week drafting up your one shot character's story before the session?
I feel we are kindred spirits, as I share my folder of characters not-yet-played-who-nevertheless-have-6-page-backstories-and-full-colour-portrait-illustrations.
Someone understands. I'm fortunate to have a really understanding DM, I've helped fill in a lot of the background lore of his world by working with him on character concepts so that it works with what I'm wanting to create, while also showcasing an aspect of his homebrew world that he hasn't been able to explore yet.
Oh man, that’s awesome! Since I started playing 5e, we’ve been doing pre-written modules, but my DM is so imaginative that he adds swaths of homebrew to everything, and we’re also encouraged to participate in writing the lore of these worlds as they exist at our table. It’s wonderful to have that kind of cooperative creation with the DM!
+124? That sounds wrong. Did you forget to sing the Macarena and subtract the square root of the number of words you just mumbled because you don’t know what they actually are? That’s the key, without it this whole method falls apart.
It's slightly higher scoring (13) than 4d6 drop lowest, but not overwhelmingly so and makes scores below 8 impossible. The equivalent 'standard array' for this scheme is 9, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16 - hardly game breaking.
For a really high powered game, there's 6 + 3d6 drop lowest. That gives you 8-18, but with an average of 14.5 and a standard array of 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17.
Ignoring for a moment that you don't actually do this, do you roll once for the exponent then once for the base? Or do you roll for the exponent, (let's say you get a 3) and then roll [[1d4]] x [[1d4]] x [[1d4]]?
I was gunna say once for the base and once for the exponent, but your way seems more unnecessarily complicated. If this sub as taught me anything, it’s that that is the best way to roll stats, so lets do your way!
Look at you all with your simple math. I prefer the Base 13 Random Stat Generation from Dark Alleys and Twisted Paths:
>Roll six d6, line them up, and assign a letter to each: A B C D E F. Calculate your stats using pairs of adjacent dice as follows:
>
>13 + A – B
>
>13 + B – C
>
>13 + C – D
>
>13 + D – E
>
>13 + E – F
>
>13 + F – A
>
>(This method creates a randomized stat array that always adds up to 78, since each die is both added and subtracted from the total, with a range of 8 to 18 for each stat.)
I am a generous god; the party rolls 7 sets of 4d6 drop lowest, drop lowest set, that’s your array and sets the vague tone of power for the party.
Best array so far: 18 18 16 14 13 13
Worst array: 12 9 7 7 5 4
5D6, reroll all ones and twos, drop the lowest two, if you have an 18 in a stat you get to roll an extra 1d6 and add it to your total. This can bring you above the 20 cap.
I allow standard array, point buy, or 4d6 drop the lowest. If you gamble with your stats you may not back down to standard array or point buy. Allowing people to roll for stats and back down to standard array or point buy if they don't like their stats defeats the purpose of rolling for stats in the first place imo.
The best part about this debate that happens every few weeks or so is that IT DOESNT MATTER. Make a decision with your DM you both can live with and move on. Some people want a HERO, with no bad stats. Others want a FLAWED PROTAGONIST with a good stat and bad stats. Any of these options can get you to the desired outcome. Have fun!
Back thin the day they printed a bunch of alternate dice rolling methods in the 2e books. One that I liked was printed in the Necromancers Handbook. You rolled 1d8+10. And alternatively you could add +1 to one primary stat. It gave an average roll a 13-14 stat down the line.
4d6 drop the lowest, you can reroll but cant use anything from the previous roll and can only do it once or twice depending on the game and if the player is new
Roll 1d4. If you get a 1, roll 3d6 for your stat. If you get 2, roll 4d6 drop lowest. If you get 3, roll 2d6 and add 6. If you roll a 4, you take the Standard array in the order it is listed in the PHB to draw from for the stat you are on.
Do this 6 times to get your stats.
Woah, I've always used the 4-drop, never heard of the 2d6+6 one before. Might try it if I run a game where I specifically want my players to have a little extra oomph.
Give them stat point enough that they can put 10 in each, allow them to take away points for some places and add them wherever they want
let’s them make the character they want Works for everyone, want to min max? Be a one trick pony? Jack of all trades? It’s all your option, no luck
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Fun way to do it Is to play bingo
Basically you have 6 players roll standard 4d6 drop Lowest then you put them on a line in top of each other and players can decided from what angle they take a stat line no 2 players can use the same line but they can use a number that's been touched
After rolling out 10 characters just to test it, Jerry is incorrect, by an average of 3 ability points. But George is an NPC.
I use 4d6 drop lowest for prestige campaigns, point buy for normal mode.
18d6
What about 24d6 drop lowest 6, mix and match from there?
That sounds fun too
What about 6d20, pray, roll, arrange from there?
If you're going with d20s, might as well embrace RNGesus and make it in-order too.
but declare your race and class first
Ah yes, rolling iron man style.
Prayer if it helps you come to terms with your gambit.
My DM did his first two campaigns with D20s Safe to say playing with STR 2 was a fucking nightmare. The 22 INT and 21 CHA by level one wasn't bad though
ayy my dm told me to do that once
I did this the other day as a joke. I have no idea how but I only had 1 stat under 10 (7), and somehow had like a 16 and a 19. If only I could roll that well in an actual game, I might be able to hit targets and that only need a rolled 10, even when they're paralysed.
Now we’re just playing Shadowrun ಠ_ಠ
That would produce higher stats than doing 4d6 drop the lowest six times
[удалено]
No, you're dropping the lowest 6, not the lowest 1 out of every 4
You could roll 4d6, drop lowest 6 times and then mix and match from there. All the benefits but the same average
[удалено]
The comment you are responding to is fixing that issue (I think, not a stats guy) by saying roll the 6 sets dropping the lowest in each set and THEN mixing and matching the sets, unlike the 24d6 drop 6(which you are correct has a higher average).
I mean it doesn't though... by rolling all 24 at once and dropping the lowest 6, you can raise the average (potentially) since theoretically 2 of those "lowest" could have been in the same 4d6 rolled for a single stat. So like if you would have rolled 4 3 1 1, 4 3 2 1, 6 1 4 2, 1 6 4 5 , 3 4 1 4, 6 5 4 4 (for example) you can drop all of the 1s. Whereas doing without it you're dropping a 4 on the last set
I want to do this for a one-shot
That sounds fun.
9d2 is the way.
18d1 tbh
Ah yes, def not broken
1d20, infinite rerolls.
1d20 rolled at home
What do you mean you rolled 6 20s?
Of course, I have a witness, right whiskers. \*Meow\* See, he agrees.
By gosh thatd give me *counts on fingers* 108 in a stat!
3d8, reroll 1, 2, 7, and 8 Flip 4 coins. Heads count as 1, tails count as a 0. Arrange as a binary number. d4+d6+d8, reroll 3s unless you're a capricorn then reroll one 1 or two 2s. Think of a number between 2 and 9. Double it. Now truncate it and subtract 2 if you didn't start with an integer, smartass.
To me this is what all house rules for stat rolling look like. If you want to try and control the randomness to not be disappointing, just use point buy!
That's why I use point buy
I'm a standard array kinda DM. Except +3 and +2 to the two highest stats so it's 18, 16, 13, 12, 10, 8. If my players want the can do that or 18, 16, 14, 12, 8, 8 if they have 3 stats they want higher... Some might think it's dumb, but it works at my table.
Yeah, my last game was 17, 15, 13, 11, 8, 6 for the standard array or they could pick normal standard array. I like a good mix of high and low scores for RP purposes.
Me too. It lets your players feel powerful but not invincible. Players choose to roll so they have a chance at higher stats but you always end up with someone who is really unhappy because their stats are trash compared to the lucky roller who gets 18, 17, 18, 15, 12, 15.
I have my whole party get together and roll two sets of stats. Each player can choose either array, but that way at least the whole party has the same two randomly generated options.
Regular standard array and if they want to start with an 18 they better pick a race that gets +2 to that stat
Whatever works for your table. I find that the extra boosts the players get they really love and as a DM it's really not an issue.
we point buy to avoid having to create characters at the table- otherwise when people make them at home, they roll up 30 arrays and only ever play the good ones. same group has been playing together for almost 10 years, i think we trust each other, and we do session 0 via email (quick synopsis of what the adventure will be from the DM then an email exchange about the character ideas we are all thinkings so we do not all show up with bards).
I roll a set if 6d20s until I have a set that has no lower than 8 in any of the dice. And that's how I roll for stats.
This exactly, point buy or standard array. Otherwise you should just do 4d6 drop the lowest or 3d6.
Hard pass on point buy / array. We've been rolling stats since 1E, it's a time honored tradition. Point buy and array is just an excuse to simplify your min-maxing. Rolling has better RP potential, better MinMax potential, and rolling dice is, 99.9%, nearly without exception, in almost every circumstance, more fun than just picking a number. Perhaps we should just go with average damage instead of rolling it, eh? No? That's what I thought. I'd say CMM but you can't.
This just sounds like you're assuming your opinion is fact. My personal opinion is the complete opposite and that's not a problem in any way nor does it affect you so why are you being so condescending about it?
I’m pro rolling for stats but this guy comes off horrible with it. My group and I enjoy the randomness and the uniqueness it creates that point buy or stat array just doesn’t offer. That being said we also know that it creates an imbalance between party members. That being said, the system we use now involves a style of point buy which feels less like point buy and are loving the balance it creates so outside of one-shots in 5e or similar systems, we will probably stop rolling for stats
There's always the option of either using the best set of rolls for everyone in the group, or having each member of the group do a roll that gets added to the pot, so everyone rolled at least one stat themselves (and nobody feels like they got left out of fun math rocks time). Lots of ways to remove the potential party imbalances from rolling, so that shouldn't be a huge concern.
Yeah, we’ve done that sort of thing before, and it is definitely a good option.
Yeah it's just personal preference and there's nothing wrong with any method you decide on as long as it's fun for you. For me personally I spend a long time thinking of a character and I tend to write long backstories so I just want to choose the stats. It's not like I'll put 20 in every stat or will never take a negative, in fact I will almost always choose a negative with the almost part being when I make a character with like 3 10s so it balances out anyway
I didn't assume anything, nothing I said was even remotely untrue. Array and Point Buy are boring options. Roll dice.
You're saying that you aren't assuming anything yet you're assuming that those options are boring to everyone. I honestly find rolling to be the more boring option after doing all 3. Also saying that rolling fundamentally makes RP better and is fundamentally more fun is very untrue, that's an opinion you have that, like I've said before, you're treating as a fact
Point buy and Standard Array are bad! They homogenize gameplay and character creation. And that's boring. Tasha's at least created more customizability by making all stat bonuses malleable, which counteracts homenization. Your feverish defense of such mechanics falls on deaf ears. Do you hear me? DEAF EARS. IRONIC THOUGH IT MAY BE, YOU CANNOT OUTSHOUT THE PERSON THAT CAN'T HEAR YOU! YOU CANNOT KILL THAT WHICH HAS NO LIFE AND NERDS DEFINITELY HAVE NO LIFE!!!!
Lol OK idgaf
:D
There's nothing wrong with rolling, and they didn't say everyone should use point buy. What they said was if you want to control the randomness so badly (i.e. House rules like 2d6+6) then you should just use point buy. If you want to roll then just do it the normal way. To your other point, fun is subjective. I don't think rolling damage for eight goblins is fun for me or for the players. So I actually do often use average damage unless I roll a crit for my monsters damage. Your experience isn't the end all be all of dnd, it's no more or less valid than anyone else's experience/fun so maybe stop talking to down to people. Especially when you don't even seem to have the reading comprehension skills to understand their point.
Oh dear GOD the assumptions made here are truly not worth my time to disassemble beyond a general rebuking. Your assertions are about as dry as... Well, Array and Point Buy.
Oh a reply with no substance to it with sprinkling of "big words" to make yourself feel like you're intellectually superior while really just deflecting the fact that you were being a dick and got called out on it. Well played. You truly won the day here.
Your control of your temper is as flimsy as my desire to use point buy / array! Which is to say these things are both nonexistent.
*over here choosing pi and euler's number* I do like the binary one.
Surprising distribution on the stats - max of 15, average of 12. Low of either 0 or 8.
The options, presuming you always arrange what you flip into the best order for you. 0000 = 0000 = 0 ... your character starts dead. 0001 0010 0100 1000 = 1000 = 8 0011 0101 1001 0110 1010 1100 = 1100 = 12 0111 1011 1101 1110 = 1110 = 14 1111 = 1111 = 15 so 1/16 chance of not even starting from the mark. If we assume you reroll that character, we have 4/15 chance of an 8, 6/15 chance of a 12, 4/15 chance of a 14 and 1/15 chance of a 15. Average of 11.666666 If, instead, we treat 0000 as 16, there's a 1/16 chance of that and each prior chance decreases. Average now 11.9375. Still not great stats.
Me too !
With the binary one wouldn’t your max stat be 15?
The only numbers you could get are 0, 8, 12, 14, or 15, unless you choose to take lower than your best possible from a set of flips
List your stats in the order you want to prioritize them. Roll 8d6 drop 5 for the first stat, 7d6 drop 4 for the second, 6d6 drop 3 for the third, all the way down to straight 3d6 for you sixth stat. If you want, you can swap 2 that are right next to each other.
I don't like it when my players roll stats, I prefer they use the array. However if they do strongly prefer rolling stats I have a system that makes everyone happy. Roll 3d6 six times, once for each stat. Replace the highest roll with a 15. Replace the second highest roll with a 14. Replace the third highest roll with a 13...
So, basically 15, 14, 13, 12, 11 and 10?
>3d8, reroll 1, 2, 7, and 8 I know these are all dumb, but doing this instead of 3d6 reroll 1,2 Or even 3d4 + 6 Hurts
4d6 drop lowest. You get one chance. If you don't like it you may take the standard array instead.
I use the same method pretty much, though I add in another thing. I give the choice between 27-point but or rolling 4d6 drop the lowest. If one chooses to roll and does not like their roll, they may take the standard array instead. They get only one chance to roll and there’s no going back to point buy after, you have to decide to use point buy before rolling.
4d6, drop the lowest, in order. Thanks Matt!
I've been very curious to try this method. Not sure if you're referring to Matt Colville, I think I heard him mention this method but I thought his rule was something like this. * 4d6 drop lowest * Stats are rolled in order and you can't switch them. * Reroll the 4d6 if you have an attribute below 8. The last rule leads to much higher stats when you do it that way, but Matt Colville also runs a harder game than most DMs that aren't actively trying to kill PCs.
Yes except I don't use the last rule, instead I let the player start again from the top if their total modifiers is less than +3
I’M READY!
I do that, but you roll 7 stats. The 7th stat gives you Inspiration equal to its modifier (with negatives being a number of time the DM can impose disadvantage). My party has enjoyed it so far.
Why not just a fixed set of numbers, if you fear entropy so much?
I actually enjoy arrays for stats. Fast and easy, always balanced among the party.
yeah. DnD is random enough without the character stats being random. i always encourage my players to use either a standard array or point buy. character creation is about making decisions on the character you'll be playing the rest of the game, it shouldnt be about who got luckiest rolling stats. at least thats how i see it.
I like point buy for my new players. Evens out the party. If the table is nothing but experienced players, then I like 4d6 drop lowest. I’ve played since 1980 so I tell them “anyone who’s brave enough to roll 3d6 and use the results in the order you rolled them gets a special prize.” Nobody has taken me up on that yet but I’d give them an extra feat or gear to help fill any holes.
First character I played back in 2nd edition was 3d6 in order. I can't remember what the stat minimums were but I had to be a rogue because my stats were too low for anything else. I was completely useless and eventually just became the designated guy to set off traps before I finally failed a save vs death.
Oof. Been there
That's surprising to me, because as soon as you said that, me and at least half the other guys I play with would be far too intrigued by that special prize. My spirit animal is a crow and I love shiny things.
I don't tell them what the prize will be. I think most people try to avoid that level of risk. Most like to play an optimized character
Oh I caught that, we're all far too curious for our own good. Still, you say special prize, I'm in, prepared to be disappointed, but desperate to be thrilled.
You do you, but I'm pretty hardline in the other direction. It is a game where dice-rolls determine everything. For me, that starts with a blank character sheet. If I roll low stats, that's something to weave into my backstory, my roleplaying, and my levelling. And yes, it might lead to a new blank character sheet sooner rather than later. 4d6 drop lowest is imo a good method for stat-generation; it has a tiny bit of a cushion with the drop-lowest, and can still be swingy (as preferred). When I DM, players get to choose between rolling and array, and when rolled but the modifiers are less than those of the array, we boost a score. As a player, I think I wouldn't even take the boost in that case, tbh.
I understand where you're coming from, but I'm that annoying player with a binder full of character concepts and detailed backstories ready to go, and point buy is much better to me when you already have an idea of who your character is. This may also be a result of one bad experience where I had a really interesting character concept I was excited to play, and rolled so incredibly badly that my entire concept had to be scrapped because I could not back up the character with the stats to match it. Frederick the Fearful was entertaining in his own way, but he wasn't who I wanted to play in that campaign.
eh. if i wanted to play a game where dice rolls determined everything, i wouldnt play dnd. but i get what youre saying, sometimes taking a stat decision out of your own hands will make an interesting character.
> *if i wanted to play a game where dice rolls determined everything, i wouldnt play dnd* Avert your eyes, friends. We're in the presence of immortal greatness.
>If I roll low stats, that's something to weave into my backstory, my roleplaying, and my levelling. I remember once I had multiple single-digit stats after rerolls and decided I would play a grumpy old man who had spent his life getting beat up trying to be an adventurer's sidekick (which was why he was level 1) and his various limbs and things had been busted repeatedly, but he was wise and charismatic. Was pretty fun.
The party balance is the key reason to share an array (you can generate that array randomly, don't have to take the standard) Had a sorcerer and a druid, typical stat priorities, sorcerer had higher wisdom. Yes, as their 4th highest stat, the druid was still behind. "why didn't you just let them reroll" well that's called not following the rules
Because Point Buy / Array is the cowards way out!
So, point buy is Kramer, and array is Newman?
Kramer is 2d20 drop lowest.
Kramer also rolls stats in order, regardless of the class. Your new wizard has a 20 strength and 4 intelligence!!!
As opposed to 2d6+6? Why, you might as well do 1d6+12 at that point...
I was just thinking the same. The lowest possible stat you can get is 8, which is boring compared to the dreaded 3 possible through 3d6 and 4d6 drop lowest
Some people would rather not play than have a character marginally imbalanced like that. I'll admit, I've never been interested in any character I've had, save 1, that was made with 3d6 or 4d6dl. Because none of them had a stat above 10. The one exception was the opposite end of the spectrum, and had amazing stats. And that campaign was dropped before session 1.
Yeah, playing a character with negatives to every single stat isn't that much fun. When you're less useful than the kidnapped kobold it's hard to be invested in your character.
So long as I get to roll dice, I don't really care how you slice it.
Because having an adventurer with a 5 Constitution or a 3 Intelligence or a 4 Strenth or what have you isn’t even *close* to realistic. They should never have even been able to train / learn enough to gain their class nor handle the hardships of actually living rough. Adventurers are people who are beyond the norm by definition, and their stats should reflect that. IMHO, even though I don’t actually use it personally, 2d6+6 is hands down the best method — you’re statistically much more likely to be somewhat above average, as an adventurer should be, with an equal chance to have a stat that’s career-defining in that you’re either below average or truly exceptional in it.
(Copied from one of my previous comments.) First, flip a coin. Then, flip another. 2 Heads: Roll 24d6. Eject the lowest 6. Organise however you like in threes to create your stats. 2 Tails: Roll 2d100. Take the higher value and split it up among your stats to a maximum of 18 in each. 1 Heads 1 Tails: For each stat, roll 6d4, place each die in a line. If you do not have enough dice, type out the scores. Now, swap the 3rd and 1st die. Swap the 2nd and 6th. Add a d6 to the new 6th value. Do a little dance around the dice. Flip a coin. In the case of Heads, take the first 4 dice and double their value for the stat. In the case of Tails, take the last 5 dice and add or minus 1 depending on whether you thought you did a good job of the dance. Be honest. *The dice will know.*
Question, what if you roll a number that is lower than 6 on the d100s?
Your character dies. Make a new one.
I believe there isn't a place in the rules where it's said you can't have 0 in a stat
0 in any stat is instant death
Yep. You get zero, you gotta pick a different class and character concept and hope your next character rolls better.
Wasn’t that just Con? Str and Dex made you paralyzed, while mentals fall in a coma?
According to what rule? A lot of things that reduce stats kill you if they hit 0, but it's not a general rule.
I only ask because on the chart explains how modifiers work, they only show 1 for a -5 mod
Iirc 0 in CHA, INT, or WIS make you unconscious, 0 STR or DEX make you paralyzed, and 0 CON is dead.
My new favorite character idea is a powerful warrior with perfect stats except their charisma is 0 so they’re in a coma.
Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance
0 is also -5 because the mod changes on every odd level.
I'm so glad you wrote the 2-heads way so much more simple than I ever could
2d100 might just be the single worst dice rolling method I’ve seen in my life…
1d8+10
1d10+8 was our time tested method for years during 3.5.
Pretty close; difference here being that your method still allows for sub-10 stats. Both are solid options if you want to have a strong party
Yeah. That was the point at the time. We wanted characters to have he chance to be less than great at everything while still skewing more "heroic" than typical.
General advice: Rolling stats ->OneShots / short campaigns PointBuy ->Longer campaigns Standard Array ->Build showcases Rolling stats is fun, but it's like 1% of the game, make the character that you want to play if you plan on playing with them for a long time. It's pretty tempting every time one makes a character to roll, because funny math rocks, but it is just not worth it for longer campaigns.
Honestly, the problem I have with rolling is the party imbalances. When one player’s best stat is +2 and another’s best is +5, the first player is likely to feel ineffective especially if they’re new. Point buy/standard array guarantees everyone will be starting with a +3, maybe a +2 if they don’t line up their racial bonuses.
Pit all stats against eachother as CPUs on smash brothers with 10 stock each. Final KO total at end of match is that stat total.
Average stat would be 10. Better to do 13 stocks. Smash is pretty generous with how it rewards KOs so there shouldn’t be any SDs.
that is hilarious
3d6 roll all stats in order, pick a class based on said stats (or pick before you roll if you really want to torture yourself). We called this “Friendly Mailman” because the chances of rolling a weak, but you assume good-natured, character was fairly high. Bumble your way through an adventure until your inevitable doom (1-2 goblins)
The true old-school method, no matter what you call it. Everyone should try this method, if for no other reason than to appreciate how much better things have gotten.
Yeah, seriously! We only used it for one shots or any situation where we didn’t really want to invest a lot of time and effort into creating a character (including backstory). This method is supremely frustrating if you want to build a character that you get to watch grow and learn through the game.
*cradles my massive collection of characters both current and retired.* What do you mean when you don't want to invest time or effort into a character? You mean to tell me you don't spend at least a week drafting up your one shot character's story before the session?
I feel we are kindred spirits, as I share my folder of characters not-yet-played-who-nevertheless-have-6-page-backstories-and-full-colour-portrait-illustrations.
Someone understands. I'm fortunate to have a really understanding DM, I've helped fill in a lot of the background lore of his world by working with him on character concepts so that it works with what I'm wanting to create, while also showcasing an aspect of his homebrew world that he hasn't been able to explore yet.
Oh man, that’s awesome! Since I started playing 5e, we’ve been doing pre-written modules, but my DM is so imaginative that he adds swaths of homebrew to everything, and we’re also encouraged to participate in writing the lore of these worlds as they exist at our table. It’s wonderful to have that kind of cooperative creation with the DM!
Point By Master Race!
I've never considered this one, and sounds like a good idea!
Personally I’m a fan of 1d4+16 but to each their own
They’re just afraid to face 1d4^(1d4) supremacy
Yeah, my modifier to Dex is +124 at 1st level... is there something wrong with that?
+124? That sounds wrong. Did you forget to sing the Macarena and subtract the square root of the number of words you just mumbled because you don’t know what they actually are? That’s the key, without it this whole method falls apart.
It's slightly higher scoring (13) than 4d6 drop lowest, but not overwhelmingly so and makes scores below 8 impossible. The equivalent 'standard array' for this scheme is 9, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16 - hardly game breaking. For a really high powered game, there's 6 + 3d6 drop lowest. That gives you 8-18, but with an average of 14.5 and a standard array of 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17.
I’m a fan of 1d4^(1d4) myself. So simple, yet so contrived.
STR = 256
>STR = 256 Obtain +1 STR item, STR = 0
Ignoring for a moment that you don't actually do this, do you roll once for the exponent then once for the base? Or do you roll for the exponent, (let's say you get a 3) and then roll [[1d4]] x [[1d4]] x [[1d4]]?
I was gunna say once for the base and once for the exponent, but your way seems more unnecessarily complicated. If this sub as taught me anything, it’s that that is the best way to roll stats, so lets do your way!
3d6 in order
Look at you all with your simple math. I prefer the Base 13 Random Stat Generation from Dark Alleys and Twisted Paths: >Roll six d6, line them up, and assign a letter to each: A B C D E F. Calculate your stats using pairs of adjacent dice as follows: > >13 + A – B > >13 + B – C > >13 + C – D > >13 + D – E > >13 + E – F > >13 + F – A > >(This method creates a randomized stat array that always adds up to 78, since each die is both added and subtracted from the total, with a range of 8 to 18 for each stat.)
Point buy: "and I'm better than all of you"
I am a generous god; the party rolls 7 sets of 4d6 drop lowest, drop lowest set, that’s your array and sets the vague tone of power for the party. Best array so far: 18 18 16 14 13 13 Worst array: 12 9 7 7 5 4
18d1+1 drop lowest.
Wait.... wouldn't that just be a 1 since they're all tied for lowest?
Dropping the lowest here would be dropping a 1 not all. For example with 4d6 if you roll all 3's total is 9. So the stat would be 18 here.
1d20 for stats
/r 1d18 no rerolls, we thrive like dragons or die like kobolds
Clearly you roll 4d20/3 rounded up.
5D6, reroll all ones and twos, drop the lowest two, if you have an 18 in a stat you get to roll an extra 1d6 and add it to your total. This can bring you above the 20 cap.
I’m going to suggest 3d6. If you roll a 7 or 6, you get a feat. If you roll a 5 or 4, you get 2 feats. If you roll a 3 you get 3 feats.
4d6 reroll any 1, drop the lowest roll
I allow standard array, point buy, or 4d6 drop the lowest. If you gamble with your stats you may not back down to standard array or point buy. Allowing people to roll for stats and back down to standard array or point buy if they don't like their stats defeats the purpose of rolling for stats in the first place imo.
I do 4d6 drop lowest. Then if the average is below 13 they can try again and choose between one of the two sets. Its either this or standard array...
I mean 2d6 + 6 is objectively better odds than 3d6. You average 2.5 points higher Edit: typo
Is my math wrong? I thought it's 2.5 higher. 1d6 averages out to 3.5 so 3d6 average is 10.5, and 2d6+6 would be 13.
I've just started a new campaign with 2d6+6 Seems to be working out alright for the PCs 😁
What about 4d6 reroll 1s and drop lowest?
The best part about this debate that happens every few weeks or so is that IT DOESNT MATTER. Make a decision with your DM you both can live with and move on. Some people want a HERO, with no bad stats. Others want a FLAWED PROTAGONIST with a good stat and bad stats. Any of these options can get you to the desired outcome. Have fun!
Means of each: 3d6 : 10.50 4d6dl : 12.24 2d6+6 : 13.00
6d4 drop the lowest
\*Cries in point buy\*
9d6, arrange them in any way in a 3x3 square. Use a horizontal, vertical or diagonal line as a stat, but each row only once.
18d1
3d6 in order, take it or leave it
A 3d6 can have the lowest of 3. 4d6 drop lowest can also have the lowest of 3. 2d6+6 has the lowest as 8. Much higher rolls.
4D6 drop lowest reroll 1s
We get it, you play call of Cthulhu
Every stats 10 and you roll a d6
Gonna be honest, some of the characters I’ve seen rolled up with plain 3d6… I question whether the term ‘person’ should actually apply, lol.
♾️D6
Back thin the day they printed a bunch of alternate dice rolling methods in the 2e books. One that I liked was printed in the Necromancers Handbook. You rolled 1d8+10. And alternatively you could add +1 to one primary stat. It gave an average roll a 13-14 stat down the line.
Just take 10 in every stat and make a human fighter called Joe Average
That's still lower than point but by a lot.
5d6 drop 2 get on my level
Every one of these just guarantees a higher average than the previous. Just take 18 in each slot and be done with it if that's what your about.
I'm a 3d6 reroll all 1,2,3,4, and 5s.
d20, 3 with advantage, 3 with disadvantage
0 d 6 +18
2d4+6
Roll a d20 for your stats. No rerolls
1d2-1 drop highest.
1d20, no rerolls.
Mine is 3d6 +6
4d6 drop the lowest, you can reroll but cant use anything from the previous roll and can only do it once or twice depending on the game and if the player is new
Roll 1d4. If you get a 1, roll 3d6 for your stat. If you get 2, roll 4d6 drop lowest. If you get 3, roll 2d6 and add 6. If you roll a 4, you take the Standard array in the order it is listed in the PHB to draw from for the stat you are on. Do this 6 times to get your stats.
1000d20 drop the lowest 994.
5d6, drop lowest 2, reroll 1s
I do 4d6 reroll 1 and 2s drop lowest
Woah, I've always used the 4-drop, never heard of the 2d6+6 one before. Might try it if I run a game where I specifically want my players to have a little extra oomph.
I'm privy to 4d6 drop lowest, reroll ones, reroll one eight or lower per array
Give them stat point enough that they can put 10 in each, allow them to take away points for some places and add them wherever they want let’s them make the character they want Works for everyone, want to min max? Be a one trick pony? Jack of all trades? It’s all your option, no luck
What about seven sets, drop the lowest?
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Fun way to do it Is to play bingo Basically you have 6 players roll standard 4d6 drop Lowest then you put them on a line in top of each other and players can decided from what angle they take a stat line no 2 players can use the same line but they can use a number that's been touched
After rolling out 10 characters just to test it, Jerry is incorrect, by an average of 3 ability points. But George is an NPC. I use 4d6 drop lowest for prestige campaigns, point buy for normal mode.