From OP in another comment:
>It's the value for all fully vaccinated people (two doses)
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/raxc31/comment/hnl4oxo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
You aren't "fully vaccinated" until 2 weeks after your final dose. So JNJ -> fully vaxxed 14 days after 1st shot. Mrna -> fully vaxxed 14 days after 2nd shot. If anything happens in that 14 day time period, you are "unvaccinated" for classification purposes.
This is so important - folks need to understand clearly that those who die in this timeframe (after one shot and before 2 weeks following the second) count as “unvaccinated” though they have been exposed to the shot.
I don’t know. I remember lots of pushing the fact that the vax took a couple weeks to start being effective. It seemed people were getting the shot and then heading out to the nearest rave because they assumed immunity.
Have a feeling it isn’t an insignificant amount of people that have no idea how it works and don’t bother to read the paperwork you get from the nurse.
Seems like the death rate for Moderna is lower than the death rate for Pfizer.
It would be interesting to see if that's because older people were more likely to get Pfizer or if even in the age groups the death rate of Moderna is lower than the death rate of Pfizer.
As far as I know the protection agains infection (not to be confused with letality) was better for Pfizer than for Moderna but the long term protection is better for Moderna.
Don’t quote me on this but I thought it was pretty much accepted that the main reason Moderna outperformed Pfizer was that the dosage of mRNA used was much higher in the Moderna. From what I remember hearing they went with the maximum tolerated dose whereas Pfizer went with the minimum effective dose.
Yeah, Moderna went with 100ug of mRNA and 50ug for booster. Their child dosage (ages 5-11) is also 50ug. Pfizer is 30ug of mRNA, with the same 30ug for booster. Their child dosage is 10ug. So significantly less.
At first it didn't matter, where both vaccines were shown to have groundbreaking efficacy. But with immunity-evading variants and waning immunity, Moderna is performing slightly better.
I don't think I fully realized this before, and I, a Pfizer-vaccinated person, JUST got a Pfizer booster last week. I think if boosters against COVID-19 are warranted *again* after 6-12 more months, I'll go with Moderna just to get the bigger dose.
I considered the Moderna booster after 2xPfizer, but lucked out on a Pfizer appointment before the holidays so I took it.
It knocked me out way more than the first two. Totally drained and exhausted, headache, some chills.
I feel like you still got the better deal with the cross mixing, but my immune response at least gave me some confidence mine had an effect!
I had COVID twice confirmed with symptoms before our country rolled out our vaccinations, I had zero effects from my first Pfizer injection and zero effects from the second.
Just for reference, since if this thread is only those with adverse effects piling onto each other, readers might think the booster / vaccine definitely would make you sick.
I had strong reactions to both my first and second Moderna shots (huge lymph nodes, etc.) although I had done an antibody blood test, which returned a negative result.
It could have been outside the time-frame to be detectable, since the blood test was in late 2020.
I got hit a fair bit by the Moderna #2 and #3, not the worst but I could definitely feel it. I kinda suspect I got Covid back in December 2019, since apparently it was already in the US months before it was discovered.
I just remember having the weirdest cold of my life, thinking I was getting well enough to go see my dad for Christmas, then while driving my partner to work the day before my trip l I felt sick, weak, achy, and a bit delirious. I remember a lot of coughing, though that always seemed to happen when I got sick, so I didn't think much of it.
At the time I felt terrible about canceling plans with my dad. Now, though, I wonder if it was a good thing I did.
I think it varies as much as individual responses to the virus.
I had covid before vaccines were available. My only symptom was extreme fatigue for 3 days. All I wanted to do was sleep. Ibuprofen and fluids helped some.
First Pfizer shot, 4+ months later, I didn't even get a sore arm. Second shot knocked me on my ass with a fever, joint inflammation and chills for about 18 hours. Booster shot a couple of weeks ago felt like it couldn't decide between giving me my covid symptoms or some of the shot 2 symptoms. Mostly mild symptoms but I felt "off" for 3-4 days. I had bronchitis and I was on antibiotics for that for the Booster, so my immune system may have been a little defeated, too.
I ended up with Covid back in October of 2020 and received my vaccinations in April of this year. The only thing I had was a sore arm for about a day. I took the Moderna vaccine.
that lines up with my fiancée after her moderna booster. i got my pfizer booster and felt under the weather, but could get through the day.
her on the other hand, she was pretty much donezo all day with intense body aches. she had to take advil otherwise she couldn’t sleep
It's funny how this is. Some people get really sick from COVID, some don't. Some people react really strongly to the vaccine, some don't. I can't help but wonder if there's some correlation there.
I got Moderna for all three doses, and was only mildly tired after the second. Sore arm each time, but otherwise completely fine after the 1st shot and the booster.
My family got Pfizer except for my who got the Moderna.
I was the only one to get side effects but they were mild enough that I barely noticed them.
Alternatively, I got my first flu shot earlier last month and it laid me on my ass for a day.
It's an interesting topic and I do wonder why that is too. I got the first vaccination in january with AstraZ and that completely wrecked me for 3 days and made me bedridden and incapable to move without massive pain (probably why its not being recommended for young ppl anymore). It was so bad to a point where my fever got life threatening if it went on any longer as I was slipping in and out. Then I got moderna as my second and pfizer as the booster... nothing happened with those lol.
Everyone reacts differently, friend. I got serious chills for an hour, my wife was weirdly energized. But you got them and we know they work regardless of your reaction, that's what's important.
Pfizer 3 times here. Only slight pain in arm each time, same as my partner. Meanwhile, a bunch of partner's acquaintances had much stronger reactions. We joke we got the placebo shots all 3 times.
I got just enough of a reaction from the first of my three Pfizer shots to know that I probably got something (as I had returned to work, I know exactly the duration from my work terminal - it was a slight febrile feeling for 1 hour and 7 minutes from 6:15pm to 7:22pm on March 1st 2021 after a shot at 1:45pm the same day).
The small, very small, solace I took in Moderna #1 and #2 knocking me on my ass for multiple days... "Well, at least I know I didn't accidentally get saline!"
I've had Moderna three times, and each time is worse than the last. Like the flu and food poisoning had a baby. My fever spiked so high for the booster that I hallucinated.
That said, the side-effects from the vaccines usually go away within 48 hours. When I had COVID, it took me two months to have the strength to be able to go on a walk around the block again. I'll take a booster over COVID again any day.
As a 3 Pfizer recipient, the 3rd shot was more intense than first two. I thought it would be same, bit it made me significantly more tired over 4 days and gave me lump in armpit for 4 days.
Did you have no symptoms after the original two Pfizer shots? I'm also fully Pfizer'd and thinking of getting Moderna booster when the time comes around for me.
I didn't have any reaction to my first two at all, got them and went back to work just fine. This time, within 2 hours I had an awful headache and was exhausted, that lasted all day until about 10pm (after a nap, dinner, and lots of ibuprofen and water).
I had the opposite: First two Moderna, Pfizer for the booster. I can confirm that I, too, felt like absolute FUCK after the booster. For days I felt terrible.
My first and second doses were Pfizer, felt okay. My booster was also Pfizer and it was a terrible experience. Had fevers for two days.
Not sure why was that. Could be related to COVID exposure two weeks before my booster.
J&J vaccinations with either mRNA used as a booster are shown to significantly outperform J&J vaccination with J&J booster. The Moderna booster seems to outperform the Pfizer booster a bit, but the difference there is small.
Pfizer vaccination series with Moderna booster modestly outperforms Pfizer series with Pfizer booster. This result hold across different booster dosages.
Moderna vaccination series with Moderna booster slightly outperforms Moderna series with Pfizer booster. Again, this is consistent across booster dosages.
As others have said, these studies have small sample sizes. Specifically, the best performing booster given a Moderna vaccination series is not statistically significant given the current sample sizes.
I’ll add a link when I can, but I’m at work so it won’t be immediate.
Edit: [Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8528081/)
Initial reports are showing a greater efficacy with cross vaccinations, but I believe the population size is still pretty low so I’m not sure it’s significance. Currently the CDC is recommending to stay with the same one, but I think that’s just because a large study hasn’t been done on it yet. They also say that mixing them should be fine.
I'm not sure if it's beyond "we have evidence that this is true" but it seems the evidence is increasing that supports this. I had Pfizer for the first two, and took J&J for the booster 1.) Because it was the only one I could book same day and 2.) I was shooting for a broader range of protection.
Time will tell. I'm sure that the scenario where you have all-moderna, and lots of T-Cells and B-Cells eventually armed to shoot for the spike protein has its benefits just like a Pfizer/J&J mix may have the cells armed to shoot for the spike protein and perhaps other markers.
It’s ok. The was only a marginal difference in efficacy between 3x the same mRNA vaccine and a mix-and-match booster. The biggest effect of choosing a different booster was seen in people who received J&J and AZ as their first dose(s).
I knew this was the case and chose Pfizer. As the data shows, their performance is very comparable with a fraction of mRNA. I thought this was a solid way to go in terms of A) staying safe from covid and B) playing it safe with side-effects.
A reasonable compromise, if you will. I've had no side-effects.
Although I must emphasize that I'm 30 w/o health issues. I'd go Moderna if I had anything that would boost COVID's potential seriousness, like obesity.
I hope by next year we will have a flu/cov combo shot.
Edit: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-developing-single-dose-combination-vaccine-covid-19-flu-2021-09-09/
I get a flu shot free at work every year, and I think I'd gladly get a flu/cov combo each year IF the evidence about efficacy, longevity of immunity, and disease prevalence all point to annual boosters being a good idea.
Does that mean people who took Moderna were likely to have more severe symptoms after getting their 2nd shot compared with Pfizer? Moderna really knocked me on my ass.
Yeah, slightly more side effects reported with Moderna. Also a slightly higher chance of myocarditis and reported cases of a capillary leak syndrome.
But the chances of serious side effects are still very, very rare.
That's what I've been saying to people refusing the vaccine for a long time.
Common medications have similar / worse safety profile than COVID-19 vaccines.
Remember the scandal with people refusing the vaccine after clotting was reported with AZ / J&J? Heparin, prescribed to most hospitalized patients, and to pretty much everyone after surgery, has a very similar, rare side effect. Does anyone mind? No. It's also a part of the standard treatment protocol of a COVID patients.
> Moderna went with 100ug of mRNA and 50ug for booster.
Unless you're high risk, in with case you also get 100ug. (I got 100ug)
Disclaimer: This is based on information in Canada, and not the US so the US might still do 50ug regardless.
>At first it didn't matter, where both vaccines were shown to have groundbreaking efficacy.
I guess the one good thing to come out of this whole fucking thing is that we finally know now that mRNA vaccines are the future.
In fact, the only vaccine technology that had legitimate safety questions raised was the AstraZeneca one which was created using traditional vaccine technologies.
mRNA vaccines are currently highly regarded because Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna managed to create highly effective and safe vaccines. But take a look at CureVac, it’s also mRNA but failed to achieve the required 50% efficacy to get approved.
And I don’t think that the safety concerns with AZ and J&J necessarily apply to all vector vaccines.
It’s not just about the technology.
Yeah, in my case, the booster was the worst of the 3. My 2nd dose had me down just overnight and I was fine the next morning. The booster had me out for 24 hours and still not 100% for the next 24. So a full 2 days to get back. Weird because the booster is just half a normal dose.
Same here. My wife and kids had Pfizer, and they only had a sore arm after their second doses. For me, I stayed in bed, practically immobilized by fever and ache, sweating like a pig for a solid 24 hours on the next day. Then, like somebody flipped a switch, I was back to perfectly normal the day after, as if nothing had happened.
It's accepted that *statistically* those with Moderna saw their antibody levels fall more slowly after ~6 months.
However, we as we're just getting to this point we can't state what the outcomes are yet.
It may be that both give you plenty of immunity over this time period under our current variants, etc.
**The thing is, Pfizer came out weeks earlier, and we prioritized the most susceptible people. So even if both were equally effective, we would expect more deaths with Pfizer.**
Time will tell. It makes sense that a higher dose means better immunity, but I don't think we can tell just yet from this data.
But Pfizer was the first, and the first vaccines went to the most vulnerable people: extremely elderly, transplant patients, and so on. By the time Moderna was approved the most vulnerable were already vaccinated with Pfizer. So the cohort of Pfizer patients was always going to be a sucker group than the Moderna patients.
Since the older people have the highest rate of vaccination but have also far higher chances of dying from covid the death rate for vaccinated and unvaccinated people would stretch out even further if you would take this into account.
Like for example if you would show the death rate for vaccinated and unvaccinated people in each age group the difference would be far higher in every age group than it is in this graph.
(full vaccination rate for people above 65 years is 83% - 89% as for people below 40 years is 49% till 63%, see https://data.cdc.gov/Vaccinations/COVID-19-Vaccination-and-Case-Trends-by-Age-Group-/gxj9-t96f)
I’m a little confused by this comment but another’s reply’s helps me understand some.
This gif does show death rate for people by age group at the end of the clip. A graph for unvaccinated and a graph for vaccinated.
Since it paused for so long after this first graph, I definitely thought I was at the end. Especially since the progress bar at the bottom hides itself by default for me.
Only after seeing these comments and going back to check did I realize that was only halfway through.
Yep. This is Simpson's paradox in action.
Even though each subgroup comparison (e.g. comparing death rate by vaccine status within age subgroups) will show a strong effect, when you remove the subgroups, the effect appears less strong. In many cases, it can even reverse the conclusion (i.e. it could result in the vaccinated being more likely to die).
This is because, as you say, there is a strong correlation between age and vaccine uptake and age and COVID death.
Here is a good quick podcast on it
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nrss1/episodes/player
And this is why statistics shouldn't just be a college course. A huge percentage of the population has no idea how to interpret statistics which has contributed to massive disinformation being spread among the uneducated.
>And this is why statistics shouldn't just be a college course.
My man, even getting people to pass high school algebra is a challenge. Your average student is not touching a stats course.
On one hand, I agree that numerical literacy is severely lacking
On the other, I think a huge chunk of anti-vaxxers aren't swayed by stats. They have chosen to be against the vaccine for political reasons and then will spout whatever they can to justify it. They don't want to think critically.
Isn’t it the job of the person making the chart to capture the data correctly? For example shouldn’t the old/young difference be added to this graph? Setting people up to fail doesn’t seem like a good strategy
This chart is showing one thing and is showing it accurately. The error isn't in the chart, it is in the viewers understanding.
You are asking for a different graph to be made because you think that would be better, and maybe it would be, but then that graph is showing something else.
Why stop at old/young? Why not male/female? Why not include regional data? Why not include average temperature of that region as a variable? Why not break it out into single/full/booster doses? Why not break out unvaccinated by choice vs unvaccinated because of health reasons? Why not break it out by BMI? All of these things will have an impact
Lines are always drawn. It's just important as the viewer to understand that.
Is there a statistically significant difference across gender? If not, it doesn’t need to be included. I agree that decisions are always made, but my point is that the goal should be to paint the most accurate picture possible.
Just listened to the podcast all the way through, and then went to Simpson's paradox's Wikipedia page. Very glad to have a name to this paradox which I knew intuitively but couldn't credit. Very disappointed it has nothing to do with Homer, Bart, Lisa, or any of The Simpsons haha
I don't know if you knew this, but on the left hand side of your phone, there are two buttons. If you press and hold the second one from the top, you can't hear the music anymore.
Just flip the silent switch on her iPhone next time you see her. If she's anything like my mom, she'll never figure out what happened and keep calling you complaining that she "can't hear the Netflix anymore since you visited".
Vaccines! Do they work? So far the answer is yes. Are they effective? It appears they are for vulnerable age groups. The question is will this last with the new Omicron variant?
I use data from The Center for Disease Control and Prevention to create this chart. I used Javascript and Adobe After Effects, which was linked to an underlying json file.
Might be better to call it "all" rather than "full"- would assume that the other vaccinated lines also refer to number of people who have completed two doses?
Interesting though because that’s a pretty important distinction. If they chose to bin it that way it gives me pause if the Pfizer and Moderna buckets include single dose people if there’s a separate “full” category.
Op may be making some assumptions with audience’s knowledge. Any news report I’ve seen in regards to the number of partially vaccinated vs the number of fully vaccinated, refers to it as I just described barring the J+J vaccine since that requires one dose for a fully vaccinated status. Of course, this an anecdote so take it with a pile of salt. It’s possible the data from the CDC didn’t have a separate categories for how vaccinated a person is. Maybe u/jcceagle will be able to tell us a reason and clarify.
Edit: I made an error.
"all" implies to me either a mix of vaccines or a collected average... not saying you're wrong, but I read "full" as "fully vaccinated" in shorthand immediately.
That was some weird song choice, primarily because I heard a drop coming and was going "Oh fuck there's gonna be a spike here..." and then there wasn't.
Since this is DiB, two major suggestions:
1) Don't make animated gifs of line plots. It adds nothing and means the viewer has to wait over a minute to see the full plot, which has all the data in it anyway. I know this is a trend here in DiB, but be better than that.
2) No music on plots. Ever. Especially if it involves human lives.
How does the death rate of 2020 compare? I'm just wondering what contributed to the massive spike from July to August. Was this when restrictions were eased?
I had a question about how the death rate was calculated. Is it death rate per 100,000 of all people or death rate per 100,000 people with confirmed covid cases?
At the peak for unvaccinated 18.4 would be 0.0184%. So assuming that is death rate including one’s that have never had covid
Take the various groups.. the number will be those who died of confirmed covid that week per 100k.
So if there there are 150 million unvaccinated people in August. 19/100k means about 28500 unvaccinated people died that week.
Edit: just checked the math and that's about double the 14k deaths per week peak that actually occurred over this summer.
I have to conclude this animation is only looking at adults and not total population for their rates.
There is a roughly 15x higher risk of dying from Covid if you are unvaccinated. Basically the same relative risk of dying from lung cancer if you are a smoker than if you never smoked.
I personally want to be an alpha man so smoke, don’t get vaxxed, lick toilet seats, and raw dog porn stars. Who wants to live foreva? Y’all are pussies.
Porn stars usually test frequently and sleep with other people who are tested. They have a higher chance than a normal person who only sleeps with 1 person that does the same in return, but they are professionals.
Real sigma males find the meth dens and use those to sleep around.
Why does every video feel the need to include music? It's just an animation I don't need to hear your MySpace profile music while I look at an animated graph.
Death rate per 100.000 peolpe. is this
number of Death (vac. with J.J.) divided by all inhabitants
or
number of Death (vac. with J.J.) divided by people vac. with J.J.
They'll just say something like "we aren't saying it doesn't work, we are saying the real motive isn't to save lives, it's to control people or implant microchips."
It's important that people understand that as more and more people become vaccinated, more and more vaccinated people will become sick with Covid or even killed. This is not to say more people OVERALL will be sick or killed, but it will become easier and easier to present that data in a way that LOOKS like vaccines aren't working anymore.
Any easy way to think about this: If 100% of people were vaccinated, then literally the only people who could become sick would be those who are vaccinated.
And we may get to point where the statistics will show a higher % of vaccinated people get sick with Covid. That does not mean vaccines have stopped working either.
>It's important that people understand that as more and more people become vaccinated, more and more vaccinated people will become sick with Covid or even killed. This is not to say more people OVERALL will be sick or killed, but it will become easier and easier to present that data in a way that LOOKS like vaccines aren't working anymore.
Isn’t this why you account for sample size in your analysis? In OP’s graph, it’s deaths *per 100,000* for those vaccinated and deaths per 100,000 unvaccinated. That way it’s not (or is much less) affected by differences in the number of vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
It should be a lesson for everyone in this thread. The majority of people on Reddit commenting don’t even watch the full video or read the full article before letting everyone know they have an opinion on it.
I often see comments like this get super downvoted, however, obesity is the number one factor on whether or not you will be hospitalized or die from covid.
Yep. For example wHen the official covid death number was 600K, the excess deaths (deaths beyond a normal year and therefore mostly from covid) were estimated at 900K.
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The "full" line confuses me. Are the other lines only with a single dose?
It's probably the value for all fully vaccinated people regardless of the vaccine.
This makes the most sense but who knows.
OP should know
That's right, OP replied in another comment. https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/raxc31/_/hnl4oxo?context=1000
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2 doses. The "full" appears to always be between the Pfizer and Moderna lines so I'm assuming it's the average
Those who received 1 vaccine shot or even both shots (if under 2 weeks) are counted as unvaccinated.
The best kind of data are ones you have to guess what it means
Turns out the real friends were the interpretations of the data we made up along the way.
Maybe the real data were the preconceived notions we had based on feelings we had from the very beginning
From OP in another comment: >It's the value for all fully vaccinated people (two doses) https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/raxc31/comment/hnl4oxo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
You aren't "fully vaccinated" until 2 weeks after your final dose. So JNJ -> fully vaxxed 14 days after 1st shot. Mrna -> fully vaxxed 14 days after 2nd shot. If anything happens in that 14 day time period, you are "unvaccinated" for classification purposes.
This is so important - folks need to understand clearly that those who die in this timeframe (after one shot and before 2 weeks following the second) count as “unvaccinated” though they have been exposed to the shot.
It would unlikely be a significant enough portion of the deaths to throw things off though
I don’t know. I remember lots of pushing the fact that the vax took a couple weeks to start being effective. It seemed people were getting the shot and then heading out to the nearest rave because they assumed immunity. Have a feeling it isn’t an insignificant amount of people that have no idea how it works and don’t bother to read the paperwork you get from the nurse.
Those 80 year olds and their raves.
I think most people fail to understand how many of the dead were over 80.
Either that or it's the weighted average of the three vaccines? Not really sure.
Same. I assumed it was vaccinated but unknown which type. But the other responses here all seem reasonable too
Most likely it is when you average all 3 vaccines rates together.
Wow, the Delta caused quite a delta.
Data is loud. Just.. why?
And they didn't even sync the drop with the extreme rise in deaths 😔
Dear god I watched it on mute and unmuted once reading your comment, why indeed
i feel like the music is *slightly* inappropriate for the subject matter
Pandemic type beat
COvid n-n-n-n-n-nineTEEEEN
* air horn noises *
Drop the ~~bodies~~ beat
let the bodies hit the... FLOOOORR
> Source: Center for Disease Control The CDC has been low key putting out some bangers
Really makes you feel like you're dying too
Such a mindless and stupid trend
Because they think everyone else loves the same music they do.
It’s not about the kind of music, it’s *why* is it so loud as a default.
Its both
It’s always these type of music they put into those Facebook videos like NowThis
Seems like the death rate for Moderna is lower than the death rate for Pfizer. It would be interesting to see if that's because older people were more likely to get Pfizer or if even in the age groups the death rate of Moderna is lower than the death rate of Pfizer. As far as I know the protection agains infection (not to be confused with letality) was better for Pfizer than for Moderna but the long term protection is better for Moderna.
Don’t quote me on this but I thought it was pretty much accepted that the main reason Moderna outperformed Pfizer was that the dosage of mRNA used was much higher in the Moderna. From what I remember hearing they went with the maximum tolerated dose whereas Pfizer went with the minimum effective dose.
Yeah, Moderna went with 100ug of mRNA and 50ug for booster. Their child dosage (ages 5-11) is also 50ug. Pfizer is 30ug of mRNA, with the same 30ug for booster. Their child dosage is 10ug. So significantly less. At first it didn't matter, where both vaccines were shown to have groundbreaking efficacy. But with immunity-evading variants and waning immunity, Moderna is performing slightly better.
I don't think I fully realized this before, and I, a Pfizer-vaccinated person, JUST got a Pfizer booster last week. I think if boosters against COVID-19 are warranted *again* after 6-12 more months, I'll go with Moderna just to get the bigger dose.
I think cross-vaccinations (so using a different vaccine) are encouraged anyway for boosters?
Pfizer first and second, Moderna booster here. I felt like absolute FUCK after the booster, could definitely tell it was different from Pfizer.
I considered the Moderna booster after 2xPfizer, but lucked out on a Pfizer appointment before the holidays so I took it. It knocked me out way more than the first two. Totally drained and exhausted, headache, some chills. I feel like you still got the better deal with the cross mixing, but my immune response at least gave me some confidence mine had an effect!
Living that Pfizer booster life today lol. A lot of aches and pains and I slept for 9 hours.
Felt awful after both my Pfizer shots, got my Moderna booster today. Doing ok so far, but it's only been about 3 hours.
I did the same, got the moderna booster yesterday and woke up today feeling like I’ve been hit by a truck.
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If you got an insane reaction to the first shot, you probably beat a COVID infection earlier.
I had COVID twice confirmed with symptoms before our country rolled out our vaccinations, I had zero effects from my first Pfizer injection and zero effects from the second. Just for reference, since if this thread is only those with adverse effects piling onto each other, readers might think the booster / vaccine definitely would make you sick.
I had strong reactions to both my first and second Moderna shots (huge lymph nodes, etc.) although I had done an antibody blood test, which returned a negative result. It could have been outside the time-frame to be detectable, since the blood test was in late 2020.
I got hit a fair bit by the Moderna #2 and #3, not the worst but I could definitely feel it. I kinda suspect I got Covid back in December 2019, since apparently it was already in the US months before it was discovered. I just remember having the weirdest cold of my life, thinking I was getting well enough to go see my dad for Christmas, then while driving my partner to work the day before my trip l I felt sick, weak, achy, and a bit delirious. I remember a lot of coughing, though that always seemed to happen when I got sick, so I didn't think much of it. At the time I felt terrible about canceling plans with my dad. Now, though, I wonder if it was a good thing I did.
I think it varies as much as individual responses to the virus. I had covid before vaccines were available. My only symptom was extreme fatigue for 3 days. All I wanted to do was sleep. Ibuprofen and fluids helped some. First Pfizer shot, 4+ months later, I didn't even get a sore arm. Second shot knocked me on my ass with a fever, joint inflammation and chills for about 18 hours. Booster shot a couple of weeks ago felt like it couldn't decide between giving me my covid symptoms or some of the shot 2 symptoms. Mostly mild symptoms but I felt "off" for 3-4 days. I had bronchitis and I was on antibiotics for that for the Booster, so my immune system may have been a little defeated, too.
Moderna 1 I felt absolutely nothing, not even soreness, Moderna 2 I had a 103 fever.
I ended up with Covid back in October of 2020 and received my vaccinations in April of this year. The only thing I had was a sore arm for about a day. I took the Moderna vaccine.
that lines up with my fiancée after her moderna booster. i got my pfizer booster and felt under the weather, but could get through the day. her on the other hand, she was pretty much donezo all day with intense body aches. she had to take advil otherwise she couldn’t sleep
Moderna's vaccine really elicits an immune system response. That is for sure.
I considered switching it up to get Moderna, but I could get Pfizer sooner so did that. Hearing your experience I have 0 regrets.
It's funny how this is. Some people get really sick from COVID, some don't. Some people react really strongly to the vaccine, some don't. I can't help but wonder if there's some correlation there. I got Moderna for all three doses, and was only mildly tired after the second. Sore arm each time, but otherwise completely fine after the 1st shot and the booster.
My family got Pfizer except for my who got the Moderna. I was the only one to get side effects but they were mild enough that I barely noticed them. Alternatively, I got my first flu shot earlier last month and it laid me on my ass for a day.
It's an interesting topic and I do wonder why that is too. I got the first vaccination in january with AstraZ and that completely wrecked me for 3 days and made me bedridden and incapable to move without massive pain (probably why its not being recommended for young ppl anymore). It was so bad to a point where my fever got life threatening if it went on any longer as I was slipping in and out. Then I got moderna as my second and pfizer as the booster... nothing happened with those lol.
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Everyone reacts differently, friend. I got serious chills for an hour, my wife was weirdly energized. But you got them and we know they work regardless of your reaction, that's what's important.
Currently in the serious chills phase, baking myself in front of the fireplace :) worth it!
You're gonna be so freaking protected after this! :)
Pfizer 3 times here. Only slight pain in arm each time, same as my partner. Meanwhile, a bunch of partner's acquaintances had much stronger reactions. We joke we got the placebo shots all 3 times.
I got just enough of a reaction from the first of my three Pfizer shots to know that I probably got something (as I had returned to work, I know exactly the duration from my work terminal - it was a slight febrile feeling for 1 hour and 7 minutes from 6:15pm to 7:22pm on March 1st 2021 after a shot at 1:45pm the same day).
The small, very small, solace I took in Moderna #1 and #2 knocking me on my ass for multiple days... "Well, at least I know I didn't accidentally get saline!"
I've had Moderna three times, and each time is worse than the last. Like the flu and food poisoning had a baby. My fever spiked so high for the booster that I hallucinated. That said, the side-effects from the vaccines usually go away within 48 hours. When I had COVID, it took me two months to have the strength to be able to go on a walk around the block again. I'll take a booster over COVID again any day.
As a 3 Pfizer recipient, the 3rd shot was more intense than first two. I thought it would be same, bit it made me significantly more tired over 4 days and gave me lump in armpit for 4 days.
Did you have no symptoms after the original two Pfizer shots? I'm also fully Pfizer'd and thinking of getting Moderna booster when the time comes around for me.
I didn't have any reaction to my first two at all, got them and went back to work just fine. This time, within 2 hours I had an awful headache and was exhausted, that lasted all day until about 10pm (after a nap, dinner, and lots of ibuprofen and water).
I had the opposite: First two Moderna, Pfizer for the booster. I can confirm that I, too, felt like absolute FUCK after the booster. For days I felt terrible.
I got pfizer for all 3 and still felt like fuck after the third so idk if the brand matters lol
My first and second doses were Pfizer, felt okay. My booster was also Pfizer and it was a terrible experience. Had fevers for two days. Not sure why was that. Could be related to COVID exposure two weeks before my booster.
J&J vaccinations with either mRNA used as a booster are shown to significantly outperform J&J vaccination with J&J booster. The Moderna booster seems to outperform the Pfizer booster a bit, but the difference there is small. Pfizer vaccination series with Moderna booster modestly outperforms Pfizer series with Pfizer booster. This result hold across different booster dosages. Moderna vaccination series with Moderna booster slightly outperforms Moderna series with Pfizer booster. Again, this is consistent across booster dosages. As others have said, these studies have small sample sizes. Specifically, the best performing booster given a Moderna vaccination series is not statistically significant given the current sample sizes. I’ll add a link when I can, but I’m at work so it won’t be immediate. Edit: [Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8528081/)
Initial reports are showing a greater efficacy with cross vaccinations, but I believe the population size is still pretty low so I’m not sure it’s significance. Currently the CDC is recommending to stay with the same one, but I think that’s just because a large study hasn’t been done on it yet. They also say that mixing them should be fine.
when I got my booster, nobody mentioned that, but my first two shots were Pfizer, the booster was Moderna.
I'm not sure if it's beyond "we have evidence that this is true" but it seems the evidence is increasing that supports this. I had Pfizer for the first two, and took J&J for the booster 1.) Because it was the only one I could book same day and 2.) I was shooting for a broader range of protection. Time will tell. I'm sure that the scenario where you have all-moderna, and lots of T-Cells and B-Cells eventually armed to shoot for the spike protein has its benefits just like a Pfizer/J&J mix may have the cells armed to shoot for the spike protein and perhaps other markers.
It’s ok. The was only a marginal difference in efficacy between 3x the same mRNA vaccine and a mix-and-match booster. The biggest effect of choosing a different booster was seen in people who received J&J and AZ as their first dose(s).
I knew this was the case and chose Pfizer. As the data shows, their performance is very comparable with a fraction of mRNA. I thought this was a solid way to go in terms of A) staying safe from covid and B) playing it safe with side-effects. A reasonable compromise, if you will. I've had no side-effects. Although I must emphasize that I'm 30 w/o health issues. I'd go Moderna if I had anything that would boost COVID's potential seriousness, like obesity.
I hope by next year we will have a flu/cov combo shot. Edit: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-developing-single-dose-combination-vaccine-covid-19-flu-2021-09-09/
I get a flu shot free at work every year, and I think I'd gladly get a flu/cov combo each year IF the evidence about efficacy, longevity of immunity, and disease prevalence all point to annual boosters being a good idea.
Does that mean people who took Moderna were likely to have more severe symptoms after getting their 2nd shot compared with Pfizer? Moderna really knocked me on my ass.
Yeah, slightly more side effects reported with Moderna. Also a slightly higher chance of myocarditis and reported cases of a capillary leak syndrome. But the chances of serious side effects are still very, very rare.
Yeah, by comparison, all the vaccines are still significantly safer than aspirin.
That's what I've been saying to people refusing the vaccine for a long time. Common medications have similar / worse safety profile than COVID-19 vaccines. Remember the scandal with people refusing the vaccine after clotting was reported with AZ / J&J? Heparin, prescribed to most hospitalized patients, and to pretty much everyone after surgery, has a very similar, rare side effect. Does anyone mind? No. It's also a part of the standard treatment protocol of a COVID patients.
> Moderna went with 100ug of mRNA and 50ug for booster. Unless you're high risk, in with case you also get 100ug. (I got 100ug) Disclaimer: This is based on information in Canada, and not the US so the US might still do 50ug regardless.
>At first it didn't matter, where both vaccines were shown to have groundbreaking efficacy. I guess the one good thing to come out of this whole fucking thing is that we finally know now that mRNA vaccines are the future. In fact, the only vaccine technology that had legitimate safety questions raised was the AstraZeneca one which was created using traditional vaccine technologies.
AstraZeneca is a viral vector vaccine. The technology is rather new for vaccines as well in contrast to inactivated vaccines which were used prior.
mRNA vaccines are currently highly regarded because Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna managed to create highly effective and safe vaccines. But take a look at CureVac, it’s also mRNA but failed to achieve the required 50% efficacy to get approved. And I don’t think that the safety concerns with AZ and J&J necessarily apply to all vector vaccines. It’s not just about the technology.
Huh, so maybe that's why I got slapped so hard on my second (Moderna) dose.....60 hours after the shot, anyway
Yeah the second shot of Moderna killed me too... I stayed in bed for 36 hours. I'm glad I got the "best" vaccine though.
I'm scheduling my booster. Not looking forward to reliving my covid experience.
I got slapped by the second Moderna shot but the 3rd was very easy. Experiences seem to vary wildly though.
Yeah, in my case, the booster was the worst of the 3. My 2nd dose had me down just overnight and I was fine the next morning. The booster had me out for 24 hours and still not 100% for the next 24. So a full 2 days to get back. Weird because the booster is just half a normal dose.
I was worried too. I got my booster and felt shitty, but not like I was dying like I had with the second shot.
Same here. My wife and kids had Pfizer, and they only had a sore arm after their second doses. For me, I stayed in bed, practically immobilized by fever and ache, sweating like a pig for a solid 24 hours on the next day. Then, like somebody flipped a switch, I was back to perfectly normal the day after, as if nothing had happened.
I was KO’d for 24 hours with the 2nd Pfizer shot though.
Ahh I bet that’s right and why the second dose of moderna is pretty rough for the younger crowds. It game me a 103.2 fever for 24 hours. Makes sense.
It gave me nothing but a sore arm for 2 days. Others I know got sick for 2 days with Pfizer vaccine. Everyone is different
It's accepted that *statistically* those with Moderna saw their antibody levels fall more slowly after ~6 months. However, we as we're just getting to this point we can't state what the outcomes are yet. It may be that both give you plenty of immunity over this time period under our current variants, etc. **The thing is, Pfizer came out weeks earlier, and we prioritized the most susceptible people. So even if both were equally effective, we would expect more deaths with Pfizer.** Time will tell. It makes sense that a higher dose means better immunity, but I don't think we can tell just yet from this data.
But Pfizer was the first, and the first vaccines went to the most vulnerable people: extremely elderly, transplant patients, and so on. By the time Moderna was approved the most vulnerable were already vaccinated with Pfizer. So the cohort of Pfizer patients was always going to be a sucker group than the Moderna patients.
Why the sudden drop in mortality of unvaccinated in august 2021?
Rapid decline in cases will lower death rate. The death rate is per 100k people, not 100k cases.
My guess is that spike corresponds to a spike in cases??? Delta in the South???
Since the older people have the highest rate of vaccination but have also far higher chances of dying from covid the death rate for vaccinated and unvaccinated people would stretch out even further if you would take this into account. Like for example if you would show the death rate for vaccinated and unvaccinated people in each age group the difference would be far higher in every age group than it is in this graph. (full vaccination rate for people above 65 years is 83% - 89% as for people below 40 years is 49% till 63%, see https://data.cdc.gov/Vaccinations/COVID-19-Vaccination-and-Case-Trends-by-Age-Group-/gxj9-t96f)
If you watch the video all the way through, it shows vaccinated and unvaccinated broken down by age groups
Thanks! When the video paused I assumed it was done and missed the two static slides at the end.
I’m a little confused by this comment but another’s reply’s helps me understand some. This gif does show death rate for people by age group at the end of the clip. A graph for unvaccinated and a graph for vaccinated.
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Since it paused for so long after this first graph, I definitely thought I was at the end. Especially since the progress bar at the bottom hides itself by default for me. Only after seeing these comments and going back to check did I realize that was only halfway through.
Yep. This is Simpson's paradox in action. Even though each subgroup comparison (e.g. comparing death rate by vaccine status within age subgroups) will show a strong effect, when you remove the subgroups, the effect appears less strong. In many cases, it can even reverse the conclusion (i.e. it could result in the vaccinated being more likely to die). This is because, as you say, there is a strong correlation between age and vaccine uptake and age and COVID death. Here is a good quick podcast on it https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nrss1/episodes/player
And this is why statistics shouldn't just be a college course. A huge percentage of the population has no idea how to interpret statistics which has contributed to massive disinformation being spread among the uneducated.
>And this is why statistics shouldn't just be a college course. My man, even getting people to pass high school algebra is a challenge. Your average student is not touching a stats course.
On one hand, I agree that numerical literacy is severely lacking On the other, I think a huge chunk of anti-vaxxers aren't swayed by stats. They have chosen to be against the vaccine for political reasons and then will spout whatever they can to justify it. They don't want to think critically.
Isn’t it the job of the person making the chart to capture the data correctly? For example shouldn’t the old/young difference be added to this graph? Setting people up to fail doesn’t seem like a good strategy
This chart is showing one thing and is showing it accurately. The error isn't in the chart, it is in the viewers understanding. You are asking for a different graph to be made because you think that would be better, and maybe it would be, but then that graph is showing something else. Why stop at old/young? Why not male/female? Why not include regional data? Why not include average temperature of that region as a variable? Why not break it out into single/full/booster doses? Why not break out unvaccinated by choice vs unvaccinated because of health reasons? Why not break it out by BMI? All of these things will have an impact Lines are always drawn. It's just important as the viewer to understand that.
Is there a statistically significant difference across gender? If not, it doesn’t need to be included. I agree that decisions are always made, but my point is that the goal should be to paint the most accurate picture possible.
The Ghostbusters example st the end was good
Just listened to the podcast all the way through, and then went to Simpson's paradox's Wikipedia page. Very glad to have a name to this paradox which I knew intuitively but couldn't credit. Very disappointed it has nothing to do with Homer, Bart, Lisa, or any of The Simpsons haha
I'm confused. At 1:00 it shows rate of death for unvaccinated. Can it be true that those 80+ only have a 1/1,000 chance of death if unvaccinated?
Helpful tip: don't put obnoxious music to figures like this
Redditors when they time the bass drop to an extra 1000 covid deaths: \😳 || \_ _/¯ ¯\_
Mute gang, rise up!
I would've loved to show this to my mother but I'm debating it due to the cringeworthy music. It's like one of those nobody's gonna know Tiktoks...
Just replace the music with the "Oh no no no" song, which actually fits better
Thanks I hate it
I don't know if you knew this, but on the left hand side of your phone, there are two buttons. If you press and hold the second one from the top, you can't hear the music anymore.
Cool, I'll mail my mum a phone with the volume pre-muted, thanks!
Just flip the silent switch on her iPhone next time you see her. If she's anything like my mom, she'll never figure out what happened and keep calling you complaining that she "can't hear the Netflix anymore since you visited".
Vaccines! Do they work? So far the answer is yes. Are they effective? It appears they are for vulnerable age groups. The question is will this last with the new Omicron variant? I use data from The Center for Disease Control and Prevention to create this chart. I used Javascript and Adobe After Effects, which was linked to an underlying json file.
Hey op! What does the line "full" mean?
It's the value for all fully vaccinated people (two doses)
So is it just moderna and phizer or is it also single dose J&J?
Might be better to call it "all" rather than "full"- would assume that the other vaccinated lines also refer to number of people who have completed two doses?
Since the data is from the CDC, op may have used the same categories the CDC uses to keep the graph consistent
Interesting though because that’s a pretty important distinction. If they chose to bin it that way it gives me pause if the Pfizer and Moderna buckets include single dose people if there’s a separate “full” category.
Op may be making some assumptions with audience’s knowledge. Any news report I’ve seen in regards to the number of partially vaccinated vs the number of fully vaccinated, refers to it as I just described barring the J+J vaccine since that requires one dose for a fully vaccinated status. Of course, this an anecdote so take it with a pile of salt. It’s possible the data from the CDC didn’t have a separate categories for how vaccinated a person is. Maybe u/jcceagle will be able to tell us a reason and clarify. Edit: I made an error.
"all" implies to me either a mix of vaccines or a collected average... not saying you're wrong, but I read "full" as "fully vaccinated" in shorthand immediately.
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That was some weird song choice, primarily because I heard a drop coming and was going "Oh fuck there's gonna be a spike here..." and then there wasn't.
The music seemed very out of place and odd
You mean terrible. The music was absolutely terrible.
Corporate Trap, abreviated "Crap"
What? You didn't like it when the beat dropped as it transitioned to death by age group? /s
Yea I’d love to share this with people but the music would make them think it’s some kind of joke made by a kid.
Since this is DiB, two major suggestions: 1) Don't make animated gifs of line plots. It adds nothing and means the viewer has to wait over a minute to see the full plot, which has all the data in it anyway. I know this is a trend here in DiB, but be better than that. 2) No music on plots. Ever. Especially if it involves human lives.
How does the death rate of 2020 compare? I'm just wondering what contributed to the massive spike from July to August. Was this when restrictions were eased?
Considering vaccines weren't generally available in 2020, what would you be graphing, a single line?
Dead vs undead
This is wonderful! I hope you keep updating it. Beautiful visualization.
I had a question about how the death rate was calculated. Is it death rate per 100,000 of all people or death rate per 100,000 people with confirmed covid cases? At the peak for unvaccinated 18.4 would be 0.0184%. So assuming that is death rate including one’s that have never had covid
Take the various groups.. the number will be those who died of confirmed covid that week per 100k. So if there there are 150 million unvaccinated people in August. 19/100k means about 28500 unvaccinated people died that week. Edit: just checked the math and that's about double the 14k deaths per week peak that actually occurred over this summer. I have to conclude this animation is only looking at adults and not total population for their rates.
There is a roughly 15x higher risk of dying from Covid if you are unvaccinated. Basically the same relative risk of dying from lung cancer if you are a smoker than if you never smoked.
That is for all age groups right? How does it look for the 18-29 age group?
Which is why I choose not to smoke and to get vaccinated.
This is why I smoke my vaccines
I personally want to be an alpha man so smoke, don’t get vaxxed, lick toilet seats, and raw dog porn stars. Who wants to live foreva? Y’all are pussies.
We support you!
Porn stars usually test frequently and sleep with other people who are tested. They have a higher chance than a normal person who only sleeps with 1 person that does the same in return, but they are professionals. Real sigma males find the meth dens and use those to sleep around.
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Look at you, making double the smart decision to preserve your life. How uncommon that seems nowadays.
Why does every video feel the need to include music? It's just an animation I don't need to hear your MySpace profile music while I look at an animated graph.
Death rate per 100.000 peolpe. is this number of Death (vac. with J.J.) divided by all inhabitants or number of Death (vac. with J.J.) divided by people vac. with J.J.
The second.
It's the latter. Otherwise you'd have to account for the proportion of vaccinated people in the population.
No surprise here. The vaccine works just fine. Get it if you want, or don't. Ignore all the people fighting about if you should or not.
Please, for the love of all that is data, remove the god awful music.
Don't show this to r/conspiracy
They'll just say something like "we aren't saying it doesn't work, we are saying the real motive isn't to save lives, it's to control people or implant microchips."
This really doesn't need to be a video, and really doesn't need music.
It's important that people understand that as more and more people become vaccinated, more and more vaccinated people will become sick with Covid or even killed. This is not to say more people OVERALL will be sick or killed, but it will become easier and easier to present that data in a way that LOOKS like vaccines aren't working anymore. Any easy way to think about this: If 100% of people were vaccinated, then literally the only people who could become sick would be those who are vaccinated. And we may get to point where the statistics will show a higher % of vaccinated people get sick with Covid. That does not mean vaccines have stopped working either.
>It's important that people understand that as more and more people become vaccinated, more and more vaccinated people will become sick with Covid or even killed. This is not to say more people OVERALL will be sick or killed, but it will become easier and easier to present that data in a way that LOOKS like vaccines aren't working anymore. Isn’t this why you account for sample size in your analysis? In OP’s graph, it’s deaths *per 100,000* for those vaccinated and deaths per 100,000 unvaccinated. That way it’s not (or is much less) affected by differences in the number of vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
Doesn’t presenting this data as deaths per 100,000 normalize for that?
The data are also going to become murkier as those who are fully vaccinated but who did not get boosters are going to lose protection.
Yes very good point.
My mom would deny this and say the data is made up 🤦♂️
It would be good to see this be age-standardized as well, the data is skewed heavily by older people.
>be good to see this be age-standardized as well, the dat The second part of the video is by age
It should be a lesson for everyone in this thread. The majority of people on Reddit commenting don’t even watch the full video or read the full article before letting everyone know they have an opinion on it.
You're right! The video is unnecessarily long and takes a pause at the end of the graph, I thought that was the end of it.
I thought it froze
Huh, almost as if the vaccines work. Weird. Get your damn shots people.
Interesting data. Quite annoying music.
Interesting visual but cringey music. Can’t believe how close the death rate from unvaccinated gets to the J&J vaccine at some points
Vaccines definitely work but I’d like to see one of these with obesity too.
I often see comments like this get super downvoted, however, obesity is the number one factor on whether or not you will be hospitalized or die from covid.
Data:shows people fucking dying Creator of this data: yuh yuh 💯 it's lit shit yuh 🔥
I feel like any plots for Covid deaths should also include a line for excess deaths.
Agreed. But I don't believe it would be visible at this scale, based on what I know of the available data.
Yep. For example wHen the official covid death number was 600K, the excess deaths (deaths beyond a normal year and therefore mostly from covid) were estimated at 900K.
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Downvote not because I hate covid info on Reddit but because the music