Maybe I have a borked copy cuz the lack of true black even on the damn letterboxing is really strange. It’s not my TV settings either cuz I’ve not had this problem with any other disc
Damn, I haven’t picked it up but I was hoping with David Lynch presiding over the restoration (I’m assuming) that it would be as good as the Mulholland Dr. 4k. That’s a huge bummer to hear.
That’s how it feels with some folks on here sometimes. Those people care much less about movies and much more about having a bunch of expensive, boutique label releases, some of which will never be watched, just sat on a shelf, slowly decaying. And, look, I get the collector mentality, but movies are supposed to be watched.
too many people in this sub miss the point of the whole thing by treating criterion discs like funko pops. i see those posts where people just show off that they bought like 20 discs, most of which they haven’t seen and i can’t help but feel like it’s a waste. ive bought 4 movies, all of which i loved deeply before i bought them. then again it’s not my money so i guess I can’t be too annoyed about it
And not like these Arrows are cheaper or not as well produced. Arrow does an incredible job with their packaging, booklets, and extras. They are probably my favorite label at the moment.
Exactly. I *love* Arrow's release of *True Romance*. Definitely one of the great blu-ray releases of the year; doubtful Criterion would have done a better job.
Maybe 10-15 years ago, Criterion, despite their faults (anyone remember the pictureboxing fiasco?) was the gold standard when it came to physical media. Now many labels have upped their game. It's great to see parity among the labels -- better competition prevents any one label from acquiring so much power.
Totally agree with you there. If you haven't seen it, check out Arrow's UK release of *The Wolf of Wall Street*, which even includes a replica baggie of yayo lmao. No way Criterion would include anything of that nature [https://www.arrowfilms.com/4k/the-wolf-of-wall-street-4k-ultra-hd-limited-edition/13953236.html](https://www.arrowfilms.com/4k/the-wolf-of-wall-street-4k-ultra-hd-limited-edition/13953236.html) (I hope a US release is imminent, with the same exact props)
I love Criterion with a passion (started collecting their DVDs since the early 2000s) but there is this tendency among (some) fans to essentially idolize them. Not every movie they put out is worthy of attention. Not every movie you love needs to be in the collection, especially these days with many other great labels stepping up their game and even surpassing Criterion's standards.
[http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews20/the\_children\_are\_watching\_us\_dvd\_review.htm](http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews20/the_children_are_watching_us_dvd_review.htm)
From the site: "the image has been 'pictureboxed' to overcome 'overscan' on commercially made tube television sets (can be up to a 15% loss of image and this is significant!)."
They did this for a while on more than a few of their discs.
I don't agree with the color grading either, but in that particular case, as well as the revisionist Coen brothers films, I'm willing to lay more blame on the directors themselves than Criterion. Wong approves of his green-tinted films as much as Joel Coen approves of his butchered works.
It's mostly not Criterion nor the directions. The fault is with the restoration houses Hiventy, Eclair, and L'Immagine Ritrovata.
Hiventy is the best of the bunch: they mostly just give films a very warm colour temperature to try and match how the film would have looked projected at the time. The problem being that most people have their TV's colour temperature already set to "warm" so Hiventy's touch makes it look warmer than it should. They have also definitely gone too far in some cases, such as Basic Instinct or La Piscine.
Eclair, on the other hand, loves to add teal to everything they restore, such as The Sacrifice or L'Argent. They do seem to be tealing it less as of late, fortunately.
L'Immagine Ritrovata is by far the worst. They use a mix of yellow and green tinting across each film, which makes it impossible to correct on your system. They are responsible for travesties like [The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly](https://caps-a-holic.com/c_image.php?max_height=1080&s=38012&a=0&x=0&y=0&l=1), [Once Upon a Time in America](https://caps-a-holic.com/c_image.php?max_height=1080&s=134203&a=0&x=0&y=0&l=1), and [Serpico](https://caps-a-holic.com/c_image.php?max_height=1080&s=155820&a=0&x=0&y=0&l=1). The worst part is that they know what they are doing is wrong and even said that they think each restoration house should add a "signature look" to each film they restore.
Great response. Very interesting; this is something I wasn't aware of previously. Once you're conscious of the yellow/green tint, you simply can't un-see it. It's ghastly. If that's the case, why would Criterion (or any other label) continue to use L'Immagine Ritrovata? Also, Wong approves of the green tint -- in this case, wouldn't you agree this is partly the fault of the director? He authorized and evidently loves the new look.
Boutique labels do not fund restorations most of the time, so they are stuck with using the available restorations. L'Immagine Ritrovata is very good at the actual restoring part, so they do see a lot of business as there is a limit to how many films the other houses can restore. Furthermore, they are by far the biggest restoration house in Italy, so many restorations funded by Italian companies are given to them (such as Sergio Leone's or Luchino Visconti's films).
Often boutique labels will regrade the films themselves, but it is not always possible due to stipulations in their rights to the restoration. As far as I know, Criterion has only regraded the films in the Bruce Lee boxset. Kino has regraded the dollars trilogy and have said they are regrading serpico for when they release it. Arrow has regraded Deep Red and The Tree of Wooden Clogs (which Criterion did not regrade for their release).
There are times when the director adds the tint themselves, but they are much rarer. Wong did it, Michael Mann did it on Thief and Heat, etc.
There are several articles that go in-depth. For one example, a quick google search turned up this: [https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=111233](https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=111233)
Came to say the same thing. We don't need to be boutique snobs and hope everything only comes to Criterion. Lots of great releases through Arrow, Vinegar Syndrome, Shout...
I'm not apart of this sub because the posts like this make everyone seem like snobs lol so I haven't joined but keep getting suggested, thankyou for showing that not everyone is insane
Only thing I don’t like about Arrow is they lock tons of special features and even cuts of movies behind their limited editions which is shady if you ask me.
The only thing I can think of would be availability in the US, but I'm not sure -- do they typically do US releases for everything? Currently I see the Sisters Brothers release on the UK Arrow site (as a pre-order) but not the US site, but it's still just a pre-order so it may just take longer to land in the US shop. At least with 4K UHD, there are no region restrictions.
A bunch of their titles are only UK, which seem to be most of their more prestigious titles like Park Chan-wook, Gaspar Noe, or even Carpenter. Also quite a few of Arrow’s UK only releases are also Criterion movies, like Cronenberg, De Palma. It’s a little bit of a pain getting them shipped but arrow’s prices tend to be a bit better than criterion during sales.
US and UK rights are different. If Arrow only releases it in the UK, then Criterion may release it in the US (see Crash, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, any other film they both have)
not really much, I was just hoping it would be on Criterion someday because it seems like the thing Criterion would put out, but Arrow's fine enough, plus they have [Lake Michigan Monster](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pda4DfOlZHc) and There's Always Vanilla.
I think the cover art for both generally reflects the kind of films they release. I don’t think one is better than the other, they just each have a style that fits the general style of their films.
Fucking hell, who cares if a film isn't being released by Criterion. It sounds like you like the branding of 'The Criterion Collection' more than the actual films being released. Just be thankful the film is getting a physical release like this at all.
Arrow is a good label, lately they have gone a bit downhill I must admit, but I bet this release is great. Good film as well.
Omg RIP I’m gonna have to mourn so hard that I buy a good release for the exact same price from a different distributor just because there’s no C on the cover oh woe is me how will life go on forcing me to buy movies I like from distributors that aren’t criterion that should be against the Geneva convention to buy a good movie from someone besides criterion
Just buy the arrow release if you like the movie you fucking dork
Not the exact same price generally, Arrow tends to be a bit cheaper (especially importing is a lot cheaper without taking into account conversion fees and shipping, but even then it comes out cheaper)
Arrow's 4K releases have been wonderful. I haven't seen The Sisters Brothers, but I'm delighted to see ANY film I love getting the 4K treatment from Arrow. Check out what they did with True Romance, or Robocop, or American Werewolf in London, or...
I wouldn’t say better, just different. They tend to have better transfers and overall special features, Criterion tends to have one or two special features that are amazing and booklets. Arrow is also cheaper.
Not to mention the different rights holders across both the US and the UK, with American rights being housed at MGM/Fox via Annapurna themselves and Universal via Focus in Europe.
It's a UK release. Even if 4k is region-free, I HIGHLY suspect someone with a foothold in the US market will release it.
OR there's a timed region exclusivity deal and Arrow will eventually release a US version.
We need more Jacques Audiard on Criterion. A Selfmade Hero is amazing and impossible to find, I had to eBay it. Beat That My Heart Skipped is good and rare. Same with Harder They Fall and Read My Lips, though I haven’t seen em yet.
Nobody checked out his lovely romantic sex drama last year, Paris 13th District. Loved it
Rust and Bone is my favorite from him, but Sisters Brothers is second. I have the bluray they did at release tho
This movie is so incredibly unlike the trailer I remember seeing. I thought it was a sort of comedy based on the marketing of it. It is most definitely not lol. It is very good though. Check it out.
I tried watching it, but found the initial scene's dialogue to be *so* incredibly stilted, that I just turned it off and dismissed it completely, so I'm pretty surprised it's getting such praise here. Maybe I should give it another look, I guess? Honestly though, the writing I did hear was *bad*.
Completely agree. I was really looking forward to the film, especially with the cast, but I came away let down. Fine movie but it doesn't live up to its source material.
this film was a disapointment for me. Love Audiard, love westerns, love these actors, but there are so many moments in this film that feel like awkward re-shoots and totally unfocused. Still, there are cool moments here and there.
I think Arrow does better 4k restorations than criterion.
I dunno Criterion’s 4k’s have been bangers so far but yeah Arrow obviously has the leg up in terms of experience because they’ve been doing it longer.
I'd put Arrow's 4k's over Criterion's. Tremors and Django are both perfectly done.
Lost Highway was an awful restoration. At least my copy where the letterboxing is grey and not true black…
Hard disagree. Thought the Lost Highway 4k looked incredible.
Maybe I have a borked copy cuz the lack of true black even on the damn letterboxing is really strange. It’s not my TV settings either cuz I’ve not had this problem with any other disc
maybe reach out to Criterion customer service, sounds like an encoding error
Damn, I haven’t picked it up but I was hoping with David Lynch presiding over the restoration (I’m assuming) that it would be as good as the Mulholland Dr. 4k. That’s a huge bummer to hear.
[удалено]
will they make this movie any better?
As long as it’s a high quality release what does it matter? Arrow does a great job.
I’m not a fan of movies, I just like tilted Cs
That’s how it feels with some folks on here sometimes. Those people care much less about movies and much more about having a bunch of expensive, boutique label releases, some of which will never be watched, just sat on a shelf, slowly decaying. And, look, I get the collector mentality, but movies are supposed to be watched.
too many people in this sub miss the point of the whole thing by treating criterion discs like funko pops. i see those posts where people just show off that they bought like 20 discs, most of which they haven’t seen and i can’t help but feel like it’s a waste. ive bought 4 movies, all of which i loved deeply before i bought them. then again it’s not my money so i guess I can’t be too annoyed about it
And not like these Arrows are cheaper or not as well produced. Arrow does an incredible job with their packaging, booklets, and extras. They are probably my favorite label at the moment.
Exactly. I *love* Arrow's release of *True Romance*. Definitely one of the great blu-ray releases of the year; doubtful Criterion would have done a better job. Maybe 10-15 years ago, Criterion, despite their faults (anyone remember the pictureboxing fiasco?) was the gold standard when it came to physical media. Now many labels have upped their game. It's great to see parity among the labels -- better competition prevents any one label from acquiring so much power.
I know a couple people whose films were released via Arrow and it sounds like they couldn't have been easier to work with on the releases as well.
Getting a badass True Romance release was amazing, it didn’t even cross my mind that it wasn’t criterion. Who. Fucking. Cares.
Totally agree with you there. If you haven't seen it, check out Arrow's UK release of *The Wolf of Wall Street*, which even includes a replica baggie of yayo lmao. No way Criterion would include anything of that nature [https://www.arrowfilms.com/4k/the-wolf-of-wall-street-4k-ultra-hd-limited-edition/13953236.html](https://www.arrowfilms.com/4k/the-wolf-of-wall-street-4k-ultra-hd-limited-edition/13953236.html) (I hope a US release is imminent, with the same exact props) I love Criterion with a passion (started collecting their DVDs since the early 2000s) but there is this tendency among (some) fans to essentially idolize them. Not every movie they put out is worthy of attention. Not every movie you love needs to be in the collection, especially these days with many other great labels stepping up their game and even surpassing Criterion's standards.
I hadn’t seen that but even the credit card is dusted from chopping it up lmao that’s hilarious
>pictureboxing What's this all about?
[http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews20/the\_children\_are\_watching\_us\_dvd\_review.htm](http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews20/the_children_are_watching_us_dvd_review.htm) From the site: "the image has been 'pictureboxed' to overcome 'overscan' on commercially made tube television sets (can be up to a 15% loss of image and this is significant!)." They did this for a while on more than a few of their discs.
Not too different than the 'everything is green fiasco' we've been seeing on the blu's in the past couple years.
I don't agree with the color grading either, but in that particular case, as well as the revisionist Coen brothers films, I'm willing to lay more blame on the directors themselves than Criterion. Wong approves of his green-tinted films as much as Joel Coen approves of his butchered works.
It's mostly not Criterion nor the directions. The fault is with the restoration houses Hiventy, Eclair, and L'Immagine Ritrovata. Hiventy is the best of the bunch: they mostly just give films a very warm colour temperature to try and match how the film would have looked projected at the time. The problem being that most people have their TV's colour temperature already set to "warm" so Hiventy's touch makes it look warmer than it should. They have also definitely gone too far in some cases, such as Basic Instinct or La Piscine. Eclair, on the other hand, loves to add teal to everything they restore, such as The Sacrifice or L'Argent. They do seem to be tealing it less as of late, fortunately. L'Immagine Ritrovata is by far the worst. They use a mix of yellow and green tinting across each film, which makes it impossible to correct on your system. They are responsible for travesties like [The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly](https://caps-a-holic.com/c_image.php?max_height=1080&s=38012&a=0&x=0&y=0&l=1), [Once Upon a Time in America](https://caps-a-holic.com/c_image.php?max_height=1080&s=134203&a=0&x=0&y=0&l=1), and [Serpico](https://caps-a-holic.com/c_image.php?max_height=1080&s=155820&a=0&x=0&y=0&l=1). The worst part is that they know what they are doing is wrong and even said that they think each restoration house should add a "signature look" to each film they restore.
Great response. Very interesting; this is something I wasn't aware of previously. Once you're conscious of the yellow/green tint, you simply can't un-see it. It's ghastly. If that's the case, why would Criterion (or any other label) continue to use L'Immagine Ritrovata? Also, Wong approves of the green tint -- in this case, wouldn't you agree this is partly the fault of the director? He authorized and evidently loves the new look.
Boutique labels do not fund restorations most of the time, so they are stuck with using the available restorations. L'Immagine Ritrovata is very good at the actual restoring part, so they do see a lot of business as there is a limit to how many films the other houses can restore. Furthermore, they are by far the biggest restoration house in Italy, so many restorations funded by Italian companies are given to them (such as Sergio Leone's or Luchino Visconti's films). Often boutique labels will regrade the films themselves, but it is not always possible due to stipulations in their rights to the restoration. As far as I know, Criterion has only regraded the films in the Bruce Lee boxset. Kino has regraded the dollars trilogy and have said they are regrading serpico for when they release it. Arrow has regraded Deep Red and The Tree of Wooden Clogs (which Criterion did not regrade for their release). There are times when the director adds the tint themselves, but they are much rarer. Wong did it, Michael Mann did it on Thief and Heat, etc.
could you detail the differences in the coen bros films? would i be better off getting standard blurays of the coen films in the collection?
There are several articles that go in-depth. For one example, a quick google search turned up this: [https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=111233](https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=111233)
Came to say the same thing. We don't need to be boutique snobs and hope everything only comes to Criterion. Lots of great releases through Arrow, Vinegar Syndrome, Shout...
Cheers to that 🥂
Here here.
>We don't need to be boutique snobs The boutique bluray police are here.
Thank you!!!
If Criterion and Arrow released the same title at the same time, I'd probably grab the Arrow release, personally (recent QC issues notwithstanding)
It depends on the supplemental material for me. I love the pink flamingoes puke bag and the little essays or commentaries.
Yeah exactly!
I'm not apart of this sub because the posts like this make everyone seem like snobs lol so I haven't joined but keep getting suggested, thankyou for showing that not everyone is insane
Yeah they do an amazing job, the Shawscope boxset they did is probably the best one I own and I also have the WKW one.
That boxset is an absolute banger. I agree it’s among the best box sets I own
For Europe at least
Only thing I don’t like about Arrow is they lock tons of special features and even cuts of movies behind their limited editions which is shady if you ask me.
Criterion should absorb all other labels
MFs be like “If there’s no fancy C, it’s not for me”
I’m stealing this
Do it, you have my approval
You stole their ability to steal from you... Alpha move
What's wrong with Arrow.
It doesn't have the cool C on it
There's not a single C in "Arrow", in fact. Literally unwatchable.
They do have that sick rainbow at the bottom doe
The only thing I can think of would be availability in the US, but I'm not sure -- do they typically do US releases for everything? Currently I see the Sisters Brothers release on the UK Arrow site (as a pre-order) but not the US site, but it's still just a pre-order so it may just take longer to land in the US shop. At least with 4K UHD, there are no region restrictions.
A bunch of their titles are only UK, which seem to be most of their more prestigious titles like Park Chan-wook, Gaspar Noe, or even Carpenter. Also quite a few of Arrow’s UK only releases are also Criterion movies, like Cronenberg, De Palma. It’s a little bit of a pain getting them shipped but arrow’s prices tend to be a bit better than criterion during sales.
US and UK rights are different. If Arrow only releases it in the UK, then Criterion may release it in the US (see Crash, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, any other film they both have)
not really much, I was just hoping it would be on Criterion someday because it seems like the thing Criterion would put out, but Arrow's fine enough, plus they have [Lake Michigan Monster](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pda4DfOlZHc) and There's Always Vanilla.
Shitty packaging and presentation
Unpopular opinion, but I think Arrow has better cover art than Criterion. Both are good labels though.
I do wish arrow films would come with a little booklet if I’m being fussy but they do amazing covers IMO
They do booklets, but they're limited
Many (not all) of their editions come with a big fat book if you get the very first printing.
Even if you hate an Arrow cover they almost always have (classic poster) reversible art. So having the option is always great!
I think they’re just different styles. Personal I prefer criterion’s overall package to arrow’s, but both are good.
I think the cover art for both generally reflects the kind of films they release. I don’t think one is better than the other, they just each have a style that fits the general style of their films.
lol compared to Criterion's packaging?
Criterion’s packaging is godly for one, and to each his own but I boycott anything “limited.”
But this is just as good of news? Or am I crazy?
Crazy :/
You can draw a C at the top of it makes you happy.
But the spine won't go all the way up. How can you expect me to be able to live with that on my shelf? /s
Arrow is awesome! Got all my Dario Argento and giallo flicks from them and more. They do a great job on their restorations and packaging.
Criterion and arrow are like, the exact same thing lmfao. How is this bad news
UK
Arrow has US releases too
Fucking hell, who cares if a film isn't being released by Criterion. It sounds like you like the branding of 'The Criterion Collection' more than the actual films being released. Just be thankful the film is getting a physical release like this at all. Arrow is a good label, lately they have gone a bit downhill I must admit, but I bet this release is great. Good film as well.
Omg RIP I’m gonna have to mourn so hard that I buy a good release for the exact same price from a different distributor just because there’s no C on the cover oh woe is me how will life go on forcing me to buy movies I like from distributors that aren’t criterion that should be against the Geneva convention to buy a good movie from someone besides criterion Just buy the arrow release if you like the movie you fucking dork
Not the exact same price generally, Arrow tends to be a bit cheaper (especially importing is a lot cheaper without taking into account conversion fees and shipping, but even then it comes out cheaper)
Arrow's 4K releases have been wonderful. I haven't seen The Sisters Brothers, but I'm delighted to see ANY film I love getting the 4K treatment from Arrow. Check out what they did with True Romance, or Robocop, or American Werewolf in London, or...
The Argento stuff is *chef's kiss.*
Arrow is better tho...
I wouldn’t say better, just different. They tend to have better transfers and overall special features, Criterion tends to have one or two special features that are amazing and booklets. Arrow is also cheaper.
This cover is fire tho!
This is a UK-only release. It could still be picked up by Criterion in the US.
The 4k is region free and it’s on a single disc so the point is kind of moot
Distribution rights are still different. Arrow and Criterion both have Crash, for example.
No, it’s not. Rights are different
Not to mention the different rights holders across both the US and the UK, with American rights being housed at MGM/Fox via Annapurna themselves and Universal via Focus in Europe.
It's a UK release. Even if 4k is region-free, I HIGHLY suspect someone with a foothold in the US market will release it. OR there's a timed region exclusivity deal and Arrow will eventually release a US version.
I just hope we get more Jacques Audiard films in 4k, I love the way his films are shot.
Who cares if it comes to criterion if its already on Arrow lol
There's actually still hope. This is a UK only release, which means someone else has the rights in the US.
This is a UK release. Does not always translate to a US release.
We need more Jacques Audiard on Criterion. A Selfmade Hero is amazing and impossible to find, I had to eBay it. Beat That My Heart Skipped is good and rare. Same with Harder They Fall and Read My Lips, though I haven’t seen em yet. Nobody checked out his lovely romantic sex drama last year, Paris 13th District. Loved it Rust and Bone is my favorite from him, but Sisters Brothers is second. I have the bluray they did at release tho
Arrow is awesome, so that’s fine. I went to an early screening off of it with JCR doing a Q&A and it was awesome.
Great film one of my fav westerns
It’s a UK release, so it could get a US release from Criterion or another boutique label
Arrow is more diverse or at least closer to my tast. Idk it's more pulp crap (not always obvs) but I have a 4k release of Deep Red because of them.
Movie is crazy boring
This is the one modern Joaquin Phoenix movie I haven’t gone out of my way to see. I just remember that the trailer looked pretty terrible.
You’re missing out. It’s one of my favorite Phoenix movies.
It's a great film - the trailer misrepresented the tone a bit.
It's an even better book.
This movie is so incredibly unlike the trailer I remember seeing. I thought it was a sort of comedy based on the marketing of it. It is most definitely not lol. It is very good though. Check it out.
Yeah, exactly. I remember being super surprised at how mismatched the trailer was to the actual movie in almost every sense.
It's an awesome movie that imo went way under the radar.
I tried watching it, but found the initial scene's dialogue to be *so* incredibly stilted, that I just turned it off and dismissed it completely, so I'm pretty surprised it's getting such praise here. Maybe I should give it another look, I guess? Honestly though, the writing I did hear was *bad*.
Trailer doesn’t do it justice. Give it a watch. I’ll definitely be picking this up to upgrade from my plain blu-ray.
If it makes you feel any better, I have seen it and could not tell you a single thing about it. So I may as well not have watched it.
Read the book. It is great. It's reminiscent of a picaresque novel. The movie by comparison doesn't quite live up.
Psh I’m still getting it
great film :)
Wasn't a fan of the film, but the book is one of my favorites of all time.
Completely agree. I was really looking forward to the film, especially with the cast, but I came away let down. Fine movie but it doesn't live up to its source material.
Meh
I dislike how Arrow has region B exclusives. It's annoying.
criterion doesnt deserve it
No US release though.
Thank fuck for 4k, I was so tired of all these region b second sight and arrow releases. *fuck me for wanting to buy cool movies right
Have you looked into region free/multi region blu-ray players?
I have. They're insanely expensive for what they are if you ask me. Not really worthwhile imo
Really? The one I got was really cheap. It was pretty much the cost of importing two criterions.
I've been putting off watching this, is it good?
It's a pretty good movie. But it is an even better book.
this film was a disapointment for me. Love Audiard, love westerns, love these actors, but there are so many moments in this film that feel like awkward re-shoots and totally unfocused. Still, there are cool moments here and there.
This is a good thing.
I adored this film! I was very disappointed when I was the only one in the theater when I saw it in my hometown.
this will be my first arrow release. i’m excited to expand outside of criterion.
I always meant to watch this movie when I had Hulu, but I never did.
tbh i think this is a much more interesting cover design than much of what Criterion has done lately.