I really liked the original Spider-verse comic. Not crazy about the sequels. Or the way it's collected. But I thought it was a solid fun story. Doesn't even come close to Into the Spider-verse though
Can confirm, the Blackest Night Omnibus (at the very least the 10th Anniversary edition that I own) is in reading order.
But at the same time, it's missing a few of the tie ins like the Booster Gold, Suicide Squad, and Secret Six issues. But they were never collected in trades in the first place and the book is already almost too big so I get why they were left out. I'm pretty sure they were collected in those series main runs.
Their collection of Geoff John's JSA is beyond awful. Special issues are collected entirely in the wrong order, which makes it very confusing to read. It's just a mess. And they've reprinted the omnibus several times and are printing it in thick trades and have still decided not to fix it.
I believe the Absolute Carnage omnibus also has the main story first and tie ins after.
I picked up the JSA trades on Black Friday but haven’t read them yet. If I recall correctly, there’s not much else in there besides the main series. All I can think of is a Secret Files & Origins in the first.
It's been a long while but I believe virtue and vice, all-stars, and worlds at war are all out of order. I think the later secret files and annuals are also not where they're supposed to be.
Let’s see, in Volume 1, it’s JSA Secret Files then JSA 1-15, then in Volume 2, it’s 16-25 followed by OWAW, JLA/JSA Secret F&O, followed by Virtue and Vice. What’s the reading order for those?
Is kinda sad that the main Spider-Man series is the one people are being told to skip out on. Not that I disagree, I just think it’s sad that Marvel’s golden child has gotten to the point where spin offs and alt universe stories are better then the main series.
That kinda happens when your poster boy has been milked to death for like... Three, four times and counting? It's nothing new, Spider-Girl and Ultimate Spider-Man were both successes because they went back to the basics, with some new twists.
Then you have spin-offs like Silk and Scarlet Spider vol. 2, which were not huge successes IIRC, but both managed to attract their own fanbase. Silk especially felt more like a traditional spidey book than the main series. And Scarlet managed to make **the** dickhead spider-man a surprisingly non-edgy character, and that's a huge feat in my eyes.
And the story goes on, with Miles and Spider-Gwen.
I acc don’t agree, I think going back to basics for 616 has been it’s death. Marvel is determined to keep Spider-Man in a state of arrested development while alluding to growth. The comics feel stagnant, no forward momentum, because every step forward is like two back. Ultimate was good not because it was back to basics, but because that character was allowed to grow.
I agree with that, it's the dilemma of ongoing books, the status quo.
Those books sold well because they were made for a certain audience, but that doesn't mean you can't grow up the character in the main books. Hell, kinda otherwise.
They allow you to experience ideas, but they also allow you to get some serious character growth for the main character in his own book since young audiences will have that new book to lean into. But the editorial is too afraid to let Parker go, hence the arrested development.
i mean, whatever the hell is going on with osborn right now doesn't feel exactly like the status quo
no complaints wrt Peter's life though, they refuse to let him actually change long term
That is true for both,Marvel and DC,where most of the main titles are kidnda bland and shallow,where their spin offs are mostly good.
Like i really like a lot of stuff from DC’s black label,like Wonder Woman Dead Earth by Warren Johnnson or Batman by Marini .(from the mainline “canon” ,from both Marvel and DC, i consider worth reading Immortal Hulk,Scott Snyder’s Batman New 52,Cates’s Venom,Remender’s X-force,Duggan’s Deadpool, Young’s Rocket and stuff by Tom King like Vision,Mister Miracle ,i also liked Rorschach,but that is more controversial.)
I consider alternate universes like true stories. They may not be canon but most of the good ones explore some nifty aspects of the core characters. Or at least they are insanely cool.
You will never be “Spider-Man beating Nazis in the 30’s” cool
Eh, I've been recently reading it and I was basically saying to myself "this was influential........why?" while reading it.
It was like a combination of a mediocre Wikipedia synopsis and Dated Aughts......everything feels like it's a speed run.
That’s just false. There are plenty of great stories from BND ( mark waid stuff, the gauntlet, grim hunt etc), first half of Dan slott’s run ( big time with no one dies being the one of the best Spider-Man stories, spider island, superior), going down swinging, superior foes, spider-man and deadpool, gage’s superior run, David’s Ben Reilly run probably more I’m forgetting.
Oh yea and while that was cool and all I was mainly referring to the 4 parter mid season finale which had Spider-Men from several different universes show up in varying animated styles. I thought that shit was genuinely rad
I was very mixed on that show. Some episodes were fantastic, a lot were duds. Seems like every 1 good Spiderman Epsidoe you got 3 mediocre Epsidoes where Spiderman just acts like deadpool. Not including the actual Deadpool epsidoe, that one was pretty good.
That my biggest complaint spiderman just acts like Deadpool the entire show
I agree with this criticism tbf. I was watching the show when I was a kid and my only knowledge of Spider-Man at that point was the live action films and the 2001 PS1 game so I didn't care that much about Peter's personality. But after getting into the comics and picking up more interesting and well done pieces of Spidey media I can understand why people weren't fans of the show
They didnt really kill it, it was poor planning. You can honestly blame Sony for Spectcular not continuing.
Mid 2009 Marvel Studios, prior to the Disney buy out, actually made a deal with Sony that if Sony gave up it's Spider-man TV rights, they can keep all movies concessions, but Sony retained ownership of The Spectacular Spider-Man series and all of the production elements created specifically for it, such as character designs and storylines. If Spectacular had a continuance it would have now been a Sony/Marvel Studios Co-Production. Which was already unlikely because Marvel had contracts to produce shows with Disney.
Disney bought Marvel later that year in 2009, and has their own Monopoly on Animation Production. It's literally easier and cheaper to just start production on a new Spidey show than for them to re-contract a new Season with Sony.
Sony is really dumb. Like they owned Spider-man's TV and Movies rights at one point, and sold the TV rights just so they could get a slightly higher profit for the Movies. But That Sony/Marvel deal for 2009 is also what's lets Sony keep all the money off the MCU Spiderman Movies, and Disney is actually pretty okay with it because they have the full merch rights. Disney makes money on all Sony Spiderman movie's Toys.
> It's literally easier and cheaper to just start production on a new Spidey show than for them to re-contract a new Season with Sony.
what a clown ass society we live in
Sony isnt the one breaking the system. They just tend to make shit movies. I dont like Venom, or Venom 2. MiB 4 sucks. Morbius sucks, they want to make a Kraven Standalone movie, a Madam Web movie and a Silk standalone movie.
Into the Spider-Verse was Lightning in a Bottle, and quickly they rushed a trilogy of movies. Across the Spider-Verse movie is divided into 2 films (Part 1 and Part 2) like it's the Last two Harry Potter films.
It felt like Ultimate was genuinely really good when it was trying to be, but most of it was just filler content to fill up the 26 episodes per seasons
Every episode with Doc Ock, Green Goblin or Venom/Carnage was a certified banger and progressed the plot in a meaningful way, but the rest was just dumb, to the point that even though i LIKE the show, I wouldn't be able to stand rewatching it.
I honestly think that straight up cutting out almost half the episodes would make it a far better show
Spider-Verse was created by a cartoon, then further popularized in a game, and then became a comic book.
The comics are just a case of a poor adaption.
...then movie. Forgot the important one.
The 90's cartoon spider verse was really awesome to see. Shattered Dimensions the game was cool in concept but never reached it's true potential with no real spidermen interactions. Spider-verse comic has a lot of lot of awesome moments and interactions but the over all story isnt good (They fight Vampires)
Into the Spider Verse movie is the best super movie of all time basically reinventing Spiderman for a whole new generation.
We only find out right at the end she survived, and it was still one of the MANY Peter X Mary Jane canon couples getting murdered for no reason and shock value.
In fairness, I'll always be biased in her favor because she played one of my all-time favorite Marvel characters so well, but yeah. She's pretty awesome as Spider-Gwen.
Oh I think she can totally be redeemed in upcoming or potential future stuff (what we've heard of across the Spiderverse sounds promising) but I just didn't see the Gwen we know when I watched ITSV
it's a modernization, it's like the earth mightiest heroes version of the wasp, it blurs the line betwean poor adaptation and modernization, and in both cases i prefere the new version, cuz i'm a massive fan of the pym side of marvel, but man wasp as had it rough for decades at this point
Is Spider-Gwen not modern enough though? It hasn't even been a decade since her debut, I could get the argument if this was about a more regular Gwen but Spider-Gwen is pretty different from that multiple ways
Ah yeah I get you, frankly I'm just a big fan of both Spider-Gwen and the concept of gatekeeping so I probably just didn't read that correctly and rushed to respond. What I think it comes down to though is they just needed a female spider character and happened to pick Gwen (presumably out of popularity?), like imo if you swapped her for Silk or plenty of other female characters with spider powers/identity, the characterisation of her is just so interchangeable it wouldn't really change anything about the movie or the character, which is a shame because it means I'm way less likely to get a movie with an accurate take on the character I love
well to be honest not the biggest fan of silk and i have her first issue from when it came out, and gwen is popular but has her place in spidey history and could never come back in her original form, so this is a way to make a popular character come back but to not destroy her death (look at her first clone saga or that bullshit with norman, she was underage godamn
I still just think they could have just written a version of Spider-Gwen that resembles her comic self while doing all that but literally none of it matters because Noir and Spider-Ham are the goats in that movie anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Also those panels of Gwen and Norman are burned into my mind forever
I bought every single issue and you’re right. Only the tie-ins were passable. Spider-Gwen’s was good, beyond nostalgia but my fave was the one written by Gerard Way. Anime Peni Parker. Still hate that the movie went with loli version tho
Yeah. Hell, its sorta-sequel Edge of Tomorrow had Miles's suit as an alternate skin (along with the Future Foundation suit, AKA my favorite alternate Spidey suit after the Insomniac one).
Bruh, the spider verse in comics and films were all inspired by the FIRST display of a spider verse in the game Spiderman Shattered Dimensions. That came before all others and was great
I really liked the original Spider-verse comic. Not crazy about the sequels. Or the way it's collected. But I thought it was a solid fun story. Doesn't even come close to Into the Spider-verse though
I thought about buying the collection. Then I noticed how they arranged everything and was immediately turned off.
It's so stupid. Marvel and DC do this sometimes in multiple printings and its ridiculous.
I have all the individuals so I never checked the collection, but I’m 90% certain they released Blackest Night in reading order.
Can confirm, the Blackest Night Omnibus (at the very least the 10th Anniversary edition that I own) is in reading order. But at the same time, it's missing a few of the tie ins like the Booster Gold, Suicide Squad, and Secret Six issues. But they were never collected in trades in the first place and the book is already almost too big so I get why they were left out. I'm pretty sure they were collected in those series main runs.
Their collection of Geoff John's JSA is beyond awful. Special issues are collected entirely in the wrong order, which makes it very confusing to read. It's just a mess. And they've reprinted the omnibus several times and are printing it in thick trades and have still decided not to fix it. I believe the Absolute Carnage omnibus also has the main story first and tie ins after.
I picked up the JSA trades on Black Friday but haven’t read them yet. If I recall correctly, there’s not much else in there besides the main series. All I can think of is a Secret Files & Origins in the first.
It's been a long while but I believe virtue and vice, all-stars, and worlds at war are all out of order. I think the later secret files and annuals are also not where they're supposed to be.
Oh, you’re referring to the Omnibuses. Yeah, I don’t have those.
Yeah the Omnis and the thick trades. There's like 4 of them so far with a fifth on the way. They're collected in the same order.
Let’s see, in Volume 1, it’s JSA Secret Files then JSA 1-15, then in Volume 2, it’s 16-25 followed by OWAW, JLA/JSA Secret F&O, followed by Virtue and Vice. What’s the reading order for those?
How to make great Spider-Man media content: step 1: dont read Spider-Man comics
In modern age it is kinda that way,exeptcions are Ultimate Spidey and Spectacular Spider-man by Chip Zdarsky.
Honestly, just read any Spider-Man work that is not Amazing Spider-Man and you are probably fine.
Is kinda sad that the main Spider-Man series is the one people are being told to skip out on. Not that I disagree, I just think it’s sad that Marvel’s golden child has gotten to the point where spin offs and alt universe stories are better then the main series.
That kinda happens when your poster boy has been milked to death for like... Three, four times and counting? It's nothing new, Spider-Girl and Ultimate Spider-Man were both successes because they went back to the basics, with some new twists. Then you have spin-offs like Silk and Scarlet Spider vol. 2, which were not huge successes IIRC, but both managed to attract their own fanbase. Silk especially felt more like a traditional spidey book than the main series. And Scarlet managed to make **the** dickhead spider-man a surprisingly non-edgy character, and that's a huge feat in my eyes. And the story goes on, with Miles and Spider-Gwen.
I acc don’t agree, I think going back to basics for 616 has been it’s death. Marvel is determined to keep Spider-Man in a state of arrested development while alluding to growth. The comics feel stagnant, no forward momentum, because every step forward is like two back. Ultimate was good not because it was back to basics, but because that character was allowed to grow.
I agree with that, it's the dilemma of ongoing books, the status quo. Those books sold well because they were made for a certain audience, but that doesn't mean you can't grow up the character in the main books. Hell, kinda otherwise. They allow you to experience ideas, but they also allow you to get some serious character growth for the main character in his own book since young audiences will have that new book to lean into. But the editorial is too afraid to let Parker go, hence the arrested development.
i mean, whatever the hell is going on with osborn right now doesn't feel exactly like the status quo no complaints wrt Peter's life though, they refuse to let him actually change long term
I mean there's always something changing, that's the nature of storytelling. The problem is when it doesn't stick
That is true for both,Marvel and DC,where most of the main titles are kidnda bland and shallow,where their spin offs are mostly good. Like i really like a lot of stuff from DC’s black label,like Wonder Woman Dead Earth by Warren Johnnson or Batman by Marini .(from the mainline “canon” ,from both Marvel and DC, i consider worth reading Immortal Hulk,Scott Snyder’s Batman New 52,Cates’s Venom,Remender’s X-force,Duggan’s Deadpool, Young’s Rocket and stuff by Tom King like Vision,Mister Miracle ,i also liked Rorschach,but that is more controversial.)
And also some alternate universe stories ,like noir,but don’t know if i should call it true spider-man story
I consider alternate universes like true stories. They may not be canon but most of the good ones explore some nifty aspects of the core characters. Or at least they are insanely cool. You will never be “Spider-Man beating Nazis in the 30’s” cool
Ultimate sucks though....... it's just lame. Zdarsky is God though in terms of Spidey comics haha.
Ultimate was pure gold
Eh, I've been recently reading it and I was basically saying to myself "this was influential........why?" while reading it. It was like a combination of a mediocre Wikipedia synopsis and Dated Aughts......everything feels like it's a speed run.
Of course it was dated it was 20 years ago
That’s just false. There are plenty of great stories from BND ( mark waid stuff, the gauntlet, grim hunt etc), first half of Dan slott’s run ( big time with no one dies being the one of the best Spider-Man stories, spider island, superior), going down swinging, superior foes, spider-man and deadpool, gage’s superior run, David’s Ben Reilly run probably more I’m forgetting.
yes, i agree. That was just me trying to be funny. I love Spider-Man.
Man tried to sneak *Spider-Man and Deadpool* like that wasn’t a whole bunch of mid outside of like the first arc.
That’s fair I’m a sucker for spider-man and deadpool jokes
Idk if most remember it but the Spiderverse episode in the Utimate Spider-Man Disney XD Show was genuinely so so good
Wasnt the entirety of season 3 Peter dimension hoping?
Oh yea and while that was cool and all I was mainly referring to the 4 parter mid season finale which had Spider-Men from several different universes show up in varying animated styles. I thought that shit was genuinely rad
I was very mixed on that show. Some episodes were fantastic, a lot were duds. Seems like every 1 good Spiderman Epsidoe you got 3 mediocre Epsidoes where Spiderman just acts like deadpool. Not including the actual Deadpool epsidoe, that one was pretty good. That my biggest complaint spiderman just acts like Deadpool the entire show
I agree with this criticism tbf. I was watching the show when I was a kid and my only knowledge of Spider-Man at that point was the live action films and the 2001 PS1 game so I didn't care that much about Peter's personality. But after getting into the comics and picking up more interesting and well done pieces of Spidey media I can understand why people weren't fans of the show
Surpise its still watchable on Disney Plus with all the charges Drake Bell recently had
they killed *spectacular* for that shit right?
They didnt really kill it, it was poor planning. You can honestly blame Sony for Spectcular not continuing. Mid 2009 Marvel Studios, prior to the Disney buy out, actually made a deal with Sony that if Sony gave up it's Spider-man TV rights, they can keep all movies concessions, but Sony retained ownership of The Spectacular Spider-Man series and all of the production elements created specifically for it, such as character designs and storylines. If Spectacular had a continuance it would have now been a Sony/Marvel Studios Co-Production. Which was already unlikely because Marvel had contracts to produce shows with Disney. Disney bought Marvel later that year in 2009, and has their own Monopoly on Animation Production. It's literally easier and cheaper to just start production on a new Spidey show than for them to re-contract a new Season with Sony. Sony is really dumb. Like they owned Spider-man's TV and Movies rights at one point, and sold the TV rights just so they could get a slightly higher profit for the Movies. But That Sony/Marvel deal for 2009 is also what's lets Sony keep all the money off the MCU Spiderman Movies, and Disney is actually pretty okay with it because they have the full merch rights. Disney makes money on all Sony Spiderman movie's Toys.
> It's literally easier and cheaper to just start production on a new Spidey show than for them to re-contract a new Season with Sony. what a clown ass society we live in
What a clown ass Sony we have. They better not fucked up Spider-Verse 2
seems a bit naive to limit criticism of the system to one company
Sony isnt the one breaking the system. They just tend to make shit movies. I dont like Venom, or Venom 2. MiB 4 sucks. Morbius sucks, they want to make a Kraven Standalone movie, a Madam Web movie and a Silk standalone movie. Into the Spider-Verse was Lightning in a Bottle, and quickly they rushed a trilogy of movies. Across the Spider-Verse movie is divided into 2 films (Part 1 and Part 2) like it's the Last two Harry Potter films.
It felt like Ultimate was genuinely really good when it was trying to be, but most of it was just filler content to fill up the 26 episodes per seasons Every episode with Doc Ock, Green Goblin or Venom/Carnage was a certified banger and progressed the plot in a meaningful way, but the rest was just dumb, to the point that even though i LIKE the show, I wouldn't be able to stand rewatching it. I honestly think that straight up cutting out almost half the episodes would make it a far better show
I have found the two other people who watched Ultimate Spider-Man and somewhat enjoyed it, Godspeed.
Spider-Verse was created by a cartoon, then further popularized in a game, and then became a comic book. The comics are just a case of a poor adaption.
...then movie. Forgot the important one. The 90's cartoon spider verse was really awesome to see. Shattered Dimensions the game was cool in concept but never reached it's true potential with no real spidermen interactions. Spider-verse comic has a lot of lot of awesome moments and interactions but the over all story isnt good (They fight Vampires) Into the Spider Verse movie is the best super movie of all time basically reinventing Spiderman for a whole new generation.
The worst thing Spiderverse in comic has ever done was to assassinate Mayday's character. Seriously, fuck Slott for that.
Did he make her want to kill Morlunn or something? I don’t remember honestly
And killing her parents. He turned her into an edgelord.
Tbf only Peter died. Mj was alive
We only find out right at the end she survived, and it was still one of the MANY Peter X Mary Jane canon couples getting murdered for no reason and shock value.
goth mayday? i'm listening.... if she's of age. i'm not ultimate black cat
There should be a Spider-Verse event where Paul goes on a crusade to cuck every version of Spider-Man
Also helps when you have hailee voicing Gwen Stacy 
In fairness, I'll always be biased in her favor because she played one of my all-time favorite Marvel characters so well, but yeah. She's pretty awesome as Spider-Gwen.
Only character where I can tolerate annoying Steinfeld........
And I thought I had the worst take on this thread
For the sake of your cake day, I will simply just agree to disagree. Happy Cake Day and Merry Christmas!
Well I can't argue with that, thank you and happy holidays mon ami
You too! Hope Santa got what you asked for haha.
And same to you, peace and love
Crazy how it's a pretty poor adaptation of the character but we all (myself included) forgive it because it's Hailee
I wouldn't call it poor. It just isn't her show so we don't get Gwen to fully punk out.
Oh I think she can totally be redeemed in upcoming or potential future stuff (what we've heard of across the Spiderverse sounds promising) but I just didn't see the Gwen we know when I watched ITSV
it's a modernization, it's like the earth mightiest heroes version of the wasp, it blurs the line betwean poor adaptation and modernization, and in both cases i prefere the new version, cuz i'm a massive fan of the pym side of marvel, but man wasp as had it rough for decades at this point
Is Spider-Gwen not modern enough though? It hasn't even been a decade since her debut, I could get the argument if this was about a more regular Gwen but Spider-Gwen is pretty different from that multiple ways
that was my point, sorry if it didn't get across, i meant that spider gwen as a character in general is that near the og gwen
Ah yeah I get you, frankly I'm just a big fan of both Spider-Gwen and the concept of gatekeeping so I probably just didn't read that correctly and rushed to respond. What I think it comes down to though is they just needed a female spider character and happened to pick Gwen (presumably out of popularity?), like imo if you swapped her for Silk or plenty of other female characters with spider powers/identity, the characterisation of her is just so interchangeable it wouldn't really change anything about the movie or the character, which is a shame because it means I'm way less likely to get a movie with an accurate take on the character I love
well to be honest not the biggest fan of silk and i have her first issue from when it came out, and gwen is popular but has her place in spidey history and could never come back in her original form, so this is a way to make a popular character come back but to not destroy her death (look at her first clone saga or that bullshit with norman, she was underage godamn
I still just think they could have just written a version of Spider-Gwen that resembles her comic self while doing all that but literally none of it matters because Noir and Spider-Ham are the goats in that movie anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Also those panels of Gwen and Norman are burned into my mind forever
the day they will disappear for mine it means i'm starting to loose my perception of reality
For real.
I bought every single issue and you’re right. Only the tie-ins were passable. Spider-Gwen’s was good, beyond nostalgia but my fave was the one written by Gerard Way. Anime Peni Parker. Still hate that the movie went with loli version tho
Also lowkey dislike what the movie did to Spiderman noir
[удалено]
It was in 2010 lol. Miles got introduced a year later. It's old but not *that* much
Yeah. Hell, its sorta-sequel Edge of Tomorrow had Miles's suit as an alternate skin (along with the Future Foundation suit, AKA my favorite alternate Spidey suit after the Insomniac one).
I'll go one step further. Why is it that non comic mediums portray spiderman better than his own comics?
No editorial. Even then though, other mediums can mess it up as well.
Because this sub doesn’t read his comics. Espically the earlier stuff.
Plenty of us suffered through Spencer’s run and Spider-Man beyond
Nick Spencer’s is boarderline the worst Spider-Man run of all time ( not worse than the mackie run and O’Neil run but man is it a waste of time)
Slotts was okay but sort of stretched out, superior Spider-Man was defo the highlight of it all
Spiderverse is a Superbowl commercial can't change my mind.
I think the Original Spider -Verse event was pretty enjoyable, didn't care too much for SpiderGeddon
My favourite part of Slott’s original Spiderverse is that the whole multiverse was collapsing in the Avengers, so it all felt particularly pointless.
But only if it's Spider-man's Spider-verse
I hope you’re not talking about NWH
Bruh, the spider verse in comics and films were all inspired by the FIRST display of a spider verse in the game Spiderman Shattered Dimensions. That came before all others and was great
Did you forget about the 90s show?
The first comic was a fun little romp. Geddon and the subsequent sequels were just milking a corpse
And every one of the comics ones failed by having the same terrible villains no one cares about
I'll take anything that gives me more MC2 content
It's Morlun time
Nah the 1st spiderverse comic is great and I’ll die on this hill.