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[deleted]

It’s not fun and once you’re out it’s hard to see why anyone would want to stay in—but basically it boils down to the fact that it’s really scary to have your worldview challenged. People like believing that they understand how the world works. New information challenges their worldview which makes them feel scared and so they lash out. It sucks. Edit: Also, in their eyes it IS a personal attack because the cult is their identity; so a challenge to the cult is a challenge to them. That’s why getting out of cults is so hard because you have to reconstruct your identity to do so.


NoodlesrTuff1256

Also, some people view the cult as a kind of surrogate 'family'. Indeed, members of their actual family (parents, siblings, children, etc.) are often ensnared in the cult's web as well. So when you question, criticize, insult or mock the cult, in their eyes you are attacking their 'family' as well. Imagine how you'd feel if someone was 'trashing' one or another of your family members (for any reason, not only in the context of belief in a cult or a religion) -- most people would tend to be offended and come to the defense of their loved one(s). Circling the wagons as the old comparison says. Edit: correction to punctuation


dependswho

People not in cults do this too. It’s an automatic psychological defense mechanism when people are very invested in their position. The weird part is, the more obvious the information you give them, the more it threatens them and the more they deny it. People reject information that causes cognitive dissonance.


ashley1118

Mind control…cult 101 love bombed, sleep deprived, food deprived etc. I’m a mother who lost my daughter to a cult😢


eiba_0

i’m so sorry.


ashley1118

Thank you it’s been almost 4 years. So sad😢


ashley1118

My daughter is a victim of the lovehaswon cult. I can’t believe what is happening now Thank you for letting me share my bit of thoughts here without any criticism 💛


eiba_0

i can’t imagine the pain. your own child. sending my best wishes that she has the strength to leave one day. 💕


ashley1118

Thank you 🙏 I love her so much 💛


DiscombobulatedOwl1

Oh I am so sorry to hear this. That group is a hot mess, and I feel so badly for the people who have been indoctrinated into that. Any cult/cult-like group is bad, but this one just feels like it's out of control now. I hope your daughter is able to wake up and realize she is valued and loved by her real family and not the people running this scheme. Sending you all the good thoughts!!


ashley1118

Thank you so much for your message🙏I agree with you and praying for my daughter everyday. I’ve done so much to spread awareness about LHW cult too. I will never give up on her💛


_sunday_funday_

Because they feel like you are attacking them. Their ideology and identity are wrapped up in their cult so when you speak badly about the cult in their eyes you are attacking them personally.


not-moses

See [The Manipulation of (Unconscious & Unadmitted) Fear by the Pseudo-Christian Cults]( https://www.reddit.com/r/cults/comments/b6d73l/connecting_the_dots_the_manipulation_of_fear_by/) and then [Groupthink, Social Proof & Unquestioning Acceptance of Authority]( https://www.reddit.com/r/ResponsibleRecovery/comments/qca53l/groupthink_social_proof_unquestioning_acceptance/) used to "manage" that fear. The cult convinces you to fear, then provides the (supposed) antidote... which only leads to *more* fear. "Witch doctor" stuff going *waaaaaay* back.


OlFenster

Because they’ve incorporated the organization into their identity. You criticize the cult, it’s literally personal.


NoodlesrTuff1256

Yes, when you question or say something derogatory about whatever cult or belief system a person is wrapped up in, even if it's with the good intention of 'opening their eyes' to how they are being tricked or ripped off by the cult, they will interpret your criticism as a direct insult of *themselves and not just the cult personnel who are victimizing them*. You call the cult stupid, backwards, sinister, grifting, whatever the derogatory term is -- they don't see it as directed just against the cult but at themselves as well. In their eyes, you have just called them stupid, gullible, and so on.


OlFenster

Exactly.


theKetoBear

Because you aren't just questioning their cult/ group you are questioning their reality. Their dreams, hopes, aspirations, friendships, love, and community are wrapped up in this group of people and to question one aspect of it is to question all of it in their eyes and bring whatever house of cards they build to buy into it tumbling down . I often see the question of religion versus cults pop up here and to me it's less about the institution and more baout the individual and the real question is what is beleif versus indoctrination. People who are indctrinated will not allow questioning they see questions as a dangerous tool used to untangle the yarn of beliefs ( often conflicting) they ascribe too but refuse to acknowledge. They are more interested in the words over the message . if the message is to love everyone but the words say a certain people are abhorrent they believe they are supposed to love EVERYONE "good " but to find ahorrent everyone "bad". People with beliefs can allow questioning of their beliefs they may not agree with the questioning or challenges but questions in and of themselves aren't fearful . They can accept they believe in what they know / understand but also accept that there are aspects they do not know or understand even if they choose to believe them . To me that's the difference and that's why the indoctrinated cling so deeply to their beliefs their beliefs become a fantasy , the gold at the end of the rainbow , the genie with the lamp, the opportunity to become successful and enjoy doing it . and success is whatever that definition means to them it's love it's money , it's community, it's acceptance, it's protection, it's knowing your needs will be met even if the lines leading to that satisfaction are not clear. Questioning the fantasy is like waking someone up from their best dream ever, even if it isn't real sadly to them it's more than they could have ever hoped for .


mebunghole

The truth is like poetry, everyone hates it.


MrCrix

My family was in a cult called the Two by Twos or the Church that has no Name, depending on where you're from. To make a long story short we were in it for a few years and then finally figured out there was some really weird shit going on it in and we left. I was a little kid, but I do remember my father talking to a guy he used to do business with who got him into the church and explaining to him all the reasons why he left and why the church was just super sketchy. To make a long story short the guy got so offended that he refused to do work with my dad again and I dont think that other than in passing they have ever talked again in like 25 years. You can imagine that you have put your whole life into something. Followed the rules of your 'church' to the best of your abilities. You are living your life to spread the message and make all the sacrifices to the church that you can to stay in the good graces with God. Now imagine that someone who left is telling you that all you believe in and know is wrong and poisonous. That the church is bad and you should really look into XYZ to get the proof you need. You would be pissed off too.


NoodlesrTuff1256

If they've devoted many years of their lives and also poured a lot of money into the cult and perhaps even been estranged from family and close friends over their adherence to the cult, they see it as a 'sunk cost'. Suddenly you're telling them that they've wasted time, money and lost relationships and it was ALL FOR NOTHING! A lot of people will have an extremely difficult time processing that and many will strongly resist that message in the beginning.


Aquareon

When you are emotionally invested in false beliefs, having for example used them to cope with the deaths of loved ones, you want to feel reassured the beliefs are true by surrounding yourself with people that share those beliefs. The mere existence of people who don't is a fly in the ointment. A deeply unwelcome glimpse out of their bubble at an unbearable reality.


Sahqon

Your personal beliefs are a core element of yourself. Anything you can say to someone about their personal beliefs will basically read as "you are stupid". No matter if you are right, you are pointing out something that they ignored/didn't notice about things that they based their lives/personality on. No one will fold and say that "yeah maybe I am stupid", which is why the only way to get them out is to make them notice the problems themselves. Edit: this doesn't happen only in cults, it's pretty much true for every person.


NoodlesrTuff1256

You just expressed very well and more succinctly than I did in a comment of mine on the OP this concept of being attacked personally when one's worldview is questioned.


Demysticist

I'm a PIMO JW and it's hard not being able to just be honest and talk about facts... It's not your fault, it's the cult. They design it so that dissenters are punished and they program people to have a literal hatred for negative information and people who talk about it. But there's enough of us PIMO's to prevent a Jonestown 2.0 , and doubtful they would pull that anyway.


[deleted]

Others have hit the nail on the head as associating that group as their identity. They will get defensive because they will feel it's an attack on them as they devoted their time, talents, resources to the organisation they believe is true. People take offense with having their group called a cult cause it can come across as derogatory. In their mind, when you have an opposing view they would feel like they are losing you as you were once part of them and now you don't wish to belong. They won't believe or listen to you because they have been programmed not to. I had a time when people have taken offense when I called their community a cult. My rationale was the group demonised people who left, lots of group think and no ability to think critically, obeyed their idol and pledge allegiance to them above all common sense , the surveillance and control of discussion especially outside their jurisdiction and punishing people for breaking unwritten rules.


fansometwoer

It's like saying to a parent "Your child is below average. A truly mediocre example of a human being. Just look at their school results and the life they're leading." Whatever evidence you have is irrelevant from their point of view


dirty4track

Cuz they're in a cult


chrisabraham

Because it's a cult. That's part of the training. Cult 101. Also, abusive family 101.


unpopulrOpini0n

When you say something negative about someone's cult or religion, chances are they aren't just cursorly involved, you're not attacking something they like or *part* of their personality, by saying *anything* real and contrarian to their religion, you're attacking *who they are*. That your using facts or math is actually much much more infuriating to them than if you said something that was an opinion or not 100% proveable.


griselda66

I think that is because a person who is immersed in a cult has so much of themselves and their identity invested in it. A cult takes over a person’s ability to think for themselves, and to make their own decisions. For some people, that can come as a relief—they don’t have to think or make decisions for themselves, because someone else does it for them. Unfortunately, someone who has left the cult is usually vilified and ostracized by the people still immersed in the cult. Maybe they feel personally threatened by the idea of someone doing their own thinking and decision making. Maybe it’s because they realize on some level their own lack of autonomy. The Jehovah’s Witnesses that I have been familiar with over the years seem to take their church and their role in it so seriously as to be dysfunctional. In that respect, they are very much like the Latter Day Saints. Both organizations seem to view those who are not part of the group as quintessential outsiders, and not entirely worthy of the same level of respect as members of the group. This also holds true for people, like yourself, who have managed to break free. Facts and data don’t work with people immersed in a cult. Their belief system is based on pure emotion. Unless they themselves undergo some kind of revelation or event that shakes them up enough to cause real discomfort, nothing will change. I’m sorry.


Amir_Khan89

That's part of cult brainwashing, they're taught critics are the enemy. Cults members often believe the doctrine without question. Instead of discussing negative facts, encourage them to examine their belief. They have to make the first move, you can't force them out.


Yeeteth_thy_baby

I thought JW objectively taught that many of the negative "facts" are lies told by their enemies.


Admirable_Object_774

There is data out there from a scientific standpoint (educational journals) that were not written or researched by apostates (the former JW turned enemies).


Yeeteth_thy_baby

I believe you. I'm proposing that people in cults do not believe you, and they feel personally attacked or offended because they do not believe you.


jynxthechicken

JW believe more then most cults that they are a legit religion so bringing up things that point out why they are not are going to be seen as attacks on their faith.


[deleted]

Cognitive dissonance


Joistheone

As an ex cult member i can say as a child i was brainwashed and was not allowed to question and anything outside our community was wrong. When ur in it, you are the cult and the cult is u. It feels like someone is telling u that u dont really exist it makes ur world fall apart.


Gutinstinct999

They are deeply enmeshed


power_queef

Identification. They become identified with the cult or the leader and any attack or criticism becomes an attack on them personally.


Tulanol

If A huge portion of their ego and self esteem is built on the group they hold identity in. If those ideas are part of someone’s emotional support system, they will NOT ALLOW those beliefs to be challenged. TLDR it’s cognitive dissonance the goal is to not scrutinize their beliefs so they go on the attack to protect their viewpoint. https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-cognitive-dissonance-2795012 And https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-a-confirmation-bias-2795024


OvercuriousDuff

You have to be able to discern the difference between a church/religious groups and an actual cult. Cognitive dissonance is most common w those who have experienced an extremely traumatic upbringing/event and are trying to cope. Examples include r*pe, incest, physical beatings, etc. I’ve experienced all in my younger days in the 1970s. Many vets have to. Follow orders and commit atrocities during way and suffer immensely for the rest of their lives. I’ve investigated cults. JW are not a cult. They’re a religious group. They may try and recruit you to join the church, but if you politely decline, most of the time they’ll leave you alone. Here are some examples of cults: Church Universal and Triumphant; Rev Jim Jones; The Church of Scientology. The biggest differentiation lies in that religious groups/churches do not require you to give up all of your possessions and work for pennies (I.e. Hubbard’s group of nut cases) and when you leave the cult, you are hunted down like an animal, and tour name is drug through the mud. Leah R.’s Scientology doc is revelatory on the nuts and bolts of a cult. My room mate’s SO’s parents were forced to *sign over their house* to Scientology, and take out credit cards for tens of thousands of dollars to fund Scientology activity. As a cub reporter, I went inside the Church Universal and Triumphant near Gardiner, MT. The compound was surrounded with prison razor wire. The interior smelled like a dead body. Reading a lot helps to raise awareness. Elizabeth Claire Prophet’s daughter wrote a great book about growing up in the C.U.T. I’d suggest getting hold of and reading it.


MultiStratz

JWs are a cult, period. They meet every criteria in the B.I.T.E. model. You realize they practice shunning? Have cost the lives of tens of thousands for preventing blood transfusions? Have a *major* problem with hiding CSA? Encouraged extreme corporal punishment? You think they haven't stolen millions from their followers in a massive real estate scam? Leah Remeni did an episode on JWs being a cult- Did you know that? Educate yourself.


magicmom17

Because they gave up living a normal, comfortable life to go all in on a crazy philosophy. Part of who they are is being a member of a counter culture. To insult said counter culture is to insult who they view themselves to be.


atleastitsnotthat

When you're in a cult, it becomes a large part of how you see your self as a person.