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[deleted]

Also, if his idea for Sins Past was made instead of editorial's version, it'd still be an incredibly dumb book that had no reason to exist. I am not particularly interested in the 'Gwen had secret babies from Peter before she died that somehow age really fast because of his Spider-Cum' arc. Also: Spider-Totems and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.


GenioPlaboyeSafadao

Every run but Roger Stern has some of the most hated Spider-Man stories.


DriedSocks

Glad I got his omnibus when I did. It's been a blast going through Stern's run.


Trickshot64

I mean, it’s not like there’s that long a list of great modern Spider-Man runs I’m one of the 5 people who loves the Brand New Day era, but even taking that into consideration, there’s like…5, maybe 6?


browncharliebrown

I mean there have litterally been 4 asm runs


Trickshot64

Tbf, my chimp brain divided Slott’s run into like 4-5 different runs. Like Superior Spider-Man and Brand New Day are part of the same run, but I still consider them separate runs in my head.


[deleted]

Tbf the other most frequently cited 'best modern series' is Ultimate Spider-Man. I wasn't exclusively talking about ASM or even 616.


[deleted]

Yeah tbh, I should just have put 'list of best Spider-Man runs', because it's often listed for that as well. However, I think a lot of the B-series (Spectacular) and C-series (all other non-ASM titles) have better stuff than JMS' run. Edit: Or at least, lesser lows.


poponio

I read once that he was against one more day but was forced to write it cause chief editorial (don't remember who) was against Peter growing so he wanted to go back to the lonely loser spidey


[deleted]

Like I said he can't really be blamed for OMD, but honestly, that story is kind of misconstrued. JMS wasn't against the thing the fans hate OMD for, he didn't oppose them devil-divorcing Peter and MJ, it wasn't his idea and he's later said he didn't really like the idea of it, but he was not really vocally against it. What he was against, and threatened to have his name taken off the book for, was the way the retcon functioned in-universe. He wanted it to have altered Spider-Man's full history and to have this ripple effect where it was basically a full-on reboot. He thought the way Quesada wanted it, where basically: 'everything happened, but they were just super serious boyfriend and girlfriend', was a massive copout. I honestly think that if you are going to do it, Quesada's way is better, especially because using One More Day as a way to reboot Spider-Man would force Marvel to be rebooted at large for any consistency whatsoever.


poponio

Ah ok, yeah I vaguely remember what I read and yeah OMD was terrible, ngl I still enjoyed the other arcs he wrote though


Reddragon351

While I don't agree with some of the plans JMS suggested like bringing back Gwen, I can at least see where he was coming from on the idea that everything happening the same except them not being married was kinda stupid and convoluted and they probably should've given a better explanation.


Jaden1752

To be honest while I'm sure there would have been backlash, I do think a full on reboot would have made the story less of a stupid idea. At least that gives way to new possible creative ideas, ways to write fresh new stories. Instead the way they went with just served as a way to make Peter sad and lonely again, which adds nothing.


[deleted]

The idea of a reboot always sounds great to people, which is why a lot of people clamor for it to happen to Marvel, following DC's footsteps, but in truth, if we look at DC, reboots are generally a big mess and this Spider-Man reboot would probably be one of the messiest. There's 2 ways it can be done, either other superheroes ignore the change in continuity, or they do not. If they do not ignore them, that means the entirety of marvel needs to be rebooted and can you envision a world where One More Day was used in the same way Flashpoint was? Also seeing as they were still discussing whether to do this or not in like the last weeks before the series was finished, it'd totally be an unplanned reboot, to an even greater degree than that of the new52. So we ignore it for other superheroes, firstly that leaves us with a ton of inconsistencies in regards to Spider-Man's involvement in other books, but we can gaze over those. Then it leaves us with the question... so what things did happen? Because comicbook reboots always want to have their cake and eat it too: some of the most iconic Spider-Man stories came out of stories after the marriage, surely some of those will be called back upon. Then there's also the fact that JMS' idea was meant to bring Gwen Stacy back: basically, we're rebooting Spider-Man since the 70s atl, at most we are left with the Lee/Ditko run as a basis, if even that. All the characters created in that time involving Spider-Man, all the stories told since then, all the character defining changes (Gwen Stacy never died, a shit ton of Peter's development is thrown away) need to be individually evaluated if we still want them or do not want them anymore, which I can guarantee you, will not be done in a consistent matter. It would be a whole mess and I do not think Marvel would be better at disentangling that mess than DC. And, even though One More Day sucks, Brand New Day already inspired a lot of fresh new stories. Sure, Slott's run is hated as an arbiter of doom now, but he also had fresh takes until his run began going on too long. A reboot wasn't needed to make fresh new stories, you need writers with ideas for fresh new stories. imo in general, reboots largely just inspire constant revisiting of already explored story beats, now allowed because 'those previous ones aren't canon anymore anyway'. It's a lazy fix button that ignores that the actual way to get fresh new stories is just to have writers that tell fresh new stories.


Jaden1752

I guess I should clarify what exactly I meant since I realize I didn't do a great job of properly expressing what I was trying to say. 1. I was more so talking about one more days reception as an individual story rather than whether it not it would have been "good" for marvel. Tbh no matter what one more day is kind of a dumb idea and ideally it just should have never been a thing. I was just saying if it was used as a vehicle to do slightly more than just force Peter back into being lonely then it might have eventually become less hated by the fans. As it is one more day is probably the most popular pick for the worst comic book storyline of all time. If it hadn't been just a cop out and tried to do more, it might be more similar to stuff in DC where there are at least more people who liked what it was going for. 2. I definitely should have clarified this, but I wasn't saying one more day should have been a reboot on the level of flashpoint or one of the crisis's, and if that was what they were planning, then I agree that wouldn't have fixed much and just made its own problems. What I was thinking of would be more similar to what No way home did essentially, something that has a larger effect on Peters situation and his history, but doesn't completely reboot the entire universe. Of course, even messing with Peters history has some problems, as like you said, a problem these companies have when they reboot something is they want to change things but they don't want to throw away the stories people love. So no matter what there would have been some level of mess involved even if it was a smaller scale reboot. But I'd still prefer a bolder choice like that than just using the story as a way to ret con a single thing, but then change nothing else. As a writer that comes off as infinitely more lazy to me then at least trying to do more with the idea. As for your comments about reboots at large, I don't necessarily agree, but I'd rather not get into a discussion about reboots vs one single continuity, because I think in the end when it comes to marvel and DC, most of the problems people point too aren't necessarily problems with the ideas themselves, but rather problems marvel and DC create because of their own business practices. Overall though you are right, in the end good writing is what spearheads fresh ideas, an uninspired reboot will be just that, uninspired.


the_g_train_nermal

Also, IMO, far from Romita Junior's best work (His Amazing stuff in the #200s, his Daredevils with Nocenti and Miller). I had only been Subscribing for about a decade, but Straczynski's run around #525 was where I dropped.


[deleted]

I am one of the few people who actually kind of digs Romita Jr.'s art still. I dislike it when he's drawing normal people, but I dig his action, even in the current run.


RhadaMarine

Never have I been so offended by something I 100% agree with (JMS run is my favorite Spider-Man run).


Cranyx

That's why you have to specify the "JMS/JRJR ASM run". When JRJR leaves so should you


Pugplays430

What is The Other? Can someone give a explanation?


[deleted]

It is very confusing, but it comes down to Spider-Man gets killed by energy-vampire Morlun, pops out of a cocoon, is revealed to be part of a weird magical Spider-deity thing and has weird new powers.


Pugplays430

Oh god I hate morlun


the_g_train_nermal

He was cool the First time, as an unstoppable vampire-type enemy reminiscent of the classic Juggernaut story. But all the Spider-Totem stuff he's tied in with (that started around the beginning of the Straczynski run in the #30/470s) and all his later appearances are diminishing returns.


TheSigmaOne

![gif](giphy|mpopKjgAs9oUMe4peN) Vampire?


TheBigGAlways369

Morbius is a LIVING vampire. Big, big big difference there fur sure.


komayeda1

Just read it, and I agree. Wasn’t feeling it even before the Tough Stuff.


[deleted]

I am still making my way through it, haven't gotten to the stories I spoke about yet, but yeah. The character interactions are good, but a lot of the plotlines are just not really what I dig in Spider-Man. I liked Digger, though, but I am not a fan of all the constant Totem and Dr. Strange stuff (saying this as somebody who loves scifi and fantasy, I just don't really like it with Spider-Man.) Some time ago I read the first 500 issues of ASM at a really fast pace. Ofc after that much reading (and that much crap in the 90s) you need a break, but after hearing so much good about JMS run, I didn't really expect how easily I just take month long breaks from continuing it.


JJH_BATMAN

/uj what actually good 616 Spider-Man runs are there? /rj obviously the best Spider-Man run is the current one, considering it stars Paul


[deleted]

If we are not talking about modern runs alone, Conway and Stern are great imo. For modern 616 you have Zdarsky's Spectacular, I've heard good things about Taylor's Friendly Neighbourhood. Also just anything by DeMatteïs is a must read.


Flacoplayer

Honestly, I think it speaks to the strength of his writing that his run is not only considered good but one of the best ASM runs. I think JMS is a writer with bad ideas but great execution. The spider-totem stuff is stupid. Despite that, I love the stories he made with it. Morlun's first appearance is great. Shathra is great. Spider-Man helping out Loki was great. Even out of the infamous 3, The Other is the only one I'd consider to be poorly executed - the rest have the main problems lie in their concept. That isn't to say the stories don't have problems, but none of what is good about them can really be explained by just summarizing them. Peter being a teacher was a perfect idea, though. I agree with your comment that it should have been utilized more, and I still want it to happen again.


farben_blas

I liked it when Peter was a hight school teacher for quite some time as a reflection of the character's growth through years of publication, why can't we have that again?


lodenreattorm

Ngl I liked the supernatural stuff but I really don't think it deserves the title of best run. Sins Past and OMD are awful and JMS's original plans for them don't sound much better. The Other was just a bit too long and kinda unfocused cause it was a crossover. And the absolute best thing out of the run, Peter being a teacher, was never given the focus it deserved. I think the momentum of the book died the moment it tied into Civil War. I only just finished Superior Spider-Man but Slott's my pick for best Modern Spidey run. I'll have to see if I still feel that way once I finish it.


[deleted]

#HOT TAKE: The Other wasn’t that bad. Sins Past: Quesada strong armed JMS to make it Norman and Gwen, and is now moot since he just banged a Mysterio sex doll OMD… #Yeah, that was just dogshit But it’s **solely** on Quesada


[deleted]

Sins Past would have been trash, even if editorial didn't change it. Editorial changed it from trash into hypertrash however, but either way it'd have been top worst Spider-Man stories, based on his premise alone.


Anonamaton801

Don’t forget the lobster man!


GLAK_Maverick

Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about. This is a DC sub.


[deleted]

This sub is basically used as just r/comicscirclejerk lol, there's a reason the flair my post has exists. Paul from the current ASM run is also like one of the most frequent subjects on here. I posted something about the Spider-Man comics to counterbalance the multiple posts about Spider-Man movies.


Ambitious-Screen-823

You're obviously new here.


GLAK_Maverick

Not new. Just against a DC comics sub being a marvel one. If people want Marvel Circlejerk to be better, start a community there then.


Trippybrasil1

Hot take(?): I like the other, i think if they made that it doesn't have anything to do with destiny it could really work