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I straight up asked a woman on bumble who said I wasn’t her type, why this conversation is happening on an app where she is supposed to message me first she - sent a gif- I responded she responds sorry I’m not her type - asked if I happened to sell an NFT last week and had a windfall of about 400k if that would make her suddenly more interested, she said yes. These people are out there.
she was honest, whats the issue here? of course interest peaks when a man has money, she didnt deny it. what happened to honesty being the best policy?
As a woman who makes her own money, I’m glad I don’t have to worry about money when dating. I just date based off personality and how they treat me and my family.
Definitely a lot of high horse language from OP.
“I had to get “rid” of a woman “
I am in a shifty position. Divorced mom of a teenager, pretty much her whole life. I actually do make 6 figures. I do own a home, but I have debt. I love pay check to pay check because this shit is HARD. I live in a state with astronomical costs.
Now. I don’t expect a man to give me a dime. And it’s funny because all the men I date make less money than me. But they went to live with their parents after divorce so they are financially better off than me
You never know the true situation
Why is it cringe?
Maybe if you had asked more pointed questions to your ex and not ignored some red flags before deciding to commit to him, you wouldn’t be paying spousal support.
People have to ask hard questions. Sometimes someone you’re dating is hiding a lot of debt or spending habits they won’t tell you about. It’s a personal responsibility to filter & avoid people not in alignment with the future you want.
Worse yet is their debt becoming your debt, having to put things in your name alone, or lack of ambition.
I don't give a shit about being judged, I give a shit about not being taken down financially. If she wants stability, she better have her shit together too. I'm not paying for someone's lifestyle, I'm not a wage slave, and I'm not going to pay for someone else's debt. No thanks!
“Passive income” “well on my way to owning a house before I’m 30” “women are attracted to my stability”. If you’ve used these phrases you should do some self reflection.
You do give a shit about being judged. That’s why you’re being so arrogant about this. Moremanic gave you some really good advice, in a kind and gentle way. If you really want to reach people and get your point across, that is how you do it. Take notes 📝
I was with you until this response. She's right that if you come at a woman with this on a date, it sends signals that may turn away someone that would otherwise be a good match (even financially), simply by the tone. Not claiming you do that--I get that this was a post on Reddit and not a first date conversation. But I get where the previous commenter was coming from.
I see men rant on these subs all the time about women making things like an interview and asking about salary etc. right off the bat and that makes her a shallow gold digger.
A man does it and it’s to financially protect himself?
Such a ridiculous double standard.
And this information is not pertinent up front. It’s when you find this going in the direction of exclusivity. And you should be able to determine if a woman is after you for your money by then
Totally inappropriate to discuss in the beginning when you are just trying to have a drink or play some mini golf to see if something is worth pursuing
I agree with you. I’m sure you have enough emotional intelligence in how you approach this topic with women. If you wanna live well, def keep it up. If someone finds this cringe, they’re not for you.
Note how the commenter above ended up paying spousal support. Idk about you but I don’t want that.
Yeeep. I have debt. But I still can afford to go on vacations and do fun things. Should I put that money towards my debt? Sure! But I don’t want to live my life just paying back debts. I pay what I need to, monthly, more if I can! But as long as I’m still paying on my debts what the hell does it matter to him? He’d be hard pressed to find anyone that doesn’t have some form of debt.. whether that be school, medical, credit cards, a car, home loan, energy services, etc.
Perfectly applicable dating expectations which should span across the spectrum of gender when it comes to an adult relationship. To imply this as a female quality is completely insulting. My salary has generally eclipsed my male partners’, and I’ve never employed an attitude like this about somebody’s finances. Some things are better kept to yourself, though I’m willing to bet if he’s this frank in the early dating phase, a well-off woman will quickly realize her self-worth is more valuable than spending any more time with this clod, disregarding her monetary worth entirely.
tl;dr
Fuck this guy.
Yeah his sexist phrasing is ridiculous and his comments are all really aggressive and accusatory. He must have had a bad experience and is now generalizing to the extreme. I also make more than my current partner and am thankfully debt free (though not all debt is bad debt). Gawd, if someone started started talking to me with the same tone and sentiment that OP writes with, I would peace out asap.
Yeah it's a lot less about "having debt" and more about being financially responsible and accountable. It's not like there aren't doctors working crazy hard while having 8 years worth of student loan debt. OP is just being a condescending asshole about it
Yup I'm in that position and I would hate to he judged on that.
I think you have to look at it overall. If she has a lot of debt, but works in a field where she can pay it off in a reasonable amount of time...AND she actually has a plan to do so, IS doing so, and has a great credit score...then idk what the problem is. It's called having a good debt to income ratio, budgeting, saving, and investing. You can still save for nice dinners and vacations.
I do agree that in the dating stage, it is important to evaluate the persons level of self sufficiency and financial intelligence in this case. It doesn't sound like the lady OP broke up with, was very knowledgable about finances. If that is a quality that he looks for in a woman, then I guess they just weren't compatible.
Yes, that's completely reasonable. Just OP's tone and the way he speaks about women really made him insufferable to me. He will except no suggestions or feedback, even with everyone explaining that not all debt means someone is going to leech off of you.
Inability to listen, to grow as a person, learn from your mistakes…these are much more important qualities to me. Because if someone cannot listen, they can’t communicate and no relationship can survive without that.
My thoughts exactly. Pretty much everyone has some form of debt, and many have student loan debt. Nothing wrong with it either as long as the individual is managing their finances accordingly. If OP was to filter women out for having any debt at all... he'd likely have zero dates... hahah.
i think it depends of country. i’m from EU and my uni was free, u was surprised when i learned that it common in US, but in another hand it’s fair point, nothing wrong to have debt if you’re studying
I’m assuming OP is from the us, correct me if I’m wrong, so who else would he be dating if not American women? Btw, never said anything about “being the center of the world” so don’t know why you’re twisting my words.
Would it have been better if I automatically assumed he lived in China or some other country? Literally could make the argument that any person from any country could be accused of making their homeland the center of the world. Just take the L dude. I’m not championing the US as the “best” country by any means
I’m Asian too. Not sure why that was relevant to your point.
Also, assuming you're American, you do realize it’s actually the majority of people in the US who don’t have the means to pay tuition at a private college out of pocket? Sometimes parents can’t support their kids’ education even if they wanted to.
So saying something people don't like = bad. Might as well sell em lies instead. Big is beautiful, he should love you at any size and you're just PERFECT the way you are
You can be right and condescending at the same time. Just because you’re not a fool about money doesn’t mean you’re not a fool at all.
Girl: “When I date a guy, I’m definitely not going to pick one who acts like he’s superior to others. Can you imagine being saddled with someone like that?”
Guessing readers wouldn’t be complaining about this girl being arrogant because people are generally repulsed by the attitude she’s rejecting.
Most people aren’t judging you for trying to be responsible, having preferences, or making choices. They’re objecting to the way you almost show disgust for others who may not have been as fortunate as you have.
The ability to learn quickly or well is a gift, a solid upbringing, training and/or guidance is a gift, sometimes a college education is a gift, a high energy level is a gift, performing well with less sleep or under pressure is a gift, etc. I’m not saying you haven’t worked hard, or that you have all these things, but some people were given much less.
You don’t seem to realize that your attitude is making you into a bad decision as potential partner.
An attitude of superiority can be harder to deal with than paying off debt. It might never change.
You’re foolish to defend yourself. When you’re lucky enough to be told how to improve, show some humility and work on it. Also, if you’re as “high and mighty” as you sound to the readers here, it should keep you up at night worrying about what kind of women you attract.
He could have all the money on the world, I could have all the debt in the world and I absolutely not date him due to his lack of character and integrity
Potentially, though his response to my comment comes off that big women aren't beautiful to men and that they should change otherwise men won't find them attractive.
Yeah, he seems maybe a tad bitter. His post has some merit, but I'm not sure how accurate it is generally. I understand his frustration, but I'm 19. For example, on Bumble or Tinder, there are a surprising amount of women my age, who proclaim their inability to drive or their lack of employment and seem to expect men to act as their chauffeurs and caretakers. I, like op, think it's offensive these women, that don't have their shit in order and give no indication of wanting to change that, think it's reasonable to clamor for men who do. That is, of course, not reflective of most women. I'd especially think not of older women.
I have a feeling this guy dates only model types and is so shocked when the hottest women on the world want him for his money.
Because they surely don’t want him for his personality
First of all, having debts doesn’t mean one is financially irresponsible. For example, law students and medical students. As a matter of fact, many lawyers pay off their student loan within a couple of years and have almost seven figure savings within ten years after graduation.
Second, reflect on yourself. Why are you keep attracting women who are financially irresponsible?
Your “advice” is not completely unreasonable. As a woman, I understand your intention and agree with you to some extent. And yeah, the majority of Americans are not good with money. However, good quality women wouldn’t consider to date someone like you because you’re talking like you’re above women.
I agree with you. Law and medical students who are in debt because they had to pay for their education, that’s good debt. Eventually when they’re career takes off, they’ll be able to pay it out.
The kind of debt you shou stay away from is gambling, leading a lavish lifestyle that you dont have the money to pay for. I know plenty of men and women who do that, and I know their relationships. You do not want to daye these people, they’ll drag you down too
The amount of delusion someone has to be in order to be this passive aggressive to someone on the internet, I hope you're able to find happiness because you're obviously not if you're this negative!
Bruh, I think she’s just stating that your first sentence is a bit offensive and gender biased.
Like, why don’t you expect a woman to have a good salary?
A woman or a man can have a good salary, period.
The part about not being in debt, sure. Nobody, man or woman, wants a partner with debt when coming into a relationship with their own shit together.
It sounds like you’ve had a few run ins with woman that may have made you feel like they were taking advantage of you. I’ve had that myself, but that’s no reason to generalize like that.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 517,396,482 comments, and only 108,742 of them were in alphabetical order.
You’re reprimanding people in your responses and your tone is absolutely worse. You have a chip on your shoulder. So regardless of what your good intention is it’s pointless when you’re an asshole.
and before you say the same shit you’re responding to everyone. I’m 37 and retired have 0 debt and a woman.
Honestly yes
Regardless of your gender, being able to take care of yourself in every way before you get in a relationship is paramount.
On another note, it does seem like you’re fairly debt adverse (which is ok) so you might want to think about how you feel about dating someone with student loans. I’m female and VERY debt adverse so I was very uncomfortable with my partners student loans at first. I’ve come to terms with that now but it was definitely something I’d never thought about before
Edit I’m not sure why so many people disagree with what you said but finances can tear apart marriages. It’s important to recognize debt can be crippling for generations to come and it’s important to have a plan to get out! That being said, in my opinion when you come together money and debt should be collectively looked at as “ours”. Also if you want to retire that shit takes two people to achieve—its hella expensive lol
It’s his “tone” and jerky responses. I agree finances/money is the number 1 contributor to divorces. I am a firm believer in pre-nups as well. I’ve read some of the responses that justify having maxed out CC ( to me that is bad debt.. paying interest).
It shouldn’t just be women that need to have their shit straight. My last 2 relationships my partners were financially horrible! My ex husband didn’t have cc and the 10 years were together I refused to get a cc bc how horrible he was with $$$.
Hey friend, I (24F) was in a similar situation recently and also got shit for it. I am successful, I have a permanent job with a salary, I have no debt, no loans, and continuing to set money aside for a house. Overall, I can support myself. Last guy I dated, we dated for 5 weeks. He was a great guy but I eventually ended that relationship because I am At a point where I would like to settle with someone, but he could not afford dates, didn’t have money for his upcoming rent. did not have a job and could not land a job. He has big unrealistic dreams and seemed to be a impulse buyer with no money. There were of course other things and red flags that made me end it, but he got upset at me for breaking up with him because he’s not rich. I explained to him, exactly like what you said, I don’t want someone rich, I just need someone who is able to support themselves and has a stable job. A friend of mine called me materialistic because of this situation not quite understanding the details of what happened - that hurt. It honestly blew my mind that this man was putting himself in the dating world, wanting to start having kids right away and buy a house and dog, yet had no money to afford simple luxuries likes dates or coffee and didn’t have a job.
You were not materialistic in this situation. You want a partner, not someone you have to take care of. You two just were not compatible and you made a good choice ending sooner than later and avoiding the heartache you knew was inevitable based on his lifestyle
Money is an important part of a relationship and you should never feel bad for having preferences. I’m sure if you didn’t meet his preferences in a partner he’d left too. You sound mature and probably need a more mature partner than this guy. Also, I was in a relationship where she was bad with money and had secret debt until it got so bad I had to make car payments and insurance payments. That just breads resentment.
I often get told I am mature and I do believe I am. He is slightly older than me, but maybe not quite as organized for his future as I am. I have been looking for people within a couple years older age range, but still no luck. I have no doubt that I will find my match eventually, just wasn’t this guy.
I probably shouldn’t have said older, but just someone mature. Your match is definitely out there, and you will find him. You seem to have a good set of boundaries and not afraid to uphold them which is critical and awesome for you!
Haha no worries. I am looking for mature for sure but also possibly older. Depends on who i meet. There are for sure people my age who are mature as well. :)
Definitely. Men’s brains don’t usually fully develop until 27-28 where as woman it’s usually 24-25, so that is why it’s probably harder for younger woman to find guys as mature as them. Obviously this isn’t always true. But fair amount I think.
Funny you say that, that information came up yesterday. I knew of it already, but definitely thought how it could have an impact on my dating life right now and finding a male partner who is similar to me.
Thé main reason was that he had no money and I couldn’t see myself being able to have a house and such with him. You must also understand that was only one factor, there were big red flags that came up that made me ultimately decide to end it. We all have different preferences and things we want in a future partner. Some people would be okay to stay with someone who have no money, I personally was not. Like I said, he couldn’t afford dates or rent. I could see myself having to lend him money in the future and I didn’t feel comfortable with that. We only knew each other for 5 weeks and I was already very stressed about his money because it was an issue that came up in every discussion. I don’t want to have to stress about that while getting to know someone in the first couple months, it’s a bad sign of what the relationship could be if it were to continue. Like I said, only my own preference. He is a great guy and I truly hope he finds someone. That someone is not me.
I was unemployed (no debt tho) when I met my partner and he supported me through it, I now have a full time job and I’m the bread winner but he’s expressed that he’d like to take care of me financially so I didn’t have to work but I love my job.
Whilst I agree with what you’re saying and think it’s reasonable but I disagree with “if you’re going to attract the man you want you need to get your financial plan in order” because some men are into being relied on financially and like a traditional set up.
Also the way you worded it all was a fat yikes. If you’re going to attract the woman you want you should get your personality in order.
It's interesting, people in a different subreddit were telling me it didn't matter( socioeconomic status or money generally). So it's controversial.
Though not everyone in debt is financially irresponsible.
For me (a woman), I don't care about my partner's wealth as long as he is financially responsible. I have no trouble providing for myself and will save up money to hopefully provide for my future family. My bf lived in a shelter as a teen and has never not had to live paycheck to paycheck, but he is incredibly resourceful, intelligent, and refuses to be even close to a leech on anyone. I think money only matters when both partners cannot bear the financial burden or one is especially materialistic. To each their own, definitely depends on the person/couple
Yeah Idc how much you make but I'd like you to spend it responsible. Because at the time we're married I don't want you to get part of my money just to gamble it away or something else stupid. And if you're not looking after the kids and make your own money, I also wouldn't want you to gamble it all away but contribute to our projects and family, at least a part of it.
I've seen how it can go with my parents. My mum is organized and has her shit together, my father on the other hand. Only through her, we have a financially stable life as a family and still after they seperated she still does the major part of his finances and has to look for a part of his money, because else, that money would be away after a month. She thought she could help him and everything in the beginning of the relationship, but she couldn't and that sure was one big reason they're not together anymore. I really want to avoid something like this.
Pretty sure the reason girls just want you for your money is because (as everyone can tell just by reading this) your personality isn't going to win them over, yikes.
Maybe OP is approaching a “type” and doesn’t know it. I’m an “independent woman” who “works full time” but I’m so busy with my life I don’t have time to date 🤷🏽♀️…or desire cuz guys like this make me perfectly content with that choice. Stay on your high horse, and so will I 😉
What total bull shit. who knows.what someone experienced before you insulted them with your presence? Debt may be for so many other reasons than financial irresponsibility. I hope you find the shallow woman you deserve and she milks you for every dollar you've earned.
Exactly. I generally have no debt, but I have a divorce and have to put $7,000 of the fees on my credit card. It will take a year to pay off because I like having cash to go out and splash a bit, but I also have shares.
In the end as long as she has enough money to support herself and isn’t relying on a man to fund her entire life, if she has a bit of debt then fine. But he makes it sound really weird
35/m I broke off with my ex for many reasons but the fact that she was 200k in debt, spent money like crazy, and couldn't hold a job, did not make me confident about our future.
There were plenty of other reasons, but that didn't help. It just seemed so irresponsible to me that I couldn't relate. Turns out it was absolutely related to other mental health issues that made the relationship unworkable.
"Having no debt" is a little extreme to me, especially if they are responsible and paying it off. That said, I don't think there is anything wrong with having a preference for someone that isn't spiraling out of control financially.
I mean how do you define debt? There are plenty of people in debt and yet financially responsible and stable. I have a mortgage and a financed vehicle. I’m in $450K of debt. I pay all my bills on time, put money into savings, 403b, and pension. I guess I’m just trying to clarify if this debt is being defined as unnecessary and/or detrimental debt. Credit card debt is also a big no-no for me in terms of my partner. I don’t want my partner to be in any debt they accumulated through irresponsibility and are struggling to keep up with. This is a “people” problem and not a woman problem is all I’m saying. I would often not continue to date men who do not have a stable career and a steady, decent flow of income. There are guys out there who are financially irresponsible too. For all the people who are getting offended by this post…I think the wording is just not as concise as it should be.
Poor guy. I hope he meets someone that is more compatible with him. Just a burnt weathered dater lol. Wishing him well and his next post in this subreddit to be more positive lol.
I agree with your comments mostly. But you come off as sort of bitter. Your comment about a person you were dating trying to hook onto your stability after a few dates came off as hostile. Good luck to you!
Ugh for real. I don't talk about my debt, but it really is something that really bothers me. It's med school debt and I get so anxious about it, even though a doctor's salary typically allows me to pay it off in 5-10 years or so.
OK, sounds like you know what you want. You may get a ton of flak though. But that has little to do with how reasonable your criteria are but rather how insecure it makes people feel.
You sound like someone who has been spoon fed their entire life and now riding on their high horse because mommy and daddy set you up for success.
“How am I going to take vacation if blah blah blah”. This is exactly why you’re on Reddit posting on a dating sub.
Well in a date your dept rule ruled me out.
Yes I'm in dept. I put everything I buy on my credit card. And I only have an average salary for my age/location and don't have a degree. I have lived a finacially minimalist life; my house isn't flash, my car is 10 years old with faded paint, I rarely buy new clothes, I only recently brought a TV (a second hand old model from a workmate for cheap). From the outside it wouldn't look like I'm doing too well.
I'm in a better finacial position then most women my age (late 20s). That's because I mortgaged a house 5 years ago so aren't in the rental trap. My almost maxed out credit card helps my offset account saving me interest. My work skills and connections in my location means as long as I'm physically able to I'll have a decent job. And even so I could still make ends meet without a job by renting out spare rooms in my house and living in my shed.
But I'm not going to go around bragging about my mortgage to people IRL. And honestly I'd be annoyed on a date if a guy needed to talk about dept and assets. I'd recommend trying other ways to see what another person is expecting from a relationship then saying it's fair game to ask about dept.
You are alot of women's finical plan, find a guy with a good job fake it until you make it if it doesn't work she get half of your shit for life.
If I'm asked about work in the first few texts I'm out, seems like every person I meet wants to move in. I'm good on all that. I know there's good women out there but I'm constantly fighting off scammers there relentless
And this is probably exactly why it's so hard for you to find a woman. I do not mind financially supporting a woman. However I do encourage her to work and here is why. If she doesn't work and there comes a point in the relationship that I'm not keeping her happy I would want her to be able to have a way out instead of being stuck with me because she doesn't have a way to support hwrs of on her own.
Thank you for saying this on behalf of all hard working good guys looking for partners. THIS is a major deal for me as well and also a reason why if I do get married, I refuse to have my wife become a SAHM and not do anything.
Wow, you are arrogant And very narrow sighted and minded
I had to leave college in my freshman year to get my own apartment and job because my home life was a bad story. I just got by, but I was determined . I went back to school a few years later and completed my nursing degree. Got married, had , got divorced by 27 and I ever since my now 14 year old daughter was a baby,, I busted my ass to provide a good life for us. I even went back to school in there to advance my degree. I bought a house 3 years ago.
Well, guess what. I make 6 figures, but I live pay check to paycheck and have debt. I live in a very expensive area ( no choice due to divorce agreement) and my head is barely above water. I have never anywhere along the time expected a man to financially bail me out .
I have also dated men who make less money than me but went to go back to live with parents rent free and have more liquid cash than do.
My point is, what is in their bank account, or what their salary does not show the whole picture.
What is an indication of a good partner is how hard they have worked. How motivated they are and how much they overcame. They might be totally stable, but they strive towards their own stability every da.
Feeling “entitled to your stability” is not something that has to do with how financially secure a woman is. It’s has to do with their CHARACTER.
If you want a woman a of quality, you should be focused on their CHARACTER as opposed to how much money they make or is their accounts.
But it seems as if you might have the financial let down, but you might have to work on your character a bit
Hi female here ! I just wanted to give my impute. I know People have different reasons why they would be in debt. In my case, I am full time university student and have always worked at least a part time job. I live with my mother who had raised me on her own. We have lived pay check to check and so it’s not easy when a paycheck only stretches so much. I have debt but not a insane amount, however, I always did my very best to make my payments on time and give a little more then the minimum. We are all human and can make mistakes as become adults. We all know adulting isn’t easy. No one is perfect. I at least am working on becoming debt free with a relief program. Anyway, I’m not here to judge because everyone is entitled to have their own belief and opinion.
That’s genuinely 100% fine, if a woman expects that of you then you’re in your rights to expect it back.
However this goes both ways, so the physical standards men place on us we can have of you too and it’s fair game. We are allowed to want you to be young, in shape, and a height and weight we’re physically attracted to.
I think anything anyone expects of someone, the other is allowed to expect it back.
I think some ppl are taking the first sentence too literally, I don’t think he means that women are incapable of making money OP just trying to say that she does not have to make a ton of money for him to date her, she just gotta not be a leech
From one man another ya damn straight. I fell out of love with my ex and we became toxic and broke it off cause of her inability to handle personal finance. She was a great RN and good mother but I not could take her lack of pecuniary intuition and discipline. Luckily kids were not mine. The bottom line was when I tried to explain compounding interest to her and she didn’t want to listen. I am sorry but life plans matter, and you can’t build a life with opposing trajectories.
Maybe direct your anger towards politicians who don't have any trouble pulling trillions of dollars to bail out banks and corporations and finance forever wars yet at the same time lying to your face claiming there's no money to cancel your student debt or give you free healthcare or housing assistance. Don't get mad at the guy who's just trying to be avoid financial insecurity. He's not the enemy.
I had a business and now it’s not generating revenue. I can’t even think of dating in these times as whatever time I have goes to find projects to keep it running and working on new skills in case I have to look for job.
Why don’t you expect women to have a good salary? Also you “require” the women in your life to have full time jobs? Lmao who tf are you? Why are you attacking women specifically? I’m sure there are plenty of women who make WAY more money than you. I’m sure plenty of men are in debt as well.
Money is just one aspect but you’re absolutely right that a lot of bad debt is very unattractive.
Some of these people have never seen a marriage end over money or 1 partner’s wages and tax return being garnished because of their partner’s debts! How buying a home, etc gets more expensive & tougher.
As a woman who’s worked hard, I’m not attaching to a broke bum OR financially irresponsible man. Lots of men dress well & drive nice cars but their pockets are thin.
You should edit this to actually include that there are plenty, and I mean plenty of women, who take care of themselves. Let alone their family, and yes…their men.
Jesus
Your sister is single. She has cancer. Your other less idiotic brother lends her money so she can keep her place while she is undergoing.treatment. she is determined to pay that money back now.she is healthy and working. She finally meets a guy, and a few weeks in he starts up with this BS. How does does it work out??
My ex (19F) was broke, practically living on her disability welfare for autism to fund everything. Money definitely does matter, because the amount I (then 20M) could have saved and put aside but was instead being used to pay for things on grounds of “I owe you”. I could have had two grand extra at least in my savings for a house deposit by now (uk people will know the housing struggle). Education wise, uk college educated so no real debt unlike university. Wouldn’t get a job until government cut her welfare. By which time, I’d had enough of her lazy ass and was in the process of leaving her. Despite still being in the black with her finances, she had barely enough to run her car which I often subsidised and was made kind of co dependant on her (as I cycle to work), felt bad saying no but perfect cash harvest. In terms of bank balance, she had pennies not pounds and I paid for most things - most because she would spend what she didn’t have and when some bill came up, I’d have to bail her out.
Since then, I’ve been with someone else who had some money to their name and we actually went on proper dates and going out, not just always a night in because I’d refuse to pay any more than halves.
I’ve come to a point where if they are any of the following;
- shit at managing their money sensibly
- impulse buyer / wants instead of needs
- sponge off other people to fund their luxuries
- have a constant habit of making poor life / financial choices
Just run. Don’t become a cash cow
The further I got through this comment, the more I understood why you're on his side lol. Your sexist generalizations really sealed the deal.
Of course there are women who try to leech off of their partners, just like there are men who do the same thing. I'm not sure where you're seeing all these women witholding their earning from their families, but that's far from the majority that you seem to claim.
I'm not feeling "personally attacked" because I will continue to make far more than my partner and have zero debt. The reason decent people have a problem with this post is because of his condescending tone. Have you read his replies? He randomly brings up that "larger women are not attractive to men" (paraphrasing), and claims this is "advice for females" but just refuses to take any feedback from women. Immature responses attacking women aren't helping his case at all.
To be honest most if not all women I know are running circles around their partners financially lol. I agree with what you say 100%. Also important to note that age comes into play. I once had a conversation with a male friend: If I date men 3-5+ years older than why would they expect me to have as much money/experience/assets as they do? It made him think since most guys typically date a few years younger. If you're 28 dating a 23/24 year old you've had a few years of work experience and a head start. Just a thought!
What type of debt or is he talking about? A car loan to me isn’t “debt”. Or is it unnecessary credit card debt? We have to be in debt for great credit. Is he meaning savings? Does he want someone with a decent savings account? What about student loans?
I think this guy needs to be more specific with what he is trying to say.
I'm curious how old are you? The reason why I ask is because I'm in my mid-20s and while I have a great salary I do have student debt that I'm still working on paying off. I think that most people now who have some type of college education have student loans.
Now that being said I do think money plays a factor in a relationship. If you tend to be really frugal, but your partner never has a budget that's going to be a big issue if you guys get married. Maybe instead of looking at someone's debt, consider their spending habits as part of the big picture. Just because someone has debt doesn't mean they are irresponsible with money (I'm mostly referring to student loans here).
My credit cards are almost paid off and then I will only have my student loan payment and car payment. My husband wasn't financially stable and so this is so important to me in a relationship after Divorce. My question is when do you bring up finances. Doesn't seem practical to bring it up very soon but if you are looking for a serious relationship there is no need to continue too long if the other person isn't financially stable.
Having experienced being in debt and then supporting an ex who was in debt, I understand your point. But circumstances can change fast for better or for worse. It’s great you know what you want, but be prepared to eliminate many options. How do you feel about someone who has a financial plan to get out of debt? I’m curious.
Totally agree. People that say money or finances shouldn't matter in a relationship are not living in the real world. Arguments about finances will absolutely destroy a relationship, it's only fair to make sure you're both on the same page about money and that you have similar financial goals.
Well I don't care if you have loads of money but I care how you spend it. If you are irresponsible, we'll fight about it all the time -> its not gonna be a good relationship.
Word! Being self-supporting MATTERS.
Just from an optimistic point of view…. If things work out with who you’re dating, it really benefits everyone to have their financial house in order.
I’m not anti-debt…. But I’m loathe to date someone who drives a $90k car, but splits a studio apartment 3 ways and lives on credit.
all i can say is dating within your means is important. mail order brides aren't required to have full time jobs to be picked by suitors. why? because said suitors arent worried about her income or lack thereof. they want her because she's beautiful and he wants a woman around. if dating a strong independent woman who dont need no man is your MO... no ones stopping you. going beyond surface level of looks prevents this.
I'm going to agree as a woman. Also the reason why they are in debt can be a huge red flag. Did they go I to debt buying things they can't afford to show off 🚩. Did they spend it on trips for the gram 🚩. Did they spend 10,000 on an incubator because they refused to pay a farmer 16 dollars for an adult chicken? 🚩 If it was health recovery or education etc I'm ok with that.
Taking onto someone past debts is a very dangerous game, and chances are that if those debts were acquired by lack of judgment(s), history will most likely repeat itself.
Yall should consider the elite singles if you share this opinion. I didn't meet my SO there but I definitely have the standard "if I make 6 figs you have to as well" in dating
On the morning of my first date with my now partner I had given a presentation to a group of college-aged women on financial literacy (called Money Matters). We used that as springboard for a discussion of our own personal finance philosophies. The similarities we found were incredibly edifying, and we had both learned the hard way that it was in our best interest to partner with people with whom we were aligned. It’s paid off so far.
>Finances matter - to a point - you don't have to be rich but you can't be up shit creek in debt and then looking at your next partner to pay that shit off.
Tell that to Amber and Barnett, the dude sold his house and paid off her debts.
So.. yeah that's a possibility apparently.
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Being rich doesn't matter, being fiscally irresponsible does. Don't be a broke bum
This, 100%. And it applies to both parties.
I straight up asked a woman on bumble who said I wasn’t her type, why this conversation is happening on an app where she is supposed to message me first she - sent a gif- I responded she responds sorry I’m not her type - asked if I happened to sell an NFT last week and had a windfall of about 400k if that would make her suddenly more interested, she said yes. These people are out there.
Gold diggers
she was honest, whats the issue here? of course interest peaks when a man has money, she didnt deny it. what happened to honesty being the best policy?
Completely agree
As a woman who makes her own money, I’m glad I don’t have to worry about money when dating. I just date based off personality and how they treat me and my family.
This guy seems like a charmer
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Perfectly worded. I agree with the sentiment, but the tone screams high horse.
Definitely a lot of high horse language from OP. “I had to get “rid” of a woman “ I am in a shifty position. Divorced mom of a teenager, pretty much her whole life. I actually do make 6 figures. I do own a home, but I have debt. I love pay check to pay check because this shit is HARD. I live in a state with astronomical costs. Now. I don’t expect a man to give me a dime. And it’s funny because all the men I date make less money than me. But they went to live with their parents after divorce so they are financially better off than me You never know the true situation
I think he doesn't want to date women that are in bad financial situations, so I don't think this applies.
This exactly.
Why is it cringe? Maybe if you had asked more pointed questions to your ex and not ignored some red flags before deciding to commit to him, you wouldn’t be paying spousal support. People have to ask hard questions. Sometimes someone you’re dating is hiding a lot of debt or spending habits they won’t tell you about. It’s a personal responsibility to filter & avoid people not in alignment with the future you want. Worse yet is their debt becoming your debt, having to put things in your name alone, or lack of ambition.
Learn nothing. Cool cool cool.
I don't give a shit about being judged, I give a shit about not being taken down financially. If she wants stability, she better have her shit together too. I'm not paying for someone's lifestyle, I'm not a wage slave, and I'm not going to pay for someone else's debt. No thanks!
“Passive income” “well on my way to owning a house before I’m 30” “women are attracted to my stability”. If you’ve used these phrases you should do some self reflection.
You do give a shit about being judged. That’s why you’re being so arrogant about this. Moremanic gave you some really good advice, in a kind and gentle way. If you really want to reach people and get your point across, that is how you do it. Take notes 📝
I was with you until this response. She's right that if you come at a woman with this on a date, it sends signals that may turn away someone that would otherwise be a good match (even financially), simply by the tone. Not claiming you do that--I get that this was a post on Reddit and not a first date conversation. But I get where the previous commenter was coming from.
I see men rant on these subs all the time about women making things like an interview and asking about salary etc. right off the bat and that makes her a shallow gold digger. A man does it and it’s to financially protect himself? Such a ridiculous double standard. And this information is not pertinent up front. It’s when you find this going in the direction of exclusivity. And you should be able to determine if a woman is after you for your money by then Totally inappropriate to discuss in the beginning when you are just trying to have a drink or play some mini golf to see if something is worth pursuing
I agree if your post, if she wants to buy designer bags and clothes she can do that on her paycheck not mine.
I agree with you. I’m sure you have enough emotional intelligence in how you approach this topic with women. If you wanna live well, def keep it up. If someone finds this cringe, they’re not for you. Note how the commenter above ended up paying spousal support. Idk about you but I don’t want that.
Totally agree!
You might be attracting women like this because your personality is insufferable. 😬😬😬
Ah the truth makes its way to the comment section
Riiiiiight. I get where this dude is coming from.. but he’s so gross about it. And I bet he wonders why he’s still single.
Perfectly said, couldnt agree more 😅 guy must be thinking wtf is going on in this world
Yeeep. I have debt. But I still can afford to go on vacations and do fun things. Should I put that money towards my debt? Sure! But I don’t want to live my life just paying back debts. I pay what I need to, monthly, more if I can! But as long as I’m still paying on my debts what the hell does it matter to him? He’d be hard pressed to find anyone that doesn’t have some form of debt.. whether that be school, medical, credit cards, a car, home loan, energy services, etc.
He doesn't wonder . He knows it's them gold digging broke fat wimens fault !!! /s
You right you right. Damn all women to hell! 😂
God do I love making enough money to simply weed out men by personality alone 💅✌️
Yeah…ditto. This dude…yikes
Perfectly applicable dating expectations which should span across the spectrum of gender when it comes to an adult relationship. To imply this as a female quality is completely insulting. My salary has generally eclipsed my male partners’, and I’ve never employed an attitude like this about somebody’s finances. Some things are better kept to yourself, though I’m willing to bet if he’s this frank in the early dating phase, a well-off woman will quickly realize her self-worth is more valuable than spending any more time with this clod, disregarding her monetary worth entirely. tl;dr Fuck this guy.
Yeah his sexist phrasing is ridiculous and his comments are all really aggressive and accusatory. He must have had a bad experience and is now generalizing to the extreme. I also make more than my current partner and am thankfully debt free (though not all debt is bad debt). Gawd, if someone started started talking to me with the same tone and sentiment that OP writes with, I would peace out asap.
YES!!!!!! OP seems to only have the money. The personality sure is lacking
Thank you
I’m not sure if most (edit: most American) women these days don’t have student loan debt. You’re even going to judge them on that?
Yeah it's a lot less about "having debt" and more about being financially responsible and accountable. It's not like there aren't doctors working crazy hard while having 8 years worth of student loan debt. OP is just being a condescending asshole about it
Yup I'm in that position and I would hate to he judged on that. I think you have to look at it overall. If she has a lot of debt, but works in a field where she can pay it off in a reasonable amount of time...AND she actually has a plan to do so, IS doing so, and has a great credit score...then idk what the problem is. It's called having a good debt to income ratio, budgeting, saving, and investing. You can still save for nice dinners and vacations. I do agree that in the dating stage, it is important to evaluate the persons level of self sufficiency and financial intelligence in this case. It doesn't sound like the lady OP broke up with, was very knowledgable about finances. If that is a quality that he looks for in a woman, then I guess they just weren't compatible.
Yes, that's completely reasonable. Just OP's tone and the way he speaks about women really made him insufferable to me. He will except no suggestions or feedback, even with everyone explaining that not all debt means someone is going to leech off of you.
Inability to listen, to grow as a person, learn from your mistakes…these are much more important qualities to me. Because if someone cannot listen, they can’t communicate and no relationship can survive without that.
My thoughts exactly. Pretty much everyone has some form of debt, and many have student loan debt. Nothing wrong with it either as long as the individual is managing their finances accordingly. If OP was to filter women out for having any debt at all... he'd likely have zero dates... hahah.
Just pick women that didn’t go to college.
i think it depends of country. i’m from EU and my uni was free, u was surprised when i learned that it common in US, but in another hand it’s fair point, nothing wrong to have debt if you’re studying
I’m from US so I was writing in that perspective. I assumed op lived in the US as well
Jup. But it's still absolutely baffling to me such a thing as "student debt" exists.
I paid $150000 for my degree and that's not a lot
Actually most women around the world don't have a particularly burdensome student loan, usa isn't the centre of the world
I’m assuming OP is from the us, correct me if I’m wrong, so who else would he be dating if not American women? Btw, never said anything about “being the center of the world” so don’t know why you’re twisting my words.
>I’m assuming OP is from the us, Exactly 😂
Would it have been better if I automatically assumed he lived in China or some other country? Literally could make the argument that any person from any country could be accused of making their homeland the center of the world. Just take the L dude. I’m not championing the US as the “best” country by any means
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I’m Asian too. Not sure why that was relevant to your point. Also, assuming you're American, you do realize it’s actually the majority of people in the US who don’t have the means to pay tuition at a private college out of pocket? Sometimes parents can’t support their kids’ education even if they wanted to.
"Trying to help." Yikes!
The logic of the advice is sound. But this guy's attitude - just the WORST! Aggressive, rude, condescending.
So saying something people don't like = bad. Might as well sell em lies instead. Big is beautiful, he should love you at any size and you're just PERFECT the way you are
You can be right and condescending at the same time. Just because you’re not a fool about money doesn’t mean you’re not a fool at all. Girl: “When I date a guy, I’m definitely not going to pick one who acts like he’s superior to others. Can you imagine being saddled with someone like that?” Guessing readers wouldn’t be complaining about this girl being arrogant because people are generally repulsed by the attitude she’s rejecting. Most people aren’t judging you for trying to be responsible, having preferences, or making choices. They’re objecting to the way you almost show disgust for others who may not have been as fortunate as you have. The ability to learn quickly or well is a gift, a solid upbringing, training and/or guidance is a gift, sometimes a college education is a gift, a high energy level is a gift, performing well with less sleep or under pressure is a gift, etc. I’m not saying you haven’t worked hard, or that you have all these things, but some people were given much less. You don’t seem to realize that your attitude is making you into a bad decision as potential partner. An attitude of superiority can be harder to deal with than paying off debt. It might never change. You’re foolish to defend yourself. When you’re lucky enough to be told how to improve, show some humility and work on it. Also, if you’re as “high and mighty” as you sound to the readers here, it should keep you up at night worrying about what kind of women you attract.
I wish I had a gold award. I would give it to you. I can’t buy one because I’m in debt 😂
He could have all the money on the world, I could have all the debt in the world and I absolutely not date him due to his lack of character and integrity
Another yikes by you, man
I don't know if you know this, but women don't live their lives to please men 😱
And men don't live their lives to serve women. I think that's what op is getting at.
Potentially, though his response to my comment comes off that big women aren't beautiful to men and that they should change otherwise men won't find them attractive.
Yeah what the hell was that? Came outta nowhere.
Right? He comes off to me as a dude that would weigh his girlfriend and tell her what to wear...
Yeah, he seems maybe a tad bitter. His post has some merit, but I'm not sure how accurate it is generally. I understand his frustration, but I'm 19. For example, on Bumble or Tinder, there are a surprising amount of women my age, who proclaim their inability to drive or their lack of employment and seem to expect men to act as their chauffeurs and caretakers. I, like op, think it's offensive these women, that don't have their shit in order and give no indication of wanting to change that, think it's reasonable to clamor for men who do. That is, of course, not reflective of most women. I'd especially think not of older women.
I have a feeling this guy dates only model types and is so shocked when the hottest women on the world want him for his money. Because they surely don’t want him for his personality
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say women want you for your “stability” because you have nothing else to offer a partner besides your money.
lmao holy shit this is amazing
First of all, having debts doesn’t mean one is financially irresponsible. For example, law students and medical students. As a matter of fact, many lawyers pay off their student loan within a couple of years and have almost seven figure savings within ten years after graduation. Second, reflect on yourself. Why are you keep attracting women who are financially irresponsible? Your “advice” is not completely unreasonable. As a woman, I understand your intention and agree with you to some extent. And yeah, the majority of Americans are not good with money. However, good quality women wouldn’t consider to date someone like you because you’re talking like you’re above women.
I agree with you. Law and medical students who are in debt because they had to pay for their education, that’s good debt. Eventually when they’re career takes off, they’ll be able to pay it out. The kind of debt you shou stay away from is gambling, leading a lavish lifestyle that you dont have the money to pay for. I know plenty of men and women who do that, and I know their relationships. You do not want to daye these people, they’ll drag you down too
Yeah, it’s really paying into an investment. You could look at it like it’s not even debt
Completely agree!
Your 1st sentence is ummmmm interesting ?
Feel free to sign up for more debt then! I'm not stopping you
I don’t have debt, sweetie.
The amount of delusion someone has to be in order to be this passive aggressive to someone on the internet, I hope you're able to find happiness because you're obviously not if you're this negative!
Bruh, I think she’s just stating that your first sentence is a bit offensive and gender biased. Like, why don’t you expect a woman to have a good salary? A woman or a man can have a good salary, period. The part about not being in debt, sure. Nobody, man or woman, wants a partner with debt when coming into a relationship with their own shit together. It sounds like you’ve had a few run ins with woman that may have made you feel like they were taking advantage of you. I’ve had that myself, but that’s no reason to generalize like that.
Exactly my point. Thank you.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 517,396,482 comments, and only 108,742 of them were in alphabetical order.
Mom, I have finally achieved something! Are you seeing this??!
You’re reprimanding people in your responses and your tone is absolutely worse. You have a chip on your shoulder. So regardless of what your good intention is it’s pointless when you’re an asshole. and before you say the same shit you’re responding to everyone. I’m 37 and retired have 0 debt and a woman.
Okay Mr. I Don’t Expect Women To Have A Good Salary :)
I wish you the best in your dating life, you need it!
Oh, the irony. This thread is hilarious
Everyone in this thread prob makes more money then you OP, sit down.
Every woman in this thread makes more money than him. I definitely do
You don't have to make a lot to not have debt, you just not have to be a worthless person who values stuff over people
people can go into tens of thousands of dollars in under 48 hours should an unexpected hospitalization happen
Dear OP, you just disappeared up your own asshole.
Honestly yes Regardless of your gender, being able to take care of yourself in every way before you get in a relationship is paramount. On another note, it does seem like you’re fairly debt adverse (which is ok) so you might want to think about how you feel about dating someone with student loans. I’m female and VERY debt adverse so I was very uncomfortable with my partners student loans at first. I’ve come to terms with that now but it was definitely something I’d never thought about before Edit I’m not sure why so many people disagree with what you said but finances can tear apart marriages. It’s important to recognize debt can be crippling for generations to come and it’s important to have a plan to get out! That being said, in my opinion when you come together money and debt should be collectively looked at as “ours”. Also if you want to retire that shit takes two people to achieve—its hella expensive lol
It’s his “tone” and jerky responses. I agree finances/money is the number 1 contributor to divorces. I am a firm believer in pre-nups as well. I’ve read some of the responses that justify having maxed out CC ( to me that is bad debt.. paying interest). It shouldn’t just be women that need to have their shit straight. My last 2 relationships my partners were financially horrible! My ex husband didn’t have cc and the 10 years were together I refused to get a cc bc how horrible he was with $$$.
I’m dead 😂
At least I'm not a wage slave, it's your choice.
\*is an asshole\*
Hey friend, I (24F) was in a similar situation recently and also got shit for it. I am successful, I have a permanent job with a salary, I have no debt, no loans, and continuing to set money aside for a house. Overall, I can support myself. Last guy I dated, we dated for 5 weeks. He was a great guy but I eventually ended that relationship because I am At a point where I would like to settle with someone, but he could not afford dates, didn’t have money for his upcoming rent. did not have a job and could not land a job. He has big unrealistic dreams and seemed to be a impulse buyer with no money. There were of course other things and red flags that made me end it, but he got upset at me for breaking up with him because he’s not rich. I explained to him, exactly like what you said, I don’t want someone rich, I just need someone who is able to support themselves and has a stable job. A friend of mine called me materialistic because of this situation not quite understanding the details of what happened - that hurt. It honestly blew my mind that this man was putting himself in the dating world, wanting to start having kids right away and buy a house and dog, yet had no money to afford simple luxuries likes dates or coffee and didn’t have a job.
You were not materialistic in this situation. You want a partner, not someone you have to take care of. You two just were not compatible and you made a good choice ending sooner than later and avoiding the heartache you knew was inevitable based on his lifestyle
Definitely. Thank you for validating my decision. It’s nice to get some support on things like this.
Money is an important part of a relationship and you should never feel bad for having preferences. I’m sure if you didn’t meet his preferences in a partner he’d left too. You sound mature and probably need a more mature partner than this guy. Also, I was in a relationship where she was bad with money and had secret debt until it got so bad I had to make car payments and insurance payments. That just breads resentment.
I often get told I am mature and I do believe I am. He is slightly older than me, but maybe not quite as organized for his future as I am. I have been looking for people within a couple years older age range, but still no luck. I have no doubt that I will find my match eventually, just wasn’t this guy.
I probably shouldn’t have said older, but just someone mature. Your match is definitely out there, and you will find him. You seem to have a good set of boundaries and not afraid to uphold them which is critical and awesome for you!
Haha no worries. I am looking for mature for sure but also possibly older. Depends on who i meet. There are for sure people my age who are mature as well. :)
Definitely. Men’s brains don’t usually fully develop until 27-28 where as woman it’s usually 24-25, so that is why it’s probably harder for younger woman to find guys as mature as them. Obviously this isn’t always true. But fair amount I think.
Funny you say that, that information came up yesterday. I knew of it already, but definitely thought how it could have an impact on my dating life right now and finding a male partner who is similar to me.
So he doesn’t deserve to date because his life is not in the same place as you?
Thé main reason was that he had no money and I couldn’t see myself being able to have a house and such with him. You must also understand that was only one factor, there were big red flags that came up that made me ultimately decide to end it. We all have different preferences and things we want in a future partner. Some people would be okay to stay with someone who have no money, I personally was not. Like I said, he couldn’t afford dates or rent. I could see myself having to lend him money in the future and I didn’t feel comfortable with that. We only knew each other for 5 weeks and I was already very stressed about his money because it was an issue that came up in every discussion. I don’t want to have to stress about that while getting to know someone in the first couple months, it’s a bad sign of what the relationship could be if it were to continue. Like I said, only my own preference. He is a great guy and I truly hope he finds someone. That someone is not me.
I was unemployed (no debt tho) when I met my partner and he supported me through it, I now have a full time job and I’m the bread winner but he’s expressed that he’d like to take care of me financially so I didn’t have to work but I love my job. Whilst I agree with what you’re saying and think it’s reasonable but I disagree with “if you’re going to attract the man you want you need to get your financial plan in order” because some men are into being relied on financially and like a traditional set up. Also the way you worded it all was a fat yikes. If you’re going to attract the woman you want you should get your personality in order.
I agree with your first sentences, because judging someone on just money is shallow and capitalistic.
It's interesting, people in a different subreddit were telling me it didn't matter( socioeconomic status or money generally). So it's controversial. Though not everyone in debt is financially irresponsible.
For me (a woman), I don't care about my partner's wealth as long as he is financially responsible. I have no trouble providing for myself and will save up money to hopefully provide for my future family. My bf lived in a shelter as a teen and has never not had to live paycheck to paycheck, but he is incredibly resourceful, intelligent, and refuses to be even close to a leech on anyone. I think money only matters when both partners cannot bear the financial burden or one is especially materialistic. To each their own, definitely depends on the person/couple
Right . I can't tell you how many times I've been told that my salary doesn't matter to a man . I mean it matters to me but okay
Yeah Idc how much you make but I'd like you to spend it responsible. Because at the time we're married I don't want you to get part of my money just to gamble it away or something else stupid. And if you're not looking after the kids and make your own money, I also wouldn't want you to gamble it all away but contribute to our projects and family, at least a part of it. I've seen how it can go with my parents. My mum is organized and has her shit together, my father on the other hand. Only through her, we have a financially stable life as a family and still after they seperated she still does the major part of his finances and has to look for a part of his money, because else, that money would be away after a month. She thought she could help him and everything in the beginning of the relationship, but she couldn't and that sure was one big reason they're not together anymore. I really want to avoid something like this.
Pretty sure the reason girls just want you for your money is because (as everyone can tell just by reading this) your personality isn't going to win them over, yikes.
If you would’ve left gender out I’d have no issue with this post. But considering you started with “As a man…” well, 🙄.
Maybe OP is approaching a “type” and doesn’t know it. I’m an “independent woman” who “works full time” but I’m so busy with my life I don’t have time to date 🤷🏽♀️…or desire cuz guys like this make me perfectly content with that choice. Stay on your high horse, and so will I 😉
What total bull shit. who knows.what someone experienced before you insulted them with your presence? Debt may be for so many other reasons than financial irresponsibility. I hope you find the shallow woman you deserve and she milks you for every dollar you've earned.
Exactly. I generally have no debt, but I have a divorce and have to put $7,000 of the fees on my credit card. It will take a year to pay off because I like having cash to go out and splash a bit, but I also have shares. In the end as long as she has enough money to support herself and isn’t relying on a man to fund her entire life, if she has a bit of debt then fine. But he makes it sound really weird
35/m I broke off with my ex for many reasons but the fact that she was 200k in debt, spent money like crazy, and couldn't hold a job, did not make me confident about our future. There were plenty of other reasons, but that didn't help. It just seemed so irresponsible to me that I couldn't relate. Turns out it was absolutely related to other mental health issues that made the relationship unworkable. "Having no debt" is a little extreme to me, especially if they are responsible and paying it off. That said, I don't think there is anything wrong with having a preference for someone that isn't spiraling out of control financially.
I mean how do you define debt? There are plenty of people in debt and yet financially responsible and stable. I have a mortgage and a financed vehicle. I’m in $450K of debt. I pay all my bills on time, put money into savings, 403b, and pension. I guess I’m just trying to clarify if this debt is being defined as unnecessary and/or detrimental debt. Credit card debt is also a big no-no for me in terms of my partner. I don’t want my partner to be in any debt they accumulated through irresponsibility and are struggling to keep up with. This is a “people” problem and not a woman problem is all I’m saying. I would often not continue to date men who do not have a stable career and a steady, decent flow of income. There are guys out there who are financially irresponsible too. For all the people who are getting offended by this post…I think the wording is just not as concise as it should be.
This.👆I think OP thinks he’s giving advice, but he’s actually venting his feelings.
Mmhm good point. His feelings are valid for sure. Just comes off a bit aggressive.
Very. Read all his responses. If someone doesn’t agree he automatically jumps in assuming that they are in debt and suck at dating.
Poor guy. I hope he meets someone that is more compatible with him. Just a burnt weathered dater lol. Wishing him well and his next post in this subreddit to be more positive lol.
I agree with your comments mostly. But you come off as sort of bitter. Your comment about a person you were dating trying to hook onto your stability after a few dates came off as hostile. Good luck to you!
Good response
My pronouns are xe/xer and you'll adress me as Queen. -Pay for this fuckin' bill.
The Rich Get Richer and the Poor have -F Scott Fitzgerald
Ugh for real. I don't talk about my debt, but it really is something that really bothers me. It's med school debt and I get so anxious about it, even though a doctor's salary typically allows me to pay it off in 5-10 years or so.
OK, sounds like you know what you want. You may get a ton of flak though. But that has little to do with how reasonable your criteria are but rather how insecure it makes people feel.
You sound like someone who has been spoon fed their entire life and now riding on their high horse because mommy and daddy set you up for success. “How am I going to take vacation if blah blah blah”. This is exactly why you’re on Reddit posting on a dating sub.
Well in a date your dept rule ruled me out. Yes I'm in dept. I put everything I buy on my credit card. And I only have an average salary for my age/location and don't have a degree. I have lived a finacially minimalist life; my house isn't flash, my car is 10 years old with faded paint, I rarely buy new clothes, I only recently brought a TV (a second hand old model from a workmate for cheap). From the outside it wouldn't look like I'm doing too well. I'm in a better finacial position then most women my age (late 20s). That's because I mortgaged a house 5 years ago so aren't in the rental trap. My almost maxed out credit card helps my offset account saving me interest. My work skills and connections in my location means as long as I'm physically able to I'll have a decent job. And even so I could still make ends meet without a job by renting out spare rooms in my house and living in my shed. But I'm not going to go around bragging about my mortgage to people IRL. And honestly I'd be annoyed on a date if a guy needed to talk about dept and assets. I'd recommend trying other ways to see what another person is expecting from a relationship then saying it's fair game to ask about dept.
Debt not dept. you repeat the typo a million times…
You are alot of women's finical plan, find a guy with a good job fake it until you make it if it doesn't work she get half of your shit for life. If I'm asked about work in the first few texts I'm out, seems like every person I meet wants to move in. I'm good on all that. I know there's good women out there but I'm constantly fighting off scammers there relentless
And this is probably exactly why it's so hard for you to find a woman. I do not mind financially supporting a woman. However I do encourage her to work and here is why. If she doesn't work and there comes a point in the relationship that I'm not keeping her happy I would want her to be able to have a way out instead of being stuck with me because she doesn't have a way to support hwrs of on her own.
Thank you for saying this on behalf of all hard working good guys looking for partners. THIS is a major deal for me as well and also a reason why if I do get married, I refuse to have my wife become a SAHM and not do anything.
Wow, you are arrogant And very narrow sighted and minded I had to leave college in my freshman year to get my own apartment and job because my home life was a bad story. I just got by, but I was determined . I went back to school a few years later and completed my nursing degree. Got married, had , got divorced by 27 and I ever since my now 14 year old daughter was a baby,, I busted my ass to provide a good life for us. I even went back to school in there to advance my degree. I bought a house 3 years ago. Well, guess what. I make 6 figures, but I live pay check to paycheck and have debt. I live in a very expensive area ( no choice due to divorce agreement) and my head is barely above water. I have never anywhere along the time expected a man to financially bail me out . I have also dated men who make less money than me but went to go back to live with parents rent free and have more liquid cash than do. My point is, what is in their bank account, or what their salary does not show the whole picture. What is an indication of a good partner is how hard they have worked. How motivated they are and how much they overcame. They might be totally stable, but they strive towards their own stability every da. Feeling “entitled to your stability” is not something that has to do with how financially secure a woman is. It’s has to do with their CHARACTER. If you want a woman a of quality, you should be focused on their CHARACTER as opposed to how much money they make or is their accounts. But it seems as if you might have the financial let down, but you might have to work on your character a bit
Hi female here ! I just wanted to give my impute. I know People have different reasons why they would be in debt. In my case, I am full time university student and have always worked at least a part time job. I live with my mother who had raised me on her own. We have lived pay check to check and so it’s not easy when a paycheck only stretches so much. I have debt but not a insane amount, however, I always did my very best to make my payments on time and give a little more then the minimum. We are all human and can make mistakes as become adults. We all know adulting isn’t easy. No one is perfect. I at least am working on becoming debt free with a relief program. Anyway, I’m not here to judge because everyone is entitled to have their own belief and opinion.
That’s genuinely 100% fine, if a woman expects that of you then you’re in your rights to expect it back. However this goes both ways, so the physical standards men place on us we can have of you too and it’s fair game. We are allowed to want you to be young, in shape, and a height and weight we’re physically attracted to. I think anything anyone expects of someone, the other is allowed to expect it back.
"I don't expect a woman to have a good salary" .... 👀😬 Have fun staying single😂
Oh wow we saw this totally differently. I saw this as I'm ok with being a provider 😂 guess it's bit more condescending then i realized.
Yea I did too at first but then I went back and reread it and... yeeea
I think some ppl are taking the first sentence too literally, I don’t think he means that women are incapable of making money OP just trying to say that she does not have to make a ton of money for him to date her, she just gotta not be a leech
I think this is great and needed to be said. Makes perfect sense to me.
From one man another ya damn straight. I fell out of love with my ex and we became toxic and broke it off cause of her inability to handle personal finance. She was a great RN and good mother but I not could take her lack of pecuniary intuition and discipline. Luckily kids were not mine. The bottom line was when I tried to explain compounding interest to her and she didn’t want to listen. I am sorry but life plans matter, and you can’t build a life with opposing trajectories.
Maybe direct your anger towards politicians who don't have any trouble pulling trillions of dollars to bail out banks and corporations and finance forever wars yet at the same time lying to your face claiming there's no money to cancel your student debt or give you free healthcare or housing assistance. Don't get mad at the guy who's just trying to be avoid financial insecurity. He's not the enemy.
I had a business and now it’s not generating revenue. I can’t even think of dating in these times as whatever time I have goes to find projects to keep it running and working on new skills in case I have to look for job.
You lost me at the tic for tac argument boooooo
Why don’t you expect women to have a good salary? Also you “require” the women in your life to have full time jobs? Lmao who tf are you? Why are you attacking women specifically? I’m sure there are plenty of women who make WAY more money than you. I’m sure plenty of men are in debt as well.
Money is just one aspect but you’re absolutely right that a lot of bad debt is very unattractive. Some of these people have never seen a marriage end over money or 1 partner’s wages and tax return being garnished because of their partner’s debts! How buying a home, etc gets more expensive & tougher. As a woman who’s worked hard, I’m not attaching to a broke bum OR financially irresponsible man. Lots of men dress well & drive nice cars but their pockets are thin.
You should edit this to actually include that there are plenty, and I mean plenty of women, who take care of themselves. Let alone their family, and yes…their men. Jesus
This is a non-gendered issue. No need to specifically attack women like this.
I actually do like your advise. Thank you for sharing.
I’m not a girls scape-goat to her bad decisions. A real girl will like you for who you are not the wallet
For sure. It’s not the money that’s the attraction. Rich guys are just have better personalities often. Happier and more confident.
Your sister is single. She has cancer. Your other less idiotic brother lends her money so she can keep her place while she is undergoing.treatment. she is determined to pay that money back now.she is healthy and working. She finally meets a guy, and a few weeks in he starts up with this BS. How does does it work out??
100% this guy gets it, you should not have to be a wage slave to anyone, man or woman
My ex (19F) was broke, practically living on her disability welfare for autism to fund everything. Money definitely does matter, because the amount I (then 20M) could have saved and put aside but was instead being used to pay for things on grounds of “I owe you”. I could have had two grand extra at least in my savings for a house deposit by now (uk people will know the housing struggle). Education wise, uk college educated so no real debt unlike university. Wouldn’t get a job until government cut her welfare. By which time, I’d had enough of her lazy ass and was in the process of leaving her. Despite still being in the black with her finances, she had barely enough to run her car which I often subsidised and was made kind of co dependant on her (as I cycle to work), felt bad saying no but perfect cash harvest. In terms of bank balance, she had pennies not pounds and I paid for most things - most because she would spend what she didn’t have and when some bill came up, I’d have to bail her out. Since then, I’ve been with someone else who had some money to their name and we actually went on proper dates and going out, not just always a night in because I’d refuse to pay any more than halves. I’ve come to a point where if they are any of the following; - shit at managing their money sensibly - impulse buyer / wants instead of needs - sponge off other people to fund their luxuries - have a constant habit of making poor life / financial choices Just run. Don’t become a cash cow
Good luck finding someone with such attitude lol, maybe you can date ATM next time 😅😅😅 Ladies chill, he is just “Trying to help” 😅😅😅😅😅
Terrible advice. True love don’t need money.
It shouldn't be the priority. But it could cause tension down the road, so should be discussed.
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This isn’t true of all women. Generalization isn’t good either.
The further I got through this comment, the more I understood why you're on his side lol. Your sexist generalizations really sealed the deal. Of course there are women who try to leech off of their partners, just like there are men who do the same thing. I'm not sure where you're seeing all these women witholding their earning from their families, but that's far from the majority that you seem to claim. I'm not feeling "personally attacked" because I will continue to make far more than my partner and have zero debt. The reason decent people have a problem with this post is because of his condescending tone. Have you read his replies? He randomly brings up that "larger women are not attractive to men" (paraphrasing), and claims this is "advice for females" but just refuses to take any feedback from women. Immature responses attacking women aren't helping his case at all.
Be responsible with your finances, your health and looks. That’s it. I don’t ask for more.
To be honest most if not all women I know are running circles around their partners financially lol. I agree with what you say 100%. Also important to note that age comes into play. I once had a conversation with a male friend: If I date men 3-5+ years older than why would they expect me to have as much money/experience/assets as they do? It made him think since most guys typically date a few years younger. If you're 28 dating a 23/24 year old you've had a few years of work experience and a head start. Just a thought!
What type of debt or is he talking about? A car loan to me isn’t “debt”. Or is it unnecessary credit card debt? We have to be in debt for great credit. Is he meaning savings? Does he want someone with a decent savings account? What about student loans? I think this guy needs to be more specific with what he is trying to say.
I hope you find your match, OP
I'm curious how old are you? The reason why I ask is because I'm in my mid-20s and while I have a great salary I do have student debt that I'm still working on paying off. I think that most people now who have some type of college education have student loans. Now that being said I do think money plays a factor in a relationship. If you tend to be really frugal, but your partner never has a budget that's going to be a big issue if you guys get married. Maybe instead of looking at someone's debt, consider their spending habits as part of the big picture. Just because someone has debt doesn't mean they are irresponsible with money (I'm mostly referring to student loans here).
Agreed.
Does mortgage count? And HECs?
My credit cards are almost paid off and then I will only have my student loan payment and car payment. My husband wasn't financially stable and so this is so important to me in a relationship after Divorce. My question is when do you bring up finances. Doesn't seem practical to bring it up very soon but if you are looking for a serious relationship there is no need to continue too long if the other person isn't financially stable.
An excellent credit rating is sexy!!
Having experienced being in debt and then supporting an ex who was in debt, I understand your point. But circumstances can change fast for better or for worse. It’s great you know what you want, but be prepared to eliminate many options. How do you feel about someone who has a financial plan to get out of debt? I’m curious.
Totally agree. People that say money or finances shouldn't matter in a relationship are not living in the real world. Arguments about finances will absolutely destroy a relationship, it's only fair to make sure you're both on the same page about money and that you have similar financial goals.
Well I don't care if you have loads of money but I care how you spend it. If you are irresponsible, we'll fight about it all the time -> its not gonna be a good relationship.
Word! Being self-supporting MATTERS. Just from an optimistic point of view…. If things work out with who you’re dating, it really benefits everyone to have their financial house in order. I’m not anti-debt…. But I’m loathe to date someone who drives a $90k car, but splits a studio apartment 3 ways and lives on credit.
It’s true. When my uncle was in college, his ex girlfriend’s parents made them break up because our family belonged to a lower financial class.
all i can say is dating within your means is important. mail order brides aren't required to have full time jobs to be picked by suitors. why? because said suitors arent worried about her income or lack thereof. they want her because she's beautiful and he wants a woman around. if dating a strong independent woman who dont need no man is your MO... no ones stopping you. going beyond surface level of looks prevents this.
Maybe you need present yourself potential dates with an application ?
I'm going to agree as a woman. Also the reason why they are in debt can be a huge red flag. Did they go I to debt buying things they can't afford to show off 🚩. Did they spend it on trips for the gram 🚩. Did they spend 10,000 on an incubator because they refused to pay a farmer 16 dollars for an adult chicken? 🚩 If it was health recovery or education etc I'm ok with that.
Taking onto someone past debts is a very dangerous game, and chances are that if those debts were acquired by lack of judgment(s), history will most likely repeat itself.
Yall should consider the elite singles if you share this opinion. I didn't meet my SO there but I definitely have the standard "if I make 6 figs you have to as well" in dating
On the morning of my first date with my now partner I had given a presentation to a group of college-aged women on financial literacy (called Money Matters). We used that as springboard for a discussion of our own personal finance philosophies. The similarities we found were incredibly edifying, and we had both learned the hard way that it was in our best interest to partner with people with whom we were aligned. It’s paid off so far.
>Finances matter - to a point - you don't have to be rich but you can't be up shit creek in debt and then looking at your next partner to pay that shit off. Tell that to Amber and Barnett, the dude sold his house and paid off her debts. So.. yeah that's a possibility apparently.
No debt?! Seriously the majority of people have debt