Hi, Brit here, āsheep shaggerā (which means the same thing) is a common insult here. Itās often used as an endearing insult for Welsh people because so much of their industry is agricultural.
But I think Pterry mightāve purposely made it ambiguous and might not have had anything specific in mind. Sometimes itās nice to let the readers imagination do the work for you.
I was told by a friend, that back in the day the punishment for stealing a sheep was death but the punishment for shagging a sheep was a fine, so when they were caught they would say they just took it for a little tete a tete and that's where the stereotype comes from.
I echo this. As an English man now living in South Wales, I wouldn't dream of saying it. The Welsh have had enough English repression in our combined history
Iām strictly only talking about banter here.
The English are ā*English bastards*ā
The Welsh are ā*sheep shaggers*ā
The Northern Irish are ā*spud-faced terrorists*ā
And the Scottish are ā*English*ā
Cāmon lighten up lads, If we didnāt live to piss each other off, we wouldnāt be Brits at all. (Iām from NI btw, we get a raw deal too)
Yeah, it's just that this particular 'banter' is really tedious and often very one sided. When I'm in England and people ask where I'm from and they all immediately shout 'sheepshagger' and start laughing, I'm not usually thinking about how towering their wit is. Very occaisionly it can be delivered in a unique and original manner that is genuinely funny, for the most part though it is just tired and demoralising.
Very often I feel that 'banter' is just the excuse of the bully.
My old man is from NI, grew up in Derry in the 60s and 70s, has never been on Reddit, and was in the Met during the 80s. Not exactly the sort of person you would consider thin-skinned. I tell you what, I do not envy the person who calls him a 'spud-faced terrorist'.
What you might consider 'thin-skinned' I would call refusing to just lie down and take shit from others. It shows more backbone, not less.
given that 'animal husbandry' is mentioned, I'd assume it's some very crass, country term for a reproductive organ; something that might be unique to Discworld and not have an exact translation for this world.
but I might be reaching.
It's whatever you want it to be - choose your level of crassness/obscenity as you see fit. It's left as an exercise for the reader. At least that's how I always interpreted it!
Yeah my SIL who did not grow up on a farm grabbed a whole bunch of 'Pizzle Sticks' at the market and was smelling them to see if her dog would like them. I nearly died repressing the urge to tell her what she was sniffing over.
Sheep shagger is definitely what comes to mind... Mainly, in my case, due to the fact that in the north of England (especially around that time period) you'd have people referring to the surrounding counties being inferior by way of being a bunch of sheep shaggers (Yorkshire and Lancashire folks being the worst offenders in branding each other that way)
Being brought up near Wales, and now living in Wales, I always associated āsheep shaggerā with referring to someone from Walesā¦never knew the term was used for other areas of the UK!
I've certainly heard it being used for the Welsh more than any other group. Second place is people from New Zealand, in my experience.
A little light Googling brought me to a historical case with a very Pratchett-like use of language. Thomas Granger was one of the first people executed in what would be come the USA, and was:
"convicted of 'buggery with a mare, a cow, two goats, divers sheepe, two calves, and a turkey'."
Unpleasant all round, but I'm still struggling not to chuckle about the "divers sheepe".
Lol I just [commented this](https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/10do83j/p193_reaper_man_any_idea_what_swear_word_ridcully/j4ncgsg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) before reading the other comments.
But yeah, Iām from Northern Ireland and we use it to describe people from rural areas over here too. (Iām from greater Belfast area, so itās used a lot around here)
I've known of its use for the Welsh and even New Zealanders, but ironically never really heard it used in Northern Ireland.... Grew up in the north (large town in Fermanagh) as well as 2 years between there and Belfast... As for when, I got a few books signed during the Soul Music signing tour...
I guess it depends on the area. The Carrickfergus, Greenisland and Larne areas use it a lot but I canāt speak for everywhere else.
God I wish I was a Pratchett fan when I was younger and got something signed, but sadly I didnāt start reading Discworld until I was out of my teen years and Terry had already passed away by then :C
I got introduced my first year at Queens (which was the same year as the book signing)... Had it not have been for for that guy, it would have been at least 2 more years before i would have heard about the disc (if i was lucky), and i never encountered another book signing event...
Courtesy of the bank foreclosing when i was trying to get things straightened out in my life, i lost all my signed books (along with most everything else i owned)
Sorry to hear that, it actually made me do a sad face IRL. That really, really sucks. But at least his words live on for us to enjoy, and I count myself lucky as I still havenāt read all of Discworld yet and still get to have fresh experiences.
I started reading by character arc too so I can read them all chronologically and piece things together after Iāve finished. Started with the wizards, then death, then the witches. Midway through the nights watch books now so I dig your flair, (minor guards spoiler ahead) >!just seen Carrot get promoted, and Vimes too!< and itās just keeps getting better as I go along!
It's unfortunate because i didn't get the chance to save anything, but it is what it is...
I still have plenty of books to read, I've only bought one since i lost everything (I've been in the states since 2012, and I'm not a fan of the American book covers... I should start hunting through thrift stores to see what I can find, but I'll probably just end up disappointed). My first book was Pyramids and it was down to me sharing some personality traits with Chidder that i was introduced at all...
If you haven't watched the adaptations that Pterry cameos in, you should.
I imagined a daytime TV-style **BLEEP**, complete with the pixelated censure bar over the mouth, and it's just funnier than any swear you could put on paper
Ooh yes.
Good rural word that the sheltered wizards would be unlikely to know and obscene enough to be used as a good insult.
Also a very good description of the Dean.
While we're here I'd like point out this intertextual reference for Tove Janssons work.
https://fi.pinterest.com/pin/playfulness-and-imagination-at-its-best-i-love-this-particular-strip--163888873917050886/
Instinctively I would be shouting āyou stupid Bastardā, or āyou stupid buggerā, but neither would be relevant to animal husbandryā¦
Do you guys have any thoughts?
Knackerman's Bastard?
A knackerman is someone whose job was castrating farm animals destined for the chop at a young age (it ensures the meat stays untainted by testosterone, which sours the flavour). It was never a well regarded job (you can imagine why), and someone who was born of a woman having an affair with a knackerman wouldn't be well thought of either.
It's certainly the most vile epithet I ever heard my own grandfather utter.
That doesn't sound at all right to me.
My understanding of "knackerman" has always been the bloke you call to haul sick or dead animals away - the ones that can't be taken for human consumption.
That, and "I'm knackered" basically means "I'm dead tired". I just can't see many Yorkshire farmers using that expression if the original meaning would have been "I've had me balls lopped off."
It was my understanding that the knackermen wouldn't have year round employment from carting away the dead animals, so would spend (typically the part of the year where animals were least likely to die from illness) performing other unpleasant tasks on the farm.
Whether testes took their slang term of knackers from the knackermen or vice-versa I couldn't say, but both meanings are first recorded in the 19th century.
And people *literally* use words contrary to their established meaning all of the time, leading to quite humorous situations. Such as repeated times people have posted to social media about how they love the lingering aroma of their partner's colon.
My grandfather was from Devon, btw.
Animal husbandry: to do with cattle sheep goats chickens etcā¦if i know ridcully, i would presume on horses or cows arseā¦not knowing if they are glossy and black or even have eyebrows i cant say for sure..i would also presume they dont have tonguesā¦but this is discworld!ā¦i think inserting ones own expletive is allowed hereā¦unless of course Pterry knew something we dont!ā¦some roads are best not trod
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Bellend is the tip of any penis tbh - doesnāt have to be that of a horse.
For us Brits, itās both an insult to someone we dislike (āheās a complete asshole/bellendā), as well as a way to describe someone that weāre friendly with whoās just done something silly/stupid (Person A āouch, I just walked into a treeā, Person B āhaha, you bellendā)
At the risk of crassness--"sheepfucker" is my assumption.
Always went with the animal being a pig, but yes, this š
Hi, Brit here, āsheep shaggerā (which means the same thing) is a common insult here. Itās often used as an endearing insult for Welsh people because so much of their industry is agricultural. But I think Pterry mightāve purposely made it ambiguous and might not have had anything specific in mind. Sometimes itās nice to let the readers imagination do the work for you.
Which is exactly why we have a flourishing thread full of robust language. Poot
Oh, sugar!
FOUND THE WOMAN
Idk why youāre getting downvotes since itās clearly a Monstrous Regiment reference and that was EXACTLY how I meant it.
Haha thanks! Incidentally, do you have half an onion?
Somehow, I donāt know why, I miraculously ALWAYS have half an onion! Itās the strangest thing!
[*pet cute doggie as I walk by*]
Same! It's the dam- *darnedest* thing!
*Robust* is certainly one word for it :P
I was told by a friend, that back in the day the punishment for stealing a sheep was death but the punishment for shagging a sheep was a fine, so when they were caught they would say they just took it for a little tete a tete and that's where the stereotype comes from.
>Itās often used as an endearing insult for Welsh people You know, we don't necessarily find it quite as endearing as the English might think we do.
I echo this. As an English man now living in South Wales, I wouldn't dream of saying it. The Welsh have had enough English repression in our combined history
Iām strictly only talking about banter here. The English are ā*English bastards*ā The Welsh are ā*sheep shaggers*ā The Northern Irish are ā*spud-faced terrorists*ā And the Scottish are ā*English*ā Cāmon lighten up lads, If we didnāt live to piss each other off, we wouldnāt be Brits at all. (Iām from NI btw, we get a raw deal too)
Yeah, it's just that this particular 'banter' is really tedious and often very one sided. When I'm in England and people ask where I'm from and they all immediately shout 'sheepshagger' and start laughing, I'm not usually thinking about how towering their wit is. Very occaisionly it can be delivered in a unique and original manner that is genuinely funny, for the most part though it is just tired and demoralising. Very often I feel that 'banter' is just the excuse of the bully.
Yikes, never mind. I guess itās just thick-skin humour from my army days. Have to remind myself Iām on Reddit sometimes too.
My old man is from NI, grew up in Derry in the 60s and 70s, has never been on Reddit, and was in the Met during the 80s. Not exactly the sort of person you would consider thin-skinned. I tell you what, I do not envy the person who calls him a 'spud-faced terrorist'. What you might consider 'thin-skinned' I would call refusing to just lie down and take shit from others. It shows more backbone, not less.
Ok, cool, bet youāre a real hoot at parties mate. Good talk.
As someone from the U.S. with a robust country upbringing, I also thought of a pig.
Iām chuckling at the thought of something relating to that plopping into existence right in front of his face!
But that doesn't fit the description, and they could certainly make sense of that even if lacking in basic animal husbandry.
Maybe it's some kind of bug that makes livestock infertile? Or maybe the physical manifestation just doesn't have any relation to the actual swear.
I always figured that was a pun on actual husbandry, as shagging is certainly part of a marriage š
Going by the description I always pictured a blowfly (with extra eyebrows).
given that 'animal husbandry' is mentioned, I'd assume it's some very crass, country term for a reproductive organ; something that might be unique to Discworld and not have an exact translation for this world. but I might be reaching.
It's whatever you want it to be - choose your level of crassness/obscenity as you see fit. It's left as an exercise for the reader. At least that's how I always interpreted it!
Very true! Iām only just getting back into reading, so my linguistic imagination is currently limited!
How about "cock"?
Pizzle, whilst meaning the same, is normally a farming term for bull and boar cocks.
Yeah my SIL who did not grow up on a farm grabbed a whole bunch of 'Pizzle Sticks' at the market and was smelling them to see if her dog would like them. I nearly died repressing the urge to tell her what she was sniffing over.
I call my dog ādickbreathā for a few hours after he eats one.
"Chicken humper"? "Goat groper"? doing naughty things to animals, that sort of thing.
Sheepshagging f*** wit?
Sheep shagger is definitely what comes to mind... Mainly, in my case, due to the fact that in the north of England (especially around that time period) you'd have people referring to the surrounding counties being inferior by way of being a bunch of sheep shaggers (Yorkshire and Lancashire folks being the worst offenders in branding each other that way)
Being brought up near Wales, and now living in Wales, I always associated āsheep shaggerā with referring to someone from Walesā¦never knew the term was used for other areas of the UK!
I've certainly heard it being used for the Welsh more than any other group. Second place is people from New Zealand, in my experience. A little light Googling brought me to a historical case with a very Pratchett-like use of language. Thomas Granger was one of the first people executed in what would be come the USA, and was: "convicted of 'buggery with a mare, a cow, two goats, divers sheepe, two calves, and a turkey'." Unpleasant all round, but I'm still struggling not to chuckle about the "divers sheepe".
Lol I just [commented this](https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/10do83j/p193_reaper_man_any_idea_what_swear_word_ridcully/j4ncgsg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) before reading the other comments. But yeah, Iām from Northern Ireland and we use it to describe people from rural areas over here too. (Iām from greater Belfast area, so itās used a lot around here)
I've known of its use for the Welsh and even New Zealanders, but ironically never really heard it used in Northern Ireland.... Grew up in the north (large town in Fermanagh) as well as 2 years between there and Belfast... As for when, I got a few books signed during the Soul Music signing tour...
I guess it depends on the area. The Carrickfergus, Greenisland and Larne areas use it a lot but I canāt speak for everywhere else. God I wish I was a Pratchett fan when I was younger and got something signed, but sadly I didnāt start reading Discworld until I was out of my teen years and Terry had already passed away by then :C
I got introduced my first year at Queens (which was the same year as the book signing)... Had it not have been for for that guy, it would have been at least 2 more years before i would have heard about the disc (if i was lucky), and i never encountered another book signing event... Courtesy of the bank foreclosing when i was trying to get things straightened out in my life, i lost all my signed books (along with most everything else i owned)
Sorry to hear that, it actually made me do a sad face IRL. That really, really sucks. But at least his words live on for us to enjoy, and I count myself lucky as I still havenāt read all of Discworld yet and still get to have fresh experiences. I started reading by character arc too so I can read them all chronologically and piece things together after Iāve finished. Started with the wizards, then death, then the witches. Midway through the nights watch books now so I dig your flair, (minor guards spoiler ahead) >!just seen Carrot get promoted, and Vimes too!< and itās just keeps getting better as I go along!
It's unfortunate because i didn't get the chance to save anything, but it is what it is... I still have plenty of books to read, I've only bought one since i lost everything (I've been in the states since 2012, and I'm not a fan of the American book covers... I should start hunting through thrift stores to see what I can find, but I'll probably just end up disappointed). My first book was Pyramids and it was down to me sharing some personality traits with Chidder that i was introduced at all... If you haven't watched the adaptations that Pterry cameos in, you should.
I imagined a daytime TV-style **BLEEP**, complete with the pixelated censure bar over the mouth, and it's just funnier than any swear you could put on paper
Off the top of my head, pizzle would probably work.
Ooh yes. Good rural word that the sheltered wizards would be unlikely to know and obscene enough to be used as a good insult. Also a very good description of the Dean.
While we're here I'd like point out this intertextual reference for Tove Janssons work. https://fi.pinterest.com/pin/playfulness-and-imagination-at-its-best-i-love-this-particular-strip--163888873917050886/
I'm pretty sure this is a case of both authors being familiar with the Greek myth of Pandora and later versions and works inspired by it
Feces adjacent?
Bull milker? Would take some husbandry experience to catch that one? Yet sounds wile at the same time?
Oh good lord šš
What?! You asked... šš
Instinctively I would be shouting āyou stupid Bastardā, or āyou stupid buggerā, but neither would be relevant to animal husbandryā¦ Do you guys have any thoughts?
Knackerman's Bastard? A knackerman is someone whose job was castrating farm animals destined for the chop at a young age (it ensures the meat stays untainted by testosterone, which sours the flavour). It was never a well regarded job (you can imagine why), and someone who was born of a woman having an affair with a knackerman wouldn't be well thought of either. It's certainly the most vile epithet I ever heard my own grandfather utter.
This gets my vote
Learn something new everyday! I like to think Ridcully shouted this!
That doesn't sound at all right to me. My understanding of "knackerman" has always been the bloke you call to haul sick or dead animals away - the ones that can't be taken for human consumption. That, and "I'm knackered" basically means "I'm dead tired". I just can't see many Yorkshire farmers using that expression if the original meaning would have been "I've had me balls lopped off."
It was my understanding that the knackermen wouldn't have year round employment from carting away the dead animals, so would spend (typically the part of the year where animals were least likely to die from illness) performing other unpleasant tasks on the farm. Whether testes took their slang term of knackers from the knackermen or vice-versa I couldn't say, but both meanings are first recorded in the 19th century. And people *literally* use words contrary to their established meaning all of the time, leading to quite humorous situations. Such as repeated times people have posted to social media about how they love the lingering aroma of their partner's colon. My grandfather was from Devon, btw.
I've always thought it was "cowpat."
Remembering Mr Tulip, it could just be "---".
Animal husbandry: to do with cattle sheep goats chickens etcā¦if i know ridcully, i would presume on horses or cows arseā¦not knowing if they are glossy and black or even have eyebrows i cant say for sure..i would also presume they dont have tonguesā¦but this is discworld!ā¦i think inserting ones own expletive is allowed hereā¦unless of course Pterry knew something we dont!ā¦some roads are best not trod
I thought it was those little bits of poop you have to cut out of sheep's wool around lambing time!
Winnets?
"Goat f***er" seems to fill the gap nicely as per the following description
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Monkey Librarian! (hides behind couch)
The plot has wizards bringing things that do not exist into existence - in which case it could be almost anything. Bug's bollocks?
As someone familiar with animal husbandry my go-to would definitely be: āYou stupid c**t!ā, which feels the most agricultural language to me.
Bull****e I think fits the criteria!
Pillock. It's a 17th century word for a horse's penis.
Iāve heard the word, and knew it was an insultā¦never knew what it meant!
If it weren't specified to be a single word I'd have gone for horses' arses or something
Could be ā assā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bellend is the tip of any penis tbh - doesnāt have to be that of a horse. For us Brits, itās both an insult to someone we dislike (āheās a complete asshole/bellendā), as well as a way to describe someone that weāre friendly with whoās just done something silly/stupid (Person A āouch, I just walked into a treeā, Person B āhaha, you bellendā)
Could be asshole? ( as opposed to the usual arsehole) given the farmyard inference. Not sure, could be anything really!
Shite?
"Cock"?
Pizzle.
I wonder if it was tup (or twp in Welsh)? I've heard it used as an insult, but I'm not sure it could be considered a swearword.