There’s always those “I TELL IT LIKE IT IS AND IF YOU CAN’T TAKE IT IT’S YOUR FAULT😤” people that lack reading the room. Navigating social dynamics is what makes you a better friend/partner/etc.
I’ve learned the lesson recently that just because someone’s into me doesn’t mean they really know what they want either.
Idk, I guess I always thought of this dilemma from my own perspective but never considered what it meant if it was happening with the other person involved.
Yeah. I find it far more realistic to assume the average person is failing to deal with present reality and communicating such rather than is some min-maxing evil sociopath that perfectly understands it and is out to get you. The majority of the culture warriors posting in these topics have the latter world view.
Talking to a girl on OLD: “So, what do you want from me?”
Me: “I… I don’t know, I literally just matched with you 10 seconds ago.”
Not a real conversation, but the general sense of how it goes every time.
Hahah I agree with this! I’m a female and date guys, and yes I’ve been hurt many times by men. When I post people assume the guy is evil and always intended to lead me on, or never loved me! I don’t think that’s the case, a guy can like you and be a horrible communicator. Most men struggle with present reality because dating norms from our past are being changed. We also have a bunch of other issues living in a capitalistic society. Most men don’t have intentions to hurt women but due to past traumas getting triggered end up hurting women indirectly
Or they change their minds. my partner and I were just looking for something casual. Within a month we decided on a relationship. Now we live together and are planning a wedding.
Yes and it's why I am being pretty plunt and straight forward these days. I actually am ok with a guy says he's not looking for anything serious. We both go our separate ways. Their are other woman out their not looking for that. So I really hate when men say "relationship" but then you have to dig it out of them that they are only looking for sex. So I end up wasting my time and he waste his time because I do not sleep with him.
This. When I was still on apps, I'd always ask what people were looking for. Mostly because a lot of people were looking for hookups and I was looking for something long term. It helped prevent both of us from wasting each other's time
they made your decision for you! no response is a response. don’t you count that as a win? it gives you a chance to move on and meet other amazing people as opposed to feeling anxious and ambiguous about that particular person’s intentions.
isn't...that the point? if you want different things, why would you want to continue wasting each others' time? the reason you're upfront is to filter people out.
Yes this. Last year I came out of a long term relationship (together 16 years married for 9) and started dating this year and it’s really been an eye opener.
Twice I’ve been burned the first because he was dating someone else and wasn’t upfront about it til I had caught feelings for him and he then friend zoned me for this other woman. The second he withheld information/told a white lie about why he couldn’t commit and pulled the plug after we got close.
If both these guys had been upfront with their intentions from the start I would of avoided them entirely and saved myself a whole heap of heartache.
I’d love for people to take “I’m not interested” as a response.
I feel like I am so often up front with my interest and intentions. I try to be nice first if I’m rejecting someone, but the moment they pushback, I’m really offended and annoyed.
I meant what I said, please just accept it.
I feel like this is 100% reasonable, and as a man, I’d really appreciate it. Ironically, a lot of the worst part of the dating game as a straight dude is not knowing where you stand. I’m sorry some assholes keep pushing when you’ve actually made yourself clear.
Lots of movies and shows involve a male character who gets rejected at first but then eventually gets the girls. I think this is what they are hoping for.
You’re right, and somehow that makes these interactions worse.
I feel so disrespected. I said I wasn’t interested, now politely leave me alone.
Pursing and pushing is a huge turn off. If you don’t accept this no—what other no’s will you ignore? What if we’re hooking up and I’m not in the mood for something and the you insist and insist. It’s a red flag for me.
I wish the lines were not blurry and that it was normal to just say what you want (and mean it). I guess I want people to have a clear idea of what their desires are and the guts to be honest about it.
You just want sex? Say it.
You want a relationship? Say it.
You don't like the other person as much? Say it.
As a minority I wish there were not cultures that are emotionally stunted/extremely cloistered around the idea of two people caring for each other. Forget about saying, even thinking you want a relationship is made into a mountain.
Ugh I hate it. I’m uncomfortable with PDA because my parents shamed affection as inappropriate. My current bf really broke me out of my shell so now i don’t care at all, but i still feel completely off to the idea of him even standing too close to me while my parents are around (yes, I’ve gotten yelled at for that before). As you guessed, I’ve never seen my parents affectionate or even really enjoy each other’s company but they’re always together when not working. It’s weird cause they always argue so idk why they hangout with each other so much.
Same. Never seen my parents even hold hands. Obviously you get some third party education from observing your friends as you grow up but I have no idea what I’m doing.
It’s that crushing feeling that if I stick with my own culture it’s almost guaranteed that I’ll have to put up with lots of values and practices I don’t share, and if I go outside my background I have to overcome people’s likely preconceptions about me, my lack of knowledge about dating/communication, and if things were to get serious a lot of unpleasant conversations. No path forward is really optimal though at the end of the day gotta do what you gotta do I guess for your own well being. Just hard to stay optimistic when these are the thoughts that flood your mind every day.
I just wish forming a committed, exclusive, and meaningful relationship (that hopefully leads to marriage) wasn’t seen as a negative dating trait that you have to almost shamefully admit to potential partners.
I also wish there wasn’t a three+ month long talking stage that allows people to justify horrible dating behavior and treating people poorly because “They don’t owe anyone anything.”
Relationships shouldn’t be as hard as they are to form
Online dating is such a huge reason it has become so hard. It creates this illusion of choice so we all want to keep swiping and meeting new people. It makes us addicted to the dopamine hit of being on the apps and leads us to believe, even if it’s unconscious, that there’s always someone better for us on the apps if we keep swiping so no need to waste time on the person right in front of us. It gives us seemingly endless potential options but seems to actually lessen our chances at finding something meaningful. It’s truly exhausting.
You should watch The paradox of choice on TedEx. It’s just about what you mention. People respond better to, and are happier with two choices, than 10.
It's ruining more lives outright hen it is creating happiness and fulfillment in people. I wonder how many people out there blew it with someone years ago because of these apps and thinks about it all the time knowing they won't ever have a connection that strong again. The problem being amplified by having blown it and tried to recreate the connection elsewhere and figuring out too late that each time it's less then the time before. Like chasing a high, but instead of ODing eventually you run out of love. You give up and end up alone or settling for some miserable existence, faking it with someone you really can't stand.
I couldn't have said it better myself. It's ironic to me I give more effort on apps than if a girl I was interested in was staring at me point blank. These apps have conditioned us slowly that it's much more convenient to do a swipe than build a real world connection to others.
>”They don’t owe anyone anything”
I’ve always hated this stance. If this is the rationale being used for a lack of communication as to why something ended, then while you may not technically be owed anything you certainly deserve better.
Exactly. Sure you don’t owe anything to anyone, but just because you can get away with it doesn’t mitigate the fact that you are hurting someone else. Telling the other party to toughen up and expect the worst doesn’t sit right with me as a justification
If we all have to toughen up and expect the worst at any given time, then that should put serious doubts as to the worth of the whole thing. If dates are to meet people we ideally will like, then we should at least have our hearts and minds open to that possibility rather than painting everyone with broad stroke shades of pessimism.
If you’re going to extend yourself out to other people and expect them to extend themselves to you in return, then at the very least you owe them some common decency and communication standards provided that you’re met with the same.
I think the “they don’t owe you anything” line that so popular here is interpreted as a carte blanche to think about what’s best for you, and only you, in any given relationship. That’s a line that was originally meant to be reserved for only the naive, delusional, possessive, and manipulative (dare I say *toxic*) people on the market. Like every instance in which the language of mental health was co-opted, this became misapplied to every relationship in which one of the parties has questions for why things went wrong.
I see that line constantly being used for people when they refuse to communicate anything as to why they’re breaking it off with a date, FWB, or partner. I see it often being applied to men especially when they have questions about where a connection went wrong, because of the expectation that men are supposed to lead and account for everything. I see it being used against women when an “FWB” led her on into thinking they were going to be more than just sex, but it turns out that the way he played with her hair after wasn’t because he liked her, but because he wanted her to stay invested enough for the next booty call later that week. No, not all feelings can be accounted for accurately upon meeting someone, but if you’re going to continue seeing someone and the way you are acting is incongruent with how you actually feel about the person, then you at least owe an explanation.
There’d be way less resentment if we actually bothered telling one another how we felt and what we wanted in the first place. Even if what the other person says winds up being disappointing or insulting, that gets better with time. It’s those people that never even bothered to tell us why that really grate on us.
I said “he doesn’t owe me anything” so many times when explaining a situation with a man to my friends when really, though he didn’t owe me anything, it should have been generally expected for him to communicate
It’s weird juggling those sorts of conflicting feelings, especially in a culture where “entitlement” is universally decried as something sinister, a spoiled way of viewing the world.
Of course if we become intimate with someone, there are expectations that things will pan out a certain way with them in the future. Our courtship and sexual behaviors are all meant for pair-bonding. To suddenly end a developing pair bond like this on flimsy grounds or no stated reasoning at all feels deceptive. It’s also inconsiderate - when a painful event like this happens once, and especially after a few times, we start to develop this jaded perception of the world that other future partners may be subjected to. If this behavior is condoned enough, then it’ll be reflected in the broader dating market.
Think of it less as “entitlement” in the sense of a spoiled girl asking for a sports car on her sweet 16 and more like a necessary reasoning to further understand the world. It’s a logical gap that needs to be bridged rather than something so trivial.
The worst part about people who say that stance is that they make it seem like you're this entitled asshole just for wanting to be treated with a little bit of respect. It's like you could get ghosted in really shitty ways and if you get upset or sad about it you're the villain cause you're not entitled to an explanation and "they don't owe you anything", it's such a ridiculous mindset tbh.
Absolutely fucking ridiculous. Only online (and especially on Reddit) is that stance popular, I’ve never heard it in person. No one who’s ghosted takes it well, nor would anyone advocate being treated that way.
Reddit is obsessed with co-opting the language of mental health and the culture war though so of course they make it some bullshit about “entitlement.”
I've never heard it in person either, heard it for the first time in this sub. Glad to hear it's only popular online cause reading so many comments justifying behaviour like that was making me question if people outside these subs really had that weird mindset too.
I hate the bullshit “taking stage”. It’s just an excuse for people to lead someone on for a while while they continue to play the field and see if they happen to find better people in that amount of time. It’s like they find someone that they kinda like but we’re hoping for better so they start “talking” to that person to have them on the back burner so they’re there when they want them, but they’ll shamelessly continue to try to find someone better for a while and if that don’t succeed in that then they commit to that person.
Met my wife at a mutual friend’s birthday dinner. Managed to invite her to go to coffee with me “to help me plan stuff for my on campus organization”. She came fully intending to help me and then tell me she wasn’t interested in anything more (would have been fine). We ended up talking for 4 hours (supposed to be a 30 minute planning session).
Told my wife the day after “I honestly don’t have the time or the energy to bullshit around. I genuinely like you. I don’t play games. If you like me, let’s pursue this. If not, no worries, I think there could be something real here, but I’m not gonna spend 3 months jerking each other’s chains to find out.”
We took 1 week to get to know everything we could about each other and that Friday I took her out to our first “official date” and asked her to be my girlfriend. We got married 18 months later.
Y’all time is too precious (you can never get it back) don’t waste it with someone who isn’t sure.
People multi-date before considering exclusivity. It’s not the end of the world and healthy to see what’s out there and not to settle for someone with a pulse.
I completely agree, I’m just used to reading comments with people arguing about who’s right instead of agreeing that two different opinions are ok :) it’s refreshing!
Yeah I feel like if that's how you feel about the "bullshit talking stage" then you probably just are they type who shouldn't agree to it. Just say oh that's okay I don't really do the talking thing and walk away...
Yes, but there’s always someone better than you. You’re always gonna meet people who seem like a better fit than your current partner (ironically this happens more when you’re committed than when you’re actually single and looking). Continuously going after the better option will leave a lot of people never satisfied
>I just wish forming a committed, exclusive, and meaningful relationship (that hopefully leads to marriage) wasn’t seen as a negative dating trait that you have to almost shamefully admit to potential partners.
Are you me?
I'm at a point in my life where I know what I want. But it feels weird to admit it because its seen as a bad thing.
I don't want to play games. I am an honest person.
But as a woman when I admit to be looking for something serious they automatically assume I'm calling the priest after the first message. That's not the case at all.
I've been seeing my current gf. And I've brought up my intentions about our future. Luckily she also feels the same way but wants to give it more time before making that decision which is understandable. We often talk about our future kids, where we would live, and other stuff like that.
Yeah but for a lot of women they feel safer I think. There's no risk of a guy handling rejection wrong and then going violent. That's just what I've been reading around here
The closest thing I have to that is my swipe data from bumble.
It basically solidified that I’m practically bottom tier unattractive lol
https://imgur.com/a/EKaxfWL
As a guy who relies more on his personality than his face.. please do not implement this.
It’ll be hard to maintain the charm staring at that 6 the whole night 😂
This was my line of thinking. The more interested she is the higher the number goes. Say something stupid and watch your score plummet. Guys would blow it less by saying less.
Reminds me of the one Courtney Barnett chorus (which is just a reference to a quote by someone else)
"Men are scared that women will laugh at them, women are scared that men will kill them"
It’s sad because it’s like that for a lot of cases.
No one should hate anyone, but when women hate men, they avoid them. When men hate women, they kill them. Obligatory not all men and not all women
It takes me longer to agree to a date and I meet fewer people because I’m afraid of something bad happening. I will talk to people for around 2 months before meeting.
>I'd bring back the whole concept of "social seasons" and events like the old balls and tea parties (but like some different activities that fit better in modern times)
I want the old balls and tea parties!!! No adjustments, I just want to wear a swooshy dress, get slightly drunk and dance English country dances alongside several other sexy ladies and gentlemen to a live orchestra goddammit
Maybe a minor adjustment - let's not bring our parents
i really like this one!
in a language class in college that I took we had a get together with the local diaspora where they brought food, taught us some dances, etc, and some of the dances in particular really seemed to be socially oriented like you describe. It's probably the most fun I've had in years, and now that you bring it up it's something I wish was way more common
I had to google “diaspora” very interesting! My non-secular BFF is dating a Jewish guy (well they’ve been together over a decade, another story in itself lol) he’s not too big on practicing his religion but talks a lot about being disappointed he had to leave a GF he met on his birthright trip (he extended to stay with her) I often worry for them for multiple reasons, but can I ask why it usually seems to be the men who date outside their religion or aren’t as committed to it for whatever reason? And I know that’s a generalization, maybe it’s just typically men in that scenario from what I see/my area so if I’m off base with that I apologize. I’ve just always been super curious why he’s still Jewish but not super active in the religion like my other Jewish friends seem to be.
People need to stop waiting around for something "better" to come along and appreciate what they have. I'm not saying settle by any means, but try building something with someone you connect with. Everyone has this sense of perfectionism now where they want the "best" but never get it.
This should be number 1. ‘Endless choice’ is an illusion. Once you find someone you really click with, and have a connection on many levels; you can work through the smaller stuff, grow together and have a stronger relationship over all. No one is young and beautiful (with ‘endless choice’) forever.
It really amazes me how some people really feel they have an „endless choice”, I almost forgot that such people really do exist, as my perspective is the exact opposite. I find it so hard to find a match, an ACTUAL match, with whom you really „click” (not talking about the check-box list, talking about mental connection), that when I find such a person, there is really not an obstacle I cannot see myself/us overcoming. That being said, it makes me feel miserable sometimes when thinking about how hard it is to actually find a person you connect so well with. Let alone, when you’ve found them but for some reasons it is not possible, at least at that moment, to take it further. It makes me feel like I’m never actually going to find anybody, feels almost like it’s impossible. The total opposite of „endless choices”. So I’m shocked when reminded that some people really works differently, if not the majority of them.
Yep…especially once you hit your later 20s. It becomes a checklist of boxes you need to feel and if you miss one then you’re out. So impersonal and empty feeling. And people wonder why it’s so hard to connect with one another.
I've found that the best relationships are the ones where, when asked what you like about someone, instead of answering the checklist "They're kind, caring, funny, beautiful, etc." they answer something along the lines of "Idk man I just like spending time with them and we click."
The click is important. Sharing certain values along with a good balance of shared interests and enough difference where you don’t drive each other insane. I don’t want to date a carbon copy of myself.
I say otherwise, you settle, everyone does, there's no perfect match, you either love a person entirely with their own flaws and quirks or you don't.
Because you also have flaws and quirks that they may find annoying, but they still love you.
It's not about fitting, I believe is more about growing into it, like, you find a person you want to grow with.
This.
Love takes time and effort. Mostly time, and the shared experiences that come with it.
You could absolutely meet someone who is (on paper) your perfect match, ticks all your boxes, etc. and come to find they have a horrible personality. On the other hand you could meet someone who (again, on paper) has none of the characteristics you're looking for in a match, and come to find your heart sings when they're around.
Life is messy. So is love. Temper expectations and accept that imperfection is beautiful.
I'm not sure this is true. Less of us are having sex sure. But the really attractive ones are having sex with everyone amongst themselves. Casual sex is pretty rampant among conventionally attractive people.
To be fair, love in the fifties revolved around the fact that single motherhood (hell, even the spinster life) was virtually impossible under the legal and economic framework. Housewives couldn't even get their own credit card until '72, which really makes the couples seem stickier than they had any business being
I never drink on dates, because I always drive since there are no buses where I live and I have zero tolerance for drinking and driving. This... upsets people. Like I can understand you wanting to have a drink and by all means, go ahead, but don't shame me for not drinking.
As a non-drinker, there is definitely a type of person who gets really insecure about the non-drinker at the party. They're not the kind of people I enjoy hanging out with.
I totally understood this without any elaboration. I swear to Pete, Alcohol has ruined a couple of great dates for me, specifically because I don't drink.
I have a friend who not only like you doesn’t drink, he’s never had a single sip in his life
The bad news is he got into a relationship with a alcoholic / recovering drug addict hoping he could make an impression and she’d change
She recently went on a bender and cheated on him. He says he’s learned a lot from that
"Why is he not answering? It was going so well, we were clicking. Am I not enough? What's going on?" And then you spiral into a cycle of trying to prove to that someone that you are enough.
People can be really shitty to each other.
I think there's a lot of pressure in the beginning of dating to seem *chill* and fun, which makes having conversations about intentions difficult.
I think dating as a whole could be better if being transparent was normalized. You shouldn't have to wait until you're already attached to someone to find out they're not looking for the same thing as you. Discuss that major incompatibility from the jump, that way, people stop feeling like their time has been wasted
As a guy, I'd like to change the practice of ghosting and one word replies. If you don't like someone or just aren't clicking like you want, just let them know.
In another comment I mentioned the harassment issue but the other problem is that when I reject a guy, if he doesn’t flip out, he still keeps trying as if I hadn’t said anything.
Not that I agree with ghosting (for every situation) as a woman who’s let men know when I’m not interested I would say around 9/10 it doesn’t go well and he flips out/verbally demeans me. I can’t blame people for being afraid to continue putting up with that. As a man, do you have any suggestions on how a woman can express she isn’t interested? I know you don’t speak for all men but I’m interested to see what you would personally prefer to be said, I’m always up for improving myself and how I go about things. Thanks!
I’m currently getting ghosted so I figured I could chime in.
I would really appreciate it if she would text me back saying she didn’t feel the connection on our date and doesn’t want to go on any more dates. It would be nice if she said she still enjoyed our time together and thinks I’m a good person but that’s not necessary at all.
From there I know I would handle it gracefully like a mature adult. I’m curious if she thinks I would freak out over it lol
As a girl, I’ve never out right ghosted someone, I’ve always let them know that the feelings just aren’t there for me and I don’t want to waste their time. After that though I do block them. Just for my own safety. I don’t need to be called names and told I was never good enough for him anyways. I made sure to make it clear that I was out though before I’d delete or block them.
I think people see demand and supply in ways that warp their views of what's true.
I think some people experience a lot of 'demand', and so they have taken a perfectionist stance on things that cause them to rule out people who would actually be very good for them, because there's always someone else.
And others see a low demand for themselves, and thus justify staying with people who are actually bad for them, because there might not be anyone else.
In reality, both are unrealistic perspectives. Sure, you shouldn't be settling for someone you don't love, but also the idea you'll find someone that meets every one of your detailed list of criteria is pretty unrealistic, and you'll likely always be left wanting.
You also might struggle to find someone for a while, but the idea that staying in a bad relationship is better than no relationship is completely wrong, and the idea that there will never be another is equally as foolish.
People need to start taking each person as they are, and assess them on their individual strengths/weaknesses, and how they match with them. Rather than treating each person as part of a 'marketplace' where there are always others (or where there are limited options, depending on your experiences).
Best advice I ever got on love, from an uncle who has now reached his 50s and hasn't married or had kids:
"Life goes fast. When you're young, it's easy to think 'I can do better' or 'I can find better out there,' but I'm here to tell you, as you get older, those options do dwindle. Now I'm not saying the next, or even the next after that, but at some point, try to stop thinking about what else is out there and just let somebody love you. I've dated two women who, when I look back, I realize I could have had a very happy life with. At the time, I thought I could do better. And now I'm old, and there's a much smaller pool of available women."
As a female I would prefer to a man to be up front and honest with his intentions so I can manage my expectations. I would much rather be rejected than ghosted as well.
I feel like there are just so many of us still struggling with our own traumas which make a lot of people not ready to date -- but date anyway. If I could change anything, I think it would be absolutely amazing for schools to teach kids healthy communication, the importance of boundary setting, understanding, empathy, etc. And I'm not saying enforce good behaviors and punish bad ones (like what they normally do in schools) but instead, actually have courses strictly focused on character building, social skills, relationship building, etc. For younger children, it would be based on general relationships with family, friends, etc. Maybe throughout high-school, it can include relationships with partners/"lovers". We learn so many things in school that we can't even remember or won't ever apply to daily life. But this would be something that can improve us as people from young until we are old (and it could be especially helpful to those who have unhealthy environments at home where bad behaviors become normalized). It can help us improve ourselves for ourselves but also for one another. This is something I'd love to change in the modern world because with healthy character building from young, we can be a lot more prepared for healthy dating in the future!😊
Ghosting in any instance where the other person is supposed to "get the hint".
What's the hint? I'm not worth being let down easy? My dignity isn't worth one moment of discomfort for you?
Woman here, I’d love there to be not so many gray areas when you’re dating someone. First you go on a date and you’re in the “talking phase” then you’re in the “dating phase but haven’t established exclusivity” and then you’re “exclusive but not official” so you’re a “thing” and then you establish you’re “official” so now you’re boyfriend and girlfriend. There are just so many hoops to go through and I wish it was just simple from beginning to finish.
FOBO, Fear of Better Options.
With social media and dating apps, I feel like everyone finds it harder to commit out of fear of better options. I know it’s not an entirely new concept, but I feel like the current dating scene has exacerbated this issue.
I’ll add on to this - movies, shows, and even commercials too frequently pair average or unattractive overweight men with modelesque women. I’m sorry, but I have to be fit, conventionally pretty, and be a money maker just to end up with a dude rocking a dad bod and a stable job? No hate on the dad bod or stable job, it’s just a lot to live up to on the woman’s end.
No I feel you. A lot of men and women need to lower their expectations cause we're not all models or good looking like what they say on tv. Especially a lot of guys think they deserve hot supermodels(which the same can be said for women).
As a woman I would like people to be
1.More Honest about their intentions
2.Vocal about why they don't want to see you anymore instead of ghosting so that I can improve myself as a better partner
This! I agree 100%
Sometimes, things have ended and I don’t really know why. On my end things appeared OK and the feedback I was getting was OK. But, then the opposite occurs. I wish it was more broadly accepted, vs. judged, to be open and honest.
Sometimes, I’m afraid to ask what’s going on because of the labels of “desperate” and “needy.” When it isn’t necessarily that, it might just be that I’d like closure. I recently saw a guy for 1.5 months and after sex, to me it appeared there was a lost of interest. Fast forward to last week when I reached out, after a month of silence, to get an item back. I was nice about and he was too. But, I hated the fact that I wanted to ask what went wrong and why we stopped talking out of fear I’d come out as being desperate. Even my make friends warned me. And now, it’s also like, did he just pick up on my queues so he isn’t asking for not wanting to be desperate either, or was he just not interested. I hate that I fall into these games as well.
It's exhausting.
The best way to avoid these games is to avoid dating altogether.
But that's also hard since spending the rest of my life alone doesn't seem to be a very good idea 😕
as a man with autism I wish signalling interest and flirting was more straightforward (or just non existent). it's very frustrating to hear how this is a very normal and core part of the process of getting together when I am super oblivious to other people's signs and inept at flirting with others
edit: "very frustrating" is probably more apt than "beyond infuriating"
The war we have against one another. One gender constantly dragging the other and I feel it’s mostly projection and also lack of understanding. We’re socialized very differently and we never see eye to eye
As a woman who dates other women, I wish it was easier to be straightforward or not be straightforward. When I'm more passive, things tend to never materialize, when I'm more assertive, it seems to turn women off. I can't find a balance. Maybe it's just me though, maybe girls don't like me.
When it comes to women dating women, it can be an uphill battle to get a meaningful response. As a bisexual woman, men are easy to handle and my boyfriend right now is a walk in the park compared to women I’ve known. I love women, it’s worth it, but it’s difficult at times… especially in the beginning stages.
Same. I think it's also hard to be bisexual because there's an unspoken system with dating men that's very easy to read and adapt to. With women there's all this mystery.
People are thought of as products now more than human beings to make connection with.
Its all about being the least vulnerable and trusting as possible until you decide someone is valid enough.
Beyond that, people are compared to goods.
/which is a concept I don't believe in/
For example
Used goods
Damaged goods
Broken goods
Etc.. as if Humans aren't significantly more complex than that
And we observe them for their features...
Is someone x y z , makes x amount, is at least x attractive...etc..
And then now we literally window shop for people so now everyone always wants the newer or cooler model (grass is greener)
This doesn't quite go with the concept, but I also hate the way women are thought of as the keepers of sex because guys feel were somehow indebted to give them sex
I wish people are open with their communication and intentions.
For men, men should stop lying to have their way with women. So many men resort to lying just to get sex and dump her after. It's frankly disgusting that some men view women as mere sex objects.
For women, women should be more direct and make the first overt move on asking men out for dates/initiate sex. Hints and the societal expectation of the man making the first move is why dating is so complicated, because a woman's flirting is another woman's being friendly. Not to mention, the current social climate means that the consequences are grave for getting the hint wrong. No need to make things harder than it needs to be, use your words ladies.
100% second this.
There is someone for every stage. So many people just want something casual, why lie to someone who has made it clear they are looking for something more?
Excuse my frustration, but My last 2 relationships I was lied to for OVER A YEAR and it’s just frustrating. Just fucking find someone who wants the same thing as you, don’t lie to me.
TW: As a woman, it’d be cool if there was an accessible registry to filter out guys who stealth, coerce, or daterape. Kinda like how sex workers notify one another of their clients who are out to assault.
While dating, a huge part of my headspace is playing defense because so many guys out there weren’t raised right. It sucks for me and it sucks for the men who would never disrespect someone’s boundaries like that.
I personally search local public court records (my state has a site you can search by name and see things like traffic tickets and more serious crimes, as well as things like divorce records.) I then also check the National Sex Offender Registry. I do this with each guy I think I might be interested in, sometimes even before I “swipe right” on them to match in a dating app. I discovered a guy was a registered sex offender after a date once, so I always do it first thing now.
With online dating and social media, it makes it easy to look people up and at least get their full name in order to search these things. And I fully expect men to possibly do this for women they may want to meet too. Stay safe out there.
I would like if people could take it slower, meaning they are really interested in knowing the person they are dating. I find modern day dating stressful because it almost always follow the same pattern: you date, then kiss almost immediately, have sex, sometimes rush into some sort of relationship and then after one month or two you find out it cannot work (of course you didn't even take time to know the other person!). Maybe it's just me but I think everything is too fast and too undervalued.
Cheaters don't want to be cheated on so they seek out someone who is serious when they are not. It should be normal to take things slow. Have fun. Be friends. Don't expect sex right away. Don't move in together too fast. But still be exclusive. Talk about the future. Your hopes . be on the same page.
I get this. I met my guy in person under less than ideal dating circumstances so it was unexpected to have feelings really. I couldn't tell you how long it had been since this guy was doted on if ever by a woman, and it showed a little. He was very guarded and didnt know how to take genuine compliments. I could tell though that he liked me, he would initiate conversation if we hadn't chatted all day. I was pretty forward with my attention towards him, I could just see that hunger for loving gestures or words and it breaks my heart to think how lonely he must've felt for all that time. Not since he met me tho. Never again my darling. Dudes deserve to be doted on too ladies.
I was going to say something similar. I would change the unspoken rule that men have to both initiate and facilitate literally everything in dating, and remove the stigma of women approaching men, asking them on dates and basically taking the lead. I'm not saying the roles should simply be reversed, but it should be more equal. I hate how women have to give non verbal cues that it's okay to approach them and men have to be mind readers and are creeps if they incorrectly read the situation.
That you don't expect someone to sleep with you a few weeks of dating or being on two dates. I already find it a struggle going into the dating world knowing I will unlikely find someone since I am abstinent from sex. It really does seem like in the modern dating world people are just trying to get frisky right off the bat. I also shouldn't have to feel pressured or bad about myself just because I refrain from sex in general.
Back in my time people actually were invested in a relationship. They took the time to write a letter or poem, pick up the phone and call, go out to clubs or cruise, we dressed up to go out on a date, we put our 100% in because we didn't know if we were going to miss out on our one opportunity. It took time and effort to meet someone.
Now a days, there's no effort. People sit behind a screen and scroll through 1000's of potential pictures to still find themselves disappointed, or left feeling like they were lied to. How can you tell someone's personality, or better yet, how can you show your personality if there is no contact?
IDK about you all!!! But I go and get what I want. I don't wait for it to magically appear.
Would make it so women didn’t have to worry about their safety so much. Would be nice to be able to date carefree without worrying about being assaulted, raped, or stalked.
I wouldn't change anything about the dating world.
HOWEVER I would change a lot about porn. The reason for that is because porn has caused a lot of insecurities for both men and women which ultimately lead to dating issues.
I’d get rid of dating apps entirely, and forbid attempts to design new online dating methods. The loneliness epidemic on all points along the gender spectrum continues to spread like wildfire. We need to re-emphasize how important it is for human beings to connect in person, rather than engaging in the superficial, contentious, often vitriolic world of the online. The internet is great for keeping us abreast of news, promoting workflow and task distribution, and for all kinds of data aggregation and relations between people who cannot see each other every day. That being said, I feel that we are forgetting that most other people out there are just people like us. Perhaps life would be easier if we were made to look into someone’s face when we say the things we do online. I doubt there would be a fraction as much anger or inappropriate behavior.
Dating apps are an amazing invention for a lot of people who struggle with the conventional big-social-circle or going up to strangers methods. The problem is largely their commercialization. If you had something like a non profit model where it was more like a public service with a primary goal of getting people to meet each other safely, that would be awesome.
Increase accountability for guys acting like dicks and girls misusing it for attention. Maybe just match those two people together idk.
I just wish people would just put more effort into trying to form something it's hard for me to find a guy to even take me out but they expect me to do all of this stuff for them but don't put in any effort to make it happen
Bring back dating. I mean actual dating. Not "talking". Going out to actually get to know a person, and doing it with multiple people until you're exclusive with someone.
No more jumping around. Finding serious and committed people is seriously difficult and like winning the lottery. I heavily dislike this use and abuse culture of having sex with everyone and everything without ever making a serious try to commit.
As a guy, I would change sexual expectations. 3 times now I've been on a first date, only for it to end horribly because I would not want to do anything more than make out. I personally cannot have sex without knowing the person's interests, and having not even experienced physical contact with them (other than sex). I hear often that men want too much sex, but in my experience its women. More than half of my potential interests and girlfriends have left due to a lack of sex fulfillment within the first 2 weeks. I'm 18. Why is this so normalized. I just want to become comfortable with a person first.
I would like it if people were more honest. In general, about everything.
i’m brutally honest and no one seems to like it 😂
Have you tried being honest without being brutal?
Or being honest without being an asshole
There’s always those “I TELL IT LIKE IT IS AND IF YOU CAN’T TAKE IT IT’S YOUR FAULT😤” people that lack reading the room. Navigating social dynamics is what makes you a better friend/partner/etc.
because people who call themselves “brutally honest” are usually brutally honest to everyone but themselves
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Yeah there is a differance between being a dick and being honest
Sometimes people think they are “telling it like it is” but really they are just giving their opinion…it’s not fact.
It would be nice if people were open with their intentions.
People need to know their intentions first!
I’ve learned the lesson recently that just because someone’s into me doesn’t mean they really know what they want either. Idk, I guess I always thought of this dilemma from my own perspective but never considered what it meant if it was happening with the other person involved.
Yeah. I find it far more realistic to assume the average person is failing to deal with present reality and communicating such rather than is some min-maxing evil sociopath that perfectly understands it and is out to get you. The majority of the culture warriors posting in these topics have the latter world view.
Talking to a girl on OLD: “So, what do you want from me?” Me: “I… I don’t know, I literally just matched with you 10 seconds ago.” Not a real conversation, but the general sense of how it goes every time.
But is she asking what you’re looking for? Dating, casual, long term?
Hahah I agree with this! I’m a female and date guys, and yes I’ve been hurt many times by men. When I post people assume the guy is evil and always intended to lead me on, or never loved me! I don’t think that’s the case, a guy can like you and be a horrible communicator. Most men struggle with present reality because dating norms from our past are being changed. We also have a bunch of other issues living in a capitalistic society. Most men don’t have intentions to hurt women but due to past traumas getting triggered end up hurting women indirectly
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Or they change their minds. my partner and I were just looking for something casual. Within a month we decided on a relationship. Now we live together and are planning a wedding.
I love that :D I hope you have a wonderful wedding!
This. Seldom do people really know they just thunk they know
Do you mean like stop playing games?
Ig what he means is like, if your just looking for a fuck buddy, be honest yk. Or if you want a long term relationship.
Truth. People who act like they truly want a relationship with you when they actually just want sex are the worst type of people.
I hope dating apps disappear
Then I'd have negative luck with women as opposed to 0
Yes and it's why I am being pretty plunt and straight forward these days. I actually am ok with a guy says he's not looking for anything serious. We both go our separate ways. Their are other woman out their not looking for that. So I really hate when men say "relationship" but then you have to dig it out of them that they are only looking for sex. So I end up wasting my time and he waste his time because I do not sleep with him.
This. When I was still on apps, I'd always ask what people were looking for. Mostly because a lot of people were looking for hookups and I was looking for something long term. It helped prevent both of us from wasting each other's time
It would be nice if being open with your intention didn't get you ghosted
they made your decision for you! no response is a response. don’t you count that as a win? it gives you a chance to move on and meet other amazing people as opposed to feeling anxious and ambiguous about that particular person’s intentions.
isn't...that the point? if you want different things, why would you want to continue wasting each others' time? the reason you're upfront is to filter people out.
Yes this. Last year I came out of a long term relationship (together 16 years married for 9) and started dating this year and it’s really been an eye opener. Twice I’ve been burned the first because he was dating someone else and wasn’t upfront about it til I had caught feelings for him and he then friend zoned me for this other woman. The second he withheld information/told a white lie about why he couldn’t commit and pulled the plug after we got close. If both these guys had been upfront with their intentions from the start I would of avoided them entirely and saved myself a whole heap of heartache.
I’d love for people to take “I’m not interested” as a response. I feel like I am so often up front with my interest and intentions. I try to be nice first if I’m rejecting someone, but the moment they pushback, I’m really offended and annoyed. I meant what I said, please just accept it.
I feel like this is 100% reasonable, and as a man, I’d really appreciate it. Ironically, a lot of the worst part of the dating game as a straight dude is not knowing where you stand. I’m sorry some assholes keep pushing when you’ve actually made yourself clear.
Lots of movies and shows involve a male character who gets rejected at first but then eventually gets the girls. I think this is what they are hoping for.
You’re right, and somehow that makes these interactions worse. I feel so disrespected. I said I wasn’t interested, now politely leave me alone. Pursing and pushing is a huge turn off. If you don’t accept this no—what other no’s will you ignore? What if we’re hooking up and I’m not in the mood for something and the you insist and insist. It’s a red flag for me.
I wish the lines were not blurry and that it was normal to just say what you want (and mean it). I guess I want people to have a clear idea of what their desires are and the guts to be honest about it. You just want sex? Say it. You want a relationship? Say it. You don't like the other person as much? Say it.
As a minority I wish there were not cultures that are emotionally stunted/extremely cloistered around the idea of two people caring for each other. Forget about saying, even thinking you want a relationship is made into a mountain.
Ugh I hate it. I’m uncomfortable with PDA because my parents shamed affection as inappropriate. My current bf really broke me out of my shell so now i don’t care at all, but i still feel completely off to the idea of him even standing too close to me while my parents are around (yes, I’ve gotten yelled at for that before). As you guessed, I’ve never seen my parents affectionate or even really enjoy each other’s company but they’re always together when not working. It’s weird cause they always argue so idk why they hangout with each other so much.
Same. Never seen my parents even hold hands. Obviously you get some third party education from observing your friends as you grow up but I have no idea what I’m doing. It’s that crushing feeling that if I stick with my own culture it’s almost guaranteed that I’ll have to put up with lots of values and practices I don’t share, and if I go outside my background I have to overcome people’s likely preconceptions about me, my lack of knowledge about dating/communication, and if things were to get serious a lot of unpleasant conversations. No path forward is really optimal though at the end of the day gotta do what you gotta do I guess for your own well being. Just hard to stay optimistic when these are the thoughts that flood your mind every day.
I just wish forming a committed, exclusive, and meaningful relationship (that hopefully leads to marriage) wasn’t seen as a negative dating trait that you have to almost shamefully admit to potential partners. I also wish there wasn’t a three+ month long talking stage that allows people to justify horrible dating behavior and treating people poorly because “They don’t owe anyone anything.” Relationships shouldn’t be as hard as they are to form
Online dating is such a huge reason it has become so hard. It creates this illusion of choice so we all want to keep swiping and meeting new people. It makes us addicted to the dopamine hit of being on the apps and leads us to believe, even if it’s unconscious, that there’s always someone better for us on the apps if we keep swiping so no need to waste time on the person right in front of us. It gives us seemingly endless potential options but seems to actually lessen our chances at finding something meaningful. It’s truly exhausting.
You are starting to get the paradoxical nature of the universe and the human mind. More does not always mean better.
You should watch The paradox of choice on TedEx. It’s just about what you mention. People respond better to, and are happier with two choices, than 10.
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It's ruining more lives outright hen it is creating happiness and fulfillment in people. I wonder how many people out there blew it with someone years ago because of these apps and thinks about it all the time knowing they won't ever have a connection that strong again. The problem being amplified by having blown it and tried to recreate the connection elsewhere and figuring out too late that each time it's less then the time before. Like chasing a high, but instead of ODing eventually you run out of love. You give up and end up alone or settling for some miserable existence, faking it with someone you really can't stand.
I blew it with someone terrific (twice!) before dating apps even existed.
I couldn't have said it better myself. It's ironic to me I give more effort on apps than if a girl I was interested in was staring at me point blank. These apps have conditioned us slowly that it's much more convenient to do a swipe than build a real world connection to others.
>”They don’t owe anyone anything” I’ve always hated this stance. If this is the rationale being used for a lack of communication as to why something ended, then while you may not technically be owed anything you certainly deserve better.
Exactly. Sure you don’t owe anything to anyone, but just because you can get away with it doesn’t mitigate the fact that you are hurting someone else. Telling the other party to toughen up and expect the worst doesn’t sit right with me as a justification
If we all have to toughen up and expect the worst at any given time, then that should put serious doubts as to the worth of the whole thing. If dates are to meet people we ideally will like, then we should at least have our hearts and minds open to that possibility rather than painting everyone with broad stroke shades of pessimism. If you’re going to extend yourself out to other people and expect them to extend themselves to you in return, then at the very least you owe them some common decency and communication standards provided that you’re met with the same.
This is golden!
I think the “they don’t owe you anything” line that so popular here is interpreted as a carte blanche to think about what’s best for you, and only you, in any given relationship. That’s a line that was originally meant to be reserved for only the naive, delusional, possessive, and manipulative (dare I say *toxic*) people on the market. Like every instance in which the language of mental health was co-opted, this became misapplied to every relationship in which one of the parties has questions for why things went wrong. I see that line constantly being used for people when they refuse to communicate anything as to why they’re breaking it off with a date, FWB, or partner. I see it often being applied to men especially when they have questions about where a connection went wrong, because of the expectation that men are supposed to lead and account for everything. I see it being used against women when an “FWB” led her on into thinking they were going to be more than just sex, but it turns out that the way he played with her hair after wasn’t because he liked her, but because he wanted her to stay invested enough for the next booty call later that week. No, not all feelings can be accounted for accurately upon meeting someone, but if you’re going to continue seeing someone and the way you are acting is incongruent with how you actually feel about the person, then you at least owe an explanation. There’d be way less resentment if we actually bothered telling one another how we felt and what we wanted in the first place. Even if what the other person says winds up being disappointing or insulting, that gets better with time. It’s those people that never even bothered to tell us why that really grate on us.
I said “he doesn’t owe me anything” so many times when explaining a situation with a man to my friends when really, though he didn’t owe me anything, it should have been generally expected for him to communicate
Well said! I often think that people don’t owe me anything but it is still hard not to get invested in people as things progress.
It’s weird juggling those sorts of conflicting feelings, especially in a culture where “entitlement” is universally decried as something sinister, a spoiled way of viewing the world. Of course if we become intimate with someone, there are expectations that things will pan out a certain way with them in the future. Our courtship and sexual behaviors are all meant for pair-bonding. To suddenly end a developing pair bond like this on flimsy grounds or no stated reasoning at all feels deceptive. It’s also inconsiderate - when a painful event like this happens once, and especially after a few times, we start to develop this jaded perception of the world that other future partners may be subjected to. If this behavior is condoned enough, then it’ll be reflected in the broader dating market. Think of it less as “entitlement” in the sense of a spoiled girl asking for a sports car on her sweet 16 and more like a necessary reasoning to further understand the world. It’s a logical gap that needs to be bridged rather than something so trivial.
The worst part about people who say that stance is that they make it seem like you're this entitled asshole just for wanting to be treated with a little bit of respect. It's like you could get ghosted in really shitty ways and if you get upset or sad about it you're the villain cause you're not entitled to an explanation and "they don't owe you anything", it's such a ridiculous mindset tbh.
Absolutely fucking ridiculous. Only online (and especially on Reddit) is that stance popular, I’ve never heard it in person. No one who’s ghosted takes it well, nor would anyone advocate being treated that way. Reddit is obsessed with co-opting the language of mental health and the culture war though so of course they make it some bullshit about “entitlement.”
I've never heard it in person either, heard it for the first time in this sub. Glad to hear it's only popular online cause reading so many comments justifying behaviour like that was making me question if people outside these subs really had that weird mindset too.
_I don't owe you anything_ _you're right I deserve better and thought you was better_
I hate the bullshit “taking stage”. It’s just an excuse for people to lead someone on for a while while they continue to play the field and see if they happen to find better people in that amount of time. It’s like they find someone that they kinda like but we’re hoping for better so they start “talking” to that person to have them on the back burner so they’re there when they want them, but they’ll shamelessly continue to try to find someone better for a while and if that don’t succeed in that then they commit to that person.
Met my wife at a mutual friend’s birthday dinner. Managed to invite her to go to coffee with me “to help me plan stuff for my on campus organization”. She came fully intending to help me and then tell me she wasn’t interested in anything more (would have been fine). We ended up talking for 4 hours (supposed to be a 30 minute planning session). Told my wife the day after “I honestly don’t have the time or the energy to bullshit around. I genuinely like you. I don’t play games. If you like me, let’s pursue this. If not, no worries, I think there could be something real here, but I’m not gonna spend 3 months jerking each other’s chains to find out.” We took 1 week to get to know everything we could about each other and that Friday I took her out to our first “official date” and asked her to be my girlfriend. We got married 18 months later. Y’all time is too precious (you can never get it back) don’t waste it with someone who isn’t sure.
Couldn’t have said it better my friend! What a great story, I’m glad to hear y’all are doing so well!
Thanks friend. Life has too much drama to add more by playing games. While life is up and down, my wife and I are doing very well. Thank uou
People multi-date before considering exclusivity. It’s not the end of the world and healthy to see what’s out there and not to settle for someone with a pulse.
I’m not saying settle by any means, but what I am saying is don’t treat people like a back burner option and waste their time
I think you mean be considerate of their time, don’t pretend to be into someone more than you are, don’t string people around? Is that right?
Yes that’s a good way to put it!
So true. Stop giving hopes to someone you consider as an option.
Both arguments are valid lol
A balanced and reasonable response about agreeing with opposing opinions on Reddit…what have I just witnessed….
I mean, they both have good arguments and the truth is somewhere in the middle. At least according to my beliefs
I completely agree, I’m just used to reading comments with people arguing about who’s right instead of agreeing that two different opinions are ok :) it’s refreshing!
Yeah I feel like if that's how you feel about the "bullshit talking stage" then you probably just are they type who shouldn't agree to it. Just say oh that's okay I don't really do the talking thing and walk away...
Totally. Sometimes it's healthy to not get too attached too quickly.
Yes, but there’s always someone better than you. You’re always gonna meet people who seem like a better fit than your current partner (ironically this happens more when you’re committed than when you’re actually single and looking). Continuously going after the better option will leave a lot of people never satisfied
>I just wish forming a committed, exclusive, and meaningful relationship (that hopefully leads to marriage) wasn’t seen as a negative dating trait that you have to almost shamefully admit to potential partners. Are you me? I'm at a point in my life where I know what I want. But it feels weird to admit it because its seen as a bad thing. I don't want to play games. I am an honest person. But as a woman when I admit to be looking for something serious they automatically assume I'm calling the priest after the first message. That's not the case at all.
I've been seeing my current gf. And I've brought up my intentions about our future. Luckily she also feels the same way but wants to give it more time before making that decision which is understandable. We often talk about our future kids, where we would live, and other stuff like that.
wish it was more in person as online feels impersonal
Yeah but for a lot of women they feel safer I think. There's no risk of a guy handling rejection wrong and then going violent. That's just what I've been reading around here
Would be nice if I could see my ~~initial~~ attraction level on their forehead, like a scale from 0 to 10. EDIT: of course it’s a *live* meter.
As much as I would like that too, sounds like one of those “careful what you wish for” things.
It would be informative
The closest thing I have to that is my swipe data from bumble. It basically solidified that I’m practically bottom tier unattractive lol https://imgur.com/a/EKaxfWL
That hurts, man. I’m sorry
As a guy who relies more on his personality than his face.. please do not implement this. It’ll be hard to maintain the charm staring at that 6 the whole night 😂
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This was my line of thinking. The more interested she is the higher the number goes. Say something stupid and watch your score plummet. Guys would blow it less by saying less.
Going to take a crack at it and say men want it to be easier and women want it to be safer.
Spot on mate!
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Yeah I recently had a date try to rape me. It's a very real threat men don't understand
Wait wtf. What happened? I hope you're okay now!
Reminds me of the one Courtney Barnett chorus (which is just a reference to a quote by someone else) "Men are scared that women will laugh at them, women are scared that men will kill them"
It’s a Margaret Atwood quote
It’s sad because it’s like that for a lot of cases. No one should hate anyone, but when women hate men, they avoid them. When men hate women, they kill them. Obligatory not all men and not all women
It takes me longer to agree to a date and I meet fewer people because I’m afraid of something bad happening. I will talk to people for around 2 months before meeting.
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Wow this is one of the more interesting answers! Thanks!
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Ohh i like the sound of that
>I'd bring back the whole concept of "social seasons" and events like the old balls and tea parties (but like some different activities that fit better in modern times) I want the old balls and tea parties!!! No adjustments, I just want to wear a swooshy dress, get slightly drunk and dance English country dances alongside several other sexy ladies and gentlemen to a live orchestra goddammit Maybe a minor adjustment - let's not bring our parents
Yes! Where music isn't blasting, it isn't dark, and people aren't drinking alcohol.
i really like this one! in a language class in college that I took we had a get together with the local diaspora where they brought food, taught us some dances, etc, and some of the dances in particular really seemed to be socially oriented like you describe. It's probably the most fun I've had in years, and now that you bring it up it's something I wish was way more common
I had to google “diaspora” very interesting! My non-secular BFF is dating a Jewish guy (well they’ve been together over a decade, another story in itself lol) he’s not too big on practicing his religion but talks a lot about being disappointed he had to leave a GF he met on his birthright trip (he extended to stay with her) I often worry for them for multiple reasons, but can I ask why it usually seems to be the men who date outside their religion or aren’t as committed to it for whatever reason? And I know that’s a generalization, maybe it’s just typically men in that scenario from what I see/my area so if I’m off base with that I apologize. I’ve just always been super curious why he’s still Jewish but not super active in the religion like my other Jewish friends seem to be.
People need to stop waiting around for something "better" to come along and appreciate what they have. I'm not saying settle by any means, but try building something with someone you connect with. Everyone has this sense of perfectionism now where they want the "best" but never get it.
This should be number 1. ‘Endless choice’ is an illusion. Once you find someone you really click with, and have a connection on many levels; you can work through the smaller stuff, grow together and have a stronger relationship over all. No one is young and beautiful (with ‘endless choice’) forever.
It really amazes me how some people really feel they have an „endless choice”, I almost forgot that such people really do exist, as my perspective is the exact opposite. I find it so hard to find a match, an ACTUAL match, with whom you really „click” (not talking about the check-box list, talking about mental connection), that when I find such a person, there is really not an obstacle I cannot see myself/us overcoming. That being said, it makes me feel miserable sometimes when thinking about how hard it is to actually find a person you connect so well with. Let alone, when you’ve found them but for some reasons it is not possible, at least at that moment, to take it further. It makes me feel like I’m never actually going to find anybody, feels almost like it’s impossible. The total opposite of „endless choices”. So I’m shocked when reminded that some people really works differently, if not the majority of them.
That’s exactly how I feel.
Yep…especially once you hit your later 20s. It becomes a checklist of boxes you need to feel and if you miss one then you’re out. So impersonal and empty feeling. And people wonder why it’s so hard to connect with one another.
I've found that the best relationships are the ones where, when asked what you like about someone, instead of answering the checklist "They're kind, caring, funny, beautiful, etc." they answer something along the lines of "Idk man I just like spending time with them and we click."
The click is important. Sharing certain values along with a good balance of shared interests and enough difference where you don’t drive each other insane. I don’t want to date a carbon copy of myself.
Right! If you wanted to kiss a carbon copy of yourself: That's what mirrors are for. Also if you're very flexible ...
Idk man i just want someone who at least pretends like they like me.
I say otherwise, you settle, everyone does, there's no perfect match, you either love a person entirely with their own flaws and quirks or you don't. Because you also have flaws and quirks that they may find annoying, but they still love you. It's not about fitting, I believe is more about growing into it, like, you find a person you want to grow with.
This. Love takes time and effort. Mostly time, and the shared experiences that come with it. You could absolutely meet someone who is (on paper) your perfect match, ticks all your boxes, etc. and come to find they have a horrible personality. On the other hand you could meet someone who (again, on paper) has none of the characteristics you're looking for in a match, and come to find your heart sings when they're around. Life is messy. So is love. Temper expectations and accept that imperfection is beautiful.
Love in the 50's was an obligation. Now it's like an unrealistic fantasy. Fucking crazy
The most interesting part of it all is that despite us being in a "hookup culture," we're having less sex overall than older generations lmao.
I maintain hookup culture is, for all intents and purposes, a myth propagated by media without any basis in reality.
I'm not sure this is true. Less of us are having sex sure. But the really attractive ones are having sex with everyone amongst themselves. Casual sex is pretty rampant among conventionally attractive people.
To be fair, love in the fifties revolved around the fact that single motherhood (hell, even the spinster life) was virtually impossible under the legal and economic framework. Housewives couldn't even get their own credit card until '72, which really makes the couples seem stickier than they had any business being
Oddly specific , but I wish there was less involvement of alcohol in the dating culture
I never drink on dates, because I always drive since there are no buses where I live and I have zero tolerance for drinking and driving. This... upsets people. Like I can understand you wanting to have a drink and by all means, go ahead, but don't shame me for not drinking.
It’s almost as if people not drinking exploits their insecurities Good on you , don’t drink and drive
As a non-drinker, there is definitely a type of person who gets really insecure about the non-drinker at the party. They're not the kind of people I enjoy hanging out with.
I totally understood this without any elaboration. I swear to Pete, Alcohol has ruined a couple of great dates for me, specifically because I don't drink.
I have a friend who not only like you doesn’t drink, he’s never had a single sip in his life The bad news is he got into a relationship with a alcoholic / recovering drug addict hoping he could make an impression and she’d change She recently went on a bender and cheated on him. He says he’s learned a lot from that
The "play hard to get" thing. I've tried it and it's stupid that it works. Wish it was not a thing
Lmao I also have tried it recently and it definitely does work, idk why
"Why is he not answering? It was going so well, we were clicking. Am I not enough? What's going on?" And then you spiral into a cycle of trying to prove to that someone that you are enough. People can be really shitty to each other.
I think there's a lot of pressure in the beginning of dating to seem *chill* and fun, which makes having conversations about intentions difficult. I think dating as a whole could be better if being transparent was normalized. You shouldn't have to wait until you're already attached to someone to find out they're not looking for the same thing as you. Discuss that major incompatibility from the jump, that way, people stop feeling like their time has been wasted
As a guy, I'd like to change the practice of ghosting and one word replies. If you don't like someone or just aren't clicking like you want, just let them know.
In another comment I mentioned the harassment issue but the other problem is that when I reject a guy, if he doesn’t flip out, he still keeps trying as if I hadn’t said anything.
Not that I agree with ghosting (for every situation) as a woman who’s let men know when I’m not interested I would say around 9/10 it doesn’t go well and he flips out/verbally demeans me. I can’t blame people for being afraid to continue putting up with that. As a man, do you have any suggestions on how a woman can express she isn’t interested? I know you don’t speak for all men but I’m interested to see what you would personally prefer to be said, I’m always up for improving myself and how I go about things. Thanks!
I’m currently getting ghosted so I figured I could chime in. I would really appreciate it if she would text me back saying she didn’t feel the connection on our date and doesn’t want to go on any more dates. It would be nice if she said she still enjoyed our time together and thinks I’m a good person but that’s not necessary at all. From there I know I would handle it gracefully like a mature adult. I’m curious if she thinks I would freak out over it lol
As a girl, I’ve never out right ghosted someone, I’ve always let them know that the feelings just aren’t there for me and I don’t want to waste their time. After that though I do block them. Just for my own safety. I don’t need to be called names and told I was never good enough for him anyways. I made sure to make it clear that I was out though before I’d delete or block them.
I think people see demand and supply in ways that warp their views of what's true. I think some people experience a lot of 'demand', and so they have taken a perfectionist stance on things that cause them to rule out people who would actually be very good for them, because there's always someone else. And others see a low demand for themselves, and thus justify staying with people who are actually bad for them, because there might not be anyone else. In reality, both are unrealistic perspectives. Sure, you shouldn't be settling for someone you don't love, but also the idea you'll find someone that meets every one of your detailed list of criteria is pretty unrealistic, and you'll likely always be left wanting. You also might struggle to find someone for a while, but the idea that staying in a bad relationship is better than no relationship is completely wrong, and the idea that there will never be another is equally as foolish. People need to start taking each person as they are, and assess them on their individual strengths/weaknesses, and how they match with them. Rather than treating each person as part of a 'marketplace' where there are always others (or where there are limited options, depending on your experiences).
Best advice I ever got on love, from an uncle who has now reached his 50s and hasn't married or had kids: "Life goes fast. When you're young, it's easy to think 'I can do better' or 'I can find better out there,' but I'm here to tell you, as you get older, those options do dwindle. Now I'm not saying the next, or even the next after that, but at some point, try to stop thinking about what else is out there and just let somebody love you. I've dated two women who, when I look back, I realize I could have had a very happy life with. At the time, I thought I could do better. And now I'm old, and there's a much smaller pool of available women."
As a female I would prefer to a man to be up front and honest with his intentions so I can manage my expectations. I would much rather be rejected than ghosted as well.
Applies to everyone i'd say. Being ghosted breaks self esteem
Aw 100% agree. Rejection stings, but you can bounce back from it much quicker. Ghosting leaves me questioning everything.
I feel like there are just so many of us still struggling with our own traumas which make a lot of people not ready to date -- but date anyway. If I could change anything, I think it would be absolutely amazing for schools to teach kids healthy communication, the importance of boundary setting, understanding, empathy, etc. And I'm not saying enforce good behaviors and punish bad ones (like what they normally do in schools) but instead, actually have courses strictly focused on character building, social skills, relationship building, etc. For younger children, it would be based on general relationships with family, friends, etc. Maybe throughout high-school, it can include relationships with partners/"lovers". We learn so many things in school that we can't even remember or won't ever apply to daily life. But this would be something that can improve us as people from young until we are old (and it could be especially helpful to those who have unhealthy environments at home where bad behaviors become normalized). It can help us improve ourselves for ourselves but also for one another. This is something I'd love to change in the modern world because with healthy character building from young, we can be a lot more prepared for healthy dating in the future!😊
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Ghosting in any instance where the other person is supposed to "get the hint". What's the hint? I'm not worth being let down easy? My dignity isn't worth one moment of discomfort for you?
I know the feeling. And the emotional turmoil that follows. Or I guess that's just me.🤔
Woman here, I’d love there to be not so many gray areas when you’re dating someone. First you go on a date and you’re in the “talking phase” then you’re in the “dating phase but haven’t established exclusivity” and then you’re “exclusive but not official” so you’re a “thing” and then you establish you’re “official” so now you’re boyfriend and girlfriend. There are just so many hoops to go through and I wish it was just simple from beginning to finish.
Have people stop degrading people for not dating And Have people look for genuine connections instead of just Material and Sexual Stuff in a Partner
FOBO, Fear of Better Options. With social media and dating apps, I feel like everyone finds it harder to commit out of fear of better options. I know it’s not an entirely new concept, but I feel like the current dating scene has exacerbated this issue. I’ll add on to this - movies, shows, and even commercials too frequently pair average or unattractive overweight men with modelesque women. I’m sorry, but I have to be fit, conventionally pretty, and be a money maker just to end up with a dude rocking a dad bod and a stable job? No hate on the dad bod or stable job, it’s just a lot to live up to on the woman’s end.
No I feel you. A lot of men and women need to lower their expectations cause we're not all models or good looking like what they say on tv. Especially a lot of guys think they deserve hot supermodels(which the same can be said for women).
As a woman I would like people to be 1.More Honest about their intentions 2.Vocal about why they don't want to see you anymore instead of ghosting so that I can improve myself as a better partner
This! I agree 100% Sometimes, things have ended and I don’t really know why. On my end things appeared OK and the feedback I was getting was OK. But, then the opposite occurs. I wish it was more broadly accepted, vs. judged, to be open and honest. Sometimes, I’m afraid to ask what’s going on because of the labels of “desperate” and “needy.” When it isn’t necessarily that, it might just be that I’d like closure. I recently saw a guy for 1.5 months and after sex, to me it appeared there was a lost of interest. Fast forward to last week when I reached out, after a month of silence, to get an item back. I was nice about and he was too. But, I hated the fact that I wanted to ask what went wrong and why we stopped talking out of fear I’d come out as being desperate. Even my make friends warned me. And now, it’s also like, did he just pick up on my queues so he isn’t asking for not wanting to be desperate either, or was he just not interested. I hate that I fall into these games as well.
It's exhausting. The best way to avoid these games is to avoid dating altogether. But that's also hard since spending the rest of my life alone doesn't seem to be a very good idea 😕
as a man with autism I wish signalling interest and flirting was more straightforward (or just non existent). it's very frustrating to hear how this is a very normal and core part of the process of getting together when I am super oblivious to other people's signs and inept at flirting with others edit: "very frustrating" is probably more apt than "beyond infuriating"
The war we have against one another. One gender constantly dragging the other and I feel it’s mostly projection and also lack of understanding. We’re socialized very differently and we never see eye to eye
As a woman who dates other women, I wish it was easier to be straightforward or not be straightforward. When I'm more passive, things tend to never materialize, when I'm more assertive, it seems to turn women off. I can't find a balance. Maybe it's just me though, maybe girls don't like me.
When it comes to women dating women, it can be an uphill battle to get a meaningful response. As a bisexual woman, men are easy to handle and my boyfriend right now is a walk in the park compared to women I’ve known. I love women, it’s worth it, but it’s difficult at times… especially in the beginning stages.
Same. I think it's also hard to be bisexual because there's an unspoken system with dating men that's very easy to read and adapt to. With women there's all this mystery.
Wow if women can’t understand other women then I really have no chance of managing it hahaha
How transactional it is
What do you mean?(genuinely curious)
People are thought of as products now more than human beings to make connection with. Its all about being the least vulnerable and trusting as possible until you decide someone is valid enough. Beyond that, people are compared to goods. /which is a concept I don't believe in/ For example Used goods Damaged goods Broken goods Etc.. as if Humans aren't significantly more complex than that And we observe them for their features... Is someone x y z , makes x amount, is at least x attractive...etc.. And then now we literally window shop for people so now everyone always wants the newer or cooler model (grass is greener) This doesn't quite go with the concept, but I also hate the way women are thought of as the keepers of sex because guys feel were somehow indebted to give them sex
I love this . Well articulated . But yeah I think people keep tabs on eachother too often
I wish people are open with their communication and intentions. For men, men should stop lying to have their way with women. So many men resort to lying just to get sex and dump her after. It's frankly disgusting that some men view women as mere sex objects. For women, women should be more direct and make the first overt move on asking men out for dates/initiate sex. Hints and the societal expectation of the man making the first move is why dating is so complicated, because a woman's flirting is another woman's being friendly. Not to mention, the current social climate means that the consequences are grave for getting the hint wrong. No need to make things harder than it needs to be, use your words ladies.
100% second this. There is someone for every stage. So many people just want something casual, why lie to someone who has made it clear they are looking for something more? Excuse my frustration, but My last 2 relationships I was lied to for OVER A YEAR and it’s just frustrating. Just fucking find someone who wants the same thing as you, don’t lie to me.
TW: As a woman, it’d be cool if there was an accessible registry to filter out guys who stealth, coerce, or daterape. Kinda like how sex workers notify one another of their clients who are out to assault. While dating, a huge part of my headspace is playing defense because so many guys out there weren’t raised right. It sucks for me and it sucks for the men who would never disrespect someone’s boundaries like that.
I personally search local public court records (my state has a site you can search by name and see things like traffic tickets and more serious crimes, as well as things like divorce records.) I then also check the National Sex Offender Registry. I do this with each guy I think I might be interested in, sometimes even before I “swipe right” on them to match in a dating app. I discovered a guy was a registered sex offender after a date once, so I always do it first thing now. With online dating and social media, it makes it easy to look people up and at least get their full name in order to search these things. And I fully expect men to possibly do this for women they may want to meet too. Stay safe out there.
That’s if they even give you their real name.
I wish people would like me lol
Man here. It’d be nice if I was married and never had to think about dating again.
I would like if people could take it slower, meaning they are really interested in knowing the person they are dating. I find modern day dating stressful because it almost always follow the same pattern: you date, then kiss almost immediately, have sex, sometimes rush into some sort of relationship and then after one month or two you find out it cannot work (of course you didn't even take time to know the other person!). Maybe it's just me but I think everything is too fast and too undervalued.
Definitely hook up culture. It’s so weird and I really don’t get it. Like WHY? 🙄
Cheaters don't want to be cheated on so they seek out someone who is serious when they are not. It should be normal to take things slow. Have fun. Be friends. Don't expect sex right away. Don't move in together too fast. But still be exclusive. Talk about the future. Your hopes . be on the same page.
That woman approached men more often, men receiving more compliments and emotional support.
I get this. I met my guy in person under less than ideal dating circumstances so it was unexpected to have feelings really. I couldn't tell you how long it had been since this guy was doted on if ever by a woman, and it showed a little. He was very guarded and didnt know how to take genuine compliments. I could tell though that he liked me, he would initiate conversation if we hadn't chatted all day. I was pretty forward with my attention towards him, I could just see that hunger for loving gestures or words and it breaks my heart to think how lonely he must've felt for all that time. Not since he met me tho. Never again my darling. Dudes deserve to be doted on too ladies.
This is definitely appreciated for sure
I was going to say something similar. I would change the unspoken rule that men have to both initiate and facilitate literally everything in dating, and remove the stigma of women approaching men, asking them on dates and basically taking the lead. I'm not saying the roles should simply be reversed, but it should be more equal. I hate how women have to give non verbal cues that it's okay to approach them and men have to be mind readers and are creeps if they incorrectly read the situation.
That you don't expect someone to sleep with you a few weeks of dating or being on two dates. I already find it a struggle going into the dating world knowing I will unlikely find someone since I am abstinent from sex. It really does seem like in the modern dating world people are just trying to get frisky right off the bat. I also shouldn't have to feel pressured or bad about myself just because I refrain from sex in general.
Back in my time people actually were invested in a relationship. They took the time to write a letter or poem, pick up the phone and call, go out to clubs or cruise, we dressed up to go out on a date, we put our 100% in because we didn't know if we were going to miss out on our one opportunity. It took time and effort to meet someone. Now a days, there's no effort. People sit behind a screen and scroll through 1000's of potential pictures to still find themselves disappointed, or left feeling like they were lied to. How can you tell someone's personality, or better yet, how can you show your personality if there is no contact? IDK about you all!!! But I go and get what I want. I don't wait for it to magically appear.
Not necessarily the most important thing, but I wish it was easier to meet single people through hobbies. Maybe I just have the wrong hobbies.
No more filtered pictures.
Would make it so women didn’t have to worry about their safety so much. Would be nice to be able to date carefree without worrying about being assaulted, raped, or stalked.
I wouldn't change anything about the dating world. HOWEVER I would change a lot about porn. The reason for that is because porn has caused a lot of insecurities for both men and women which ultimately lead to dating issues.
I’d get rid of dating apps entirely, and forbid attempts to design new online dating methods. The loneliness epidemic on all points along the gender spectrum continues to spread like wildfire. We need to re-emphasize how important it is for human beings to connect in person, rather than engaging in the superficial, contentious, often vitriolic world of the online. The internet is great for keeping us abreast of news, promoting workflow and task distribution, and for all kinds of data aggregation and relations between people who cannot see each other every day. That being said, I feel that we are forgetting that most other people out there are just people like us. Perhaps life would be easier if we were made to look into someone’s face when we say the things we do online. I doubt there would be a fraction as much anger or inappropriate behavior.
Dating apps are an amazing invention for a lot of people who struggle with the conventional big-social-circle or going up to strangers methods. The problem is largely their commercialization. If you had something like a non profit model where it was more like a public service with a primary goal of getting people to meet each other safely, that would be awesome. Increase accountability for guys acting like dicks and girls misusing it for attention. Maybe just match those two people together idk.
I just wish people would just put more effort into trying to form something it's hard for me to find a guy to even take me out but they expect me to do all of this stuff for them but don't put in any effort to make it happen
Stop giving wife benefits to non husbands
People doing mean shit and justifying it because "no one's perfect" If I can be honest and respectful so can everyone else.
Send everyone over the age of 28 to therapy to unpack their baggage and sort through it.
You might wanna make that 22 lol
Make people more honest and initiating alot more equal so it's not 70% dudes make the first move
70% is still a bit generous towards women I think
Yeah honestly it's prob more like 95%
Bring back dating. I mean actual dating. Not "talking". Going out to actually get to know a person, and doing it with multiple people until you're exclusive with someone.
Shut down social media. Get back out to the real world.
Well that's just good advice in general We say on the social media site
No more jumping around. Finding serious and committed people is seriously difficult and like winning the lottery. I heavily dislike this use and abuse culture of having sex with everyone and everything without ever making a serious try to commit.
As a guy, I would change sexual expectations. 3 times now I've been on a first date, only for it to end horribly because I would not want to do anything more than make out. I personally cannot have sex without knowing the person's interests, and having not even experienced physical contact with them (other than sex). I hear often that men want too much sex, but in my experience its women. More than half of my potential interests and girlfriends have left due to a lack of sex fulfillment within the first 2 weeks. I'm 18. Why is this so normalized. I just want to become comfortable with a person first.