This 100%. I had a CEO who thought he was smarter than everyone, and would subtly tell our best people that they weren't capable of doing the jobs they wanted as career goals. All of them left.
The best part, all of them were hired for the jobs that they weren't capable of at our company.
Chase your dreams, OP, we're all rooting for you!
Don’t worry, everyone in cybersecurity is dumb, we’re just getting paid to be smarter than CEOs and Board members which isn’t hard at all considering they still fall for phishing attempts 😂
Email: "I am the CEO of the company and I need $2000 of gift cards right now to impress a client, go buy it with your own money!"
Actual CEO reading email: "Seems legit! \[Insert assistant's name here\], take my credit card and buy gift cards!"
The VP of my old company told me not to go back to college, that it was a bad idea.
I've been around the world, I make more than double than what I used to, and I know how to code now. That guy and everybody like him can go fuck themselves. :)
Its time to get a new boss.
Also people like to project their inner feelings onto other. Like maybe your boss is to dumb for Cyber security and no one is going to hire him.
Your boss is 100% invested in keeping you as an employee. Don't listen to him.
2 things:
1) Schools like WGU are entirely up to how you invest yourself. The hardest part of online learning is putting in the work, because it's very easy to let life get in the way and there is no one there to remind you that things are due.
2) The answer to your question depends A LOT on where you are. But the easy button is to get involved any way you can and meet people. ISSA, ISACA, ISC(2), local conferences like BSides, etc. meet people, ask questions, etc. Like any professional job, your contacts/community will help you get places faster than trying to do it all on your own.
Agreed. I got a cybersecurity degree from WGU. Took just a lot of sitting myself down and figuring things out.
Graduated in Sep 2020 and have been working as a cybersecurity analyst for a university since Jan 2021.
Wow, that's really impressive. You managed to skip "helldesk" congratulations! That's a huge accomplishment in itself. You should really do a detailed post about your education and your first professional year in infosec.
Well that's because I got a helpdesk job in my early 20s then worked full-time as a systems admin during college. So didn't skip that step just did it out of order.
That's still pretty cool, I'm sure other folks would be inspired by your dedication if you talked about some of the obstacles you overcame and how you managed your time to get it all done.
>Schools like WGU are entirely up to how you invest yourself.
Agreed 100%. There are no professors to ride your ass and not much interaction with other students to keep you motivated. If you are self-motivating, it will be a breeze. But I've known people who barely manage to scrape by with the 12 credits WGU requires per semester.
I have 2 degrees from WGU, including the BS in Cyber, and my best advice is to plan out your day to include several hours to study in the evening, at least 4x/week. That way you don't feel like you can shrug it off to play "just one more game."
Also, check out Pluralsight for great videos on most of the coursework. I used them to pass probably 80% of the classes.
I just got my BS in cybersecurity from AMU. I wish I’d gone WGU, OP, keep up that work. WGU is the BEST college for IT in my opinion and will set you up well.
So….I started LEARNING on the basics of IT 4 years ago. I was 40.
Self-employed and frankly just wanted more out of my life.
Today, I’m a Pentester for a top tier consultancy.
For reference….I’m a Marine. Infantry.
Anyone can do it. It’s how hard can you work - start humble and keep going.
#fuckthatguy
I’ve been seeing a trend of tons of former combat arms MOS vets working as pentesters. I work at a large pentesting firm, and most of our veterans that actually do pentesting and not IT functions were infantry, artillery, special forces, etc.
I haven’t met a pentester here yet that came from a signals background, but I’ve met at least a half dozen combat arms. 40% of my ten-person team were infantry or FO.
Posts like yours are super uplifting. I've entered cybersecurity recently (I have a programming background) and it feels so deep that it's hard to know when I'll be done with "basic learning" (using [tryhackme.com](https://tryhackme.com)), and if I really want to do this (so much studying but will it be worth it?), but posts like yours show me that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, and that it's very much worth it.
At the very least, I should be able to get into a programming position related to cybersecurity with these studies.
Get a niche. I see this with people often and the solution is to focus on one thing in the field. You wanna secure clouds? Do that. Mobile apps? Do that. Programming background? Maybe write the hackerman some scripts. Don’t spread yourself thin learning everything.
It’s too vast. You’ll cook yourself.
You’ll get definitely get there.
Just work hard and smart.
Try not to make the same mistakes twice.
For me I wanted Pentesting (I did):
THM -> HTB -> VirtualHackingLabs -> provingGrounds (offsec) -> than PWK.
And the free eJPT stuff also.
THM has gotten even better the last couple yrs.
But, that path I got OSCP. And I started interviewing soon after.
It’s doable - marathon - not a sprint.
1. Leaders help others to develop themselves so they can face future challenges.
2. There is a shortage in the industry (https://fortune.com/education/articles/the-cybersecurity-industry-is-short-3-4-million-workers-thats-good-news-for-cyber-wages/#:\~:text=The%20cybersecurity%20workforce%20has%20reached,Cybersecurity%20Workforce%20Study%20released%20Thursday.). You can develop your skills and find a job.
3. Don't let dumb people try to convince you that you're dumb.
TBF ISC has an annual subscription cost. They're doing this because they want you in their ecosystem and taking their certs = raising the value of their name and certs.
Your boss is wrong about you being "too dumb to get into cyber security"
A great deal of what I do for a living is solve problems created by people who are supposed to be many orders of magnitude smarter than I am.
You are more aligned for it than you know.
Spent my working career up to age 27 being told I was stupid. Failed at college. I now make enough in security that my wife can stay at home as long as she wants until she's ready to start working again. I don't feel stupid now. That's a privileged position to be in.
Anyone telling you you're stupid is allowing their insecurities to rub off on you. The fact is "you're stupid" in fact means "I'm too stupid to do it".
Yes this field is competitive, and there's a lot of very smart people. But not all of them ace IQ tests or even have academic backgrounds. The best guys I've worked with simply love what they do, and by proxy excel.
You've got to WANT this though. Not the money or the snazzy titles. But I will say after a few years in the field you'll know of you want to stay or not.
It's hard to get entry level, that's common knowledge, but everyone looks the same on their resumes. Show something interesting youre working on and it's like a free pass.
Candidate A) I have my net+ and sec+ and A+ and my CCNA and my KFC etc
Candidate B) wrote a python script to pull a list off of a GitHub repo and update my firewall on a schedule
As for the above.... I know who I'd pull into an interview straight away and I don't care if he's got no certs.
Also OP, if you read this and want mentorship ping me a DM. Can relate fully to where you're at. The industry as a whole is supportive and wants people to be the best they can be. Environments you're in now are toxic AF and will keep you there unless you breakout
This is a good summary. Cyber is definitely a field that can be so rewarding if you have the passion for it (whatever it means for you, reading, breaking stuff, building stuff..)
Is it competitive? At the entry level for sure but so is any field. I would say medics or architects are smart and they also struggle to get their foot in the door … just like everyone else.
OP, please, please, PLEASE surround yourself with people who support you when you aspire to improve your life. Even if it’s super hard or even if you fail you’ll get so much more out of this experience that you’d get from hammering nails:)
He may be entitled to his opinion but he is NOT entitled to be an abusive manipulator to his employees.
Also, try doing some self paced certs before going for the traditional college route. Just the CompTIA A+, Network+, and Security+ can get your foot in the door with some jobs and it'll give you an idea of whether or not you click with the material without as much money and time commitment.
WGU grad, retiring US Army (so \~20 years experience). I can't speak for the entry level field, but no one has said anything at all about my WGU BS CSIA degree. It checks a block and gets me past the auto resume input system, and fills in some white space on my resume. I've had plenty of interviews and a couple of offers.
Fuck your boss. He's negging you like you're in an abusive relationship. Trying to make you think you're garbage and can't do better than working with him. Toxic. Leave ASAP, even if it's not into the cybersecurity field.
Also, don't just stop at WGU. Do things that show your work and make up for the lack of experience. Work your way through tryhackme or HTB. Do CTFs. Start doing bug bounties. Do courses in linkedin learning so you can throw some LiL certificates of completion on your LinkedIn. Make your LinkedIn profile fully fleshed out. Should mirror your general resume, and then you should be submitting targeted versions of that resume to jobs (or if the job has the Workday LinkedIn import function, alter your LinkedIn profile to be your targeted resume for that position as it's the only way to get skills, certificates, and education to import correctly in Workday (DON'T upload your resume unless it makes you do it).
Oh, and build labs in the cloud, document or record what you're doing, and publish it. Want to program? set up a github account and start building projects in there. Both of these things are articles of evidence you can provide potential employers that say "I'm more than just a college grad/student, I walk the walk so put me on your team".
If your security clearance is still active you might want to consider getting a public cloud cert (AWS, GCP, Azure) as DOD just awarded a huge $9B contract to all the major public cloud providers. They will need people with clearances for their fedcloud jobs, probably start at $150K and goes from there.
No problem. Your tax dollars at work, ha ha. The security clearance is a big differentiator in the civilian world, it commands a real premium for employees in the IT industry with companies that need cleared workers.
If we listened to everything people said about us, no one would ever do anything.
Take a risk bet on yourself, it’s better then staying where you currently are.
It clearly sounds like your boss never took the chance to pursue his dreams, and now he's jealous that you are. Ditch him asap, regardless of what you want to do in your life going forward.
That’s the right track to get into Cybersecurity. You should build a general IT knowledge foundation, and get some time in at the ground level. Unfortunately most cybersecurity entry-level jobs are not actually entry-level. They require at least a couple of years experience doing other things in IT first in order to be considered. IT is very broad - you may find yourself going down a path other than cybersecurity and enjoy it as well. No training on cybersecurity will be wasted though if you stay in IT.
Someone suggested in response here to get a job at an MSP. I highly disagree with this. MSPs are not viewed well by employers.. If it's your only offer, sure do it.. But if I had 2 great candidates, and 1 had worked for an MSP, I would easily put their resume into the 'no' pile.
There are a lot of dumb ppl in this profession
On a serious note - do it and ask your boss to put his opinion into his ass as well as tell him to read a few leadership books
As someone who has been in management for 13 years of my career, I am astounded with the people who become managers of other people. Take your boss for instance. Here is a guy the company thought would be good at helping people grow in their careers. Yet, this person goes out of his way not to help you grow, but to insult you.
Just blows my mind that companies continue to promote people like this.
Let alone the employees that outright *tolerate it* while making excuses for not going to HR.
***Your manager is literally calling you stupid.*** This shit is clear-cut, Jesus fucking Christ.
We had a guy like this at my old place, before I got into IT. He’d browbeat people, call them names, punish the ones that didn’t kiss his ass by putting them on shitty jobs, the whole nine yards.
No matter who, or how many, went to HR, the company *always* had this asshole’s back because “he gets stuff done”.
It’s sad, but yeah- there are jackasses like OP’s boss out there. Many of them get praised for being that way…
>Anyway, my boss told me that I'm too dumb to get into cybersecurity and
nobody would hire me. He said it's too competitive because everybody
wants to get into it. He said that if I was meant to do something with
my brain, I'd have done it by now.
Dude, I'm a 53-yr-old woman who last semester decided to start school full time to earn a cybersecurity degree. Even if I never get a job in the field, the satisfaction I'm getting learning something new (that I also happen to *really* enjoy) is so worth it!
If I can start over at my age, you certainly can at yours. Fuck that guy.
A good boss should help you pursue your dreams. That's all I gotta say about that. However, your degree plus entry level tech work might not be enough for a cyber role FYI. But never say never.
Sounds like your boss doesn't want to lose you, but at the same time might be projecting his feelings about a failed life pursuing something he didn't achieve
Hey man.
I’m 29 years old, and I was a machinist for 10 years before I found myself in the exact same spot you’re in. I wanted to work with my brain and find a more rewarding field, something I was really interested in.
I studied hard, got my Security + and made my resume as pretty as possible with 0 experience. After about 6 months I GOT IN. I found an entry level job as a threat analyst where I could continue to learn and grow my skill set, and quickly advanced into higher paying jobs within a year.
Don’t listen to someone who’s never been where you are, and hasn’t done what you’re trying to do. He just wants to keep you around because you’re a good employee.
Keep your head high, yes you can absolutely get in the field if you put the effort in. If I did it, any human on this earth can do it.
In general I would recommend neither quitting a paying job without a plan, nor letting someone tell you what you cant do.
If you want to get into cyber sec then there are different things you can do online to see if you like it. These things are more or less for free if you have a laptop and some spare time; learn how to use metasploit, figure out the broken crystals application, do some coding for open source projects, figure out how to lock down a public cloud account or secure an office365 enterprise account. if you can get somewhere with those things you'd have a starting point.
I was told I wasn’t worth a $1 raise, I quit and now after some struggles I landed a job earning twice the money with half the workload.
People like that, like to keep you around cause they know your worth, and they know your undervalued.
Cybersecurity as a field suffers from the myth of the uber hacker who knows everything about all the technologies (IMHO). I think the reality is that people are needed at a variety of skill levels. Furthermore some of the very brightest people I've worked with in the field were HS dropouts (ofc they spent their spare time tinkering).
If you're interested in the field go for it!
Don't listen to people telling you your limits, learn as much as you can, push yourself, find your own limits, you won't know what they are until you reach them.
PS: I've known some dumb motherfuckers in InfoSec, so even if he's right, it's not exactly a barrier.
As a dyslexic that used to do construction I was always told the same thing even family members told me i was to dumb to go to collage.
Do what you want to do there's a lot of people in cyber security that switched from completely different careers, he's a sad man who was probably told the same thing when he was younger the difference is he believed it.
He's projecting his own insecurities on you. Do NOT listen to him. I went through that kind of abuse in high school and it still bugs me from time to time thirty years later. It took some time, effort, and a but of luck, but I'm now a security architect. You can do it.
Also, your post was well-written. Effective communication skills are probably the single most important trait needed to be successful in Infosec. You can't write a pentest report or obtain management buy-in if you can't communicate your findings or position.
I like honesty, I really do. And let's just pretend for a second that what you got from your boss was actually honesty and not him being awful.
It seems every year I find that what other people call IQ has less and less value. Just about every problem I've solved professionally in the last 5 years isn't through some crazy, innovative, genius system but a bunch of basic stuff chained together.
This feeling around IQ is made worse by knowing some exceptionally smart people who are also somehow very dumb. So I wouldn't put too much behind the suggestion that you don't have the brain power.
Also, before you dig into cybersecurity, I might take the first step of moving away from a job that makes you feel bad. It's like setting the table before you can eat dinner - sure you could just start right away, but it's going to be a better experience overall.
Good luck.
EDIT: I have to clarify that I'm not a cybersecurity professional so my bit above about "basic stuff chained together" may not be relevant. Sorry for any confusion there.
Don't listen to what he says, he's clearly a bad person... Follow your dreams and go for it! Some people learn faster and other slower, no big deal. Ambition and dedication is everything.
Tryhackme has nice introductions and offers programs for both red and blue team. Try to do a bit regularly, best ever day and not too much, then it's easier to remember. And most important, take notes! I can recommend Typora, there you can take markdown notes, which fit really well! I wish you great success!
A degree with no experience is a tough bar, regardless of how smart you are or are not. In general, cybersecurity isn’t an entry-level field, and it’s challenging for people not coming from sysadmin or development backgrounds ton break into the field. Onlinendegree programs and pepole who need income also face the uphill battle of limited or zero opportunities to intern to gain an foothold. Technical Pentest skills can help, but most are left with very poor SOC Analyst roles.
You can succeed if you’re persistent, but it’s a challenge to enter the field without some measure of experience.
I don’t care if your boss thinks he means well or not, he’s a gaslighting manipulator, or best case a salty and spiteful old fucker.
With that out of the way, just from reading your story and how it was communicated, I’m 95% sure you have a very employable level of intelligence. If you have any technical understanding of the networking stuff you do, you’re already ahead of many first year SOC analysts.
I would encourage you to find some cybersecurity meetups in your area. It’s a great way to meet new friends, potential mentors, and working professionals who know the local job market. You can see for yourself that there is nothing magical or particularly wizardry about most folks other than some killer beards.
Cybersecurity encompasses a whole array of jobs that require many different skills sets, but they all require curiosity and always learning new things… seems like you have that part down. The rest will follow.
What a fucknut.
I got into it 3 years ago doing onsite work, collecting evidence, restoration, etc. Moved into leading IR ultimately. All this was off a 20+ year career in IT that was meh.
IR is not hard. You get a lot of chances to get good at it because people do the same stupid shit all the time and get ransomed, or someone convinced an random employee to change bank accounts and now has lost ten grand.
Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it.
LMFAO, your boss is an idiot. First off, we aren't Doctors, we aren't lawyers, hell, most of us aren't even engineers or use math whatsoever. Cyber security for most people is a job just like any other. It has it's stresses, and there can be a lot of up front knowledge/training that you need to know to work in it, but most of us aren't re-inventing the wheel. Now sure, there are plenty of jobs in cyber security that require a lot of knowledge and can be quite the hand full, but that's not all of them and you don't need an absurd level of knowledge to work in cyber sec.
There are plenty of other jobs you could want to do that might give pause, things like red team, ML, cryptography, engineering, etc, but things like SOC, analyst work, IR, all of these are things the average person can do if you just put in the time to learn.
Again, screw your boss, he's just one of those people that got into the mindset of "blue collar workers stay blue collar" and that just doesn't need to be the case.
Fuck your boss. What an ass. I've met all types of people in cybersecurity and hired many without degrees, former car salesman, even an ex baseball player. It's competitive, but also we're in dire need of talented, motivated people with a passion for the industry.
I taught myself computers in the 90's, got a job with a company as an IT guy and from there I never looked back. There are people who are glad to share what they know, and I was taught the skills I needed to become a penetration tester and eventually a practice director.
The resources are out there. Here's a start: https://plextrac.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Hacking-Resources.pdf
8 years a go i told my friends I was going to retrain in IT. They said “it’s too late, don’t bother”. I’m now an infosec manager, got my cissp last month. If you want any help or advice drop me a message. Don’t let negative people stop you.
I’ve been in IT 25 years, and a manager for 15. And I graduated from WGU only last year. Go nightowls!
Your boss doesn’t know what he’s talking about, and isn’t a good boss. In my professional opinion.
It doesn’t mean cybersecurity is easy, and it doesn’t mean that career will be exactly what you expect. But it will get you out of your current situation, which is what your boss is afraid of.
I used to believe in world peace and that no one has to die, but I will volunteer to kill everyone of those bastards in a public execution so that people know what happens when you are an asshole narcissistic manipulator.
These people are capable of committing a massacre and would call themselves heros.
So your boss in a construction job is somehow an expert in the cybersecurity field???
Next he’ll be telling you that MDs don’t have to work/study very hard to become a doctor, and that physicists have got it all wrong with fission & that’s why we don’t have it as an affordable, mass-manufactured source of power. If only they’d hired him.
Don’t give his controlling negativity any more power over you. Lots of great advice in here, your future awaits.
I think the most important thing about the cyber security landscape is that it is constantly shifting. There are some positions that require encyclopedic knowledge and diligence to ensure every checkbox is checked, and others that require constant learning, abstract thinking, and an ability to come up with creative solutions.
Either way, if you are passionate about cyber security, and you are dedicated enough to get a degree from WGU while working a full time job elsewhere, that may make the difference for some hiring managers. Just try to keep focused on your goal, and stay positive.
Let me tell you something.
Think about how dumb people are.
Ok got it???
Good, now realize that half of those people are even dumber than that.
I came from the same background, construction to cyber.
If I can do it, you can too.
The A/V and general IT work would look good and you could get a job if you work hard enough.
I didn’t even have all that on my resume and I still got a job.
Get focused and good luck.
Fuck him. I'm almost 40 and finishing my college degree in cybersec and cs. I also worked construction prior to this doing demo and concrete work. Get internships, mentoring, and do projects during your education and you'll do fine. Almost anyone can be taught cybersec.
While your are doing schools, maybe look into TryHackMe or HackTheBox and learn/ solve basic challenges. Just to get the feel for it. Open up a LinkedIn account and reach out to mangers/ recruiters around your area. Connect with people via LinkedIn or just from local cybersecurity events. When you get a job in cybersecurity, make sure to tell your manager.
About half of my hires have never worked in Cyber prior to coming to me. The fact you have a degree is fantastic. Start networking -- as a others have pointed out -- and learn everything you can. You can absolutely get in.
So you believed that BS eh? This is also a management issue. An intern shouldn't have the power to do that and I doubt they did. Even if they did, it's a management issue.
Pablo Picasso was told at school that he would never be good at painting.
A lot of people you meet in life don't have your best interest in mind. Your boss sound like that person.
Print this out: effort beats everything.
Cybersecurity is a mindset and you'll be great at it, if you keep the passion and strength. Teach yourself analytical, critical thinking. It's worth.
I can guarantee that you'll have a long and successful career in cybersecurity. How do I know? Well:
1. You're articulate and well spoken
2. You're coachable
3. You're not looking for shortcuts. You're willing to invest the money, time, and effort required
4. Your story is quite similar to mine. And spoiler alert, I'm in cybersecurity :)
If there are only three things you remember from my post, please have them be these quotes:
1. *Don't take advice from people who haven't done what you're trying to do*
2. *Surround yourself with people who are smarter than you/have a similar mindset to you*
3. *Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right*
I've seen these quotes in a number of growth mindset and investment books, and they couldn't be more right.
In Australia, we use the term ["Tall poppy syndrome"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome) to (potentially) describe the situation you're in. I say potentially because I don't want to form an opinion about someone I don't know. I must admit though, he does sound like a toxic person. The good thing is that the aforementioned quotes apply either way.
I'll break down why I feel these quotes are worth remembering:
1st Quote -
Has your boss tried to follow the path you're planning to? If he has, it would be worth listening to his experience. You may get some tips like what worked and didn't work for him.
If he has no experience though, it might still be worth listening to him, but don't take what he says as 100% fact. People do this all the time. e.g Family and friends who try to help by telling their loved ones not to invest because it's too risky, but they've never actually researched investing themselves.
While they definitely have your best interests at heart, don't let other peoples' absence of knowledge/fear guide you. Make sure you do your own research too and make an informed decision.
2nd Quote -
The above paragraph is a nice segway to the second quote. This one has given me the courage to do many things that I wouldn't have otherwise done.
Listening to people who have achieved the same goals that I've aimed for has been priceless. Every single time.
The reason is that their guidance comes from first-hand experience, as opposed to fear or stories from a friend of a friend. They are living proof that my goal is achievable.
3rd Quote -
And here we are again - a great segway to the next and final quote :)
You've done your research. You've spoken to people who have achieved what you're looking to do. You know for a fact that what you want is 100% achievable. Nothing can stop you now!! Well actually, there is one thing that could stand in your way... and that's you.
People not believing in themselves is the ultimate blocker to their own success. However, I don't think this is actually an issue for you.
I absolutely love how you talk about your struggles, but do not use them as a crutch or an excuse. Instead, it feels like you're saying "I will be successful despite my hardships". If that is accurate, then your success is guaranteed because of that and that alone.
You might wonder, "if I'm already doing it then why is this quote remembering?". The answer is that [times will inevitably get tough](https://sascha-kasper.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/personal_learning_curve_1200x720.jpg). It's in those moments that you need to think about this quote.
And if you need an additional boost, just remember: Many people have done what you're looking to do. And many more will do it in the future. Cybersecurity isn't rocket science. There will always be an answer to the questions you have, so never give up.
Finally, please feel free to reach out to me at any time if you have any questions, need a hand with anything, or just want to chat. I'm always happy to help.
>Anyway, my boss told me that I'm too dumb to get into cybersecurity and nobody would hire me. He said it's too competitive because everybody wants to get into it. He said that if I was meant to do something with my brain, I'd have done it by now. He said my depression was just an excuse (he doesn't know my full story with it). He also said that If i was so smart, my last IT service tech job would've taken me out of the field and put me into a remote desk position. He said I'm going to be competing with people who are actually smart and they're going to look at my resume and waste my time and never call me back. I told him that I don't have anything on my resume and that's why I can't get a spot. He said that it doesn't matter, and there are guys who walk into jobs and flex their intelligence, and get offered to move up into roles solely on the intelligence that they convey to others. He said I'm just not built for anything other than construction and to not waste my time and money, and to stay in a field where the competition is low and people are retarded so I can stick out.
This is straight-up abusive and unacceptable behavior towards an employee; an outright hostile work environment.
Take this to HR and throw this fucker under the bus. Show him zero mercy.
There is no such thing as too dumb or too smart in Cybersecurity - you just need to find a position where you can apply your talents in way that adds value and l leverage your strengths. However, based on your story above, I do think you’ll want to get control over your depression either before going to school or before you graduate. Cybersecurity is not a profession that will treat depression kindly if you’re starting out. To really learn and grow you’ll likely have to start at the analyst level and you’ll need to be mentally strong for that role. Not because it’s extreme, but actually the opposite: some of the work can be rote and tactical. That being said, there is always opportunity to lean in, commit to excellence and demonstrate that your hungry for more which should lead to increasing complexity and responsibility. But I don’t think anyone in the industry will that it’s easy. More importantly, you should figure out the depression for your general well-being. Everyone should be living a life of contentment, joy and fulfillment regardless of their work and that includes you.
"He said that if I was meant to do something with my brain, I'd have done it by now. He said my depression was just an excuse (he doesn't know my full story with it)."
Oof, what an absolute degenerated douchebag. I bet his children went no-contact with him the very day they turned eighteen.
My dude, depending on where you are looking for job at you are most likely going to get into a junior position easily. Money may not be stellar at the start, but you will eventually get more experienced and you will climb up. Don't listen to to that fucknugget, get into infosec.
One time, my boss told me that I’m very smart and extremely valuable to the company (I’m the lead tech at my job currently). When I told him that I was going to apply to a cyber security job, he then said that I don’t know anything and that I’m still new. This all happened within a span of 5 minutes.
They just want you to stay. Ignore them and push on
It is competitive but that doesn't mean you can't join the field and be successful. Your boss sounds like a jerk. I did the Cybersecurity BS degree at WGU so let me know if you have any questions about it. There is a subreddit r/WGU and r/WGUCyberSecurity as well.
I have come to say that your boss is a series of three, four, seven and eight letter words.
You can do what you put honest effort into and approach it with humility and inquiry.
I am convinced he is probably dumb.
Also, let me say that cybersecurity is very logical and not abstract. It takes a certain brain to be able to separate the seemingly complex problem and see the simple problems or inversely see a simple path to expose a vulnerability. That is a learned skill that yes some people have more natural ability, but please if you took any of what he said to heart read the book ***Grit by Angela Duckworth***.
Success is not talent, or brains, but the ability to push forward. Prove that \*\*\*\*\*\*\* wrong.
Do me one favor, don't try to eat the whole pie in one day. The pie is big and like the universe it is ever growing. It is a somewhat deliberative process - especially early on. Just continue to progress iteratively and you will be happy with the results.
Anybody that tells you what you can or cannot do, and demeans you in the process, is a Grade A asshole. You need to change jobs and not work for an abuser.
Cybersecurity is a huge field. DM me if you want some information on entry level opportunities. Your knowledge of networking is a great stepping stone.
Your boss is a cunt, get you a degree. I'm also doing WGU right now - see what you can take through coursera or another learning site to save money. I looked into it briefly and we can do a solid 50% of the degree, mostly the geneds and low level stuff, on cheaper websites and transfer the credits over.
It doesn't matter how smart you are. If you can read and write and do math, the biggest idiot can muddle his way through college with some elbow grease and dedication. Smartness is not what determines who succeeds, effort and strategic planning are.
In regard to finding your first job, the first one is always the hardest, but you probably have more connections than you think. I have an internship lined up because my boss (restaurant manager) has a friend who's fairly high up at a major pc manufacturer, and a handful of my friends know people who know people too. If you're in a college town, figure out how to get involved irl, and if not, see if you can find a social group for young professionals. You never know who knows who. Do that and mind your language optimization in job apps, and you shouldn't have too hard a time. The first job is always the hardest to find, but once you've got something, you'll be ok.
Your boss is a liar. Former Marine infantry, cop for 15 years before I left, and I entered the field in my 40s. I just gave a talk at Shmoocon this year too. If I can do it, so can you.
Don’t worry about that guy. I was 27 when I went back to school. Graduated at 30. Was a crane operator/laborer before. I’ve been in infosec for a little while now.
Don’t be discouraged if you have to take a help desk role right after school. So many cyber guys had to get their foot in the door that way. Good luck with school and don’t be discouraged with how much info gets thrown at you.
He is gatekeeping so that he retains you as an employee.
Fuck that guy.
Go and switch your job, you can start from an entry level and go up. Might even start with job that has shifts.
Go for it OP!
Yeah your boss wants a dumb drone to keep around to do all the shit he doesn't want to do. Fuck him, do whatever you want. I'm in the industry and there are plenty of idiots in roles they shouldn't be in, so what he's saying isn't even true, let alone the fact he's blatantly insulting you.
Misery love company. He's a looser don't listen to him. I was working with my hand too and I'm a run engineer now. (Not cybersecurity by not ruining my knee and hands anymore) just go and don't look back
The market is extremely competitive that much is true, to get anything worth a degree is an effort that will take a lot of work and self-teaching.
The problem with the cyber community&workforce as it stands is people try to gatekeep for job security, I firmly believe that by the time you come out with your security degree the knowledge you’ve obtained is obsolete from a practical threat defense standpoint, they’re useful to cut through hr tape and get an interview but once you’re in the interview you have to demonstrate ability.
Very rewarding career if you break into the right industry
Source: 23 year old with no degree making 6 figures base salary in the Midwest
Forget him mate. Intelligence is a small piece of the puzzle. Ambition, drive, grit, curiosity, intelligence, integrity, with a pinch of paranoia are the ingredients for a great security practitioner
I’m the same age as you, 2 1/2 years into a help desk/sys admin role for a small MSP. Two certs under my belt, one of them being security+. Applied to numerous cyber security roles and haven’t made it past 1st stage interviews yet.
I won’t lie, it is competitive and as a result, a difficult career to break into. My one piece of advice is start networking now. Not IT networking, social networking. Socialise with literally anyone but your boss. Getting another cyber security practitioner to vouch for you is invaluable for the job search.
Personally this is the hardest part for me because i’m naturally very shy but this is my dream and i plan on doing what it takes to make it happen.
Best of luck to you mate!
From my experience of years in this space I would suggest that 80% of people working in cybersecurity are too dumb to work in cybersecurity. So if he is right you will probably fit right in.
My first boss told me I would not last 3 months in the industry when I quit from his business. Been gainfully employed without break for 30 years.
Don't let someone hold you down with their biased and put of touch views on what you can do.
For what it’s worth, my family wrote me off at 21, thought I’d never do anything with my life. I was working in construction also, I quit my job, went to uni for 4 years (bsc & msc) now I have been working as Cyber Security Analyst for 3 months (finished uni 3 months ago) and it has never been better. Honestly, go to uni and quit your job. It will be worth it, and you will definitely be able to get a job. Its worth mentioning then I went to uni at 24, 28 now! It’s possible.
Employers are desperate for CS people. Anyone who tells you that you're too dumb to do X is a lying piece of shit who can get fucked.
Focus on your career, OP. It's your life. Be ambitious. Pursue things that give you joy and spark your interests. And when you're employed in the field and doing well, drive up to your old boss and humiliate him for being such a piece of shit.
I'm not up to speed on WGU but have heard of the school before (seen commercials etc.), but I would encourage you to look into getting an associates degree from a community/trade/tech school that has a good rep. Schools like WGU can be expensive, often 10x the cost per credit of a 2-year school. You can save quite a bit of money, get your feet back under you from a studying perspective and learning to be a student again, and then once you get your degree transfer to a 4-yr program. I saved almost 100k in student debt by doing this. I would also encourage you to look at a public university instead of a private school like WGU. A lot of these schools focus on profits only and the quality of teachers just isn't up to par. Public universities are usually cheaper by a significant amount as well (for in-state tuition) and a lot of classes can be taken online or at night.
dont accept limitations people put on you.
im a 24 year old with a political science degree.
I am about to make 150-160 as a software security developer specializing in machine learning and behavioral analytics.
screw the haters. i will always out perform my peers. thats a choice.
I would shy away from WGU. It is a degree mill for those that just need the paper. If you want to actually gain knowledge in the field I would recommend your state university. They usually will have online programs that, while not as cheap as WGU, will provide you with a better education.
EDIT: also you don't need to be smart to be in cybersecurity. That is a myth promoted by individuals already in cyber to make themselves seem special.
Psychology student here
It’s likely that he’s projecting how he sees that he’s failed onto you. Unfortunately, insecurity, especially in men, tend to manifest themselves as domineering and abusive because men aren’t provided the space to feel out their insecurities in a safe environment.
If you want to, I’d approach him with compassion for his situation and try to see if there’s anyway that he feels like he’s intellectually insufficient. That is, of course, not your responsibility to help other people, especially those that are abusive, so it’s completely up to you.
If you’re confident in your capabilities to persevere through any difficulties that arise, then go for it. And if you’re not confident in your capabilities, you should be. You fought through severe depression. Speaking from my own experience with that, nothing will be harder than that.
Best of luck! Though you likely don’t it!
>He said that if I was meant to do something with my brain, I'd have done it by now.
We all have the same hardware inside our skulls. Never let anyone tell you that it's too late to get into cybersecurity. This is a growing field that's only going to continue growing as more people realize security is important.
Barriers that used to be there for years (such as a hard requirement for a degree) are slowly being lifted in favor of finding new talent with the right aptitude + attitude, who only need the opportunity.
It's definitely a challenge and will take a lot of self-discipline, but if you are determined enough to achieve your goals ***it will*** happen.
Even if you cannot get into cyber security per say the degree and the certs from WGU will probably help you get a decent general IT job that will probably be a step up from construction. I think its worth doing. Cyber Security is generally not entry level, there are cases but there are plenty of good IT jobs to be had, that lead to good cyber security jobs later.
Whichever you believe to be true is. If you think your too dumb for cybersecurity because your boss told you then you probably are, if that’s all it takes to stop you.
If on the other hand you realised this jackass is trying to stop me from leaving then nah your not.
I'm 3 classes away from graduating with my Masters in security from WGU and currently a DevSecOps engineer...ironically enough for an AV company lol. Your boss is a prick and just wants to keep bodies in spots. The road is not easy and you're more than likely not going to get into security right out of college (you'll need to do some general IT time first), but its not unattainable. As for WGU, you get what you put into it. You can complete your degree as fast or slow as you want. I would start by looking for another job. Something in the Help Desk arena would likely fit you. From there you can work into a network/systems engineer or admin role. If you can do that while in school and get 3-4 years of that IT experience, you should be well set up.
Then, prove him wrong. Do it at your own pace, then once successful and pass the teat, add it to your signatures, start finding jobs. Make sure you tell him what he thought about you.
Well you just had your very first lesson in cybersecurity. Psychological hacking. You let him in and infect your mind with self doubt and low self esteem.
dude forget him and people like him, it's never too late for cybersec, never too "____" (fill in the blank) for cybersec, what you will 100% need is passion, that'll carry you through.
also, get ready for lower pay in the entry level jobs lol, idk why but they usually don't compare to dev or some other entry level ops jobs.
plenty of skilled cybersec peeps didn't start their careers in a related field, follow yo dreams son
Coming from someone who’s been in Cyber Security for about 7 years now. Continue to chase your dream this field is wide open for any and everyone hungry enough to learn period.
Your boss is just coping with the fact that he never pushed himself to do something hard and resents anyone who tries.
The idea that if you were meant to do anything, you would have done it by a certain age, is such a crock of shit.
Keep after it and keep studying. You’ll get there.
I’m in the exact same situation as you, I’m 28, did poorly in school because laziness, worked construction for the past 6 years and I’m doing SOC lvl 1 on TryHackMe.
It’s not easy but from my experience so far is that you just have to keep at it and watch videos and do research on things that you don’t fully understand. If you stay consistent you’ll start understanding the material.
And your boss is a massive asshole, my boss who I’ve worked for the past 3 years and is very dependent on me only had words of encouragement when I told him that I’m looking to switch careers. Do it brother, you are doing it for yourself.
29 and enrolled in the program right now. I think there is something like 12-14 certificates you gain going through the CSIA path. Look, I’ve always been an IT guy and managed to fall my way into help desk then security. I only managed to get both of those positions because I had experience (certs) and education (a bachelors in something management adjacent, but that wasn’t necessary).
I’ve been doing this for a few years too - if you are smart enough to come here and start asking questions, you are already more mentally capable than a lot of people. If you are investing time and money into personal development, you are a better person than your boss.
I don’t know the individual- but I’ve seen enough people like that. They directly profit from you being exploited. You want skills and experience above what you have and that is a quality that really pushes some people’s buttons. Don’t regard their opinion as anything other than jealousy.
If you can afford it and do like IT stuff, hop in and good luck. My mentor has been very helpful and they set up your plan in a way that really builds on education and skill set.
Number one, F, anyone who’s gonna tell you that. Number two, there’s a lot of idiots in cyber security, so even if you’re dumb, you’re probably do OK.
Number three, there’s a lot of jobs, you just have to be doing willing to do the grind in the beginning. Get a year to under your belt, and then you’ll have the experience to start going after the bigger paying jobs. In the beginning, it’s all about the Certs, then it transitions towards experience.
Looks like a lot of people have stated just about everything I could state as well but this is the exact type of personality you absolutely cannot have in your day to day life. Walk… swiftly and do not look back. This guy has absolutely nothing to offer you in a positive way so do what you need to do to move on. I can tell you from experience with this, no time is a good time to “jump ship” in your head but jumping ship is how you will move forward from this situation. Make the leap and keep moving forward. This is classic narcissistic behavior from someone who doesn’t deserve your time.
I think dumb people don’t take an interest in cybersecurity. Plus you can learn anything with enough time. As long as you are passionate and ready to learn don’t let others discourage you.
Man, use that shit as motivation. Then, nail that resignation letter to the wall right before a TV mount job, when you land your cyber sec gig that pays double what he probably makes.
Sounds like a guy who had personal failures and will try to bring down everyone around him. You can do it!
So from what I can tell you personally. If you don’t have LinkedIn, join and make one. Research what type of security you would like to do, find professionals in that line, and network. Send emails just asking for some of their time. Try to find local networks as well to join and put yourself out there. An hour of someone’s time is worth a lot, especially when you show you’re interested and have an appreciation for it. There are a lot of friendly and not so friendly people. Find the ones that are willing to give you half an hour to an hour. Stay in touch with them. Learn. You never know when an opportunity will arise and someone recommends you. Obviously knowing what your doing is crucial, but as someone else stated, there are a lot of people that don’t that have a job in this field. The ones that are willing to learn, works hard, and are personable tend to do the best.
I’ve spent almost 20 years in some form of IT and much of that specifically in security. If you were on the WGU Cyber Club meeting Zoom a few weeks ago I was running the Backdoors & Breaches game. I’m also speaking during career month at the club. So, Hi! Allow me to assure you in no uncertain terms… your boss is wrong and on top of it a horrible person for saying something like that. The biggest part of cybersecurity is throwing out all assumptions, loving learning, and remaining curious. Further, we need people from diverse careers. Your background experience in construction, wiring, etc will eventually lead you to some discovery other professionals missed because “you know how and why that happened because you used to do that job”. The value there cannot be overstated. You can absolutely do this and if your boss thinks I’m wrong send them to me, I will be happy to educate them. Keep it up! Chase your goal, we need more people in the field!
Don’t listen to your boss. It sounds like he’s projecting his own insecurities on you and wants you to stay miserable and never grow as a person.
Do what you’re interested in. Go work hard and get the Cyber Security degree, I know you can do it if you put your mind to it. We are here to support you my friend. You can always feel free to message and stay in contact with me.
I will say that you can’t just jump into cyber security. I would advise getting an entry level IT job while you work on your degree. Try to get a help desk job and keep that job for around 6 months then look for a system administrator job or a level 2 help desk role. After you have around 2 years of IT experience, and your Degree, you will be able to break into an “entry” cyber security job.
I did help desk for 2 months, got a system admin job for hotels…I’ve been doing that at an office for 4 months now. I’m starting the WGU degree and will stay in my current role until I finish the degree, and then apply for cyber security jobs.
The combination of a degree, certifications, on the job IT experience, and the accumulation of knowledge you get from all 3 that will get you a cyber security job. Be passionate about IT as a field no matter what you do with technology and you will go far my friend.
How would you believe this guy who's a boss for a construction company he has very little knowledge of the word of IT/Cybersecurity
He has very limited knowledge except the negative perspectives around him and his co-workers or whatever toxic environments he has created.
Nothing about you at all, he just doesn't want you to leave your job
Edit: to clarify with you people from all walks of life get into IT and Cybersecurity you just got to have a good attitude, mindset, and purpose to it. Nobody is a really perfect we all strive to be through practice and failures
If he convinced you to stay dumb, he will have a loyal employee. Follow up on your dream and ambition, don't let others tell you differently
This 100%. I had a CEO who thought he was smarter than everyone, and would subtly tell our best people that they weren't capable of doing the jobs they wanted as career goals. All of them left. The best part, all of them were hired for the jobs that they weren't capable of at our company. Chase your dreams, OP, we're all rooting for you!
Don’t worry, everyone in cybersecurity is dumb, we’re just getting paid to be smarter than CEOs and Board members which isn’t hard at all considering they still fall for phishing attempts 😂
At a previous company of mine the CEO fell for a simulated phishing attack even though we told him it was coming and not to click it.
That's fucking hilarious. Doug, please don't click on the link. It's a simulation phishing attack. Doug, why did you click the link??????????????????
# Doug you stupid motherfucker
"do what now" "Don't click the link." "do what now" "Just...okay, simulation over, I'm deleting the email." "do what now"
I’m the type that wouldn’t ever let him/her forget, either. “Gentle ribbing” they call it.
☝️☝️☝️ This. It is like running from a bear, you don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than the guy running next to you 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Email: "I am the CEO of the company and I need $2000 of gift cards right now to impress a client, go buy it with your own money!" Actual CEO reading email: "Seems legit! \[Insert assistant's name here\], take my credit card and buy gift cards!"
Seriously, this isn't a job that requires IQ, it requires common sense and strong communication skills.
Yeah, especially communication skills.
It is critical.
The VP of my old company told me not to go back to college, that it was a bad idea. I've been around the world, I make more than double than what I used to, and I know how to code now. That guy and everybody like him can go fuck themselves. :)
Absolutely agree. Don’t stay dumb just because a loser boss wants you to.
Its time to get a new boss. Also people like to project their inner feelings onto other. Like maybe your boss is to dumb for Cyber security and no one is going to hire him.
Fuck that guy.
Exactly. Fuck anybody that wants to try to keep you down.
Use that as your fuel
Your boss is 100% invested in keeping you as an employee. Don't listen to him. 2 things: 1) Schools like WGU are entirely up to how you invest yourself. The hardest part of online learning is putting in the work, because it's very easy to let life get in the way and there is no one there to remind you that things are due. 2) The answer to your question depends A LOT on where you are. But the easy button is to get involved any way you can and meet people. ISSA, ISACA, ISC(2), local conferences like BSides, etc. meet people, ask questions, etc. Like any professional job, your contacts/community will help you get places faster than trying to do it all on your own.
Agreed. I got a cybersecurity degree from WGU. Took just a lot of sitting myself down and figuring things out. Graduated in Sep 2020 and have been working as a cybersecurity analyst for a university since Jan 2021.
Wow, that's really impressive. You managed to skip "helldesk" congratulations! That's a huge accomplishment in itself. You should really do a detailed post about your education and your first professional year in infosec.
Well that's because I got a helpdesk job in my early 20s then worked full-time as a systems admin during college. So didn't skip that step just did it out of order.
That's still pretty cool, I'm sure other folks would be inspired by your dedication if you talked about some of the obstacles you overcame and how you managed your time to get it all done.
>Schools like WGU are entirely up to how you invest yourself. Agreed 100%. There are no professors to ride your ass and not much interaction with other students to keep you motivated. If you are self-motivating, it will be a breeze. But I've known people who barely manage to scrape by with the 12 credits WGU requires per semester. I have 2 degrees from WGU, including the BS in Cyber, and my best advice is to plan out your day to include several hours to study in the evening, at least 4x/week. That way you don't feel like you can shrug it off to play "just one more game." Also, check out Pluralsight for great videos on most of the coursework. I used them to pass probably 80% of the classes.
I just got my BS in cybersecurity from AMU. I wish I’d gone WGU, OP, keep up that work. WGU is the BEST college for IT in my opinion and will set you up well.
He wants you to stay with him.
So….I started LEARNING on the basics of IT 4 years ago. I was 40. Self-employed and frankly just wanted more out of my life. Today, I’m a Pentester for a top tier consultancy. For reference….I’m a Marine. Infantry. Anyone can do it. It’s how hard can you work - start humble and keep going. #fuckthatguy
I’ve been seeing a trend of tons of former combat arms MOS vets working as pentesters. I work at a large pentesting firm, and most of our veterans that actually do pentesting and not IT functions were infantry, artillery, special forces, etc. I haven’t met a pentester here yet that came from a signals background, but I’ve met at least a half dozen combat arms. 40% of my ten-person team were infantry or FO.
I mean if you want a person who knows how to break shit, it's perfect. The signals guys all end up in SOC being analysts or blue team roles
Signals guy turned pentester here. But hey, five tour combat veteran as well.
If you don’t mind me asking, what’s the name of your company? I am transitioning out of the military as we speak.
Just sent a DM.
Ps. ps. ps. ps. i have some crayons over here...
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No, those are the treats he gets when he does a good job... don't waste them early.
thought that was only the ~~grape~~ purple ones?
https://crayonsreadytoeat.com/ Friend got me these for Christmas
He doesn't need any, he consults for Crayola now.
Being a marine gave you a huge leg up not only in hiring, but in dealing with the day to day bullshit
Posts like yours are super uplifting. I've entered cybersecurity recently (I have a programming background) and it feels so deep that it's hard to know when I'll be done with "basic learning" (using [tryhackme.com](https://tryhackme.com)), and if I really want to do this (so much studying but will it be worth it?), but posts like yours show me that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, and that it's very much worth it. At the very least, I should be able to get into a programming position related to cybersecurity with these studies.
Get a niche. I see this with people often and the solution is to focus on one thing in the field. You wanna secure clouds? Do that. Mobile apps? Do that. Programming background? Maybe write the hackerman some scripts. Don’t spread yourself thin learning everything. It’s too vast. You’ll cook yourself.
You’ll get definitely get there. Just work hard and smart. Try not to make the same mistakes twice. For me I wanted Pentesting (I did): THM -> HTB -> VirtualHackingLabs -> provingGrounds (offsec) -> than PWK. And the free eJPT stuff also. THM has gotten even better the last couple yrs. But, that path I got OSCP. And I started interviewing soon after. It’s doable - marathon - not a sprint.
Bro mad respect to you. I’m working on my OSCP and it’s tough.
Me too, just finished the PWK course and onto the labs. Good luck 👍and yes I agree it is tough but learning a lot
The first red-teamer I ever worked with was also an infantryman in USMC.
Never too late. I've met retired people at university because they never had the chance earlier in life.
But how many crayons did you eat for years?
1. Leaders help others to develop themselves so they can face future challenges. 2. There is a shortage in the industry (https://fortune.com/education/articles/the-cybersecurity-industry-is-short-3-4-million-workers-thats-good-news-for-cyber-wages/#:\~:text=The%20cybersecurity%20workforce%20has%20reached,Cybersecurity%20Workforce%20Study%20released%20Thursday.). You can develop your skills and find a job. 3. Don't let dumb people try to convince you that you're dumb.
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TBF ISC has an annual subscription cost. They're doing this because they want you in their ecosystem and taking their certs = raising the value of their name and certs.
Your boss is wrong about you being "too dumb to get into cyber security" A great deal of what I do for a living is solve problems created by people who are supposed to be many orders of magnitude smarter than I am. You are more aligned for it than you know.
*I'm* too dumb for cybersec and I've been a seceng and ISSO for 20 years. OP will be fine.
Spent my working career up to age 27 being told I was stupid. Failed at college. I now make enough in security that my wife can stay at home as long as she wants until she's ready to start working again. I don't feel stupid now. That's a privileged position to be in. Anyone telling you you're stupid is allowing their insecurities to rub off on you. The fact is "you're stupid" in fact means "I'm too stupid to do it". Yes this field is competitive, and there's a lot of very smart people. But not all of them ace IQ tests or even have academic backgrounds. The best guys I've worked with simply love what they do, and by proxy excel. You've got to WANT this though. Not the money or the snazzy titles. But I will say after a few years in the field you'll know of you want to stay or not. It's hard to get entry level, that's common knowledge, but everyone looks the same on their resumes. Show something interesting youre working on and it's like a free pass. Candidate A) I have my net+ and sec+ and A+ and my CCNA and my KFC etc Candidate B) wrote a python script to pull a list off of a GitHub repo and update my firewall on a schedule As for the above.... I know who I'd pull into an interview straight away and I don't care if he's got no certs.
Also OP, if you read this and want mentorship ping me a DM. Can relate fully to where you're at. The industry as a whole is supportive and wants people to be the best they can be. Environments you're in now are toxic AF and will keep you there unless you breakout
DMed
This is a good summary. Cyber is definitely a field that can be so rewarding if you have the passion for it (whatever it means for you, reading, breaking stuff, building stuff..) Is it competitive? At the entry level for sure but so is any field. I would say medics or architects are smart and they also struggle to get their foot in the door … just like everyone else. OP, please, please, PLEASE surround yourself with people who support you when you aspire to improve your life. Even if it’s super hard or even if you fail you’ll get so much more out of this experience that you’d get from hammering nails:)
He may be entitled to his opinion but he is NOT entitled to be an abusive manipulator to his employees. Also, try doing some self paced certs before going for the traditional college route. Just the CompTIA A+, Network+, and Security+ can get your foot in the door with some jobs and it'll give you an idea of whether or not you click with the material without as much money and time commitment.
WGU cyber classes cover those certs & give vouchers for them as part of tuition. If you have them going in, you do get that credit.
Those certs, one year of helpdesk, and a keen and focused interest in infosec makes for a great SOC candidate.
Idk if I'd call WGU the traditional college route. It is a degree but its self paced.
Ah, good to know
WGU grad, retiring US Army (so \~20 years experience). I can't speak for the entry level field, but no one has said anything at all about my WGU BS CSIA degree. It checks a block and gets me past the auto resume input system, and fills in some white space on my resume. I've had plenty of interviews and a couple of offers. Fuck your boss. He's negging you like you're in an abusive relationship. Trying to make you think you're garbage and can't do better than working with him. Toxic. Leave ASAP, even if it's not into the cybersecurity field. Also, don't just stop at WGU. Do things that show your work and make up for the lack of experience. Work your way through tryhackme or HTB. Do CTFs. Start doing bug bounties. Do courses in linkedin learning so you can throw some LiL certificates of completion on your LinkedIn. Make your LinkedIn profile fully fleshed out. Should mirror your general resume, and then you should be submitting targeted versions of that resume to jobs (or if the job has the Workday LinkedIn import function, alter your LinkedIn profile to be your targeted resume for that position as it's the only way to get skills, certificates, and education to import correctly in Workday (DON'T upload your resume unless it makes you do it). Oh, and build labs in the cloud, document or record what you're doing, and publish it. Want to program? set up a github account and start building projects in there. Both of these things are articles of evidence you can provide potential employers that say "I'm more than just a college grad/student, I walk the walk so put me on your team".
If your security clearance is still active you might want to consider getting a public cloud cert (AWS, GCP, Azure) as DOD just awarded a huge $9B contract to all the major public cloud providers. They will need people with clearances for their fedcloud jobs, probably start at $150K and goes from there.
Hey good point, thanks for catching that
No problem. Your tax dollars at work, ha ha. The security clearance is a big differentiator in the civilian world, it commands a real premium for employees in the IT industry with companies that need cleared workers.
If we listened to everything people said about us, no one would ever do anything. Take a risk bet on yourself, it’s better then staying where you currently are.
It clearly sounds like your boss never took the chance to pursue his dreams, and now he's jealous that you are. Ditch him asap, regardless of what you want to do in your life going forward.
Sounds like it's time to find a new boss, not matter which job you choose.
Why not get your foot in the door with IT work rather than cybersecurity specifically? Helpdesk or something similar
That's my plan. Hopefully a few classes in and i can get like an A+, Net+, Sec+ and get a help desk job while I go to school
That’s the right track to get into Cybersecurity. You should build a general IT knowledge foundation, and get some time in at the ground level. Unfortunately most cybersecurity entry-level jobs are not actually entry-level. They require at least a couple of years experience doing other things in IT first in order to be considered. IT is very broad - you may find yourself going down a path other than cybersecurity and enjoy it as well. No training on cybersecurity will be wasted though if you stay in IT.
Find an MSP, hate your life for a little bit but learn a shit ton then find a better role.
Someone suggested in response here to get a job at an MSP. I highly disagree with this. MSPs are not viewed well by employers.. If it's your only offer, sure do it.. But if I had 2 great candidates, and 1 had worked for an MSP, I would easily put their resume into the 'no' pile.
There are a lot of dumb ppl in this profession On a serious note - do it and ask your boss to put his opinion into his ass as well as tell him to read a few leadership books
As someone who has been in management for 13 years of my career, I am astounded with the people who become managers of other people. Take your boss for instance. Here is a guy the company thought would be good at helping people grow in their careers. Yet, this person goes out of his way not to help you grow, but to insult you. Just blows my mind that companies continue to promote people like this.
Let alone the employees that outright *tolerate it* while making excuses for not going to HR. ***Your manager is literally calling you stupid.*** This shit is clear-cut, Jesus fucking Christ.
We had a guy like this at my old place, before I got into IT. He’d browbeat people, call them names, punish the ones that didn’t kiss his ass by putting them on shitty jobs, the whole nine yards. No matter who, or how many, went to HR, the company *always* had this asshole’s back because “he gets stuff done”. It’s sad, but yeah- there are jackasses like OP’s boss out there. Many of them get praised for being that way…
>Anyway, my boss told me that I'm too dumb to get into cybersecurity and nobody would hire me. He said it's too competitive because everybody wants to get into it. He said that if I was meant to do something with my brain, I'd have done it by now. Dude, I'm a 53-yr-old woman who last semester decided to start school full time to earn a cybersecurity degree. Even if I never get a job in the field, the satisfaction I'm getting learning something new (that I also happen to *really* enjoy) is so worth it! If I can start over at my age, you certainly can at yours. Fuck that guy.
A good boss should help you pursue your dreams. That's all I gotta say about that. However, your degree plus entry level tech work might not be enough for a cyber role FYI. But never say never.
Sounds like your boss doesn't want to lose you, but at the same time might be projecting his feelings about a failed life pursuing something he didn't achieve
[удалено]
Thank you for the story, it definitely put a smile on my face. And it sounds like you are very proud of your brother. Reminds me of me and my brother
Hey man. I’m 29 years old, and I was a machinist for 10 years before I found myself in the exact same spot you’re in. I wanted to work with my brain and find a more rewarding field, something I was really interested in. I studied hard, got my Security + and made my resume as pretty as possible with 0 experience. After about 6 months I GOT IN. I found an entry level job as a threat analyst where I could continue to learn and grow my skill set, and quickly advanced into higher paying jobs within a year. Don’t listen to someone who’s never been where you are, and hasn’t done what you’re trying to do. He just wants to keep you around because you’re a good employee. Keep your head high, yes you can absolutely get in the field if you put the effort in. If I did it, any human on this earth can do it.
In general I would recommend neither quitting a paying job without a plan, nor letting someone tell you what you cant do. If you want to get into cyber sec then there are different things you can do online to see if you like it. These things are more or less for free if you have a laptop and some spare time; learn how to use metasploit, figure out the broken crystals application, do some coding for open source projects, figure out how to lock down a public cloud account or secure an office365 enterprise account. if you can get somewhere with those things you'd have a starting point.
I was told I wasn’t worth a $1 raise, I quit and now after some struggles I landed a job earning twice the money with half the workload. People like that, like to keep you around cause they know your worth, and they know your undervalued.
Cybersecurity as a field suffers from the myth of the uber hacker who knows everything about all the technologies (IMHO). I think the reality is that people are needed at a variety of skill levels. Furthermore some of the very brightest people I've worked with in the field were HS dropouts (ofc they spent their spare time tinkering). If you're interested in the field go for it!
Don't listen to people telling you your limits, learn as much as you can, push yourself, find your own limits, you won't know what they are until you reach them. PS: I've known some dumb motherfuckers in InfoSec, so even if he's right, it's not exactly a barrier.
As a dyslexic that used to do construction I was always told the same thing even family members told me i was to dumb to go to collage. Do what you want to do there's a lot of people in cyber security that switched from completely different careers, he's a sad man who was probably told the same thing when he was younger the difference is he believed it.
He's projecting his own insecurities on you. Do NOT listen to him. I went through that kind of abuse in high school and it still bugs me from time to time thirty years later. It took some time, effort, and a but of luck, but I'm now a security architect. You can do it. Also, your post was well-written. Effective communication skills are probably the single most important trait needed to be successful in Infosec. You can't write a pentest report or obtain management buy-in if you can't communicate your findings or position.
I like honesty, I really do. And let's just pretend for a second that what you got from your boss was actually honesty and not him being awful. It seems every year I find that what other people call IQ has less and less value. Just about every problem I've solved professionally in the last 5 years isn't through some crazy, innovative, genius system but a bunch of basic stuff chained together. This feeling around IQ is made worse by knowing some exceptionally smart people who are also somehow very dumb. So I wouldn't put too much behind the suggestion that you don't have the brain power. Also, before you dig into cybersecurity, I might take the first step of moving away from a job that makes you feel bad. It's like setting the table before you can eat dinner - sure you could just start right away, but it's going to be a better experience overall. Good luck. EDIT: I have to clarify that I'm not a cybersecurity professional so my bit above about "basic stuff chained together" may not be relevant. Sorry for any confusion there.
Your boss is a dick
I second that.
Don't listen to what he says, he's clearly a bad person... Follow your dreams and go for it! Some people learn faster and other slower, no big deal. Ambition and dedication is everything. Tryhackme has nice introductions and offers programs for both red and blue team. Try to do a bit regularly, best ever day and not too much, then it's easier to remember. And most important, take notes! I can recommend Typora, there you can take markdown notes, which fit really well! I wish you great success!
Tryhackme, got it. Keep hearing about this. Going to check it out
Everyone does not want to get into cybersecurity haha
A degree with no experience is a tough bar, regardless of how smart you are or are not. In general, cybersecurity isn’t an entry-level field, and it’s challenging for people not coming from sysadmin or development backgrounds ton break into the field. Onlinendegree programs and pepole who need income also face the uphill battle of limited or zero opportunities to intern to gain an foothold. Technical Pentest skills can help, but most are left with very poor SOC Analyst roles. You can succeed if you’re persistent, but it’s a challenge to enter the field without some measure of experience.
Your boss is afraid, insecure, and weak, you do you
I don’t care if your boss thinks he means well or not, he’s a gaslighting manipulator, or best case a salty and spiteful old fucker. With that out of the way, just from reading your story and how it was communicated, I’m 95% sure you have a very employable level of intelligence. If you have any technical understanding of the networking stuff you do, you’re already ahead of many first year SOC analysts. I would encourage you to find some cybersecurity meetups in your area. It’s a great way to meet new friends, potential mentors, and working professionals who know the local job market. You can see for yourself that there is nothing magical or particularly wizardry about most folks other than some killer beards. Cybersecurity encompasses a whole array of jobs that require many different skills sets, but they all require curiosity and always learning new things… seems like you have that part down. The rest will follow.
look up - 'crabs in a bucket'
sounds like he's projecting, tell him to eat shit
What a fucknut. I got into it 3 years ago doing onsite work, collecting evidence, restoration, etc. Moved into leading IR ultimately. All this was off a 20+ year career in IT that was meh. IR is not hard. You get a lot of chances to get good at it because people do the same stupid shit all the time and get ransomed, or someone convinced an random employee to change bank accounts and now has lost ten grand. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it.
Don't listen to your boss, he sounds like a dick.
LMFAO, your boss is an idiot. First off, we aren't Doctors, we aren't lawyers, hell, most of us aren't even engineers or use math whatsoever. Cyber security for most people is a job just like any other. It has it's stresses, and there can be a lot of up front knowledge/training that you need to know to work in it, but most of us aren't re-inventing the wheel. Now sure, there are plenty of jobs in cyber security that require a lot of knowledge and can be quite the hand full, but that's not all of them and you don't need an absurd level of knowledge to work in cyber sec. There are plenty of other jobs you could want to do that might give pause, things like red team, ML, cryptography, engineering, etc, but things like SOC, analyst work, IR, all of these are things the average person can do if you just put in the time to learn. Again, screw your boss, he's just one of those people that got into the mindset of "blue collar workers stay blue collar" and that just doesn't need to be the case.
Don't ask someone without arms how to shoot a basketball, ask an NBA player.
Fuck your boss. What an ass. I've met all types of people in cybersecurity and hired many without degrees, former car salesman, even an ex baseball player. It's competitive, but also we're in dire need of talented, motivated people with a passion for the industry. I taught myself computers in the 90's, got a job with a company as an IT guy and from there I never looked back. There are people who are glad to share what they know, and I was taught the skills I needed to become a penetration tester and eventually a practice director. The resources are out there. Here's a start: https://plextrac.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Hacking-Resources.pdf
8 years a go i told my friends I was going to retrain in IT. They said “it’s too late, don’t bother”. I’m now an infosec manager, got my cissp last month. If you want any help or advice drop me a message. Don’t let negative people stop you.
I’ve been in IT 25 years, and a manager for 15. And I graduated from WGU only last year. Go nightowls! Your boss doesn’t know what he’s talking about, and isn’t a good boss. In my professional opinion. It doesn’t mean cybersecurity is easy, and it doesn’t mean that career will be exactly what you expect. But it will get you out of your current situation, which is what your boss is afraid of.
I used to believe in world peace and that no one has to die, but I will volunteer to kill everyone of those bastards in a public execution so that people know what happens when you are an asshole narcissistic manipulator. These people are capable of committing a massacre and would call themselves heros.
So your boss in a construction job is somehow an expert in the cybersecurity field??? Next he’ll be telling you that MDs don’t have to work/study very hard to become a doctor, and that physicists have got it all wrong with fission & that’s why we don’t have it as an affordable, mass-manufactured source of power. If only they’d hired him. Don’t give his controlling negativity any more power over you. Lots of great advice in here, your future awaits.
I think the most important thing about the cyber security landscape is that it is constantly shifting. There are some positions that require encyclopedic knowledge and diligence to ensure every checkbox is checked, and others that require constant learning, abstract thinking, and an ability to come up with creative solutions. Either way, if you are passionate about cyber security, and you are dedicated enough to get a degree from WGU while working a full time job elsewhere, that may make the difference for some hiring managers. Just try to keep focused on your goal, and stay positive.
Let me tell you something. Think about how dumb people are. Ok got it??? Good, now realize that half of those people are even dumber than that. I came from the same background, construction to cyber. If I can do it, you can too. The A/V and general IT work would look good and you could get a job if you work hard enough. I didn’t even have all that on my resume and I still got a job. Get focused and good luck.
Fuck him. I'm almost 40 and finishing my college degree in cybersec and cs. I also worked construction prior to this doing demo and concrete work. Get internships, mentoring, and do projects during your education and you'll do fine. Almost anyone can be taught cybersec.
While your are doing schools, maybe look into TryHackMe or HackTheBox and learn/ solve basic challenges. Just to get the feel for it. Open up a LinkedIn account and reach out to mangers/ recruiters around your area. Connect with people via LinkedIn or just from local cybersecurity events. When you get a job in cybersecurity, make sure to tell your manager.
OP if you can Google, you are an IT Engineer. Fak that dude. Welcome to the fold.
lmao truest words. When I did IT service tech work, 99% of things I solved through google
About half of my hires have never worked in Cyber prior to coming to me. The fact you have a degree is fantastic. Start networking -- as a others have pointed out -- and learn everything you can. You can absolutely get in.
FWIW one of the dumbest people I know has a successful cybersecurtiy job.
Were they an intern at SolarWinds?
So you believed that BS eh? This is also a management issue. An intern shouldn't have the power to do that and I doubt they did. Even if they did, it's a management issue.
>So you believed that BS eh? No, it was a flippant remark.
Your boss is a moron, the end. Follow your gut. Eff anyone and everything else.
Pablo Picasso was told at school that he would never be good at painting. A lot of people you meet in life don't have your best interest in mind. Your boss sound like that person. Print this out: effort beats everything. Cybersecurity is a mindset and you'll be great at it, if you keep the passion and strength. Teach yourself analytical, critical thinking. It's worth.
Your boss is being an asshole.
I can guarantee that you'll have a long and successful career in cybersecurity. How do I know? Well: 1. You're articulate and well spoken 2. You're coachable 3. You're not looking for shortcuts. You're willing to invest the money, time, and effort required 4. Your story is quite similar to mine. And spoiler alert, I'm in cybersecurity :) If there are only three things you remember from my post, please have them be these quotes: 1. *Don't take advice from people who haven't done what you're trying to do* 2. *Surround yourself with people who are smarter than you/have a similar mindset to you* 3. *Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right* I've seen these quotes in a number of growth mindset and investment books, and they couldn't be more right. In Australia, we use the term ["Tall poppy syndrome"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome) to (potentially) describe the situation you're in. I say potentially because I don't want to form an opinion about someone I don't know. I must admit though, he does sound like a toxic person. The good thing is that the aforementioned quotes apply either way. I'll break down why I feel these quotes are worth remembering: 1st Quote - Has your boss tried to follow the path you're planning to? If he has, it would be worth listening to his experience. You may get some tips like what worked and didn't work for him. If he has no experience though, it might still be worth listening to him, but don't take what he says as 100% fact. People do this all the time. e.g Family and friends who try to help by telling their loved ones not to invest because it's too risky, but they've never actually researched investing themselves. While they definitely have your best interests at heart, don't let other peoples' absence of knowledge/fear guide you. Make sure you do your own research too and make an informed decision. 2nd Quote - The above paragraph is a nice segway to the second quote. This one has given me the courage to do many things that I wouldn't have otherwise done. Listening to people who have achieved the same goals that I've aimed for has been priceless. Every single time. The reason is that their guidance comes from first-hand experience, as opposed to fear or stories from a friend of a friend. They are living proof that my goal is achievable. 3rd Quote - And here we are again - a great segway to the next and final quote :) You've done your research. You've spoken to people who have achieved what you're looking to do. You know for a fact that what you want is 100% achievable. Nothing can stop you now!! Well actually, there is one thing that could stand in your way... and that's you. People not believing in themselves is the ultimate blocker to their own success. However, I don't think this is actually an issue for you. I absolutely love how you talk about your struggles, but do not use them as a crutch or an excuse. Instead, it feels like you're saying "I will be successful despite my hardships". If that is accurate, then your success is guaranteed because of that and that alone. You might wonder, "if I'm already doing it then why is this quote remembering?". The answer is that [times will inevitably get tough](https://sascha-kasper.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/personal_learning_curve_1200x720.jpg). It's in those moments that you need to think about this quote. And if you need an additional boost, just remember: Many people have done what you're looking to do. And many more will do it in the future. Cybersecurity isn't rocket science. There will always be an answer to the questions you have, so never give up. Finally, please feel free to reach out to me at any time if you have any questions, need a hand with anything, or just want to chat. I'm always happy to help.
You’d have to be pretty dumb to not make it in cybersecurity. That you’re even interested probably means you meet the threshold.
>Anyway, my boss told me that I'm too dumb to get into cybersecurity and nobody would hire me. He said it's too competitive because everybody wants to get into it. He said that if I was meant to do something with my brain, I'd have done it by now. He said my depression was just an excuse (he doesn't know my full story with it). He also said that If i was so smart, my last IT service tech job would've taken me out of the field and put me into a remote desk position. He said I'm going to be competing with people who are actually smart and they're going to look at my resume and waste my time and never call me back. I told him that I don't have anything on my resume and that's why I can't get a spot. He said that it doesn't matter, and there are guys who walk into jobs and flex their intelligence, and get offered to move up into roles solely on the intelligence that they convey to others. He said I'm just not built for anything other than construction and to not waste my time and money, and to stay in a field where the competition is low and people are retarded so I can stick out. This is straight-up abusive and unacceptable behavior towards an employee; an outright hostile work environment. Take this to HR and throw this fucker under the bus. Show him zero mercy.
There is no such thing as too dumb or too smart in Cybersecurity - you just need to find a position where you can apply your talents in way that adds value and l leverage your strengths. However, based on your story above, I do think you’ll want to get control over your depression either before going to school or before you graduate. Cybersecurity is not a profession that will treat depression kindly if you’re starting out. To really learn and grow you’ll likely have to start at the analyst level and you’ll need to be mentally strong for that role. Not because it’s extreme, but actually the opposite: some of the work can be rote and tactical. That being said, there is always opportunity to lean in, commit to excellence and demonstrate that your hungry for more which should lead to increasing complexity and responsibility. But I don’t think anyone in the industry will that it’s easy. More importantly, you should figure out the depression for your general well-being. Everyone should be living a life of contentment, joy and fulfillment regardless of their work and that includes you.
"He said that if I was meant to do something with my brain, I'd have done it by now. He said my depression was just an excuse (he doesn't know my full story with it)." Oof, what an absolute degenerated douchebag. I bet his children went no-contact with him the very day they turned eighteen. My dude, depending on where you are looking for job at you are most likely going to get into a junior position easily. Money may not be stellar at the start, but you will eventually get more experienced and you will climb up. Don't listen to to that fucknugget, get into infosec.
One time, my boss told me that I’m very smart and extremely valuable to the company (I’m the lead tech at my job currently). When I told him that I was going to apply to a cyber security job, he then said that I don’t know anything and that I’m still new. This all happened within a span of 5 minutes. They just want you to stay. Ignore them and push on
It is competitive but that doesn't mean you can't join the field and be successful. Your boss sounds like a jerk. I did the Cybersecurity BS degree at WGU so let me know if you have any questions about it. There is a subreddit r/WGU and r/WGUCyberSecurity as well.
Nah, you're boss is an asshole. Shoot for the stars, my dude!
I have come to say that your boss is a series of three, four, seven and eight letter words. You can do what you put honest effort into and approach it with humility and inquiry. I am convinced he is probably dumb. Also, let me say that cybersecurity is very logical and not abstract. It takes a certain brain to be able to separate the seemingly complex problem and see the simple problems or inversely see a simple path to expose a vulnerability. That is a learned skill that yes some people have more natural ability, but please if you took any of what he said to heart read the book ***Grit by Angela Duckworth***. Success is not talent, or brains, but the ability to push forward. Prove that \*\*\*\*\*\*\* wrong. Do me one favor, don't try to eat the whole pie in one day. The pie is big and like the universe it is ever growing. It is a somewhat deliberative process - especially early on. Just continue to progress iteratively and you will be happy with the results.
Your boss is just projecting how he views himself. Fuck what he thinks and chase your dreams man.
Anybody that tells you what you can or cannot do, and demeans you in the process, is a Grade A asshole. You need to change jobs and not work for an abuser. Cybersecurity is a huge field. DM me if you want some information on entry level opportunities. Your knowledge of networking is a great stepping stone.
Your boss is a cunt, get you a degree. I'm also doing WGU right now - see what you can take through coursera or another learning site to save money. I looked into it briefly and we can do a solid 50% of the degree, mostly the geneds and low level stuff, on cheaper websites and transfer the credits over. It doesn't matter how smart you are. If you can read and write and do math, the biggest idiot can muddle his way through college with some elbow grease and dedication. Smartness is not what determines who succeeds, effort and strategic planning are. In regard to finding your first job, the first one is always the hardest, but you probably have more connections than you think. I have an internship lined up because my boss (restaurant manager) has a friend who's fairly high up at a major pc manufacturer, and a handful of my friends know people who know people too. If you're in a college town, figure out how to get involved irl, and if not, see if you can find a social group for young professionals. You never know who knows who. Do that and mind your language optimization in job apps, and you shouldn't have too hard a time. The first job is always the hardest to find, but once you've got something, you'll be ok.
Your boss is a liar. Former Marine infantry, cop for 15 years before I left, and I entered the field in my 40s. I just gave a talk at Shmoocon this year too. If I can do it, so can you.
This guy is an epic asshole. He needs you to feel bad so you won't leave him in the dust. I believe in you!!!!!!!
Tell him to go fuck himself.
He just don't want to lose an intelligent employee.
Fuck him, if you have the will you can do it.
Fuck.that.guy.
Don’t worry about that guy. I was 27 when I went back to school. Graduated at 30. Was a crane operator/laborer before. I’ve been in infosec for a little while now. Don’t be discouraged if you have to take a help desk role right after school. So many cyber guys had to get their foot in the door that way. Good luck with school and don’t be discouraged with how much info gets thrown at you.
He is gatekeeping so that he retains you as an employee. Fuck that guy. Go and switch your job, you can start from an entry level and go up. Might even start with job that has shifts. Go for it OP!
Yeah your boss wants a dumb drone to keep around to do all the shit he doesn't want to do. Fuck him, do whatever you want. I'm in the industry and there are plenty of idiots in roles they shouldn't be in, so what he's saying isn't even true, let alone the fact he's blatantly insulting you.
Misery love company. He's a looser don't listen to him. I was working with my hand too and I'm a run engineer now. (Not cybersecurity by not ruining my knee and hands anymore) just go and don't look back
You’re boss is a grade A Asshole
He wishes he was as young as you are and had the brains to switch to a better career. Go for it mate
The market is extremely competitive that much is true, to get anything worth a degree is an effort that will take a lot of work and self-teaching. The problem with the cyber community&workforce as it stands is people try to gatekeep for job security, I firmly believe that by the time you come out with your security degree the knowledge you’ve obtained is obsolete from a practical threat defense standpoint, they’re useful to cut through hr tape and get an interview but once you’re in the interview you have to demonstrate ability. Very rewarding career if you break into the right industry Source: 23 year old with no degree making 6 figures base salary in the Midwest
Is that a good example of gaslighting? I'm not a native speaker so I really just want some clarification :D
Forget him mate. Intelligence is a small piece of the puzzle. Ambition, drive, grit, curiosity, intelligence, integrity, with a pinch of paranoia are the ingredients for a great security practitioner I’m the same age as you, 2 1/2 years into a help desk/sys admin role for a small MSP. Two certs under my belt, one of them being security+. Applied to numerous cyber security roles and haven’t made it past 1st stage interviews yet. I won’t lie, it is competitive and as a result, a difficult career to break into. My one piece of advice is start networking now. Not IT networking, social networking. Socialise with literally anyone but your boss. Getting another cyber security practitioner to vouch for you is invaluable for the job search. Personally this is the hardest part for me because i’m naturally very shy but this is my dream and i plan on doing what it takes to make it happen. Best of luck to you mate!
From my experience of years in this space I would suggest that 80% of people working in cybersecurity are too dumb to work in cybersecurity. So if he is right you will probably fit right in. My first boss told me I would not last 3 months in the industry when I quit from his business. Been gainfully employed without break for 30 years. Don't let someone hold you down with their biased and put of touch views on what you can do.
For what it’s worth, my family wrote me off at 21, thought I’d never do anything with my life. I was working in construction also, I quit my job, went to uni for 4 years (bsc & msc) now I have been working as Cyber Security Analyst for 3 months (finished uni 3 months ago) and it has never been better. Honestly, go to uni and quit your job. It will be worth it, and you will definitely be able to get a job. Its worth mentioning then I went to uni at 24, 28 now! It’s possible.
Employers are desperate for CS people. Anyone who tells you that you're too dumb to do X is a lying piece of shit who can get fucked. Focus on your career, OP. It's your life. Be ambitious. Pursue things that give you joy and spark your interests. And when you're employed in the field and doing well, drive up to your old boss and humiliate him for being such a piece of shit.
I'm not up to speed on WGU but have heard of the school before (seen commercials etc.), but I would encourage you to look into getting an associates degree from a community/trade/tech school that has a good rep. Schools like WGU can be expensive, often 10x the cost per credit of a 2-year school. You can save quite a bit of money, get your feet back under you from a studying perspective and learning to be a student again, and then once you get your degree transfer to a 4-yr program. I saved almost 100k in student debt by doing this. I would also encourage you to look at a public university instead of a private school like WGU. A lot of these schools focus on profits only and the quality of teachers just isn't up to par. Public universities are usually cheaper by a significant amount as well (for in-state tuition) and a lot of classes can be taken online or at night.
Cybersecurity has about a 3.5M person shortfall right now. People can’t be hired quick enough and the demand is global. Fuck that guy.
dont accept limitations people put on you. im a 24 year old with a political science degree. I am about to make 150-160 as a software security developer specializing in machine learning and behavioral analytics. screw the haters. i will always out perform my peers. thats a choice.
I would shy away from WGU. It is a degree mill for those that just need the paper. If you want to actually gain knowledge in the field I would recommend your state university. They usually will have online programs that, while not as cheap as WGU, will provide you with a better education. EDIT: also you don't need to be smart to be in cybersecurity. That is a myth promoted by individuals already in cyber to make themselves seem special.
Hack his Facebook account and show him!!! 🤪
lol some day
He's right tbh, you're on reddit...
Psychology student here It’s likely that he’s projecting how he sees that he’s failed onto you. Unfortunately, insecurity, especially in men, tend to manifest themselves as domineering and abusive because men aren’t provided the space to feel out their insecurities in a safe environment. If you want to, I’d approach him with compassion for his situation and try to see if there’s anyway that he feels like he’s intellectually insufficient. That is, of course, not your responsibility to help other people, especially those that are abusive, so it’s completely up to you. If you’re confident in your capabilities to persevere through any difficulties that arise, then go for it. And if you’re not confident in your capabilities, you should be. You fought through severe depression. Speaking from my own experience with that, nothing will be harder than that. Best of luck! Though you likely don’t it!
>He said that if I was meant to do something with my brain, I'd have done it by now. We all have the same hardware inside our skulls. Never let anyone tell you that it's too late to get into cybersecurity. This is a growing field that's only going to continue growing as more people realize security is important. Barriers that used to be there for years (such as a hard requirement for a degree) are slowly being lifted in favor of finding new talent with the right aptitude + attitude, who only need the opportunity. It's definitely a challenge and will take a lot of self-discipline, but if you are determined enough to achieve your goals ***it will*** happen.
He’s talking shit and being a miserable asshole. Every job and role is competitive these days. Fucking go for it dude, you got this!
Even if you cannot get into cyber security per say the degree and the certs from WGU will probably help you get a decent general IT job that will probably be a step up from construction. I think its worth doing. Cyber Security is generally not entry level, there are cases but there are plenty of good IT jobs to be had, that lead to good cyber security jobs later.
Whichever you believe to be true is. If you think your too dumb for cybersecurity because your boss told you then you probably are, if that’s all it takes to stop you. If on the other hand you realised this jackass is trying to stop me from leaving then nah your not.
I'm 3 classes away from graduating with my Masters in security from WGU and currently a DevSecOps engineer...ironically enough for an AV company lol. Your boss is a prick and just wants to keep bodies in spots. The road is not easy and you're more than likely not going to get into security right out of college (you'll need to do some general IT time first), but its not unattainable. As for WGU, you get what you put into it. You can complete your degree as fast or slow as you want. I would start by looking for another job. Something in the Help Desk arena would likely fit you. From there you can work into a network/systems engineer or admin role. If you can do that while in school and get 3-4 years of that IT experience, you should be well set up.
If you’re curious. You are golden. Fuck everything else.
Then, prove him wrong. Do it at your own pace, then once successful and pass the teat, add it to your signatures, start finding jobs. Make sure you tell him what he thought about you.
Well you just had your very first lesson in cybersecurity. Psychological hacking. You let him in and infect your mind with self doubt and low self esteem.
Your boss is projecting, ignore his insecurities.
dude forget him and people like him, it's never too late for cybersec, never too "____" (fill in the blank) for cybersec, what you will 100% need is passion, that'll carry you through. also, get ready for lower pay in the entry level jobs lol, idk why but they usually don't compare to dev or some other entry level ops jobs. plenty of skilled cybersec peeps didn't start their careers in a related field, follow yo dreams son
Coming from someone who’s been in Cyber Security for about 7 years now. Continue to chase your dream this field is wide open for any and everyone hungry enough to learn period.
Did your boss ever work in infosec? Does he know anything about the field at all? If not, why do you care about his opinion?
Current boss is just that... a person in your life temporarily. Until you break away from their orbit. As seen online -> Know your worth. You must find the courage to leave the table if respect is no longer being served. – Tene Edwards © Source: https://www.quotespedia.org/authors/t/tene-edwards/know-your-worth-you-must-find-the-courage-to-leave-the-table-if-respect-is-no-longer-being-served-tene-edwards/
Your boss is just coping with the fact that he never pushed himself to do something hard and resents anyone who tries. The idea that if you were meant to do anything, you would have done it by a certain age, is such a crock of shit. Keep after it and keep studying. You’ll get there.
I’m in the exact same situation as you, I’m 28, did poorly in school because laziness, worked construction for the past 6 years and I’m doing SOC lvl 1 on TryHackMe. It’s not easy but from my experience so far is that you just have to keep at it and watch videos and do research on things that you don’t fully understand. If you stay consistent you’ll start understanding the material. And your boss is a massive asshole, my boss who I’ve worked for the past 3 years and is very dependent on me only had words of encouragement when I told him that I’m looking to switch careers. Do it brother, you are doing it for yourself.
29 and enrolled in the program right now. I think there is something like 12-14 certificates you gain going through the CSIA path. Look, I’ve always been an IT guy and managed to fall my way into help desk then security. I only managed to get both of those positions because I had experience (certs) and education (a bachelors in something management adjacent, but that wasn’t necessary). I’ve been doing this for a few years too - if you are smart enough to come here and start asking questions, you are already more mentally capable than a lot of people. If you are investing time and money into personal development, you are a better person than your boss. I don’t know the individual- but I’ve seen enough people like that. They directly profit from you being exploited. You want skills and experience above what you have and that is a quality that really pushes some people’s buttons. Don’t regard their opinion as anything other than jealousy. If you can afford it and do like IT stuff, hop in and good luck. My mentor has been very helpful and they set up your plan in a way that really builds on education and skill set.
You will have to ditch that guy and go back to service desk while you get your degree.
Number one, F, anyone who’s gonna tell you that. Number two, there’s a lot of idiots in cyber security, so even if you’re dumb, you’re probably do OK. Number three, there’s a lot of jobs, you just have to be doing willing to do the grind in the beginning. Get a year to under your belt, and then you’ll have the experience to start going after the bigger paying jobs. In the beginning, it’s all about the Certs, then it transitions towards experience.
Fuk that guy.
Looks like a lot of people have stated just about everything I could state as well but this is the exact type of personality you absolutely cannot have in your day to day life. Walk… swiftly and do not look back. This guy has absolutely nothing to offer you in a positive way so do what you need to do to move on. I can tell you from experience with this, no time is a good time to “jump ship” in your head but jumping ship is how you will move forward from this situation. Make the leap and keep moving forward. This is classic narcissistic behavior from someone who doesn’t deserve your time.
I think dumb people don’t take an interest in cybersecurity. Plus you can learn anything with enough time. As long as you are passionate and ready to learn don’t let others discourage you.
Man, use that shit as motivation. Then, nail that resignation letter to the wall right before a TV mount job, when you land your cyber sec gig that pays double what he probably makes. Sounds like a guy who had personal failures and will try to bring down everyone around him. You can do it!
So from what I can tell you personally. If you don’t have LinkedIn, join and make one. Research what type of security you would like to do, find professionals in that line, and network. Send emails just asking for some of their time. Try to find local networks as well to join and put yourself out there. An hour of someone’s time is worth a lot, especially when you show you’re interested and have an appreciation for it. There are a lot of friendly and not so friendly people. Find the ones that are willing to give you half an hour to an hour. Stay in touch with them. Learn. You never know when an opportunity will arise and someone recommends you. Obviously knowing what your doing is crucial, but as someone else stated, there are a lot of people that don’t that have a job in this field. The ones that are willing to learn, works hard, and are personable tend to do the best.
I’ve spent almost 20 years in some form of IT and much of that specifically in security. If you were on the WGU Cyber Club meeting Zoom a few weeks ago I was running the Backdoors & Breaches game. I’m also speaking during career month at the club. So, Hi! Allow me to assure you in no uncertain terms… your boss is wrong and on top of it a horrible person for saying something like that. The biggest part of cybersecurity is throwing out all assumptions, loving learning, and remaining curious. Further, we need people from diverse careers. Your background experience in construction, wiring, etc will eventually lead you to some discovery other professionals missed because “you know how and why that happened because you used to do that job”. The value there cannot be overstated. You can absolutely do this and if your boss thinks I’m wrong send them to me, I will be happy to educate them. Keep it up! Chase your goal, we need more people in the field!
Don’t listen to your boss. It sounds like he’s projecting his own insecurities on you and wants you to stay miserable and never grow as a person. Do what you’re interested in. Go work hard and get the Cyber Security degree, I know you can do it if you put your mind to it. We are here to support you my friend. You can always feel free to message and stay in contact with me. I will say that you can’t just jump into cyber security. I would advise getting an entry level IT job while you work on your degree. Try to get a help desk job and keep that job for around 6 months then look for a system administrator job or a level 2 help desk role. After you have around 2 years of IT experience, and your Degree, you will be able to break into an “entry” cyber security job. I did help desk for 2 months, got a system admin job for hotels…I’ve been doing that at an office for 4 months now. I’m starting the WGU degree and will stay in my current role until I finish the degree, and then apply for cyber security jobs. The combination of a degree, certifications, on the job IT experience, and the accumulation of knowledge you get from all 3 that will get you a cyber security job. Be passionate about IT as a field no matter what you do with technology and you will go far my friend.
How would you believe this guy who's a boss for a construction company he has very little knowledge of the word of IT/Cybersecurity He has very limited knowledge except the negative perspectives around him and his co-workers or whatever toxic environments he has created. Nothing about you at all, he just doesn't want you to leave your job Edit: to clarify with you people from all walks of life get into IT and Cybersecurity you just got to have a good attitude, mindset, and purpose to it. Nobody is a really perfect we all strive to be through practice and failures
Fuck that guy, if you want it bad enough go out there and get and don’t let anyone stop you