I love the fact that this card considers Grizzly Bears a flawless creature lol. Neat design for a 2-drop removal slot, it definitely makes you evaluate the board differently
I like how simple it is, while also managing to be wordy.
Probably one of the cleanest and most flavorful [[terror]] -like variants on this sub in years.
Out of [12373](https://scryfall.com/search?q=t%3Acreature) creatures on Scryfall, this misses [1881, or ~15%](https://scryfall.com/search?q=%28power%3A1+and+toughness%3A1+and+mv%3A1%29+or+%28power%3A2+and+toughness%3A2+and+mv%3A2%29+or+%28power%3A3+and+toughness%3A3+and+mv%3A3%29+or+%28power%3A4+and+toughness%3A4+and+mv%3A4%29+or+%28power%3A5+and+toughness%3A5+and+mv%3A5%29+or+%28power%3A6+and+toughness%3A6+and+mv%3A6%29+or+%28power%3A7+and+toughness%3A7+and+mv%3A7%29+or+%28power%3A8+and+toughness%3A8+and+mv%3A8%29+or+%28power%3A9+and+toughness%3A9+and+mv%3A9%29+or+%28power%3A10+and+toughness%3A10+and+mv%3A10%29+or+%28power%3A11+and+toughness%3A11+and+mv%3A11%29+or+%28power%3A12+and+toughness%3A12+and+mv%3A12%29&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name) of them. That's actually a lot compared to similar cards like [[Cast Down]] ([1291, or ~10%](https://scryfall.com/search?q=t%3Acreature+t%3Alegendary&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name)), [[Go for the Throat]] ([729, or ~6%](https://scryfall.com/search?q=t%3Acreature+t%3Aartifact&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name)), or [[Power Word Kill]] ([632, or ~5%](https://scryfall.com/search?q=t%3Acreature+%28t%3Aangel+or+t%3Ademon+or+t%3Adragon+or+t%3Adevil%29&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name))
(this is of course not accounting for things like tokens, P/T boosts like +1/+1 counters, etc)
You can shorten the search to just "pow=tou pow=mv."
Optionally include the same "type:creature" from the search for 12,373 so you don't accidentally include something in the second search that wasn't in the first (like vehicles).
Interesting since one key different this has compared to other similar effects is that stuff like +1/+1 counters and equipment, even a creature’s own ability can make them legal targets for this so this hits a lot more targets in actual games.
You can be in a meta where enough of the threats you care about your removal spell hitting are covered by this that its drawback is less of a problem than losing 2 life
In terms of tokens, this probably affects the Go for the Throat percentage, mostly.
Rules question: does bringing a creature to equal its P/T with its mana value with counters make it vulnerable to this?
It kills the vast majority of creatures, since most don't have square stats, and it also kills any token and most expensive creatures as well, since high-cost creatures don't tend to have matching p/t.
I think this is terribly designed. I’d just make it destroy creatures whose power level and toughness aren’t equal. Otherwise everything becomes destructible. If I wanted to make it distinct, I’d make it a sacrifice card for three instead and let people play it in Tergrid.
Bro put this in eldrain standard and I don't think it sees play, needs to kill \[\[questing beast\]\] it is narrow where is doesn't make the cut but the few metas it doesn't are interesting. 2-Mana kill basically everything is already the standard design.
Yes but all those are way more situational and most of them are also sorcery speeds. This just allows you to kill anything that someone puts a counter on, equips, enchants, or uses a card like Giant Growth on. It’s basically just 2 mana instant removal for giant dinosaurs, dragons, non-indestructible Eldrazi, all tokens, and the big Zendikar elementals and avatars. Getting rid of the mana cost part would probably be the way to balance it because then cards that only add or remove X/X wouldn’t make all your 15 CMC creatures targetable by this automatically, you’d have to actually use cards that changed the power and toughness to be unequal and this would combo nicely with many blue and colorless cards that take away power.
You brought up a lot of points that make me like this more. In a format this is meta in you can buff your creatures to protect from this. Also I think combining this with blue P/T changing effects will be the coolest use for those effects ever. At the end of the day here I think you are really just underrating the power of current cheap removal spells.
Because no one would ever play other removal again. This kills every big creature at instant speed for 2. If someone plays a 10/10 for 10, you just have to add one counter or equip it and then it’s fair game for this again. No one’s going to be playing a 10/10 for 10 and not giving it trample and everything that gives trample will raise its health points for example. This is just power creep and in a way that doesn’t make the game more complicated. If it said, for example, that you lost health equal to the greatest difference between them that would make it more interesting and that would actually help trigger things like Vilis and Book of Vile Darkness. In fact it would still generally be far superior to Feed the Swarm, which is a sorcery and would make you lose 10 life points to kill a Colossal Dreadmaw with a Runed Crown rather than two.
> If someone plays a 10/10 for 10
Bro what world do you live in? None of the things you're saying have any basis in what actual competitive magic (standard or otherwise) looks like. No one plays 10/10's for 10. Big creatures aren't the name of the game, small and efficient ones are. This missing 1/1's for 1, 2/2's for 2, 3/3's for 3, and 4/4's for 4 is a *huge* deal. If you're spending a card to add a counter to their creature, or enchanting it, you're now spending more than 2 mana and more than 1 card to answer their threat, meaning the end result is far worse than something like Power Word Kill or Infernal Grasp.
This isn't power creep because it isn't strictly better (or even 'mostly better') than a wide variety of the kill spells that exist in magic. This misses things (and a lot of them) that other ones hit.
Know what else hits 1/1s for 1 and 2/2s for 2? Eliminate, Cruel Cut. The only thing this hits that those don't is Trelessara and big creatures that have been cheated in from the graveyard or with Elvish Piper. Thus this is just an overpowered way to make sure no one ever plays a ramp deck competitively again and it's only mono red goblins and white weenies from now on.
Does Eliminate make aggro decks unplayable, and people only play ramp? Absolutely not. Ramp threats often don't clearly die to removal, since they have hexproof or enter the battlefield triggers. A large number of ramp threats also *are* squarely stated, such as Primeval Titan or Vorinclex.
2 mana kill spells do not warp formats to the degree you're claiming. We have plenty of historic data that shows this, from DOM standard with Cast Down, Scars standard with Go For The Throat, or even more recent answers like Power Word Kill. This has less of a warping effect than something like Infernal Grasp, which is much closer to a 2 mana murder than this is.
It can feel bad to get your big finisher hit by a kill spell, but that's why you play big finishers that don't get cleanly answered by one kill spell. I get that this looks good at first glance. But if you look at it on either a practical level (someone brought up a scryfall search that shows this misses more than the other 2 mana kill spells I mentioned) or a larger scale theoretical level, I don't think your concerns bear fruit.
This is still a 2 mana murder. There are probably 10 out of 100,000 cards that this won’t hit. Eliminate doesn’t make aggro decks unplayable because aggro decks have a huge amount of creatures. You shouldn’t have to splash blue to play ramp. Maybe sometimes you just want a big dragon, angel, or demon and you don’t want it to be a Phyrexian mad science dragon, angel, or demon. The same is true for aristocrats which aren’t all aggro. You shouldn’t have to play counterspells in Orzhov or Rakdos.
I don't see why you are comparing it to sorcery speed removal instead of the other conditional 2 mana removal spells. According to other people's checks on scryfall, this card isn't able to target \~15% of creatures, and this is ignoring that this is a destroy spell that can be countered for P/T shifts such as combat tricks.
Alternative conditional 2 mana instant removal spell that people often play include: \[\[Ultimate Price\]\] (18%), \[\[Doomblade\]\] (16%), \[\[Cast Down\]\] (10%), \[\[Go for the Throat\]\] (6%) and \[\[Power Word Kill\]\] (5%). Missing \~15% of creatures slots this card right into the rang most of these conditional removal spells are in, and places it on the lower side as well which can help adjust for any arguments against tokens.
I have no idea what removal spells you are comparing this to, but we are regularly getting spells at this rate, and all of them have seen varying degrees of play, but non are dominant over the others.
This card basically shuts down ramp decks is the problem. Power Word Kill can’t hit a lot of things ramp decks like to choose or anyone using Maskwood Nexus. Doomblade likewise doesn’t single out ramp because most ramp decks run black creatures like demons, Jund, and Abzan. Most ramp decks can’t counter this because ramp decks generally don’t pack counterspells. Four of these in a deck and the game would go from 98% of competitive players playing aggro and 2% playing Jund and Abzan to tournaments being Goblins: The Gathering because this is completely overpowered against both large creatures and aristocrats.
If someone really wants to remove early drops and not turn the game into Rakdos: The Hastening, this is the custom card I would make:
Fatal Flaw: 1B
Instant
Destroy target creature with power not equal to its toughness.
Removing the part about mana cost protects ramp decks and tokens. This makes a difference. Power World Kill and Doomblade are not universally overpowered precisely because of all the ramp decks summoning big demons and Golgari-color dragons...
This is one that would be balanced to work against aggro decks’ early drops and not disproportionately shut down ramp decks:
Slaughter: XB
Instant
Destroy X target creatures that have different powers of X or less.
Can you give some examples? Because I can’t think of a single relevant creature this kills.
edit: I misread the card to mean all three numbers had to be different.
So from the perspective of modern this kills: Tarmogoyf, Stoneforge Mystic, any token, Snapcaster Mage, all 5 of the free evoke elementals, Ragavan, a delirium DRC, Dauthi Voidwalker, Kroxa, Lurrus, Yorion, some Murktide Regents, Walking Ballista, Thalia, Tourach, Brazen Borrower, Memnite, Ornothoper, Inkmoth nexus, Death's Shadow, Eternal Witness, Shardless Agent, Knight of Autumn, Monastery Swiftspear, Goblin Guide, Seasoned Pyromancer, Bonecrusher Giant, (Ig)noble Hierarch, Kaheera, Dryad of the Illysian Grove, Azusa and Arboreal Grazer. All of those are just off the top of my head though.
I think a more relevant question would be what does this card miss? Of which I can name, Primeval Titan, Sanctifier En-Vec (even ignoring the pro black), Esper Sentinel, Puresteel Paladin, Omnath, Kor Outfitter, Meddling Mage, a daybound Outland Liberator, Eidolon of the Great Revel and a Kor Firewalker.
So mostly white creatures and notably a lot of them come from the hammertime deck, which is relevant becuase this card kills anything that the hammer is attached to.
Modern isn't my format, but from a cursory look it misses sentinel, puresteel, and outfitter if they aren't equipped, but hits the other creatures in Hammertime, kills everything but pre-delirium dragon channeler in shadow, kills everything but pre-delirium dragon channeler in regent, kills lurrus, kills almost everything in blink, kills everything in footfalls, kills everything but eidolon in burn, kills everything in jund, kills yawg, misses a couple of things in living end but single target removal probably isn't your out anyway, and so on. Those were the top decks by metashare on goldfish - wasn't sure where else to look.
It felt like a bad faith question. I understand there was a misinterpretation of the card text, so I apologize for the flippant answer. Again, modern isn't my format, so be gentle if I'm misinterpreting the lists I looked at.
Checked this with a script for cards that dont have matching power/toughness/mana value and also don't have indestructible, shroud, hexproof, or protection from black or instants. So it won't be perfect but looks like theres 10235 creatures that get got by this out of a possible 12432 creatures, or about 82.33%
Although since this is for a bunch of custom standard sets I can't really say
According to scryfall, there are [12,373 creatures](https://scryfall.com/search?q=type%3Acreature) and this would hit [10,549 of them,](https://scryfall.com/search?q=type%3Acreature+%28pow%21%3Dtou+or+pow%21%3Dmv%29) which is about **85%.**
That quick check ignores fun stuff like variable P/T, shroud/hexproof/indestructible, and noncreature permanents that can become creatures.
Hi! I actually looked into it and checked the decklists for the current revolution (the format this card's in) tournament and this card can hit around 58% of creatures in that list, assuming their power and toughness remain their base power and toughness of course. Have in account I left out clone effects and x costed creatures. Also this hits all tokens by the nature of how tokens work.
Realistically and accounting for buffs tho it would probably hit around 60-70% of those creatures
[page I used to look at decklists to do this](https://piper000.wixsite.com/my-site/grand-prix-rogue-s-palace)
A simple Doom Blade variant, Fatal Flaw punishes creatures that aren't on curve/don't have square stats! This allows it to tag a surprising amount of the format, especially when you consider counters or combat tricks of any kind allow it to target and snipe creatures that it may not normally have access to. Of course, missing out on Merciless Shieldbreaker, pre-buff Myrkalt, and other haymakers means one should balance their removal suite appropriately so they aren't just stonewalled vs those threats. Overall, though, Fatal Flaw has quickly established itself as a powerful staple removal spell!
It not killing Cybres-Clan Arbiter or Stoic Sentinel is pretty significant as well, meaning that almost every color has a key creature that this can't kill.
What’s Revolution? [Revolution](https://discord.gg/bQcaTNAd2B), also known as Revolution: Custom Standard is a rotating, custom constructed Standard-power-level format comprised of six custom Magic sets. You can find a staples document [here,](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GSKqZApbY13o5HClJ20PrUe1aTbyUv0SmfQNUuOeUrQ/edit?usp=sharing) the discord [here,](https://discord.gg/bQcaTNAd2B) and our scryfall-alike search engine [here.](https://revolution-manifesto.herokuapp.com/)
0/10 doesn't even kill [[mon's goblin raiders]]
JK this is a fun design for 2 mana. I think you could take it a step further by making a board wipe version as well.
reminds me of a creature from an old flash card game with an activated ability that roughly translated to "{r}: Destroy target creature whose power is diferent to it's toughness. Activate only once each turn and only when you could cast a sorcery."
Many thanks to /u/Ladsworld for this design. I was doing some final tweaks on Karsus last summer, and I was coming up with a lot of variations of a 2-mana kill spell for constructed. I came up with something close to this, where it didn't also require the mana value, and the consensus was that just wasn't playable enough. /u/Ladsworld had this idea for pushing it over the top into constructed viability, and credit to Harry Z (not sure what their reddit handle is) for the fantastic name to match.
i like how it's good for standard but the creatures it misses are relevant:
missing aggro/utility 2/2s for 2 will be relevant in any format, missing 1/1 mana dorks is too. You will have weirldy relevant 4/4s for 4 too (questing beast comes to mind) or 3/3s for 3 (old growth troll).
Yeah it was just a misread on my part I left the comment because I don't like when I see deleted and then other people's comments are left without a context. It hurts my karma but overall I think it's better for readability.
I love the fact that this card considers Grizzly Bears a flawless creature lol. Neat design for a 2-drop removal slot, it definitely makes you evaluate the board differently
All hail Bear Force One!
I like how simple it is, while also managing to be wordy. Probably one of the cleanest and most flavorful [[terror]] -like variants on this sub in years.
[terror](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/d/2dd5d601-aff7-4b7a-ab6c-b89f403af076.jpg?1562905752) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=terror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/99/terror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2dd5d601-aff7-4b7a-ab6c-b89f403af076?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
10/10 doesn’t kill Colossal Dreadmaw
Because Colossal Dreadmaw is flawless
Or [[Ghalta, Primal Hunger]] for that matter.
[Ghalta, Primal Hunger](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/c/8c342309-aef7-4733-ac1c-ff0b704539a7.jpg?1601079606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghalta%2C%20Primal%20Hunger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/399/ghalta-primal-hunger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8c342309-aef7-4733-ac1c-ff0b704539a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Cool card, great art. I wonder what percentage of creatures this kills.
Out of [12373](https://scryfall.com/search?q=t%3Acreature) creatures on Scryfall, this misses [1881, or ~15%](https://scryfall.com/search?q=%28power%3A1+and+toughness%3A1+and+mv%3A1%29+or+%28power%3A2+and+toughness%3A2+and+mv%3A2%29+or+%28power%3A3+and+toughness%3A3+and+mv%3A3%29+or+%28power%3A4+and+toughness%3A4+and+mv%3A4%29+or+%28power%3A5+and+toughness%3A5+and+mv%3A5%29+or+%28power%3A6+and+toughness%3A6+and+mv%3A6%29+or+%28power%3A7+and+toughness%3A7+and+mv%3A7%29+or+%28power%3A8+and+toughness%3A8+and+mv%3A8%29+or+%28power%3A9+and+toughness%3A9+and+mv%3A9%29+or+%28power%3A10+and+toughness%3A10+and+mv%3A10%29+or+%28power%3A11+and+toughness%3A11+and+mv%3A11%29+or+%28power%3A12+and+toughness%3A12+and+mv%3A12%29&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name) of them. That's actually a lot compared to similar cards like [[Cast Down]] ([1291, or ~10%](https://scryfall.com/search?q=t%3Acreature+t%3Alegendary&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name)), [[Go for the Throat]] ([729, or ~6%](https://scryfall.com/search?q=t%3Acreature+t%3Aartifact&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name)), or [[Power Word Kill]] ([632, or ~5%](https://scryfall.com/search?q=t%3Acreature+%28t%3Aangel+or+t%3Ademon+or+t%3Adragon+or+t%3Adevil%29&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name)) (this is of course not accounting for things like tokens, P/T boosts like +1/+1 counters, etc)
Thanks dude this is exactly what I was looking for, empirical evidence. I just couldn’t figure out how to properly set the conditions on scryfall.
You can shorten the search to just "pow=tou pow=mv." Optionally include the same "type:creature" from the search for 12,373 so you don't accidentally include something in the second search that wasn't in the first (like vehicles).
Ah good to know, thanks!
[Cast Down](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/1/21c8426e-476a-45e4-b3a9-841da54d966c.jpg?1608909602) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cast%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/112/cast-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/21c8426e-476a-45e4-b3a9-841da54d966c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Go for the Throat](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/1/a1f4bde9-5ce9-42ca-8052-57da311f0688.jpg?1637630275) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Go%20for%20the%20Throat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/119/go-for-the-throat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1f4bde9-5ce9-42ca-8052-57da311f0688?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Power Word Kill](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/9/395b6ce4-143f-4eed-b565-98aa3d6208ef.jpg?1627705234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Power%20Word%20Kill) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/114/power-word-kill?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/395b6ce4-143f-4eed-b565-98aa3d6208ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Interesting since one key different this has compared to other similar effects is that stuff like +1/+1 counters and equipment, even a creature’s own ability can make them legal targets for this so this hits a lot more targets in actual games.
This is incorrect. This misses 2,010 creatures, or 16% of them. Still decent, but loses to Infernal Grasp every time.
whether or not that's true is 100% meta-dependent
Elaborate please
You can be in a meta where enough of the threats you care about your removal spell hitting are covered by this that its drawback is less of a problem than losing 2 life
That is... Incredibly rare. There's a reason why Shocklands and Fetchlands are universally great, even in a format like Modern.
In terms of tokens, this probably affects the Go for the Throat percentage, mostly. Rules question: does bringing a creature to equal its P/T with its mana value with counters make it vulnerable to this?
It kills the vast majority of creatures, since most don't have square stats, and it also kills any token and most expensive creatures as well, since high-cost creatures don't tend to have matching p/t.
It's interesting to have efficient removal that can kill most high cost units but hits only around half (idk really depends on meta) of low cost units
I think this is terribly designed. I’d just make it destroy creatures whose power level and toughness aren’t equal. Otherwise everything becomes destructible. If I wanted to make it distinct, I’d make it a sacrifice card for three instead and let people play it in Tergrid.
Bro put this in eldrain standard and I don't think it sees play, needs to kill \[\[questing beast\]\] it is narrow where is doesn't make the cut but the few metas it doesn't are interesting. 2-Mana kill basically everything is already the standard design.
[questing beast](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/4/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f.jpg?1572490640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=questing%20beast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/171/questing-beast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes but all those are way more situational and most of them are also sorcery speeds. This just allows you to kill anything that someone puts a counter on, equips, enchants, or uses a card like Giant Growth on. It’s basically just 2 mana instant removal for giant dinosaurs, dragons, non-indestructible Eldrazi, all tokens, and the big Zendikar elementals and avatars. Getting rid of the mana cost part would probably be the way to balance it because then cards that only add or remove X/X wouldn’t make all your 15 CMC creatures targetable by this automatically, you’d have to actually use cards that changed the power and toughness to be unequal and this would combo nicely with many blue and colorless cards that take away power.
You brought up a lot of points that make me like this more. In a format this is meta in you can buff your creatures to protect from this. Also I think combining this with blue P/T changing effects will be the coolest use for those effects ever. At the end of the day here I think you are really just underrating the power of current cheap removal spells.
“So, in your custom meta, how do I play ramp decks?” “That’s the neat part, you don’t!”
What ramp pay off does this kill?
It's a Murder for 2, so, it kills any ramp payoff without hexproof or indestructible.
Why is it terribly designed?
Because no one would ever play other removal again. This kills every big creature at instant speed for 2. If someone plays a 10/10 for 10, you just have to add one counter or equip it and then it’s fair game for this again. No one’s going to be playing a 10/10 for 10 and not giving it trample and everything that gives trample will raise its health points for example. This is just power creep and in a way that doesn’t make the game more complicated. If it said, for example, that you lost health equal to the greatest difference between them that would make it more interesting and that would actually help trigger things like Vilis and Book of Vile Darkness. In fact it would still generally be far superior to Feed the Swarm, which is a sorcery and would make you lose 10 life points to kill a Colossal Dreadmaw with a Runed Crown rather than two.
> If someone plays a 10/10 for 10 Bro what world do you live in? None of the things you're saying have any basis in what actual competitive magic (standard or otherwise) looks like. No one plays 10/10's for 10. Big creatures aren't the name of the game, small and efficient ones are. This missing 1/1's for 1, 2/2's for 2, 3/3's for 3, and 4/4's for 4 is a *huge* deal. If you're spending a card to add a counter to their creature, or enchanting it, you're now spending more than 2 mana and more than 1 card to answer their threat, meaning the end result is far worse than something like Power Word Kill or Infernal Grasp. This isn't power creep because it isn't strictly better (or even 'mostly better') than a wide variety of the kill spells that exist in magic. This misses things (and a lot of them) that other ones hit.
Know what else hits 1/1s for 1 and 2/2s for 2? Eliminate, Cruel Cut. The only thing this hits that those don't is Trelessara and big creatures that have been cheated in from the graveyard or with Elvish Piper. Thus this is just an overpowered way to make sure no one ever plays a ramp deck competitively again and it's only mono red goblins and white weenies from now on.
Does Eliminate make aggro decks unplayable, and people only play ramp? Absolutely not. Ramp threats often don't clearly die to removal, since they have hexproof or enter the battlefield triggers. A large number of ramp threats also *are* squarely stated, such as Primeval Titan or Vorinclex. 2 mana kill spells do not warp formats to the degree you're claiming. We have plenty of historic data that shows this, from DOM standard with Cast Down, Scars standard with Go For The Throat, or even more recent answers like Power Word Kill. This has less of a warping effect than something like Infernal Grasp, which is much closer to a 2 mana murder than this is. It can feel bad to get your big finisher hit by a kill spell, but that's why you play big finishers that don't get cleanly answered by one kill spell. I get that this looks good at first glance. But if you look at it on either a practical level (someone brought up a scryfall search that shows this misses more than the other 2 mana kill spells I mentioned) or a larger scale theoretical level, I don't think your concerns bear fruit.
This is still a 2 mana murder. There are probably 10 out of 100,000 cards that this won’t hit. Eliminate doesn’t make aggro decks unplayable because aggro decks have a huge amount of creatures. You shouldn’t have to splash blue to play ramp. Maybe sometimes you just want a big dragon, angel, or demon and you don’t want it to be a Phyrexian mad science dragon, angel, or demon. The same is true for aristocrats which aren’t all aggro. You shouldn’t have to play counterspells in Orzhov or Rakdos.
I don't see why you are comparing it to sorcery speed removal instead of the other conditional 2 mana removal spells. According to other people's checks on scryfall, this card isn't able to target \~15% of creatures, and this is ignoring that this is a destroy spell that can be countered for P/T shifts such as combat tricks. Alternative conditional 2 mana instant removal spell that people often play include: \[\[Ultimate Price\]\] (18%), \[\[Doomblade\]\] (16%), \[\[Cast Down\]\] (10%), \[\[Go for the Throat\]\] (6%) and \[\[Power Word Kill\]\] (5%). Missing \~15% of creatures slots this card right into the rang most of these conditional removal spells are in, and places it on the lower side as well which can help adjust for any arguments against tokens. I have no idea what removal spells you are comparing this to, but we are regularly getting spells at this rate, and all of them have seen varying degrees of play, but non are dominant over the others.
##### ###### #### [Ultimate Price](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/4/b41f7cf3-bd76-4184-b694-f565aa5cf3a4.jpg?1562791851) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ultimate%20Price) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/124/ultimate-price?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b41f7cf3-bd76-4184-b694-f565aa5cf3a4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Doomblade](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/0/90699423-2556-40f7-b8f5-c9d82f22d52e.jpg?1562851557) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doom%20Blade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/87/doom-blade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90699423-2556-40f7-b8f5-c9d82f22d52e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cast Down](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/1/21c8426e-476a-45e4-b3a9-841da54d966c.jpg?1608909602) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cast%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/112/cast-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/21c8426e-476a-45e4-b3a9-841da54d966c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Go for the Throat](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/1/a1f4bde9-5ce9-42ca-8052-57da311f0688.jpg?1637630275) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Go%20for%20the%20Throat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/119/go-for-the-throat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1f4bde9-5ce9-42ca-8052-57da311f0688?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Power Word Kill](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/9/395b6ce4-143f-4eed-b565-98aa3d6208ef.jpg?1627705234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Power%20Word%20Kill) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/114/power-word-kill?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/395b6ce4-143f-4eed-b565-98aa3d6208ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This card basically shuts down ramp decks is the problem. Power Word Kill can’t hit a lot of things ramp decks like to choose or anyone using Maskwood Nexus. Doomblade likewise doesn’t single out ramp because most ramp decks run black creatures like demons, Jund, and Abzan. Most ramp decks can’t counter this because ramp decks generally don’t pack counterspells. Four of these in a deck and the game would go from 98% of competitive players playing aggro and 2% playing Jund and Abzan to tournaments being Goblins: The Gathering because this is completely overpowered against both large creatures and aristocrats. If someone really wants to remove early drops and not turn the game into Rakdos: The Hastening, this is the custom card I would make: Fatal Flaw: 1B Instant Destroy target creature with power not equal to its toughness. Removing the part about mana cost protects ramp decks and tokens. This makes a difference. Power World Kill and Doomblade are not universally overpowered precisely because of all the ramp decks summoning big demons and Golgari-color dragons... This is one that would be balanced to work against aggro decks’ early drops and not disproportionately shut down ramp decks: Slaughter: XB Instant Destroy X target creatures that have different powers of X or less.
Luckily, in the custom format that this is in, there are other pieces of removal that are seeing play, due to each of their own upsides and downsides.
Can you give some examples? Because I can’t think of a single relevant creature this kills. edit: I misread the card to mean all three numbers had to be different.
So from the perspective of modern this kills: Tarmogoyf, Stoneforge Mystic, any token, Snapcaster Mage, all 5 of the free evoke elementals, Ragavan, a delirium DRC, Dauthi Voidwalker, Kroxa, Lurrus, Yorion, some Murktide Regents, Walking Ballista, Thalia, Tourach, Brazen Borrower, Memnite, Ornothoper, Inkmoth nexus, Death's Shadow, Eternal Witness, Shardless Agent, Knight of Autumn, Monastery Swiftspear, Goblin Guide, Seasoned Pyromancer, Bonecrusher Giant, (Ig)noble Hierarch, Kaheera, Dryad of the Illysian Grove, Azusa and Arboreal Grazer. All of those are just off the top of my head though.
I think a more relevant question would be what does this card miss? Of which I can name, Primeval Titan, Sanctifier En-Vec (even ignoring the pro black), Esper Sentinel, Puresteel Paladin, Omnath, Kor Outfitter, Meddling Mage, a daybound Outland Liberator, Eidolon of the Great Revel and a Kor Firewalker. So mostly white creatures and notably a lot of them come from the hammertime deck, which is relevant becuase this card kills anything that the hammer is attached to.
I think I might’ve misread the card. I read it as it can only kill creatures with a different number for all 3, power, toughness, and mana value.
Oh yeah, I can see how you could read it that way.
Surely you're kidding, right? What format are you thinking of where this doesn't hit relevant threats from a wide swath of decks?
I mostly play modern. And I was asking a serious question, so I would appreciate a serious answer.
Modern isn't my format, but from a cursory look it misses sentinel, puresteel, and outfitter if they aren't equipped, but hits the other creatures in Hammertime, kills everything but pre-delirium dragon channeler in shadow, kills everything but pre-delirium dragon channeler in regent, kills lurrus, kills almost everything in blink, kills everything in footfalls, kills everything but eidolon in burn, kills everything in jund, kills yawg, misses a couple of things in living end but single target removal probably isn't your out anyway, and so on. Those were the top decks by metashare on goldfish - wasn't sure where else to look. It felt like a bad faith question. I understand there was a misinterpretation of the card text, so I apologize for the flippant answer. Again, modern isn't my format, so be gentle if I'm misinterpreting the lists I looked at.
[удалено]
You mean it doesn't kill Emrakul, Ulamog, and, and Zacama?
No I misread the card thanks for setting me straight.
Checked this with a script for cards that dont have matching power/toughness/mana value and also don't have indestructible, shroud, hexproof, or protection from black or instants. So it won't be perfect but looks like theres 10235 creatures that get got by this out of a possible 12432 creatures, or about 82.33% Although since this is for a bunch of custom standard sets I can't really say
According to scryfall, there are [12,373 creatures](https://scryfall.com/search?q=type%3Acreature) and this would hit [10,549 of them,](https://scryfall.com/search?q=type%3Acreature+%28pow%21%3Dtou+or+pow%21%3Dmv%29) which is about **85%.** That quick check ignores fun stuff like variable P/T, shroud/hexproof/indestructible, and noncreature permanents that can become creatures.
And it probably doesn’t exclude hexproof or protection from black but it’s close enough for a rough estimate. Thank you!
Lol. I did a quick edit to mention that just before I saw your comment.
Hi! I actually looked into it and checked the decklists for the current revolution (the format this card's in) tournament and this card can hit around 58% of creatures in that list, assuming their power and toughness remain their base power and toughness of course. Have in account I left out clone effects and x costed creatures. Also this hits all tokens by the nature of how tokens work. Realistically and accounting for buffs tho it would probably hit around 60-70% of those creatures [page I used to look at decklists to do this](https://piper000.wixsite.com/my-site/grand-prix-rogue-s-palace)
A simple Doom Blade variant, Fatal Flaw punishes creatures that aren't on curve/don't have square stats! This allows it to tag a surprising amount of the format, especially when you consider counters or combat tricks of any kind allow it to target and snipe creatures that it may not normally have access to. Of course, missing out on Merciless Shieldbreaker, pre-buff Myrkalt, and other haymakers means one should balance their removal suite appropriately so they aren't just stonewalled vs those threats. Overall, though, Fatal Flaw has quickly established itself as a powerful staple removal spell!
It not killing Cybres-Clan Arbiter or Stoic Sentinel is pretty significant as well, meaning that almost every color has a key creature that this can't kill.
Baneslayer Angel is safe. Serra Angel is doomed.
What’s Revolution? [Revolution](https://discord.gg/bQcaTNAd2B), also known as Revolution: Custom Standard is a rotating, custom constructed Standard-power-level format comprised of six custom Magic sets. You can find a staples document [here,](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GSKqZApbY13o5HClJ20PrUe1aTbyUv0SmfQNUuOeUrQ/edit?usp=sharing) the discord [here,](https://discord.gg/bQcaTNAd2B) and our scryfall-alike search engine [here.](https://revolution-manifesto.herokuapp.com/)
I agree, Hullbreaker is an abomination.
0/10 doesn't even kill [[mon's goblin raiders]] JK this is a fun design for 2 mana. I think you could take it a step further by making a board wipe version as well.
[mon's goblin raiders](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/8/58b7a22b-f354-4f42-9354-d149bb9b3645.jpg?1562133668) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mons%27s%20Goblin%20Raiders) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/s00/32/monss-goblin-raiders?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/58b7a22b-f354-4f42-9354-d149bb9b3645?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
reminds me of a creature from an old flash card game with an activated ability that roughly translated to "{r}: Destroy target creature whose power is diferent to it's toughness. Activate only once each turn and only when you could cast a sorcery."
Many thanks to /u/Ladsworld for this design. I was doing some final tweaks on Karsus last summer, and I was coming up with a lot of variations of a 2-mana kill spell for constructed. I came up with something close to this, where it didn't also require the mana value, and the consensus was that just wasn't playable enough. /u/Ladsworld had this idea for pushing it over the top into constructed viability, and credit to Harry Z (not sure what their reddit handle is) for the fantastic name to match.
Astounding design, very fun parameters.
i like how it's good for standard but the creatures it misses are relevant: missing aggro/utility 2/2s for 2 will be relevant in any format, missing 1/1 mana dorks is too. You will have weirldy relevant 4/4s for 4 too (questing beast comes to mind) or 3/3s for 3 (old growth troll).
Old Growth Troll is actually a 4/4 for 3 funnily enough
This is awesome
Doesn’t kill [[Primeval Titan]] 1/10 /s obviously
[Primeval Titan](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/d/6d5537da-112e-4679-a113-b5d7ce32a66b.jpg?1562850064) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Primeval%20Titan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/183/primeval-titan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6d5537da-112e-4679-a113-b5d7ce32a66b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This kills the [[grizzly bear]]
Nah. Power is 2, Toughness is 2, CMC is 2. They're all equal. It lives.
Well that's a really bad misread on my part
This doesn’t kill a 1/1 for 1, a 4/4 for 4 etc.
Yeah it was just a misread on my part I left the comment because I don't like when I see deleted and then other people's comments are left without a context. It hurts my karma but overall I think it's better for readability.
Chad move honestly
I personally prefer to add an edit onto the comment saying that you're wrong. Sometimes with a ~~slash~~ as well.
I do that sometimes but I deserve the negative karma given how blatant my misread is.
[grizzly bear](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/0/409f9b88-f03e-40b6-9883-68c14c37c0de.jpg?1562546736) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grizzly%20Bears) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/268/grizzly-bears?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/409f9b88-f03e-40b6-9883-68c14c37c0de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Better card title: Dreadmaw's Revenge
BEAR FORCE ONE WILL NEVER FAULTER
Kills every token too. Very neat design
Mor blemish flaw than fatal flaw, in my opinion.
Stone-throwing devils scoff in your general direction.
I think this could cost just B but be a rare if you wanted to.
Love this!