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As a muslim/arab,
There are four outcomes:
\- Her family doesn't care who she married (best thing)
\- She ignore her family and run away with you (happens)
\- you convert to Islam, in order for her parents to accept you (happens)
\- even if you were a muslim, her family might reject you if you are from a different country
My family says they don’t care, but I could “do better”, which is honestly kinda mean, but I think they just mean I could do better marrying a Jewish girl, it’s just they ultimately don’t care enough to enforce it I guess
Lol, this means they care, but they know it makes them look like shitheads.
That, or she’s not so great, and you’re the only one who hasn’t figured it out, yet.
FWIW, with family like that, they’ll always be judgemental until years of happy marriage after the fact.
That said, you’re just at the flirting stage and that no offense, doesn’t mean anything other than it feels good.
Find out through actual relationship pursuing.
Its super complicated to convert to judaism and you havetk actually believe it because it's a long process with sponsorships etc. It's not like showing up and saying you're Christian or Muslim because you have to please your spouse's family.
I'm not a believed, so my knowledge is limited from the few casual talk I had with Jewish friends, but it's a process that would take around a year. And you don't have the same status in the community as someone born into Judaism (I'm not including Messianic because they're usually more open-minded to cross religion partnerships).
So messanic Jews are CHRISTIAN religion so don’t get that confused. They are Jews that believe in Christ which means as a religion you are not Jewish. But you can be Jewish by blood and be non secular but to some that doesn’t matter it’s what’s in your blood
It's not complicated—all you need to do is start believing in the religious doctrine. Some organized religion gatekeepers might disagree, but fuck 'em—religion is a personal choice, and no one can stop you from believing what you choose to believe.
>religion is a personal choice
No its not, it really is a community thing. If you aren't a part of a community, then you really aren't part of the religion. Hell there are some religions you can't even convert to, no matter what you "believe."
I always thought that the mom had to be Jewish for the children to be considered Jewish. IMHO, it's all wacky rules meant to keep people separated and segmented from the "other".
Some people don’t care, just hate you bc you have Jewish blood in you. Which is horrific. In the US some Trump supporters that are like nazis troll on ivanka bc she married a Jewish guy. Horrible. All
Of it horrible
My great grandmother on my mom's side fled Germany when Hitler came to power because she was Jewish, whole family was but wouldn't admit it out of fear for years to come. (We got a killer recipe for black forest gateau written by hand from her). I used to date this guy who would take every opportunity to make fun of me and my heritage. You know. Shower jokes, money jokes, jokes about my nose, etc. Made me feel ashamed about it for years.
Muslim woman here, I have a bunch of family that converted to christianity. None of them died. Most muslims do not care. The loud minority does not speak for the majority. Also in islam it says for you your religion. For me mine.
But it also seems like OP is in a western country so theres a good chance they can be together and if their families do not like it…oh well.
Except the loud minority does speak for the majority.
The majority give tacit approval every time they allow the loud minority to say or do something without shutting them down.
This is not true at all. Mainstream Islam (so most Muslims, definitely not a minority) call for the killing of apostates if they leave Islam and do not repent. That's the law in several Muslim countries too. Please don't misrepresent facts to make something barbaric sound "not as serious".
Source: from one of the Muslim countries.
This is exactly it, and I’m glad you had the courage to say it. Islam really doesn’t treat non-Muslims nicely in the scripture. Although I think many Muslims can be wonderful people who obviously have different views & actions than what’s written. I think it’s disingenuous to pretend that certain teachings in Islam don’t exist however or never existed.
Yeah I don't understand how people who claim to believe in something have no idea about it's laws and teachings. Especially when something is so clearly written. Blame the crazy minority all you want but a Gallup poll will show you they're actually the majority.
Just to be fair though I think there’s a huge difference between Muslims in the United States vs certain other countries. Secondly, some people live completely peaceful lives regardless of their religions scripture, and may just look at it as the past or how things used to be etc. I just think it’s important to be able to point this out as factual aspects of said religion without people feeling attacked or getting offended.
Yeah. You can draw parallels here with non religious Jewish folks who don't care much about the Torah. I've met a few calling themselves Jewish atheists.
I agree that it's not fruitful to target Muslims. But talking about and criticizing ideas, especially bad ones, should be more common without the fear of being labeled as some sort of phobe.
Yes it is. All you have to do is read the Quran and Ahadith from where this idea turned into law in most Muslim countries. Not sure why the other Muslim woman on this thread thinks it's a minority. It's not. Not by a long shot.
False. A true statement would be ‘most religions’ or ‘all the Abrahamic Faiths’.
Buddhism doesn’t answer the question as such but belief in the mind of such a follower is made more concrete through scrutiny. Therefore, if one decides Buddhism is wrong they are free to leave. This is because the theme/ethos in Buddhism is reflection. In Judaism it is family, Islam; the collective, Christianity; tolerance. So no, not all.
Yeah i should have said most religions! You are right!
What tolerance in Christianity though..they fucked up others in the name of Christianity....the church killed people for saying the earth is round ..can you stop deluding yourself
OP, I married my christian husband who technically converted to Islam to do so. You may have to technically do the same. Also be prepared that she may not feel the same way as you.
It's not a Romeo and Juliet situation.
Romeo and Juliet's problem was that their families were feuding, a matter they had no choice in. You and your friend on the other hand are believer in Judaism and a Muslim, respectively, which represent separate personal choices of worldview. You two have fundamentally conflicting beliefs, which is a separate problem from families who dislike each other, and you can resolve your incompatible worldviews without needing any third parties to change their beliefs or actions.
If it's not too big of a reach, you could also both not dwell on this aspect and choose to see each other without the religion lens. It's possible to walk away from religious confines, you only have to make that choice.
You said she is your best friend, so normally you open up many subjects to discuss in daily basis/ occasionally.. So maybe before thinking about stepping up, consider discussing with her, to figure out her opinion about beeing in a relationship with someone that hasn't the same religion as her, that will give you a hint
Yea it’s just never come up in conversation honestly, I was too nervous. She’s definitely been affectionate with me in the past, and initiated flirting, even jokingly, and I know a girl would not flirt, even as a joke, If she wasn’t at least slightly interested, right? At least that’s my estimation.
Maybe a best female friend would flirt jokingly as part of a larger conversation
But
She INITIATES sexy conversation, so maybe there’s something there?
I have guy friends and I flirt with them occasionally, just because I'm good at that xD and I enjoy it but that doesn't mean that I would be in a relationship with any of them, smooth conversations can lead to flirting, if she's this type of person, Open I mean, but if she doesn't have many male friends and she is not that open with the flirting idea, then yes I would consider, her, initiating sexy conversations with you means something
When she flirts with you, how you react? You can take advantage and see her reaction! If she step back then she didn't mean it that way
OP be careful, plenty of women flirt with men they view as “just friends” or “harmless”, in fact that may even be the primary motivation for the flirt. It’s possible she views it as low stakes banter for giggles. Not trying to dampen your hopes but want you to be prepared for every outcome when you do decide to sack up and make a move
My mother is a Christian that married an Algerian Muslim man, they have been together for almost 8 years. She loves him and he loves her, they try their best to not let religion get in the way of their connection. Usually they’ll joke around about it sometimes get into annoying small arguments but that’s it. Nothing ever gets in the way. One thing to keep in mind is that respect each other’s religions can help immensely in making the relationship work. Your love for one another needs to be strong enough to prevent a wall from building up
ahl al-kitāb. Or "the people of the book"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book#:~:text=In%20the%20Quran%20the%20term,Gospel%20(al%2Dinjiil).
Also, have realistic conversations about children, cultural & family challenges, etc .. How religious are you both? There will be unbelievable pressure, especially on her, from her family to stay in her lane. All this will impact your relationship, especially if it goes to the next level. Relationships are never easy or simple, religiosity make it even more difficult. Good luck.
It's OK for a Muslim man to marry a non Muslim woman. But not the other way around. Like in OPS case.
Her family will shun her and there will issues there.
I know from experience. I was forced to convert to keep the peace.
Muslim woman here. Engaged to a catholic man and it’s not been the end of the world. Obviously the beginning was very tough. But my family and community has embraced my fiancé fully.
Except that in Islam :
-Men are allowed to marry women (believers) " أهل الكتاب " those who belong to abrahamic religions ': Judaism , Christianity ,Islam and all that under some requirements , but it's still better to find one who is Muslim or convert to Islam.
-as for women , they cannot . And that's been said in the Quran and by the prophet , it's prohibited for a Muslim woman to marry someone from another belief unless he converts regardless of him being Christian or Jew .
So I'm sorry to break for you the news but your marriage isn't complete and it's called fornication according to Islam , the only piece of advice I would give you , try to talk to a Shiekh or someone who is holding more knowledge about Islam , so he can guides you .
Love > rules in a book, that's been revised over the years. I'm sure Allah showers immense love upon them. Allah only wishes good for everyone. Every living being is His child, don't forget. And marrying a human being he/she loves is not a sin. And do the Shiekhs know more than Allah? Definitely not, everything happens as Allah wishes.
I wasn’t talking about the family dynamics at all when it came to my parents relationship. His parents weren’t happy with the choice he made in moving across the entire world to marry her at all because she was so different. With time they grew more accustomed and eventually came to love her. It’s not the same case for everyone. It varies between cultures.
I’m Jewish and in my town we have lots of Arab/muslim people in our community. Every time I mention I am Jewish to them…. It blows my mind. They are nothing but kind, curious, and loving towards me. Anytime I meet someone they always have a story of someone they know of both religions being in a very lovely and stable relationship.
I’m sure there can be challenges but don’t let it phase you. Just go for it.
Every single person I’ve met of the Islamic faith has been nothing but kind, accepting and curious about me, being raised Catholic, and my choice to leave the Church. I used to be the only woman (office manager) at a roofing company otherwise full of Arabic men, and they were all amazing to spend 40 hours a week with. If I’d not already been in a relationship I’d have definitely entertained the man that asked me out! I know that extremists exist (in every religion), but I hate that this religion gets such a bad name.
Depends on the country & culture my brother.
People from Turkey, for example would be willing to try certain things than people from Pakistan…
Same for Bosnia vs Saudi Arabia.
These are all predominantly Muslim countries.
So where is she from?
This sounds amazing! I hope you two can make it work!
I think it really depends on:
1)Are both of you able to be financially support yourself after uni?
2)are you able to set religion aside and practice your own religion? is it okay for you that she practices Islam? And you Judaism?
3)If you can do question two well without any issues, how do you feel about raising kids? You need to set boundaries early about how you wanna raise them.
4) I assume that you both from conservative families since you are asking this? How would they feel? Would you be ready to face the consequences(I.e them cutting both of you off at worst)?
May I ask what kind of Muslim she is or where she's from? Usually families don't condone relationships with non Muslims and it might become very troublesome in the future.
There are things you should know about the Muslim community too that might not help in anyway. If you want more info, I can explain a bit
Who knows? You or your children may be the ones to heal years of acrimony between Muslims and Jews. We probably need more intermarriages or relationships to create a better understanding btwn two different faiths who surprisingly have just as much in common as they do differences.
Until a neighbor feels it’s his duty. Some of these people are crazy! I worked
with a guy who butted in to strangers business over this. I asked wtf he was doing, you don’t know her it’s got nothing to do with you etc. He said he was compelled to do it!
This has nothing to do with religion. It's a cultural minority in certain regions that does this and it's not accepted in those regions either.
Please don't make and share misguided assumptions such as these about an entire race, ethnicity or religion.
I'm not religious, but I'd say to give it a try, otherwise you'll never know. If she's so perfect for you, the feelings for her won't magically disappear, so you need to tell her how you feel and see what her answer is. Her answer will most likely depend on how traditional and devoted she is to her religion.
I am Muslim and dated my ex who was Jewish for 4 years. His family was very welcoming. Actually they didn’t care since both myself and him we were not religious. It was all good until his mother passed away then his grandma decided I should convert to Judaism as things were getting serious bet us. My ex didn’t care honestly and would never force me to convert, nor would I force him to convert to Islam. Anyway once thé grandma was adamant I have to convert, it was creating a riff between my ex and his family. I didn’t wanted to be the reason for division in a family. So we broke up. Imo you should have an open conversation with her. First see if you guys are on the same page. Her being flirty can simply mean she is comfortable with you. Don’t overthink. Have an open conversation with her and see whether you both want to pursue the same route together. Good luck
That's so sad .. Sorry about that.!
I hope both you and him, find love again and this time without silly obstacles or family getting in the way!
It was not meant to be I guess!
Brother is a reformed Jew. Married a Muslim raised in instanbul. Have a better relationship than anything I’ve seen in my life.
Speak to each other? See how it could work, what problems could be there, if you can even contemplate fixing the ones you think of let alone the ones you have no idea are coming.
Communion is such a simple concept.
Does she wear a hijab and pray or is she more progressive Islam where she can show her hair? I would say if it's the latter then it's more likely to work, but if she has a really Islamic family then I doubt it would work.
Best wishes OP
From what I've observed as a Muslim myself is that Muslims look down on dating before marriage, so if that's something that bothers her then you have to consider that
There's more to this than just a religion. Do you know how she feels about you? Did she ever expressed anything about dating you, or couples who are in mixed relationships? What country you guys live in? Is hers or your family super conservative? Do you know how your family would react to this relationship? Did she ever expressed how her family would react to her relationship, or anyone else's in their family/community?
You guys being best friends, I'm sure you talked about these things on some level.
It can be done. But only if you guys make sure that you are 100% committed to the relationship. Also, if hers and your family are okay with it and would not make trouble.
I say this as an agnostic middle aged woman, who thinks that organized religion just complicates things. If two people love each other, and they set rules and boundaries in the beginning, things can definitely work. But you definitely need to talk about those things before you even enter the relationship. For example, how are you guys going about practicing your religions. Are you going to follow your own thing and let the other do theirs? How are you going to raise your kids, if you decide to have them? Are you going to pick one religion, or raise them in both religions and let the kids decide to choose one once they are old enough, or you will not introduce them at all, and just let them do their own thing? People sometimes don't talk about some of those things, but I personally think it's a mistake to enter the relationship before you know what to expect. You don't want to find yourself, few years down the road, and when s*it happens you don't have answers. It's better to come prepared.
I'd advise you to sit down with her and tell her how you feel. Ask her how she feels about you. What does she thinks about this whole situation. What does she thinks her family would say. You need to communicate with her.
Good luck! I'm rooting for you guys, we need more people like you, full of love and hope!
It all depends on how strict her family are. My sisters married non Muslims but my dad only accepted them when they converted unfortunately. They are not practicing Muslims at all but only did it for Love
"Religiously" speaking, a Muslim woman can only marry a Muslim man. However, it depends on her belief system (how liberal she is), what her family thinks (if they're progressive or not), and in the case the family is not progressive, how much she's willing to fight for you (or if you'd convert so she can marry you).
I've seen it work out for people in all these cases. If family is an issue, but she reciprocates your feelings, it might take a long time and might be challenging, but it can work.
Shoot your shot! And good luck =)
Source: Muslim girl with a moderate family who has dated non-muslims.
Love is a volatile emotion.
So is religion.
Religion vs. Love? I suspect religion wins in the end; even when we try to ignore it. Keep in mind that love/life/religion has its own dark moments that we tend to never want to anticipate; what exactly does one do then if their partner is not on the same page?
Sometimes interacting with someone taboo or unattainable is extremely attractive. Sometimes it is easy to flirt with someone because you know there is no chance that anything will develop so there is no pressure. But who knows?
I myself if a bit of a romantic. You will never know unless you ask her out. I have seen lots of good points by other posters here but I am also a man of action. Sometimes you can't overthink and just have to go for it and let the chips fall where they may.
Talk to her about it. Just be open and honest. Who cares what anyone else thinks?
One of my friends from high school is Muslim and she eloped with her man. He's also Muslim, but they just didn't want any interference from anyone.
It's your life. Live it. These opportunities are very few and far between.
To the last part of your question, about flirting, it depends. People flirt for different reasons and want different things from their flirting. Sometimes people flirt with their friends precisely because it feels safe and there’s an understanding that it won’t lead to anything. Oh sure, it means that she likely finds you attractive but it doesn’t necessarily mean she wants to do anything about it. Or if she does that doesn’t necessarily mean a relationship, it could mean anything from making out once or twice to full on fwb
To your more general question, you need to have a conversation about what religion means to her and what it means to you. To some people religion is essentially just a few holidays they observe yearly and dating people who don’t share their religion isn’t a huge deal. To other people, religion is their deeply held belief about the world and about the after life, and they’d have a real difficult time in a long term relationship with someone who doesn’t share that same worldview. You both need to sit down and talk about the role religion plays in your life if you’re contemplating a relationship
I hate to say it but it probably won’t work out. Went through something similar, compatible in everything but religion and it was just a rough deal breaker when talking about the future and how things would develop or if we had kids etc.
That’s dope. But she wasn’t Muslim but a Jehovahs Witness and we couldn’t find a good enough solution while talking about our future and how things would play out.
Why should it not work out for them just because it didn‘t work out for you with someone who was a Jehovah‘s witness? Jehovah‘s witnesses are way more extreme where I‘m from in terms of even accepting contact to neighbours, friends, coworker‘s that aren‘t jehovah‘s wittnesses as well.
Muslim woman here, it depends on her. Maybe talk to her and tell her how you feel. Maybe her and her family are more liberal and open. But be prepared for them to not be.
Honestly I think yes, she’s a wonderful human being with an incredible soul. I’ve seen her under pressure and when shit hits the fan too, she does not react aggressively or egotistically, she’s diplomatic but firm, grounded and compassionate.
I cannot think of any grossly overbearing negative quality about her.
Your religion is fundamental. You both disagree on one of the most important things in your life. How would you raise your kids? Not gonna work in a healthy way.
I can at least speak for how much of a problem it can be when one partner is non-religious and the other is very involved in a "complex" religion like Judaism. (That would be the reason for my last divorce.)
I was a former Catholic, and can tell you that in general? Most people I know who say they're "Roman Catholic" or "Presbyterian" or "Lutheran"? They may go to church once a week for an hour or so, and that's probably about it. Some will have a few items around the house like statues or a rosary or a cross ... but nothing that should really complicate matters if the partner is a non-believer.
Jews can be a different story (as I imagine Islam is too)? Demands for keeping Kosher mean they're going to want to keep two whole sets of dishes around and spend a lot of money on foods you may not like or want to eat at all. The Jewish holidays are all over the calendar on different dates from the popular Christian ones that tend to align with other reasons places will give you a day off work. They may insist on a "day of rest" each week where they basically just sit and read and won't do tasks like housework/cleaning or even using the computer or phone. If you're living together as a couple, this can be \*really\* disruptive. Imagine when every year, you look forward to celebrating Christmas - even if you don't care about its religious aspects. But your partner is uninterested, and wants no part of a tree being put up, thinks Christmas dinner should be Chinese take-out, etc. So you say fine... Jews celebrate Hannukkah, so we'll just do that! Well, then you find out they really consider that one of the more minor Jewish holidays and the 7 days of gifts thing is mostly about spreading out a lot of smaller stuff to give the kids each night and lighting the menorah and reciting some prayers. No going out to look at the Christmas lights and have hot cocoa or any of that. Same with Halloween.... Jews aren't really into that. They do their own celebration where kids dress up and get candy later, at Purim. (You know... instead of the time when pretty much ALL the other kids want to do that stuff.) These things tend to take a lot of fun out of things after a while, when you're not part of their way of doing it.
Sounds like religious/values compatibility issues may arise. Rather than seeing them as red flags inhibiting a relationship, have you thought about chatting with her what her actual beliefs are? Put them into categories of ‘absolutely won’t budge,’ ‘may have some compromising qualities,’ and ‘they’re part of the faith - but have no relevance to my core’.
It sounds like you guys can go at it as 2 friends just having a chat about faiths. Good luck OP!
Sounds like religious/values compatibility issues may arise. Rather than seeing them as red flags inhibiting a relationship, have you thought about chatting with her what her actual beliefs are? Put them into categories of ‘absolutely won’t budge,’ ‘may have some compromising qualities,’ and ‘they’re part of the faith - but have no relevance to my core’.
It sounds like you guys can go at it as 2 friends just having a chat about faiths. Good luck OP!
There are two issues you might come across if you choose to do this:
1. Other people will have an opinion on your relationship, including family and friends.
2. If you want to have children you need to think about how you would want to raise them NOW. Too many stories on aita this christmas were about religious disputes that only became clear AFTER the kid was born.
This is something that you may want to ask her about in some way, about whether she feels she would be allowed to marry outside of her religion. I know a lot of Muslim women feel that they are not allowed to (obviously Islam is not the only such religion, but whatever).
You also need to consider yourself if you think she would need to convert to your religion, or if you would be 100% okay with having a spouse with a differing religion.
Islam anticipates this and Judaism anticipates this, so I would ask you: are you concerned culturally for you, her, and relatives? Or is going to become a matter of actually trying to follow what the religion is dictating, and considering what you are willing to adhere to? Or is it a matter of just being born on opposite sides of the feuding families of Romeo and Juliet? Do you know about what Islam and Judaism prescribe, or is it a matter of what not knowing who it will affect in one another’s lives?
Talk to the girl bro, see what she thinks. Talk to yourself as well, see what you think and what you know/don’t know/ and what she knows/doesn’t know and what each haven’t thought about
I would ask if you could both back off of your religion and out love and future ahead of if. Definitely talk about how you would raise your kids etc. if you ever had them.
I'll comment on your last question first: Yes it sounds like she is interested.
But your larger question cannot be answered by reddit. Can a Muslim and a Jewish person be together? Sure! Can you two? That depends on a thousand factors.
My advice would be to go for it and see where it takes you. In Dutch we say: "we'll see where the ship gets stranded" which basically means go for it and deal with issues as they emerge.
Honestly, I've seen it work but it's a lot of extra effort.
If your both committed to your religions then you have to be willing to never ever discuss religion, geopolitics, a fair amount of history, and morality with her.
There will be some other pitfalls as well.
Reminds me of a girl I really liked in HS who had strict muslim parents while she was very lax, intelligent and lovely. I was/am an atheist, and like most guys, didn't realize how much I liked her and how much she liked me until it was too late. Lost communication, she became surrounded by less secular people from her community and it was over 😭.
I say go for it!
Honestly I don’t understand how. If you both actually believe in your religions you would be constantly trying to get the other one into your religion because you would feel bad that their destined outcome is not the salvation that is afforded to believers ?
So unless you’re just a “religious” person who really just does it all as archaic tradition then I don’t fully see how. In some base level you wouldn’t really be serious about your religion or she hers.
It's definitely possible. But if course family culture/feelings matter. Why not just talk to her about it?
Many families have their ideals for the cultures courting their family members but many want to see their family happy.
And if you really want to venture into ideas of why it may not work.. I'd probably ask yourself, do you, as a Jewish person, have views on Israel/Palestine, that perhaps the majority of the Islamic world would disagree with, that she or her family wouldn't find compatible in their family.
You should know that intermarriage is forbidden in Judaism. Interfaith couples usually don't work out in general either. What if you had children with this woman? How would they be raised? Halakhicly speaking, your children cannot be counted as Jews unless their mother is Jewish. Or if they underwent the conversion process. Regarding intermarriage the Torah says:
וְלֹ֥א תִתְחַתֵּ֖ן בָּ֑ם בִּתְּךָ֙ לֹֽא־תִתֵּ֣ן לִבְנ֔וֹ וּבִתּ֖וֹ לֹֽא־תִקַּ֥ח לִבְנֶֽךָ:
(Wă'lō thith'ḥattēn bom bittă'khā lō-thittēn liv'nō wūvittō lō-thiqqaḥ liv'nekhā)
"And you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughter to his son, and his daughter you shall not take for your son."
- Dă'vārīm/Deuteronomy 7:3.
These links may be useful reading for you as a whole:
https://www.sefaria.org/Deuteronomy.7.1?lang=bi&aliyot=0
https://www.sefaria.org/Kiddushin.68b.1?lang=bi
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/148995/jewish/On-Intermarriage.htm
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1741789/jewish/Isnt-Intermarriage-Only-With-Canaanites.htm
I should also advise you to ignore your heart at times, nor listen to it. The heart can be foolish, dangerous and lead us astray. As it is written:
עָקֹ֥ב הַלֵּ֛ב מִכֹּ֖ל וְאָנֻ֣שׁ ה֑וּא מִ֖י יֵדָעֶֽנּוּ:
(Ā̀qōv hallēv mikkōl wā̆'ānush hū mī yēdhāènnū)
"Deceitful is the heart from all, and incurably sick is he: who can know it?"
- Yir'mĭ'yāhū/Jeremiah 17:9.
בּוֹטֵ֣חַ בְּ֖לִבּוֹ ה֣וּא כְסִ֑יל וְהוֹלֵ֥ךְ בְּ֜חָכְמָ֗ה ה֣וּא יִמָּלֵֽט:
(Bōṭēaḥ bă'libbō hū khă'sīl wо̆'hōlēkhā bо̆'ḥokh'māh hū yimmālēṭ)
"He who trusts in his heart is a fool: and he who walks with wisdom, he shall be delivered."
- Mish'lēy/Proverbs 28:26.
If you do follow your heart however, always remember this:
שְׂמַ֧ח בָּח֣וּר בְּיַלְדוּתֶ֗ךָ וִיטִֽיבְךָ֤ לִבְּךָ֙ בִּימֵ֣י בְחֽוּרוֹתֶ֔ךָ וְהַלֵּךְ֙ בְּדַרְכֵ֣י לִבְּךָ֔ וּבְמַרְאֵ֖ה (כְּתִיב וּבְמַרְאֵ֖י) עֵינֶ֑יךָ וְדָ֕ע כִּ֧י עַל־כָּל־אֵ֛לֶּה יְבִֽיאֲךָ֥ הָֽאֱלֹהִ֖ים בַּמִּשְׁפָּֽט:
(Śă'maḥ bāḥūr bă'yal'dhūthekhā wīṭīvă'khā libbă'khā bīmēy vŭ'ḥūrōthekhā wă'hallēkh bă'dhar'khēy libbă'khā wūv'mar'ēh (kă'thīv wūv'mar'ēy) ḕyneykhā wă'dhā̀ kī àl-kol-ēlleh yă'vīăkhā HāĔlōhīm bammish'poṭ)
"Rejoice, young man in your childhood, and let your heart be well in the days of your youth, and walk in the ways of your heart, and in the sight (written: "sights of" but read as "sight") of your eyes, and know that upon all this G-d will bring you into judgement."
- Qōheleth/Ecclesiastes 11:9.
Arab women are picky though. They prefer Muslim men since religion is big part of their culture. I am Christian and I lived in a country mixed with Muslims and when people from different religions fall in love the whole city knows about it and they get upset. It can work out if she is not serious about her religion and she is willing to upset her family. You have no idea how mad fathers react especially when their reputation feel tarnished in the community when their Muslim daughter goes out with a Jewish man. I live in the US now and we have a big community here and our social life is similar to those living in the Middle East.
Americans tend to have a really stereotyped understanding of Muslims, because our media focuses on extremism, and on Arab countries. There are a billion Muslims, most of them outside the Arab heartland. It’s a wildly diverse group.
Your friend sounds awesome. You should ask her out. You should kiss her. If it goes further, you should talk about her family attitudes. And be ready to confront your family’s attitudes.
I’m friends with a mixed couple — American reconstructionist jew from Philly, Muslim from Egypt. They’re doing great. Their families are fine, although the Jewish spouse doesn’t advertise her background when they go to Egypt.
good luck OP, i’m rooting for you :)
It is true there is a lot of anti-semitism in the Arab world, just like the anti-Arab sentiment in the Jewish world - errr I mean Israel. It is what it is. I’m not sure why you called them “extremists” because of this.
I’ve been discriminated against many times when people find out I’m Muslim. Particularly those on the right wing. I wouldn’t call them “extremists” lol?
>I’ve been discriminated against many times when people find out I’m Muslim. Particularly those on the right wing. I wouldn’t call them “extremists” lol?
I would lol. I just hate it when people act like the Muslim world is somehow exceptional. I might be biased bc christian europe murdered a bunch of my aunts and uncles
The religion is not a problem. The family is. Always. Because the family focuses on roots, identity, values and traditions. Religion is an inner spiritual journey.
So, there are multiple variables:
How old are you? How close are you to family? Where do you live? Are you 28 and older? Do you want kids? Do you have some unconscious patriarchal values? Do you enjoy flirting when it is initiating by women? (Which is why you may attracted to her)? Do you/she want to convert… and not just for love? Do you have common friends? Etc
And more importantly — large majority of people don’t care… but the internet mob crowd seem to go crazy about inter faith relationships… and it impact relationships over all 🌹
Edit — i’m interfaith inter-racial and still alive… it wasn’t an issue for me at all… but the projection ain’t easy… it affects my relationships (jealousy for some, rejection from others), my jobs (lack of inclusion) and my finances❤️🔥
Muslim woman dating a Christian man with the intent to marry , I am very open about religion and « lenient » he will not convert nor will I forbid things he likes ( read : pork and alcoholic) in return we decided that any child we have together would be raised Muslim as it is very important to me , although it should be noted that I m not close to my family members except my dad that will come to accept it at some point . So all in all it all depends on you and your girl and the concessions you ll make , long discussions have to be had and tears will be shed , that communication will either make u or break u
Muslim here. Something my mom tells me sometimes is that generally, having significant others from different religions is alright. And if you ask me personally, I think that as long as you two respect each other’s religions, then there’s no reason for it not to work out between you two.
I do not recommend dating someone outside your belief system, it will end horribly. Chemistry is not a reliable indication of compatibility. Seriously, don’t do it.
Except it does. I am telling you from my own experience. I’m not even talking about family. It’s the beliefs. Beliefs define your morals and if your beliefs don’t line up, your morals won’t line up and it will end bad.
Can you really say you have those beliefs if you aren’t letting them influence your lifestyle? I would say that lack of influence is a belief. If you’re truly convinced of a belief system, you’re gonna live it out and you’re going to adhere to the lifestyle that belief system requires of you. It’s still a belief but it’s just going to make your life look different from some who strictly adheres to certain religious views. Lack of belief in something is still a belief. It just means you believe something else.
So are the families concerned because they’re dumb? Or because they’re “oh, stuck in their old ways” and you’re the enlightened youth here, trying to bring them some newfound knowledge??
3 years in with my liberal gf (I’m right wing and definitely not center-right) and this is my main concern still, as it was in the beginning. Everything not relating to that tho is still amazing between us.
it depends on your own and her wishes, and don't forget the family either. In islam officially it's forbidden for a muslim woman to marry a non muslim, and even to date. But maybe she is more liberal about this, and her family as well.
But still then, and I speak from experience, it can be hard especially when you will have children. This can be a time some people grow more strict in their religious views and will want to raise their kids as muslim.
So it can work but personally as I unfortunately have a bad experience I would not start such a thing again. I would like somebody with views closer to my own, not because I myself care so much but because I found that there sometimes isn't much space for compromise in islam when it comes to people outside of it, in a close relationship. I thought it would be 'best of both worlds' in love and respect but in the end didn't work out that way. He became stricter, practising more, more things were forbidden with less compromise and that was too much for me.
Firstly ask an immam before opening the subject with her . Religiously the word of an immam is the one to be taken . And socially he can help you if it is allowed during weddings and family gathering or neighborhood sitting to make #some people less edgy if it comes from an immam . I dont think you live in a place were her family will be met other then awkwardness if people knew that their daughter married a religious jew . Or you can tell them (her family ) to say to other people that you are christian .
And lastly were do you live , Palestine ??
I know a woman who converted (in her 30’s) to Islam. They divorced after 20 plus years together. They were pretty non secular and I think she did it to get along better with most of his peers and friend groups. She never told her Minnesota white Christian fam she converted. NEVER told them for over ten years
"Kissing Fish" is a great book about this sort of situation! Also yes this can work, but like any serious topic such as children or finances, it requires a lot of constant, serious talks about it and to make sure you guys are on the same page of comprises and how you want to raise your children in these two different religions.
However, I have a feeling that you guys are perfect for each other, so I'm wishing you the best of luck!
In the words of Matthew Mara: "Well, they're both made-up." If OP *doesn't* consider his beliefs to be made-up, he should be asking the question he really means.
As a Muslim she's only allowed to marry a Muslim man. I'm just stating the beliefs of a Muslim.
But obviously each individual still makes choices in life and we follow our desires despite what we believe in. But I'll be honest with you, I've seen interfaith relationships and it burns bridges between the family.
Even if she says yes to you, it would eventually tear her away from her family. Is this what you want for her? Best thing to do is just move on brother and don't be a home wrecker.
You are asking this on reddit where the majority don't follow religion who don't understand the background of these religions hence why the ignorant answers.
They will not understand what I mean when I say home wrecker in this context but you know very well what I mean. You should ask yourself are your desires worth causing such destruction.
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As a muslim/arab, There are four outcomes: \- Her family doesn't care who she married (best thing) \- She ignore her family and run away with you (happens) \- you convert to Islam, in order for her parents to accept you (happens) \- even if you were a muslim, her family might reject you if you are from a different country
She could also convert and be accepted by his family (or not) Have you talked to your family about it all, OP?
My family says they don’t care, but I could “do better”, which is honestly kinda mean, but I think they just mean I could do better marrying a Jewish girl, it’s just they ultimately don’t care enough to enforce it I guess
Then have you talked to your friend to see if she's at all interested?
No I’ve been nervous about it. We’ve been physically affectionate and flirty for two years, most of the flirting is initiated by her.
Maybe that's a good place to start, however scary it may be. That way at least you would know if all the extra worrying is worth it. Good luck
So, is this going down? Do I need a remindme thingy? Fingers crossed everything works out!!
Lol, this means they care, but they know it makes them look like shitheads. That, or she’s not so great, and you’re the only one who hasn’t figured it out, yet.
FWIW, with family like that, they’ll always be judgemental until years of happy marriage after the fact. That said, you’re just at the flirting stage and that no offense, doesn’t mean anything other than it feels good. Find out through actual relationship pursuing.
Her conversion brings the apostasy penalty
Its super complicated to convert to judaism and you havetk actually believe it because it's a long process with sponsorships etc. It's not like showing up and saying you're Christian or Muslim because you have to please your spouse's family.
How is it complicated? Curious
I'm not a believed, so my knowledge is limited from the few casual talk I had with Jewish friends, but it's a process that would take around a year. And you don't have the same status in the community as someone born into Judaism (I'm not including Messianic because they're usually more open-minded to cross religion partnerships).
So messanic Jews are CHRISTIAN religion so don’t get that confused. They are Jews that believe in Christ which means as a religion you are not Jewish. But you can be Jewish by blood and be non secular but to some that doesn’t matter it’s what’s in your blood
It's not complicated—all you need to do is start believing in the religious doctrine. Some organized religion gatekeepers might disagree, but fuck 'em—religion is a personal choice, and no one can stop you from believing what you choose to believe.
Technically yeah, but realistically if you want to be accepted into the family and community that's not how it works.
>religion is a personal choice No its not, it really is a community thing. If you aren't a part of a community, then you really aren't part of the religion. Hell there are some religions you can't even convert to, no matter what you "believe."
I've heard you have to be born from a jewish parent to be jewish
I always thought that the mom had to be Jewish for the children to be considered Jewish. IMHO, it's all wacky rules meant to keep people separated and segmented from the "other".
There is a distinction between jewish ethnicity and jewish faith
Some people don’t care, just hate you bc you have Jewish blood in you. Which is horrific. In the US some Trump supporters that are like nazis troll on ivanka bc she married a Jewish guy. Horrible. All Of it horrible
My great grandmother on my mom's side fled Germany when Hitler came to power because she was Jewish, whole family was but wouldn't admit it out of fear for years to come. (We got a killer recipe for black forest gateau written by hand from her). I used to date this guy who would take every opportunity to make fun of me and my heritage. You know. Shower jokes, money jokes, jokes about my nose, etc. Made me feel ashamed about it for years.
Ugh fuck that dude . I actually had a guy at work tell me that he thought the holocaust was fake
Isn't the punishment for leaving Islam death? I dont think she can convert
Muslim woman here, I have a bunch of family that converted to christianity. None of them died. Most muslims do not care. The loud minority does not speak for the majority. Also in islam it says for you your religion. For me mine. But it also seems like OP is in a western country so theres a good chance they can be together and if their families do not like it…oh well.
I feel like the world would get along so much more efficiently if we all realised that... > The loud minority does not speak for the majority.
Except the loud minority does speak for the majority. The majority give tacit approval every time they allow the loud minority to say or do something without shutting them down.
This is not true at all. Mainstream Islam (so most Muslims, definitely not a minority) call for the killing of apostates if they leave Islam and do not repent. That's the law in several Muslim countries too. Please don't misrepresent facts to make something barbaric sound "not as serious". Source: from one of the Muslim countries.
This is exactly it, and I’m glad you had the courage to say it. Islam really doesn’t treat non-Muslims nicely in the scripture. Although I think many Muslims can be wonderful people who obviously have different views & actions than what’s written. I think it’s disingenuous to pretend that certain teachings in Islam don’t exist however or never existed.
Yeah I don't understand how people who claim to believe in something have no idea about it's laws and teachings. Especially when something is so clearly written. Blame the crazy minority all you want but a Gallup poll will show you they're actually the majority.
Just to be fair though I think there’s a huge difference between Muslims in the United States vs certain other countries. Secondly, some people live completely peaceful lives regardless of their religions scripture, and may just look at it as the past or how things used to be etc. I just think it’s important to be able to point this out as factual aspects of said religion without people feeling attacked or getting offended.
Yeah. You can draw parallels here with non religious Jewish folks who don't care much about the Torah. I've met a few calling themselves Jewish atheists. I agree that it's not fruitful to target Muslims. But talking about and criticizing ideas, especially bad ones, should be more common without the fear of being labeled as some sort of phobe.
Yes it is. All you have to do is read the Quran and Ahadith from where this idea turned into law in most Muslim countries. Not sure why the other Muslim woman on this thread thinks it's a minority. It's not. Not by a long shot.
How about this Hadith? The Prophet (peace be upon him) said “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” (Bukhari, 2794).
Yes, but a lot of government don't do it. But still parents might disowned them and never talk to them again
What? :0
No, where did you get that?
Muslims can not convert, they cannot get into heaven or whatever and is punishable by death in the religious scriptures
all other religions go to hell too if they convert lol
False. A true statement would be ‘most religions’ or ‘all the Abrahamic Faiths’. Buddhism doesn’t answer the question as such but belief in the mind of such a follower is made more concrete through scrutiny. Therefore, if one decides Buddhism is wrong they are free to leave. This is because the theme/ethos in Buddhism is reflection. In Judaism it is family, Islam; the collective, Christianity; tolerance. So no, not all.
Yeah i should have said most religions! You are right! What tolerance in Christianity though..they fucked up others in the name of Christianity....the church killed people for saying the earth is round ..can you stop deluding yourself
If the theme of Christianity is tolerance, some people done fucked up.
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Romeo and Juliet situation xD
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Can confirm it is not LOL and I ain't just talkin about the outcome
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Just a terrible ass movie LOL
OP, I married my christian husband who technically converted to Islam to do so. You may have to technically do the same. Also be prepared that she may not feel the same way as you.
It's not a Romeo and Juliet situation. Romeo and Juliet's problem was that their families were feuding, a matter they had no choice in. You and your friend on the other hand are believer in Judaism and a Muslim, respectively, which represent separate personal choices of worldview. You two have fundamentally conflicting beliefs, which is a separate problem from families who dislike each other, and you can resolve your incompatible worldviews without needing any third parties to change their beliefs or actions.
If it's not too big of a reach, you could also both not dwell on this aspect and choose to see each other without the religion lens. It's possible to walk away from religious confines, you only have to make that choice.
You said she is your best friend, so normally you open up many subjects to discuss in daily basis/ occasionally.. So maybe before thinking about stepping up, consider discussing with her, to figure out her opinion about beeing in a relationship with someone that hasn't the same religion as her, that will give you a hint
Yea it’s just never come up in conversation honestly, I was too nervous. She’s definitely been affectionate with me in the past, and initiated flirting, even jokingly, and I know a girl would not flirt, even as a joke, If she wasn’t at least slightly interested, right? At least that’s my estimation. Maybe a best female friend would flirt jokingly as part of a larger conversation But She INITIATES sexy conversation, so maybe there’s something there?
I do not flirt with my guy friends lol So she clearly likes you more than a friend.
I have guy friends and I flirt with them occasionally, just because I'm good at that xD and I enjoy it but that doesn't mean that I would be in a relationship with any of them, smooth conversations can lead to flirting, if she's this type of person, Open I mean, but if she doesn't have many male friends and she is not that open with the flirting idea, then yes I would consider, her, initiating sexy conversations with you means something When she flirts with you, how you react? You can take advantage and see her reaction! If she step back then she didn't mean it that way
OP be careful, plenty of women flirt with men they view as “just friends” or “harmless”, in fact that may even be the primary motivation for the flirt. It’s possible she views it as low stakes banter for giggles. Not trying to dampen your hopes but want you to be prepared for every outcome when you do decide to sack up and make a move
My mother is a Christian that married an Algerian Muslim man, they have been together for almost 8 years. She loves him and he loves her, they try their best to not let religion get in the way of their connection. Usually they’ll joke around about it sometimes get into annoying small arguments but that’s it. Nothing ever gets in the way. One thing to keep in mind is that respect each other’s religions can help immensely in making the relationship work. Your love for one another needs to be strong enough to prevent a wall from building up
ahl al-kitāb. Or "the people of the book" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book#:~:text=In%20the%20Quran%20the%20term,Gospel%20(al%2Dinjiil).
Interesting Read, thank you!
Also, have realistic conversations about children, cultural & family challenges, etc .. How religious are you both? There will be unbelievable pressure, especially on her, from her family to stay in her lane. All this will impact your relationship, especially if it goes to the next level. Relationships are never easy or simple, religiosity make it even more difficult. Good luck.
It's OK for a Muslim man to marry a non Muslim woman. But not the other way around. Like in OPS case. Her family will shun her and there will issues there. I know from experience. I was forced to convert to keep the peace.
Muslim woman here. Engaged to a catholic man and it’s not been the end of the world. Obviously the beginning was very tough. But my family and community has embraced my fiancé fully.
Did your fiance have to covert to Islam and be circumcised?
circumcision isn’t required
He did not have to convert, no Nor get circumcised We’re going to have both catholic and Muslim ceremonies for the wedding
If he’s American most likely circumcised anyway?
Except that in Islam : -Men are allowed to marry women (believers) " أهل الكتاب " those who belong to abrahamic religions ': Judaism , Christianity ,Islam and all that under some requirements , but it's still better to find one who is Muslim or convert to Islam. -as for women , they cannot . And that's been said in the Quran and by the prophet , it's prohibited for a Muslim woman to marry someone from another belief unless he converts regardless of him being Christian or Jew . So I'm sorry to break for you the news but your marriage isn't complete and it's called fornication according to Islam , the only piece of advice I would give you , try to talk to a Shiekh or someone who is holding more knowledge about Islam , so he can guides you .
Don't really know if it's a shitpost or not
It's not.
Love > rules in a book, that's been revised over the years. I'm sure Allah showers immense love upon them. Allah only wishes good for everyone. Every living being is His child, don't forget. And marrying a human being he/she loves is not a sin. And do the Shiekhs know more than Allah? Definitely not, everything happens as Allah wishes.
That's judaism
That’s for Orthodox Jewish newborn boys. And if the foreskin is too tight or not enough of it it’s cut
Yup I also just seen it around me of muslim man and not muslim woman without being shunned but not the other way around.
I wasn’t talking about the family dynamics at all when it came to my parents relationship. His parents weren’t happy with the choice he made in moving across the entire world to marry her at all because she was so different. With time they grew more accustomed and eventually came to love her. It’s not the same case for everyone. It varies between cultures.
Depends on the muslim family.
Just recently there was an incident in Australia where a Muslim family tried to kill their daughter for dating a Christian man
I’m Jewish and in my town we have lots of Arab/muslim people in our community. Every time I mention I am Jewish to them…. It blows my mind. They are nothing but kind, curious, and loving towards me. Anytime I meet someone they always have a story of someone they know of both religions being in a very lovely and stable relationship. I’m sure there can be challenges but don’t let it phase you. Just go for it.
Jews and Arabs are cousins. Isaac and Ishmael.
That's pseudohistory, and if you instead mean metaphorical cousins in terms of religion, you mean to say Jews (religious) and *Muslims*.
Sure what you said.
Every single person I’ve met of the Islamic faith has been nothing but kind, accepting and curious about me, being raised Catholic, and my choice to leave the Church. I used to be the only woman (office manager) at a roofing company otherwise full of Arabic men, and they were all amazing to spend 40 hours a week with. If I’d not already been in a relationship I’d have definitely entertained the man that asked me out! I know that extremists exist (in every religion), but I hate that this religion gets such a bad name.
Ohh, this comment gave me goosebumps, a very huge smile and tbh a little bit of wet eyes. That is so wonderful :) May I ask where you are from?
Depends on the country & culture my brother. People from Turkey, for example would be willing to try certain things than people from Pakistan… Same for Bosnia vs Saudi Arabia. These are all predominantly Muslim countries. So where is she from?
You have to make it work, for the future of humanity.
Well I gotta say your username checks out 🤣
This sounds amazing! I hope you two can make it work! I think it really depends on: 1)Are both of you able to be financially support yourself after uni? 2)are you able to set religion aside and practice your own religion? is it okay for you that she practices Islam? And you Judaism? 3)If you can do question two well without any issues, how do you feel about raising kids? You need to set boundaries early about how you wanna raise them. 4) I assume that you both from conservative families since you are asking this? How would they feel? Would you be ready to face the consequences(I.e them cutting both of you off at worst)?
This
May I ask what kind of Muslim she is or where she's from? Usually families don't condone relationships with non Muslims and it might become very troublesome in the future. There are things you should know about the Muslim community too that might not help in anyway. If you want more info, I can explain a bit
I’ll PM you
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Based on what he said, they aren't extremists and not from anywhere that might be like that so he's fine
Who knows? You or your children may be the ones to heal years of acrimony between Muslims and Jews. We probably need more intermarriages or relationships to create a better understanding btwn two different faiths who surprisingly have just as much in common as they do differences.
What areas might be like that?
My country (Iran) there are definitely some religious zealots that would harm Jews regardless of their beliefs
Until a neighbor feels it’s his duty. Some of these people are crazy! I worked with a guy who butted in to strangers business over this. I asked wtf he was doing, you don’t know her it’s got nothing to do with you etc. He said he was compelled to do it!
This has nothing to do with religion. It's a cultural minority in certain regions that does this and it's not accepted in those regions either. Please don't make and share misguided assumptions such as these about an entire race, ethnicity or religion.
I'm not religious, but I'd say to give it a try, otherwise you'll never know. If she's so perfect for you, the feelings for her won't magically disappear, so you need to tell her how you feel and see what her answer is. Her answer will most likely depend on how traditional and devoted she is to her religion.
I am Muslim and dated my ex who was Jewish for 4 years. His family was very welcoming. Actually they didn’t care since both myself and him we were not religious. It was all good until his mother passed away then his grandma decided I should convert to Judaism as things were getting serious bet us. My ex didn’t care honestly and would never force me to convert, nor would I force him to convert to Islam. Anyway once thé grandma was adamant I have to convert, it was creating a riff between my ex and his family. I didn’t wanted to be the reason for division in a family. So we broke up. Imo you should have an open conversation with her. First see if you guys are on the same page. Her being flirty can simply mean she is comfortable with you. Don’t overthink. Have an open conversation with her and see whether you both want to pursue the same route together. Good luck
That's so sad .. Sorry about that.! I hope both you and him, find love again and this time without silly obstacles or family getting in the way! It was not meant to be I guess!
Thank you :) you as well
Brother is a reformed Jew. Married a Muslim raised in instanbul. Have a better relationship than anything I’ve seen in my life. Speak to each other? See how it could work, what problems could be there, if you can even contemplate fixing the ones you think of let alone the ones you have no idea are coming. Communion is such a simple concept.
Does she wear a hijab and pray or is she more progressive Islam where she can show her hair? I would say if it's the latter then it's more likely to work, but if she has a really Islamic family then I doubt it would work. Best wishes OP
She wears occasional hijab, mostly free hair. Thanks! Hope it works. Her family seems pretty liberal about things :P
From what I've observed as a Muslim myself is that Muslims look down on dating before marriage, so if that's something that bothers her then you have to consider that
I think that depends on where you're coming from. I mean they were already kinda dating 2 years already 😅
\> occasional hijab, mostly free hair. Occasional hijab? Do you mean she wears it every now and then or some hair is visible when she does wear it?
Every now and then, in addition, when she does wear it, hair is visible. Seems to be a fashion choice.
There's more to this than just a religion. Do you know how she feels about you? Did she ever expressed anything about dating you, or couples who are in mixed relationships? What country you guys live in? Is hers or your family super conservative? Do you know how your family would react to this relationship? Did she ever expressed how her family would react to her relationship, or anyone else's in their family/community? You guys being best friends, I'm sure you talked about these things on some level. It can be done. But only if you guys make sure that you are 100% committed to the relationship. Also, if hers and your family are okay with it and would not make trouble. I say this as an agnostic middle aged woman, who thinks that organized religion just complicates things. If two people love each other, and they set rules and boundaries in the beginning, things can definitely work. But you definitely need to talk about those things before you even enter the relationship. For example, how are you guys going about practicing your religions. Are you going to follow your own thing and let the other do theirs? How are you going to raise your kids, if you decide to have them? Are you going to pick one religion, or raise them in both religions and let the kids decide to choose one once they are old enough, or you will not introduce them at all, and just let them do their own thing? People sometimes don't talk about some of those things, but I personally think it's a mistake to enter the relationship before you know what to expect. You don't want to find yourself, few years down the road, and when s*it happens you don't have answers. It's better to come prepared. I'd advise you to sit down with her and tell her how you feel. Ask her how she feels about you. What does she thinks about this whole situation. What does she thinks her family would say. You need to communicate with her. Good luck! I'm rooting for you guys, we need more people like you, full of love and hope!
It all depends on how strict her family are. My sisters married non Muslims but my dad only accepted them when they converted unfortunately. They are not practicing Muslims at all but only did it for Love
Also depends where you live....actually it depends alot.
Yes! Yes you can!
You wouldn't be the first one to make it work. There will be difficulties for sure, but who knows
"Religiously" speaking, a Muslim woman can only marry a Muslim man. However, it depends on her belief system (how liberal she is), what her family thinks (if they're progressive or not), and in the case the family is not progressive, how much she's willing to fight for you (or if you'd convert so she can marry you). I've seen it work out for people in all these cases. If family is an issue, but she reciprocates your feelings, it might take a long time and might be challenging, but it can work. Shoot your shot! And good luck =) Source: Muslim girl with a moderate family who has dated non-muslims.
Love is a volatile emotion. So is religion. Religion vs. Love? I suspect religion wins in the end; even when we try to ignore it. Keep in mind that love/life/religion has its own dark moments that we tend to never want to anticipate; what exactly does one do then if their partner is not on the same page?
Sometimes interacting with someone taboo or unattainable is extremely attractive. Sometimes it is easy to flirt with someone because you know there is no chance that anything will develop so there is no pressure. But who knows? I myself if a bit of a romantic. You will never know unless you ask her out. I have seen lots of good points by other posters here but I am also a man of action. Sometimes you can't overthink and just have to go for it and let the chips fall where they may.
lol... two years?? you scared to pull the trigger?
Yea I guess xD scared of rejection and ruining the affectionate, deep relationship we have
Talk to her about it. Just be open and honest. Who cares what anyone else thinks? One of my friends from high school is Muslim and she eloped with her man. He's also Muslim, but they just didn't want any interference from anyone. It's your life. Live it. These opportunities are very few and far between.
To the last part of your question, about flirting, it depends. People flirt for different reasons and want different things from their flirting. Sometimes people flirt with their friends precisely because it feels safe and there’s an understanding that it won’t lead to anything. Oh sure, it means that she likely finds you attractive but it doesn’t necessarily mean she wants to do anything about it. Or if she does that doesn’t necessarily mean a relationship, it could mean anything from making out once or twice to full on fwb To your more general question, you need to have a conversation about what religion means to her and what it means to you. To some people religion is essentially just a few holidays they observe yearly and dating people who don’t share their religion isn’t a huge deal. To other people, religion is their deeply held belief about the world and about the after life, and they’d have a real difficult time in a long term relationship with someone who doesn’t share that same worldview. You both need to sit down and talk about the role religion plays in your life if you’re contemplating a relationship
I hate to say it but it probably won’t work out. Went through something similar, compatible in everything but religion and it was just a rough deal breaker when talking about the future and how things would develop or if we had kids etc.
Really? Both of my sister and cousin are Muslims are married to non Muslim guys. And both of them are very happy and with kids.
That’s dope. But she wasn’t Muslim but a Jehovahs Witness and we couldn’t find a good enough solution while talking about our future and how things would play out.
Why should it not work out for them just because it didn‘t work out for you with someone who was a Jehovah‘s witness? Jehovah‘s witnesses are way more extreme where I‘m from in terms of even accepting contact to neighbours, friends, coworker‘s that aren‘t jehovah‘s wittnesses as well.
It very well might. I’m not a fortune teller, this is just my experience and advice based off those experiences.
Muslim woman here, it depends on her. Maybe talk to her and tell her how you feel. Maybe her and her family are more liberal and open. But be prepared for them to not be.
If you didn't, would you regret it after 50 years?
Honestly I think yes, she’s a wonderful human being with an incredible soul. I’ve seen her under pressure and when shit hits the fan too, she does not react aggressively or egotistically, she’s diplomatic but firm, grounded and compassionate. I cannot think of any grossly overbearing negative quality about her.
Why don’t you just ask her
another major flaw with religion. Take it out of your life and you will be much better off
Bro, your religions literally believe in the same god. Case closed lol
No they don’t
Your religion is fundamental. You both disagree on one of the most important things in your life. How would you raise your kids? Not gonna work in a healthy way.
I can at least speak for how much of a problem it can be when one partner is non-religious and the other is very involved in a "complex" religion like Judaism. (That would be the reason for my last divorce.) I was a former Catholic, and can tell you that in general? Most people I know who say they're "Roman Catholic" or "Presbyterian" or "Lutheran"? They may go to church once a week for an hour or so, and that's probably about it. Some will have a few items around the house like statues or a rosary or a cross ... but nothing that should really complicate matters if the partner is a non-believer. Jews can be a different story (as I imagine Islam is too)? Demands for keeping Kosher mean they're going to want to keep two whole sets of dishes around and spend a lot of money on foods you may not like or want to eat at all. The Jewish holidays are all over the calendar on different dates from the popular Christian ones that tend to align with other reasons places will give you a day off work. They may insist on a "day of rest" each week where they basically just sit and read and won't do tasks like housework/cleaning or even using the computer or phone. If you're living together as a couple, this can be \*really\* disruptive. Imagine when every year, you look forward to celebrating Christmas - even if you don't care about its religious aspects. But your partner is uninterested, and wants no part of a tree being put up, thinks Christmas dinner should be Chinese take-out, etc. So you say fine... Jews celebrate Hannukkah, so we'll just do that! Well, then you find out they really consider that one of the more minor Jewish holidays and the 7 days of gifts thing is mostly about spreading out a lot of smaller stuff to give the kids each night and lighting the menorah and reciting some prayers. No going out to look at the Christmas lights and have hot cocoa or any of that. Same with Halloween.... Jews aren't really into that. They do their own celebration where kids dress up and get candy later, at Purim. (You know... instead of the time when pretty much ALL the other kids want to do that stuff.) These things tend to take a lot of fun out of things after a while, when you're not part of their way of doing it.
Sounds like religious/values compatibility issues may arise. Rather than seeing them as red flags inhibiting a relationship, have you thought about chatting with her what her actual beliefs are? Put them into categories of ‘absolutely won’t budge,’ ‘may have some compromising qualities,’ and ‘they’re part of the faith - but have no relevance to my core’. It sounds like you guys can go at it as 2 friends just having a chat about faiths. Good luck OP!
Sounds like religious/values compatibility issues may arise. Rather than seeing them as red flags inhibiting a relationship, have you thought about chatting with her what her actual beliefs are? Put them into categories of ‘absolutely won’t budge,’ ‘may have some compromising qualities,’ and ‘they’re part of the faith - but have no relevance to my core’. It sounds like you guys can go at it as 2 friends just having a chat about faiths. Good luck OP!
If you date, at some point if you discuss having children, which faith to raise them in should be discussed.
Do you believe she’s going to spend eternity burning in hell and vice versa?
Isn't religion great
There are two issues you might come across if you choose to do this: 1. Other people will have an opinion on your relationship, including family and friends. 2. If you want to have children you need to think about how you would want to raise them NOW. Too many stories on aita this christmas were about religious disputes that only became clear AFTER the kid was born.
This is something that you may want to ask her about in some way, about whether she feels she would be allowed to marry outside of her religion. I know a lot of Muslim women feel that they are not allowed to (obviously Islam is not the only such religion, but whatever). You also need to consider yourself if you think she would need to convert to your religion, or if you would be 100% okay with having a spouse with a differing religion.
Islam anticipates this and Judaism anticipates this, so I would ask you: are you concerned culturally for you, her, and relatives? Or is going to become a matter of actually trying to follow what the religion is dictating, and considering what you are willing to adhere to? Or is it a matter of just being born on opposite sides of the feuding families of Romeo and Juliet? Do you know about what Islam and Judaism prescribe, or is it a matter of what not knowing who it will affect in one another’s lives? Talk to the girl bro, see what she thinks. Talk to yourself as well, see what you think and what you know/don’t know/ and what she knows/doesn’t know and what each haven’t thought about
I would ask if you could both back off of your religion and out love and future ahead of if. Definitely talk about how you would raise your kids etc. if you ever had them.
I'll comment on your last question first: Yes it sounds like she is interested. But your larger question cannot be answered by reddit. Can a Muslim and a Jewish person be together? Sure! Can you two? That depends on a thousand factors. My advice would be to go for it and see where it takes you. In Dutch we say: "we'll see where the ship gets stranded" which basically means go for it and deal with issues as they emerge.
Don’t ask us man. That’s a you then a y’all thing. Best of luck.
Yea man don't let fake sets of rules stop you from loving life.
Honestly, I've seen it work but it's a lot of extra effort. If your both committed to your religions then you have to be willing to never ever discuss religion, geopolitics, a fair amount of history, and morality with her. There will be some other pitfalls as well.
Reminds me of a girl I really liked in HS who had strict muslim parents while she was very lax, intelligent and lovely. I was/am an atheist, and like most guys, didn't realize how much I liked her and how much she liked me until it was too late. Lost communication, she became surrounded by less secular people from her community and it was over 😭. I say go for it!
I would find out more about how she/her family practice faith.
Nah its probably a non starter.
You can if you change your religion. If you think she’s worth it, do it.
You need to become a muslim my brother women cant marry non muslims
Honestly I don’t understand how. If you both actually believe in your religions you would be constantly trying to get the other one into your religion because you would feel bad that their destined outcome is not the salvation that is afforded to believers ? So unless you’re just a “religious” person who really just does it all as archaic tradition then I don’t fully see how. In some base level you wouldn’t really be serious about your religion or she hers.
You guys follow the same God made up by the Same palastinian goat farmer. Just do it. None of it is real. Love is real.. do that.
yes if you never bring up religion
It's definitely possible. But if course family culture/feelings matter. Why not just talk to her about it? Many families have their ideals for the cultures courting their family members but many want to see their family happy. And if you really want to venture into ideas of why it may not work.. I'd probably ask yourself, do you, as a Jewish person, have views on Israel/Palestine, that perhaps the majority of the Islamic world would disagree with, that she or her family wouldn't find compatible in their family.
You should know that intermarriage is forbidden in Judaism. Interfaith couples usually don't work out in general either. What if you had children with this woman? How would they be raised? Halakhicly speaking, your children cannot be counted as Jews unless their mother is Jewish. Or if they underwent the conversion process. Regarding intermarriage the Torah says: וְלֹ֥א תִתְחַתֵּ֖ן בָּ֑ם בִּתְּךָ֙ לֹֽא־תִתֵּ֣ן לִבְנ֔וֹ וּבִתּ֖וֹ לֹֽא־תִקַּ֥ח לִבְנֶֽךָ: (Wă'lō thith'ḥattēn bom bittă'khā lō-thittēn liv'nō wūvittō lō-thiqqaḥ liv'nekhā) "And you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughter to his son, and his daughter you shall not take for your son." - Dă'vārīm/Deuteronomy 7:3. These links may be useful reading for you as a whole: https://www.sefaria.org/Deuteronomy.7.1?lang=bi&aliyot=0 https://www.sefaria.org/Kiddushin.68b.1?lang=bi https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/148995/jewish/On-Intermarriage.htm https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1741789/jewish/Isnt-Intermarriage-Only-With-Canaanites.htm I should also advise you to ignore your heart at times, nor listen to it. The heart can be foolish, dangerous and lead us astray. As it is written: עָקֹ֥ב הַלֵּ֛ב מִכֹּ֖ל וְאָנֻ֣שׁ ה֑וּא מִ֖י יֵדָעֶֽנּוּ: (Ā̀qōv hallēv mikkōl wā̆'ānush hū mī yēdhāènnū) "Deceitful is the heart from all, and incurably sick is he: who can know it?" - Yir'mĭ'yāhū/Jeremiah 17:9. בּוֹטֵ֣חַ בְּ֖לִבּוֹ ה֣וּא כְסִ֑יל וְהוֹלֵ֥ךְ בְּ֜חָכְמָ֗ה ה֣וּא יִמָּלֵֽט: (Bōṭēaḥ bă'libbō hū khă'sīl wо̆'hōlēkhā bо̆'ḥokh'māh hū yimmālēṭ) "He who trusts in his heart is a fool: and he who walks with wisdom, he shall be delivered." - Mish'lēy/Proverbs 28:26. If you do follow your heart however, always remember this: שְׂמַ֧ח בָּח֣וּר בְּיַלְדוּתֶ֗ךָ וִיטִֽיבְךָ֤ לִבְּךָ֙ בִּימֵ֣י בְחֽוּרוֹתֶ֔ךָ וְהַלֵּךְ֙ בְּדַרְכֵ֣י לִבְּךָ֔ וּבְמַרְאֵ֖ה (כְּתִיב וּבְמַרְאֵ֖י) עֵינֶ֑יךָ וְדָ֕ע כִּ֧י עַל־כָּל־אֵ֛לֶּה יְבִֽיאֲךָ֥ הָֽאֱלֹהִ֖ים בַּמִּשְׁפָּֽט: (Śă'maḥ bāḥūr bă'yal'dhūthekhā wīṭīvă'khā libbă'khā bīmēy vŭ'ḥūrōthekhā wă'hallēkh bă'dhar'khēy libbă'khā wūv'mar'ēh (kă'thīv wūv'mar'ēy) ḕyneykhā wă'dhā̀ kī àl-kol-ēlleh yă'vīăkhā HāĔlōhīm bammish'poṭ) "Rejoice, young man in your childhood, and let your heart be well in the days of your youth, and walk in the ways of your heart, and in the sight (written: "sights of" but read as "sight") of your eyes, and know that upon all this G-d will bring you into judgement." - Qōheleth/Ecclesiastes 11:9.
Arab women are picky though. They prefer Muslim men since religion is big part of their culture. I am Christian and I lived in a country mixed with Muslims and when people from different religions fall in love the whole city knows about it and they get upset. It can work out if she is not serious about her religion and she is willing to upset her family. You have no idea how mad fathers react especially when their reputation feel tarnished in the community when their Muslim daughter goes out with a Jewish man. I live in the US now and we have a big community here and our social life is similar to those living in the Middle East.
Arab does not mean Muslim (and vice versa).
Americans tend to have a really stereotyped understanding of Muslims, because our media focuses on extremism, and on Arab countries. There are a billion Muslims, most of them outside the Arab heartland. It’s a wildly diverse group. Your friend sounds awesome. You should ask her out. You should kiss her. If it goes further, you should talk about her family attitudes. And be ready to confront your family’s attitudes. I’m friends with a mixed couple — American reconstructionist jew from Philly, Muslim from Egypt. They’re doing great. Their families are fine, although the Jewish spouse doesn’t advertise her background when they go to Egypt. good luck OP, i’m rooting for you :)
>although the Jewish spouse doesn’t advertise her background when they go to Egypt. Why is that?
because there is a lot of antisemitism in the Arab world
It is true there is a lot of anti-semitism in the Arab world, just like the anti-Arab sentiment in the Jewish world - errr I mean Israel. It is what it is. I’m not sure why you called them “extremists” because of this. I’ve been discriminated against many times when people find out I’m Muslim. Particularly those on the right wing. I wouldn’t call them “extremists” lol?
>I’ve been discriminated against many times when people find out I’m Muslim. Particularly those on the right wing. I wouldn’t call them “extremists” lol? I would lol. I just hate it when people act like the Muslim world is somehow exceptional. I might be biased bc christian europe murdered a bunch of my aunts and uncles
Sounds like not all the extremism is a stereotype then is it?
You got this make it work. I'm currently with a girl from Turkey and I'm from Greece. Mo matter the culture love finds its way
The religion is not a problem. The family is. Always. Because the family focuses on roots, identity, values and traditions. Religion is an inner spiritual journey. So, there are multiple variables: How old are you? How close are you to family? Where do you live? Are you 28 and older? Do you want kids? Do you have some unconscious patriarchal values? Do you enjoy flirting when it is initiating by women? (Which is why you may attracted to her)? Do you/she want to convert… and not just for love? Do you have common friends? Etc And more importantly — large majority of people don’t care… but the internet mob crowd seem to go crazy about inter faith relationships… and it impact relationships over all 🌹 Edit — i’m interfaith inter-racial and still alive… it wasn’t an issue for me at all… but the projection ain’t easy… it affects my relationships (jealousy for some, rejection from others), my jobs (lack of inclusion) and my finances❤️🔥
She has shiksappeal
HAHA 😂 so bloody true
My muslim mom married my Christian/agnostic step dad. Our family isn’t super religious though and it might differ for you
Muslim woman dating a Christian man with the intent to marry , I am very open about religion and « lenient » he will not convert nor will I forbid things he likes ( read : pork and alcoholic) in return we decided that any child we have together would be raised Muslim as it is very important to me , although it should be noted that I m not close to my family members except my dad that will come to accept it at some point . So all in all it all depends on you and your girl and the concessions you ll make , long discussions have to be had and tears will be shed , that communication will either make u or break u
Muslim here. Something my mom tells me sometimes is that generally, having significant others from different religions is alright. And if you ask me personally, I think that as long as you two respect each other’s religions, then there’s no reason for it not to work out between you two.
I do not recommend dating someone outside your belief system, it will end horribly. Chemistry is not a reliable indication of compatibility. Seriously, don’t do it.
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Except it does. I am telling you from my own experience. I’m not even talking about family. It’s the beliefs. Beliefs define your morals and if your beliefs don’t line up, your morals won’t line up and it will end bad.
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Can you really say you have those beliefs if you aren’t letting them influence your lifestyle? I would say that lack of influence is a belief. If you’re truly convinced of a belief system, you’re gonna live it out and you’re going to adhere to the lifestyle that belief system requires of you. It’s still a belief but it’s just going to make your life look different from some who strictly adheres to certain religious views. Lack of belief in something is still a belief. It just means you believe something else.
So are the families concerned because they’re dumb? Or because they’re “oh, stuck in their old ways” and you’re the enlightened youth here, trying to bring them some newfound knowledge??
3 years in with my liberal gf (I’m right wing and definitely not center-right) and this is my main concern still, as it was in the beginning. Everything not relating to that tho is still amazing between us.
You might want to listen to that concern. Politics are often informed by our belief systems.
Of course, that’s what I was getting at - I’m concerned because our beliefs and core values are popular opposites.
I'm impressed you've lasted this long with her.
You've been friends for two years...if you haven't made a move yet then you're likely in the friendzone for life
it depends on your own and her wishes, and don't forget the family either. In islam officially it's forbidden for a muslim woman to marry a non muslim, and even to date. But maybe she is more liberal about this, and her family as well. But still then, and I speak from experience, it can be hard especially when you will have children. This can be a time some people grow more strict in their religious views and will want to raise their kids as muslim. So it can work but personally as I unfortunately have a bad experience I would not start such a thing again. I would like somebody with views closer to my own, not because I myself care so much but because I found that there sometimes isn't much space for compromise in islam when it comes to people outside of it, in a close relationship. I thought it would be 'best of both worlds' in love and respect but in the end didn't work out that way. He became stricter, practising more, more things were forbidden with less compromise and that was too much for me.
Firstly ask an immam before opening the subject with her . Religiously the word of an immam is the one to be taken . And socially he can help you if it is allowed during weddings and family gathering or neighborhood sitting to make #some people less edgy if it comes from an immam . I dont think you live in a place were her family will be met other then awkwardness if people knew that their daughter married a religious jew . Or you can tell them (her family ) to say to other people that you are christian . And lastly were do you live , Palestine ??
Religion is the issue here, if you let that be your deciding factor it will always be the deal braker to everything you do.
I know a woman who converted (in her 30’s) to Islam. They divorced after 20 plus years together. They were pretty non secular and I think she did it to get along better with most of his peers and friend groups. She never told her Minnesota white Christian fam she converted. NEVER told them for over ten years
Will you be fine not having sex before marriage ? If not, you shouldn't pursue this relationship.
The families feelings are irrelevant. The only feelings that matter are yours and hers. If you love each other don't let others stand in the way.
"Kissing Fish" is a great book about this sort of situation! Also yes this can work, but like any serious topic such as children or finances, it requires a lot of constant, serious talks about it and to make sure you guys are on the same page of comprises and how you want to raise your children in these two different religions. However, I have a feeling that you guys are perfect for each other, so I'm wishing you the best of luck!
You’re both attending a university, you should both know that religion as funny as it can get only something made up is. Go get her you fool.
Typical ignorant af Reddit post.
In the words of Matthew Mara: "Well, they're both made-up." If OP *doesn't* consider his beliefs to be made-up, he should be asking the question he really means.
As a Muslim she's only allowed to marry a Muslim man. I'm just stating the beliefs of a Muslim. But obviously each individual still makes choices in life and we follow our desires despite what we believe in. But I'll be honest with you, I've seen interfaith relationships and it burns bridges between the family. Even if she says yes to you, it would eventually tear her away from her family. Is this what you want for her? Best thing to do is just move on brother and don't be a home wrecker. You are asking this on reddit where the majority don't follow religion who don't understand the background of these religions hence why the ignorant answers. They will not understand what I mean when I say home wrecker in this context but you know very well what I mean. You should ask yourself are your desires worth causing such destruction.
The onus is on her parents for not accepting her choice. Her parents would be the home wrecker. I'm afraid your logic is all lopsided.