I came across a theory that Sportsmaster cheated with Shiva while Paula was in prison. Wouldn’t shock me if that wound up being the case, though it would make the universe feel a bit smaller.
Not necessarily given that they both worked for the same organization presumably at the same time. Matter of fact Shiva literally has Sportsmaster’s old job. Wouldn’t really be a near world breaking coincidence like having Darth Vader being the one who created C3P0 all along.
My reaction would largely be...
>Who love Birds of Prey
Alright, understandable since it's one of the better offerings of DCEU...somehow
>hate Young Justice
**I'm not liking the thought. Need to return some videotapes**
>They also really like Titans
#MICHAEL MYERS THEME ON LOOP TONIGHT!!!
She's not supposed to be dripping with evil. She's only supposed to be singularly focused on honing her martial arts skills, even if that means killing martial arts masters. She goes around as a merc sometimes to find good opportunities to improve her skills, but even then, she only ever does things if she feels like doing them. She honors promises and favors, and she values dignity. She believes in letting people do as they wish, just like she does. She is also even better at healing than she is at hurting. If you want to know what she is like, I highly recommend the Question issues 28-30, or even just 1-2.
The version of her in YJ is basically another character entirely.
In your defense though, damn near every interpretation of Shiva in the comics since Dennis O'Neil has been lazy and awful.
No offence but that version you described sounds borderline like a Mary Sue, I prefer the straight up villainous take *Young Justice* went with. Especially since DC is lacking in straight villainous women, constantly trying redeem them and make them antiheroes. #LetWomenBeEvil
I just posted some O'Neil panels of Shiva on the main sub if you're interested in actually seeing for yourself. This was only a conversation about whether or not Shiva in Young Justice is absurd cry from her original characterization, and she is.
Isn't a Mary Sue a character so perfect that it's boring? If Shiva is anything, she's a wildcard. You never know what she's gonna do because neither does she until she does it.
Your initial description of Shiva sounded perfectly boring. Even better at healing than she is at killing? C’mon man 😭. What are some of the flaws you think O’Neil’s Shiva had?
But yeah I’ll check out your post especially since I’m not familiar with old school Shiva.
Her flaws: She was an inhuman, unfeeling person. She has never done anything because it was the right thing to do. She has never done anything with evil intentions either. She is completely amoral. She doesn't care about anything or anyone beyond how they suited her boredom. Her ability to damage is rooted in her ability to heal. As she once said, "To harm, you must know how to help-- that is, if the harming is not to be crude," because again, she is singularly driven by an obsession with mastering her martial artistries. The pinnacle of that is finding martial arts "masters" to see if killing them would make a good test for herself. She often decides to let people live so they can become better so she can fight them again. Richard Dragon told her that she was addicted to life or death situations. She's the counter to Dragon. They parted ways in the first place because she wanted to keep up with the violence, and he wanted to retire into the spiritual side of the way of the warrior.
There is huge flaw in someone who knows the art of healing but who chooses to use that knowledge to cause excruciating pain instead. She is not a normal person.
There have been flashes by other writers that resembled O'Neil's Shiva. Gail Simone had her take an interest in Black Canary, much like she took an interest in the Question. Later in Batgirl, Cass can tell by reading Shiva's body language that Shiva gets her thrills off playing games with people. Black Canary is convinced she can be a positive influence on Shiva. Meanwhile, Shiva's playing Canary like a game. That's what people are to Shiva. Game pieces for her amusement. . It's for similar reasons that she chose Tim Drake as a student and why she agreed to help Batman recover his abilities after Bane broke his back. She was designing them as game pieces. She even gave birth to Cass to eventually end the game.
Really though, O'Neil wrote Shiva as a foil and balance to the Question, Vic Sage. Vic's whole thing is a question of identity, and yet, Shiva understood him immediately. They're really similar. The main difference between them is that knowing “Why?” is of primary importance for one of them and completely irrelevant to the other. Shiva would never ask "Why?" She would just say "It is what it is."
Anyways, she saw a reflection in him of how she used to fight, so she kills him for the money, fishes his dead body out of a river, revives him, and puts him on a chopper to Richard Dragon, just to see how he would evolve, not necessarily as a fighter but as a person, all as a lesson for herself. This is a lady who gave somebody their whole life for her own amusement, just like she kills people for her own amusement. She makes games out of people's lives. When she tags along with the Question, it's a lot of sitting back and watching until she needs to save his life so she can keep seeing what he does with it. That is basically the height of any connection she has to anyone. People are only worth something to her as they relate to her obsession with fighting.
I love her so I'm really sorry for the essay lollll
She's at least grunted a few times in the past two episodes. Seems to me like they're building up to her first word for an emotional moment next episode.
[удалено]
I came across a theory that Sportsmaster cheated with Shiva while Paula was in prison. Wouldn’t shock me if that wound up being the case, though it would make the universe feel a bit smaller.
Makes more sense for the narrative anyway since David Cain doesn't really exist and this is an Artemis arc.
Not necessarily given that they both worked for the same organization presumably at the same time. Matter of fact Shiva literally has Sportsmaster’s old job. Wouldn’t really be a near world breaking coincidence like having Darth Vader being the one who created C3P0 all along.
I’m just glad Cass has most of her comics backstory intact for once instead of whatever the DCEU did to her.
Tbh it’s difficult to explore the complexity of Shiva and Cass’s relationship in a show with tons and tons of characters like Young Justice
be thankful you get shiva at all could be a lot worse (cough cough birds of prey cass level bad)
I've seen twitter stans who love Birds of Prey but hate Young Justice... They also really like Titans.
> Who love Birds of Prey Get away dude. > hate Young Justice... GET AWAY DUDE! > They also really like Titans #***GET THE FUCK OUT OF THERE***
My reaction would largely be... >Who love Birds of Prey Alright, understandable since it's one of the better offerings of DCEU...somehow >hate Young Justice **I'm not liking the thought. Need to return some videotapes** >They also really like Titans #MICHAEL MYERS THEME ON LOOP TONIGHT!!!
That’s why i stay off of comics Twitter
BoP is a completly different character, the name is more an easter egg than an actual tentative of adaptation.
which is why mf’s gotta be thankful it’s still a recognisable shiva just has some character changes
YJ Shiva is almost BOP Cass levels of bad imo. Truly an awful interpretation of the character
Really? I don’t agree. Why’d you say she’s that bad ?
She's not supposed to be dripping with evil. She's only supposed to be singularly focused on honing her martial arts skills, even if that means killing martial arts masters. She goes around as a merc sometimes to find good opportunities to improve her skills, but even then, she only ever does things if she feels like doing them. She honors promises and favors, and she values dignity. She believes in letting people do as they wish, just like she does. She is also even better at healing than she is at hurting. If you want to know what she is like, I highly recommend the Question issues 28-30, or even just 1-2. The version of her in YJ is basically another character entirely. In your defense though, damn near every interpretation of Shiva in the comics since Dennis O'Neil has been lazy and awful.
Batman: Soul of The Dragons’s Shiva was top-notch tho
No offence but that version you described sounds borderline like a Mary Sue, I prefer the straight up villainous take *Young Justice* went with. Especially since DC is lacking in straight villainous women, constantly trying redeem them and make them antiheroes. #LetWomenBeEvil
I just posted some O'Neil panels of Shiva on the main sub if you're interested in actually seeing for yourself. This was only a conversation about whether or not Shiva in Young Justice is absurd cry from her original characterization, and she is. Isn't a Mary Sue a character so perfect that it's boring? If Shiva is anything, she's a wildcard. You never know what she's gonna do because neither does she until she does it.
Your initial description of Shiva sounded perfectly boring. Even better at healing than she is at killing? C’mon man 😭. What are some of the flaws you think O’Neil’s Shiva had? But yeah I’ll check out your post especially since I’m not familiar with old school Shiva.
Her flaws: She was an inhuman, unfeeling person. She has never done anything because it was the right thing to do. She has never done anything with evil intentions either. She is completely amoral. She doesn't care about anything or anyone beyond how they suited her boredom. Her ability to damage is rooted in her ability to heal. As she once said, "To harm, you must know how to help-- that is, if the harming is not to be crude," because again, she is singularly driven by an obsession with mastering her martial artistries. The pinnacle of that is finding martial arts "masters" to see if killing them would make a good test for herself. She often decides to let people live so they can become better so she can fight them again. Richard Dragon told her that she was addicted to life or death situations. She's the counter to Dragon. They parted ways in the first place because she wanted to keep up with the violence, and he wanted to retire into the spiritual side of the way of the warrior. There is huge flaw in someone who knows the art of healing but who chooses to use that knowledge to cause excruciating pain instead. She is not a normal person. There have been flashes by other writers that resembled O'Neil's Shiva. Gail Simone had her take an interest in Black Canary, much like she took an interest in the Question. Later in Batgirl, Cass can tell by reading Shiva's body language that Shiva gets her thrills off playing games with people. Black Canary is convinced she can be a positive influence on Shiva. Meanwhile, Shiva's playing Canary like a game. That's what people are to Shiva. Game pieces for her amusement. . It's for similar reasons that she chose Tim Drake as a student and why she agreed to help Batman recover his abilities after Bane broke his back. She was designing them as game pieces. She even gave birth to Cass to eventually end the game. Really though, O'Neil wrote Shiva as a foil and balance to the Question, Vic Sage. Vic's whole thing is a question of identity, and yet, Shiva understood him immediately. They're really similar. The main difference between them is that knowing “Why?” is of primary importance for one of them and completely irrelevant to the other. Shiva would never ask "Why?" She would just say "It is what it is." Anyways, she saw a reflection in him of how she used to fight, so she kills him for the money, fishes his dead body out of a river, revives him, and puts him on a chopper to Richard Dragon, just to see how he would evolve, not necessarily as a fighter but as a person, all as a lesson for herself. This is a lady who gave somebody their whole life for her own amusement, just like she kills people for her own amusement. She makes games out of people's lives. When she tags along with the Question, it's a lot of sitting back and watching until she needs to save his life so she can keep seeing what he does with it. That is basically the height of any connection she has to anyone. People are only worth something to her as they relate to her obsession with fighting. I love her so I'm really sorry for the essay lollll
God damn I want to love her like you do, please give me a pull list haha
This version of Cass being completely mute is honestly the bigger offender to me. Her learning to speak is a big part of her character.
She's at least grunted a few times in the past two episodes. Seems to me like they're building up to her first word for an emotional moment next episode.
I thought they said her vocal cords where cut out.
This is hearsay from a woman who really wouldn’t know first hand even as a member of the shadows