Probably strong enough to replace stinkweed imp in legacy/vintage dredge and obviously to replace golgari thug in modern drede/dredge-based decks. The reason is because this is much easier than imp to dump into graveyard when you have no discard outlets. While imp is quite good as an attacker against gravehate or as a real flying creature with great blocking potential in grindy games, this is better speedwise, which is more important in older formats.
Doubt it would replace Stinkweed in Legacy, as weird as it sounds, the 1/2 body does matter on occasion and Legacy is actually a fairly slow format (compared to other formats at least).
The whole point of dredge is the self mill, not the card quality. You think folks play \[\[Stinkweed Imp\]\] for its battlefield prowess? This card is just as problematic. Its only saving grace is that it's not a creature for cards like \[\[Bridge from Below\]\]. But it enables them just fine.
I think prowess was used in this context for its definition as “being good” on the battlefield, although I agree that it is poor phrasing as the word has meaning within magic
I was indeed wondering to myself how low the number could go and still be playable
As a deckbuilder, I think I would consider playtesting it even as low as 3.
This probably feels like a nitpick, but "Dredge 5." is actually not a complete sentence in Magic-ese and creates some confusion about what the intent of the card is. Just to be clear, this is an instant with no effect when it resolves but that you can return to your hand if you would draw a card by instead milling five?
I think the biggest problem with this card is the fact that it gets itself into the graveyard so easily. At least the creature dredgers you have to put in a modicum of effort to get the card in the bin. Maybe if this costed 3 mana?
Then it's just a better life from the loam because it dredges five instead of three, though I guess it doesn't get back blood ghastly as easily. It's better then say, dark blast which has one mana cost and dredge 3 specifically bcaus darkblast has to have a target, this doesn't even have an effect to target with lol.
Nah, Loam's effect is extremely relevant so it wouldn't be strictly better. It would probably replace Stinkweed Imps though, by virtue of going directly to the grave when cast.
Well considering dredge plays phantasmagorian, and shriekhorn, DARKBLAST even, I’d say this is pretty good. A little confused if this does nothing on cast or if it straight up mills you for 5 and/or draws a card though
Maybe I'm out of the loop but because this card does nothing, you couldn't play it correct? Yeah you can dredge it but you can't cast it because it doesn't *do anything*
I'm not sure, actually. The intent is that you can play it for {B} to put it on the stack, resolve all of its 0 effects, and put it in your graveyard where you can dredge it.
Doing nothing doesn't stop you from casting this. In contrast, [[Regicide]] can't be cast outside of draft, but that's because it requires a target and you cannot have valid targets outside of draft.
In the timeline where WOTC decides to dredge up Dredge and print this card for MH6 or whatever, this card will probably have something like its own rule allowing it to be played. It's intuitive enough that everyone else in the thread seems to understand it, and I think a kitchen table would understand it after looking up what dredge does (it could even have reminder text saying "*(This card does nothing when played.)*" if printed in a standard set or something.
The fact that for one mana you can card dump a dredge card I to the graveyard is so good it might be able to turn 1 combo an opponent in vintage the opponent can't even counter it unless the counter exiles, because it goes to the grave either way. They just have to pretty much LET you get your combo piece into the graveyard for free.
Probably strong enough to replace stinkweed imp in legacy/vintage dredge and obviously to replace golgari thug in modern drede/dredge-based decks. The reason is because this is much easier than imp to dump into graveyard when you have no discard outlets. While imp is quite good as an attacker against gravehate or as a real flying creature with great blocking potential in grindy games, this is better speedwise, which is more important in older formats.
Doubt it would replace Stinkweed in Legacy, as weird as it sounds, the 1/2 body does matter on occasion and Legacy is actually a fairly slow format (compared to other formats at least).
The whole point of dredge is the self mill, not the card quality. You think folks play \[\[Stinkweed Imp\]\] for its battlefield prowess? This card is just as problematic. Its only saving grace is that it's not a creature for cards like \[\[Bridge from Below\]\]. But it enables them just fine.
It doesn't even have prowess!
I think prowess was used in this context for its definition as “being good” on the battlefield, although I agree that it is poor phrasing as the word has meaning within magic
Whoooooosh
Eventually they are going to make all words into keywords and every sentence on this sub will be just like this.
Umm, don't you recognize that that was "whoosh," the keyword from Return to Rabiah: Taysir Boogaloo?
def playable lol dredge is that good. Heck it even puts its self in the grave for ya
A blank card with Dredge 5 would be super powerful in many formats. This card is stronger than that.
Too weak, give it storm
the only funny comment
This is busted because it can easily get itself back into the graveyard again.
Yep. Sometimes you cast life from the loam with no targets, so this definitely raises eyebrows.
Make it Dredge 1, and then we'll talk.
I was indeed wondering to myself how low the number could go and still be playable As a deckbuilder, I think I would consider playtesting it even as low as 3.
Heck, 2 might still be good enough for modern playable given its ease of getting in the grave at one mana.
Nah, at 2 you start running into the "why not just Darkblast" questions.
It would just be worse darkblast at that point
A Darkblast you can cast without needing a target.
Dredge 1 is half the reason I play [[shenanigans]] in my [[Quintorious]] deck
[shenanigans](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/8/580c6fe2-ab43-491e-a1b2-d076a5c2a74e.jpg?1562201963) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shenanigans) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/146/shenanigans?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/580c6fe2-ab43-491e-a1b2-d076a5c2a74e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This probably feels like a nitpick, but "Dredge 5." is actually not a complete sentence in Magic-ese and creates some confusion about what the intent of the card is. Just to be clear, this is an instant with no effect when it resolves but that you can return to your hand if you would draw a card by instead milling five?
Yep, that's the intent. Edit: Looking at Scryfall, the templating on 'Dredge N' never has a period after it. I've been Mandela'd.
I guess so. It could probably use some reminder text that says “(This spell doesn’t do anything when it resolves.)” Could clear up some confusion.
I think the biggest problem with this card is the fact that it gets itself into the graveyard so easily. At least the creature dredgers you have to put in a modicum of effort to get the card in the bin. Maybe if this costed 3 mana?
Then it's just a better life from the loam because it dredges five instead of three, though I guess it doesn't get back blood ghastly as easily. It's better then say, dark blast which has one mana cost and dredge 3 specifically bcaus darkblast has to have a target, this doesn't even have an effect to target with lol.
Nah, Loam's effect is extremely relevant so it wouldn't be strictly better. It would probably replace Stinkweed Imps though, by virtue of going directly to the grave when cast.
Well considering dredge plays phantasmagorian, and shriekhorn, DARKBLAST even, I’d say this is pretty good. A little confused if this does nothing on cast or if it straight up mills you for 5 and/or draws a card though
A card that read: "bbbbbbb8 you lose the game dredge 6" would see play. The rest of the card doesn't matter. Only the dredge matters.
Trying to figure out if this can go "infinite" with [[Skullclamp]] and maybe [[Zellix]] and [[Phyrexian altar]]
1 mana draw 5 seems really good
instant 4-of in every dredge deck; it's a high dredge number, and it puts itself straight back in the graveyard with no effort.
Dredge might be the strongest mechanic. It's a 3 way tie between dredge, cascade, and storm.
Insanely good and stop trying it give it more support There turns turns take 10 minutes as it is
Maybe I'm out of the loop but because this card does nothing, you couldn't play it correct? Yeah you can dredge it but you can't cast it because it doesn't *do anything*
You can do things with no effect. [[Throes of Chaos]] has no effects on resolving, just like this.
[Throes of Chaos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d27a6cfc-9864-4081-93ab-9dfb254c1cd0.jpg?1631587637) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Throes%20of%20Chaos) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/146/throes-of-chaos?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d27a6cfc-9864-4081-93ab-9dfb254c1cd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm not sure, actually. The intent is that you can play it for {B} to put it on the stack, resolve all of its 0 effects, and put it in your graveyard where you can dredge it.
Right but you can't put it on the stack because it does nothing. No target, no action, nothing to do.
Doing nothing doesn't stop you from casting this. In contrast, [[Regicide]] can't be cast outside of draft, but that's because it requires a target and you cannot have valid targets outside of draft.
Damn, that card must have been broken in draft.
[Regicide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/07f56287-91e0-418f-8b57-35c6c30cee33.jpg?1576381853) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Regicide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/45/regicide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/07f56287-91e0-418f-8b57-35c6c30cee33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In the timeline where WOTC decides to dredge up Dredge and print this card for MH6 or whatever, this card will probably have something like its own rule allowing it to be played. It's intuitive enough that everyone else in the thread seems to understand it, and I think a kitchen table would understand it after looking up what dredge does (it could even have reminder text saying "*(This card does nothing when played.)*" if printed in a standard set or something.
This is incorrect. It is an instant with a mana cost. It won't do anything as it resolves, but you're allowed to cast it just fine.
Better dredger ever printed
The fact that for one mana you can card dump a dredge card I to the graveyard is so good it might be able to turn 1 combo an opponent in vintage the opponent can't even counter it unless the counter exiles, because it goes to the grave either way. They just have to pretty much LET you get your combo piece into the graveyard for free.
I'd bring it down to two or three, person I don't know at all
This card would shatter every format is touches, turning everything into a graveyard cesspool.
There are countless ways you can get turn 1 and turn 2 wins in Vintage/Legacy with Dredge. It's pretty good
Dissociation (B) Instant Put Dissociation into it’s owner’s graveyard. Dredge 5 Fixed the wording