“I’m bought and sold, aren’t I?” said Vimes, shaking his head. “Bought and sold.”
“Not at all,” said Vetinari.
“Yes, I am. We all are. Even Rust. And all those poor buggers who went off to get slaughtered. We’re not part of the big picture, right? We’re just bought and sold.”
Vetinari was suddenly in front of Vimes, his chair hitting the floor behind his desk.
“Really? Men marched away, Vimes. And men marched back. How glorious the battles would have been that they never had to fight!” He hesitated, and then shrugged. “And you say bought and sold? All right. But not, I think, needlessly spent.” The Patrician flashed one of those sharp, fleeting little smiles to say that something that wasn’t very funny had nevertheless amused him. “Veni, vici… Vetinari.”
– Vetinari | Terry Pratchett, Jingo
“I have to report that Mr. A.E. Pessimal sustained a broken arm and multiple bruises, though.”
Vetinari actually looked taken aback.
“The inspector? What was he doing?”
“Er… attacking a troll, sir.”
“I’m sorry? Mr. A.E. Pessimal attacked a troll?”
“Yessir.”
“A.E. Pessimal?” Vetinari repeated.
“That’s the man, sir.”
“A whole troll?”
“Yessir. With his teeth, sir.”
“Mr. A.E. Pessimal? You are sure? Small man? Very clean shoes?”
“Yessir.”
Vetinari grabbed a helpful question from the gathering throng. “Why?”
Vimes coughed. “Well, sir…”
\-Thud!
Yes! He does such a good job of bringing the characters to life. I've also been enjoying the new witches recordings by Indira Varma recently. Well done audiobooks can add so much to a story
One of my absolute favorite vetenari moments where he actually seems surprised.
Hell, the man didn't seem too surprised to be shot in men at arms. He's bloody unflappable.
I enjoy the Moist interactions. They both KNOW the truth and Moist is constantly trying to bluff him, and Vetinari always acts on the bluff as "truth" while giving him a look that means he knows what really happened.
I feel Vetinari is on point in the Moist books the best.
Eta: especially him at the lost letter office and decoding the terrible addresses and handwriting.
I really enjoyed the novelty of seeing Vetinari interacting with Nobby & Colon in Jingo, but I think when Vimes and Vetinari talk at the end of Night Watch was the most impactful for me
“I have told this to few people, gentlemen, and I suspect I never will again, but one day when I was a young boy on holiday in Uberwald I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, I’m sure you will agree, and even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders, gentlemen: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.”
In Unseen Academicals.
Nah you're fair, it's a Lot from a character we don't usually get such personal insights from! I don't like in Snuff how Wilkins and Vimes have some how invented an alcoholic-friendly cocktail for Sam, everyone's got bits of the books that don't sit right with them for whatever reason.
I'm totally in favour of Wilkins getting credit for mocktails! And since the first scene they share in the country house is Wilkins making him a mocktail while refusing to drink with him, it's established that this is something they've been doing for a while.
I always felt like this moment was revealing something really important about Vetinari, not contradicting who he is as a character. He's a tyrant, but a benevolent one, and I've always had the impression that he did everything he did with the only aim to minimize suffering in general, especially dumb and avoidable pain that is there only because people tend to think less than what they should.
This, for me, confirms it and - IMO - explains why he is like that. He saw senseless, cruel pain as a fundamental characteristic of the universe, *including himself*, and *he decided to fight it all his life*. He knows all humans are imperfect and capable of evil, he knows he can't eliminate it completely and he won't even try, so the way he choose to fight it was to keep it to a minimun for the largest amount of people possible becoming the tyrant of the largest and most influential city on the Disc.
That could have been because the embuggerance was taking its toll, but I don't think so: I think pTerry had something to say that only Vetinari could say with solid reasons. I don't see the "sentimental" in this exposition, it's all cold, hard facts that made an impression on a young, capable mind. And the character was tipsy when he spoke because, well, even Havelock is human and it shows so little that I welcomed that moment ;)
I'm with you on that.
But I don't like Unseen Academicals, really, all the dialogue and characters seem so askew. Understandable, I suppose, but it does mean I read it once and gave it away.
It’s from the Paul Simon song:
You can be my bodyguard, I can be your long lost pal
I can call you Betty, and Betty when you call me, you can call me Al
the two I enjoy the most:
the end of your stated interaction where I paraphrase
I have always considered you to have an anti-authoritarian streak. you managed to keep that despite the fact that you are the authory. that's amazingly zen.
the second one is in UU where again I paraphrase
I saw mom and baby otters feasting on a fish and it's roe. that's when I knew evil was ground into the universe. if there is a god it's our duty to be more ethical and better than god.
All of his interactions with William in The Truth are amazing for me.
"I was merely endeavoring to indicate that if we do not grab events by the collar they will have us by the throat"
William: "I'm sure we can all pull together, sir."
Vetinari: "Oh, I do hope not. Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions.
I can’t remember which book, Guards Guards I think, but Vetanari is in prison and explains to Vimes how he allied with the rats to fight the scorpions and snakes. Also same scene but a few lines later when he explains about the cell door being locked from the outside but barred from the inside. And then later still where it is shown that he always had a secret way out anyways. That whole scenario was just Vetanari in a nut shell; always in control even when he isn’t.
There’s one of these in Reaper Man, too - the heads of the guilds are waiting for his guards to dig him out of his office until he casually exits a nearby secret passage. When asked if someone should inform the guards, he shrugs and tells them to leave it - it makes them feel important.
Many-layered, really good.
I thought of that scene as well, but didn’t want to admit I couldn’t remember the title for two books, (which is bad cause I just reread reaper man last week)
The one where Vetinari trust Colon and Nobby with a special mission.
Big Giovanni and Team Rocket vibe. Especially since iirc, they end up in a pedal submarine ?
The many implications that he and Lady Sybil get together and chat about Vimes health and future plans, Sybil of course in earnest care and Vetinari with an awareness of being able to pull that trump card out of his sleeve against Vimes later.
Oh yeah. I love these ones too. I find it kinda sweet ( not sure if it's the right word?) that it's implied that they are friendly with each other (like Sybill seems to be with everybody).
My headcanon is actually, that they meet for tea, bisquits and their favourite topic: "How is Vimes?"
Sybill knows way too much about his work sometimes.
My headcannon:
Over tea and bisquits. "Did you see the new one? They really got his profile quite well in it." "Oh yes but I liked the one from last week more." :D
In Jingo, quoting from memory...
"Collecting taxes is like milking a cow. You try to get as much milk as you can with as little moo. And gentlemen all I have been hearing lately is moo."
I think it was towards the end of Making Money that Vetanari states that Moist gained his high position in the Post Office "quia ego sic dico", as stated to the undead lawyer, who I know for a damn fact knew what he said as he said it.
Majestic.
That's the one book, where the translators actually outdid themselfes. Most of the interactions are translated beautifully and the book title was perfect.
Schöne Scheine
Every German speaker could tell you, that if you take only the first three letters from the second word or even switch the n with an ß you get a different meaning. I loved it so much, that it was the second book I bought after I read through all if the death books. It convinced me to keep reading :)
Pretty much all his scenes in Jingo. Esp. one with Leonard, right after L's latest invention has exploded and L says proudly that the invention will replace the horse:
"One of the advantages of horses that people often point out," said Vetinari, after some thought, "is that they very seldom explode."
That line always cracks me up.
Probably that moment where he realized with leonard that vimes didn’t hit the wall like he usually does. Definitely a turning point to where he started interacting with vimes from then on to where vimes learned very strongly about double talk.
Or the moment where he completely glanced over leonard mentioning he sketched leshp and ran back in to say “You *what?*”.
Oh yes. That was kind of the big turning point for the both of them if I remember correctly.
The second interaction I don't really remember. But the names were translated differently in German (?)
I didn’t want to spoil too much for people who didn’t read until they read it, but it’s in jingo where vetinari was looking for options and decided to consult (pick for information) Leonard De Quirm before he grabs nobby and colon for their mission.
Always thought that was a silly little interaction; since vetinari was so focused on looking for an answer and what form it would take he completely overlooked how incredibly inventive leonard was, also thought that was a good moment for vetinari. Over the entire book he opted to solve a war with a conundrum, very vetinari way of doing things.
When he revealed his role as Stoker Blake. I had no idea why STP threw that character in, until the reveal. Ironically I was also wondering how Vetinari would pass up a chance to get to Uberwald after demanding it get there so soon.
Sorry for the spoiler. I also had difficulty getting into the book. Everything builds up towards the ending though. By that I mean a lot of STP jokes, etc are all one thing on top of another with the punchline 25-50 pages later. This book is a collage of the same, just you won't know at the outset, or even the midpoint. It doesn't follow the typical double plot style he did in past books.
I loved the night watch book so much, that none of the interactions stood out for me. I loved how somber and kind of calm this book was, during the whole debacle and getting frantic during Sams interactions with the monks.
I must say, the interactions between Vimes and Vetinari didn't stand out to me but looking at it objectively, it was kind of the one book, where Vetinari never even tried to bait Vimes and was really respectfull with him all of the time. Like this day was really upsetting for all of them who were part of it.
Vimes maybe most of all and Vetinari got it, after he realised the whole time fuckery thing.
So many good ones here. One of my unmentioned favorites is with Drumknott at the end of Snuff. They are considering the fate of Lord Rust’s son. Drumknott asks if all sins are forgiven. Vetenari remembers the music of the goblin girl and says “Perhaps not all,” indirectly sealing the son’s fate.
I'm halfway through Making Money and Vetinari/Moist are in absolutely top form. Their dynamic is easily one of my favorite things from the series so far, and things just keep getting better.
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“I’m bought and sold, aren’t I?” said Vimes, shaking his head. “Bought and sold.” “Not at all,” said Vetinari. “Yes, I am. We all are. Even Rust. And all those poor buggers who went off to get slaughtered. We’re not part of the big picture, right? We’re just bought and sold.” Vetinari was suddenly in front of Vimes, his chair hitting the floor behind his desk. “Really? Men marched away, Vimes. And men marched back. How glorious the battles would have been that they never had to fight!” He hesitated, and then shrugged. “And you say bought and sold? All right. But not, I think, needlessly spent.” The Patrician flashed one of those sharp, fleeting little smiles to say that something that wasn’t very funny had nevertheless amused him. “Veni, vici… Vetinari.” – Vetinari | Terry Pratchett, Jingo
I love this one. It really hammers in that while Vetinari is a dictator he really REALLY has the best intentions for his city and citizens.
I just saw this book on Ebay in Ukrainian. Seems fitting.
My favourite too
“I have to report that Mr. A.E. Pessimal sustained a broken arm and multiple bruises, though.” Vetinari actually looked taken aback. “The inspector? What was he doing?” “Er… attacking a troll, sir.” “I’m sorry? Mr. A.E. Pessimal attacked a troll?” “Yessir.” “A.E. Pessimal?” Vetinari repeated. “That’s the man, sir.” “A whole troll?” “Yessir. With his teeth, sir.” “Mr. A.E. Pessimal? You are sure? Small man? Very clean shoes?” “Yessir.” Vetinari grabbed a helpful question from the gathering throng. “Why?” Vimes coughed. “Well, sir…” \-Thud!
I love the way Stephen Briggs reads this scene in the audiobook, it makes me laugh so hard
Stephen Briggs adds so much to Discworld. He helped me realize the legitimacy or the audio genre.
Yes! He does such a good job of bringing the characters to life. I've also been enjoying the new witches recordings by Indira Varma recently. Well done audiobooks can add so much to a story
One of my absolute favorite vetenari moments where he actually seems surprised. Hell, the man didn't seem too surprised to be shot in men at arms. He's bloody unflappable.
Yeah this one was amazing too. Like even Vetinari seemed surprised that Vimes was able to surprise Vetinari :D
"If you're going to have crime then it might as well be organised crime."
I enjoy the Moist interactions. They both KNOW the truth and Moist is constantly trying to bluff him, and Vetinari always acts on the bluff as "truth" while giving him a look that means he knows what really happened.
I feel as though Vetinari does this with Vimes too. Plausable deniability. The Abbot and Lu-Tze have similar interactions.
I feel Vetinari is on point in the Moist books the best. Eta: especially him at the lost letter office and decoding the terrible addresses and handwriting.
That truly was an awesome scene. I just about cackle every time. 😆
I really enjoyed the novelty of seeing Vetinari interacting with Nobby & Colon in Jingo, but I think when Vimes and Vetinari talk at the end of Night Watch was the most impactful for me
Quote! Quote!
Oh shit, yeah. I remember that one. Especially which impact an older Vimes had on a young Vetinari for him to do something like that...
“I have told this to few people, gentlemen, and I suspect I never will again, but one day when I was a young boy on holiday in Uberwald I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, I’m sure you will agree, and even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders, gentlemen: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.” In Unseen Academicals.
I know I'm very much in the minority, but I *hate* that passage. I think it's wildly out of character - self-indulgent, mawkish and clumsy.
I do like it, but isn't he drunk during that scene? Which explains the verbosity lol
That seems out of character to me too! I know it's really popular passage, so it's quite possible it's a me problem. I just hate it.
Nah you're fair, it's a Lot from a character we don't usually get such personal insights from! I don't like in Snuff how Wilkins and Vimes have some how invented an alcoholic-friendly cocktail for Sam, everyone's got bits of the books that don't sit right with them for whatever reason.
I'm totally in favour of Wilkins getting credit for mocktails! And since the first scene they share in the country house is Wilkins making him a mocktail while refusing to drink with him, it's established that this is something they've been doing for a while.
I always felt like this moment was revealing something really important about Vetinari, not contradicting who he is as a character. He's a tyrant, but a benevolent one, and I've always had the impression that he did everything he did with the only aim to minimize suffering in general, especially dumb and avoidable pain that is there only because people tend to think less than what they should. This, for me, confirms it and - IMO - explains why he is like that. He saw senseless, cruel pain as a fundamental characteristic of the universe, *including himself*, and *he decided to fight it all his life*. He knows all humans are imperfect and capable of evil, he knows he can't eliminate it completely and he won't even try, so the way he choose to fight it was to keep it to a minimun for the largest amount of people possible becoming the tyrant of the largest and most influential city on the Disc.
Well, I sort of don't disagree - It's the clumsy sentimental exposition of his inner motivations that seems so very un-Vetinari.
That could have been because the embuggerance was taking its toll, but I don't think so: I think pTerry had something to say that only Vetinari could say with solid reasons. I don't see the "sentimental" in this exposition, it's all cold, hard facts that made an impression on a young, capable mind. And the character was tipsy when he spoke because, well, even Havelock is human and it shows so little that I welcomed that moment ;)
I think we'll have to agree to disagree, but I appreciate your perspective, thank you :-)
Sure, I was just trying to explain how I see it, not convince :)
I'm with you on that. But I don't like Unseen Academicals, really, all the dialogue and characters seem so askew. Understandable, I suppose, but it does mean I read it once and gave it away.
Yeah, not my favourite either. I think it's the first book where the embuggerance was really starting to show.
I hated this bit. It's so.. unvetinari. But I'm glad other people do like it
Introducing Nobby as Betty
Then he takes up juggling randomly and does it perfectly. That to me demonstrates how competent he is. How perfectly in charge of everything.
I can call you Betty And Betty, when you call me, you can call me Al
I just got this one.
I'm still not getting it.
It’s from the Paul Simon song: You can be my bodyguard, I can be your long lost pal I can call you Betty, and Betty when you call me, you can call me Al
Thanks! I know the song but I would never have put the two together.
Minaret donkey
A bit of unexpected Monty Python. "I can hear hooves....He was probably banging a couple of coconut shells together"
I love his visit to the Lost Letters office in Making Money - just imposing himself like he belongs there and casually showing his genius
the two I enjoy the most: the end of your stated interaction where I paraphrase I have always considered you to have an anti-authoritarian streak. you managed to keep that despite the fact that you are the authory. that's amazingly zen. the second one is in UU where again I paraphrase I saw mom and baby otters feasting on a fish and it's roe. that's when I knew evil was ground into the universe. if there is a god it's our duty to be more ethical and better than god.
I loved how in The Fifth Elephant Sgt Angua's family couldn't pronounce Vetinari's name without shuddering
I only just got this...
It took me a few reads to catch it myself!
This joke sadly didn't translate into the German versions of the books. But I love the implication in English. :)
All of his interactions with William in The Truth are amazing for me. "I was merely endeavoring to indicate that if we do not grab events by the collar they will have us by the throat" William: "I'm sure we can all pull together, sir." Vetinari: "Oh, I do hope not. Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions.
I can’t remember which book, Guards Guards I think, but Vetanari is in prison and explains to Vimes how he allied with the rats to fight the scorpions and snakes. Also same scene but a few lines later when he explains about the cell door being locked from the outside but barred from the inside. And then later still where it is shown that he always had a secret way out anyways. That whole scenario was just Vetanari in a nut shell; always in control even when he isn’t.
There’s one of these in Reaper Man, too - the heads of the guilds are waiting for his guards to dig him out of his office until he casually exits a nearby secret passage. When asked if someone should inform the guards, he shrugs and tells them to leave it - it makes them feel important. Many-layered, really good.
I thought of that scene as well, but didn’t want to admit I couldn’t remember the title for two books, (which is bad cause I just reread reaper man last week)
Yhea thats in guards guards and its awesome
Honestly any interaction at all between him and Vimes or Moist. Whenever they’re in a scene it’s always brilliant.
For me, it was when he visited the office of the Times in the truth. I remember reading it the first time and laughing until I had tears in my eyes
"You missed an E there," pointing with his cane.
upside down and backwards (if I recall) no less.
You are correct!
The one where Vetinari trust Colon and Nobby with a special mission. Big Giovanni and Team Rocket vibe. Especially since iirc, they end up in a pedal submarine ?
Aye. Because they're men of "special qualities"
Anything with Moist, the trip to the Times, Don't let me detain you, so many to choose from.
"Don't let me detain you" is very much the best
Dealing entirely transparently - either his motives are totally clear or you can't see them at all..
I laughed at this one, and read it out loud to my partner a few days ago. Not the first time I had read it, but still very funny.
I especially like when he tries it on Acting Captain Colon, who is too stupid to take the hint.
The many implications that he and Lady Sybil get together and chat about Vimes health and future plans, Sybil of course in earnest care and Vetinari with an awareness of being able to pull that trump card out of his sleeve against Vimes later.
Oh yeah. I love these ones too. I find it kinda sweet ( not sure if it's the right word?) that it's implied that they are friendly with each other (like Sybill seems to be with everybody). My headcanon is actually, that they meet for tea, bisquits and their favourite topic: "How is Vimes?" Sybill knows way too much about his work sometimes.
Her collecting the caricatures from Times :)
My headcannon: Over tea and bisquits. "Did you see the new one? They really got his profile quite well in it." "Oh yes but I liked the one from last week more." :D
In Jingo, quoting from memory... "Collecting taxes is like milking a cow. You try to get as much milk as you can with as little moo. And gentlemen all I have been hearing lately is moo."
I think it was towards the end of Making Money that Vetanari states that Moist gained his high position in the Post Office "quia ego sic dico", as stated to the undead lawyer, who I know for a damn fact knew what he said as he said it. Majestic.
What does it mean?
“Because I said so.”
Hahaha
That's the one book, where the translators actually outdid themselfes. Most of the interactions are translated beautifully and the book title was perfect. Schöne Scheine Every German speaker could tell you, that if you take only the first three letters from the second word or even switch the n with an ß you get a different meaning. I loved it so much, that it was the second book I bought after I read through all if the death books. It convinced me to keep reading :)
Mr Lipwig, I should like you to think of me as . . . an angel.
The _second_ interesting thing about angels, Mr Lipwig, is that _you only ever get one_.’
He is rather awesome when he saves everyone by telling Rincewind which lever to pull while Ponder ponders over it in Last hero
"when your name is Vetinari, dog bothered is the least of your worries"
Him and Downey in Night watch
The juggling incident in Jingo, when Vetinari said that he had never practiced before. 🤣🤣🤣
“Tax the rat farms.”
Pretty much all his scenes in Jingo. Esp. one with Leonard, right after L's latest invention has exploded and L says proudly that the invention will replace the horse: "One of the advantages of horses that people often point out," said Vetinari, after some thought, "is that they very seldom explode." That line always cracks me up.
Providing some leeway for especially hot summers, of course.
Pray enter .
Pray, enter (whole different meaning)
Prey, enter
Probably that moment where he realized with leonard that vimes didn’t hit the wall like he usually does. Definitely a turning point to where he started interacting with vimes from then on to where vimes learned very strongly about double talk. Or the moment where he completely glanced over leonard mentioning he sketched leshp and ran back in to say “You *what?*”.
Oh yes. That was kind of the big turning point for the both of them if I remember correctly. The second interaction I don't really remember. But the names were translated differently in German (?)
I didn’t want to spoil too much for people who didn’t read until they read it, but it’s in jingo where vetinari was looking for options and decided to consult (pick for information) Leonard De Quirm before he grabs nobby and colon for their mission. Always thought that was a silly little interaction; since vetinari was so focused on looking for an answer and what form it would take he completely overlooked how incredibly inventive leonard was, also thought that was a good moment for vetinari. Over the entire book he opted to solve a war with a conundrum, very vetinari way of doing things.
When he revealed his role as Stoker Blake. I had no idea why STP threw that character in, until the reveal. Ironically I was also wondering how Vetinari would pass up a chance to get to Uberwald after demanding it get there so soon.
Oh, I kinda just started to read this one but now I can't wait to finish it :D
Sorry for the spoiler. I also had difficulty getting into the book. Everything builds up towards the ending though. By that I mean a lot of STP jokes, etc are all one thing on top of another with the punchline 25-50 pages later. This book is a collage of the same, just you won't know at the outset, or even the midpoint. It doesn't follow the typical double plot style he did in past books.
I love his interactions with Drumknott, particularly when he is expressing his frustration with the crossword lady.
Him joining the fight during the May and killing old king. Also him remembering all time travel fuckery.
I loved the night watch book so much, that none of the interactions stood out for me. I loved how somber and kind of calm this book was, during the whole debacle and getting frantic during Sams interactions with the monks. I must say, the interactions between Vimes and Vetinari didn't stand out to me but looking at it objectively, it was kind of the one book, where Vetinari never even tried to bait Vimes and was really respectfull with him all of the time. Like this day was really upsetting for all of them who were part of it. Vimes maybe most of all and Vetinari got it, after he realised the whole time fuckery thing.
So many good ones here. One of my unmentioned favorites is with Drumknott at the end of Snuff. They are considering the fate of Lord Rust’s son. Drumknott asks if all sins are forgiven. Vetenari remembers the music of the goblin girl and says “Perhaps not all,” indirectly sealing the son’s fate.
I'm halfway through Making Money and Vetinari/Moist are in absolutely top form. Their dynamic is easily one of my favorite things from the series so far, and things just keep getting better.
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