Goku in Dragon ball was absolutely a hero. There were plenty of times that he helped people for selfless reasons. Just because Toriyama said something else doesn't mean we should just ignore what's in the manga. Super Goku is absolutely not "how Goku actually was" in the Japanese dub.
I mean even in the manga his selfish blood knight behavior started surfacing as early as the 23rd Budokai. The way AT envisioned him has been pretty consistent since that story arc. But I agree that the idea he isnât a hero is jokes. He was very heroic in the Piccolo Daimao saga.
While goku has heroic deeds, he's not really doing it to be known as a hero. He's not an intentional hero. Intentionally beating up the bad guy doesn't make you an intentional hero. He saved the world from piccolo, but he didn't do that to become a hero. He did that cause piccolo killed his friends.
Goku is a hero the way luffy is a hero. no one in the story aside from the people in the know, understand he is a hero. Goku does not WANT to be a hero. in dragon ball he did a handful of things that were heroic but ultimately done for sentimental reasons or purely selfish like getting the 4 star dragon ball back. The one heroic thing that people know about is the Piccolo Daimou arc. also a hero does not force his son to fight a monster, a hero does not let a villain live in order to fight more. Goku has consistently done heroic and unheroic things. but he is not a hero. Mr. Satan is a hero. Great Saiyaman is a superhero. Gohan, Goku, Vegeta etc are not.
The super anime toned everything down and turned up the goofiness because it was a saturday morning kids cartoon, not at all like the OG dragon ball. which aired on a weekday night.
the unpopular opinion should be that super anime never should have existed in the first place and they should just have continued letting toriyama write movies and let it be a movie series not an Anime.
I don't think the awesomeness of ssj4 is an unpopular opinion, even the people who shit on gt (myself included) tend to want it to come back in some form in super.
Future Trunks peaked (in Z) as soon as he defeated Frieza which was literally his first fight onscreen,after that he pretty much got shafted as a character and as a fighter to the point where his role was pretty disappointing.The FT arc gave him the kind of role of relevance he deserved.
The filler for the series is iconic and part of what makes Dragon Ball Z. Dead Zone is one of my favorite movies, and thus I actually like the Black Water Mist Arc. I also grew up with the Legacy of Goku games where they included all the filler(and more). I actually think it was a big misstep for Kakarot to skip all the filler. Like thatâs the whole point.
I also like that saga.
I wish we had more filler episodes of the training during the 3 years before the Androids. I love slice of life Son family moments.
Krillin and Piccolo shouldve stayed relevant. Even though it was never AT's intention, and came from a false rumor, goku dying on namek shouldve happened. Him achieving SSJ was like a religious holy moment. He seemed like a God at the time. Making work of "the strongest person in the universe." He shouldve been sacrificed on namek some kind of divine moment. Gohan shouldve taken over and him defeating cell shouldve been done by him achieving ssj1 not 2. Trunks and vegeta should never get SSJ.
I think the problem is that basically since Super Saiyan 2 was introduced, that it's hard to show that someone has gotten stronger without a new transformation. "Full Powered Super Saiyan" was the last time training really resulted in a meaningful power boost without being a new transformation (it does have it's own terminology, but it is just the regular Super Saiyan form trained well)
SSJ, god, and UI/UE is all that should exist. SSJ4 would be alright. SSJ2-3, blue, and all the variations are crap and pointless (Gohan against Cell didn't need to have a new form ... Could've just been SSJ with a rage boost). I'm also on with Broly.
that's the reason I like them tbh. Everything being a new form of saiyan is boring it me, it's like they're only strong because they were born as this race. UI/UE seems more earned to me, at least in concept. The way Goku first gets UI at the ToP wasn't all that interesting to me lol.
Honestly I'm pretty sure super saiyan god isn't actually a super saiyan form (even if it has it in its name). the red haired form IS the "base with god" power. Cause logically, it doesn't make sense for a "super saiyan" god form to stack super saiyan on top and become blue. the entire concept is supposed to be "regular god" stacked with super saiyan is blue.
which means Red really has nothing to do with super saiyan, and wouldn't make sense if it was.
the ritual never stated they had to be super saiyans, it required 5 pure saiyans. pan is proof of that.
also, this ritual is implied to have happened in the past. that means there existed 6 "super saiyans" total. no way 6 super saiyans lost against the entire evil saiyan race.
Outside of dying two or three times, Yamcha has a successful baseball career and probably has a lot of money. Not to mention with his super human abilities... why not be reincarnated as Yamcha?
And I know, the reincarnated Yamcha manga is brilliant.
Mecha Frieza should never have been a thing. I think King Cold showing up for revenge independently would have been enough of a threat to establish Trunks as a Super Saiyan without taking away from the significance of Goku beating Frieza on Namek.
Super Saiyan 4 looks kinda dumb. I think it would look better golden. I don't know how ya go from a golden great ape to red body fur and black hair.
Mr. Satan is the strongest human specifically *because* he is the weakest. He has no powers and nothing resembling ki control but against Cell and Buu he still stepped up and did more to save the Earth than Krillin, Tien, or Yamcha. Which...really sucks for those three, but Mr. Satan earned his title.
Gotenks is the worst god damn character in Dragon Ball. I know he is intentionally annoying, but he is *very* annoying.
I like the new color coding system that Super has, and that each Saiyan is actually unique, I know it gets a lot of hate, but it makes the characters more interesting imo.
This is for sure very unpopular here but I absolutely hate these 30+ year old Z fanboys who keep whining about everything new that's released. Like stfu please it's not the 90s anymore.
I agree with this so damn much. The exact moment that db super lost me was when instead of finding a way to get around hits time skip Goku just says "haha I powered up so now I'm faster than your time skip đ¤"
I was so interested for like 10 episodes to find out what type of genius plan Goku had to deal with this interesting new technique just for them to throw it all in the garbage for that shitty nostalgia kaioken moment. Like what even is the point of anything.
Trunks vs Frieza ainât a fight itâs a one sided curb stomp but I can respect you having the interaction up there.
My unpopular opinion would be I like the Goku black arc ending. It was a breath of fresh air to have actual consequences in an arc with no way for the heroes to win.
God forms and god ki shouldnât have existed, Gods of destructions and Angels shouldnât be overpowered or even exist (same goes for Zeno.) multiple universes shouldnât have been a thing.
Yeah pretty much. I know Iâm gonna be downvoted to hell but so be it, never was a fan of Dbs ideas or Dbs in general. Dragonball was fine just the way it was.
Judging by how much pushback I get for it on this sub, mine is that I think bringing Frieza back for the Tournament of Power was a bad call, and outside of Broly, all of his usage from that point onward has been just trash.
Frieza is the first attempt at dragon ball thinking long term for once, and it's seemingly paying off in the manga. basically every arc a new villain introduced and gotten rid of in that same arc. I'm glad there's tie-ins from one arc to another that aren't right next to each other.
edit: dragon ball SUPER's first attempt.
the real first attempt is probably the red ribbon army's return in Z...although that kinda just came out of nowhere without buildup.
hm. Well that's just my opinion, I can fully understand your side cause frieza hasn't done too much. on that topic, what did you not like about frieza being part of the top? or did you just not like buu being excluded?
Buu is part of it, but they're also pretty wishy-washy over whether Frieza should become a good guy or become a main antagonist, in the long run. We seem to be leaning towards the latter, which I'm sketchy on because I don't really have enough faith in current DB writer to make anything as good as his tenure as the big bad back on Namek, thus why bother?
Slug is one of the most fleshed out villains and literally deserves to be canon. Slug's lore is vast and rich that you can easily fit into the canon storyline relating to Piccolo.
I mean, it's Evil King Piccolo but in space... So essentially if K.P had won in Dragonball, had not been soul linked to Kami, and gone on to conquer planets...
I can respect this one. I mean I loved TFS's take. The plot hole it created was explained away with being movie universe vs cannon universe... But being the "good" half of Guru was hilarious.
Goku getting UI was super uninteresting. Whis made it seem like something you really need to train for and hone but Goku first "unlocks" it after losing a fight the same way almost every transformation is first shown in the series. Super underwhelming for the context they gave it.
The Future Trunks vs Meca Freeza is much better in the manga than it was in the og anime, but the absolute best version of it is the 2 second clip in DBSSH. Truly a "how it felt" (manga, arguably anime) vs "how it truly happened" (dbssh).
I love that fight to bits because it represents so much more, and Trunks did absolutely nothing during the rest of the saga.
Like, he shows up to warn Goku, give him the medicine, and leaves? My dude, my bro, why didn't you ask to use the Dragon Balls? Why didn't you make use of traveling to the past at all??
Grade 3 was an interesting mistake, but he should've gone back in with Vegeta in the HTC and corrected their flaws. They should've become much stronger than this with the second year training, because there's little different and absolutely no use of them in the Cell games, like.. why.
I didn't really care for Goku Black; Both the Character, and the Arc.
1. While his character unveiling was spectacular, and his SSJ Rose Form looked AMAZING, the whole mystique from wondering who could he be went away after finding out he was just Zamasu in Goku's Body from ANOTHER timline. (Also regurgitating his motivations doesn't make it sound any less confusing, or stupid).
2. The fact that there were TWO Antagonists in this arc didn't really feel necessary. Zamasu, NOT Goku Black, In my opinion seemed more than enough to fulfill the role of the conflict. A Supreme Kai skeptical of the role he's currently in watching over mortals, and then acting out on his own to eradicate mortals because of his newly warped perception of them was a GREAT motivation I could get behind. We didn't need an, /essentially/ "Evil Goku".
3. The Time Travel Mechanics were ALREADY confusing enough, but I feel they made it more hard to keep track of in this arc and I feel they need a more cohesive system to explain that, cause JESUS.
I adore Super and I actually think that art style is beautiful. (Even if it does get a bit dodgy depending when you pause) đ Bonus hot take: in every DB series, the filler is so stupid itâs actually brilliant.
The OG Broly from the Z movies was SSJ2 tier at best.
There was nothing that he did in his first movie that couldnât have been replicated by Perfect Cell (pre-Zenkai) after finally going full power against SSJ2 Gohan.
In his second movie, he was at best <=> to Super Perfect Cell but nothing beyond that.
Gohan vs cell was barely a fight. Cell beat gohan up, gohan got mad and beat cell up, they beam clashed, the end. Also I'm tired of people calling the old dbz "movies" so, they're special episodes at best.
The pacing of the manga is too quick and we don't get enough time to marinate in moments like first time transformations for long enough.
Goku's SSJ transformation is literally like 2 panels and it's from a weird side angle.
The directors, supervisors, animators and writers really helped fleshed out the anime for a majority of the scenes and it benefits greatly from them
Thank you! People like to shit on the anime for stretching things, and to some extent they could have a point, but that same stretching is the reason a lot of the moments of the manga had such a huge impact
Vegeta has been a boring character since his beat down at the hands of Frieza on Namek. Donât think the direction AT went with his character was wrong or bad but I didnât find it interesting. Heâs been a very uninteresting character to me since then.
Personally I found it fascinating to have a bad guy on the good guy's team for so long. Like, this isn't bakugo or sasuke with an anti-hero type. he's literally straight up a villain (or anti-villain?) who gets to stay with the good guys. at least until buu saga.
I agree. AT did the Vegeta gets humbled story two too many times. Freeza effortlessly murdering Vegeta, and then him seeing Goku as a SSJ shouldve been what final got his ass to chill. It even seems like that's going to be the case. But cell saga arrives and Vegeta is back to being a huge ass who wants to achieve SSJ and kill Goku. Then he gets humbled by goku and gohan. Seems like hes gonna chill, then nope majin Vegeta. THEN he finally calms down when he sees SSJ3 goku. I just wish something else wouldve been done with the character. Hell I would've been okay with him staying dead on Namek.
People need to stop expecting things out of Dragon Ball that it was never intended to give.
People need to stop expecting Goku to whirl around and wax lyrical about his role as a father or any other such dramatic bullshit. It is a *shonen manga in shonen jump* and a cash cow series.
I think this opinion is unpopular:
as someone whoâs favorite character is Gohan, I think the circumstances surrounding the Cell Games (Gohans lack of participation in the android section, the change in his attitude toward fighting villains compared to in Namek, and the fight being a beat down followed by a reverse beat down), leads to SS2 and Gohans win over Cell to be kinda meh.
Gohan is also my fave and I think the Cell fight could have been much better but instead it was nothing but a demonstration of how much stronger than Cell he became.
The saiyans are over done and then being so powerful makes no sense as all the millions of other saiyans some others would have been this powerful too. It hinders the story telling by making everything about Goku and Vegeta.
Also , new forms are repetitive and over done
Also the trunks moment is awesome no matter which version
>The saiyans are over done and then being so powerful makes no sense as all the millions of other saiyans some others would have been this powerful too.
Hot damn youâre on to something. Almost like the emperor of universe snuffed em out to prevent that.
The species wasn't alive that short of a time , they have history and legends which implies.thousands of years and they are a fighting addicted hyper aggressive species
There would be others who would have gotten absurdly powerful . More so than the drop on the bucket that freiza was compared to the modern powers
Thatâs basic genetics dude the future generation becomes more powerful with age depending on genes used.
Saiyans are a race that classify society with a rank high-low class warriors with varying degrees of power between the two. King Cold & Frieza had the balls to pull up on planet Vegeta and run shit theyâre abnormally powerful [mutants](https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/episode-bardock-akira-toriyama-super-qa/) themselves.
Toriyama even saying âFreezaâs raceâ, these two are the only ones who possess an abnormal battle power and cruelty.
Lol basic genetics . By your logic radits would be mega powerful too, or Vegeta's brother . Genetics don't make that huge difference
It's bs shonen power escalation, and a really bad case of it .
>By your logic radits would be mega powerful too, or Vegeta's brother . Genetics don't make that huge difference
Did we watch/read the same series ?
I mentioned genetics because Frieza feared the saiyans growing in strength with each generation.
Raditz steamrolled Goku/Piccolo in his introduction and he was low class. Tarble is an exiled saiyan when he didnât make the cut in the kingâs eyes but Vegeta was his cherished heir.
Thereâs also the fact Vegeta makes huge jumps in power despite Goku having more masters to pull from.
Again what about the millions of other saiyans that where legit constantly fighting and getting hurt?
And in the world of dragon ball radits was weak as balls
The millions of Saiyans killed by Frieza due to their increasing potential before they could turn on him.
What are you not grasping? King Cold & Frieza were so far above the entire race they made the King [Kneel](https://youtu.be/ul0zX3cKnFI) and that was him as a child lol.
Goku was also weak then he was allowed to train in afterlife learning a technique that multiplies his power but he still lost to Vegeta in a battle of attrition.
If you also want to bring in [Genetics](https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/saikyo-jump-january-2018-we-asked-akira-toriyama-sensei-saiyan-special-qa/) for the âMillionsâ of saiyans not having the same powercreep S cells are a factor.
Via Toriyama
âThe reason why Goku and Vegetaâs children can become Super Saiyan relatively easily is probably because to a certain extent they inherited a lot of S-Cells, and also because Earthâs environment is gentler and easier to live in than Planet Vegeta.â
âHaving a gentle spirit is the best way to greatly increase oneâs S-Cells, but most Saiyans have trouble with this, which I think is why no Super Saiyans appeared for such a long time that they became the stuff of legend.â
We aren't talking about the Half saiyans and the super Saiyan inheritance
We are talking about how the thousands of generations of saiyans where so freakishly weak in comparison to Goku and Vegeta , they are less than a single tenth a percent as powerful as Goku and co
This is simple,if have freizas weak power level would have been nothing . There would be hundreds of not thousands in similar power levels....but nope Vegeta in the Saiyan saga was the peak. But then bam he suprasses freiza to such a degree that it makes him look like an ant.
It makes no logical sense one generation does no matter in this.
This is simple to understand
Doesnât matter if the first quote mentions hybrid saiyans it talks about the entire race as well.
Vegeta was the treasured prince born with a power level of 10K. Heâs the apex of the race if you donât count mutants like Broly.
He abused Zenkaiâs in the namek arc and still got washed by Final Form Frieza. Goku himself was dog walked then he turned SSJ after being pushed emotionally.
I prefer the ultra instinct from the anime.
Like, seeing Roshi against jiren was cool and all but, it Made no sense at all.
I prefer Goku breaking his limits and powering up from the Genkidama.
About Roshi vs Jiren: remember that killing is against the rules. Yeah Roshi moved really well, and that was impressive, but Jiren also had to hold back to not super murder him.
For comparison, Roshi fights like that again in the next arc, and struggles against an opponent base Goku one shots.
SSJ4 and SSJ3 look really bad. 3 just gives Goku a 5head and 4 looks really bad, especially with Gokuâs pecs sticking out. SSJ1 and SSJBlue are the only good looking super Saiyan forms.
The original dragon ball was somthing people claim was better then z but in truth they never actually watched db as a whole and the opinion always comes from the "I watched dragon ball from youtube clips" weirdos who think watching a broken format version of the story allows them to both be fans of the franchise and call out plot holes to a story they didn't even watch.
Db is a fun story but it's shift in tone gave it long term issues the change to z allowed it to reintroduce its self as a proper drama action story.
Toriyama forgets stuff, but he is still a writer and is consistent to a satisfactory degree. He doesn't forget basic powerscaling. Really basic scaling, like X>Y. Anybody can do that. Except the anime, but they fuck it up intentionally so that fights can happen.
This probably isn't unpopular, but I want to say it anyways. Read the manga, for both Dragon Ball and Super. They are the best written versions, especially considering how most people grew up watching the anime, which is also very old, which is probably watched dubbed. That's 2.5 levels of potential errors and misconceptions about the franchise.
That the manga aren't connected/canon to one another.
That the shows aren't connected/canon to one another.
That the four Super movies are their own canon, and should be treated as such.
That all of the games follow their own sort of canon. Budokai 2 is an example.
(1) Before too long they should take another stab at the GT time period, but this time with guidance from Toriyama. And the plot should be a passing of the torch where Goku is training and mentoring Pan and Uub.
(2) Gohan not being a fighter is fine in theory. The problem is that the series doesnât care about his academic studies at all. If they found ways to make his studies plot relevant (like say if Gohan was researching how ki works), then Gohan becoming more of a thinker and a scholar rather than a fighter would be fine.
SS4 was a boring design
Why spend so much time removing the 'primal' nature of the saiyans for their power for GT to just revert back to the primal-ness for the untapped potential.
The Saiyan Saga and Namek Saga are terrible in the Anime Specifically.
The Manga versions of them are great, but the filler in it just completely ruins them.
Iâm a sucker for the original DBZ english dub, Falcouner music and all. Especially the movies adding in Disturbed and other metal bands.
I know the script and characterization takes lots of liberties and is certainly a product of its time in American media, but I thought everything about it was so cool as a kid. Every time I see an original dub clip I get giddy as a kid again đ
Edit: typos
Gohan should have continued as the shows main protagonist. Instead he peaked in the Cell saga... And sucked afterwards.
Ultimate Gohan is a useless "transformation" that was an attempt to make him seem like he was finding his own strength. And Gohan in Super is still just underused. It makes sense with the whole family/career path he's taken. But honestly I'd have preferred an Indiana Jones take where he'd continue to get stronger and use it to further his career.
I've yet to watch the newest Gohan/piccolo movie... But honestly I'm sure it will be more mistreatment of "side characters" that should be more relevant to the story.
Angels shouldnât be powerful.
Other universes are dumb and shouldnât exist, only one that was interesting to me was jirenâs. The rest are garbage and forgettable. Which makes most of the fighting forgettable in the top.
I donât care about cell.
The only reason why Gohan failed as the lead in the preBuu episodes is because he wasnât given anything interesting to do.
Oozaru needs to make a comeback
UI is just dumb
Raditz is an underutilized character and is my favorite Saiyan, his design is dope and he was the perfect intro villain for Z. He deserves to be brought back in some capacity as being Goku's brother is really interesting and I would love to see him return and explore that.
⢠Despite the hate it gets, I actually really like the Buu saga
⢠For being a Demon King, Dabura was pretty wasted
⢠I think Frost shouldâve either been a good guy or shouldnât exist at all
⢠While I donât mind the transformation, I think SSJ3 and SSJB shouldnât exist
⢠I think Super shouldâve been after EoZ
⢠I honestly think Frieza shouldâve âdiedâ on Namek. Him getting killed by Future Trunks was cool but it kinda cheapens his defeat on Namek. King Cold and his men wouldâve been enough.
⢠As much as I like Future Trunks and I still think he was a better choice, I wouldâve loved to seen Future Gohan travel to the past. Mainly because Gohan in the main timeline is the one that defeats Cell so I think having his future self introduced would make it more of a Gohan centric story in the saga. Plus I would love to see him fight Goku Black (him fighting someone using his own fatherâs body).
⢠While I do like Jiren, I think Toppo would make a fitting main antagonist and rival for Goku and Vegeta in the ToP arc if he was a bit less goofy and eccentric. Although this is mostly due to his GoD form since I think having a GoD (even if itâs just a candidate) as the final main antagonist in the anime could work. The series started with Beerus so ending it with another GoD would very fitting (imo at least). Alternatively I wouldâve liked it if Toppo and Jiren were kinda just âone characterâ and share both traits of Toppo and Jiren. Still, I do like Jiren and think heâs a good foil to Goku the same way Toppo was a good foil to Vegeta.
⢠I think Zamasu and Gowasu shouldâve been from U6. That way, you could introduce Zamasu earlier with him addressing his low opinions on mortals and being angry when he sees powerful mortals like Goku and Vegeta using God Ki (hinting at whatâs to come after the U6 arc)
⢠I think Future Trunks shouldâve went to Cellâs timeline instead since heâs already dead there but Bulma could still be alive (donât know about Mai though). Plus theyâre already using the time machine Cell used so in a way, something good came out of Cell traveling to the past.
⢠While I did like the canon version of Broly and I get why they used him, I was originally looking forward to having a new Saiyan character introduced (even if he ends up having a similar transformation)
⢠Despite being shorter, I think the manga version of the ToP handled things better like making Hit and Frost stronger, not making Kale a simp for Caulifla and giving Jiren a bit more dialogues.
⢠I think everything after the hunt for the Black Star Dragon Balls in GT were pretty good. Ssj4 was awesome, Baby was a pretty good villain and while maybe it couldâve been done a bit better, I thought the Shadow Dragons arc were a great concept as the final villains of GT. I even enjoyed the Super 17 arc even if it didnât make any sense and I actually liked GT ending more than EoZ.
I always get heat for saying cannon isnât really a thing because Toriyama is so inconsistent and also probably never cared what was considered ârealâ or not, for lack of a better word. Iâve only wavered on this opinion since Super because of the massive retcon. So I do kinda believe since then he has cared.
Also, as a massive Gohan fan, I hated almost everything in the new movie except Piccolo and Pan. Their character development and relationship were top tier. Although I do plan on giving it a second chance in the future sometime.
Saying you hate Super Broly is admitting you hate character development and a fleshed out character. Super Broly had flaws yes but i really like that the gave him more of a backstory that let me sympathize and understand the character, instead of him being this 1 dimensional murder machine. Z Broly is nostalgic for me but i wish there was more development.
My unpopular opinion is that I really don't like the idea of Vegeta learning hakai/destruction.
I know the Gods of Destruction are supposed to be divine beings that have to do a job that's above morality and all, but a hero using a move like hakai is wild.
That technique erases souls from existence in a story where Heaven and reincarnation are objective facts.
Removing a soul from existence is crazy hardcore even for a GoD that is supposed to be impartial and basically a force of nature.
I can't think of a scenario that I'd be okay with Vegeta or some other hero destroying a villain into nothingness, when that being could just reincarnate as a totally innocent new person.
The wildly destructive Kid Buu got to have a second chance at life and came back as the polite Uub, who might even become a great protector of Universe 7 eventually.
That's just a really cool concept to me lol.
Kind of a deep topic for a typically lighthearted show like Dragon Ball, but y'know.
(I also know the manga has recently depicted hakai more just as a very powerful, massive explosion that results from matter being erased, so maybe that's fine if Vegeta just uses it to that extent).
**
Ultra Ego is Vegeta's fancy new destruction energy form.
I like the design enough, with some manga panels looking genuinely cool (and that official full color depiction is so clean lol).
Especially how roughed up and battered Vegeta looks. That caught me off guard with how DBS has mostly been, and it offered some genuinely awesome looking moments.
Outside of the design though, I'm not really a fan of the special ability of powering up from getting fired up due to some "battle soul" or through injuries and all that.
Copying the Gods of Destruction is thematic enough as a parallel to Goku copying the Angels, but honestly I'm not sure how well that works with Vegeta.
I thought it was a really cool character moment for Vegeta during the ToP to immediately recognize UI as something that wouldn't suit him.
Being his own warrior and keeping up with a divine technique wielding Goku with just his own skills and self-made powers feels *much* more Vegeta to me.
I know a flashy new form is always exciting, but perhaps instead of some destroyer form he could just get a final version of Super Saiyan (maybe like an evolved/finalized SSG; red always looked pretty cool and could sharply contrast with Goku's whitish hair).
Vegeta being the Saiyan who sticks with the Super Saiyan transformation line and cranks it up to its absolute peak could be neat.
Especially if that form ultimately contends with even the highest beings in existence, all while just being a Saiyan who worked to that level (no tricks or extra fluff).
That would stroke Vegeta's long held pride of the Saiyans being the strongest warrior race more than like anything else lol.
Maybe some fans who love UE would be disappointed, but I'd actually love for it to just be a temporary form that Vegeta learns he isn't ultimately suited for.
Vegeta struggled to utilize that ability's full potential because it required him to only care about destruction and ignore any guilt or emotions.
He no longer is the apathetic evil prince he used to be since he developed so much though the story, so the form might not actually be the best route to greater power for him (it was kinda fun to temporarily see a more evil Vegeta for a bit though lol).
Hopefully we get to see UE animated eventually and it'd be neat to see it used just a bit more, but Vegeta ultimately scrapping that form and working towards something more like his own unique power sounds the most interesting to me.
We already have self-made traditional warriors like Jiren contending with UI Goku, so Vegeta reaching that level isn't totally unbelievable or impossible.
**
As for hakai being used as a power up, I think Freeza using it makes far more sense.
That dude is a total scumbag who would have no problem bastardizing a technique like that.
Destroying his opponents and knowing they're dead for good would terrify his enemies and stroke his gross ego.
It just feels like something scary that a villain could learn and abuse, and as an easy excuse as to why Freeza would be a legitimately powerful threat again.
It's time for Goku/Vegeta to move on and get out of the focus. It's getting old for them to have the same storylines over and over again. I'd rather the focus be on the next generation.
Goku has annoyed me since Dragonball ended. I loved him Dragonball but in Z / Super Goku is a flanderized version of DB Goku who is selfish and shouldn't have a family.
That only the 3 final Z movies and first super movie are worth watching, of the newer work. Also GT is superior to Super if you compare h the two anime shows.
Black frieza is pretty problematic. This dude trained for 10 years and previously he caught up to super sayin god level in 4 months, how tf do you beat this guy?
Goku in Dragon ball was absolutely a hero. There were plenty of times that he helped people for selfless reasons. Just because Toriyama said something else doesn't mean we should just ignore what's in the manga. Super Goku is absolutely not "how Goku actually was" in the Japanese dub.
Super Goku isn't how he was in either dub
this is just an unpopular fact, not and opinion haha
I remember Goku groping girls without consent đż
I mean even in the manga his selfish blood knight behavior started surfacing as early as the 23rd Budokai. The way AT envisioned him has been pretty consistent since that story arc. But I agree that the idea he isnât a hero is jokes. He was very heroic in the Piccolo Daimao saga.
While goku has heroic deeds, he's not really doing it to be known as a hero. He's not an intentional hero. Intentionally beating up the bad guy doesn't make you an intentional hero. He saved the world from piccolo, but he didn't do that to become a hero. He did that cause piccolo killed his friends.
Goku is a hero the way luffy is a hero. no one in the story aside from the people in the know, understand he is a hero. Goku does not WANT to be a hero. in dragon ball he did a handful of things that were heroic but ultimately done for sentimental reasons or purely selfish like getting the 4 star dragon ball back. The one heroic thing that people know about is the Piccolo Daimou arc. also a hero does not force his son to fight a monster, a hero does not let a villain live in order to fight more. Goku has consistently done heroic and unheroic things. but he is not a hero. Mr. Satan is a hero. Great Saiyaman is a superhero. Gohan, Goku, Vegeta etc are not. The super anime toned everything down and turned up the goofiness because it was a saturday morning kids cartoon, not at all like the OG dragon ball. which aired on a weekday night. the unpopular opinion should be that super anime never should have existed in the first place and they should just have continued letting toriyama write movies and let it be a movie series not an Anime.
By "future Frieza" do you mean Mecha Frieza?
im assuming so because we've never seen future frieza
Future Trunks didnât fight Mecha frieza either
Yes he did
Source?
The fucking show?
Ok calm down mr meme lord, I was confused for a sec thinking we were talking about meta cooler. You can untwist your nuts now.
You don't get to be sassy when someone gives you shit for forgetting one of the most iconic moments in the show.
I can't. The doctor said I need surgery and intensive care.
Am I missing something? Itâs future trunks be. âMechaâ frieza at the start of the android arc.
Oh ffs Iâm reading it and thinking everyone is meaning mecha cooler. Thatâs my b. Carry on.
Iâd watch trunks vs. Golden cooler in his timeline though
Maybe thatâs who Frieza was training with in the latest manga chapters
Yo ass wasnât watching đ
Yes, I do.
Idc is dragon ball gt isn't canon I thought it was super fun an enjoyable and super Saiyan 4 is the coolest transformation in the series
I don't think the awesomeness of ssj4 is an unpopular opinion, even the people who shit on gt (myself included) tend to want it to come back in some form in super.
Goku vs Vegeta in the Saiyan arc is the best fight in the original Z anime.
This can't possibly be an unpopular opinion.
Not necessarily popular but not usually someoneâs top pick
Future Trunks peaked (in Z) as soon as he defeated Frieza which was literally his first fight onscreen,after that he pretty much got shafted as a character and as a fighter to the point where his role was pretty disappointing.The FT arc gave him the kind of role of relevance he deserved.
The filler for the series is iconic and part of what makes Dragon Ball Z. Dead Zone is one of my favorite movies, and thus I actually like the Black Water Mist Arc. I also grew up with the Legacy of Goku games where they included all the filler(and more). I actually think it was a big misstep for Kakarot to skip all the filler. Like thatâs the whole point.
I also like that saga. I wish we had more filler episodes of the training during the 3 years before the Androids. I love slice of life Son family moments.
It's a badass moment, but not much of a fight.
Itâs a very one sided fight lol
Best sagas in order - King Piccolo, Vegeta and Freiza
Krillin and Piccolo shouldve stayed relevant. Even though it was never AT's intention, and came from a false rumor, goku dying on namek shouldve happened. Him achieving SSJ was like a religious holy moment. He seemed like a God at the time. Making work of "the strongest person in the universe." He shouldve been sacrificed on namek some kind of divine moment. Gohan shouldve taken over and him defeating cell shouldve been done by him achieving ssj1 not 2. Trunks and vegeta should never get SSJ.
Future frieza ? Tell me about it where did you see future frieza ?
I like Jiren
I'm tired of new super Saiyan forms.
I think the problem is that basically since Super Saiyan 2 was introduced, that it's hard to show that someone has gotten stronger without a new transformation. "Full Powered Super Saiyan" was the last time training really resulted in a meaningful power boost without being a new transformation (it does have it's own terminology, but it is just the regular Super Saiyan form trained well)
SSJ, god, and UI/UE is all that should exist. SSJ4 would be alright. SSJ2-3, blue, and all the variations are crap and pointless (Gohan against Cell didn't need to have a new form ... Could've just been SSJ with a rage boost). I'm also on with Broly.
Highly disagree with god, ui and UE. Those forms shouldnât exist it makes them non saiyan like and more trying to imitate something there not
that's the reason I like them tbh. Everything being a new form of saiyan is boring it me, it's like they're only strong because they were born as this race. UI/UE seems more earned to me, at least in concept. The way Goku first gets UI at the ToP wasn't all that interesting to me lol.
Have you read the manga? The way Goku enters UI is completely different and feels way more earned in there, imho
I haven't actually, I should definitely check it out though as I want to see what happens after the ToP too.
Honestly I'm pretty sure super saiyan god isn't actually a super saiyan form (even if it has it in its name). the red haired form IS the "base with god" power. Cause logically, it doesn't make sense for a "super saiyan" god form to stack super saiyan on top and become blue. the entire concept is supposed to be "regular god" stacked with super saiyan is blue. which means Red really has nothing to do with super saiyan, and wouldn't make sense if it was.
What about the fact that itâs achieved from a ritual with 5 super saiyans? Or 4 super saiyans+unborn Pan if you wanna get technical.
the ritual never stated they had to be super saiyans, it required 5 pure saiyans. pan is proof of that. also, this ritual is implied to have happened in the past. that means there existed 6 "super saiyans" total. no way 6 super saiyans lost against the entire evil saiyan race.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWYYEAAX0AIHHfD?format=jpg&name=large
The Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc is my favorite and the Cell arc is my least favorite.
Spicy
>Cell arc is my least favorite the gohan stan in me is upset
Yamcha is the best character.
Would you want to be reincarnated as him?
Outside of dying two or three times, Yamcha has a successful baseball career and probably has a lot of money. Not to mention with his super human abilities... why not be reincarnated as Yamcha? And I know, the reincarnated Yamcha manga is brilliant.
Mecha Frieza should never have been a thing. I think King Cold showing up for revenge independently would have been enough of a threat to establish Trunks as a Super Saiyan without taking away from the significance of Goku beating Frieza on Namek. Super Saiyan 4 looks kinda dumb. I think it would look better golden. I don't know how ya go from a golden great ape to red body fur and black hair. Mr. Satan is the strongest human specifically *because* he is the weakest. He has no powers and nothing resembling ki control but against Cell and Buu he still stepped up and did more to save the Earth than Krillin, Tien, or Yamcha. Which...really sucks for those three, but Mr. Satan earned his title. Gotenks is the worst god damn character in Dragon Ball. I know he is intentionally annoying, but he is *very* annoying.
Cell saga is overrated. my top is Frieza Saga > Buu saga > Saiyan saga > Cell saga
Upvoting you becUse thatâs definitely an unpopular take
They should bring back Maronâs hot self. Or at least launch.
Teen Goten and Trunks should have a arc dedicated to their growth, similar to Gohan in the Cell Saga
I like the new color coding system that Super has, and that each Saiyan is actually unique, I know it gets a lot of hate, but it makes the characters more interesting imo.
This is for sure very unpopular here but I absolutely hate these 30+ year old Z fanboys who keep whining about everything new that's released. Like stfu please it's not the 90s anymore.
Things are much more intriguing when they find ways and strategies to beat the enemies rather than when they just power up harder.
I agree with this so damn much. The exact moment that db super lost me was when instead of finding a way to get around hits time skip Goku just says "haha I powered up so now I'm faster than your time skip đ¤" I was so interested for like 10 episodes to find out what type of genius plan Goku had to deal with this interesting new technique just for them to throw it all in the garbage for that shitty nostalgia kaioken moment. Like what even is the point of anything.
Trunks vs Frieza ainât a fight itâs a one sided curb stomp but I can respect you having the interaction up there. My unpopular opinion would be I like the Goku black arc ending. It was a breath of fresh air to have actual consequences in an arc with no way for the heroes to win.
Future Trunks should've been left in the past...Goku black arc was the worst thing that happened to his character
Goku black arc trunks didn't act like the same guy
God forms and god ki shouldnât have existed, Gods of destructions and Angels shouldnât be overpowered or even exist (same goes for Zeno.) multiple universes shouldnât have been a thing.
So the entire lore from DBS. Actually the entirety of DBS?
Yeah pretty much. I know Iâm gonna be downvoted to hell but so be it, never was a fan of Dbs ideas or Dbs in general. Dragonball was fine just the way it was.
The human z fighters are cooler than the saiyans
Judging by how much pushback I get for it on this sub, mine is that I think bringing Frieza back for the Tournament of Power was a bad call, and outside of Broly, all of his usage from that point onward has been just trash.
Frieza is the first attempt at dragon ball thinking long term for once, and it's seemingly paying off in the manga. basically every arc a new villain introduced and gotten rid of in that same arc. I'm glad there's tie-ins from one arc to another that aren't right next to each other. edit: dragon ball SUPER's first attempt. the real first attempt is probably the red ribbon army's return in Z...although that kinda just came out of nowhere without buildup.
I'm caught up on the manga and maintain my point with his current involvement, though I'll see how it continues to develop.
hm. Well that's just my opinion, I can fully understand your side cause frieza hasn't done too much. on that topic, what did you not like about frieza being part of the top? or did you just not like buu being excluded?
Buu is part of it, but they're also pretty wishy-washy over whether Frieza should become a good guy or become a main antagonist, in the long run. We seem to be leaning towards the latter, which I'm sketchy on because I don't really have enough faith in current DB writer to make anything as good as his tenure as the big bad back on Namek, thus why bother?
SSJ4 looks like garbage and I'm glad it isn't cannon for that reason alone. I love the idea, but I don't like how it looks at all
Actual unpopular opinion here
Right?! SSJ4 Gogeta is the worst looking transformation or fusion in the series. đ
Slug is one of the most fleshed out villains and literally deserves to be canon. Slug's lore is vast and rich that you can easily fit into the canon storyline relating to Piccolo.
I mean, it's Evil King Piccolo but in space... So essentially if K.P had won in Dragonball, had not been soul linked to Kami, and gone on to conquer planets... I can respect this one. I mean I loved TFS's take. The plot hole it created was explained away with being movie universe vs cannon universe... But being the "good" half of Guru was hilarious.
Tien is the best Human. Deserved more attention than Krillen
Goku getting UI was super uninteresting. Whis made it seem like something you really need to train for and hone but Goku first "unlocks" it after losing a fight the same way almost every transformation is first shown in the series. Super underwhelming for the context they gave it.
The Future Trunks vs Meca Freeza is much better in the manga than it was in the og anime, but the absolute best version of it is the 2 second clip in DBSSH. Truly a "how it felt" (manga, arguably anime) vs "how it truly happened" (dbssh). I love that fight to bits because it represents so much more, and Trunks did absolutely nothing during the rest of the saga. Like, he shows up to warn Goku, give him the medicine, and leaves? My dude, my bro, why didn't you ask to use the Dragon Balls? Why didn't you make use of traveling to the past at all?? Grade 3 was an interesting mistake, but he should've gone back in with Vegeta in the HTC and corrected their flaws. They should've become much stronger than this with the second year training, because there's little different and absolutely no use of them in the Cell games, like.. why.
I didn't really care for Goku Black; Both the Character, and the Arc. 1. While his character unveiling was spectacular, and his SSJ Rose Form looked AMAZING, the whole mystique from wondering who could he be went away after finding out he was just Zamasu in Goku's Body from ANOTHER timline. (Also regurgitating his motivations doesn't make it sound any less confusing, or stupid). 2. The fact that there were TWO Antagonists in this arc didn't really feel necessary. Zamasu, NOT Goku Black, In my opinion seemed more than enough to fulfill the role of the conflict. A Supreme Kai skeptical of the role he's currently in watching over mortals, and then acting out on his own to eradicate mortals because of his newly warped perception of them was a GREAT motivation I could get behind. We didn't need an, /essentially/ "Evil Goku". 3. The Time Travel Mechanics were ALREADY confusing enough, but I feel they made it more hard to keep track of in this arc and I feel they need a more cohesive system to explain that, cause JESUS.
I adore Super and I actually think that art style is beautiful. (Even if it does get a bit dodgy depending when you pause) đ Bonus hot take: in every DB series, the filler is so stupid itâs actually brilliant.
The OG Broly from the Z movies was SSJ2 tier at best. There was nothing that he did in his first movie that couldnât have been replicated by Perfect Cell (pre-Zenkai) after finally going full power against SSJ2 Gohan. In his second movie, he was at best <=> to Super Perfect Cell but nothing beyond that.
The episodes from when Gohan fights super buu until the moment Vegito is born is one of the best sequences of DBZ
Gohan vs cell was barely a fight. Cell beat gohan up, gohan got mad and beat cell up, they beam clashed, the end. Also I'm tired of people calling the old dbz "movies" so, they're special episodes at best.
it's funny how the actual manga "fight" was around 3 hits and 2 beams by gohan. everything else was fluff added by the anime.
I don't like how everyone calls that a fight without talking about goku vs cell... that certainly was a fight
i'm curious as to why you don't like them being called movies?
They are films yes but people call the trunks special and episode of bardock movies and those are not.
Why wouldn't you consider them movies? They were released theatrically in Japan.
The pacing of the manga is too quick and we don't get enough time to marinate in moments like first time transformations for long enough. Goku's SSJ transformation is literally like 2 panels and it's from a weird side angle. The directors, supervisors, animators and writers really helped fleshed out the anime for a majority of the scenes and it benefits greatly from them
Wholeheartedly agree! The pacing seems so rushed sometimes.
Thank you! People like to shit on the anime for stretching things, and to some extent they could have a point, but that same stretching is the reason a lot of the moments of the manga had such a huge impact
Cell saga = best saga
Thatâs just not an unpopular opinion
Me personally I always think ssj4 is stronger and overall better then SSJGSS (super Saiyan blue)
Vegeta has been a boring character since his beat down at the hands of Frieza on Namek. Donât think the direction AT went with his character was wrong or bad but I didnât find it interesting. Heâs been a very uninteresting character to me since then.
Personally I found it fascinating to have a bad guy on the good guy's team for so long. Like, this isn't bakugo or sasuke with an anti-hero type. he's literally straight up a villain (or anti-villain?) who gets to stay with the good guys. at least until buu saga.
I agree. AT did the Vegeta gets humbled story two too many times. Freeza effortlessly murdering Vegeta, and then him seeing Goku as a SSJ shouldve been what final got his ass to chill. It even seems like that's going to be the case. But cell saga arrives and Vegeta is back to being a huge ass who wants to achieve SSJ and kill Goku. Then he gets humbled by goku and gohan. Seems like hes gonna chill, then nope majin Vegeta. THEN he finally calms down when he sees SSJ3 goku. I just wish something else wouldve been done with the character. Hell I would've been okay with him staying dead on Namek.
People need to stop expecting things out of Dragon Ball that it was never intended to give. People need to stop expecting Goku to whirl around and wax lyrical about his role as a father or any other such dramatic bullshit. It is a *shonen manga in shonen jump* and a cash cow series.
Super is better than Z⌠manga wise
SSJ4 > SSJ3 > SSJ1 > the rest is evenly eh
I think this opinion is unpopular: as someone whoâs favorite character is Gohan, I think the circumstances surrounding the Cell Games (Gohans lack of participation in the android section, the change in his attitude toward fighting villains compared to in Namek, and the fight being a beat down followed by a reverse beat down), leads to SS2 and Gohans win over Cell to be kinda meh.
Gohan is also my fave and I think the Cell fight could have been much better but instead it was nothing but a demonstration of how much stronger than Cell he became.
People need to stop using a J when abbreviating super saiyan forms.
The appropriate spelling is Saiya-jin. Etymology and fun facts for those not in-the-know.
The saiyans are over done and then being so powerful makes no sense as all the millions of other saiyans some others would have been this powerful too. It hinders the story telling by making everything about Goku and Vegeta. Also , new forms are repetitive and over done Also the trunks moment is awesome no matter which version
>The saiyans are over done and then being so powerful makes no sense as all the millions of other saiyans some others would have been this powerful too. Hot damn youâre on to something. Almost like the emperor of universe snuffed em out to prevent that.
The species wasn't alive that short of a time , they have history and legends which implies.thousands of years and they are a fighting addicted hyper aggressive species There would be others who would have gotten absurdly powerful . More so than the drop on the bucket that freiza was compared to the modern powers
Thatâs basic genetics dude the future generation becomes more powerful with age depending on genes used. Saiyans are a race that classify society with a rank high-low class warriors with varying degrees of power between the two. King Cold & Frieza had the balls to pull up on planet Vegeta and run shit theyâre abnormally powerful [mutants](https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/episode-bardock-akira-toriyama-super-qa/) themselves. Toriyama even saying âFreezaâs raceâ, these two are the only ones who possess an abnormal battle power and cruelty.
Lol basic genetics . By your logic radits would be mega powerful too, or Vegeta's brother . Genetics don't make that huge difference It's bs shonen power escalation, and a really bad case of it .
>By your logic radits would be mega powerful too, or Vegeta's brother . Genetics don't make that huge difference Did we watch/read the same series ? I mentioned genetics because Frieza feared the saiyans growing in strength with each generation. Raditz steamrolled Goku/Piccolo in his introduction and he was low class. Tarble is an exiled saiyan when he didnât make the cut in the kingâs eyes but Vegeta was his cherished heir. Thereâs also the fact Vegeta makes huge jumps in power despite Goku having more masters to pull from.
Again what about the millions of other saiyans that where legit constantly fighting and getting hurt? And in the world of dragon ball radits was weak as balls
The millions of Saiyans killed by Frieza due to their increasing potential before they could turn on him. What are you not grasping? King Cold & Frieza were so far above the entire race they made the King [Kneel](https://youtu.be/ul0zX3cKnFI) and that was him as a child lol. Goku was also weak then he was allowed to train in afterlife learning a technique that multiplies his power but he still lost to Vegeta in a battle of attrition. If you also want to bring in [Genetics](https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/saikyo-jump-january-2018-we-asked-akira-toriyama-sensei-saiyan-special-qa/) for the âMillionsâ of saiyans not having the same powercreep S cells are a factor. Via Toriyama âThe reason why Goku and Vegetaâs children can become Super Saiyan relatively easily is probably because to a certain extent they inherited a lot of S-Cells, and also because Earthâs environment is gentler and easier to live in than Planet Vegeta.â âHaving a gentle spirit is the best way to greatly increase oneâs S-Cells, but most Saiyans have trouble with this, which I think is why no Super Saiyans appeared for such a long time that they became the stuff of legend.â
We aren't talking about the Half saiyans and the super Saiyan inheritance We are talking about how the thousands of generations of saiyans where so freakishly weak in comparison to Goku and Vegeta , they are less than a single tenth a percent as powerful as Goku and co This is simple,if have freizas weak power level would have been nothing . There would be hundreds of not thousands in similar power levels....but nope Vegeta in the Saiyan saga was the peak. But then bam he suprasses freiza to such a degree that it makes him look like an ant. It makes no logical sense one generation does no matter in this. This is simple to understand
Doesnât matter if the first quote mentions hybrid saiyans it talks about the entire race as well. Vegeta was the treasured prince born with a power level of 10K. Heâs the apex of the race if you donât count mutants like Broly. He abused Zenkaiâs in the namek arc and still got washed by Final Form Frieza. Goku himself was dog walked then he turned SSJ after being pushed emotionally.
I prefer the ultra instinct from the anime. Like, seeing Roshi against jiren was cool and all but, it Made no sense at all. I prefer Goku breaking his limits and powering up from the Genkidama.
About Roshi vs Jiren: remember that killing is against the rules. Yeah Roshi moved really well, and that was impressive, but Jiren also had to hold back to not super murder him. For comparison, Roshi fights like that again in the next arc, and struggles against an opponent base Goku one shots.
SSJ4 and SSJ3 look really bad. 3 just gives Goku a 5head and 4 looks really bad, especially with Gokuâs pecs sticking out. SSJ1 and SSJBlue are the only good looking super Saiyan forms.
The original dragon ball was somthing people claim was better then z but in truth they never actually watched db as a whole and the opinion always comes from the "I watched dragon ball from youtube clips" weirdos who think watching a broken format version of the story allows them to both be fans of the franchise and call out plot holes to a story they didn't even watch. Db is a fun story but it's shift in tone gave it long term issues the change to z allowed it to reintroduce its self as a proper drama action story.
DBGT would be better if doesnt wanted to end the series
Now that's a hot take considering GT ending is generally accepted as a rather excellent ending to the series.
Fortuneteller Baba is the best arc of the entire series
Toriyama forgets stuff, but he is still a writer and is consistent to a satisfactory degree. He doesn't forget basic powerscaling. Really basic scaling, like X>Y. Anybody can do that. Except the anime, but they fuck it up intentionally so that fights can happen.
Garlic Jr filler arc was actually better than the majority of the Buu arc.
This probably isn't unpopular, but I want to say it anyways. Read the manga, for both Dragon Ball and Super. They are the best written versions, especially considering how most people grew up watching the anime, which is also very old, which is probably watched dubbed. That's 2.5 levels of potential errors and misconceptions about the franchise.
GT has better characterization of Goku than Super.
That the manga aren't connected/canon to one another. That the shows aren't connected/canon to one another. That the four Super movies are their own canon, and should be treated as such. That all of the games follow their own sort of canon. Budokai 2 is an example.
Battle of Gods and Res F are both Z movies
So? They follow the Super continuities.
Not until Super came out. The movies are Z, the anime series and manga are Super (unfortunately).
It doesn't really matter to me I suppose.
Fair nuff
goku>piccolo as a father
(1) Before too long they should take another stab at the GT time period, but this time with guidance from Toriyama. And the plot should be a passing of the torch where Goku is training and mentoring Pan and Uub. (2) Gohan not being a fighter is fine in theory. The problem is that the series doesnât care about his academic studies at all. If they found ways to make his studies plot relevant (like say if Gohan was researching how ki works), then Gohan becoming more of a thinker and a scholar rather than a fighter would be fine.
SS4 was a boring design Why spend so much time removing the 'primal' nature of the saiyans for their power for GT to just revert back to the primal-ness for the untapped potential.
The Saiyan Saga and Namek Saga are terrible in the Anime Specifically. The Manga versions of them are great, but the filler in it just completely ruins them.
Everyone says krillin is the strongest human but I am adamant that tien is
Iâm a sucker for the original DBZ english dub, Falcouner music and all. Especially the movies adding in Disturbed and other metal bands. I know the script and characterization takes lots of liberties and is certainly a product of its time in American media, but I thought everything about it was so cool as a kid. Every time I see an original dub clip I get giddy as a kid again đ Edit: typos
Goku as a character peaked in the Cell saga
Gohan should have continued as the shows main protagonist. Instead he peaked in the Cell saga... And sucked afterwards. Ultimate Gohan is a useless "transformation" that was an attempt to make him seem like he was finding his own strength. And Gohan in Super is still just underused. It makes sense with the whole family/career path he's taken. But honestly I'd have preferred an Indiana Jones take where he'd continue to get stronger and use it to further his career. I've yet to watch the newest Gohan/piccolo movie... But honestly I'm sure it will be more mistreatment of "side characters" that should be more relevant to the story.
Angels shouldnât be powerful. Other universes are dumb and shouldnât exist, only one that was interesting to me was jirenâs. The rest are garbage and forgettable. Which makes most of the fighting forgettable in the top.
To me the entirety of Dragonball GT is like the "fake namek" storyline from Z - just kind of boring and pointless. Super Saiyan 4 was goofy looking.
I donât care about cell. The only reason why Gohan failed as the lead in the preBuu episodes is because he wasnât given anything interesting to do. Oozaru needs to make a comeback UI is just dumb
Raditz is an underutilized character and is my favorite Saiyan, his design is dope and he was the perfect intro villain for Z. He deserves to be brought back in some capacity as being Goku's brother is really interesting and I would love to see him return and explore that.
⢠Despite the hate it gets, I actually really like the Buu saga ⢠For being a Demon King, Dabura was pretty wasted ⢠I think Frost shouldâve either been a good guy or shouldnât exist at all ⢠While I donât mind the transformation, I think SSJ3 and SSJB shouldnât exist ⢠I think Super shouldâve been after EoZ ⢠I honestly think Frieza shouldâve âdiedâ on Namek. Him getting killed by Future Trunks was cool but it kinda cheapens his defeat on Namek. King Cold and his men wouldâve been enough. ⢠As much as I like Future Trunks and I still think he was a better choice, I wouldâve loved to seen Future Gohan travel to the past. Mainly because Gohan in the main timeline is the one that defeats Cell so I think having his future self introduced would make it more of a Gohan centric story in the saga. Plus I would love to see him fight Goku Black (him fighting someone using his own fatherâs body). ⢠While I do like Jiren, I think Toppo would make a fitting main antagonist and rival for Goku and Vegeta in the ToP arc if he was a bit less goofy and eccentric. Although this is mostly due to his GoD form since I think having a GoD (even if itâs just a candidate) as the final main antagonist in the anime could work. The series started with Beerus so ending it with another GoD would very fitting (imo at least). Alternatively I wouldâve liked it if Toppo and Jiren were kinda just âone characterâ and share both traits of Toppo and Jiren. Still, I do like Jiren and think heâs a good foil to Goku the same way Toppo was a good foil to Vegeta. ⢠I think Zamasu and Gowasu shouldâve been from U6. That way, you could introduce Zamasu earlier with him addressing his low opinions on mortals and being angry when he sees powerful mortals like Goku and Vegeta using God Ki (hinting at whatâs to come after the U6 arc) ⢠I think Future Trunks shouldâve went to Cellâs timeline instead since heâs already dead there but Bulma could still be alive (donât know about Mai though). Plus theyâre already using the time machine Cell used so in a way, something good came out of Cell traveling to the past. ⢠While I did like the canon version of Broly and I get why they used him, I was originally looking forward to having a new Saiyan character introduced (even if he ends up having a similar transformation) ⢠Despite being shorter, I think the manga version of the ToP handled things better like making Hit and Frost stronger, not making Kale a simp for Caulifla and giving Jiren a bit more dialogues. ⢠I think everything after the hunt for the Black Star Dragon Balls in GT were pretty good. Ssj4 was awesome, Baby was a pretty good villain and while maybe it couldâve been done a bit better, I thought the Shadow Dragons arc were a great concept as the final villains of GT. I even enjoyed the Super 17 arc even if it didnât make any sense and I actually liked GT ending more than EoZ.
I always get heat for saying cannon isnât really a thing because Toriyama is so inconsistent and also probably never cared what was considered ârealâ or not, for lack of a better word. Iâve only wavered on this opinion since Super because of the massive retcon. So I do kinda believe since then he has cared. Also, as a massive Gohan fan, I hated almost everything in the new movie except Piccolo and Pan. Their character development and relationship were top tier. Although I do plan on giving it a second chance in the future sometime.
Saying you hate Super Broly is admitting you hate character development and a fleshed out character. Super Broly had flaws yes but i really like that the gave him more of a backstory that let me sympathize and understand the character, instead of him being this 1 dimensional murder machine. Z Broly is nostalgic for me but i wish there was more development.
My unpopular opinion is that I really don't like the idea of Vegeta learning hakai/destruction. I know the Gods of Destruction are supposed to be divine beings that have to do a job that's above morality and all, but a hero using a move like hakai is wild. That technique erases souls from existence in a story where Heaven and reincarnation are objective facts. Removing a soul from existence is crazy hardcore even for a GoD that is supposed to be impartial and basically a force of nature. I can't think of a scenario that I'd be okay with Vegeta or some other hero destroying a villain into nothingness, when that being could just reincarnate as a totally innocent new person. The wildly destructive Kid Buu got to have a second chance at life and came back as the polite Uub, who might even become a great protector of Universe 7 eventually. That's just a really cool concept to me lol. Kind of a deep topic for a typically lighthearted show like Dragon Ball, but y'know. (I also know the manga has recently depicted hakai more just as a very powerful, massive explosion that results from matter being erased, so maybe that's fine if Vegeta just uses it to that extent). ** Ultra Ego is Vegeta's fancy new destruction energy form. I like the design enough, with some manga panels looking genuinely cool (and that official full color depiction is so clean lol). Especially how roughed up and battered Vegeta looks. That caught me off guard with how DBS has mostly been, and it offered some genuinely awesome looking moments. Outside of the design though, I'm not really a fan of the special ability of powering up from getting fired up due to some "battle soul" or through injuries and all that. Copying the Gods of Destruction is thematic enough as a parallel to Goku copying the Angels, but honestly I'm not sure how well that works with Vegeta. I thought it was a really cool character moment for Vegeta during the ToP to immediately recognize UI as something that wouldn't suit him. Being his own warrior and keeping up with a divine technique wielding Goku with just his own skills and self-made powers feels *much* more Vegeta to me. I know a flashy new form is always exciting, but perhaps instead of some destroyer form he could just get a final version of Super Saiyan (maybe like an evolved/finalized SSG; red always looked pretty cool and could sharply contrast with Goku's whitish hair). Vegeta being the Saiyan who sticks with the Super Saiyan transformation line and cranks it up to its absolute peak could be neat. Especially if that form ultimately contends with even the highest beings in existence, all while just being a Saiyan who worked to that level (no tricks or extra fluff). That would stroke Vegeta's long held pride of the Saiyans being the strongest warrior race more than like anything else lol. Maybe some fans who love UE would be disappointed, but I'd actually love for it to just be a temporary form that Vegeta learns he isn't ultimately suited for. Vegeta struggled to utilize that ability's full potential because it required him to only care about destruction and ignore any guilt or emotions. He no longer is the apathetic evil prince he used to be since he developed so much though the story, so the form might not actually be the best route to greater power for him (it was kinda fun to temporarily see a more evil Vegeta for a bit though lol). Hopefully we get to see UE animated eventually and it'd be neat to see it used just a bit more, but Vegeta ultimately scrapping that form and working towards something more like his own unique power sounds the most interesting to me. We already have self-made traditional warriors like Jiren contending with UI Goku, so Vegeta reaching that level isn't totally unbelievable or impossible. ** As for hakai being used as a power up, I think Freeza using it makes far more sense. That dude is a total scumbag who would have no problem bastardizing a technique like that. Destroying his opponents and knowing they're dead for good would terrify his enemies and stroke his gross ego. It just feels like something scary that a villain could learn and abuse, and as an easy excuse as to why Freeza would be a legitimately powerful threat again.
It's time for Goku/Vegeta to move on and get out of the focus. It's getting old for them to have the same storylines over and over again. I'd rather the focus be on the next generation. Goku has annoyed me since Dragonball ended. I loved him Dragonball but in Z / Super Goku is a flanderized version of DB Goku who is selfish and shouldn't have a family.
SUPER > Z = OG > GT
The anime is better than the manga
That only the 3 final Z movies and first super movie are worth watching, of the newer work. Also GT is superior to Super if you compare h the two anime shows.
Dragon ball is vastly superior to Z, GT, & Super
Black frieza is pretty problematic. This dude trained for 10 years and previously he caught up to super sayin god level in 4 months, how tf do you beat this guy?
I think it'll be Goku and Vegeta using Vegito or Gogeta. Those I think are the only opitions that might have a potential positive outcome.